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DeWalt58
07-04-2007, 09:25 AM
Its been a year now into my second CNC machine. Picked Joe's machine for its looks and style, Thanks Joe for a great looking machine!!!. My first being a much modified "PipeDream", it was good for learning on but not the end product for me. Besides I got the CNC BUG!! and can't stop building em!!! LOL So far have got the Z-axis about 99% finished, finished all the skate last weekend. Got all my motors Keling KL23H286-20-8B 425 oz/in. Done built and running Dave's New HobbyCNCPRO 3 axis board. Made my own dumpster nuts out of PVC for 1/2" threaded rod on my HF 7x10 Lathe and HF mini mill, yep, I had to have the lathe and mill, even if I don't have the room for em. I already have Mach3 and SheetCam and use em constantly to make parts for Joe's mill, great programs!! So far the investment has been small for me, trying to keep cost down and maxamize fun. Its a great hobby to be in!! I love doing it all myself but do admit that sometimes it cost more to buy the tooling then to buy the part already made, but then if I need another I can make it!! The Hitachi M12VC router is fantastic! A very quite running machine, I couldn't resist the urge to mount it on the the old "PipeDream" and run it...:) Got lots of pictures which I'll post of all my ramblings and failures for those who like to read what others are doing, like me. So stayed tuned for more as time permits, I still work the day job!!!:wave:

Cheers
dewalt58

DeWalt58
07-04-2007, 11:18 AM
This is how I made my own Bearing retainer nuts. Got the 1/2" x 10" Acme tapered tap at Enco, drilled my tap handle to take a 1/2" dia. solid shaft of brass. Then made shaft holders and bearing holder on my old CNC mill out of PVC scraps that I have. Attached the whole mess to a junk counter top I had, clamped it in a wood vice and started tapping!!:) The PVC plugs were cut from a junk chunk of 1-1/4" dia. PVC rod with a hacksaw, turned and drilled on my HF lathe to size then counter sunk, drilled and milled on my HF mini mill. I think they will work just fine and the price of em was free, even tho the tap cost around 65 dollars. I plan to tap my own floating nuts for acme rod so tap will get used again!! You MUST use a tap fixture to tap these things, I tried it without and it wobbles on acme rod, just hard to get a straight tap by hand. And be sure to run tap all the way thru and out the bottom, DO NOT reverse tap to remove.

Cheers
dewalt58

DeWalt58
07-04-2007, 11:36 AM
The Mill room.....where I make it all happen!!! Now where did I put that table saw? :confused: LOL

Cheers
dewalt58

joecnc2006
07-04-2007, 12:12 PM
Very good job on the parts so far, looks like you have the tools to make it happen for you. the tapped clamps look great.

On space, where there is a will there is a way. I started in a 8'x10' utility room which had the washer and dryer, plus all the tools, table saw, drill press etc. and my cnc machine, it was tight.


Joe

DeWalt58
07-04-2007, 02:41 PM
Thanks Joe for the comment on my bearing nuts. I must say your drawings you made inspired me to do all this. And yes where there is a will there is a way!! My engineering computer is in front room and above it on wall pin board are printouts of most of your drawings. After seeing Mike H.'s layout of his version, which is exactly like how I'm doing it, had to start a tread here and share my mods with all. Maybe give inspiration to someone else to start building one. I really enjoyed building my first machine and now find that all the info and practical know how pays huge dividends in knowledge towards building another from scratch with what ever I can find or drag home. Built the "PipeDream" machine, my first CNC, that way. Picture of my "PipeDream" is attached with Hitachi router clamped to it. She's only limited by the shaking she does at speeds!!! LOL

Cheers
dewalt58

DeWalt58
07-14-2007, 06:42 AM
When I was at Lowes one time a few months back, I found 4 ea. 6'-3/4 size gas pipe that was perfectly smooth, looked like it was polished and blued. Got em for the X-axis rails :D and now that I'm ready for Y-axis building phase, wouldn't you know it, no nice stuff around like I found before :mad: , so bought the normal badly painted 36"x3/4 gas pipe, with plans of smoothing it up some. The plan is to use end caps with a 5/16" hole drilled in the center and skate bearings mounted on em and rotated with a sewing machine motor I have. So far have got one gas pipe end cap done, plan looks good!! Had to turn a flat spot on end cap in my small 9x10 HF lathe, chuck was bearly large enough to hold it using outside jaws, and drill a 5/16" hole dead center. This weekend will do the other one, make the skate bearing holders and alum pully for motor belt, time permitting.

