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twistedfuse
06-28-2007, 10:27 AM
Hello All,

Firstly let me say i hope i have posted this is the right place, not too sure. And secondly what a wonderful site this is. For years now i have been thinking about building one and this year i finally bit the bullet and bought the Hobby CNC 4axis 300oz kit. All my circuitry is now built, all i can say is "wow" and i havent even built the machine yet. The main reason for electronics first was that i wanted to commit to building this machine and it is definately a good way to do it. My machine will have rails of 932mm (full rail that supplier had) for the main x axis, 700mm for the Yaxis and 280 for the z axis. And i am hoping to build a cutting area of approx 700x500x150 so i can get into model building, PCB manufacture for all my electronic projects, sign making and anything else new that i can do of course.

ANyway onto my build and problems so far. I have had best luck this week, secured old stock from a supplier of proper linear bearings for dirt cheap. They are 35mm linear rails, bulky and huge but hey, its within my price range, ill just build around them. So luck is on my side and even tho i dont have them yet i have started the frame work for the base. I will post pictures when i feel its at a good stage. The frame will be 40mmx40mmx1.6mm thick. I think most of the machine(gantry as well) will be built somehow with this and 6mm plate aluminum for extra strength.

Next on my bill will be to drill and tap all the holes when i have both the rails and frame together. After that will follow the gantry build and egt 2 axis working then make the final z axis.

My first problem is i have to get some leadscrews/ballscrews. I have a local bloke who has been heaps of help so far and is really nice. He ahs offered me a 5TPI screw for at least my main axis. Now my question is: Because im making circuit boards will this thread pitch be too coarse for the intricate work i need?

I am hoping to have built my complete machine over the course of the holidays i have (next 2 weeks), mostly at night and in the mornings as i work everyday. Well i know it will not be completely finished but at least i would like it to be cutting in 2 weeks. I will probably cheaply go for all thread until i find a good deal on proper screws, then slowly replace anything to get higher accuracy.

Anyway, thats about it for now. Is there anything i should be aware of for my build? Any comments etc.

Thanks in advance,

Daniel

P.S Attached are some quick renderings of my machine. The main one is now outdated as the gantry will be slightly different. New gantry proof of concept is attached tho.

P.P.S If there are any aussies out there willing to sell some leadscrews/ballscrews please email me or post here as i would really like to keep costs down.

Greolt
06-28-2007, 07:36 PM
Sounds like a good start Daniel.

Those linear rails should do a good job.

Just remember they are only as good as the surface they are fixed to.

Having the rails it is probably worth going for rolled ballscrews and you will have the potential for a pretty good result.

Most Aussies I know get their ballscrews from HomeshopCNC http://www.homeshopcnc.com/index.html

Where in Aus are you?

Greg

twistedfuse
06-28-2007, 08:14 PM
Hello Greg,

Yeah i thought that they'd do the job. Bit of pain figuring out the Y and Z axis as the bearing carts running are something like 110mm long x 70mm wide x 45mm hight(over all with rail). Shouldnt be too hard, just means now that ill only have 1 cart per rail on the z axis and maybe 1 for the y axis. They are huge so im sure they'll take alot of weight. Just need to get the rails now to completely figure it out. As for what they are mounted to, well i changed it to some thick walled aluminum tube still 40x40mm. Might use some extra bracing as well bu ill see.

I was reading the madvac site and it said he used epoxy to fill the top where the rail was running so the lot was nearly 100% flat. Should i do this?

Ultimately i will try for precision ballscrews as like you said, the machien has good bearings and i would like the highest accuracy since i will do pcbs.

As for where i am, i live in Nowra, NSW. About two and a half hours from sydney.

I should post first pictures next week.
Cheers and thanks again, can't wait to have the machine running

Daniel

twistedfuse
07-03-2007, 09:04 AM
Hello Again,

Good news today, after getting my cnc machine frame complete. It came out looking very nice and light as well. I ended up getting it all done with 40mm x40mm Aluminum Tube with 2.5mm thick walls. Very strong.

Next is the linear rails which i am due to get this week sometime(probably thursday) so i will post some pictures of those as well. It will be a tedious night of drilling and tapping the holes for the rails as well as alignment. My mate is awsome again, he has lent me his dial indicator so that will help greatly. Are there any other quick alignment ways to make alignment faster and easier. Im thinking about using some clamps and a laser to get general alignment and put some prssure on it then tap it with a rubber mallet softly to move the rails in alignment with the dial indicator.

I also decided to get some panels/skirting done from my mate with the plasma cnc, that way i can make some simple mounts that will be perfectly aligned for the rail carts and motors etc. Also the sides of the gantry as well as behind both rails will be done as well just to add stiffness and make it more ridgid. Also make it look cooler. lol

Anyway, i will keep you all informed of my progress. Thanks again,
Daniel

twistedfuse
07-04-2007, 09:01 PM
Hello Everyone,

More great news today, finally picked up my rails. In the picture the ones on the right are the 932mm long main rails, left are 700mm rails and the 2 small ones are 300mm. One block from each rail will be removed off the two sets of smaller rails as im sure the 35mm rails will handle the weight.

Now im not sure if im allowed to do this but im here to say if you decided to get some linear rails and dont want to wait around get in contact with a NSK rep as the guy i went through was way beyond helpful. Now im not trying to sell them but just telling you all that i had a great dealing with them (Sydney/Parramatta Branch) and would like to highly recommend them.

Anyway, my excitement has got to me so ive been pushing these things a little bit, doesnt seem to be as smooth as i would have thought but im sure i just have to move them a bit to get them going. Cant wait now, things are really looking forward. Going out today to get some bolts and screws and taps and drills to help with the construction. Im sure it'll be a long night tonight. lol.

Cheers Everyone,
Daniel

P.S If i was going to tap the tube so that i can mount the rails...would i use a drill bit 1mm smaller to drill the hole then tap it or would i use one that is 0.5mm smaller???

Greolt
07-05-2007, 01:04 AM
WOW there pretty beefy rails you have there!!!!

One block per rail will be fine for the Y axis. With the Z azis I would only be using one rail and one block.

It is going to be heaps stronger than your frame anyway.

As far as taping drill size, you need a tapping drill chart. You could find one on the net I'm sure.

When you are picking up your drills, taps, bolts etc. ask about a wall chart with tapping sizes etc. Good thing to have in your shed. :)

I think you will need to consider what material you are going to tap to attach those rails.

2.5 mm aluminium will not be enough thread I reckon. Can you get nuts on the back?

Greg

FPV_GTp
07-05-2007, 04:01 AM
hi


" P.S If i was going to tap the tube so that i can mount the rails...would i use a drill bit 1mm smaller to drill the hole then tap it or would i use one that is 0.5mm smaller???"

some times it is one millimeter differance in diameter between a the hole size and the thread actual outer diameter size but not always the case

Invest in a vernier caliper and measure lowest piont ( minor diameter ) in the thread and the high point ( major diameter ) and subtract the two from each other and this will confirm the actual clearance differance between threads sizes for a specific thread , 1 mm is not always the case. The actaul whole size is the inner minor thread daimeter that you have to drill to cut a correct thread size for a particular bolt thread.

Like Greolt siad 2.5mm is very little material to obtain enough thread for engagemnet. Most likely when you tighten the bolts you will strip the threads you have tapped , specially in alloy.

thread chart UNC Coarse http://www.efunda.com/designstandards/screws/screwunc.cfm

UNF Fine http://www.efunda.com/designstandards/screws/screwunf.cfm

Just curious what did the linear slides and mounting blocks cost you ??

What motherboard and drivers are you going to use ? stepper motors or servo motors ??

cheers

Rodm1954
07-05-2007, 12:49 PM
If you run into trouble with your tapped holes then re-drill with a clearance hole (a drill bit the size of your bolt) right through both sides of the tube. On the inside of the tube drill again with a clearance hole for the nut. Then fix nut from inside the tube onto bolt through rail.
Nice machine by the way.

rustamd
07-05-2007, 06:10 PM
If i remember correctly, to find out drill size you need to substract pitch from diameter. Example: To tap hole for M4x.7 bolt you would get this equestion: 4-.7=3.3

rustamd
07-05-2007, 06:14 PM
Here is very big drill and tap size chart:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drill_and_tap_size_chart

twistedfuse
07-05-2007, 07:59 PM
Hello Everyone,

Thanks for the replys, started to think not many were viewing the thread...lol. I would have still posted tho. As for the tap size i have been thinking about it alot and trying to decided about how i will do it. I was thinking about the nut idea and thought that would be the best but at the time i wasnt sure if tapping the tube would be enough so i thought it would and i was going to do that. The main problem that i came across first was the fact that the clearence hole(Bolt Hole) for my rail is 9mm and i found out there is no such thing as a 9mm tap so i had to get 8mm with 8mm socket head cap screws(will the 8mm give me more of an advantage as it can be slightly adjustable?). I didnt buy them yet as i was unsure and now you all have shown that i should probably put a nut on for extra assurance.

Also will i be able to find 9mm round head bolts to suit? Looking to get some work done tonight/ this weekend. Hoping to have attached the x and y rails by the end of this weekend.

Greolt, you said use 1 rail for my z axis. How would you recommend i do that? I have seen it before but thought if i decided to do aluminum, the off balance would cause something to bind. Am i wrong? As usual i would like less z axis so i can have a larger cutting space. I will be looking to use a die grinder and a dremel with the later mainly just for balsa wood and fine work like PCBs.

FPV_GTp, ill start with the rails. The rails only cost me AU$300. Best thing i did as i was thinking of using skate bearing idea then i just rang around looking for old stock. The guy i dealt with was great and said most only need 15/25mm rails and these werent selling and been around for ages. They cut them to size and he met me halfway to drop them off. Brilliant services. Also got a complete product manual. As for my electronics, im not sure completely what computer i will use but i have already paid for mach 3, and have completely compiled my hobby cnc 4 axis board. Was going to use 2 x axis but i wanted to do rotarty milling later so i will keep the 4th for that. I will post a picture or two of the setup. The motors are 300oz steppers running from the PSU of 29.8v rectified and 8.88A. 2A ea. The black things at the front are stereo connectors, they will be used for the limits/home and tool height indicator and e-stop. I have been mucking around with the electronics learning mach 3 and so on. Really enjoy watching the motors spin under the whim of my finger. lol.

Anyway, thanks for the replies you have helped greatly so far, hope you all can help me through the build and look forward to more suggestions/comments/flames etc about my deisgn. Will post hopefully soon that rails are attached. Just got to find a magnetic base for the dial(wont stick) but i need it since the clamp doesnt fit. lol.

Daniel

P.S The computer i was thinking along the lines of a P4 around 2 GHz. I should be easily able to get one, wanted a laptop but i dont think ill get one for the price i'd like to pay.lol. It will be standalone with all CAD/CAM done on another computer(Dual Core) and transfered with a usb stick. So i just need something fast enough/best for mach 3.

crocky
07-05-2007, 09:06 PM
Hi Daniel,

Looks like it is going pretty good so far :) and they are big rails :)

I have not been to Nowra for about 7 years now and I think from memory it is a nice place.

Bob

twistedfuse
07-07-2007, 05:08 AM
Hello All,

Haven't had a chance yet to do any mounting of the rails. Really starting to get the first cut/drill jitters. The whole alignment thing is really getting me worried. I keep thinking im going to have something out of alignment and it will stuff up the whole thng. I will hopefully get some guitar string tomorrow and use that in conjunction with my monoscope from my telescope to align it and then double check it with the dial indicator. Nervous moments to follow. I am also worried about having one rail below the other and then the whole thing on an angle or something, all the possibilities to go wrong. What would be a good starter point to allow in misalignment to allow...at least to get started???

I hope all goes well. Will try to do something tomorrow. Heres hoping. Thanks for all the support too guys, really sheds some light on these moments.

Cheers,
Daniel

twistedfuse
07-08-2007, 06:39 AM
Hello ALl,

Well finally i pushed past the first cut/drill jitter today. It was raining and misserable so it forced me to start. I didnt get round to the x axis rails yet(Probably should ahve done these first) but at least i started and seem to have a good shot at this working out...so far. Anyway, today it was all sorts of fun and games. I had to travel into town a few times to get little tid bits for the build, like deep sockets and so on. But i got the gantry rails mounted and it feels great. Nice and solid. I ended up using the socket heads and nuts, this way the size of the hole is bigger and allows more alignment corrections, but after tightening the nuts there is no play in the rails so i figure they are secured nice and tight. Checking the distance between the rails with a digital vernier/caliper it measured exactly the same on all points of the rail (Graduations of 0.1mm on the caliper). I will double check it with the dial inicator soon but am confident as it also checked out when measuring the distance between the carts on the rails (yet to remove one from each rail).

Im still worried about the stiffness of the carts as well as the weight of the gantry that will be moved by my 300oz motors. Will i have a problem? I will hopefully have my main rails on tomorrow and will hope to have the gantry attached to the main rails soon as well, but i will have to try and catch up with the bloke with the plasma and see if he'd be able to make up the mounting plates and skirting and get them soon, and maybe the drive screw as well. Man he is a brilliant guy, and his machine looks fantastic. Hope mine comes out at least the tiny bit like his.

Anyway, im sure ill post again soon, might try and CAD up an idea for the router mount with 1 rail and post it to see what you all think. Hope to be cutting soon, and plotting a little bit sooner. lol.

Cheers,
Daniel

P.S Nowra is a lovely place, a small town with not overly alot to do(Until my router is built) but its starting to grow.

P.P.S Also started thinking today that i might make the table removable and have one for a vacuum table and one as a normal table and one as a flood coolant table. Just an idea for now.

twistedfuse
07-08-2007, 09:15 PM
Hello Again,

Well this morning has been good to me, i got around to attaching the rails to the base frame. When i took these rails out of the package they were full of grease/lube and it seemed to make a large difference in the running of the rails, however they still seem to be stiff and like i said that plus the weight of the gantry are really making me nervous as to the ability of the steppers. I spose if worse come to worse, i can order larger ones or even just chuck the idea of the rotary axis and have 2 running the gantry, that might help but i'd prefer only 1 so i have the option later. What do you all think? Will the 300oz be ok.

Well now i have the base rails on i will spend some time adjusting them to get a nice alignment. For now i just placed the gantry ontop of the rails just to see some progress. It really looks nice from my point of view and the thought that i might have something setup this weekend to do some plotting or just to see if it does move is giving me a really good feeling.

Anyway, i am going to do up the dxfs tonight of my gantry to rail mounts and also the sides of the gantry so i can hope to send them off and get them this week sometime. For the mean time i might test the strength of the motors by doing a very crude mock up of the z axis and see how it responds.

Thanks alot,
Daniel

twistedfuse
07-10-2007, 07:43 AM
Hello All,

Im really starting to get worried about the machines operational capacity if the stiffness of the rails is going to be a problem. Its really starting to bug me and i havent had a chance to test the steppers on moving even 1 rail by itself let alone 4 carts on my main axis. Man its really taking it out of me, less sleep and thinking about it all day doesnt help. lol. I know they should ease up over time and also under a load but im sure they should be smoother than this.

After doing some research on the net i found a couple of references to some rails that have adjustable pre-load on them. Now i went through the whole book i got as well as extra info but cant find anything for any of the rails from nsk(unless i overlooked it). So i have taken a pic of both sides of the rail cart(note: that is masking tape to hold the bearings in place...i wish i had some of those temp plastic rail transfers) in the hope some people could tell me if that set screw on 1 side is for pre-load or not as well as confirm which one is the grease inlet. Maybe i should grease the complete rail but i heard i'd need to get a full container of grease, completely clean out the old grease, then re-grease it all without loosing the balls. Otherwise they mix and things really get interesting.

Whats everyones thoughts on the process/ideas on how to lighten the pre-load and get it running smoothly. Should i just sit down for half an hour watch a show and run them back and forth to try and break them in? Other thoughts???

Any help would be greatly appreciated as i'd like to move on very soon and start attaching everything together and see her move. Thanks in advance,

Daniel

P.S I hope people like the pictures, any specific shots can be posted and questions answered etc. Would enjoy to hear other peoples thougths and suggestiongs or changes etc.

Thazul
07-11-2007, 06:49 AM
Hi Daniel,

I have some of the same type of rails, except they are SHS35 THK brand.
I know mine have some resistance also because of the preload, But when some weight is applied they become super smooth.
Try putting some weight on them, or pressing down on them, then sliding them.
Mine were used when I got them so they didn't come in the new packing grease.
I'm not sure exactly but maybe they need to be cleaned/oiled? (wait for someone with some more experience to chime in here before doing anything to them) I'm still a novice.

Machine is looking good! Keep the pictures coming, can never get enough pics :)

twistedfuse
07-11-2007, 07:23 AM
Hello Again,

Thanks heaps for the reply Thazul, its good to know someone else is using these larger rails. Started to think i over-engineered by way too much.lol. That and trying to keep things cheap made it worse.lol.

Yeah i think i might try to send a message to the nsk rep and see what they suggest. I push down on the rail and it does ease it a bit, but it stil requires some energy to push or pull. Thats why i think maybe the lube isnt plentiful enough or something. Maybe im dreaming it up and maybe the motors with the threaded rod will move the rails no problme as they can exert more power than my arm and the fact that maybe im expecting the wrong thing form the rails(really should test by making a cheap z axis).

I am expecting my Gantry to bearing mounts tomorrow morning so i hope to mount the gantry to the base rails and then skip a few steps and try to knock up a simple/cheap threaded rod leadscrew and see if it can move it or not.

I have decided to use one of the suggestions and go with 1 rail and 1 car for the z axis. At the same time i have also got a contact trying to get a monocarrier and hope that might be cheap and that would make the z axis alot easier as it would be a complete stage(Just add motor, grinder and bam! new z axis)

Thanks again everyone,
Daniel

Rodm1954
07-12-2007, 12:14 PM
Hi Daniel,
I would not be worried about the resistance on the bearings. Initiallly there is a slight wear in factor of both the bearings and the wipers (seals) as everthing settles in. Once you have a bit of weight on the rails you will feel it free up and as you have metioned you have quite a mechanical advantage with the screw. Those screws appear to be holding the end seals in place. The adjustable bearings I have seen have screws and a plate parallel to the row of bearings.
Keep going forward and don't dwell on the percieved problems. You are doing well so far.

LikuiD
07-17-2007, 04:47 PM
Hey Daniel,

Just wanted to thank you for that great thread, I'm a total newbie to the
whole diy cnc thing, and its really helpful to see how other people start out,
and the common problems they face and such..

I've bookmarked that page, and will hopefully check it daily :)

Thanks once again !

twistedfuse
07-18-2007, 09:06 AM
Hello Everyone,

Well its been a bit quiet for me on the CNC front for a few days now since work has been hectic and the extreme cold weather for us(which is not normally this cold) has sort of halted the project for the past few days. In general tho i havent been dormant, alot of research has been going into finding some good ballscrews to add to the machine so i dont have to go for all-thread and HDPE. I am sorry i havent been posting it has just been so cold typing actually hurts with the numb hands.

I will definately make sure i start posting more and ask alot more questions, so that maybe more people will chip in. Not just for me but for people like LikuiD and other noobs. I will post tomorrow with a picture of the gantry base attached to my bearing mount plates, as well as a picture of the y axis bearing plate. I will hope to mount a screw to the base by next weeks end that way i can also check the motors out. Which i really want to do. With all the encouragement i dont think it should be a problem but i would prefere to see it work and to put my mind to rest. That way i could probably get some sleep. lol.

Anyway, i will post more tomorrow if i am not too busy with work.
Cheers,
Daniel

P.S If anyone has a question or comment please post, im very open to ideas(especially for a z axis) and i can post pictures dimension etc if people would like them. Just hope to get more people involved in this thread, ill still post anyway but would like to hear form others.

P.P.S Anyone with any links to good ballscrews/bearing mounts that i could use, or have some that they are looking to sell that would be great.

twistedfuse
07-19-2007, 07:53 AM
Hello Agian,

I have found some time in amounst the work i have to get on here and post some more on my router. The good news is i decided to spend some time finding some maths to go behind the cnc theory and help me calculate my motors etc. just to add a bit of releif. I found a post on the zone today that had some maths to help me with some conversion so i know the rough linear force the steppers will ouput.

