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bp092
02-03-2008, 11:49 AM
With much discussion on the new private forum and a few interesting posts from people here I feel that people are anxious to see more of Joe's machine and wondering why it is so silent here. To be honest with all of you the private forum was created as a support base, not to shift traffic off of this website. CNCZone after all is the birthplace of all of this and I would be absolutely no where in the world of DIY cnc without cnczone.com. Anyhow, here are some more teaser photos to anyone interested.

:)

http://www.vi01.com/cnc/hybrid/DSC_0056.JPG

http://www.vi01.com/cnc/joe/zslide2.jpg

http://www.vi01.com/cnc/joe/machinewithjacks.JPG

Working on a gecko 203v based controller, pmdx bob, antek PSU, rotary disconnect, IEC relay contactor, XLR motor cable connectors, true nema 4/12 enclosure

http://www.vi01.com/cnc/joe/controlbox.JPG

http://www.vi01.com/cnc/joe/controllerupdated1.jpg

Khalid
02-03-2008, 11:57 AM
Great to see u here bp092... so at last some one broke the silence:) i will happy to watch ur progress...

calgrdnr
02-03-2008, 12:22 PM
Howdy BP,

Your controller looks great!! I like how everything flows and you can just look at and follow where every thing goes . Care to elaborate on the parts and where you got them ? or is this all in the plans and we need to buy ?

thanks again great Job I want to build my next controler as clean as this one Kent

bp092
02-03-2008, 12:34 PM
Kent,

Not apart of the plans, will post a BOM soon for people on joe's 4x4 build. Thanks for the comments.

Mr.Chips
02-03-2008, 12:46 PM
With much discussion on the new private forum and a few interesting posts from people here I feel that people are anxious to see more of Joe's machine and wondering why it is so silent here. To be honest with all of you the private forum was created as a support base, not to shift traffic off of this website. CNCZone after all is the birthplace of all of this and I would be absolutely no where in the world of DIY cnc without cnczone.com. Anyhow, here are some more teaser photos to anyone interested.
[/IMG]

Thanks for posting BP92, I hope you don’t get in trouble like I did.
I really admire Joe’s Hybrid work and agree he deserves a medal. I agree that “the private forum was created as a support base” Joe has a responsibility to the plan buyers, and to focus on their questions, and that takes a lot of time, and as this is his hobby.

I am not building a clone of the Hybrid, nor am I making or selling plans or kits, or plan to. I’m only interested in the build and seeing everyone benefit from an innovative slant on material use, and construction ideas. “CNCZone after all is the birthplace of all of this”.

If and when people start building machines that encompass some of the attributes found on the Hybrid. They should not expect Joe to answer questions about the build. However knowing Joe, he will as time permits.

People are creative and innovative, some like Joe are more than others, however nothing is static and people adapting Joe’s innovations may even find even better tricks and twists to further our knowledge and improve our hobby machines, at least we hope.

bp092
02-03-2008, 12:55 PM
I encourage innovation. Anyone with a creative mechanical mind can disassemble joe's machine into pieces, as he said before steppers, vroller bearings, ball screws, it's all been done before; nothing new. But Joe in this machine (and I truely believe this) found a balance between materials, making this machine rigid and strong without all of the additives and time of welding, metal machining etc. He has designed this machine to be understood and built on simple fundamental principles. If you have the time and patience, a little know how you can do all of that. Might take you a few thousand hours and a ton of money to develop a machine like it as Joe did, or you can pay him a small fee and build a proven machine without all of the headaches. It's up to the individual person, that's all. Joe's not trying to make money, he's just trying to recover a portion of what it took to develop the 06 and the hybrid for all of you. Think of it as a payback, not a profit. There is no fairer way to put it.