Cheers
dewalt58

DeWalt58
07-14-2007, 10:16 AM
Just finished the second 3/4 gas pipe end cap and alum pully for the 5/16" threaded rod. Just need to make the bearing mounts and set the whole thing up on a 12" x 48" board, after breakfast, gotta feed the machinist!!:)

Cheers
dewalt58

DeWalt58
07-22-2007, 07:07 AM
Looks like its a manual job from now on, the old PipeDream CNC mill has crashed for the second time now. :eek: I tighten it up the last time but this time is a lost cause, my bad design on the Y-axis(chair) . The bolts that hold the bearings are too long and keep bending, even at 5/16" bolts, and it won't handle the power, weight of the router. Just way too much vibration going on with it. So will go manual on cutting out parts for Joes 2005. The PipeDream crashed while I was making the PVC bearing holders for the pipe rotator, so had to come up with another idea. Will use the bearings I bought for Joes 2005 which have a 1/2" ID, because I made extra PVC bearing holders that where too big, all I have to do is make sleeves for the 5/16" threaded rod to fit inside the bearings. That way I don't have to redrill everything to 1/2" and buy 1/2" threaded rod. Have some 5/16" threaded rod already on hand. So found some 1/2" rod and did some lathe work on it...presto!! 2 each sleeves complete. All this, just to clean up two 36"-3/4" gas pipes...what a pain!! Just need to drill bearing holder blocks, cut some rod and mount all the parts on a board unless something else goes wrong.

Cheers
dewalt58

DeWalt58
07-22-2007, 08:32 PM
Changed the design on the pipe rotator, made a bigger pulley so speed is not at critical mass destruction!! Those little sewing machine motors can turn some RPM!! Can go full speed now while sanding pipe, no real need for motor speed control unit. Soooo thats two weekends spent building a pipe rotator and not building real parts for Joe's mill, but its all a learning experience and part of the fun. Once the pipes are done I'am not going to paint them, instead I'll put some gun blueing on them. That will turn them black and keep them from rusting and keep the surface smooth.

Cheers
dewalt58

DeWalt58
08-02-2007, 05:00 PM
Had some time and ambition so thought I'd polish a Y-pipe and see how it looked. Took about an hour and a couple sheets of 220/400 sandpaper, applied Perma Blue with an acid brush, then wiped off with a wet rag and polished it with a dry rag. Very easy to do and smooth!!

Cheers
dewalt58

DeWalt58
08-04-2007, 08:18 AM
Thought I'd post pictures of the Keling stepper motors that I'll be using for Joes 2006 R2, They are KL23H286-20-8B, 3A, 8 wire, 425 oz. rated. I'll be running them in a 6 wire unipolar mode with a HobbyCNC Pro 4-Axis board using a 24VDC switching power supply. Except for the motors, all else has been used on my old PipeDream design so electronics are proven to work, no unknowns in that area. Software will be Mach3 with the Blue Screen, the best!!!!

Cheers
dewalt58

gacrwell
08-05-2007, 01:04 AM
Thought I'd post pictures of the Keling stepper motors that I'll be using for Joes 2006 R2, They are KL23H286-20-8B, 3A, 8 wire, 425 oz. rated. I'll be running them in a 6 wire unipolar mode with a HobbyCNC Pro 4-Axis board using a 24VDC switching power supply.
dewalt58

Same motors and controller I have - seems to work well, but I've only run the Y-axis and that only 'in air'. I've got 38 volts on mine, and it seemed to make a significant difference just going from 35 to 38 volts, but I don't know - there may have been some other factor involved.

Gary

DeWalt58
08-05-2007, 07:03 AM
Thanks for the info Gary, I will increase the voltage later on but for now just going to use what I got, I'm sure theres a sweet spot where VDC, speed and harmonics will all click together. It will be fun later after I get more built to do a lot of testing, thats whats kinda neat about DIY, the way we can change things here and there, fine tuning em so to speak. I already have the Acme 1/2x10 single start rods but do note that some of the guys are going to 2 start for more speed and I might do that later also, depends on the bank account...LOL Sure wish I had a shop to work in here, an Air Conditioned shop, we're having a heat wave down here in the south, not very conductive to me to drag table saw out and cut wood in 105 degree heat index right now. I also want to test more making the floating nuts out of Delrin for the Acme rods, looking for less backlash in em. Got a couple designs in my head, just something I can make myself with out buying them, will post results when I perfect it.

Cheers
dewalt58

cnclee
08-31-2007, 10:55 PM
Looking good Dewalt58!! Just wanted to post a reply and say thanks for all the info you've gave me. Talking to you at work has made me more interested and ambitious about building my own. Thanks

Lee

DeWalt58
09-02-2007, 01:28 AM
Thanks Lee for the comments, I do enjoy our talks about these machines, heres the new acme threaded rod nut I finished tonight , its adjustable as far as backlash, I hope. Just a small amount of tighting on the screws goes along way to wards griping acme screw. I'll use this one on the Y-axis and make another for Z-axis.