"I found this formula to estimate linear force developed using a screw / motor combination:

1. Convert ballscrew lead to equivalent pully radius:
example:
Lead =0.200
0.200 / (2pi) = 0.200 / 6.283 = 0.0318" (equliv. radius pully)

2. Convert motor torque into linear force:
example:
Torque = 100 Oz.-In.
100oz-in / .0318 in = 3144 oz. (linear force)
3144 / 16 = 196 lb (linear force)
196 * 0.8 (efficency for ballscrew) = 157 lb linear force.

If this formula is correct, a 100oz-in motor and a 0.200 screw can push 157 pounds force."

Thanks to Bill for doing that as it helped me put my mind to rest for a while. Using the same size thread pitch which is what i might be able to get from my mate, i estimated that the steppers should output 470 lb of linear force. Now converting that to Kg it was over 200kg which did make me feel good, oh and i spose it wouldnt be far off to say if i have trouble and add a second motor to that drive it would be double that. Not bad. Oh and a rack and pinion drive isnt too far off from my mind either.

Anyway, onto my cnc machine. I did spend some time today mounting most of the components together to see how it all looks and also made a mock up table form MDF to see what it would look like and to calculate the height of the clearence from table to mount. Attached are some photos for you to look at. One is of the clearence between the table and the gantry sides(yet to be skirted with the side walls), the others are general views of the main machine as well as the mount for the z axis. There also is one there of the bearing to gantry plate which i used to connect gantry to the bearings. Main problem with that is that i cant mount all the screws yet and it will be difficult to figure it out. Oh well it should be fine with 2 - 3 screws in each cart.

Other than that today has been quiet on a CNC front but busy on the work front. Did find time tho to trial the v-carve program. Not bad, if only i had the money...and a working cnc. lol. I dont think i can afford this for a few years but it is cool to muck around with. There is a picture included of a design i threw together for my father. He collects coins and there is a set made up of 50c pieces so that each one has a different coat of arms on, and i thought this would be a really nice way to display them. I might even think about selling these at the market one day. I dont mind the look of it.

Anyway, i better be getting back to some repair work. Hope you like the pictures.

Daniel

P.S If anyone has any other maths that goes with cnc for useful things that would be great. Would like to add them to my log book for my cnc.

twistedfuse
07-19-2007, 08:10 AM
Hello Again,

Just realised i forgot one of the attachments. The one of the coin holder stand that i designed. Here it is. Pretty simple but i think it would look fantastic. Just not sure what type of wood ill use, thinking along the lines of something native to australia.

Cheers,
Daniel

Rodm1954
07-19-2007, 08:37 AM
Hi Daniel
You forgot Tassie. There are a couple of them on this forum so duck for cover. :)

crocky
07-19-2007, 08:03 PM
Hi Daniel,

Looking good now :)

How did you go with the z-axis? and did you get the lead screws yet. I use www.homeshopcnc.com (http://www.homeshopcnc.com) in the states.

Rod (maybe he was sneaky and just left Tassie off to test us).

Bob

Greolt
07-19-2007, 08:31 PM
G'day Daniel

Your machine is realy starting to look the goods.

I think you should consider strenthening the gantry side supports.

Perhaps a triangular piece of 5 or 6mm plate on each side connecting to the uprights and the X bearing block plate.

Or even another piece of the 40mm square section triangulated in there.

Greg

twistedfuse
07-19-2007, 09:52 PM
Hello Everyone,

Funny you should mention that. When i was done i looked at it and thought the smae to myself...maybe i was testing myself. lol. Tehre si also another for the Norfolk Islands as well. Ill have to pull the coins out tonight to double check i Havent missed any others.

As for the gantry sides they will be skirted with 6mm plate like Greolt mentioned. That way i can mount the motors furthur out for the y axis(keep them closer to the back of the tool plate) as well as make sure its sturdy and keeps the gantry perpendicular with the table. Otherwise the small tabs seem to bend under the weight. Dont blame them. Maybe ill use both that and an extra tube section at an angle to help. keep it upright. lol.

As for the ballscrew/leadscrew. I will see if my mate can help me out as he said he could sell me some 1 1/4" 5TPI threads. I hope he can as it would amke it alot cheaper otherwise ill get some in from the states. The z axis is on hold until i finish the main axis's. In the mean time im thinking of either buying some linear rods/bearings or eevn better trying for a full linear stage or pre-built z axis from someone to help save time in getting this baby running. My 1 rail one will still be built to keep the solidness of design but as pointed out by Rod(i think) i will try for 2 rails to allow heavy mounted routers etc.

Either way, i still cant wait to see this baby move. It looks nice but well see when i get it hooked up. Thanks again everyone,

Daniel

twistedfuse
07-24-2007, 08:32 AM
Hello Again,

Man its really starting to bug me. I have the mahcine sitting right in front of where i enter my garage and every day i come in and see it. Would be better if i was coming in to see it in actions. lol. Ah well not overly too much longer.

Anyway the reason for posting today is that i was hoping i could get some peoples thoughts on linear transmission for a machine. Things like experiences, pros vs cons that type of thing. Its because i was thinking about it the other day and am wondering what would be better. Ballscrews, Leadscrews or Rack and Pinion.

Now i know there are a few posts on the VS topics so i thought rather than take a general overview i would post to see what people think about it in reguard to my machine. Remembering that my machine would be used for things such as PCBs(not extremely fine but the finer the better) right through to things from aluminum and rough cutting things like homemade wind turbine blades(For my Hobby).

I went through what i thought but having no experience with either im not sure if what my thoughts are, are true or not. Remembering too that cost will not be a huge issue (less is better but not always best) but mainly availability. If i can get these threads form the guy it will most likely be that unless i think i'd be better off with another method like R&P.

Anyway i was thinking Ballscrews/Leadscrews as the precision i think would be greater with these than with R&P. However i thought R&P for the fact that they will not have to be as protected and can tolerate much more(dirt and debree wise) and can be configured with a ratio to allow higher speed with higher torque. The downsides i saw to the R&P would be the fact that i would have to use 2 for my main axis hence getting rid of the idea of the rotarty table, yet attaching it to the tubular aluminum would be much simpler as it bolts to it. The Ballscrews however would be more expensive and would require much closer attention to alingment and protection from dirt and debree as well as having a little more complicated mounting(pillow blocks for bearings and mounting the nut to the gantry base in the exact middle).

ANyway, thats all i can think of at the moment. So if i have got something wrong or if you think one or the other would eb better for my situation, each input or thought or idea would be extremely appreciated so i can take it all in and make a decision.

Thanks again,
Daniel

P.S Again if anyone is looking to offload some gear(R&P or Ballscrew) i would be willing if its in my price range. Also if anyone has a linear stage or pre-built z axis i would also be interested. Im starting to look for parts for a second machine that i will be building with a friend(For them) so actually anything linear would be great. One last thing also, would be a high-speed spindle so it would make etching small items a breeze(Things like PCB traces, aluminum Drink Coaster, small metal model stuff for my Miniature Roller Coasters etc.) just contact me directly or PM me. Cheers

Rodm1954
07-24-2007, 10:01 AM
Hi Daniel,

Your design lends itself more to a single ballscrew than R&P but either would work. R&P are usually used on wide gantrys as a means to eliminate racking (sideways play) across the gantry. I can't see that you would have that problem as you only have a narrow gantry and you have good triangulation across the base of the gantry. R&P also have much higher friction than ballscrew. No contest between leadscrew and ballscrew - get leadscrews and you will put in ballscrews within twelve months. :)
Also the machining required for R&P is probably more complex than bearing blocks for ballscrews.

We would all like a machine that can cut foam through to brass. Fact is whatever you end up with will do it but there will be compromises. Some require slow speed, some fast, some require dust extraction, some coolant so you can see there are different modes for different materials. This does not mean you will not be able to do it all but be prepared to experiment. A good quality variable speed router or die grinder is a reasonable choice and a spindle can be swapped out quite easily if a better one comes along later.

You have the basis of a good machine and don't worry it is not unusual to have doubts while building a machine. If there was anything major wrong it would have been pointed out to you already so go for it and the problems will disappear.

As for linear parts ebay is your friend as anything in Australia sells for a premium.

twistedfuse
07-24-2007, 10:25 AM
Rod,

Thanks for the reply, especially this late at night. In reguards to the reply, thanks for the tips. I will definately keep my eye out for some good ballscrews and keep an eye on homeshop etc. Waiting to snap up a good deal. The R&P machineing wouldnt be overly too hard as i'd get the parts plasma cut but hey i spose i could figure out a way that the bearing blocks could be done too. I will try to keep an eye out for complete sets of ballscrews that include the bearings and blocks and pre-loaded nut.

As long as my machine cuts ill be happy, as speed isnt a real factor for me(not until later anyway) and its limited in cutting like you said however it would be nice to cut anything thats why i decided on aluminum(Table replaced later), that way i can have coolant on it without worries as well as adaptable to add a vacuum table, rotarty table and other stuff. Maybe some shields around the sides as well, as i saw a cool little thing i'd like to try later...ice sculptures(everytime i see something new i add it to the list...lol)

As for the spindle, i saw one on ebay, a really nice nsk precision one(for circuits and fine work) which i might bid on but i have a local shop which has a die grinder that im looking at, now im not sure if i want an electric one or an air one but either will be better than the dremel i have.

Thanks again for the reply, im just waiting for a good deal and some more funds to compile, that way i can get the sides done for the gantry in the mean time and finally get in some ballscrews.

Daniel

P.S What should i expect to pay for a good deal(price wise) on the ballscrews(Thanks Rod fo the tip - I will do away with the leadscrew idea). One will be just under 1m long and the other 700mm long. Also what diameter do you all think is about right for the size of my machine(16mm etc)? If my mate is able to sell me some threads will the 1 1/4" be too thick? Was also thinking if the nut for whatever rod i get fits should i just attach the nut to the gantry base frame in the middle so that the rod actually goes through the gantry base tube frame(Can post picture if not sure what i mean)???

Rodm1954
07-24-2007, 11:09 AM
Hi Daniel
You are still going to have to have bearing on the pinion so plasma cutting will not answer all your problems. I don't think it is a wise idea to mount the pinion gear on the stepper.

The leadscrew at one and a quarter inches and one metre long is probably too much weight for a small stepper to rotate. Your acceleration would have to be de-tuned to wind it up and slow it down. A bit of over kill for your size machine. The problem with leadscrews is the balance between friction and backlash - no backlash means more friction so it is a self defeating exercise. Lubrication can reduce this as well as the heat build up but lubrication is a magnet for dust and swarf.

Both the leadscrew and R&P have much higher friction than ballscrew.
I have built a few machines around your size machine and used the Nook 5/8 ballscrews in double nut and pre-loaded nut configurations with great success. The 0.2 pitch is a good match for the Nema 23 motors and the weight of your gantry. The second hand ground ballscrews off ebay would likely be much more than the cost of new Nooks and their condition would be unknown. My suggestion about ebay was for linear equipment in general for your friend and not for the ballscrews for this machine although you might get lucky. My money is on the Nooks if I was building your machine.

As for locating your nut on the gantry either though the tubes or above or below is fine. Do whatever is easier for you but make sure there is some adjustment in your design so you can allign it with the end bearings. Slotted mounting holes and the use of shims in the other direction is a reasonable method for a home built machine.

harryn
07-24-2007, 03:08 PM
I am on kind of a belt drive kick right now, of course, I am still just collecting parts and ideas for my own (first) project, so take it FWIW.

I apologize to the original poster of this idea (thought I had bookmarked it), but someone recently posted the idea of mounting a stepper motor on the movement, and mounting the belt ends to fixed locations. In effect, the belt drive becomes a rack and pinion setup.

The advantage I see in this approach, is that it requires fewer parts to be precision made and mounted. A ball screw setup is very nice, but to properly mount it takes some real care, fairly expensive bearings, special end fit ups, etc. (of course, it will work well).

On my own project, I am going to at least try to use some stepper motors with substantial axial load capability, and just depend on the precision of the motor / belt pulley for movement. This hopefully lets me concentrate my spending into fewer components.

twistedfuse
07-24-2007, 08:06 PM
HEllo Again,

Thanks for the replys, been distracted this morning as i was going to buy one of those lovely machine from widgit master that have just been made. They are fantastic. I just wished i had the money. It would have surved for all my fine and intricate work like circuits, that way i could have spend more time on my larger machine with all my other larger projects. Ah well.

Anyway in reguards to the replys again thankyou very much. I will keep an eye out for some nook sets, where should i look for a shop or company that sells them? Does homeshop sell them or anywhere like that? Thanks for the post rod it cleared up alot for me. Also i have stopped looking on ebay for the screws.lol. I was just looking there cause some were sets that had pillow blocks as well. lol. Less machining the better.

As for the belt drive as suggested by harryn, thansk it does sound alot simpler to mount, plus it wouldnt have to much problem with a bit of dirt. The only thing i could think of would be the fact that the belt would end up stretching and slipping. I know you could have an adjuster but i think it would be fiddly. Thanks tho, im sure it'll work for your machine however as im sure you have designed for it. Like rod said the more i think about it the more i think this machine is suited for the single ballscrew.

Anyway, thanks again. Will now spend some time searching for nook screws...and some funds. lol.

Daniel

Greolt
07-24-2007, 08:36 PM
Daniel

I am going to jump in here and add to Rod's excellent advise.

I have built using both R&P and Nook ballscrews on different machines.

It is a mistake to think that there is less bearing housings etc. to make with R&P

Direct driving pinions on this size machine is not a viable option.

So reductions must either be bought (planetry type gear boxes- expensive) or made with toothed belt and pulleys.

To be done satisfactorily is as much or more work compared to mouting dual contact bearings and direct couplers to nook type screws.

R&P has definate advantages with dust etc. The Nook ballsrews really need some sort of dust dust protection method made or bought IMO.

I'm going to have to disagree with Rod on the subject of friction. Sorry Rod. :wave:

I think you will find that R&P will compare quite well with ballscrews in the efficiency stakes. Acme or allthread type leadscrews will not.

Because you have very robust linear bearings you will have no racking issues driving the X axis from the center underneath.

R&P would normaly be driven from both sides. This can be done with one motor and a shaft accross the gantry. More complicated but possible.

Overall when I look at your machine as it stands now I think I would go with Nook screws.

R&P really needed to be disigned into it from the start and comes into its own with much longer travels.

I haven't mentioned belt drives though I think they have good potential and would like to do a machine using them one day.

Hope all this will only help you with your forward momentum and not just confuse with too many options.:)

Greg

twistedfuse
07-24-2007, 09:02 PM
Hello Again,

Thanks for the great reply greolt, both you and rod have some great knowledge. Most people do, always good to keep and opened mind.

I have been emailing round today searching for some linear actuators or ballscrews and have been offered a ballscrew with flanged nut for $220(unmachined). Im just checking a little more on the info. He said either 16mm x 5TPI or 20mm x 5TPI. So i have said i'm looking at the 16mm one but need some more information. He is extremely nice. I am just checking as he said it was old stock, as to wether it is old because its not made anymore or if they just dont sell that brand anymore. So i am just waiting for a part number to clarify what it is and also to see whats included in the sale.

Also what do you all reckon i should do for ballscrew cleanout/protection?

Thanks again,
Daniel

Greolt
07-24-2007, 09:29 PM
Daniel

You need to know a bit more detail about that screw.

If it is just equivalent of what you are getting with the Nook from HomeshopCNC then it is probably a bit dear.

However if old stock it is possible it is something better. Possible but unlikely to be quality ground ballscrew with integrated seals etc.

How long?

Greg

twistedfuse
07-24-2007, 09:55 PM
Greg,

Thanks for that reply. One of the things i didnt consider/ask. I really want to make sure what it is hence the reason for askng for part numbers and such.

My mate locally is again helping out(he has given me so much help its not funny, he's a great guy). He said he'll be able to machine the ends for me. Another load off my mind. Anyone have any ideas for custom ballscrew bearing mounts. Maybe some designs or ideas.

I checked homeshop and it would be roughly $271 for both screws and 1 nut per screw(should i use 2) and thats without shipping. I didnt go for the flange as im sure they are extremely simple to make up.Bummer they are off until the 1st. But then again by the time i get around to it they will be back.

Anyway, one last question. With the ballscrew should i direct drive it or think about having a pulley set between motor and ballscrew to allow more precision and higher torque?

Thanks again to everyone for there replys. It is indefinately helping and like i said i am hoping to have ordered these at the latest by friday week.

Thanks again,
Daniel

Greolt
07-24-2007, 10:15 PM
Anyway, one last question. With the ballscrew should i direct drive it or think about having a pulley set between motor and ballscrew to allow more precision and higher torque?


See what Rod has to say on this but I reckon with anything around 5tpi direct drive would be the way to go.

That works out if using 1/8th microstep drives at about 315 steps per mm. So resolution should be fine.

With stepper motors torque actualy drops of with revs. More torque at lower revs.

Greg

twistedfuse
07-24-2007, 10:31 PM
Cheers for that. Im not sure if i will run the machine at 1/8th ms but as long as i will get reliable repeatablitlity with fairly fine work. Also to answer the question you asked before the ballscrew is 1m long.

Maybe i should just order from homeshop cnc as i seem to find alot of happy people. But i will wait for the reply about the old stock. I have been lucky so far witht he rails so hopefully i might be lucky with the ballscrews aswell.

Thansk again,
Daniel

twistedfuse
07-26-2007, 07:22 AM
Quick One for Rod,

You said that you have used both double nut formation and a single pre-loaded nut on a nook ballscrew of 5/8". Which do you think i would benefit more from in my machine or which is better? Will be looking to place order first thing on the 1st and get the screws soon(Express postage). Then i can finish off the machine and watch it run. :-) Not Far to go.

Will look at getting the gantry sides done next week and organising my limit/home switches ready so i have them after i have completed the router. Might get around to mounting some braces with wheels and brakes on the base too. Makes it much easier than having to get someone to help me move it. lol.

Thanks again everyone,
Daniel

Rodm1954
07-26-2007, 07:46 AM
Hi Daniel
I use a single pre-loaded ballnuts on a machine like you have. Mounting is much simpler and it is unlikely you will get much wear with a aluminum gantry.
On a heavy machine or mill I use double ballnuts. The advantage of double ballnuts is that you can adjust it if you ever get any backlash.

Hi Greg
Thanks for the heads up on friction on the R&P compared to ballscrew.

twistedfuse
07-28-2007, 02:08 AM
Thanks for the reply Rod. I just thought which ever was ebtter i'd end up going for. either way its not too much difference between the prices. Now i just have to wait till wednesday to order them. Then a few more days till i get them. lol. Then ill definately be having some fun.

Thanks again,
Daniel

twistedfuse
07-31-2007, 07:44 AM
Hello all,

Im just messaging as i need a few more questions answered and hopefully everyones input to a question i have. Ive been speaking with the guy who offered me the ballscrews cheap today and he said he had 2 with flanged nut(just 1 but he cant tell if its preloaded). Im waiting to hear if its rolled or ground as all he has said so far is its about 100 micron to 300mm. SO i am unsure of what type this would be. He said i could get them this week if i order tomorrow and am hoping to go ahead and order soon. I know it will be cheaper postage so am considering the option only if they are precision nuts/ballscrews. What does everyone think they are? I will be looking at around 400 bucks for them which im sure will be similar to postage and screws form homeshopcnc.

Daniel

twistedfuse
08-01-2007, 03:35 AM
Well after a bit of confusion with all the ballscrew stuff i finally realised that i'd be getting the same thing from either homeshopcnc or through this guy. And after doing a little searching i also found out that by the time i add postage it woud eb the same price asgetting it locally as i didnt have to pay postage fees from this guy and he did end up giving me the last 2 screws at cost which was a little less than i thought. Not too bad. Its good when finding old stock(He also told me today that the ballscrews are still made they just dont support the company anymore).

Yay, good news now is that i have all the main components coming at last and the last thing that will be a major major purchase will be the spindle. I have had a few emails about people asking me what ill use and getting conflicting things back form them. I originally was going to use a die grinder after seeing a few used as well as a good recommendation form my mate Carl. I will have a small high powered spindle later for fine etching and PCB boards but it is mainly the larger spindle i was worried about, should i go for a die grinder or trim router or a proper spindle off/for a mill? I will be doing a little aluminum work and thus ruled out the trim router. Now my question is what do you all think about the 2 and which you think would be better. They both would be variable im sure so is there anything else i should look for?

