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View Full Version : newbie looking at the taig deep groove 1?



Fritzie15
09-20-2007, 09:45 PM
Hello,
Have been looking for a while for a mill. I was originally looking at getting the x3 cnc from syil but i move every six months and it would be hard to lug a 500 lb machine around. So I am thinking of getting a cnc ready taig and was wondering what the experienced guys thought of this machine by deep groove

http://www.deepgroove1.com

The main part of my work will be small prototyping of parts to get farmiliar with g code and the hole cnc world then as i progress it will move into parts made out of alluminum for an rv-8 plane i will be building.

The main questions i have is will this machine be a good starter and what will the accuracy be?

What else will i need other than this kit? Im guessing a cad program (autocad is what i have know), cam program for 3d objects (meshcam), and mach 3.

Any help would be most appreciated as i plan to start this as soon as possible for a reasonable price lol

Kevin

Stepper Monkey
09-21-2007, 11:46 AM
The limitation with the Taig in comparision with an X3 will not be accuracy, it will be the in the size and hardness of the materials cut. The Taig is probably actually easier for a novice to get it and keep it cutting accurately, but it will not have anywhere near the capacity. For wax it doesn't matter, the Taig is actually easier and faster at that. Aluminum will be slower on the Taig, steel is very much slower and very limited in what you can do to it. The tradeoff here is primarily one of simplicity and portability versus power and size, not of accuracy.

Deepgroove sells machines with a stock Xylotex driver board. He is reputable, and good about delivering them, but not so strong on after sale support.
Nick Carter is another Taig dealer you really, really should check out as well. He has a lot of good information and is very helpful.
Whatever you do just stay away from ANY system sold with those little StepmasterNC drivers (they look like a little black radar detector). No one I can find personally or on any forum has EVER had any positive experience with them, either as a product or a company.

under-dog
09-21-2007, 12:42 PM
I purchased mine from Nick and am very happy. Conpetative prices and excellent support both before and after. I do wax pewter and some aluminum on small scale(jewelry and similar items)

I cant comment on other taig dealers but I know with other types of products u run into ppl who will give you any information you are looking for to get you to buy something and then can hardley remember who you are afterwards when you have an issue or question.

From my experience and seeing Nick on the forum, he is always willing to help you out with information even if you didnt but the mill from him(To a limit of course dont want to take advantages of soemones generosity)

Andre' B
09-21-2007, 01:31 PM
Some quotes from their web page.
"
Since our website and Ebay are E-commerce based, we try to keep this philosophy by not providing phone contact information etc.
"
"
Can you imagine 15-20 phone calls a day from folks who think that they maybe buying a machine in the next year?
"

Any business that thinks talking to customers is to much trouble is not getting my money. It is a safe bet that support will be a problem.

John Bear Ross
09-21-2007, 04:23 PM
As a fellow newb, might I recommend Nick Carter, at www.cartertools.com

He was/is very supportive during my tire-kicking process, never pushy, and has provided great support since the purchase.

I went the CNC-Ready Taig + Xylotex 4-stepper turnkey kit + CNC-ready Sherline Rotary Table route.

I use Rhino 4.0 for CAD, Deskproto 4.1 for CAM, and Mach 3 for sending signals to the box.

www.xylotex.com
www.rhino3d.com
www.deskproto.com
www.artofcnc.com
http://www.sherline.com/special.htm (rotary tables are on sale this month, and I'd snap one up if I didn't already have one)

Best,
John Bear Ross
www.johnbearross.com

Fritzie15
09-21-2007, 09:14 PM
I sent an email to carter tools and see what i get for a reply. It looks like it will be the same cost as if i went with deepgroove 1.

xylotec 4 axis complete kit 550 includes shipping with the upgraded motors
2019 -cr 1005.50 with the 10% stated on the website and 65 dollars shipping.

so for a grand total of 1555.50

then i will need to pick up mills etc

Meshcam and mach 3 full version 400 aprox.

WHat do you guys think will this be a good setup to go with for a first timer and then once im not moving around every six months i can get a bigger x3 and retrofit it for the larger projects.

Harryman
09-22-2007, 11:26 AM
It's a good way to start. After you get some experience with the Taig, you will know what you might need in a bigger mill or you might find the Taig fits the bill. Taig's also have a good resale value if you decide to move on.