DeWalt58
09-09-2007, 04:59 PM
Finished making my own motor coupler this weekend out of brass. Was some hairy milling on the HF mill but I won!! I'll put this one on the Z-Axis and make more later. Slow progress but I'm getting there. No backlash in coupler, very tight fit.

Cheers
dewalt58

joecnc2006
09-13-2007, 11:18 AM
Very nice work....

DeWalt58
09-13-2007, 03:42 PM
:banana: Thanks Joe for the comment....I really love this DIY thing...its the CATS Meow!! That one coupler took me about eight hours of work!!....most of my junk stuff starts out square!! Re-cycling does work for me!

Cheers!!

:banana: dewalt58 :banana:

DeWalt58
09-13-2007, 11:50 PM
My new design for Z-axis drive nut mount made out of 5/8" Alum.

Cheers
dewalt58

DeWalt58
09-15-2007, 11:32 PM
Been working on my new Z-axis acme drive nut mount today, almost done with it, just a few more holes to drill and some machine work on side supports which are not in pictures yet.

Cheers
dewalt58

vcooney
09-16-2007, 01:07 AM
Hey Dewalt58,
Nice work on the Z axis.
Did you use a u-bolt for the outer bearing support?

Vince

DeWalt58
09-16-2007, 02:01 AM
Yes, same as Joe calls for in his plans, 5/16" threads x 2" wide x 4-1/2" or 4-5/8 long, found them at Ace Hardware, 4ea. @ $7.98 with tax, total price. Just cut the length after fiting to drill rods. In keeping the cost way down I used what I had laying around here, .840" PVC and 1/2" PVC discards, MDF shelving discards (12" wide) from a Lowes remodeling their store. Got 2 ea. 10'x 12" MDF from them for $1.00 total. I was just at the right place at the right time!! Amazing what gets trashed!! I guess the total cost to build my Z-axis head is alittle less then 20 dollars minus acme rod and stepper motor. The bearing retainers are homemade as is the acme nut, made from discards. The bearing plates are made from a bread board from Wall-Mart. I know it takes longer to build this way, but I do enjoy the challange of it. Just about every weekend I build a part and keep my eye open for roadkill that might be of use to build with!!..LOL

Cheers
dewalt58

vcooney
09-16-2007, 02:14 AM
keep my eye open for roadkill that might be of use to build with!!..LOL

That is a good way of putting a label on scrap.
Thanks
Vince

DeWalt58
09-16-2007, 02:37 PM
Finished machineing support walls for Z-axis acme nut drive holder and doing a test fit of acme screw, checked for binding and alinement. Love that 6"-15/16" head travel movement!! Close enough for Gov work as they say! Will have the support walls welded at work tomorrow. It's a very solid feeling machine so far and heavy!! I'm thinking weight for Z-axis when done will be between 30-40 lbs., I'll weigh it when finished. Next weekend I'll start the Z-axis stepper motor supports, will be making them out of 1/2" thick alum plates and get motor hooked up.

Cheers
dewalt58

acondit
09-16-2007, 05:57 PM
AJ,

I took a look at your thread. It's looking good. I may steal a couple ideas.
Thanks for the heads up on my website.

Alan

DeWalt58
09-16-2007, 08:55 PM
Not a problem Alan, I might steal a couple from you...LOL For those interested, Alan has a web site with alot of interesting photo's of his builds:

http://alansmachineworks.com/index.php

Cheers
dewalt58

cnclee
09-21-2007, 07:12 PM
Nice work on the Z-Axis drive nut mount!!....Hopefully I'll get something done on my build this weekend! I think that template I made today will work out great?!? I'll send some pics of my progress...if any. Later

Lee

DeWalt58
09-22-2007, 09:07 PM
Not much doing on building the mill so far this weekend, but did make a DIY tool for building alum bearing plates and motor plates on my mini-lathe. Kept thinking about the heat generated by those motors and wanted some alum under them to help suck up heat, but the problem was how to cut pocket for motor flange. I have very few metal cutting tools and that flange could be cut on my small mini-lathe, so I made a back plate adapter to fit into my 3" 3 jaw chuck to hold a flat alum plate while I cut a pocket. Turning a large slug of alum was out of the question so I remembered that I had an old gas valve wrench I never use, cast alum it be, and just the right shape. Hack saw to the rescue and a little turning and milling, presto, done deal!! It now has a better job to do then lay in my tool box. Now I can make my motor mounts out of alum!!

