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under-dog
12-14-2007, 10:09 PM
I have had the line loc for about a year and have finally gotten around to adding a blower to my Taig. I was origionally going to use a camping mattress pump but decided it might be too noisy, unpredictable and unreliable. Then it occured to me to just hook it into my air compressor (with its own regulator), which is hosed into my shop in the basement anyways. Im a little slow on the uptake sometimes.


I have also re-done the front door on the enclosure (dropped the old one and the Acrylic shattered. Also made a new mounting plate for the 4th axis. I was using a sherline tilting angle plate but it took up too much room and was more difficult to square up.



next I need to find a good way to mount the tailstock for the 4th accurately and make a riser block for the electronic tool setter I just picked up so that it is at "0" for Z on the 4th axis.


Any sugggestions on easy ways to set a tailstock to a 4th axis so it is dead on center with the 4th?

tikka308
12-15-2007, 12:04 AM
Underdog - are you also using any type of coolant (even WD-40)? I've wondered if it's futile to use liquid with the air-stream blowing chips (and the coolant) away...

CROSSHATCH
12-15-2007, 01:19 AM
Oh man that great! Really clean set-up.

I was going too install an air compressor in my shop, but I have my Coolant set-up so that it comes out with a good amount of PSI, clearing the chips too (I hope at least)


Nice set TAIG, love mine!


-Speed

under-dog
12-15-2007, 09:27 AM
tikka- Sometimes I use a little cutting oil or WD-40 when needed but not alot.

I typically cut alot of wax or white metal(pewter). The wax isnt an issue for numerouse reasons. Cuts like butter, self lubing and the chips are just so light and not in the way. The blower should clear this.

White metal can be a little gummy similar to aluminum but much softer. Picture a combination of the properties of wax and AL. I do get cutter clogging especially on smaller cutters and use lube in these cases.

This is where I am hoping the blower will really help by keeping my cuts really clear and free of any debris that could cause clogs. I will report when I have some results. Havend cut with the blower yet. LAter today I am making a linear adjustment system for my 4th tailstock(Al) and will let you know how it works. Will post when done.



Sometimes I cut Al for tooling or fixturing (as mentioned above) and I hope it will help there too by removing chips and adding a bit of cooling to the cutter.

I read somewhere that lube and cool is essential if not recommended for Aluminum but I cut it so rarely that I just babysit it and do other things in the shop and give it a shot of WD every so often.

I have heard that cutter life is extended as well but for the types of materials I typically work on they dont get much abuse anyway so I can use HSS which are relatively cheap. I cut one off prototype model stuff mostly so its not like I am running long repedative cycles.


So for me and what I do I cant justify the added cost and mess of a coolant or mist system.



Take a close look as well at my column support/tramming fixture as well. You can see some of it in the photos. It really stiffened everything up and it took all of about 5 minuted to get the column in tram once I had it installed. Cant be knocked out of alignment now as well. They are mounted to a thick baseplate that the mill is attached to as well so everything is tied together and really rigid now. Compared to how it was at stock anyway. I was always worried about knocking it out of alignment since it is held by only one bolt in the back.

I will post some better pics that I have if you are interested.


Speed -

Thank you. Yeah I tried to make it real clean setup. So much easier to clean. My whole shop is that way. I try to keep clutter down and not have alot of cords running everywhere etc. Makes cleanup easier quicker and less frustrating. Chasing chips can be a nightmare as you know.

stealth-wrx
12-15-2007, 12:40 PM
You have one Extremely clean set up.

kuhncw
12-15-2007, 05:08 PM
Hello Under-dog,

I would like to see more photos of your column support and base. I've been considering bracing the column on my Taig. No problems yet with the standard setup, but I do like the idea of a brace.

Regards,

Chuck Kuhn

tsalaf
12-15-2007, 06:40 PM
To make repeated set ups of your 4th axis easier, why don't you mount the rotary table and tail stock on a single plate, separate from the mill table. That way,you only have to set up the rotary and tail stock once then place the whole unit on the mill. Of course, you'll still have to zero the whole unit once you place it on the mill.

under-dog
12-15-2007, 07:58 PM
tsalaf-

I did consider that.

two things held me back from that idea.

1) That would be a big chunk of aluminum. It would also have to basically replicate what the mill bed does now allowing the tailstock to slide to a range of positions along X. Y would still be critical to check and Z as well, depending on how flat the plate is.

2) The work I mostly so small that the tailstock is often not needed. This means that I can leave the 4th axis always attached and still have plenty of bed to do a clamped setup or vise setup. With the large plate this would be harder. The hopes is to make the tailstock easy to attach in an accurate easy manner when needed.


I think I have devised a system that will afford adjustability and removability in a fairly easy to use repeatable fashion. It is based on my sherline tailstock with mods and additions. I am making it so it has linear slides in all adjustable directions. When I say all directions: I have added a base plate that will track down the "X" of that taig table and a slide adjustment that tracks in the "Y" . I am also adding a slide to the existing height adjustment so I only have to worry about height and not how level the tailstock head is

under-dog
12-15-2007, 08:01 PM
kuhncw,

I will post more pics later. I have them somewhere on a CD with pics before it was ever assembled to the machine so you can really see what it looks like.