Also my next biggest thing will be mounting the ballscrews and motors. Does anyone know any quick way/ideas to mount them. I just thought i got past the biggest problem but now im at a new one. lol. Are standar bearings ok for the time being to get the machine working until i can get a spindle mounted and mill my own bearing/motor moutns?

Thanks in advance,
Daniel

P.S I hope everyone elses machines are coming along nicely.

Colin300
08-01-2007, 05:30 AM
Hi ,

i want to build my own stepper drivers for 6 wire nema 23 motors.
what did you use purchased or DYI
regards
colin

twistedfuse
08-01-2007, 09:46 AM
Colin,

I personally bought my drivers and motors as a kit from hobbycnc but if your looking for homemade electronics(and save a bit on postage from the states) there is a website(you'll have to search google for "picstep") about a guy from australia who made whats called a pic step driver as well as a chopper board (i think L297+L298 choppers). Anyway have a browse i have heard they aren't bad boards. Tell me how you go.

Daniel

twistedfuse
08-01-2007, 11:48 PM
Well things are in place and if things work in my favor over the next 2 weeks i should have the machine purring away and milling. All my ballscrews arrive tomorrow and a linear slide section(took easy way out for z but will make another with the rails i bought using the machine, that way it'll be stronger). As well as some really cheap ballscrew end supports(THK Ones) with angular ballbearings in them. The last 2 should be here by the latest of wednesday. Hopefully i can get the screws machined early next week and the sides of the gantry too(that all depends on how busy my mate is). I have the wheels with brakes already as well so all i have to do now is assemble it all and watch it run. All the expensive stuff is taken care of now so now it'll be a little cheaper on the pocket and i can start saving for some bits, maybe V-carve pro and some other small odds and ends(Im sure the ods and ends along will be expensive) oh and last but not leat a new spindle(either the die grinder or proper spindle).

Look forward to uploading some pictures of the machine soon. And maybe a video or two.

Daniel

twistedfuse
08-01-2007, 11:56 PM
Oh and by the way are there any aussies out there that have found a supplier for oldham couplers. i will be needing some and relaised that they arent readily available in asutralia as i thought they were. Or maybe im not searching for the right thing. Tried blackwoods etc.

Anyhelp greatly appreciated.
Daniel

Greolt
08-02-2007, 12:25 AM
Daniel

The local engineering supplies sell Lovejoy spider couplers with 1/4" bore.

$17.60 each when I got a few a month ago. That's cheaper than going OS.

Jaycar sell one for $15 but they are tiny.

Greg

twistedfuse
08-02-2007, 03:02 AM
Greg,

Thanks for your reply. I have 1 of the jaycar ones but dont find them very good at all. Very sloppy for my likes. The reason i thought about oldham couplins were the fact i could get stainless steel ones and the fact that i can mix and match ends as ill be looking to have 1/4" shaft motors coupled to either 10 or 12mm ballscrews(machinedArea).

I will try locally to see, as well as try some more searching of google to see if there is someone ion sydney.

Where your lovejoy ones set screw or clamp style?

Thanks again,
Daniel

Greolt
08-02-2007, 03:48 AM
They're set screw. Easy to bore them to whatever size you need.

twistedfuse
08-02-2007, 05:40 AM
Greg,

Thanks for that. Looking past the obvious i didnt think to bore them out. Are the set screw type suitable. Will i need to get the shaft made into that d shape to make the set screws/coupling a little more solid?

Thanks again, Will save me a bit of time and money. Cheers,
Daniel

Greolt
08-02-2007, 06:03 AM
Will i need to get the shaft made into that d shape to make the set screws/coupling a little more solid?


Probably not needed with 300oz motors but you can file or grind a small flat on it. Won't need much.

Greg

twistedfuse
08-02-2007, 06:40 AM
Greg,

Thanks majorly wiht the coupling. I've found a local supplier just browsing the net and failing that, one from sydney. You've saved me atleast 20 bucks in postage along and probably price wise too.

thanks again.
Daniel

P.S I found a wesite tonight which if you scrol to the bottom of the page has a nice conversion program online that will convert oz/in ---> Kg/cm. Makes me feel a little better knowing 21 KG/c is running from the motor. Then again got to take into account the friction of ballscrew and slides. But form what i was told the other day the ballscrew actually magnifys the force thats output. Either way the best thing i can think of to check is to actually get it running. lol. In the mean time i might start designing my 4th axis too. Any ideas?

twistedfuse
08-02-2007, 07:01 AM
Man i wish i'd stop rambling on i keep forgetting the most important stuff.

http://www.luberth.com/cstep/

Well theres the site if anyone wants to try it out. Also dont mind his cheap 4th axis there. Simple to learn with before moving up to something more expensive.

Greolt
08-02-2007, 07:04 AM
Don't remember where I got it but this is a great converter program.

Keep it on my desktop and use it all the time. Does not need to be installed, just works.

Greg

hellman81
08-02-2007, 07:43 AM
Check your PM, I have sent my details and have ballscrews.

twistedfuse
08-06-2007, 06:13 AM
Hello All,

My day was great today...the postman gave me some goodies. They were my ballscrews. Man are these things fasinating. The smoothness of them is unreal. Never could imagine how smooth and play free they are. The more i looked at them the more i felt better about my design and am starting to realise that i will soon have my mahcine that i have contiplated over for a few years now. The two ballscrews are raw screws with ballnuts and flange so they will need to be machined to suit the ballscrew supports that i have on order. So ill have to get in contact with my mate to see if he is busy. I hope not. lol. Cant wait to have the machine up and running.

The postman should bring me the rets of my goodies this week, so by the end of the week ill have everythign except a spindle so far. I will post some picures of the ballscrews tomorrow and post pictures of the other goodies as they arrive. Tomorrow i will spend the day searching for some good couplers. Tried a few places that i thought would have had them but didnt so ill just order them from another local engineering supplies store.

Anyway, im off to start dreaming of my finished machine now so ill leave you all till tomorrow when i will get some photos for you.

Cheers,
Daniel

twistedfuse
08-06-2007, 08:48 PM
Hello Again,

im hoping to start posting more often now that i have everything nearly done. That way you can see the end of the build. Well i was right more goodies came in the post today. I didnt get my ballscrew supports but i did get the linear stage i ordered to make building my z axis easier until i figure out a way to build the z axis with the rails i got. I think i will use the mahcine to build that one. It runs so smoothly compared to the larger rails but then again the size is completely different.

Anyway, i added a picture of the stage and of the ballscrews and ballnuts. Not the best pictures as they were still in th eplastic but you can see some detail. Well im off to try and get the last little bits for the cnc. Hoping to hook up the stage and watch it move just need a spacer as the motor shaft is about 3mm too long. Ah well. ANyway, im sure ill post some pictures toorrow of the ballscrew double angular bearing supports. They should be here first thing tomorrow. for now im going to rest as i think i have the dredded flue thats going around.

Thanks again,
Daniel

P.S Hope to be cutting soon.

twistedfuse
08-08-2007, 09:26 AM
Hello Again,

Well, givin the flue atm i have had alot of time to think and do some more designing for the machine. Good news is that most of the major parts will be done soon, and the rest will be little things to add to get it moving. So i should be on track to see the machine move within the next 2 weeks (A little longer than i originally thought in my first posts. lol. "It looks easy" famous last words.)

The bad news tho, is that will all the time to think and tinker and browse the zone, the more i get worried again about the functionality of my design. I guess my biggest fears are wether my 300oz motor will be strong enough to move the gantry and the linear rails. Not many machines use 35mm rails and if they do they are commercial ones and im sure they use huge motors to power them. I just really need to finish at least 1 of the 2 main axis to watch it move and put my roller coaster thoughts behind me. The mate that i speak with locally (and who has giving me a real hope in hell with all he has done for me) said that if it doesnt(which i hope it does) worse comes to worse ill just need to gear the motor. IS this correct, im sure it is.

I guess getting closer to the end you get more anxious, im not very good mechanically(average skills) so this has been a huge build and i guess im one of those that just wish i had one pre-built or at least someway of knowing "yes that will definately work" hence why the maths made me feel a little better. I know im probably being silly and ill look back and laugh at all these stupid posts of fear and laugh but right now i think i have hit the bed of my nails from late night thoughts and sleep deprivation and am hoping that if it does fail i just dont just stop and have cnc go dorment as im really keen to get into it. Saying that, i guess worse comes to worse i just buy new rails or buy new motors and controllers or do whatever i have to, to build a working one. I just dont have very deep pockets being a student and all. :-)

Anyway, look forward to posting some good news tomorrow, hoping the my ballscrew mounts(will post some pictures of them) will be in tomorrow and catching up with my mate soon to see the rest of the parts machined too.

Daniel
(Hoping to be upgrading the machine in a few weeks with the machine itself, not redesigning the machine. lol. Oh and hoping to be able to sleep properly for the first time in a month or two)

twistedfuse
08-09-2007, 03:28 AM
Well,

Today has been another good day, recived the last of the packages i ordered last week and after speaking wiht my family today they told me they have absolutely no idea what to get me for my 21st this year so they have decided to leave it up to me so we decided we'll head down to victoria on a plane and do something special down there for a few days and they will buy some stuff for cnc for me. That way all the family and friends can add to something i like. :-)

Well did this make me happy. The first thing i thought is that if i dont see my machine run ill just order a complete 4 axis gekko driver kit with 700+oz motors(that ought to move the gantry no problems...lol. Wont need them tho - *thinking positive*) or ill be able to order a nice cad cam program like something from vetric or bobcad/cam. Not completely sure yet. lol. I know ill still have to add money to it but hey, itll be cheaper. Oh and a whole heap of tool bits wont go astray either...lol. Any other recommendations out there for what i could get?

Anyway, back on track, i got my ballswcrew support mounts today with angular contact bearings and nut set screws. See picture attached. Im extremely pleased with them, they were really cheap and the seller was brilliant. I woud recommend him again, he is a machinist company but is going to setup small things for hobby cnc so when he's setup ill let you all know. They were secondhand, but i'd say barely. Not a scratch on them, they are NSK brand which made it easy to pre-design my mounting idea as i have their complete precision machine components datasheet/product guide. Nice and handy.

Oh another thing today, if anyone in australia is lookig for oldham couplers, i sourced them through a local company who gets them from BSC bearings in sydney. All types, helical beam and many more just in case anyone is interested. I thought they were reasonably priced (probably a bit dearer than if someone stocked in the area but much better than adding shipping charges).

Anyway, ill be sending the dxfs through to my mate tonight and hope to be building the rest of my machine next week and hopefully watching the monster move.

Daniel

twistedfuse
08-09-2007, 08:30 AM
Just a quick question for anyone out there that may know something about this topic. I was thinking tonight on how to turn something 3d from life into a 3d image on a computer and translate it into code. I remember from one of my older hobbies, Astronomy, that when i was looking for a green laser points there was a link to somehting that somehow used a green laser point and something else to make a homemade scanning device. It was pretty simple and yielded some brilliant results. Does anyone have a clue, used one, or maybe even knows of a good site that steps you through the complete process. Just wondering if it can actually be done. Wouldn't mind replacing parts with some nice woodgrain pieces.

Cheers,
Daniel

P.S I guess digitizing probes would work too, would they? How do these work and is it possible to home-make one?

Thazul
08-09-2007, 05:34 PM
Hey Daniel,

I thought I remember a thread on the zone here about this.

After a quick google search I found these, they look informative:

http://www.instructables.com/id/ESQ41476M3EP285ZU2/
http://www.chromecow.com/MadScience/3DScanner/3DScan.htm
http://www.sjbaker.org/projects/scanner/

-

Andy

crocky
08-10-2007, 05:07 AM
Hi Daniel,

Check this one out, it's free too :)

http://www.rob.cs.tu-bs.de/news/david

I have not tried it yet but from the reading it is pretty good.

Bob

twistedfuse
08-10-2007, 06:27 AM
Bob/Andy,

Thanks for the replys. To be honest i didnt think there would be that much info out there on the subject so didn't think to look. I just thought someone may have used it before. I was wanting to use something like this to mimic cd player inserts etc later down the track if it isnt too hard. Got a bit of reading to do now. lol. Its alot simpler than i originally thought.

Thanks again for the replies,
Daniel

P.S I cant stop adding to the list of things to do after i complete the machine. The first thing i should do is complete it. lol

twistedfuse
08-10-2007, 06:30 AM
"Its alot simpler"

LOL. Thats what i said about the CNC i really should learn. The again it should be as anything i need made can almost be done with the CNC now.

twistedfuse
08-10-2007, 06:53 AM
Also one other question tonight,

I was curious as to what the pros and cons of upgrading my stepper controls to gekkos(or other control system) would be. For argument sake, if i did end up wanting to buy new motors, say 450 - 700oz, where would i get a really good package deal for gekkos/kits for controllers for this size motor. What are the down sides?

Im just asking cause im thinking of building a smaller machine for smaller parts as well as PCBs and leave my larger one for larger parts and aluminum. And if i do that, i guess upgrading the larger machine would be nice. This wont happen for ages but just curious.

Thanks in advance,
Daniel

twistedfuse
08-15-2007, 03:35 AM
Hello All,

Thought that its been too long since last post. And it has been. Its been pretty quiet for the last couple days but things are slowly coming together. Im having the ballscrews machined tomorrow to size and hopefully if things go well maybe even getting the plasma cut pieces off my mate. Wonder how much its going to cost me. Then its a matter of attaching the gantry sides and ballscrew mounts, deciding on how the ballscrews will mount to the gantry and tool plate/z axis and making the final mounts and getting her moving.

The past couple of days have been a pain with a local company trying to get the couplings. They can get them its just being a pain in the back side as they dont really know what im talking about and arent relaying the proper info to the company they source through. Im trying to get helical beam(No Backlash) now since the company can get both these and oldham style type connectors but im sure its going to come down to what sizes are available and what i can get quicker.

Other good news tho is that i finally got some screws and such to mount the stepper to the z axis linear stage. So the motor is now mounted securely and runnning smoothly. Much less friction compared to the larger rails. It is running through mach 3 at a nice 3000mm/min. Seems to suit the z axis fine. That im sure will change when the die grinder or spindle is added. The other good thing so far is that i finally figured out a name for my machine. I ended up designing a simple dxf for a decorative backplate to go behind the tube across the gantry. Its sorta wasted space so i felt adding something nice would go nicely. Im getting the name "M.A.D Turner" cut into it. Should look nice when complete and cutting away.

Well i will definately post some photos of the screws when machined and of the gantry sides and hopefully of them mounted to the sides of the machine tomorrow. Im off to finish figuring out the machining to be done to the screws. Its gunna be another night of restless sleep thinking about the machine as its getting closer to completeion.

Thanks again,
Daniel

crocky
08-15-2007, 06:32 PM
Hi Daniel,

Thats the way to go :)

Getting real close now and I like the name too.

Bob

twistedfuse
08-16-2007, 06:35 AM
Hello Again,

YAY, things are slowly getting there. Met with my mate Carl, today. Damn he is the nicest and smartest guy i know. He has helped me greatly(not to mention all those on here that have helped too). He machined both screws down to size on a lathe that he has at his work. Man was that lathe nice. I wish i had one of those laying around my workplace or home. Not for the price tho. Watching a master machinist at work was pretty awesome. It was sorta funny while machining as the lathe had some hard work to do on these screws. They are made extremely solid. All i can say is carl is a life saver for me. Hes put up with alot of emails from me and also machining a bit for me too. His CNC plasma machine is also a thing to watch in action as well.

Anyway, Carl said i should expect the gantry sides and other parts done soon if hes not too busy so it will be great to see them. It will prove to be the extremely close point where only smaller things are left to do. YAY. It was good today also as i got to speak with Carl about his machine and general questions i had. Im definately going to go with a solid router or die grinder and we both agree that there is almost no doubt ill need some type of gearing on my machine as the 300oz motors will struggle at best to move the heavy gantry and stiff linear rails. So that leaves me with a question,

What type of gearing should i use(Pulleys and belts?) and what ratio. He said his machine has roughly a 6:1 ratio and i quite like the speed his gets although i dont need speed on this size table, just a reasonable speed for cutting aluminum, wood, plastic, stone etc. I pretty much want the ability to machine anything, hence the really big rails and solid build.

Anyway, i guess that will get a few to post and help me out. That way as soon as the gantry dont move, heres hoping it does, i know that ive done the research and know where to get them. Also i guess i should get it anyway, to make lighter work for the steppers and also get a bit more resolution as well as a fair bit more torque that can only come in handy sooner or later.

Thanks in advance,
Daniel

P.S Crocky, thanks for that. I know the next week or so will be late nights, sleepless nights and stressful considering all the small things that will need to be made and mounted. I just cant wait to get it over with(well at least the main machining...i just cant wait to see it move so i know it was all worth it). The nameplate i think will have to be the last thing attached as it will signify the end of the main build. I think ill have to have an actual naming ceremony. lol.

twistedfuse
08-17-2007, 01:36 AM
Wahoo,

Carl has come through with alot more goodies again. Man is this bloke great, and his machine has produced some great parts. Cant wait to get home and attach them. At work atm but couldn't wait to post the news. Ill get photos as soon as i get a chance. As usual it is the weekend so it wont get much done till early next week unless i get a chance after work tomorrow.

Doing a bit of research on pulleys and such and am finding that alot of aussie companys only stock 1/2" bore pulleys. So i was curious as to where i should look next other than places like McMaster-Carr? Will be looking at either 5:1 or 6:1. Any suggestions.

Thansk again and ill definately post some pictures of the sides. And hopefully of them mounted soon too.

Daniel

Thazul
08-17-2007, 07:54 PM
Hey Daniel, the build is looking good, can't wait to see more pics!

If you can't find what you need at McMaster, this place should have it - http://www.sdp-si.com/

Best Regards,

Andy

twistedfuse
08-18-2007, 02:33 AM
Andy,

Will definately post some more pictures soon. Will be finished here at work within the next half and hour. Might try to do a mock up of the gantry sides for a photo or two. Looking forward to completing the machine. Wanting to order through mcmaster-carr or through that site you gave me. I think i saw a bit more through the site you gave me so ill try them for the belts and pulleys as well as the couplings. Might be cheaper to egt the lot through them rather then paying the extra is aus for them considering i will have to place an order anyway. Should i go for aluminum timing pulleys for the belt reduction. Also if im using a 5:1 ratio what would be the resultant torque when using my 300oz/in motors? I think it will be much cheaper using the belt reduction to power the machine rather than outlaying alot more for a complete new gekko system with motors. Even then ill probably have to end up using a belt reduction for some reason.

Thanks again,
Daniel

P.S Will post pictures soon

Greolt
08-18-2007, 02:47 AM
Daniel

I can't help thinking you have convinced yourself that you need these reduction pulleys before checking it out.

There are plenty of machines of similar size to yours that run ballscrews much the same as yours, with direct coupled 300 oz motors.

5 or 6 to 1 reduction is a lot and you may be disapointed with the speed you end up with.

Check with someone like Rodm54 who has built several machines very similar to yours before shelling out the bucks on belts and pulleys.

What I would try to do is temporarily couple a motor to your screw with a piece of hose and a couple of hose clamps. Just hold the motor in your hand and give it a go.

Make that two hands. :) You may be surprised.

Greg

twistedfuse
08-18-2007, 08:03 AM
Hello All,

Well even though i thought it would be half an hour it wasnt, took quite a bit longer to get some time to go out and mock up the gantry for some pictures. Like i said i was very pleased with the cut outs made by Carl. Just need to spend some time to file the edges smooth. But it didnt take much to mount the ballscrew end mounts and test spin the screw to see how it would feel. Not too bad. Definately cleaner and smoother than mounting a threaded rod and some delrin. lol

Ive also added a couple of pictures of my z axis actuator for a couple of people who PM'd me about them. Quite happywith the purchase, definately made my life alot easier and will help me in cutting quicker.

Greg, yeah sorta have i guess but i will hold off and do as you said. I guess when im building things i dont always think i did it right. The only difference between me and what others have built(and i have recieved plenty of courage and support form both you and rod and others so im not doubting you guys) but i have alot larger rails and i guess not seeing this size on many machines really makes me wonder. I know one good thing, at least they'll handle any weight i put onto them...lol. Also i know the bigger the rails the bigger the momentary energy(cant think of its actual name) but i think thats where if rotational play somehow comes into a design these will handle it alot better than smaller rails. I will hold off and test them before ordering gearing.

