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View Full Version : Anyone else not a "fan" of the Taig Motor?



CROSSHATCH
04-24-2008, 10:56 AM
I don't know what it is. I have the upgraded Taig Motor and for some reason it bothers me. It works great, it's powerful and no complaints over here about that. I feel the motor being mounted the way it is... puts so much strain on the column! (nuts) It's a pretty heavy motor, if it was centered, I could understand, but being mounted like that makes me eerie, am I the only one that feels that way?? lol. I plan on upgrading too a variable speed motor in the Summer and one that can be controlled by my BOB board.

Whats everyone thought on the positioning, and is it anything too really worry about.


I just like taking care of my tools and machines.


-Jason

CROSSHATCH
04-24-2008, 11:10 AM
And I was actually looking at this motor: http://www.surpluscenter.com/sort.asp?UID=2008042410035327&catname=electric&keyword=MBDD

SPECIFICATIONS

* HP 2-1/2 at 130 VDC int. ( I like that!)
* 1-1/2 at 95 VDC cont.
* 95-130 VDC
* 18.5 Amps
* 0-6750 RPM
* Rotation reversible



* Enclosure open
* Ball bearings
* Duty int. w/o cooling fan (not incl.)
* Mount 4 hole base 4-1/4" x 2 3/4"
* Shaft 17 mm w/threaded end 1/2"-13 UNC LH thread
* Size 7-3/4" x 4" x 4" excluding face plate
* Shpg. 10 l

Stepper Monkey
04-24-2008, 12:02 PM
I also find the Taig motor placement to be problematic, but very little can be done about it without really changing some things around or going to a different spindle entirely. The motor cantilevers way too far out and is not centered, so it is putting some undue loads on the carriage that I really don't like. Easiest way to solve it is to use a lighter motor, which isn't a problem as the stock motor is WAY heavier than it needs to be.

I have ordered the the Surplus center motor you listed as a possible Taig replacement, but I went with this one instead for the Taig; http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2008042410035327&catname=electric&qty=1&item=10-2326

It is "only" rated at 3/4 HP, but looks more sturdily built and has nicer bearings. It also has a matching 8 amp speed controller available in the same catalog for about $30, both being meant for a treadmill originally. It is nearly the exact same weight as the stock Taig motor and has a hell of a lot more power. (It says it weighs more than the 2 1/2 HP motor, but no worries, that is only because it has a whopping huge cast iron flywheel included you have to yank off before mounting the pulley.)
The 2 1/2 HP is just overkill for a Taig, the extra weight makes the problem with the motor positioning even worse, and the controller for it is much more expensive. I'd go with the lighter one.
Otherwise, look at 1/2 HP options in the brushless thread going on - it is still a lot more power, and not half the weight of the stock motor. Very good for rapid Z travel and tighter clamping.

JustSomeGuy
04-24-2008, 03:03 PM
SPECIFICATIONS

* HP 2-1/2 at 130 VDC int. ( I like that!)

2.5 hp on a Taig. :eek:
I don't have a Taig but wouldn't that be like putting a 7 litre turbo diesel engine into a Honda Civic???

CROSSHATCH
04-24-2008, 03:11 PM
I didn't even notice the motor I was looking at was heavier than the stock, Oops. 2.5 HP is overkill I know, but pretty cool :) HA. In all seriousness, I like the motor you posted. I have the 1/4th CNC motor, and damn....3/4ths power is a lot more, that is good!

I don't want too use Brushless motor, although it may be good, Fast rapids is the last thing I need.


I do like the motor you posted and will probably buy it shortly. It weighs more than my motor right? I didn't get a chance too weigh my motor, but I know it's heavy (I had too lug it around when moving stuff in the shop)


Post back:)


-Jason

JustSomeGuy
04-24-2008, 03:42 PM
I didn't even notice the motor I was looking at was heavier than the stock, Oops. 2.5 HP is overkill I know, but pretty cool :) HA.

That would be very cool to see :wave:

I was not thinking about the actual weight of the motor but rather, the torque that would be applied to the tiny column if the belt were able to handle that...

CROSSHATCH
04-24-2008, 04:06 PM
Too what you were saying, I was not even thinking about the torque but rather that is gave over 6,000 RPM which is in the limits of the Taig.

I won't be going with that motor.