If you are a member of Yhoo taig group I have them posted in my folder. Under-dog's pics or something like that, I think its named. Its been awile since I went there.

under-dog
12-16-2007, 08:55 AM
Well its finished. I will post later to show it on as well. Basically it now replicates (somewhat) the movement of a lathe tailstock. It just seemed too tediouse to try and fullly set it each time while trying to keep it square as well. This should keep it fairly square and allow me to concentrate on fine tuning the adjustment. Plus I hope the taig table and grooves are accurate enough for it to be positioned anywhere and be "set".

under-dog
12-16-2007, 09:01 AM
kuhncw,

Here you go.

I have added som other picks of the enclosure and such. Some are older and things have changed. As this thread mentioned at start. The 4th axis setup is different. I have also improved the door after dropping and breaking the first.

kuhncw
12-16-2007, 11:37 AM
Hello Under-Dog,

Thanks for the photos. You have a very neat setup and the side bracing is well done.

Would you mind posting a note explaining how the junction boxes on your steppers are made or what they consist of?

Thanks again.

Regards

Chuck

tsalaf
12-16-2007, 11:57 AM
That looks like an efficient solution to your tailstock problem.

under-dog
12-16-2007, 12:58 PM
The junction boxes I got at Radio Shack. I forget exactly what they are called now but i bet if you went with a pic of mine or even explain it to someone there they will be able to figure it out. It seemed to be a pretty common item when I asked for it.


How it works.

My conrtroller is a xylotex complete setup with steppers. The steppers have a long lead to them so the plug was really hanging out there. I saw a blog someone had done and he had done the same thing. Its where I got the idea.

I had to:
1) make a hole at the bottom of the box where ther lead came though from the stepper.
2) make a open slot just under the lid on the main box(the size of the grommet with cable in it)for the controller lead to come in. I put a rubber grommet(also from Radio shack)there to avoid wear on the cable where it came through the box. The lid comes over and closes off the open end of the slot and holds it all in.
3) made two pairs of slots the size of zip ties at the base of the box where it sits against the motors.


connection:
1) I then put the motor lead through the box and zip tied the box to the motor.
2) connected the controller lead to the stepper lead , stuffed all the connection into the box and grommeted the hole where the stepper lead came out.
3)The lid then goes on and closes it all together.



I know this is a bit wordy and might be tough to understand. I will open up one of the boxes later and take some close up pics that may show better what I tried to describe.

under-dog
12-16-2007, 10:35 PM
Hello Under-Dog,

Thanks for the photos. You have a very neat setup and the side bracing is well done.

Would you mind posting a note explaining how the junction boxes on your steppers are made or what they consist of?

Thanks again.

Regards

Chuck


Here are the pics of the junction box.

I also added pics of the taistock on the table. Although not really positioned just thrown on to have a look see. I need to take the time to get the 4th and tail aligned dead on to each other.

The height gage riser for the electronic height gage so it is at "0" to the z of the 4th axis is doen as well. Pics added. This way I make a tool change touch of to the setter and accurately zero out with no fuss. :)

under-dog
12-17-2007, 08:01 AM
Underdog - are you also using any type of coolant (even WD-40)? I've wondered if it's futile to use liquid with the air-stream blowing chips (and the coolant) away...


The blower works very well at clearing chips. Yes it does blow the WD around a bit or off if the pressure is high enough. But not comepletely, I think surface lubrication is still happeneing.

It is sort of a catch 22. The combo of the blower and WD-40 will neever be a flood or mist system......What I mean is:

Once you put WD on the chips tend to get stuck a bit. You can keep the pressure low so that the WD just moves around a bit andstays but the chips stay a bit as well. If you turn the pressure up to clear the chips the puddle of WD goes too. I guess it comes down to what is the most important element or need.

It seems that the surface lubing that is left with sufficient enough pressure for chip removal seems to work well enough for my needs. No it probably isnt as good as a flood or mister but for the amount of harder materials I cut is is a more logical solution.


Removing the chips definately helps with surface finish and clogging and at the very least keeps me from having to manually brush or blow them away every so often.

under-dog
12-18-2007, 07:43 PM
The linear adjustment worked real well. Holds it 95% square while adjusting. I have a little play so i still tweaked it a bit to get it 100% squared up on all directions but it made it much easier to do.

kuhncw
12-18-2007, 09:16 PM
Nice job on the junction boxes. I need to do something very similar.
Thanks for posting the notes and photos.

Regards,

Chuck

under-dog
12-23-2007, 07:43 AM
I did my first test of a flip mill on the new 4th axis setup yesterday. It went very well. The pieces lined up perfectly. I used the tailstock which was preset up close to the roraty table. All I did was slide it along the X and into the right postition and lock it down. Lined up perfectly. No mismatch from side A to B.