Anyway, as usual if anyone wants clearer images of anything let me know, only too happy to post any pictures answer questions etc. Thansk again and i hope to be posting again soon with the tool plate connected to the screw, that way i can definately test out the motors. I might try and get my mate to quickly machine up some cheap aluminum couplers. Might come in handy later.

Daniel

P.S Greg, I will definately hold on with 2 hands...just curious tho...how will i press the go button on the computer. lol .Ill have to see if the better half will come out in the cold to help :-)

P.P.S You may also notice the coupler on the actuator. This is actually one form Jaycar and im extremely unhappy with these, huge backlash and the rubber middle is already broken down and its new. Im now thinking about trying to stick with helical beam style couplings to eliminate most backlash even tho they seem to be slightly more expensive. This actuator with ballscrew and rails slides like the blocks on my rails even as a unit. lol. Definately a big difference when it comes to size and pre-load.

epineh
08-18-2007, 06:54 PM
P.S Greg, I will definately hold on with 2 hands...just curious tho...how will i press the go button on the computer. lol .Ill have to see if the better half will come out in the cold to help :-)


I couldn't help but smile at this, I did exactly the same thing when I made a quick vid of my servo trial for my router, except I also needed someone to take the video. I had SHMBO "switching" on the servo - AKA holding the motor wires onto the batteries, and my teenage daughter using the camera.

Best of all this was all done on the patio (shed's not built yet), would have kept the neighbours entertained if nothing else :D

Nice work so far, keep the pics coming !

Cheers.

Russell.

Rodm1954
08-18-2007, 07:27 PM
Hi Daniel
Definately try the direct couple first. In any case 5:1 is extreme and my starting point would be 2:1.
Good to see yuor machine moving along.

twistedfuse
08-18-2007, 09:14 PM
Cheers Guys,

Rod, Will keep that in mind with the ratio. The main reason i was going somewhere near that is that my mate has a machine that has almost a 6:1 ratio and watching that machine move was good It was moving pretty fast and his motors are ~269oz or similar. It is almost the size of a car and was alot heavier than what mine is. But i will definately follow the advice of you guys and try before i gear it down/up. Im going to find out from the manufacturer this week just as reference, what it will cost per cart for the same carts but with no/less pre-load.

Cheers again,

More photos to come soon.

Daniel

Rodm1954
08-18-2007, 10:00 PM
Daniel
Which way does your friend have the pulleys going. The 6 on the motor and 1 on the ballscrew?
The problem with steppers is that they have full torque at standstill and then the torque curve drops as soon as they move. Other factors such a resonance come in to it but that just compounds it too much for you at the moment.
To give you an idea I count on about 300RPM from a stepper with a Xylotex board. If you ran this with 1:5 redcution you get 60RPM at the ballscrew and with a pitch of 0.2 inch that is 12 inches per minute or 300mm/min. Your torque will be increased 5 times but I think you should be aiming at a higher rapid than this.
With a Gecko and higher voltage power supply you can improve on these figures but it is a reasonable benchmark.
If you run the pulleys the other way 5:1 then you are looking at 300 in/min or 7.6m/min but with one fifth the torque.
I am happy to be corrected on any of the above information.
With our limited knowledge and home built machines a lot of this is experiemental so best to try direct couple first and this will give you a better idea on where to go. My thoughts are if you need to go higher than 1:2 reduction it is time to sell your motors and go larger. At 1:2 you are around 30 in/min or 760mm/min.

twistedfuse
08-19-2007, 01:39 AM
rod,

Thanks for clearing that one up. It makes sense exactly what you say. ANd i do understand what you mean by the ratio differences. I will definately try to see where and how things will come together before figuring out my next step. Like i said i spose at least i have a couple of options. I can replace the rail carts with less pre-load which should reduce the torque to move it, replace motors and drivers or add gearing to the setup. Either way im sure there will be a way that i will/can get this machine up and running. It will be the main part of having the machine built to improve it and get it running then. I like the look of the machine as its coming together. and cant wait to be cutting or at least watch it move. I was going to spend tuesday building it but i have a few things to do. Maybe wednesday. Thinking im going to try a HDPE piece to couple the tool plate to the ballscrew temporarily just to see if it moves and figure out sizes to make the aluminum one. Gunna have to do a local search for some scrap aluminum thats thick enough.

Cant wait to finish the machine and start building the extras. (Vacuum Clamping, rotary Indexer, coolant tabel/fixture table, tool plates etc). My little book of all good info and ideas is starting to get full. lol

Cheers,
Daniel
(Hoping to try out the gantry axis this week that should test the steppers, and get shown that you guys are right and that i shouldnt underestimate these motors.)

twistedfuse
08-22-2007, 10:38 AM
Hello All,

Slow couple days, been pretty busy with some work so havent had much time in getting stuff together. Looking to spend all day tomorrow on the build and hope that i can get some stuff done. Also going to do some rounds to local engineering mobs to look through their scrap piles of aluminum. Need some thick chuncks to make some parts like the ballscrew to tool plate mount. So i should be getting around to posting a couple more photos tomorrow of the sides and new tool plate with stage attached. Cant wait. Nearly there, with the flue dissipating again, i cant help but stay positive with the build. I did here form the company that sold the rails to me today, they said it should be about a 0.05 co-efficient on any rail reguardless of pre-load. So im staying positive and hoping to link everything together to watch it move soon.

Daniel

twistedfuse
08-23-2007, 08:01 AM
Hello All,

Well i did get round to spending some time today to progress my build. I was able to mount the z axis stage to the tool plate, mount both gantry side walls and clean up a few odds and ends like finding some aluminum thick enoughto make the connector mount. I might think about seeing if anyone in aussie land has some scraps of 12mm+ aluminum and willing to use their mahcine to make up the piece i need. I will obviously pay for their time, material etc. So if anyone does, please PM. I will post the dxf up soon of the part needed as well to give some idea. Roughly the piece will be max dim of 80mm x 80mm.

Well, i know at least today that the machine has come along way and is really starting to look like a cnc machine. Not far off now. All i need ot do now is the connector, mount the main ballscrew and connect it to the gantry which will be easier than the gantry one. After that all thats needed is to mount the steppers and hope for the best. Yes the tool plate will be needed soon too but that can be made from wood for the time being as well as the fact that i'll probably do alot of plotting before i try to cut. lol. Then all the fun should start. Gunna try and make some temp mounts from wood or HDPE to push the build along faster as i was really hoping to get her moving this week. Ah well. Not long before i know the next step. Oh and i am feeling alot better with the gantry axis as it seems to be alot smoother now, the main axis is my only real worry for now.

Cheers, and i hope to post more pictures soon.
Daniel

P.S YAY, Should get tax back soon, more money to add to the build. I think ill hold back for the time being as im sure ill need this for something.

P.P.S Does anyone have an idea of what they think i should get as reliable speeds using this setup? I tried using the program on this site "cnc calc" but couldnt really understand fully some of the inputs. Cheers

twistedfuse
08-23-2007, 07:45 PM
Hello All,

Looking for anyone out there that has used a full stepper driver from keling. I was doing some research into what drivers are available if something was not to work or if i just wanted to change the old motors out and use them on a smaller machine(which is almost certain as i decided last night that i am gunna make one for my PCBs and other smaller items). So i was looking and emailing a few companies and keling replied with a package that would have 960oz/in motors with drivers capable of ~8A each motor. I thought it was reasonable so i was wondering if people think their drivers are any good? Also with drivers like these and geckos do i need a PSU for each driver or just use the one supply? Or should i go with my first instincts and find some one that sells packages that use geckos? If so does anyone know where to get such packages with gekkos? Anyone got any spare there looking to get rid of?

Thanks in advance,
Daniel

RASPNC
08-24-2007, 08:47 AM
Hi Daniel

I got a bit carried away, hope this is of some use.


The machine I'm building looks to be about the same size as yours.

I bought some stepper motors from Keling, 2 No. 270OZin motors (Nema 23 mount for x and z axis) and one 400ozin motor (Nema 34 mount for my y axis).
I figured it would be better to have more power to move the y axis

I also bought a toroidal transformer psu from him.
Very good communication and reasonable prices including shipping (I couldn't find what I wanted in Australia, I would buy from him again).

I've read its better to use an unregulated power supply with geckos thats why I went for the toroidal type from keling. it has a bridge rectifier and capacitors on an attached pcb.
Its fine to use one power supply as long as it can meet the power requirements of your stepper motors.

If you go to the support section of the gecko website there are some very useful pdf documents like "stepper motor basics" and product manuals definately worth reading before you buy anything.

I bought 3 of the fairly new gecko 3203v micro step drives direct from gecko i think they have dropped in price since I purchased them, very good value for money and very good quality so I believe.

http://www.geckodrive.com/



I bought a Breakout Board Plus for Mach2 and Mach3 from the following website it seems to be very good quality.

http://www.campbelldesigns.com/


You could check out their mach3 enclosure you can buy it as a complete package including geckos however they didn't have the new gecko g203v drives when I was first inquiring and shipping to Aus would have been a killer
so I decided to replicate the setup they have using a schroff instrument case that I bought on ebay.


There are some pdf links at the bottom of the following webpage that may be helpful regarding diy assembly of power supplies/geckos/wiring.

http://www.campbelldesigns.com/enclosure.php


"P.P.S Does anyone have an idea of what they think i should get as reliable speeds using this setup? I tried using the program on this site "cnc calc" but couldnt really understand fully some of the inputs. Cheers"

First find a speed/torque chart for your stepper motors.

Keling 282ozin motors have an operating speed range of between approx 500 pps (pulses per second) and 10000 pps.
A stepper motor requires approx 180 pulses per revolution (ppr).

500pps / 180ppr = 2.77 rps (revolutions per second)
10000 pps / 180ppr = 55.56 rps (revolutions per second)

So a 280ozin stepper motor can rotate in the range of 2.77 to 55.56 rps.

I would pick a value in the middle of this range say 30rps.

If you are using a 5 rpi (revolutions per inch) ballscrews rotating at 30rps this would result in 30rps / 5 rpi = 6 inches per second movement.


You may get a maximum speed of around 11 inches per second but when stepepr motors are rotating at their maximum speed there torque approches zero so you couldn't really cut anything at this speed.

I think a reliable speed would be approx 6 inches (approx 24cm) per second.


This does not take into account any cutting forces friction forces etc. You need to make sure the stepper motors have enough grunt to mave your axis and overcome any cutting forces.

But like Greolt said "There are plenty of machines of similar size to yours that run ballscrews much the same as yours, with direct coupled 300 oz motors"

960ozin motors for the machine your currently building may be overkill remember bigger more powerful stepper motors operate at lower speeds.
If you haven't already you should check out the speed torque graphs on the keling website they will give you a good idea if the motors are going meet your speed requirements.

It can be quite annoying waiting for a slow moving machine to move to locations between cuts.
However you could always use gearing if you needed to.

You may be better off getting smaller stepper motors for your smaller pcb router.



You machine is looking good keep up the good work


P.S Thanks for replying to my question the other day regarding your new z axis.


I'll try and upload some pictures to show you where I'm at with my machine (my builds nowhere near as close to completion as yours, good work!)


Cheers,

Nik

twistedfuse
08-27-2007, 03:14 AM
Nik,

Thanks very much for the reply. As with Greg and others you have alot of knowledge in the banks and i will indefinately take it on board. Its has helped me heaps with the links and such as i now know how much it will cost me to upgrade to gekkos. I think it will decide on that after getting the amchine built and figuring out then exactly what i need. I think ill go with 4 axis using the same gekkos you mentioned they seem to be fairly good. The ill order a breakout board and proabably build my own psu or buy one from the link as well. I will only need to buy 1 motor (one of those 640oz/in - Maybe depending on if the machine moves or not) as i am almost certain now that the two smaller axis will move no worries but its mainly the main axis that moves the whole gantry that will be the worry. Well see how everything comes together over the next couple days/weeks. Hopefully more like days than weeks. MAde a mock up of the connector for the plate to the ballscrew out of wood to check measurements and things seemed good so i guess ill take some offcuts to my local mate fabricator and see if hecan do what i need with it. Then it will be put together quicker. Then all that is left is to attach the main ballscrew and add some castors to help move it about alot easier. Then finally make a proper table after muching around witht he machine with the quickie table in place. :-)

Getting O'SO Close. Making the second machine will be alot easier when using the first machine to help. I still have some smaller motors in my box that will suit the smaller machine so at least thats again a bit more of a saving.

Daniel

Thanks again for the great words and am looking forward to seeing some pictures of your machine...maybe with a z axis soon???

twistedfuse
08-28-2007, 09:29 AM
Hello Everyone,

Well tonight i dont think could get any better. Not only was i able to get out my telescope tonight for the fantastic lunar eclipse(blood moon) i was able to get a major part of the cnc done tonight as well.

Ill start witht he CNC, well i was bored last night so i got to making up a whole heap of templates in CAD and testing them to find the size needed for the connector piece so that everything will run straight and true. After i found the size i decided to make up a make-shift one from some MDF laying around just to be absolutely certain. Yup it fits and everything seems to be in order, so first thing this morning, i gathered the Drawigns and headed down to the local metal fab to see what they could do for me, well they had some "scrap" laying around and knocked up the main parts fo the bracket. When i got it home i couldnt believe it, it was perfect, so i went to drilling and tapping the holes that i needed and things came together nicely except the only screws i have to suit were about 5mm too long so i tested the arms and cut the screws with a hacksaw while setting up and waiting for time to get closer to the eclipse. Well everything went together like a charm and not having the right screws to mount the ballscrew nut to the connector piece i decided to just clamp them together and try to test how hard it was to move, i found the hand drill thing in one of the cuboards that hardly gets used, brilliant i connected it and it moved so smoothly and with less effort than i thought(see should have just listened to you guys all along). I dont see too much effort for the motors, so i moved the toolplate and ran it into the spare bearing blocks still attached to see if there was much extra resistance...no, still very easy to move, wow i think even the main axis should be right. These ballscrews really do magnify the forces. i tried seeing if any of the hand weights i had would be heavy enough to move the tool plate so i grabbed a 2.5kg one and added a rope and it was able to move it no worries(i guess there is also a mechanical advantage as there is a length between centre of ballscrew and where the weigh was applied but i think even if i wrapped the rope aroud the ballscrew it would still move). I dont really know if the 300oz/in would move radially with about 2.5kg but im sure after conversion that it would be about that if not more. Am i right? All thats left now is to connect a motor to test it and my theory, but not having the couplers, trying to couple a 1/4" shaft to a 10mm shaft, will be very interesting. Might just order through sdp-si instead cause the local bloke is just stuffing me around. The rest of the mounting of the second ballscrew hopefully will be done tomorrow as im running on a high right now, so im wanting to connect everything alot quicker now. Heres hoping its done tomorrow so i can test it all.

As for the lunar extravaganza, it was truely amazing to watch our closest neighbour turn a blood red colour and to watch it as the shadows danced across its face. I was outside for most of it using my telescope which is another hobby(CNC will make many a good things for the telescope when complete). I attached a picture of my telescope and a picture of the blood red moon just in case anyone missed it. Oh yeah, i didnt have any special ccd tele-camera yet so the photo isnt the best, but its great to me since all i did was use a standard digital camera and hold it up to my eyepiece(plus even tho its a bit fuzzy, i also got one of its moons in there too - spec at bottom of the moon).

Hope you enjoy.

Daniel

epineh
08-28-2007, 10:17 PM
Nice work on the router and thanks for the moon pic, we had nothin' but rain here to look at... ah well at least the grass is growing :)

Russell.

twistedfuse
08-29-2007, 12:48 AM
Russell,

Man that would suck. Yeah the grass is getting greener at least. Thanks for the comments, i have to go to tafe tonight which sucks cause i would have spent the time building the last couple of mounts to mock up and get them made tomorrow so it would be pretty much done. Alas all ive been able to do so far is just bolt the connector piece in place as well as the actuator. Would really like to complete the mount tomorrow and get some sort of testing done. Will try what was said earlier and use some tube and clamps to test the axis. Will post results and photos tomorrow hopefully.

Daniel
Even closer still. Not too far to go, having a ball buidling and running on the high.

Greolt
08-29-2007, 05:13 AM
Daniel

If you're still having trouble getting flex couplers I could get some here and bore them out to 3/8" and send them to you.

$17.60 last time I got some.

Greg

twistedfuse
08-29-2007, 05:23 AM
Greg,

Its like musical forums. lol. Ill PM you right now to talk about it as that would be great. Figure out a price and ill tell you what i need.

Talk soon,
Daniel

twistedfuse
08-30-2007, 12:31 AM
Hello Everyone,

Great news today, got all the parts needed for the main exis to be assembled today. All thats left now is to bolt these to the framework and it'll be ready for motors and its first major test run.

More good news is that i did my usual test of the axis by clamping everyhting together and placing the old hand-drill on it and turning it. Man it moves smoothly and the small movements i could feel were from the parts moving cause i hadnt clamped it properly. I then decided to try something out, i decided to replace the hand-drill with a power drill and hooked it up, and it has no problems moving the whole gantry, man i think i was doing backflips. I think im not going to know what to do with myself when i complete it and watch it run. Ill be doing backflips running around pumping the air with my fists. lol. Anyway, i dont really know what type of power the drill is but im sure that these output as much torque as the 300oz/in motors or maybe less not too sure but at least i know its not as bad as i originally thought. These ballscrews make easy work of the weight.

Really happy with my build now, justgot to finish it. Not long now till i can post some pictures of some work. Thansk again to everyone for their input so far, i will post more photos of the whole thing without clamps, just a bummer i have to go to work now.

Daniel

twistedfuse
08-30-2007, 08:41 AM
Well,

All the main parts are bolted on, just need to replace the bolts i used today as i stole most of them from my gantry so i could have the main axis ready. Everything came together nicely, just had to place a shim between the ballnut mount and the gantry mounting point as it seems to be warped or something else. It was late when i was done so i havent had much chance to figure it out but for the time being the shim is working great. Again, added the electric drill to the ballscrew to double check and it moves so smoothly, why was i as bothered as i was. Someone might like to tell me how much roughly an electric drill would output in torque. I was jsut curious cause i would think it wouldn't be as much as steppers but im not sure. That way i can definately say the steppers will work. I think at worst it will need a 1:2 reduction gear to give it a little extra oomph.

A big thanks to greg for helping me out with the couplers, he was kind enough to get some for me and bore them out to the size i needed, he truely is a champion, so i look forward to getting them soon and having this baby moving by early next week if not by the weekend. The Last major things to do tomorrow or early next week is figure out how to mount my motor to my main axis. It is going to be tricky but it shouldnt be too hard. Other than that, my original plan to put locking wheels in the corners has faulted with not enough room so another way of mounting will have to be devised.

Anyway, tomorrow will be busy before work, try to get the motor mounts designed and also make up a wooden tool plate holder. That way im ready for the grand test. Ill also have to try and get in contact with my mate Carl(another champion) and get my nameplate made up as it wont be long before ill have to mount it. Its good, the last few steps have flown past and things are looking great, m mind is a little easier for the fact that i know now that alot of the effort and money invested were not wasted in a project that i couldn't complete/wouldnt work.

Thanks again to all so far, heres hoping to hear the good news in the next few days. Maybe a picture or two of some tests followed by a few questions im sure, about how to do things in cad etc.

Daniel

P.S I will post some photos of the machine bolted together when i get the right screws in place and everything looks neat and tidy again...until it gets covered in dust. :-)

crocky
09-02-2007, 07:15 PM
Daniel

If you're still having trouble getting flex couplers I could get some here and bore them out to 3/8" and send them to you.

$17.60 last time I got some.

Greg

That picture looks familiar :)

twistedfuse
09-03-2007, 03:26 AM
Hello All,

Well today was a great day, finished work at about 3 today and went home to find a mail pickup form. Had to wait about an hour before i could pickup the items. When i got down there i recieved a package from greg and bob. Thanks guys. You are true champions.

I finally have some couplings after all the hassle i had locally. Greg was even king enough to bore them out for me and they fit great. Huge difference between these couplings and the jaycar ones. lol. Tomorrow will be a day of trying to chase up the standoffs needed for the motor mounts and a small mounting plate for the main axis that some smaller standoffs need to be mounted to to allow the motor to be connected. After that all thats left is the tool plate, a proper spindle, proper table and then finally mounting the whole cnc up off the floor onto a nice stand of some sort.