Cheers
dewalt58

DeWalt58
09-23-2007, 05:08 PM
Finished first motor mounting plate of .250" alum this weekend, just two more to go then side plates will be made.

Cheers
dewalt58

joecnc2006
09-24-2007, 03:34 PM
Good idea on the mounting plate to fit into the machine.

Joe

DeWalt58
09-30-2007, 06:21 PM
Very little progress this weekend on alum mount. Did get cut out made in one side as best I could and fitted togeather for photos. Its a solid little beast to say the least, might be a tad overkill on my part!! But it'll last a life time. Those sides are 1/2" alum bolted to 1/4" base plates with 10-24 SHCS, finial assembly on the Z-box will be with Loctight Blue.

Cheers
dewalt58

bp092
09-30-2007, 08:38 PM
That looks sweet. Nice work

vcooney
09-30-2007, 11:44 PM
Dewalt...
Is there a bearing at the 1/4 face plate followed by a clamp?

Vince

DeWalt58
10-01-2007, 05:24 AM
Yes Vince theres a bearing seated in the 1/4" plate with a retainer nut above it, granted its not very deeply seated but enough to hold it in place. Very tightly packed unit.

Cheers
dewalt58

DeWalt58
10-07-2007, 11:51 AM
Time for weekend up-date to my build log! Been working on the Z-axis..(never ending story here)l...got the thing glued togeather with the help of a rubber hammer...I sure made it tight!!LOL Cut the (4ea.)1/4"-20 cross bolts and installed them till glue dries, made the two back supports this morning that I never made and glued them on. Primed with Kilz where it needed it after sanding the whole thing, in a few will spray can it gloss white...since I had a couple cans handy, then tonight will assemble it again with all the parts, motor, etc... and adjust it.

Cheers
dewalt58

DeWalt58
10-07-2007, 01:00 PM
Painting Z-axis in progress!! Don't mind the messy shop floor, haven't swept it lately!!LOL

Cheers
dewalt58

joecnc2006
10-07-2007, 05:56 PM
hope you do not disturb the neighbors with the rouer noises.

Joe

DeWalt58
10-09-2007, 07:22 PM
I got the 1/2-10 acme screw cut to lenght tonight (with a hand powered hack saw) after getting home from work, and assembled all the parts. Will clear the table and set up computer, PS, etc... Hope to run the Z stepper and check for any binding tomorrow night or before the weekend gets here. Just one step at a time, might as well get the bugs out of each axis as I build it.

Cheers
dewalt58

bp092
10-10-2007, 10:11 PM
looks good Dewalt, keep it up

DeWalt58
10-13-2007, 11:38 AM
It LIVES!!! I fired up the Z-axis this morning....and it runs just fine. Took video of it running, sorry for the not so clear video, I gotta work on that, but posting it anyway:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8808607588904161447&q=joes2006+cnc&total=8&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=3

With the 24VDC power supply, the max I can get is 39 IPM without it stalling, no amount of adjustment to Mach3 config motor tuning seems to change that, its the best it can do unless someone has a better idea. Ran it for almost an hour with no glitches. HobbyCNC Pro3 board, Keling 425oz stepper, Mach3 software. I'm very happy with it!!!

Cheers
dewalt58

DeWalt58
10-13-2007, 12:22 PM
Correction to last post....new Google video at:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3295141170945765861&q=joes2006+cnc&total=8&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=3

Try this one....uploaded new video trying to get a better quality video, didn't seem to improve it much.

Cheers
dewalt58

BobF
10-13-2007, 12:33 PM
DeWalt58,
39IPM seems slow. Of course my machine is not built yet, still waiting on my kit from Joe. I have my hobbyCNC kit built and have run the motors. Just moving air I have no problem running at an indicated speed of 250IPM. I have Mach configured for 1/2 8 2 start Acme as that is what I plan to use in the build. I set the hobbyCNC board for 1/4 steps and Mach for 3200 steps per inch. What settings are your using? How are your motors wired? Is your power supply the one in the hobbyCNC kit?