Khalid
02-03-2008, 12:56 PM
Mr.Chips i second u:)

Mr.Chips
02-03-2008, 01:00 PM
I encourage innovation. Anyone with a creative mechanical mind can disassemble joe's machine into pieces, as he said before steppers, vroller bearings, ball screws, it's all been done before; nothing new. But Joe in this machine (and I truely believe this) found a balance between materials, making this machine rigid and strong without all of the additives and time of welding, metal machining etc. He has designed this machine to be understood and built on simple fundamental principles. If you have the time and patience, a little know how you can do all of that. Might take you a few thousand hours and a ton of money to develop a machine like it as Joe did, or you can pay him a small fee and build a proven machine without all of the headaches. It's up to the individual person, that's all. Joe's not trying to make money, he's just trying to recover a portion of what it took to develop the 06 and the hybrid for all of you. Think of it as a payback, not a profit. There is no fairer way to put it.

That said could we discuss and comment on the Hybrid build, I have some things I would like to air.

calgrdnr
02-03-2008, 01:19 PM
Kent,

Not apart of the plans, will post a BOM soon for people on joe's 4x4 build. Thanks for the comments.

Thanks BP looking forward to it

Mr. Chips
People are creative and innovative, some like Joe are more than others, however nothing is static and people adapting Joe’s innovations may even find even better tricks and twists to further our knowledge and improve our hobby machines, at least we hope.

Joe

Anyone can build their own machine, look at how many pipe rails, MDF machines are out there, hundreds, you are more than welcome to build you own 4x4 if you desire to. 80/20, MDF, HDPE, Uni-strut, v-bearings are not new ideas everyone uses them, I just provided an example to use them in harmony if you will, hence the word Hybrid.

There are tons of people on here who build their own machines, I wanted to build a cost effective 4x4. then others showed interest, so i just provided a set of plans to my build and if someone wants to pay me for them that is strictly up to them. I still believe the cost of my plans do save people many hours of time and money in materials that may be waisted.




I agree 100%with both statements, Joe & company ( I believe this was partially a joint effort, I might be wrong if so please forgive me)

I personally wouldn't mind seeing others take what Joe has designed and make it suit there own needs or skill's.

I am very thankfull for all Joe has done for the community and myself . ( I love my 2006 model and will use it for years to come I am sure.) I bought the kit from Joe, because this was the easy and quickest / best way for me to learn what CNC was about.

I would like to design my own one day and plan on cleening information where ever I can find it. This way I can build or fail to build a machine, I can call my own. Or at least say I put the configuration of parts in Harmony :) I believe this is the spirit in which this forum is built on and enjoyed by many.

If I was just starting out agian I would diffinately buy Joes plans for the 4x4 model., and think the Idea of a private forum is great ( but I hope we are not missing to much :( ) and would like to see some of the package deals worked out for any CNCzone member :)


take care Kent

ClaudioG
02-03-2008, 05:12 PM
Kent,

Not apart of the plans, will post a BOM soon for people on joe's 4x4 build. Thanks for the comments.

A BOM would be very handy in order for me to work out local pricing on the big parts (8020, Unistrut, ACME), shipping costs for the special bits, and regular stuff.

An estimated USA cost is usually nowhere near what it costs locally.

I also need to consider the conversion to metric for the MDF and HDPE bits, which looks like a lot less work than the 2006 model.

Don't have a problem with paying the $75 for the plans, but would rather not do it until I can figure out a rough budget ($'s and time required). Plus it distracts me less at the moment by not having access to the private forums :)

Cheers,

Claudio

bp092
02-03-2008, 05:19 PM
I don't think Joe will post a BOM here, I may do one for the electronics but that's it. The machine BOM comes with the plans. I understand your need to budget. I built the basic machine for about $1,500 USD, controller was another $1,000 or so but you could definitely do it for a few hundred or less. I would expect to budget between $2000 - $2500 for the entire build when you are said and done. Also make sure you can get unistrut and 8020 to you, those are the key components to the build which are more difficult to get overseas unfortunately.

ClaudioG
02-03-2008, 05:37 PM
Sorry, I missread your statement about providing a BOM.

Shipping of the long parts is costly, as USPS have limits on the length of items (~46"), so the only option is UPS or FedEx. Mark from 8020surplus has been very helpful, and was able to let me know that shipping for the 8020 bits would be US$480!