The only issues I had were on my part:

1) material choice(Oak..i wanted to try wood) Heavy grain so detail was obscured. Some of the finer details like the string tenshioners and knobs also just broke right off during the mill process. Fair at best for holding small detail

2) I used an existing model off the web(full scale) and scaled it down to a size I could cut. When you get smaller often times it makes sense to exaggerate details so the show up. Some of the details are very faint. I also took off the strings too small to mill with the cutters I have.


Otherwise though mechanically the mill performed as hoped. 4th axis, tailstock and z height were so simple and awesome.

CROSSHATCH
12-23-2007, 10:14 AM
Thats cool as hell! Really nice, I'll one day use a 4th axis, in the mean time, I want to 1st cnc basic things. Looks great :)

-Speed

under-dog
12-23-2007, 11:20 AM
Thanks speed. It is so nice now that the 4th is set up well. Ive had it for awhile, cut a few things but found it too much of a pain before I made these mods. I think I will be using it alot more now.



If a setup takes too long for me somethimes its not worth it. I am a really fast and good model maker/sculptor so by the time I generate a model file, tool path files and the had to take a long setup time I usually could have all but hand carved most projects. So this efficient setup should make it worthwhile now.



I will post my next projects as well. I plan on something really cool. Sherman tank maybe....... something really sculptural and detailed. Time to see what this thing can really do now.



Anyone know of a good source for long reach miniature ball and end mills. The ones I have are largish(1/32" Its all relative I guess) and cant cut that deep before they hit the tool shank.

oldslotgeek
12-29-2007, 11:52 AM
Hello Under-Dog...

Where did you get the neat mounts for the stepper motors? I just got a Taig setup from deepgroove but I didn't get any mounts...

Regards
Bob Emott
birtyres@msn.com

under-dog
12-29-2007, 11:49 PM
Hello Under-Dog...

Where did you get the neat mounts for the stepper motors? I just got a Taig setup from deepgroove but I didn't get any mounts...

Regards
Bob Emott
birtyres@msn.com

The mill is OEM CNC ready Taig. The stepper mounts came with it standard. From what I have seen (ebay pics)the Deepgroove looks to be based based on the same base unit and uses the same mounts. Wierd that it didnt come with them. They sell it as complete machine I thought.

The 4th axis is OEM sherline CNC ready and comes with the mount.

Punisher_67
01-03-2008, 12:21 PM
Underdog would this be something you are looking for your Taig

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0-tXDEvAqg

I am looking to purchase a CNC 4 axis Taig setup very soon do you have any words of wisdome.........:confused:

oldslotgeek
01-03-2008, 02:29 PM
The mill is OEM CNC ready Taig. The stepper mounts came with it standard. From what I have seen (ebay pics)the Deepgroove looks to be based based on the same base unit and uses the same mounts. Wierd that it didnt come with them. They sell it as complete machine I thought.

The 4th axis is OEM sherline CNC ready and comes with the mount.
Thans fo the help... Turns out that the mounts were included wrapped in newspaper... I thought the wrapped pieces were a couple of extra tool posts that I had ordered and I never unwrapped them until I started setting up my new toy...

under-dog
01-03-2008, 07:59 PM
Underdog would this be something you are looking for your Taig

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0-tXDEvAqg

I am looking to purchase a CNC 4 axis Taig setup very soon do you have any words of wisdome.........:confused:

That is actually a 5 axis setup.
X-1
Y-2
Z-3
A-4
?(not sure its designation)-5 That would be the second rotary mounted to the trunnion table.

I have seen it before. I believe High Tech Systems makes it. They also make some other accessories for the Taig. I havent seen the 2nd rotary.

It is something I have thought about to go to 5th axis. The big issue would not be the additionall hardware for it. You are looking at maybe $400 more than my present setup if made myself. Not sure how much they sell it for. The big issue is the software and also my ability to program it if I did have the right software.


I have not actually priced it but.....From what I know to get something decent like mastercam or such is big$$$. Thousands to tens thousands. Add in the additional hardware and I would easily double my investment or more.

I may be wronge and there is a software out there that is affordable and does true 5th axis well. If I am someone please enlighten me as to what is out there.....


Presently I use 2 CAM softwares:

1) DeskCNC - does 2.5 D pocketing/contouring as well as 3D contouring and "4 axis" which is actually 3 axis. When used the Y movement is replaced by the rotary so it really only rasters along the X at "0" on th Y

2) Meshcam - 3D contouring only and Bitmap conversion. More advanced 3D controls and auto genertaes flip milling and indexed rotary files for its fouth axis milling.


Combined these two softwares I think cost me around $300.
The 4th cost around $350 -$400


I would love 5th but cant justify the cost or "need" right now. For not I get by. And As I mentioned I hand sculpt well so Even if I can get my present setup to get me 90% -95% there I can finish the rest ....for now




One of my considerations also is potentially a 3-D printer. There are some coming out now that are fairly affordable and look to be somewhat good in resolution. So I also figure if i wait long enough......

Dont be surprised if someday they will eventually be the type of thing everyone can afford to have in thier home much like the personal printers we have today. 15 years ago ppl didnt have that kind of tech accessable to them and had to go to a print shop to get done what they now do today at home on thier own.