DeWalt58
10-13-2007, 01:55 PM
Hi Bob,
Cutting air at 250 IPM is not a true test, need a load on motor to know what she stalls at. I'm set for 1/4 steps, 8000 steps per inch ( I'm thinking yours is set wrong) in Mach3, 1/2-10 acme screw. Lets see, if 1 step is 1.8 degrees, then 1/4 of that is .45 degrees, 360 divided by .45 = 800 X 10TPI = 8000 steps per inch for my steup. At 8 TPI its 6400 steps per inch for yours. Unless your TPI is less on a 2 start acme? I think this is about it for this setup, weight (approx. 20 lbs) and friction is taking it toll on things, its a trade off, I want the weight for stability, and friction to take care of backlash. I will go with more voltage later on, the max the HobbyCNC Pro board can take, which is 42VDC. My power supply is a MeanWell switching unit, rated at 24VDC, 10 amps. I like regulated power supplys, power company lines vary alittle here. Oh yeah, almost forgot, to have Mach3 do the steps per inch for you when your machine is built, go to settings screen, and do axis calibration setup, it will ask you how far you want to move, then you tell it how far it did move, it will adjust the steps per inch automaticly!! Awsome software!! My motors are wired unipolor 6 wire. Mach3 settings are set in Config, motor tuning: Z Axis, steps per= 8000, Velocity=39, Acceleration= 1.4, step pulse=0, dir pulse=0. Thats a stable setting with the load on my motor without stalling. Changing the Acceleration won't change stall, just changes ramping up to speed. Hope this helps you.

Cheers
dewalt58

darkfred
10-13-2007, 02:23 PM
Oh yeah, almost forgot, to have Mach3 do the steps per inch for you when your machine is built, go to settings screen, and do axis calibration setup, it will ask you how far you want to move, then you tell it how far it did move, it will adjust the steps per inch automaticly!!

If you do this keep in mind that hand measurements will have significantly more error than the TPI rating of your lead screw. Unless you can measure at a resolution higher than the error rating of your leadscrew (.004in/ft on mine i believe). Obviously you would want to measure the largest line possible to reduce the error, even so i don't think you can get within an order of magnitude close to the lead screw accuracy.

DeWalt58
10-13-2007, 02:46 PM
Yeppers Darkfred!! And even measuring the longest line won't account for varances along the threaded rod. Past work done has told me to cut junk wood first then measure the pocket hole and adjust for the size I want, if I wanted a perfect fit. It changes all over the place, you get what you pay for in a threaded rod. And mines an Enco cheapie!! Don't expect .0001 measurements from 1" to 6'. But hey! this is wood butchering we're talking about here, not aerospace machine work!!LOL
And BOB!! Your right at 3200 steps per inch!!! Acme 1/2-8 2 start is 4 threads per inch, had to look that up..dah....LOL I'll be interested in what you do get for IPM with that thing!!

Cheers
dewalt58

BobF
10-13-2007, 04:11 PM
I guess speed is not a big deal on the Z axis anyway, except maybe for peck drilling. Maybe the voltage is the issue. I have no real experience yet, just what I have read on here.

DeWalt58
10-13-2007, 05:17 PM
But speed would be nice to get from one end of that long table to the other!!..:)

Cheers
dewalt58

BobF
10-13-2007, 10:02 PM
One last bit. If you look at the spec on the Keling motors, they list 6V and 2A in unipolar (hobbyCNC board is unipolar). Look at the hobbyCNC 305ounce motors they have 2 versions. The 4.2V 3A version has a comment that says more speed over the 6V 2A version. The 2A version has nearly identical spec as the Keling and Joe told me the 305 would give 425ounce in bipolar mode so I think these motors are almost the same as Keling.

DeWalt58
10-14-2007, 12:34 AM
Bob, check out this PDF file on motors, it has all the info, might be of some help. I got unipolar because thats what I've been using since I started this hobby, not sure about the advantages of it over bipolar if any. Its just what I'm geared up for. And the Keling 425 oz. motors were the same price I paid for the 125 oz motors I bought a couple years ago that I used on my old cnc mill with the HobbyCNC Pro3. The speed I'm getting is still a lot better from what I was getting on my old mill...14 IPM pushing the Hitachi router on 1/4-20 hardware store threaded rod. So I'm not complaining!!..LOL

Cheers
dewalt58

BobF
10-14-2007, 12:05 PM
Thanks for the document DeWalt58. This is great read and explains a lot about step motors. Now I see where Joe gets the 425. 425 * 60% = 305 the rating with a unipolar driver like the hobbyCNC. I also see why the lower inductance motor is preferred for higher speed and why they like higher voltage drivers.
After reading this it looks like the best way to achieve higher speed is to either change to a multistart ACME, raise the voltage of the power supply, or you could choose a different stepper. It is also much more apparent why you need to match the driver to the motor.
This is a great animation of how a stepper works if you haven't seen it.
http://nanotec.de/page_static__schrittmotor_animation__en.html
(edit) 305 * 1.4 = 425. The other way as above is about 255, not 305.