Fortunately we can get 8020 and Unistrut locally, but am yet to get pricing. I have sent off for quote on the 8020, but don't know what Unistrut bits are required.

I already have 2 x 1/2" 8-2 Start ACME's but will need at least another and maybe a little more for the z axis.

All the other special bits should be small enough to ship economically.

I am heading to the USA again in May so might have to bring some more stuff back.

Cheers,

Claudio

bp092
02-03-2008, 05:43 PM
They allow 8020 extrusions as a carryon? :)

ClaudioG
02-03-2008, 05:56 PM
Not as carry-on, but a luggage.

I've just looked back at the ebay listing for the 8020 and noticed each piece weighs 16 pounds, so it's probably too heavy anyway.

Looks like I'll have to wait for the local pricing, which I can guarantee will be a lot more than the $50 to $70 you guys pay over there.

Time to move to the USA!

Cheers,

Claudio

bp092
02-03-2008, 06:00 PM
Always a possibility! And the prices we are getting aren't even retail they are surplus, a significant discount off of retail prices.

Greolt
02-03-2008, 06:19 PM
Fortunately we can get 8020 and Unistrut locally, but am yet to get pricing. I have sent off for quote on the 8020, but don't know what Unistrut bits are required.



Looking at the pics that bp092 posted, the unistrut is not an important component.

Seems like it simply makes up the legs and table support. This could easily be done with angle iron or RHS or other alternatives.

If you can get the 8020 locally or even substitute with ITEM, most of the rest we would normally get from OS anyway.

Greg

bp092
02-03-2008, 07:44 PM
I agree with greg's statement. As long as you go with similar dimensions it will work. Use of unistrut is because it's cheap and available at most home centers near people. It's also slotted so there is no welding or drilling. Would try your best to get the 8020, it will save you a lot of frustration, time planning.

joecnc2006
02-03-2008, 09:36 PM
That said could we discuss and comment on the Hybrid build, I have some things I would like to air.

Sure

jdell42
02-04-2008, 12:26 PM
I don't think Joe will post a BOM here, I may do one for the electronics but that's it.

Very slick case.. Interested in where you got that.

Mr.Chips
02-04-2008, 12:39 PM
Sure

Thanks Joe,

Hager

joecnc2006
02-04-2008, 02:49 PM
Very slick case.. Interested in where you got that.

It is a standard Nema case he got off of e-bay

jdell42
02-04-2008, 03:49 PM
Thanks.. I was looking for a similar case with buttons and sub panel done. Still not found a good site for "reasonably" priced Nema 4 cases.

bp092
02-04-2008, 05:21 PM
Very slick case.. Interested in where you got that.

Standard metal nema 4/12 enclosure from ebay brand new $89. Being both sealed and metal is recommended especially with larger power supplies and geckos.

bp092
02-04-2008, 05:23 PM
Thanks.. I was looking for a similar case with buttons and sub panel done. Still not found a good site for "reasonably" priced Nema 4 cases.

Check ebay, and it helps to get a case with a removable back plate as well as a removable bottom plate. That way you can drill all your holes in the drill press easily and flat. The door, well you have one shot I suppose :confused:. Step drills come in handy :rainfro:

Reflow
02-07-2008, 06:42 AM
Not as carry-on, but a luggage.

I've just looked back at the ebay listing for the 8020 and noticed each piece weighs 16 pounds, so it's probably too heavy anyway.

Looks like I'll have to wait for the local pricing, which I can guarantee will be a lot more than the $50 to $70 you guys pay over there.

Time to move to the USA!

Cheers,

Claudio

Hey Claudio,

Another option in OZ is Maytec, much the same as the 8020 and minitec. Don't have any idea about comparative price though.

--Scott

ClaudioG
02-07-2008, 07:47 AM
Thanks for the tips Scott.