Bobs package was equally as exciting it had a coupling fo very interesting parts that i needed, that i really needed to get my machine off and running. Thanks bob.

So tonight will be fun, just about to unhook the computer and take it out to the garage and hook up all the electronics to see if the motors will turn freely and move the gantry which right now, i feel will have no problem what so ever. Will bring it back in tonight and let you all know how i go.

Thanks again,
Daniel

P.S BTW, the photos are still on their way. I think ill post them when i get the standoffs on tomorrow. Cant wait.

WillyInAus
09-03-2007, 05:41 AM
Hi Daniel

Cant wait, pics videos more more more lol, good to see another Aus made machine :rainfro:

Willy

twistedfuse
09-03-2007, 06:28 AM
Well,

Unfortunately willie there are no photos yet but you guys out there were right. I just finished in the garage and finished having fun watching the different axis move under stepper power. Boy was it fantastic. I picked it, i was running around screaming and chanting and fist pumping and more. Now i was only holding it and didnt give my neighbours a show unlike others in the thread ...lol. But im sure they were trying to figure out what all the fuss was.

Im extremely happy to see it move so smoothly and effortlessly considering the steppers are only running at about 70% of their rated torque. Im flawed at the accuracy i got from just holding on. I cant wait to get the last few parts made and assembled(hopefully tomorrow) and see it all bolted together, minus the table and stand. It definately feels great to see that list of to-do's shorten and the to-fix lengthen. lol.

Hopefully i will get some photos of the machine tomorrow with mounted steppers and maybe a few plottings and tests. Then ill figure out a quick dremel mount and try that.

I cant beieve it, all this work has come together, it just shows what someone can achieve(design, cad, machine, enjoy etc) with the support of people like you guys and great sites like this one.

Look forward to posting alot more over the next couple of days and into the future. Also the CNC bug has bitten me big time. My CAD design for my smaller PCB machine is also in action, although it will be a while, need to save some more funds.

Daniel

crocky
09-03-2007, 06:38 AM
Good show :)

There won't be any stopping you now :)

Bob

twistedfuse
09-04-2007, 07:53 AM
Well Guys,

Today was the day, i waited the whole day for my mate(another champion) carl who kindly made up the standoffs for my motors. I got them around 4.30ish and by the time 5 rolled around, i had the machine plotting. It destroyed my pen way faster than i wanted it to so i decided to go for broke after figuring out the major flaws. I chucked on a dremel tool into a cheaply made mount using the screw clamps and placed a small bit in the tooling. Adjusted my z height and stared it all up. HAd the machine running at about 500mm/min in mach 3 but within 5min i had a machined piece. But what is this, everything is out of alignment. Hmm, i guess im still having problems with my rapids, so i decided to edit my codes and replace all G0 to G1 and see how that went. Also i changed the tool bit from a round to a v-cutter.

Started again, this time at 1000mm/min. MAn was i doing backflips now, it was amazing how well the machine worked. I was flawed that it did work. lol. I have been running on a high all night its just a bummer my better half and i have some things to do so i cant get back to it till late tomorrow.

I cant wait tho, all thats left is the frame work to lift the router and put it on wheels, the router mounting and router, seperate computer then to clean up all the wiring. Then fix all the small things to make it work a hundred times better.

Oh and i also have to take some photos which i will indefinately get done tomorrow for you guys as im sure your all itching to see it. As for movies well im on dial up so i guess ill have to go into work and upload some.

It amazing guys and i thank all of you for all your help so far. I guess my main question for now is the one about my rapids. Where are the settings to set this speed maximuim or how do people recomend to fix it, tuning the motors didnt have too much effect it just seems to skip that. Maybe i have my output pulses wrong or something. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Daniel

P.S Will post photos of machine tomorrow night for you all, will also test the speed of the machine at something like 2000mm/min. ANy reccomendations as to what speeds people think should be tested(KNowing full well that during actual machineing i wont be doing these speeds, just want to get a gist of my max speed). Oh and if i get time tomorrow, going to see if i can buy scraps of plexi and other plastics form a local plastics/perspects supplier.

P.P.S I better be getting back to the other half before i get in trouble, just wanted to share the great news as she is sick of me telling her how well it worked. :-)

Rodm1954
09-04-2007, 09:00 AM
Hi Daniel

Well done and we all knew it was going to work all the time. All that worry for nothing. :)

Full credit to you because at the end of the day it is you that makes the decisions and is in control of your project. You certainly have something to be proud of and I hope you wear that big grin for at least a week. :)

Your motor tuning determines your rapids. Work in 1000mm/min increments until the motor stalls. Then work in 500mm/min and finally 200mm/min to fine tune it. Once you have found the fastest speed it will do without stalling reset that figure to 20 per cent less as a safety margin.

Enjoy you new found hobby and yes lets see some pictures.

twistedfuse
09-06-2007, 06:04 AM
Hello Guys,

Sorry its been longer than i originally thought it would, i had tafe last night which took alot longer than i originally thought it was going to, then when i got home i couldn't get onto the zone. Then this morning i couldnt wait to spend some time on the machine. Man it is amazing. I finished making a table for it for the time being until i align everything and get out to buy an aluminum one. Added the last few bolts today to make everyhting neat and tidy(well machine wise for now). The wiring mess will be fixed once i find a good supplier of 8core. Bummer since the local auto place actually sells it in 7 core. Ah well might browse farnell or rs australia.

Like Rod said, why did i bother worrying, its always the way, but io actually got my first good sleep in a while last night, although that will be short lived since ill be now looking to mount a proper spindle and tool plate. I might also try to buy an electric dc brushless to lower the noise, that way i might be able to get a bit more machineing in late at night. I definately need to mount a spindle properly so i can add a vacuum to it, since i machined the miner and it took along time, sitting there with the vacuum in hand is pretty boring(not today tho as i was fascinated by it running). Also i definately need to mount it up off the floor soon, and buy/build a computer as its a pain continuously having to take the main tower i have off and connecting it to the gear in the garage. Put in my network cabling today so that when im done i can direct transfer to the garage pc when hooked into the wall mounted network point.

Anyway, time for some results. I did a few test cuts and spent most of the day learning different software and figuring out which cutters do what. Attached i have the miner which i am extremely pleased with(got to try engraving it tho), a test piece that was first up, some HDPE test pieces and an overall of the machine with the full length table in place.

It wont be long and ill have to mount my name plate(alot sooner than i thought). I have an idea for the wiring where ill use the loom tube, grommets and new cabling to allow all cables to run indside the hollow tubes.

I also played around with the mounting today to figure out why the machine would get stuck nearing the ends of the travels. I fixed one side however i still have about 50mm one end that i cannot get to work. Ill just have to nut this one out. The motor tuning helped but my steppers are still stalling and not following the G0(rapid) command, it just skipps it and then everything is out of wack.

Now its a matter of figuring out what to make with this machine. There are so many ideas running through my brain its starting to hurt. lol.

I thank rod and the many other who have emailed me and given me support and the kind workds especially after i got it running. It great to have the support otherwise this would still be a heap of parts. lol.

Cheers and thanks again, will take photos of anything specific as usual as well as answer any questions.

Daniel
(Very Excited)

P.S Also i was able to run the machine at 2500mm/min with no worries, however i have set a limit of 1500mm/min to be sure. Just got to figure out the rapids and all will be good.

P.P.S For some reason since last night i have been having huge problems with the zone, now i cant post pictures so ill try them in a different post and then maybe one at a time if that is what it will take

twistedfuse
09-06-2007, 06:08 AM
Wow,

For some reason some pictures came through. I cant seem to add more so ill just stick with these for now. I hope you like them

Daniel

WillyInAus
09-06-2007, 06:19 AM
:wee: Good work and Congratulations big guy.

Go have yourself a beer or two.

Willy

crocky
09-06-2007, 06:20 AM
Wow,

For some reason some pictures came through. I cant seem to add more so ill just stick with these for now. I hope you like them

Daniel

Hi Daniel,

Looks good :)

Bob

Greolt
09-06-2007, 06:32 AM
Great stuff Daniel. Good to see it all together and going. :cheers:




I also played around with the mounting today to figure out why the machine would get stuck nearing the ends of the travels. I fixed one side however i still have about 50mm one end that i cannot get to work. Ill just have to nut this one out.


Sounds to me like you have an alignment issue with a screw. That would likely bind up in the last bit of travel at one or both ends.

If the two bearing supports and the nut do not line up exactly then the screw flexing would allow free movement in the middle of travel
but as the nut got closer to the fixed bearing, at the end of travel, then any misalignment would make it start to bind.

Any way well done and more pics please. :)

Greg

rcpilot82
09-07-2007, 09:17 AM
Do you happen to have any video of this thing in action?

WillyInAus
09-07-2007, 06:06 PM
Do you happen to have any video of this thing in action?

yep we are all waiting :), but thats ok I think he probably has better things to do then make a video like play with the toy some more.:)

Willy

twistedfuse
09-07-2007, 07:02 PM
Hey Guys,

Im currently at work so i havent really had much time to play with the toy either. A video is definately on it way. Like i said i am on dial up so it will probably be very short or maybe ill post it somewhere and take it to work to do so, that way i can upload it alot quicker. Its just the fact that there are so many different things to build and make its hard to figure out which comes first. lol.

Daniel

twistedfuse
09-11-2007, 04:07 AM
Hey Guys,

Still working hard currently, so havent really had a chance to muck around with the cnc too much but have been experimenting and learning the software. Got most of the 2d stuff going like signs, but will need to learn alot more 2.5d stuff. Here is a small sign i made for fun, i just bought a few engraving bits made by dremel they were at bunnings. Anyone in australia have a better place to buy all types of cutters? I need to also find the d type cutters for aluminum and brass engraving.

I did order my new router. Its a metabo 700W variable speed die grinder. Cant wait, it should be here tomorrow, so i can figure out proper mounting for it and get my machine in order.

Also i test milled aluminum with the cheapy bits and got a really good result surprisingly. So even with the wooded, cheapy grinder mount , it was able to do it, so cant wait to have the die grinder mounted perminately, that will also help considering i will also make a dust boot for it. Will prevent my muscles getting sore having to hold the vacuum by hand. lol.

Anyway, will get a video most likely tomorrow of it in action and try to post it.

Daniel

rcpilot82
09-11-2007, 07:26 PM
Looks good! Glad to see it performing well for you. Now I really want a cnc router!

twistedfuse
09-12-2007, 03:15 AM
rcpilot,

It wont take you long. Im really enjoying the machine, today i learnt the 2.5d stuff and was able to mill a concave inward and an extruded heart for my girlfriend. I will post pictures soon, they didnt turn out very well as the wood wasnt the best and the plastic test was then filled with liquid paper and covered with black marker. Not the best paint and fill method. lol.

Anyway i will post them soon.

Daniel

P.S Rcpilot, i am still gathering up the plans i worked from and just updating the things i changed to get it working a little better. Some things arent on there yet but when you get to them just ask and ill post some picures or draw up the cad of it.

P.P.S Got my new metabo die grinder today, really happy with it. Also got a really nice pressie from my great mate carl, it was a 1/4" ballnose cutter for aluminum. Cant wait to get the grinder in place and give it a test run. Some pictures of them too. Man when i thought i was finished i am just starting the rest of the stuff like framing and mounts and looking at vacuum clamping or coolant 4th axis, 5th axis, dust extraction etc. Its never ending, but so fun.

twistedfuse
09-12-2007, 09:34 AM
Hey guys,

well i promised some pictures for you and here they are. I have been playing around for the last half and hour to an hour trying to get the video i wanted reduced in size so i could upload it for you guys. Problem is tho, with dial up i would need something around 8mb to suit me but alas i couldnt get it that far for you guys. I will try all i can but worse comes to worse ill try and upload it over the weekend while im at work. :-)

Anyway, getting the hang of this 2.5d stuff. The software makes more sense now. The only problem i see now is when doing these type they take alot longer to machine and without the proper spindle in place with a vacuum shoe, i dont see it happening till the new die grinder is mounted. Speaking of which i have come across another problem, i need to try and make something to suit some small 2.4mm bits used in the old dremel that will adapt it to the new grinder as Metabo only make a 3mm collet as their smallest one. Might try a pin vice but hey im sure once i get the proper router bits ill never look to use them, but it would be good to have the option.

Well got pricing on the metal for the new frame work so i can lift it off the gorund. So that will be coming along very shortly...hopefully. Other than that i guess the only other thing i neeed to look at is a simple fixture holddown technique as the clamps are getting annoying. I think ill either do the reverse mill for the m8 nut and use bolts through the table, or ill try and get me some of those ones you belt into the table hole. Right now just browsing the zone for more wonderful ideas and techniques, not to mention im downloading all new fonts to use with the machine. lol.

Anyway, as usual any question just message, Always willing to listen to any reccomendations, questions etc.

Daniel

rcpilot82
09-12-2007, 01:02 PM
Thats great looking!! good job! as far as the plans go take your time, I can wait till they are done. for a vac press, goto www.joewoodworker.com and look there. I made mine for vac bagging wings and am adapting it to use for a hold down on the router when I build it (this winter) if you need any help figuring out the vac-pump stuff let me know.
Robby

twistedfuse
09-13-2007, 09:35 AM
robby,

yeah that looks great. Would really comein handy when i decide to add veneer to my projects. I think from memory, that in australia its hard to get ahold of those vacuum pumps for a decent price(Seems to be the trend in australia with great things like this and linear bearings...lol). Could be wrong tho. I do remember a mention on one post in particular that we can mod a fridge compressor or small air compressor. Either way ill figure it out. UNless it'll be less than 200 bucks itll have to wait so i can save up and make some money back hopefully with the cnc.

Nearly got the new router mounted so i cant wait. Just have to find new bits for it tho. I think im going to need to change the design to make it work tho. Ahwell. Live and learn.

Daniel

P.S Robby, which method did you choose for the vacuum? Also did you buy a kit?

rcpilot82
09-13-2007, 10:51 AM
Daniel, I currently am using a 110v fridge compressor for a pump.(those specialized pumps are expensive in the states too) I made my systems reservoirs from 2- 25# propane tanks(USE CAUTION when working with tanks that have not been emptied,cleaned,and de-oderized) I made my own "kit" using the info on the joe woodworker site. I did NOT use that expensive mac-valve setup as it was not needed for my system. I'll see if I can find some pics. note:I am in the process of updating my pump to a 110v air conditioner compressor because it will have more "suction" volume for the clamping and hold down options. also I am going to be switching my propane tanks for a 25 gallon air comp. tank for the ultimate in reserve capacity! You should have no prob. making one for under $200. mine was about $175 WITH all of my bags and clamps for wing vac-bagging. If you plan on doing veneer you will want a large reservoir if you have a "slow" pump.hope this helps. I'll go see if I can find pics.
Robby

twistedfuse
09-17-2007, 07:55 AM
HEllo Guys,

Been a few days since i last posted so i thought i'd get on while browsing around the zone and keep you informed of where im at.

I am currently waiting on the material i need to build the machine mounting frame, which i hope isnt to far away as im really hoping to have it finished and painted by weeks end. Also just waiting on a couple of small parts to allow me to mount the new router and then it will be time for a dust shoe. I am hoping that the lot of this will be done by early this week(wednesday at latest) but will have to see. Then i guess it will be time for a nameplate on the cnc to show that it is complete. Still deciding on what colour i will want the stand but ill cross that when i get the RHS welded together.

The other thing i was hoping hat someone could help me out with is, im looking to re-wire the machine so i can hide all the wires inside the tube frame using loom tube and grommets to protect it but i need a source of 8core shielded wire. I did try RS components but i really dont want a 100m roll of the stuff. Anyone know wher ei can get some good stuff by the metre???

Anyway, i am still going to upload a video but havent really gotten a chance, more pictures to come as soon as i get the router mounted.

Daniel

P.S Oh, i guess i should let you all know that i made the table holdown fixture over the weekend. Just did a very simple drill pattern in the MDF table and used t-nuts underneath to allow me to add a m8 bolt through the top. Simple yet effective. Oh and amusing when you ask the assistant for 10+ packets of t-nuts. lol.

rcpilot82
09-17-2007, 10:59 AM
would this wire work?? http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=100-420 the link is for a 100ft roll but you can get it in shorter lengths. just a thought.

twistedfuse
09-18-2007, 06:32 AM
Hello Everyone,

Well in between some painting today i was able to get a router mount to suffice until i get the proper ones made/make them myself. Very happy with the mount and am very surprised that this one mount is strong enough to hold it. It is made from 16mm plate and very basic. I will make a second one for the top end of the die grinder just to stop any movement at all. This will be made shortly, maybe ill make a temp one up out of HDPE using the machine.

I also went searching today for a chuck to put into the die grinder. This was because alot of the small dremel bits i had previously used were still good but i couldnt use them since the smallest collet i could get was 3mm and their shafts were 2.4mm. So i decided to get a chuck for the die grinder and turn down the shaft to suit the 1/4" collet. While getting some wire at dick smith today i found this small keyless chuck. Turned down, it fits great. Problem is, im not too happy with the cheap manufacture as the first bit i used luckily went flying away from me after switching it on and making the first cut. The second one after tightening it up alot seemed to hold great, but there is flex in the bits shaft as i cannot get the shaft in far enough. I think i'll either cut the shafts in half or see if its possible to mount a full size(or mini if there is such a thing) keyed chuck into the die grinder. Anyone know of any small chucks out there that use a key?

Since i havent heard from my mate ive got a feeling the frame work isnt in which is a bugger since i was really hoping to have it up and off the floor since i got a computer today. SO its going to be a while before everything is properly mounted and it makes it hard to walk around the wiring mess. Ah well.

Robby, i have a full 400m roll of shielded cat 5 cabling that is 8core, problem is i dont like the nature of the wiring inside, excessive movement back and forth would break these wires pretty easily. Also im not too sure wether these wires can handle 3A running along them. Anyone have any idea. II havent the clue. Thanks for the ideas tho, im still searching. IF worse comes to worse ill just get the 7 core stuff from the auto shop and cable tie and extra to the outside and encase the lot with loom tube.

Anyway, its great to see things coming together. Tomorrows job will be to add stiffeners to the tool plate and hopefully design a simple HDPE Dust Shoe for now. Also im going to go and see if i can get some proper 1/4" bits. The one i have(the carbide ballnose endmill) looks so sturdy compared to the chuck in the die grinder. lol

Daniel.

P.S SO more updated pictures for you. Since i was painting i decided to try and paint some MDF without primer and see how that would work. You can see them in a couple of the pictures. Looks better than just plain MDF looks. I just cant stop getting furry edges, anyone got any tips? Also where should i look to get some nicer woods? Got some stain laying around here somewhere and alot of primer and a coupler of glosses and colours. Cant wait.

P.P.S The last picture in the group is a rendering of what i hope the complete machine will look like when mounted to its frame work. It is missing the wheels underneath and the vacuum system. But they are coming.

rcpilot82
09-18-2007, 10:19 AM
Looks Great! I'm working on making a designated space for mine in the workshop this week.I hope to have it running by the end of the year (cash is a little tight right now so I'll have to try and get it piece by piece starting with the frame)

twistedfuse
09-18-2007, 06:11 PM
Thanks for the great words. Im happy with it and when the frame work is done ill be even happier because ill be able to move it around. lol. I went for a more complex design on my mopunting frame because i wanted different sections to cater for the computer etc. Its a bit more welding and hard work but i think it will be worth while when everything is seperate. Im also hoping to see if i can get some old Rack Mounts and move the electronics into them, bit more room and that way i can neaten up the wiring too.

You shouldnt have a problem in building it and having it running before the years up. I spent alot of time procrastinating and searching for parts along the way. If all the parts had been here before i started, i think it would only take a couple weeks. You'll definately have to post you progress, ill be definately watching and helpinig where i can if you do.

Today, i just got an old computer from a friend. Just about to go and check the specs and hopefully change it to XP Pro and add some Ram top make it faster. Thats todays job. Thats if i dont hear from my mate with the RHS. Then that will be top priority. lol

Thanks again, will post more pictures soon.
Daniel

rcpilot82
09-18-2007, 09:21 PM
Ok,as promised here are the pics of my vac-pump setup. it is crude looking but it works great. like i said i am in the process of making a HUGE reservoir that will help me out with what i use it for (ok so it's overkill but I wanna do it). the only thing you may want to do different than my setup daniel, is to make a larger "suction" line,and install a filter. i use 1/8"id tube and thats too small for what you'll be doing.let me know if you need any further explanation. Also, I got your PM thanks a ton, really appreciate the help!

twistedfuse
09-19-2007, 09:35 AM
Hey Robby,

Thanks very much for the pictures of your vac build. Very nice and gives me great hope. Also i was curious what plane(If it is the frame to one) you building in the background of 2 of the photos there? Very nice. I have also just emailed you tonight with all the CAD files so far. That shoudl keep you going until i get the rest in order. lol.