-Jason

Stepper Monkey
04-24-2008, 08:24 PM
I just went down and weighed a stock Taig motor against the 3/4HP I pulled from my mill, and the Surplus center motor is actually slightly lighter. Not a big difference in weight, but it is a bit lighter and slimmer and so retrofits very nicely in the same place. Same general speed range too.

You will have to ream/bore out your stock pulley to 17mm to fit the shaft, but that is pretty easy. Just don't bore much past the setscrew and go boring all the way through or you will take off the sixth (smallest) step! You'll see what I mean when you go to do it. It's cake though.

CROSSHATCH
04-24-2008, 08:54 PM
Stepper, lighter is better! Slimmer is also better because it's bringing that weight closer in. I will have my Gf's father bore/ream the pulley out. I'm not equipped with a lathe yet (What am I thinking!)

Ha, and Yes I know, I measured today and saw that the smallest pulley would be gone Oops.

I hope too buy it in a few weeks along with the speed control.


How is mounting, are new holes needed or is drop in? I'm all about fabricating things, but just wondering.


-Jason

Stepper Monkey
04-25-2008, 12:33 AM
It is pretty easy to make it mount up, but there are no mounting holes on the motor face. The big flange on the face makes it really easy though. You can just drill it or notch it to take bolts, and just drill the old mount plate to match or just make a new one if you want it to look prettier.
The shaft is too long, but since only the non-threaded portion is 17mm, I just left the useless threaded part sticking out of the bottom of the pulley on mine and left it alone. You can just hacksaw it off for a cleaner look if you want to.

CROSSHATCH
04-25-2008, 08:31 AM
Ahhh my new angle grinder with cut-off blade would do wonders! :) I like too make things look pretty, so I'll have too make it look pretty. I know all the parts I want too get for it, the speed control, with a nice knob from Mcmaster.com (They have so much, prices are iffy, but they have a lot) Should be a cool new project.


-Jason

LeeWay
04-25-2008, 09:48 AM
At first, the duty cycle on these bugged me, but I see 2 to 4 hours on the second one posted. That is better. Heat may be an issue though without a fan of some sort. You could probably mount one on the top side to draw out the heat.

The motor I have on my mill would be overkill on a Taig I think. It is 2.5 HP.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=58115&d=1208791493


It came from Ebay. I can no longer find a listing for it anyway. I think he sold all he had. Check out this link.
http://cgi.ebay.com/TREADMILL-MOTOR-PWM-SPEED-CONTROL-MILL-LATHE-SHERLINE_W0QQitemZ140226431949QQihZ004QQcategoryZ71393QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247
What is interesting is the video of a guys testing these.
They sound pretty good.
A little too high compared to Surplus Center though.


I did buy another Ebay motor for my little lathe.
It is very similar to my mill motor. The base off my mill motor actually fit this blue motor as would the fan.

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-130-VDC-2-5-HP-4500-RPM-Treadmill-Replacement-Motor_W0QQitemZ220217086472QQihZ012QQcategoryZ26226QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247

Good luck with it and post some pics when ya'll get stuck on there. :)

CROSSHATCH
04-25-2008, 11:05 AM
Like everyone mentioned, I think the 2.5 HP is overkill lol. But also, I want a motor that is lighter, the .75 massed motor from surplus is lighter and stronger and is variable speed. I do like that. No more Pulley changing....Ah... :)

But thanks for posting the links. And fans will def be installed for a cooler motor.


-Jason

laszlozoltan
04-28-2008, 02:14 AM
why not build a counterweight to handle the load of the motor ? and for torque, you will have to take light cuts at higher rpm

Stepper Monkey
04-28-2008, 03:26 AM
why not build a counterweight to handle the load of the motor ?

The problem isn't the overall head weight - it isn't all that heavy - its that the load is unevenly distributed. The cause is not the mass, but the mass being cantilevered so far forward on a lever arm imparting angular forces on the carriages bearing surfaces, causing load to concentrate onto very small areas of the overall bearing surface and therefore a tendency to bind. Even more important is that the mass is set off to the left as well, adding angular forces in yet another plane and further concentrating load in undesirable ways. Counterweights serve well to offset weight, but it is far more difficult to use a counterweight system to solve a balance and leverage issue. The stock motor is just overly heavy and in a bad spot for this kind of carriage design, and while still functional it does limit the overall travel speed and ability to tighten down gib tolerances past a certain point.

A slightly more powerful motor of half the weight solves all the speed and accuracy issues most simply for those of us who run into that problem.