Actually I got my quote back from 80/20 Australia and the main extrusions are about AU$125 (US$110) each plus about AU$35 shipping for 3 of them and the 125 t-nuts. So total for the lot inc shipping is AU$475 (US$420). I must admit a bit less than what I was expecting, but more than I had hoped for :)

Above prices are ex GST

Cheers,

Claudio

grahamshere
02-20-2008, 12:15 AM
Hi BP092, Im very much thinking of building the hybred, what I was wondering is, you say you put about $1000.00 into the drives and motors, you dont say how big your motors are, I was looking at a web site but cant remeber which, but any way they had a 4 axis gecko drive with 4 nema 34 750 oz steppers with extra things like estop,limit switches and a shuttle controler for $2500.00 Joe had said you paid around $2500.00 for your whole machine, Can you tell me what you excpect to get out of your system. speed and torque and such.Thank you for your time and cant wait to see the rest of your build. Graham

bp092
02-20-2008, 07:49 AM
Graham, I posted a complete bill of materials in the hybrid private forum for the members there, but went with hobbycnc 305oz/in unipolar motors (4) with the 4 gecko 203vs. My total cost ended up being around $1500 said and done. Machine was easily built for under $2k. So if I had to estimate off the top of my head I would honestly say that I built this machine and controller/electronics for less than $3,500. Again though it is totally do-able to do a regular cnc controller like hobbycnc's and spend significantly less. What I did is pretty high up there. It will provide performance but only if it is something you surely think you see a return on. For example if you are doing this for small hobby stuff, a sign every week or so it's not really worth it unless you have the money to spend. I plan to run the 4x4 hard and get a quick return with just using the machine.

grahamshere
02-20-2008, 01:13 PM
Thanks BP for the reply, $3500.00 aint bad considering you can build 3 hybreds to the cost of 1 4x4 shopbot. This is for buisness so it will be worked hard, My goal is to build 3 or 4 of these machines , not all at once though, Do you tihnk the 305 oz/in are enough for this if your working them hard? Graham

joecnc2006
02-20-2008, 02:18 PM
the 305oz/in are uni-polar so if you run them in bi-polar like the geckos do they become 425oz/in motors.

Joe

grahamshere
02-20-2008, 02:53 PM
Hey Joe, I have the 425's now, Is that what you are using in your video's, What are the acceleration settings you have on those motors on your hybred, Why im asking is this is a big key in relief carving, at least thats what im finding anyway. I use cut 3d to do my gcode and it would estimate 2 hrs to do a carving but in reality its more like 3hrs and thats because of acceleration. Graham

joecnc2006
02-20-2008, 03:04 PM
I used accel. of 15.....

yes 425oz/in in video's with the hobby cnc pro kit.

bp092
02-24-2008, 06:52 PM
Here's a short video jogging around at 300IPM. I can jog at 400 IPM and more but plan to run this machine max at 200 IPM cutting 150ipm strong like Joe to not have to babysit it. It runs very strong and smooth, I'm very happy with the results. Should be cutting the dust shoe by midweek.

4x4 Hybrid CNC Router

Let me know what you guys think.

grahamshere
02-24-2008, 08:17 PM
WOW that looks friggen great, very nice machine, Cant wait to get the plans and start mine. Graham

Glidergider
02-25-2008, 03:27 PM
Brian,
Very nice.

grahamshere
02-26-2008, 02:37 AM
Hey bp, That is a 4x4 machine right? It looks much bigger than 4x4. Bet your pretty happy with the performance, seems to run very smooth. What speed would you get when jogging both x&y at the same time, Around 600imp I bet.Ill be getting my plans soon.cant wait to see you cut somthing with it. Graham
Oh ps ive watched the video about 20 times now:)

Khalid
03-02-2008, 10:54 AM
please post more pictures...

bp092
06-01-2008, 12:54 PM
Here's another video cutting 1/2" cast acrylic with a 1/4" oflute upspiral at 100IPM cutting and .05" per pass. Slow and steady but the cut quality was impeccable and worth it. Cast is a very hard material, but machines really well. For the money $$ (50% more than extruded) you get a much better end product. Thanks Joe and Ernie for the file.

http://www.vi01.com/cnc/vacplate.JPG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHHTX6f8e3Y

bp092
06-02-2008, 09:56 PM
90 views and no responses to the video lol, oh well guess there are a lot of lurkers here...