Tomorrow, im looking to have added a dust shoe to the router, im tired of sitting there(although great to watch), i could be back at the design computer designing more. Especially if its a photoe carve of some type, now im not going to sit there for 2-3hrs to hold a vacuum. Simple one first just to contain the chips for now and then ill make a full mount one to allow me to swivel it out so i can change the bits.

This also leads me to a question. What is the best software out there for picture conversion. Ive heard of great things of programs such as Artcam, VCarve Photo, Image to Gcode, imagecarve. Which have people used and which would work great. Just need my last few carbite engraving tips and the dust shoe to start them. I have a few people wondering if i can do it. So want to do something constructive until the RHS for the framing arrives. Little later than i thought but i dont mind. Im amused by the CNC and trying to find a secondhand computer to meet my specs. lol.

Thanks again,
Daniel

rcpilot82
09-19-2007, 10:45 AM
Daniel, thanks for the kind words. the aircraft in the background is a 1/4 scale Monocoupe 110 I am scratch building. 88" wing span 79" length. it will run on a converted weed whacker engine. I can tell you this,it would be ALOT more fun to build if i had this router to cut parts out! the wing that you see in a vac-bag is for a 34% Extra 300l that I made. the wingspan on it is 105" and 98" length,weighs 27 pounds, and is powered by a 100cc twin cyl. gas engine.yeah i'm obsessed.thanks 4 the e-mails i'll check em when I get home.

twistedfuse
09-20-2007, 07:03 AM
Hey All,

Well today was great for me. I did some searching around today for the brush to add to a dust boot. Now i didnt find any like i have seen(over 1" in brush length nor soft enough to bend) but i did end up buying one of those door runners to allow me to make up a cheap mount while i design a better mount for what i want. I have a really good idea in mind but not to sure if it will work but i will figure that out later.

Well i did mount the dust boot which is a huge bonus because i was able to try things that take alot longer and rather than sitting at a machine holding a vacuum cleaner handle it allows me to walk away and check it periodically. So todays first idea was to try the raster - vector bitmap conversion. I did a quick trip into town to get a little better wood, so i got a cheap piece of pine that will do the job, i also picked up some aussie jarrah stain in case it actually worked. I tried all the shops off the top of my head that would have a 6mm V bit with 60 degree or less angle. No luck so i was stuck with a 6mm- 90 degree v bit i bought earlier. I decided to do a simple one first without all the colours so i did up a quick one with a logo from a console game which is due to be released next week at work that i had on my computer after doing a promo poster.

WOW, im am flawed at how well this thing worked since i was taking a max depth of only 0.7mm. Flawless. Wow i can only imaging how good this may look with a better bit in the die grinder. It has some blurry bits in the photo that can be seen in the picture around the main areas so it isnt a fault if you see it. Attached are the before and after pictures of the halo 3 etch to prove it...lol. It hasnt been stained since i will do a bigger one for the shop later.

Hope you all like it.

Daniel

twistedfuse
09-20-2007, 07:24 AM
Hello Again,

Well if you thought the previous halo 3 etch was great then you should really like this one. I was curious what to do next, i wanted to do one that is the same as a standard photo(6" x 4") while i paint my selves i built for my electronics workbench. Well while browsing through some photos i came across a nice one of my brother his baby. I thought i'd be able to do up a nice one when i get it right, add a nice frame and cut it out. So again, went through the same steps and got to the point of engraving it. Set it up...man do i need to build one of those tool height indicators(any ideas anyone? I know its a simple button in a shell but what button any tried and true plans/photos/ideas?)...and i went to painting the shelves i had to do. Least its the last coat. Its a big shelf set when you start painting it, not to mention when you have to do it 3 times(primer - paint - paint).

Anyway, a good relief from painting was a phone call from my mate. Is he a champion or what. He came through again for me, got me the RHS and cut it to the lengths i needed so it can be welded. Cant wait since it will mean im coming to the end of the build. Getting closer each day.

Well i cam back from his work and continued painting the shelves and what good timing, i was just finishing the shelves when i heard the familiar noise of the steppers returning to the home position. Oh boy. I was shocked with what i saw. This was fantastic. There is alot more that could be done to it before etching it like lighting and contrast and removing the backdrop or removing most of the detail. But other than that i am loving what the machine can do. I have just applied the aussie jarrah to it so i will send photos through as soon as i lightly sand it tomorrow to bring out the highlights before clear glazing the piece.

Is there nothing these machines can do? I dont know why i didnt just do it the first time(2-3yrs ago) as im slapping myself for that and still over the fact i was so worried about the build. Be that a lesson to all those out there willing to build a machine, always take the great advice given by so many on here.

Daniel

P.S Again i have attached the two photos for comparison. The actual engrave picture maybe a little hard to see all the detail but its there alright.

Greolt
09-20-2007, 07:47 AM
Set it up...man do i need to build one of those tool height indicators(any ideas anyone?

I know its a simple button in a shell but what button any tried and true plans/photos/ideas?)...

Daniel


It's dead easy Daniel. Just have read of the first post in this thread.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36099

And give us a yell if your not sure on any of it.

Tried an true it is.

Good to see you're starting to see what your machine can do.:)

Greg

twistedfuse
09-20-2007, 07:56 AM
Greg,

Thanks for the link. You know its funny. I should really broaden my zone searches. I only found one link to one that used a simple closed circuit, using the bit and some copper clad board.

***just checked the link, its the same method but seems very popular so i will try this one first. I would prefere a button type to make it a little easier to set up with less fiddling. and also to make it look a little neater and add some more cool factor...lol.***

Thanks again for all your help, i wouldnt be seeing what i could do if it werent for the couplers and advice.

Thanks again,

Daniel

rcpilot82
09-20-2007, 10:22 AM
awsome!! Ok, I'm hooked gotta get this thing built! I may have a lead on some stepper motors out of a large format copier. that would be cool if they are any good! how about some video? again, great job!

rcpilot82
09-21-2007, 07:56 AM
Well, I have aquired the first component to my router. I got a sanyo-denki syn-step. nema23 117 oz 1.8deg,1.5 amp,6wire stepper. I also am expecting a call from a copier repair center on more steppers. hopefully I'll have all the steppers by the end of next week. Daniel, how is your dust shoe working so far? I know I will need one with what I will be cutting.

twistedfuse
09-21-2007, 07:05 PM
Hey All,

More good news today, my frame work is welded and as soon as i get time i just need to add a few simple drill holes for some bolts and lift the cnc up and put it on the frame. YAY. Ill be able to move it. That will be short lived when i decide to prime it(its already pre-primed but i think it will be worth it as one day this will have coolant running) and paint it. At least that wont take long, and i can do some work with it while i do. I will get photos as soon as possible for you guys when the machine is ontop of its "pedistal". lol. Also good news, my mate who came through for the frame RHS is going to plasma cut my name plate this weekend he said so i should have it soon. That will be the icing on the cake. Then its just improvements and electronics stuff to fix.

Robby, Way to go, your already on your way. It wont be long and you'll have all the parts you'll need. What driver boards were you thinking of using? In the good old USA youll at least be able to get really good bargins and theyre alot cheaper cause you dont need expensive shipping. lol. I would use homeshop cnc for your ballscrews. If i hadnt got them from local suppliers here in aus i would have as they were cheap and from what i hear great.

As for the dust shoe, its working well. Its just cable tied on one side and the other is just a tight fit so it just sits there and works a treat. Could and will be better when i have the option to lower it and raise it with my new design since when doing plastic little bits fly underneath and out. My new design will work by placing a long aluminum rod into the dust shoe that extends upwards(one on each side). This will go up and through a tight fitting aluminum tube fixed to the bottom of the tool plate. Throught the 2 i will drill a small hole to suit a cotter pin. The long one from the dust shoe will be drilled to suit alot of different heights. At the top of one from the dust shoe will be a second cotter pin, this will allow me to drop it and swivil it out of the way for tool changes. At the bottom of the two on the tool plate there will we a washer that sits around the edge, this will be used as a seat for a spring between this and the shoe. That way when doing multiple depths the shoe will sit on the work and as it plunges it will still sit flush. It sounds sorta complicated but when i draw it its simple. I havent seen anything like this on the zone but im sure someone must be using similar, if not i think it wont be long and there will be a few different designs.

Anyway, will get back to you soon, with a sketch and also some photos of the frame work and more completed works as well as those photos stained. Thanks again everyone.

Daniel

twistedfuse
09-21-2007, 07:35 PM
Hey All,

Well i stood here for a while and i think everyone wants to sleep in today cause its so slow at work. I have had 1 customer in 1 hour. lol. That means midday will be a huge rush.

Good news is tho, i was able to do up a quick design in word for my dust shoe design. I guess that proves that you dont really need expensive CAD software...although it does help.lol.

Anyway, if any one has any improvements or comments etc please dont hold back.

Daniel

twistedfuse
09-22-2007, 01:47 AM
Hello Again,

After abit of thought and thinking about the design. I realise that to allow the dust shoe to move up and down, the cotter pins would ahve to be relocated above the tube on the tool plate so that they are used as a maximum stop so when pressure is applied it moves upward, that or i would have to figure out a working slot design in the rod that goes through the tube but i think it would be much easier to attach the cotter pins above and use them as stops. Simple yet effective. It should be very simple to implement and should work great. Will do up a design in a CAD software to show you properly.

Just proves that by drawing and seeing the design you can do alot before wasting your time and effort. lol. Thansk again All.

Daniel

twistedfuse
09-25-2007, 07:33 AM
Hello All,

Well good news is that i have had time to play around for the past couple days and seeing some really happy faces and hearing great things of the machine and results. A few people are going to get stuff done very soon which will be great. Still ironing out a few bugs and found that i really need only a couple things to make me extremely happy for now.

1. An angular piece(mentioned earlier in the thread and suggested by a reader) that sits between the gantry bottom span and its uprights just to add a little more stability.
2. A new tool plate made from 10mm+ aluminum. After my first milling of aluminum today i noticed the 6mm does strain a little. It would also have the new floating dust shoe on it to minimise chucking swarf all over the place.
3. A new computer since im still sick of lugging the main computer out to the garage and back.

Attached are the photos of the router now bolted to the new frame work. A photo of a sign that i made for a friend that is an engineer who was most intreged, im sure ill have a few jobs from him. A machinist error sign... the half cut blue sign. Slooks really good but always helps to make sure you oriantate the wood and remember which axis was which. And finally there are a couple of photos of the endmills i bought. This could also be a problem since they are pretty cheap bits but they do work and until im used to it i dont want to break expensive bits. I was cutting at 0.5 incrememnts at 400mm/min with the router running at about 8000RPM. I think upping the feedrate and lowering the increments would result in a smoother cut. A light spray with cutting fluid was applied every now and then. The test was meant to be a clamp for the table to help with holding the workpieces but i ran out of room and gave up after i cut the first full slot in the 10mm aluminum.

So things are great from my side. Just started cutting out the parts completely with the machine. Really confident with the machine. So all thats left other than upgrades is to re-mount the bearing endmounts on the main axis as i found where my alignment problem came from, Re-wire everything to make the machine look neater, enclose the bottom of the frame, add a second thin piece of wood beneath the actual router to stop swarf falling onto the electronics etc and finally either encasing the lot for sound proofing and to make it look good, or replace the spindle with somehting alot quieter(the die grinder is quite good but a quieter one for wood machining/high speed machining late at night would be great as a changable tool plate) then i should be extremely happy. All i need to do now is start a couple of things to get my name out there and start making some money back for small jobs, who knows might be worth while.

Any questions, comments etc welcome.

Daniel

P.S Movie is still coming, now its on wheels i will get a good one in the light.
P.P.S Robby, did you get my PM and the files? How'd you go?

rcpilot82
09-25-2007, 08:55 AM
Daniel, Looks awsome! I am glad you have had time to play with your router, unfortunatley I have not had any time to play with solidworks. I did get the files,(thanks again) but I just haven't had the time to try and learn the basics of solidworks. hopefully within the next week things will calm down for me and I can play. I also hope I'll have more parts. seeing your pics keeps me motivated to build this.

twistedfuse
09-26-2007, 07:41 AM
Hello Again,

Today i got to experiment a bit more witht he machine. I was going to retry my clamps(which by now i realise are a neccesity) in aluminum but decided to do a bit of a search through town for different materials. I picked up some smoky glass and some plexiglass white.

It was a good thing that i did. I decided to go with a picture i had done in wod bfore which didnt turn out the best due to the wood grain. After 40mins i had a result, hmmm, not as good as i had thought. When put to the light it was still very dark and just not right. I was about to make the clamps and i realised i should invert the relief to create the white spots as the deeper spot to allow more light through(Would have been the first thing most people would have thought of before etching their first). Another 40 mins later, this time it was looking wierd in the dark but when up to the light, well you can make your own mind up. THis one will be cut into a love heart and will be a present for my other half.

The smokey glass i would really like to try, i think i will have to use double sided tape. I was just wondering what depth i should use for the etch? I will be using 1/4 shank with 6mm ball nose diamond point bits for the etching. I will also try tomorrow to get an old spindle centre from a dremel and make up a spring tool to allow for a more consistant pressure.

Also i really need to organise to make my new tool plate, i really need to attach the proper dust shoe as it is driving me crazy having to clean up all the perspex chips etc, so i would like to contain them a bit, to stop the bits getting into the ballscrews etc.

Anyway, im sure ill be posting soon,

Daniel

twistedfuse
10-05-2007, 12:38 AM
Hey all,

Long time no post. lol. Been evry busy during the school holidays here. Been able to play around with the cnc a fair bit lately and have a few photos to post next week to show you where im up to. I got some clamps made up (not on the cnc but from a mate with a mill) and also am in the process of building a new tooling plate with a floating dust shoe. That came to be more of a priority since i had to cut heaps of mdf and it was a pain.

I did come across one major problem the other day(other than the floating mdf getting everywhere) was i had cut about 3 parts out then when cutting the next one it just stopped during the cut along one side and then resumed so it lost its position. Tried again and did the same thing. Now im not sure if its due to the circuits overheating and stalling the motors (will have to get a good rack mount case and mount more fans soon - which was always a plan) or if it had to do with the code. Cause it cut one part properly when i changed the code and removed the space at the start of some of the g-code lines. whcih is where it seemed to play up. I have the one that played up big time so i will have to test to see this arvo and do an air cut as soon as i start the machine which should narrow down my search. I couldnt see why the space should be a problem

(Code example

x90.4 z0.2
y310 <---- this is where i removed the space at start which seemed to fix the problem on one piece i cut.)

but then again i cut the lithophanes which took alot longer and did heaps in a row without a hitch. Im confused. I also used the same program to cut. Maybe the post processor is the problem. I tried to copy it and figure out a way to remove the rapid command from the scripts so i didnt have to use the replace function when changing the codes. That didnt work so im thinking something could have happened when copying the post processor file.

Any ideas on how to fix this or how to make the post processor so it wont add rapids?

Thanks in advance, will post pictures soon.
Daniel

twistedfuse
10-05-2007, 12:56 AM
P.S Robby How are things going with your plans etc. I have been trying to update my cnc plans for you to add things like the mounting plates and screws but am finidng it hard to fit it in between tests and cutting and work. Sorry i have been a bit sidetracked with the machine cutting all the different types of materials so i will get around to it soon for you

rcpilot82
10-05-2007, 06:04 AM
Daniel, glad to hear your haveing fun!things are going ok.I am in college so my time is limited too. I have the base drawn up to the size I want,and have aquired another stepper. I talked to my boss and he said if i work a few extra hours on the side for him I wont have to pay for the framework and it will be all welded up ready for electronics and screws. all I have to do is get the gantry drawings made up in acad. I can't seem to get the sides to export over to AutoCAD correctly, from what i see that's the most complicated piece to cut out. could you make me a acad copy of the sides? thanks a ton! don't forget to post pics!!!

twistedfuse
10-05-2007, 06:56 PM
Robby, i dont actually have acad but im sure solidworks should output to the desired format. Im thinking it might not export as well due to the arcs. I noticed with another software bundle(cant remember now) i tried to import but due to the arcs it was different to the types of arcs within solidworks so i had a few problems. It worked when i figured it out a bit but it was a painful experience.lol. So i will do my best to get them to you. When you say sides did you mean the gantry sides or the whole gantry? If its just the gantry it might even be worth me just passing on the dimensions and you re building it but we should figure it out.

Was looking to do some work on the cnc last night but the better half had a presentation and it went a lot longer than we liked but ahwell. Will get to check the cnc out today i hope after i finish work.

Daniel

rcpilot82
10-08-2007, 09:08 AM
Daniel, yes I am talking about the plate sides. I got them into acad but it's not co-operating with the dimensioning process. I can figure it out if you could give me a few dimensions, length height, and thickness, and dims to c/l of tubes and c/l of steppers & rods. perhaps a sketch would be better untill I can figure out solidworks. sorry to be a pain. BTW I am planning on making my cutting area +- 42"x 28"Y and 6"Z. how far does the gantry have to extend beyond the frame(z axis) to clear everything? thanks for all the help and sorry again for being a pain!
Robby

rcpilot82
10-08-2007, 10:19 AM
One more thing, I know it's not the "right" way to do it but with me only needing an average accuracy and repeatability of .02+- do you think I could get away with using all-thread for my lead screws?

twistedfuse
10-08-2007, 11:06 PM
Hey Robby,

Currently at work so i cant get you the dimensions atm but will do so when im home. Trust me your not being a pain. Im currently still trying to get a plan set together so others can use the plans too. Just hard now that im cutting since i get distracted very easily. lol. As for your work space the only one i can see that you'd need to upscale would be the main axis since i can get 600mm on the gantry axis and over 150mm on my z axis. Like i said off the top of my head i couldnt tell you how far you'd have to extend it but i would just use acad and measure full legth and add the extra you need.

As for the accuracy was that in inches? If so im sure allthread and some hdpe or acetal for the leadnut would work but i would be inclined to say that you'd be better off trying homeshopcnc and getting the better accuracy cause you'll probably end up wanting it later(you can upgrade) but it might be worth while since once you get going you wont want to stop and pull it apart to relpace it. lol. Even tho its easy.

Good news for me today, i hooked up my new CNC PC. YAY. Its a simple 2.8GHz processor, XP Pro, 512Mb RAM, 80Gb HDD. Going to add a second P/Port to it so i can add a pendant control later on. Dont know how im going to do it but i will try. Also today i got my new tool plate mounted so all i need to do i change the dust shoe and drill a couple more holes and the floating dust shoe will be complete. That should curve my Dust problem. Just need to incase the computer on the mounting frame and the electronics to make doubly sure and all will be done for now.

Cheers,
Daniel

P.S Pictures will come as soon as i clean up the machine again.
p.p.s still looking for 8 core shielded wire to re-wire the machine, if any aussie know where to get some by the metre that would be great.

rcpilot82
10-17-2007, 11:15 AM
Hey Daniel, any new pics,video? I haven't had any time to work on mine more yet but I didn't give up!

twistedfuse
10-17-2007, 08:08 PM
Hey robby, still in the process of getting everything together. But there are some more photos real soon. I was in contact with my mate yesturday who cut out the last part for my machine. The name plate. It looks great so ill definately have to get the photos of my machine with it on. I have been doing a few jobs for friends and family and generally just experimenting. Reason for not getting a chance to get photos and stuff up are not only have i been busy but i have been trying for a new job which i got ther other day which will be great. The weekedns will be free again and ill be able to do a bit more on the cnc.

Anyway i will definately take some photos of the machine this arvo or tomorrow morning since things should be quiet now.

Daniel

twistedfuse
10-24-2007, 09:50 AM
Hey Guys,

Yeah still busy, everytime i think im going to get a break i dont. Between small jobs here and there and organising a trip north before i start my new job its been sorta hectic and not as much time as i'd like to play with the cnc.