Don't forget to budget in some $ for tooling besides cutting tools. Vise, clamps, measuring/set up tools, etc.

retinutah
02-16-2009, 04:11 PM
Hi;
I purchased a taig from Deepgrove about 8 months ago and let it set on the shelf for 7 months when I finally got around to setting it up I found I had a problem with the controller. I sent it back for repair and Paul at Deepgrove sent me a new controller at no charge.Everything is working great. The machine is accurate.
I highly recommend Deepgrove.
Good luck

fretsman
02-16-2009, 04:16 PM
Hi;
I purchased a taig from Deepgrove about 8 months ago and let it set on the shelf for 7 months when I finally got around to setting it up I found I had a problem with the controller. I sent it back for repair and Paul at Deepgrove sent me a new controller at no charge.Everything is working great. The machine is accurate.
I highly recommend Deepgrove.
Good luck

I thought he didn't warrant "his" controller? Doesn't he mention that somewhere?

You mention that it's accurate, may I ask what you're machining and at what tolerances?

Thanks,
Dave

retinutah
02-16-2009, 06:54 PM
Hi Dave;
I'm machining primarily C3 carbon for a series of small molds that I'm making.
The machine is holding +/- .0005 I'm using a toolmakers microscope for inspection.
I'm an old retired moldmaker (40+ years in the trade) doing a little work to supplement my income so everything I buy is very important to me. this machine seems to be working fine.
Bruce

telder4336
02-17-2009, 05:01 AM
I bought the Deepgroove Mill setup and have been very pleased with it as well. I made sure to get the Gecko G540 driver that he now offers with the mill since that is 10 times better than the custom board he sells stock. Nick Carter is a great person to buy from and you won't go wrong there either.

retinutah
02-17-2009, 09:47 AM
Good Morning telder4336
I don't know much about controllers.
The controller that failed was Xylotex based. Paul at Deepgroove mentioned (by email)
that it was the 21 failure of Xylotex based units. He replaced it with a unit based on his new proprietary board
It appears to run smoother then the original unit.
I'll keep you informed about future preformance.
Have a great day
Bruce

Crevice Reamer
02-17-2009, 10:03 AM
Taig warrants the excellent little mill regardless. Your DG1 happiness quotient all depends on what CNC controller you select.

DG1 is a very good deal at $1700 with Gecko G540 controller. Full warranty from Taig/Gecko.

DG1 is a BAD deal at $1500 with his house controller. Many problems and NO warranty or support with HIS controller.

CR.

kentdesautel
02-17-2009, 12:42 PM
I have purchased several systems from Paul at Deepgroove and he has always been great to work with. There is no question in my mind that he is very, very knowledgable on CNC systems. Paul helped me convert an older CNC machine with all new motors and a custom made controller and it is working like a charm.

MechanoMan
02-17-2009, 04:23 PM
Rundown on DeepGroove1's "turnkey" CNC Taig mill (http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71130&page=4)

The G540 is a G540 and the Taig is a Taig. So it'll perform as a Taig and G540 would be expected to, which is quite well. The power supply voltage is less than it could be and IMHO the enclosure it's in is not very practical.

At this time I don't see the point, when you could buy a CNC ready mill from Carter Tools, get a G540, and a 48v switching supply from eBay. All it takes is a fair amount of soldering and wire splicing and a box.

He's very clear he does not support his equipment. He provides little more than a post-it note on putting on the steppers so you're going to have to research on your own how to identify, assemble, and adjust the mill yourself. Mine was not adjusted when sent anyways. Which is not really a big deal, there's this site and webpages showing how to assemble and adjust and you need to learn this anyways, except he's representing it as "turnkey" ready-to-run, not like these other sellers, when it's no different. He does not provide a phone number and is not big on answering emails, and does not even say when to expect shipment.

The problem I had was he sent me the DG1 controller- which is absolute junk. It puts out an amp, max, which isn't right for his 2.8A steppers. More of a problem is there are defects at the core of its microstepping (many of the steps won't actually exist due to the way the controller worked and it actually worsens phase lag and unresolvable stalling problems). There is zero documentation on his controller. Speaking with him, he said a lot of things which indicated lack of knowledge- and a lot of total misinformation- about electronics.

He had no interest at all in exchanging the defective controller. He MADE the controller and won't take it back. He offered to sell me a new G540, for more than it would cost to just buy a new G540 from the website.

telder4336
02-18-2009, 04:24 AM
Rundown on DeepGroove1's "turnkey" CNC Taig mill (http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71130&page=4)

The G540 is a G540 and the Taig is a Taig. So it'll perform as a Taig and G540 would be expected to, which is quite well. The power supply voltage is less than it could be and IMHO the enclosure it's in is not very practical.