Heres the vac plate with its skirt on, double layered offset cuts. I need to trim it about 1"-2" its too long but better to start big :). Seems to work well with suction, will mill some parts tomorrow and really test it out. No screws yet but will add them, just double stick carpet tape and its holding considerably well. 8-)

http://www.vi01.com/cnc/dustshoe.jpg

ger21
06-02-2008, 10:21 PM
I didn't notice the link to the video. :)

You say you get a much better end product for 50% more. Are you just talking about quality of cut? Seems like it's not needed for this application.

joecnc2006
06-02-2008, 10:22 PM
the carpet tape will hold it well, it will help seal the edges.

joe

bp092
06-02-2008, 10:23 PM
Cast is just better to machine, its more money but I like the way it cuts. Might be overkill but I bought a pretty big rip of it for other parts where edge and face quality will be a bit more important. Do you work in plastics much? Have any opinions, im curious.

bp092
06-02-2008, 10:25 PM
the carpet tape will hold it well, it will help seal the edges.

joe

Fiberglass carpet tape works very well, has a great tack. Screws will be a good insurance so that it doesn't get pulled off one time. Need to trim it down though, it works as is but theres too much extra flap that can get drawn inward at times jogging towards the cutter.

ger21
06-03-2008, 11:09 AM
Do you work in plastics much? Have any opinions, im curious.

Not too much, and we don't spend the money for cast. You can get a clean on extruded acrylic if you get rid of the chips and scrap after rough cutting, then make a light finish pass.

audioandy1762
06-03-2008, 01:56 PM
Hi bp

Great video, your machine looks great.

I like your Mach screen is it one you have edited?

Andy

ps which model router are you using?

bp092
06-03-2008, 05:44 PM
I have a porter-cable 891 var speed router with a k2 mount. The screen is machblue but a member on the hybrid 4x4 forum (for plan purchasers) posted a modified version there for a few things like a touch plate and laser zero.

calgrdnr
06-04-2008, 12:56 AM
Howdy BP , I used industrial velcro (got at OSH)to hold on my dust shoe skirt. I have two sizes for long and short bits the velcro makes it real easy to change them out and seals it real well

Kent

bp092
06-06-2008, 07:41 PM
looks nice, cool design

bp092
10-11-2008, 01:22 PM
Posted this our hybrid forum, machine is still running strong. Also another pic using a zero plate (thanks to Ernie Jeff & Greolt) :rainfro:

bp092
11-09-2008, 11:01 AM
Some updates on my hybrid. Haven't posted in this log in awhile and just got this machine really buttoned up. Got igus chain on the Y axis now, limit switches on XYZ and dumpster motor couplers on the Ys.

http://joescnc.com/hybrid/u1.JPG

http://joescnc.com/hybrid/u2.JPG

http://joescnc.com/hybrid/u3.JPG

See the limit in there was fun to mount, also added another angle so the limit on the right side of the x had something to bump into; ended up making a dual function; also a cradle for my zero plate :D.

http://joescnc.com/hybrid/u4.JPG

http://joescnc.com/hybrid/u5.JPG

http://joescnc.com/hybrid/u6.JPG

http://joescnc.com/hybrid/u7.JPG

Also fixed my cooling fan issues rewired the controller and mounted the entire enclosure to my cabinet. Lastly in the home stretch with the 4th axis lathe that will be an addition to the machine. Been keeping the progress over at the Joes hybrid forum (http://www.joescnc.com) will post some photos once it is getting closer, maybe a little sneak peak early this week. :)

ger21
11-09-2008, 12:13 PM
Is that the rumoured 4th axis hiding in the back? ;)

bp092
11-09-2008, 12:19 PM
Yep :D

ger21
11-09-2008, 12:36 PM
Have you actually cut anything with that?? It sure looks clean. :)

bp092
11-09-2008, 12:41 PM
Sure have, the dust collection is pretty awesome now, no more dust keeps the machine very clean. Blew off the machine with some air before I took the pics though :D

calgrdnr
11-09-2008, 01:51 PM
Looking great. You did a fantastic job. can't wait to see the 4th axis work . thanks for sharing there have been far to few pictures and info about the 4x4 on cnczone . guess need to buy the plans to learn about it. I like the new web site some pictures there also thanks again Kent