Currently im at the local school trying to repair an old emco cnc lathe they bought and has never really worked. I think the controller board is stuffed so if so i might offer some money and see if they will sell it to me for parts or to be able to re-build with new electronics(since i cant do it now cause it would be unsafe apparently).

Anyway, i have been doing some great things, getting used to milling perspex since ive been doping some signs and making a new tool height sensor. Nice crisp and clean cuts without melting. IM very pleased.

Anyway, i will explain more when i have some more time on my hands, hope to be posting regularly again.

Daniel

P.S Ill at least post the pics of the complete tool sensor when done.
P.P.S NEed to fix up all the little things like wiring and that soon as well as try to get some better engraving bits for more detail as well as a 4th axis.

rcpilot82
10-24-2007, 12:52 PM
looks great!! keep up the good work! good luck in your new job!

twistedfuse
10-25-2007, 12:19 AM
robby,

thanks for that. Hows your design going? Do you need a hand or neewd anything that i can possibly help with like measurements and such. If so just email me a list of whatever you want help with and ill pass on what i know. Cant wait to see your machine build log soon.

Daniel

rcpilot82
11-19-2007, 02:17 PM
Hey Daniel, how about an update? My progress has come to a complete halt at the moment due to cash flow and house maintenence. I have determined that I need to make my router to have a cutting area of 30"y 40"x and 4-5"z that is final. I have had no time to really put any more time into this with my work and my evening classes. I do now have all the software needed to run the machine and 2 steppers. I am curious how yours has been holding up. any progress on the acad files? I still can't figure out solidworks, i dont have anyone to teach me any program other than mastercam in my area.

twistedfuse
11-20-2007, 04:26 AM
hello robby,

Yeah things have been great. I went to QLD for a week for my BDay and then i started my new job. So things have been busy. I have tho, been using the machine and am really liking how its holding up. I will have to post some pictures of the engravings i have done. I really need to order a better bit to do them to get more detail. But for now its going ok. As for the acad stuff i havent had much chance at all however good news is i have to find a copy to use as my new job uses it and i would really like to get to know it again and maybe be more useful at my new job. I will keep you posted.

Daniel

rcpilot82
02-19-2008, 08:40 AM
Hey Daniel, how's it going! I haven't had anything to post in a while but I figured I'd see how your router has been holding up. I hope well, cause my frame is being welded up this week!! The cnc classes I have been taking at college have really helped my understanding of the whole deal and I think I have finally picked out all the components I will use except for the screws. I can't seem to find a way to make screws for all 3 axis for a price I can afford just yet. but anyway, how about an update!

twistedfuse
02-25-2008, 05:01 PM
Robby,

How are things going now. Sorry its been a while since i have replied ive been very busy with my new job and have been away for a month in newcastle. My machine is holding up well(dissapointed i havent been able to use it for ages tho). But as usual i have a 10 ideas running through my head. Currently tho i am building a full size enclosure for the machine. Also i have designed a tool height sensor and just need some time to build it and ill be happy for now. Also i have a mini cyclone being built to prevent the vacuum gtting clogged with MDF dust. Finally i am going to add some cable carriers to the machine as soon as it is put into its new enclosure which i hope to have completed in a week or two(not including paint).

Hows the machine coming along?

Daniel
P.S I will be pretty much settled now and so i have time to get back into cnc and replying to all those messages and posting lots now.

rcpilot82
02-25-2008, 06:28 PM
Glad to hear all is going well on your end. I will have my frame home this week. I posted a new thread about it because I am going to try and use a belt drive system for the x axis. if you can view autocad files, check it out and let me know what ya think. it's too late to make any major changes now but it should be ok. Thanks for all the help in getting me this far!! I still have a long way to go!

twistedfuse
02-28-2008, 09:54 PM
Hello All,

Been way too long in getting settled and getting everything organised for CNC. Good news is that im back and looking forward to building all the ideas i have stored and all the bits and pieces i want. I still haven't been able to move my cnc machine just yet but i expect that by next friday i should have completed the enclosure for my machine(minus painting and sound proof foam). I have the basci frame up and ontop of my new metal frame. Im really looking forward to finishing it just to give it that commercial look. lol. I have also just finished the actual cone and parts for a mini cyclone which i will use to prevent the shop vac filling wiht mdf dust and such. Photos will be posted later tonight of that. Also i have bought all the components for a tool height sensor and just need some time to put it togeter on the breadboad and then implement it into my hobby cnc board. Finally i have some good news, i was able to get onto the cnc yesterday and do some inlay with mother of pearl. The piece i did wasn't fancy just a 5 pointed star into some scrap wood. It wasnt perfect as had to file the MOP down a bit to get it in but im sure with little fiddling it will have no problems.

Anyway, i look forward to posting a lot more and keeping you on track with the Enclosure and other projects.

Daniel

crocky
02-29-2008, 02:54 AM
Good stuff, can't wait for the photo's :)

Cheers,
Bob

twistedfuse
03-02-2008, 12:47 AM
Hello All,

Well its only a couple days late but i have been busy yet again(but at least this time i have been busy with some cnc work). On monday i will get some photos of my enclosure as it is slowly getting built. I was able to cut the mdf base and top and make the framework. I am now just adding some angles to the corner to give the frame stiffness. I will then measure and cut the sides and front and get it all up and going. Then ill cut out the spaces for the windows and workpiece doors on the sides that need them.

Anyway for now, i have included some photos of my mini cyclone(still awaiting some testing as it needs a good base as mounted to something to collect the dust. Looking forward to testing it. Also included is a photo of some inlay work i did. It did take a little bit of fine tuning with a small file but it works.

Daniel

rcpilot82
03-02-2008, 09:29 AM
cool looking cyclone, I am all ramped up with my router as well, I am trying to sell a bunch of stuff to get some more parts!! this is getting as addictive as my rc airplanes...this could get bad....real bad!!! :)

twistedfuse
03-02-2008, 08:15 PM
Hello Again,

Well i got a bit done today with the enclosure frame and feel it shouldn't be long before ill be adding the windows and painting it. I got the enclosure frame done today and placed the cnc ontop of the machine frame. Tomorrow ill be bolting the cnc to the framework and drilling and screwing the walls and extras in place. Then on wednesday i will get the perspex and add the front doors(i hope). Then over the next couple days ill spend the time painting it and running new wires and the vacuum ports and whatever else i need to add. So im hoping to be able to get the cnc over to my new house by the weekend. Then ill order the soundproof foam and finally finish the machine off. Then ill have all the time to work on the cnc and with the cnc without having to travel to my parents place.

Daniel

twistedfuse
03-03-2008, 02:06 AM
Just add ing this rendering of what the general idea of my finished enclosure will look like. This came from another thread i started but thought it'd be worth while posting here just to show my concept.

Daniel

Gir
03-03-2008, 03:31 PM
Daniel,

I build speakers as a bit of hobby, so I feel that I may be able to help with your soundproofing idea.

Every place that air can flow, sound will surely follow. If you want to be thorough, you'll want to caulk all joints and use some type of weather stripping along the rims of the doors. For the vents, I was thinking you could actually tune them, similar to what a lot of subwoofers have. In your model I noticed if you take the outlet of those vents and then extend them to the sides of the box (or even over the sides and down half way), you'll be tuning it to a lower frequency and fewer high frequency noises can get out. On top of that, if you line the inside of that "port" with some of the acoustic tile (if it's not too thick), then you'll further reduce noise.

Just my $0.02


Tyler

twistedfuse
03-03-2008, 08:57 PM
Hello Again,

well, i am getting somewhere. Today was again very ruitful even tho it doesn't look like it. I went into town and bought a 3mm thick rubber mate that lines the floor and just reduced vibrations from the framework. The other main reason i bought it was not only for noise issue but also to stop the MDF from getting liquids on it and soaking it up. Ill end up using some 3M Spray to tack it down as well. I also got around to bolting the CNC into place so its there to stay now. I also precut rough sizes for the walls(except the front doors). That way tomorrow it shouldn't take too long to cut them out. Then all i have to do is figure out what ill be doing for the windows(perspex) and wood loading doors on each side. I guess i should also start thinking of a paint scheme. Any ideas?

Daniel

twistedfuse
03-04-2008, 12:34 AM
Tyler,

Thanks very much for your $0.02. It was extremely helpful in the fact that i was running off information i had gathered off the net over years and just remembering back to them and also to clear up and make sure what sites i have read that it was correct. I am going to line the entire inside with sound foam tiles and will probably just get some thin foam for the dust extraction vents. The doors however i was unsure of excatly what to use to seal it and had seen weatherproof foam strip at bunnings but wasn't sure if it would work or not. So thanks heaps for that. As for the windows do you have a suggestion as to how to inlay the perspex and hold it in while keeping as much noise in as possible?

Cheers and thanks again,
Daniel

crocky
03-04-2008, 03:18 AM
Hi Daniel,

Looks the part now :) and the cyclone looks good too :)

Cheers,
Bob

twistedfuse
03-04-2008, 08:36 PM
Hey Guys,

I got more done today, didn't reach my aim but am very pleased none the less. The side walls are screwed in place. They will need to be removed and cut furthur for the workpiece doors on each side which will allow me to slide long pieces through the enclosure. I also need to bolt the actual frame of the enclosure to the machine frame but not going to do that just yet. all thats left(for friday because im meeting a bloke local who built a cnc machine too to see his machine and help him out a little) is to cut the back piece and cut window slots and get the perspex. Then the front doors and paint.

Getting close, still a bit to go but its nearly there.

Daniel
P.S I will need a fair bit of gap sealer so what do people recommend as better stuff to fill the gaps?

joecnc2006
03-04-2008, 09:15 PM
I iimagine you are going to add some cross bracing to the base.

Joe

harryn
03-05-2008, 07:40 AM
Hi - am also planning an enclosure for my router setup. Do you have some suggestions on sound absorbtion tile or other materials ?

twistedfuse
03-05-2008, 10:26 PM
Hello Harrym,

Im not an expert on sound iles at all but all i did was search ebay and found a supplier of Soundfoam tiles. They are 1.4m x 1m. It was quite reasonable and worth my while since my largest walls are 1.4 x 1 m. All i know is to make sure they are flame retardant to prevent heat starting a fire, naked flames still will but just heat alone wont do it. I think the tiles are $38ea. Postage was good price too.

Daniel

twistedfuse
03-05-2008, 10:28 PM
Joe,

Sorry i almost missed your post. I hadn't thought about the cross bracing in the base(if you mean metal base and not enclosure base). But since you posted i have been doubleguessing myself so i will go ahead and buy some cross bracing soon. Thanks for that.

Daniel

mhasting2004
03-06-2008, 05:56 AM
Hi Daniel

As others have said making it as air tight as possible with any venting being long and indirect is the go. I've seen portable sound booths and site sheds inside very noisy environments that absolutely kill outside sound using evacuated panels. Thats probably overkill but the point is if you can make it airtight it will be better. Another technique I've seen is to "float" a secondary wall / ceiling like a false ceiling (off wires or "Z" bent sheetmetal brackets) but using 2 layers of gyproc (plaster board) to give the wall density and mass. The acoustic foam is then mounted ontop of this isolated wall.
The idea is to keep the interior box of the sound proof cage as mechanically seperate from the outside box as possible. Air gaps and hard connections between them will conduct the sound out. Thing of the interior as the drum inside you washing machine suspended on springs to decouple it from the outside skin.

"Space Fill'A" foam is pretty handy at getting any gaps filled.

Want to make it bullet proof... make the enclosure out of Hebal aireated concrete (Sold at Bunnings and construction material places) with the acoustic foam on the inside and double pane glass on the doors. The Hebal is surprisingly light and can be cut with a circular saw.


Anyway a few ideas.

Cheers

Mark

twistedfuse
03-06-2008, 06:43 AM
Mark,

Thanks for the ideas. Very helpful indeed. I definately wont be doing some of that as it is overkill but i will be keeping it as airtight as possible. My main aim is just to keep the majority of noise inside to keep the neighbours happy. lol. I will end up figuring out a way to put false walls up and will think about the front door situation since i dont think 1 layer of MDF and some Plexiglass will do much. Ill think about that one but for now ill just be happy to have some walls up. I will probably end up changing the enclosure sometime soon anyway. lol.

Thanks again, you definately are very knowledgable in this field and i look forward to posting some more questions if your up for it.

Daniel
P.S Day off tomorrow so ill be getting the back on and hopefully some windows in the back wall. Followed by a trip to Bunnings for some sealant and Space Fill'A. lol

mhasting2004
03-07-2008, 04:23 AM
Hey Daniel

Don't confuse opinionated with knowledgeable... :) .
I won't be making my neighbours very happy once I get my beast fired up as I am building in in a double garage just like you. If I get serious doing jobs I'll have to move it somewhere.... better build it first and worry about pissing of the neighbours second.

Cheers

Mark

twistedfuse
03-09-2008, 04:23 AM
Well, even tho i dont have any photos just yet, i have been able o move the cnc over the weekend to the new house even tho its not completed. I was told something very smart(and glad i was) that i should move it before i make it heavier. It was a struggle but its here. I do need to do alot still and now i have to re-run and figure out a way to have the cables connec from inside to the outside so my controller board can control them.

Tomorrow i will be buying the perspex windws for the machine doors and back and will jigsaw out the parts. I am really looking forward to finishing it and putting the sound foam in it. It does make a bit of a difference atm but thats without filling all the gaps and with the soundfoam. either way it looks good. Like Joe said i will need to brace the machine frame a little better so ill have to get some metal cut and figure it out.

Daniel

epineh
03-09-2008, 05:15 AM
I was told something very smart(and glad i was) that i should move it before i make it heavier.

That is good advice, I had to move house after my router was built, luckily it was only next door but it took 4 of us struggling to get it into the carport, it still has about a 40m "walk" to do once the shed is built, once there I think I will sell it with the house if we move again :)

Russell.

Gir
03-12-2008, 12:48 PM
Daniel,

Sorry for the late reply. What you're doing is pretty much all correct. Any type of caulk will work as a sealant, they're all pretty much the same. Also, one layer thick of 3/4" MDF will work extremely well for what you're doing - it's what most people use for their speakers. It's very heavy and rigid and doesn't let much sound through. However, given your dimensions, you'll want to brace it wherever possible. If it can vibrate, that means it can transmit sound. I think you'll be surprised how well it works, provided it's air tight.

As for the vent, I would still suggest you make it extend to the sides of the table. The shorter it is, the more high frequency noise will get out. Also look into layering your foam with felt. The tiles you're using will be very good in absorbing midrange frequencies (anywhere from 1kHz to 10kHz), but probably won't be as effective in the high frequencies where a lot of the noise comes from (although they will probably still work pretty well). Felt, on the other hand, is extremely good at absorbing high frequencies and is commonly layered around tweeters to help control baffle step. It shouldn't be very expensive for a big roll, so I would look into layering it on top of the foam tiles.

You're looking pretty good, can't wait to see how it turns out!

[EDIT]
Looks like you're using 1/2" MDF. Shouldn't be much of a problem, but that just increases the need for extra support. Running cross braces along it will help a lot.


-Tyler

twistedfuse
03-12-2008, 04:15 PM
Tyler,

Cheers for the words. Yery informative. I have been very slack lately and havent done much on the machine frame since i got it up and working in the new garage. I havent even been good enough to buy the perspex for the windows or the MDF for the front doors. Ah well. Im currently trying to figure out a way to run my new wires and the plug for the die grinder. I think ill just cut a hole and then make two plates that just clamp around the elec cables and cover up the larger hole.

Thanks for the tip about felt. I remember installing some tweeters a long time ago but didnt really know why the felt was layered around it but now i know. Would a layer on the walls then the foam then a layer over the top of the foam work better? Also if i layer it over the foam would it be better to stick it to the foam to give it the convolute shape too or just to stretch it so its 'flat' so to speak. I just really like the look of the machine now and can't wait to finish it. I will however need to add a small light inside as it is alot darker than working on the open machine. lol. Ill look at cutting the windows out and get the doors cut in the next couple of days.

My biggest issue is the loading flaps or doors on the sides of the machine. I really dont want to cut these just yet as i have to decide how to seal them and use them and keep them air tight. Maybe i could route a step around a piece that fits as a lip over the hole in the sides and then add some sealant tape around the step and then add a couple of small twist lock pieces to hold it tight when they are in place? Any other suggestins. I dont know if thats clear so ill think about drawing it up and posting the idea.

Daniel

Gir
03-12-2008, 04:40 PM
Layering the felt underneath the tiles should be okay, but my only worry is the reflected sound off of the tiles themselves (which there will be some). It may or may not be more effective to put the felt over the tiles, but it's guaranteed not to hurt anything by doing that. As for how to put the felt on, you don't need to match the shape of the tiles. Just stretching it over is fine. That is unless you want it to look cool ^_^

twistedfuse
03-12-2008, 04:46 PM
Oh Look Cool, Look Cool. Its all about image. lol.

I guess it is worth while to add two layers above and below the tiles that way i am doubly sure it will reduce noise. Also the felt idea is great. It will save me lots of time and a quick reduction before getting tiles hopefully. I will probably drop in and pick up the felt this arvo and get myself a can of good old 3M spray adhesive. I will have to cut everything first before i put it up but hey, it'll push me to do it.

Daniel
P.S Anyone out there got experience with harmonic gears. Looking to build a 4th axis and was thinking of just direct drive with 1/4 stepping as i dont need the best resollution but then i read about these gears and thought i might then be able to make some small rings if i do.

twistedfuse
03-13-2008, 09:06 PM
Also anyone out there got experience with writing post processors. I am looking to add a manual tool change script to it to allow me to save all my toolpaths together since it takes alot of gcodes to produce with certain projects. Also does anyone own a pic programmer capable to program a pic16F628 Chip. Looking to start pendat build

Daniel

twistedfuse
03-16-2008, 01:36 AM
Well after a trip to wollongong this weekend i was able to pick up a relay. It is 250VAC @ 40Amps and im eally looking forward to having this controll both my vacuum and spindle. Instead of wiring the spindle directly(so i dont void warranty) i will wire it to a 2 point wall socket and have both wired together to save on M codes. Or i might even think about buying a second to control the vacuum seperately but that will be a while off. Now i just have to clarify how to connect it to the hobbycnc board. Im sure i just wire the Control pin and ground across the coil and then the active of the AC cable across the connectors. Should be simple but ill doubel check i dont need to add anything else. Anyone out there able to clarify this?

Daniel

twistedfuse
03-17-2008, 02:30 AM
Good and Bad News.

Well all sorts of things happened over the weekend. Had my spindle lock on the die grinder(piece that you hold up to hold spindle still as you twist the collet off) break on me. Thanks to metabo who will be doing the warranty on this. Then i decided to try an fix the alignment issue in the Main axis along the base. Gets to boths ends and grunts but doesnt move. Sounds like binding and not enough torque so i took off the ballscrew mounts and think i found the issue so thats being resolved over the next couple days if i can get the parts made.

Good news is that im slowly making progress on the new electronics enclosure and the new machine enclosure and the new cyclone dust extractor. Hooked the extractor up over the weekend after the machine broke and tested it by tappig out all the dust in the filter of the dust vac and all the gunk in the dust vac and tried it with the cyclone temporarily attached to a large bucket. When i was done, there was no sign of dust or dirt in th shop vac bucket but all of it had stayed in the cyclone bucket. Very happy in deed. Tomorrow the doors will start to take shape and hopefully get the windows made(been lazy) as well as get some 3 - 6mm perspex for some energy chain. Should be good.

Daniel

crocky
03-17-2008, 11:14 PM
Hi Daniel,

Good news on the cyclone, well done :)

Sounds like there is few issues being sorted too so that is good!

Bob

twistedfuse
03-21-2008, 05:56 AM
Hello All,

Well things are again a mixed bag. Got my doors routed and perspex in but cant add the backing panel since my router won't work properly and i cant cut them without it. I got my die grinder back no worries but for some reason trying to iron out the main axis problem has been....well lets just say a pain in the rear. Doesn't matter what i do now it still does the same thing. Maybe i need a new mount for the ballscrew since i have new mounts for everything else.

Has anyone had a problem with the motor making a loud grunt like noise but the axis doesnt move. It starts moving and then just stops and grunts and wont move. Seems to happen randomly but then at the ends its a little more regular. It will traverse one way right to the end of the axis with no effort then going the other way it grunts and wont move. I thought it may have been alignment as it was only near each end of the axis but now it will happen in the middle too. I didnt have a shifting spanner on me but another thing i thought about was that i wasn't getting enough or i was getting too much pre-load on the ballscrew. Maybe tightening this or loosening it may fix it. Its driving me up the wall and really want it fixed soon. Im at my end and really want full traverse on the axis.

any suggestions welcome.