DeWalt58
10-14-2007, 12:54 PM
Thanks Bob for the anime of the motor, yes I see your point on the motors now.....oh well, I got what I got....after running the Z for awhile I have gotten it up to 45 IPM, but once the lube gets thin on the threaded rod its starts to make noise....its the nylon or what ever it is that I made the nut out of making the noise. Might have to make it out of Delrin later, but for now must move on to the Y axis and start building it. Keep me posted on how yours comes out.

Cheers
dewalt58

DeWalt58
10-14-2007, 08:42 PM
Just weighed my completed Z-axis with router, Y-axis bearings...etc
The grand total is 39 lbs. 6.5 oz. Thats what the Y-axis will be pushing.

Cheers
dewalt58

bp092
10-14-2007, 09:21 PM
weighs a lot!

joecnc2006
10-14-2007, 10:36 PM
Dont forget the weight of the lead screw which will have to be turned by the motor also.

Joe

DeWalt58
11-05-2007, 07:09 PM
Got to thinking about that speed of 40 IPM on my newly built Z axis with 24V power supply, 1/2-10 acme and decided to build a bigger power supply. Had an old servo controler which has a 28V 8A tranny in it plus a couple of 16,000uf/50V caps, so did a little canibilizing of parts from it. Ordered a bridge rectifer and bleed resister from mouser and now building it. Will post results when done.

Cheers
dewalt58

BobF
11-05-2007, 07:31 PM
Go for it! DeWalt58!
That sure looks like a bridge rectifier in the picture (the box with the 4 spade connectors facing up).

DeWalt58
11-06-2007, 06:28 PM
Yeppers!! Bob, thats a real honest to goodness 35A 600V rectifier, cost a whole $3.58 at Mouser, and that gold colored thing is the bleed resistor 2k ohms at 10 watts, it cost $2.60 at Mouser. Makes my power supply cost a total of $15.45 (shipping cost $9.27). Can't beat that for cost, good thing I save old parts. The box I'm building it all in was a freeby too....came from a junked out film developer, got all the fuse holder from it and alot of other parts. Made a power supply drawing last sunday morn, enclosed it here for those interested, the transformer is a double winding type, can go 115VAC or 220VAC on primary and double on the output side also, 4A each side on output. Hopeing to finished building it this coming weekend, got alot of holes to drill in that steel box to mount everything. Sure hope it works out good.

Cheers
dewalt58

DeWalt58
11-10-2007, 01:52 PM
I completed power supply with the 28VAC transformer this morning and applied power to it. She reads 41.5VDC on output....thats a shade too HOT for safety sake to be used on the HobbyCNC Pro board which has a MAX of 42VDC. Any line voltage spike will take it out, so guess I'll bite the bullet and order a 24VAC tranny and play it safe. Sure would hate to have to build another driver board. So if anybody has any ideas of building from my diagram using a 28VAC transformer, think about it carefully!!!!! So when I get a new 24VAC tranny I'll just drop it in place and she'll be ready to go, so thats much is done. The bleed resistor works great, slow....so very slow...maybe 10 Min's or more to bleed them down but it works. So a word of warning with HobbyCNC boards, don't undo your power wires till the caps are bleed down to zero, give em time.

Cheers
dewalt58

DeWalt58
11-14-2007, 07:26 PM
Arrived home tonight and UPS had dropped off an 8 lb. transformer on my door step....So here we go again.....now to find some 14 ga. wire (Black & Red) and redo this monster. Hopefully this weekend.

Cheers
dewalt58

DeWalt58
11-18-2007, 07:34 PM
Ok, now we're cookin!! New transformer is in and voltage reads 35.72 VDC. Thats a safe voltage for the HobbyCNC Pro driver board. Wires are changed to 12 AWG on DC side of things, all I could find in my scraps of wire, did find a Red wire but no black, so its green, bleed resisror is blue, will just have to do with those colors. Will do speed test with this new higher voltage (old was 24 VDC) some other day.

Cheers
dewalt58

DeWalt58
11-19-2007, 11:03 AM
The Z-Axis test with New power supply voltage of 35 VDC was a complete success, was able to reach a good 70 IPM during a program run, more was possible but as soon as the lube wore thin on the acme rod she would chatter and stall in jog mode due to RPM of acme rod. I might have a problem with the home made drive nut, the material its made from may be rubbing off the lube, will try Delrin later on but for now its a go. Ran a program for about 30 Min's, no great amount of heat on stepper motor noted, alum heat sinks doing their job great, power supply pulling about 3.4 amps at 110 VAC with a steady 35 VDC output. That 1/2-10 acme rod was spinning its heart out, I can see problems ahead with the X-Axis with its long drive screw, might be better later for me to change to the new 1/2-8, 2 start, just to keep the rev's down so it won't chatter. It was well worth the cost of building the new power supply for the increase in RPM/power to the stepper, the cost of new acme rods come at a much higher price, but I'm sure they are are well worth it for a better running machine.