At this time I don't see the point, when you could buy a CNC ready mill from Carter Tools, get a G540, and a 48v switching supply from eBay. All it takes is a fair amount of soldering and wire splicing and a box.

He's very clear he does not support his equipment. He provides little more than a post-it note on putting on the steppers so you're going to have to research on your own how to identify, assemble, and adjust the mill yourself. Mine was not adjusted when sent anyways. Which is not really a big deal, there's this site and webpages showing how to assemble and adjust and you need to learn this anyways, except he's representing it as "turnkey" ready-to-run, not like these other sellers, when it's no different. He does not provide a phone number and is not big on answering emails, and does not even say when to expect shipment.

The problem I had was he sent me the DG1 controller- which is absolute junk. It puts out an amp, max, which isn't right for his 2.8A steppers. More of a problem is there are defects at the core of its microstepping (many of the steps won't actually exist due to the way the controller worked and it actually worsens phase lag and unresolvable stalling problems). There is zero documentation on his controller. Speaking with him, he said a lot of things which indicated lack of knowledge- and a lot of total misinformation- about electronics.

He had no interest at all in exchanging the defective controller. He MADE the controller and won't take it back. He offered to sell me a new G540, for more than it would cost to just buy a new G540 from the website.


It is correct that he isn't big on answering his e-mails and there's alot to be desired as far as assembly of the unit and documentation goes. Of course I also made sure to buy my Deepgroove unit with the G540 controller bundled in so I avoided the mess of having to deal with his homebrew controller ;) . If you like Deepgroove's pricing that is great, don't be afraid to buy from him. The G540 controller uses a 36V power supply which is enough to power the motors and controller. Also keep on him about shipping the items out. If you get the rotary table everything comes to you in 3 seperate boxes.

MechanoMan
02-18-2009, 09:16 PM
Well, let's see on the price:
Nick's CNC-ready 2019CR-ER: $1156.00
48v power supply: $60
G540: $299
3 motors ~$120 (from DG1 actually)

So adding the 3x DB9 connectors and putting the supply into an enclosure is running an extra $255. The 36v supply isn't quite as desirable as 48v, (personally I don't like the oversized enclosure), and the communication and service-after-the-sale isn't there like dealing with Nick.

I mean it's not a "ripoff", it's a fine setup, but the price is not a "deal" per se and I'm especially unimpressed by this dealer's performance with my experience.

It IS a deal compared to Nick's $2495 "2019 Full cnc mill with ER Spindle" package option. I don't know why Nick's so expensive in that regard. But Nick's CNC-ready upgrade is not really the important comparison since you could just buy the steppers, G540, and supply so easily.

Crevice Reamer
02-18-2009, 09:48 PM
Well, let's see on the price:
Nick's CNC-ready 2019CR-ER: $1156.00
48v power supply: $60
G540: $299
3 motors ~$120 (from DG1 actually)

So adding the 3x DB9 connectors and putting the supply into an enclosure is running an extra $255. The 36v supply isn't quite as desirable as 48v, (personally I don't like the oversized enclosure), and the communication and service-after-the-sale isn't there like dealing with Nick.

I mean it's not a "ripoff", it's a fine setup, but the price is not a "deal" per se and I'm especially unimpressed by this dealer's performance with my experience.

It IS a deal compared to Nick's $2495 "2019 Full cnc mill with ER Spindle" package option. I don't know why Nick's so expensive in that regard. But Nick's CNC-ready upgrade is not really the important comparison since you could just buy the steppers, G540, and supply so easily.

You WILL end up with a better system. You have the skills, so you deserve to save some money.

It IS a deal for those who don't WANT to (Or can't) make their own cables and buy their own components. It's still the most bang for a nearly turnkey CNC mill.

Besides, you won't get away that cheaply. You will have to pay about $50 extra shipping on the multiple purchases, and You still need to buy wire, connectors, a box etc. And if you add the cost of your labor, it just may be a wash.

So I estimate the cost difference will be more like $150, and that's valuing your time at zero.

A businessman who assembles all of this and markets it as a service to the conversion-challenge deserves to make some profit on the deal.

CR.

telder4336
02-19-2009, 01:59 AM
Depgroove is a horrible reseller, especially at support, but the product he sells and the price he sells it at is great AS LONG AS you get the G540 controller box with his setup. If you get the other controller box you are asking for trouble.

lsces
02-19-2009, 04:21 AM
It IS a deal compared to Nick's $2495 "2019 Full cnc mill with ER Spindle" package option. I don't know why Nick's so expensive in that regard. But Nick's CNC-ready upgrade is not really the important comparison since you could just buy the steppers, G540, and supply so easily.