Khalid
11-09-2008, 03:36 PM
bp092... great machine you have and what a housekeeping and neatness.. congratulations for such a great upkeep;)
And i also want to see ur's 4th axis and its work:)

Khalid
11-09-2008, 03:37 PM
No doubt Joe's is the man of century in CNC:)

budP
11-10-2008, 10:55 PM
Nice pix
Did you modify the machine? I see that the angle iron guide rails are flat, I thought that they were angled on the top or am I thinking about some other build?

budP

bp092
11-11-2008, 06:43 AM
The angle iron is radiused at the edges, we choose not to grind our rails as apposed to a machine like the mechmate at 1/8" both Joe and I found early on it wasn't necessary. Hitting it with a file lightly to break off any coarseness and natural grinding overtime with the vroller bearings it runs smooth as running vbearings on expensive vrail. Runs like butter. Thanks Khalid, I really like your 4th axis; it's simplicity is what got me. I would say it has partly inspired my design for mine. :)

bp092
11-23-2008, 11:31 AM
Some new photos of the "rumored" 4th axis. Been documenting it a lot over at the hybrid support forum and it is open source there, when it is done I will release the drawings and vcarve files to Joe's Hybrid builders. Anyhow here are some photos for now. Should be up and test cutting soon.

Khalid
11-23-2008, 12:07 PM
Thanks for posting pictures of ur 4th axis..i am really waiting for some beautiful 4th axis work from u:)

Xnaron
02-11-2009, 11:27 AM
Are you using aluminum angle or steel for the bearing rails? Looks like aluminum in the pictures. Also what series of 8020 are you using for the rail supports?

thanks

bp092
02-11-2009, 01:03 PM
Are you using aluminum angle or steel for the bearing rails? Looks like aluminum in the pictures. Also what series of 8020 are you using for the rail supports?

thanks

I'm using steel angle, aluminum angle won't be as rigid and won't take wear as well as steel will. They are 2"x4" 8020 pieces from their surplus ebay store that you see advertised on the zone.

Xnaron
02-21-2009, 05:06 PM
Nice job. I started my build last week. Where did you get the terminal blocks for the steppers that you have attached on the HDPE? I like the 4th axis.

bp092
03-19-2009, 05:27 PM
Those blocks are from radio shack you can get them at almost any electronics retailer/online store.

ifeliciano
04-09-2009, 01:41 PM
bp092

PM sent. RE: controller

bp092
04-09-2009, 03:45 PM
Replied to it.

bp092
04-16-2009, 09:41 PM
Put up a new video on youtube last night, my first 3d relief carving. File from 3dvectorart, a free file James Booth put out. It is mahogany about 3/8" thick from a 1/2" thick blank. 200IPM 18,000RPM .01stepover and .08 depth per pass. I kicked acceleration up to 15 as recommended by Joe in his previous posts when doing 3d stuff. Seems to speed it up quite a bit.

YouTube - 3d Relief Carving

ifeliciano
04-16-2009, 10:07 PM
Brian,

Nice Fleur-de-lis. How do you sand something like that ?

Ivan

bp092
04-16-2009, 11:04 PM
There are barely any machining marks, it is almost ready for finish right off the table. A tiny touch up with 150 grit makes it perfect, really not that bad considering the machine already did all the work.

hockeyguy01
02-18-2012, 09:35 PM
Hi there i have a question for you. What is in the joes forum? I am new to this and have no problem paying the money to get the information to build this product but i would really like to know how to use it and what the plans are like.

Are the plans in blue print form? Are the BOM that you list tell us the motor screws etc. And if you find another build does the BOM list that they have individualized to their build?

ger21
02-18-2012, 09:39 PM
Welcome to Joe'sCNC.com (http://www.joescnc.com)