Cheers
dewalt58

TCGliderguy
11-20-2007, 09:34 AM
DeWalt.... Congratulations, you win the "Mad Scientist" prize with that picture. I thought I had it locked up, but you have out done me!.... I am not worthy...... :-(

-Taylor

DeWalt58
11-20-2007, 06:00 PM
I'm rolling on the floor laughing with that one Taylor!! Thanks!! I've got to get Igor to clean up in there!! But, he won't come down off the roof, he's playing with his lightning rods again!!..LOL Yep, amazing what we can cram into a 10'x10' room as the years go by!:)

Cheers
dewalt58

DeWalt58
11-28-2007, 06:21 PM
Well, I went and did it, ordered the 1/2-8, 2 start acme rods fro McMaster Carr and 3 anti-backlash nuts to match em from Dumpster. Got it all delivered today so looks like a busy weekend for me. First thing is to make a TAP from a short length of the 1/2-8 acme rod, so I can make my own retainer nuts again....I should a pro at this by now....LOL, gotta save some money some where here. Special thanks to Dave for Tap info. Will post results here of Tap and speed test when complete!!

Cheers
dewalt58

DeWalt58
12-15-2007, 10:29 AM
Installed the McMaster-Carr Acme rod 1/2-8 (2 start) and tested it in the Z-axis. First off, I had the same problem as Bobf with the stalling from idle, so went from 1/4 steps to 1/2 steps, idle current reduction OFF on Hobby-Pro board. Just a very slight hic-cup when it starts from idle now, very small, can live with it. Jog rate now at 100 IPM, reliable jog rate, no weird noises like harmonics, anything above that starts making noise on down stroke of Z-axis, like a harmonic noise, up stroke is fine. Did have to sand down the acme rod a little to get bearings to fit on both ends and a little file work after cutting with hacksaw to length. Also installed the New Dumpster anti-backlash leadnut and thread clamp for 1/2-8 (2 start). Other then that install went in easy. So the bottom line is, I went from a jog rate of 70 IPM to 100 IPM and lowered the RPM on acme rod. Making a tap from the acme rod is still in limbo, I ended up giving it to a buddy in the tool room to look at, I dulled two 3/16 HSS end mills to cut one slot down the side, that 4140 alloy which the rod is made from is hard stuff. Haven't heard back from buddy yet.

Glidergider
12-15-2007, 10:38 AM
Wow,
Who would have thought that MMC rod would be so hard. I wonder if a slot cutter would get you the grooves you're looking for?

DeWalt58
12-15-2007, 10:54 AM
Not sure dave, all I know is its hard stuff, alot harder then Enco acme rods. I can tell that from just cutting it with a hacksaw!!! Maybe carbide mill with cooling fluid will do it. I'm just not set up for it. Don't have the proper cutting stone either for it here.

DeWalt58
01-12-2008, 10:52 PM
Been slow going here, not getting alot done on machine. Started the Y-Axis construction, have got most parts for the Y cut, just need my ply sides cut. The pipes will be bolted to top and bottom plate with retaining rails glued up against pipe.

Cheers
dewalt58

DeWalt58
01-23-2008, 10:47 AM
Well, now that the plans for Joe's New 4x4 are coming out this Friday (I hope)...I'll be switching over to it. Ordered my 80/20 yesterday and the flange bearings this morning. The Z-axis I built for the 2006 machine has served me well as a test bed so all is not lost there, I learned a lot from it. But the allure of the 4x4 has got me!! Bigger and Better!!! In the mean time I'm working on a new resonance damper design that I heard about in the HobbyCnc group and on here. I thank SJH, fixittt, and others for their work on this for all of us. If your having problems with resonance check out this thread, it just might be what your needing!! So far I have three steel slugs made of the nine needed, still turning the others on my lathe. The alum part, I haven't started yet. The blueprint you see here that I made is not complete but gives an idea of how I am making it. Its a prototype for now, no guarantees it will work but alot of fun machining it.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32284

Cheers
dewalt58

DeWalt58
02-10-2008, 01:06 PM
Been working on the Damper....here's what I got so far. Had to adapt a poor mans indexer from a laser transit head for the mill to mark off 40 degrees, would help to have a real indexer for this. The blue print I made is in error I found out....holes in alum are too big!! Should only be about .040" bigger then steel slugs, so I milled the holes at .500" and will turn down the slugs to .460" for a losse fit. More pictures coming today as I progress.