Nick is a Taig 'dealer' so the price comes from Taig ... http://www.taigtools.com/cmill.html
By the time I have them in the UK they are far too pricey, so the likes of the 'deepgrove' kit on ebay attract interest - and sales. But we will still help people out who have bought that route and got stuck with support in the UK ;)

I WILL agree with the comments about 36 -> 48 volt drive. The current stepper drivers I'm working with have an upper limit of 40V so 36 is ideal. But the same motors with a 48 volt supply give reliable operation 20% faster. So the new modules will be 55V and we will run a 48 volt supply.

maxlem
04-27-2009, 02:27 PM
I just got my deepgroove1 machine, I asked for a 48V upgrade (20$). I've yet to find the limits of this thing...

How can I tell when its pushed too hard?

jimbo_style
02-10-2010, 05:41 PM
I bought a cnc mill from Paul at Deepgroove over a year ago, and have done significant machining with it since. While being a full time student, I've paid off the machine completely by doing contract work, as well as some personal projects I bought the machine for in the first place. Here's a quick rundown of my experience:

-I bought Paul's custom controller (before he started selling Geckos) and I haven't have any problems with it
-The taig is a great machine on and deepgroove is a great turnkey cnc for the price
-There are certain limitations basically inheirant with any machine this size, such as having to take very light cuts (no more than 2mm in aluminum) as well as being limited to softer metals in general (MAX mild steel...) However, if you build yourself a flood cooling setup like I did, you can push those limits a bit further.

I hope that helps,
Gavin

Jeff-Birt
02-11-2010, 09:43 AM
-There are certain limitations basically inheirant with any machine this size, such as having to take very light cuts (no more than 2mm in aluminum) as well as being limited to softer metals in general (MAX mild steel...) However, if you build yourself a flood cooling setup like I did, you can push those limits a bit further.

You can cut almost any material on a Taig, you just need to use the right feeds/speeds and tooling for the job. I did this video a month or so ago: YouTube- 30 IPM in .375 AL.AVI, I was doing some feed/speed testing on aluminum. In this test I was cutting at 30 IPM ramping down into the cut taking about 0.010" off per pass (and the cutter was not all that sharp). Further testing with a new cutter showed that I could do around 0.020"/pass at 30 IPM with full engagement of the tool. If the pocket were large enough the inside could be done a bit more aggressively as you would not have full tool engagement. The trick is to keep in mind what type of cutting works best on a bench top machine.

awetmore
02-11-2010, 10:53 AM
What are you using to hold the block off of the table there? I was just looking for good thin material to act as supports or parallels.

ee_t
02-11-2010, 05:56 PM
What are you using to hold the block off of the table there? I was just looking for good thin material to act as supports or parallels.

You can see it at the end, appears to be a piece of acrylic sheet.

Jeff-Birt
02-11-2010, 06:03 PM
Yeah, it is just a sheet of ~0.060 acrylic.

themedulla
02-14-2010, 07:46 PM
Hi Kevin,

Welcome to the boards.

A friend of mine got about 75% of the way through an RV-8 and I had another friend with a 6A that gets flown daily. Beautiful planes and pretty fast for the investment!

Anyway, you might want to make sure the work envelope is going to be big enough for what you want. The taig envelope is really for small stuff (which can be a great help when putting together your RV - especially the instrument cluster, etc). Remember that some of the envelope is taken up by fixtures.

I purchased a Taig CNC from deepgroove and it has worked great for me. I bought the one with Gecko drivers, which I would recommend (I think they are better than the xylotex). It shipped quickly. I haven't really asked for any after sale support, so I can't comment on that. I put the machine together and was making chips in less than a day.

I have also heard great things about Nick Carter.

Just make sure the machine is right for what you want.

imsol8
02-16-2010, 04:34 PM
We originally purchased a used deepgroove1 mill on ebay.
The controller started having trouble and contacted deepgroove1 directly rather then post a question on cnc zone. Deepgroove1 helped use resolve the software setup issues and helped tune the machine. A year passed by and the xylotex control failed. We needed to get the machine up and going.
Once again we contacted deepgroove1 and he had a gecko based controller shipped the next day. We followed the setup info on his website and we were making parts again. Hats off to deepgroove1!