For those happy with the limits of the stock speed but in need of more cutting power, replacement with a motor three or four times as powerful but keeping the weight unchanged from stock solves cutting power issues most simply.

Either one works, but to try and get both benefits simultaneously involve either changing to a completely different spindle system, or changing the bearing system of the Z axis to a type more traditionally used to handle high angular forces.
I understand why neither were originally done - the mill design was pure genius for getting a lot of mill into a very low price point, and either solution would have been a lot pricier. Likely by a whole lot too much for the speed benefit gained.
So, you live with one or the other unless you really want to mod it heavily and get it to do both - and if you do, post it here, please share!

CROSSHATCH
06-03-2008, 08:49 PM
Stepper Moneky- Bringing back this thread because I want too actually buy this motor now with the controller. I can't stand adjusting the speed with the pulleys! I will just set it too the highest rated pulley and control the speed via the board. That way, I can control the speed without adjusting anything.


Also, is they motor smaller? Height wise? This is important....Let me know.


I would like too purchase this soon.



-Jason

phomann
06-03-2008, 09:10 PM
I don't know what it is. I have the upgraded Taig Motor and for some reason it bothers me. It works great, it's powerful and no complaints over here about that. I feel the motor being mounted the way it is... puts so much strain on the column! (nuts) It's a pretty heavy motor, if it was centered, I could understand, but being mounted like that makes me eerie, am I the only one that feels that way?? lol. I plan on upgrading too a variable speed motor in the Summer and one that can be controlled by my BOB board.

Whats everyone thought on the positioning, and is it anything too really worry about.


I just like taking care of my tools and machines.


-Jason

Hi Jason,

I've replaced the Taig motor with a 180V 400W Dc motor. I used a KBIC-240 controller with a DigiSpeed-XL controller. I highly recommend it. I can't recall the last time I changed the pulley belt.

Cheers,

Peter.

CROSSHATCH
06-03-2008, 09:39 PM
I'm going too buy the stuff from Surpluscenter! My biggest thing is controlling the Speed without changing the Pulley. I don't want too change any pulleys! Very annoying! Looking forward too this!


-Jason

warpedmephisto
06-07-2008, 01:00 AM
I picked out the same (3/4 hp) motor and matching controller from SC for my conversion. I plan to replace both motor and spindle pulleys and use a timing belt instead for power transfer. I've had problems with the stock tiny v-belt slipping in the past and while I'm upgrading I might as well knock out another problem in the process.

From what I remember the treadmill motor is about the same height, smaller in diameter and lighter than the stock Taig motor. I plan on purchasing another motor/controller set to use on my 9x20 lathe when I convert it over to variable speed. I have a nice digital tachometer and knob I plan on using for that conversion though. Just need time to do it all...

CROSSHATCH
06-07-2008, 09:57 AM
Sounds cool! Please post when you start your project. What do you need for the tachometer too work? I was thinking about it yesterday and stuff...


-Jason

Shinbone
06-13-2008, 03:10 PM
I bought a Sherline motor for my Taig mill and it seems to handle the duties pretty well, but clearly cost significantly more than the original.

As for other options, I'm in the process of getting the same treadmill motor you are looking at wired and operating. Early tests show decent speed range, however you will want some type of pulley system on there to attain high RPMs at the spindle. You will spend a bunch of time and energy trying to set up a control box and proper wiring hookup for this thing, such as a power switch, rheostat, a case, cord, pulley, etc. In the end it's cost me almost as much as the option I present next.

Penn State Industries has a nice variable speed DC motor kit available for ~$110 shipped
Link: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/TCLVSKIT.html
I purchased this kit for my midi wood lathe and it runs very smooth and quiet compared to the original Jet AC motor it had, plus I love the variable speed feature. The only negative is the motor controller will not run the motor at speeds below, say 100 rpm (i.e., it still rotates when the rheostat is at its lowest setting). It's rated at about 1/2HP and based on input from others it doesn't weight any more than the Taig 1/4HP motor option. You would have to modify the pulley, but that's about it.

warpedmephisto
06-13-2008, 09:25 PM
For Mach 3 I think you can run an input to the computer for the tach, but I will just be configuring it to put out a certain voltage to the DigiSpeed board which will just display a number in the tach box that is relatively close, but probably not true to the actual RPM. Once I get all the parts I will try to find if there's a way to have it feedback from the spindle back into Mach 3 and have it adjust until it has "true" RPM's in the box.