Cheers
AL.........

DeWalt58
02-10-2008, 05:45 PM
Heres the damper so far, just finished turning the hub down, still need to return slugs so they are a loose fit, then make cover plates and hub attachment.

Cheers
AL

DeWalt58
02-10-2008, 06:48 PM
Size of the rattler on a nema23 motor...

AL.........

Jason Marsha
02-10-2008, 10:16 PM
Looks good so far.

Jason

DeWalt58
03-02-2008, 11:46 AM
Finished making the Resonate Mini-Damper and must say its a complete success!!! I tested this morning on Joe's 2006 Z-Axis I have made and was able to do 200 IPM on jog rate without resonates. Before all I could do was a reliable 100 IPM. It works great!!! Well worth the fun of machineing it!! Now its back to building my Joe's 4X4 machine, after I clean up the mill room!!!

Cheers
AL

bp092
03-02-2008, 11:51 AM
So are you physically getting less vibration to the tool as it translates down the machine? Looks nice, great work!

DeWalt58
03-02-2008, 12:44 PM
No Brian, this is not for tool vibration, this is for stepper motor resonace only. Have you ever tried to go faster with your stepper, only to have it scream and stop? Well, this helps that problem by getting rid of the motor vibrations due to resonaces of the stepper motor. The link I gave in past post show the effect with videos of before and after and more info on the problem.


http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32284


Cheers
AL

joecnc2006
03-02-2008, 02:20 PM
Excellent work, I need to try some of those out... on the 4x4 I will try to switch from the belt to the Cable below the bed just to see how it work, in hope to use the dampers.

Joe

bp092
03-02-2008, 02:52 PM
Nice work al I remember your video, there was a huge difference in sound. Just wondered if this helped at all in physical difference as in, calming the motor down itself to lower physical vibration from the high speed of the stepper.

DeWalt58
03-02-2008, 03:11 PM
Brian, if anything, the damper will increases the speed of the stepper motor, tool vibration or gantry shakes is another matter. It does help with motor shakes due to its mass but if its that bad I'd look at your coupler alinement. If gantry shaking is going on then it will get worse. I only tested this on the 2006 Z-axis head assembly, which is all I have built of the 2006 machine so I can't say anything else on the machine as a whole unit. And Joe, I'll be trying the cable thingy on the 4X4 machine so as to incorporate the dampers. Got the cable parts ready to go!!

Cheers
AL

bp092
03-02-2008, 03:20 PM
Thanks for the info Al, not much of an issue on the 4x4, just on my 06. Curious on how it works that's all ;)

DeWalt58
03-07-2008, 10:06 PM
Here's a picture of Damper mounted for working on the Z-Axis, yep it even works mounted horizontally.

Cheers
AL

joecnc2006
03-07-2008, 10:08 PM
looks real nice

MackB
03-17-2008, 06:15 PM
I was wondering if anyone had tried to use lead shot instead of the rods in the compartments. I was thinking that the lead shot would absorb a wider range of resonance, and would be to easier to construct if it works. Kind of like a rotational dead-blow hammer.

DeWalt58
03-17-2008, 06:26 PM
It might work, all I can say is give it a "Shot"....I wonder about deformation of the lead over time? Another idea is 1/2" round steel balls, you can get them at Enco very cheap, like a bag of 100 ea. for next to nothing. Then all you'd have to do is drill your hub, cover it and go!!!

Cheers
AL

skibuilder
03-19-2008, 11:29 PM
Hello Al,

Dana here from over at yahoo HCNC. I posted a thank you at that site today, but it got yanked for some reason. So, thanks for your reply over there. Great work you're doing here. I'll definitely consider the damper design if I continue to have problems in that area. I'll also follow your progress here and will be curious to see how your HCNC board mod works out, if you decide to go ahead with it.

I'm building a Joe's version myself, a 24" x 97" acme screw driven unit... with no lead screw whip... so far. I'll post a full build log when I get it fully operational and prettied up. Been working on it for 10 months so far... too many other distractions... oh, yes dear, be right there.

I read your entire log today. Fun reading.

Dana

DeWalt58
03-20-2008, 05:44 AM
Thanks Dana!! Yeah, I know about the distractions...broke water pipes, day job...etc...LOL Plus I get on these side tracks leading to other things, like dampers...LOL But it all part of the fun. Right now I'm building a bracket to hold my indicator so I can indicate center on my rotory table so I can make more dampers, always something to make!!! Not sure when I'll get around to board mod...so much to do so little time. Will be looking for your build log on the Joe's 2006. Hope to get started on the 4X4 build myself soon, well, gotta run, keep in touch!!!

AL