Daniel

epineh
03-21-2008, 06:26 AM
It does sound like a binding issue, if you can de-couple the stepper easily enough, do that and try to turn the ballscrew over the whole travel by hand, you will soon tell if it is mechanical.

Just my 2c :)

Russell.

twistedfuse
03-21-2008, 07:26 AM
Russell,

Cheers for that. I just find it strange that it works in one direction and not the other. As soon as i loosen the ballscrew nut mount i find it works better but still issues. I must just have to play with it alot more. I know the mounts are in the right place maybe the ballscrew nut placement is too high or somehting since its te only thing left.


Daniel
P.S Any other suggestions to try? I might try for a quick video and upload it and see what you think.

twistedfuse
03-24-2008, 03:56 PM
Hello Everyone,

Well i think i may have fixed my issue. All my rails were aligned and the ballscrew mounts were aligned but the ballscrew nut mount i think was pushing downwards on the screw causing it to whip a bit(i think). I was able to traverse the whole length yesterday before dinner. I havent yet put the bolts back in the ballscrew nut which connect it to the mount but instead i have a clamp holding it in place so im crossing my fingers until i do that. Good news is that ill be able to get back into some work and i have decided to work on the cable chain this week if i can get some perspex, and im off to get the hinges for the doors today too. Wont be long and ill be painting it up.

Daniel
P.S Still looking for anyone able to do pic programming. I am going to buy a programmer but it wont be for a while since i have a million and one others things i want to do first.
lol

epineh
03-25-2008, 06:07 AM
Do you want the code written or just some code you have done put on a chip ?

I could probably help with the writing to a chip (I have a friends Picstart Plus on loan), but as far as writing code you will have to wait about 2 years until I learn, which I intend to do in my spare time :D

Good to hear you may have sorted the movement problems.

Russell.

twistedfuse
03-26-2008, 08:18 PM
Russell,

I want to just put some code on a chip. Its from another post for a PIC pendant. Thought it might be good fun and helpful to have a pendant on the machine.

Daniel

twistedfuse
03-26-2008, 08:21 PM
Well some success finally.

I was able to get the CNC witht he ballscrew mount bolted in place to travrse the entire length of the machine axis. Really good. I also did some reverse engraving in mirror which ill try to take a photo of but dont know how it'll go. Right at the end of the run the problem came back with it grunting, but i have narrowed it down to the ballscrew nut mount being the issue so ill just have to fiddle more.

I also bought some hinges and rubber seals from hardware shop and will inlay the windows and put the doors on very shortly. Also just bought some new CNC rails so will be making another machine or two(Smaller this time).

Daniel

epineh
03-27-2008, 04:59 AM
I have a couple of PIC16F84A's lying around, if that chip is suitable let me know and a link or something for the hex file. If you only want one or two you can have them F.O.C. otherwise just snail mail me the chips and I can program them for ya.

Actually if you have a good schematic for a programmer that would be great as well, I can make boards easily, it is just all the PIC programmers I have found seem very complicated for something so simple. I need to be able to program DSPIC's and my friends programmer is an old one, it does most of the PICS but for the latest ones it needs an upgrade, which he is in the process of doing.

Cheers.

Russell.

Reflow
03-27-2008, 09:33 AM
Hey Daniel,

Nice machine, been following this thread for a while.

I'm interested in this pendant project of yours too. I have a Joes and seem to spend far too long stretching to reach the keyboard. Which project/thread did you have in mind?

I'm in Sydney and have a electronics/computer background can probably help hack a few of them up if you guys are interested. Should be able to program those pic's too, just have to remember how to resurrect the pic programmer :)

Cheers,
Scott

twistedfuse
03-27-2008, 04:05 PM
Hey Guys,

Firstly, the thread i was following and thought i would copy was here:

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53409 (also links to his site which has it)

The pendant looks simple and is programmable in mach and even in the PIC if anything furthur needs to be added. I don't think it would be too hard to knock out the pcb. Good time to practice with PCB-GCODE plugin for eagle. I have been looking for a schematic for a pic programmer but there doesn't seem to be one out there that programs majority of them otherwise i would have made it and the pendant. This way at least it will be a sort of group project. lol.

So if either of you guys can help out that would be great. I dont mind helping in anyway possible. Just let me know what you can do.

Daniel

epineh
03-28-2008, 06:55 AM
The layout seems to be a PDF for toner transfer, unless I missed it. If we could get the Eagle file I can simply print out a few on my PCB printer, I can't seem to get any success with PDF's yet - one day maybe.

I guess we could toner transfer it as well, they say it is simple to do, dunno never tried it.

Russell.

Gir
03-28-2008, 12:31 PM
I guess we could toner transfer it as well, they say it is simple to do, dunno never tried it.Don't do it if there are some small traces. I hear that anything under 15 mills has a tendency to get ruined quite easily.

twistedfuse
03-28-2008, 06:58 PM
Russell,

Gee a PCB printer, ill have to view that post as i would love to find out about that. Don't you need special ink? I have done a few toner transfer methods, wasn't too bad but the circuit was simple. Im sure the pendant one by the looks of it isn't too hard. I was just going to import it into something like photoshop and trace the outline and use my cnc to machine it. Maybe even try using a felt marker in the machine and just trace the lines and produce it similar to toner transfer. Dont know if that would work. I know the chips are about $10ea from RS components so at least thats fairly cheap(i think i even saw it in the DSE catalogue). Maybe if we get onto putting the code on chips we can figure out a good way to produce the boards.

Daniel

epineh
03-28-2008, 09:00 PM
Actually I just had another look at the files, there is only the component placement layout, no schematic or track layout. Without either one of these we cannot make the board, unless we start from scratch. It does look like a simple kind of board.

Yeah the printer is a handy tool, if you look at the first couple of pages of the build thread, then skip to the movie right at the end you will get the idea of what is going on. Reading through the whole thing is a mission in itself, I never thought it would generate so much interest. The inks are standard factory stuff, I kept it as original as I could (apart from removing all covers, cutting it in half completely, then screwing it all back together :D).

I can program those chips with the programmer of my friends, I just need to get a couple of chips, I may go into town on Monday and buy a couple (I live about 60k away from the nearest Jaycar shop).

Cheers.

Russell.

epineh
03-28-2008, 09:55 PM
Had a bit of a look around, and found this for a programmer :

http://www.instructables.com/id/JDM2-based-PIC-Programmer/

It has the eagle files for a JDM based programmer, a simple one that programs 16f84 and another for programming 8/14/18/28/40 pin PICs.

It states the simple one works on the 16F628 PIC's as well.

I might print out the simple one and give it a go. I do have the Picstart Plus of my friends at the moment but it would be nice to have my own. I am sure I have seen someone converting one of these to suit a 30F series DSPIC, which is something I need as well.

Russell.

twistedfuse
04-04-2008, 12:50 AM
Well its good that the zone is back up. I haven't had much time to search for the pendant stuff or look at that pic programmer but i have been able to pick up a 3" 3 jaw self centering chuck to start work on a 4th axis with a mate. Have to have a good look at a design now. Will need to get back into the swing of things again and finish these projects. I have about 4 projects going on but at least when these are done the machien should eb complete.

Daniel

epineh
04-05-2008, 03:44 AM
Yeah I have been a little distracted lately as well, mainly work but I will start looking at programmers soon. The programmer is the last thing to do now for me and I can program up my servo drive prototype, if it works then my router will be going again as well.

I need to read up on it but I think the programmer for the 30f series PIC is different from the 16f series PIC's. I would like to be able to do both. I could probably do a board up for you if you want to build your own programmer to program your pendant. How are your soldering skills ?

Russell.

twistedfuse
04-05-2008, 07:17 PM
Russell,

yeah there are many distractions. I havent been able to get onto here topost but i had my router break yesterday again. Damn collet holder is a 1/4" and my bits are 6mm and i keep tightening it and i think that is the cause. Can anyone make custom collets cause i need some made. lol.

As for the pic programmer that would be awesome to have one that can do all sorts of pics. As for my soldering skills they are reasonably good. I work in a avionics industry and they need to be fairly good and the guys that i work with say its pretty good (compared to theirs it looks a bit ordinary tho)considering i havent had formal training and its all self taught.

Daniel

epineh
04-07-2008, 03:17 AM
No worries then I will have a look at the board layout again for the JDM based programmer, it is pretty simple from what I remember and is supposed to work well.

I think it is a case of it being setup as a 16f/18f series programmer OR a 30f series programmer. I will do some research but for the PIC you want to work with it should be OK just as it is. I think the most expensive part will be a ZIF socket for the chip to sit on while getting programmed. I guess you could use a normal IC socket but a ZIF would be a lot better. I have ordered one for my programmer, it was about $10.00 bucks so it isn't the end of the world.

If you PM me your address I can slip the board in the mail for you this week. Do you need me to drill it ?

Cheers.

Russell.

epineh
04-07-2008, 07:20 AM
Voila !!! The picture isnt great but you get the idea.

twistedfuse
04-07-2008, 06:14 PM
Russell,

Lovely looking board. Wish i could do them that nice. Have PM'd you.
Thanks heaps.

Daniel

epineh
04-07-2008, 10:16 PM
Got the PM, will try drill and send the board today in my lunch break.

I meant to put your name (twistedfuse) written with copper in the large copper pour area, kinda like a custom job, but forgot all about it (chair).

Russell.

crocky
04-07-2008, 10:25 PM
Hi Russell,

Would have been a nice touch :)

Bob

epineh
04-08-2008, 03:05 AM
Hey Bob, I know, I am kicking myself for forgetting...ah well.

Board is sent Daniel, the schematic and board layout are all on the above link.

Just give the board a wipe with a little acetone to remove the ink from the tracks, I usually leave it on until I am ready to solder, this keeps the copper nice and clean. I don't have tinning capability (yet) but usually the boards are fine without it, if you want you can spray some PCB lacquer to seal it once soldered up.

Are you able to make it to the BBQ in May Daniel ?

Cheers.

Russell.

twistedfuse
04-10-2008, 04:50 PM
Russell,

Looking forward to seeing the boards and getting it up and running. I really appreciate it russell.

As for the BBQ it would be lovely to g and meet everyone but alas i very much doubt i'd be able to get the time off at such a busy time with work that i could travel to melbourne. I am though making sure i do go to one as i'd really like to meet eveyone face to face.

Also i was browsing the files i had on the PIC pendant and found that i did have 2 rar files. One from the site i think and one from the cnc thread. One has the PCB attached and the other didn't so i don't know if anyone needed it. It is the 2nd page of the PDF. I hope that the guy who designed this is not offended it i post it here but if he is ill remove it.

Anyway, i get my routr back today and looking foward to it. Get some time this weekedn and ill look at machining theboard/enclosure for the pic pendant as well as some cable chain so i can experiment with the tolerences to get a tight fit.

Daniel

CETICARS
04-11-2008, 08:12 AM
Hello All,

Firstly let me say i hope i have posted this is the right place, not too sure. And secondly what a wonderful site this is. For years now i have been thinking about building one and this year i finally bit the bullet and bought the Hobby CNC 4axis 300oz kit. All my circuitry is now built, all i can say is "wow" and i havent even built the machine yet. The main reason for electronics first was that i wanted to commit to building this machine and it is definately a good way to do it. My machine will have rails of 932mm (full rail that supplier had) for the main x axis, 700mm for the Yaxis and 280 for the z axis. And i am hoping to build a cutting area of approx 700x500x150 so i can get into model building, PCB manufacture for all my electronic projects, sign making and anything else new that i can do of course.

ANyway onto my build and problems so far. I have had best luck this week, secured old stock from a supplier of proper linear bearings for dirt cheap. They are 35mm linear rails, bulky and huge but hey, its within my price range, ill just build around them. So luck is on my side and even tho i dont have them yet i have started the frame work for the base. I will post pictures when i feel its at a good stage. The frame will be 40mmx40mmx1.6mm thick. I think most of the machine(gantry as well) will be built somehow with this and 6mm plate aluminum for extra strength.

Next on my bill will be to drill and tap all the holes when i have both the rails and frame together. After that will follow the gantry build and egt 2 axis working then make the final z axis.

My first problem is i have to get some leadscrews/ballscrews. I have a local bloke who has been heaps of help so far and is really nice. He ahs offered me a 5TPI screw for at least my main axis. Now my question is: Because im making circuit boards will this thread pitch be too coarse for the intricate work i need?

I am hoping to have built my complete machine over the course of the holidays i have (next 2 weeks), mostly at night and in the mornings as i work everyday. Well i know it will not be completely finished but at least i would like it to be cutting in 2 weeks. I will probably cheaply go for all thread until i find a good deal on proper screws, then slowly replace anything to get higher accuracy.

Anyway, thats about it for now. Is there anything i should be aware of for my build? Any comments etc.

Thanks in advance,

Daniel

P.S Attached are some quick renderings of my machine. The main one is now outdated as the gantry will be slightly different. New gantry proof of concept is attached tho.

P.P.S If there are any aussies out there willing to sell some leadscrews/ballscrews please email me or post here as i would really like to keep costs down.

QUESTION newbie about a foam cutter
what would it cost to make these side plates an the gantry beam across out of aluminum plate for a 18" gantry height above the table , 60" wide table with a 3.5 router for spindle ,i have it already ,i need the side plates set up to be driven on both sides of the table ,the unit need to be bolted together anyone that can build this give me a price of material an labor ( total break down of work )

epineh
04-13-2008, 11:17 PM
Hey Daniel, I just printed out a modified version of the same programmer I sent you, I changed a track to program the 30f series that I am using. I started to populate it then realised that the ZIF socket is a wide DIL package not the 28-3 that the PIC is.

I will look up the PIC you are using and check that the ZIF will work on your board, I think your PIC is an 18 pin which may be OK, just in case check the ZIF fits before you start soldering. If it is no good I can print out another board to suit, this time with your name printed in the copper :)

Russell.

twistedfuse
04-13-2008, 11:43 PM
Russell,

Just got the package this morning before i started work. Lovely looking board, definately much better looking in person. Absolutely looking forward to building the board. Now i can see the pendant being finished very shortly. Ill upload some pictures of the board as i start to populate it.

Daniel

epineh
04-14-2008, 10:28 PM
Good to hear the board turned up, the schematic and board layout are a little tricky to read the component names (well the board layout anyway). Give me a yell if I can help.

Russell.

epineh
04-18-2008, 06:13 PM
Well just so you know the programmer does NOT work with 30F series chips (chair)

Ah well it was worth a try.

I may check with a 16F628A later on just to make sure the board is working properly.

Russell.

twistedfuse
04-21-2008, 02:38 AM
Russell,

I have ordered my chip and just waiting for it and some extra parts for the programmer to turn up. I decided for the amount of times i actually use the programmer that i would use standard IC sockets(and the other factor is i had alot laying around). I will take a photo or two in the next couple of days. Im busy atm with my work and waiting to get my next set of rails for the next project.

Daniel

bones
04-21-2008, 03:25 AM
Hi Guys,
I recently purchased a Pic Development board from mikroe. The EasyPic5.
http://www.mikroe.com/en/tools/
Well worth it. $129USD + about $30 shipping. Great price.
I did get a lot of the goodies with it too. About $300AUD.

I highly recommend these if your doing a microcontroller development.

A graphics LCD with touch screen for $25USD.
I'm going to have a play making a pendent.

Cheers
Rodney

Reflow
04-22-2008, 09:56 AM
Russell,

Looking forward to seeing the boards and getting it up and running. I really appreciate it russell.

As for the BBQ it would be lovely to g and meet everyone but alas i very much doubt i'd be able to get the time off at such a busy time with work that i could travel to melbourne. I am though making sure i do go to one as i'd really like to meet eveyone face to face.

Also i was browsing the files i had on the PIC pendant and found that i did have 2 rar files. One from the site i think and one from the cnc thread. One has the PCB attached and the other didn't so i don't know if anyone needed it. It is the 2nd page of the PDF. I hope that the guy who designed this is not offended it i post it here but if he is ill remove it.

Anyway, i get my routr back today and looking foward to it. Get some time this weekedn and ill look at machining theboard/enclosure for the pic pendant as well as some cable chain so i can experiment with the tolerences to get a tight fit.

Daniel

Hey,

Geez you guys move pretty quick on this stuff, work has had me by the neck the last few weeks and I haven't even had a chance to ponder the pendant.

Anyway Daniel, if your interested I'm in Sydney not far from the airport (Maroubra) and just booked a flight down to Melb as a day trip for the BBQ. Cost me $145 all up and I'm splitting car hire with another fellow Ivan who I haven't met at the other end. If your interested I can offer you a place to crash on the Fri/Sat night if you wanted to join the crowd heading down. Flight leaves at 7:15am and gets back about 9pm.
Have a Joes2006 I cut by hand in the garage as well to check out, I'm always up for another cnc'ers opinions :)

--Scott

twistedfuse
05-11-2008, 06:57 AM
Hey all,

Sorry its been quiet again. Been working very hard lately and in the little time i have had i have had to try and find a nw car. I had an unfortunate car accident about 3 weeks ago so been very quiet. Everyone involved is ok and im not at fault so not too worried just not much happening while i just relaxed. I did however get time to start collecting and organising the rails for my newest router. Will have to take some photos of the goodies. Starting to look at ballscrews so if anyone knows of a good place/auction please let me know.

Anyway, look forward to getting back into finishing some projects off like the pendant and finishing the encosure of my router and electronics as well as try and finalise the problem with the binding in the main axis.

Daniel

crocky
05-12-2008, 01:11 AM
Good to see you are back and fine on the car accident, we have been wondering where you were.

Cheers,
Bob

twistedfuse
05-12-2008, 02:47 AM
Thanks Bob,

I have been floating around reading every now and then but not much else. Looking forward to building the next machine.

Daniel
P.S BTW i have enjoyed reading about your lithophanes too. They are great. Ive been playing around with them a fair bit before the accident and i have given a few to family for presents and have a few people at work looking at getting some done.

P.P.S Anyone know where to get silicon rubber mould making supplies within australia.

mhasting2004
05-12-2008, 05:24 AM
Hi Daniel

Good to hear your alright after the accident. My local fiberglass place has this sort of stuff.

http://www.fibreglassmaterials.com.au/

Cheers

Mark

twistedfuse
05-12-2008, 06:22 AM
Mark,

Thanks for the link. I'll have to chase them up for some prices.

Daniel

Rodm1954
05-12-2008, 06:59 AM
Hi Daniel,
Sorry to hear of your misfortune - glad everyone is OK though.

epineh
05-12-2008, 07:05 AM
Hi Daniel, I thought you had been a little quiet, glad to hear you are all Ok.

Russell.

Sparkrat
05-13-2008, 10:05 AM
Hi Daniel
I have been interested in building a CNC router and similar projects for my mill etc. Over the last couple of years I have collected componets with the hope to build on the cheap.
But I must say that I have sent the majority of tonight looking over your project from start to end (current state) and appreciated your process and development of the project and personal also. Well done!!

I was encouraged enought to write this, My first post (ever)!
I'm located in Canberra and travel to Nowra often. I would dearly love to see your project on day

Thanks for invovement in this, I agree fantastic web site! And also to those who contribute. Great stuff!!

Greg

twistedfuse
05-13-2008, 10:15 PM
Greg,

You would definately be welcome in coming down and having a look. It is a fantastic hobby and the poeple here are great. Don't hold back in posting as you'll gain a wealth of knowledge. I was helped heaps and ive been and enjoy helping people build as well where i can help out. Its amazing the people that you meet and chat with(i just wish i could go to the BBQ and meet them in person). Alas i cannot get time off but i have been able to get a trip to the manufacturers expo in sydney with a work collegue which im sure will be a good days browsing for ideas for the next couple of machines.

If you ever need a hand don't hesitate to post or email.

Daniel
P.S Thanks to everyone ot there for the well wishes. Just shows the strength of the zone.

twistedfuse
07-07-2008, 08:32 AM
Hey everyone,

Well everytime i think im going o get a chance to get back into the zone,i seem to find ways to distract myself. I just thought i'd drop a line about where im up to. Been collecting lots of parts i need for my next few builds. One is a small machine for doing small inlay work with mother of pearl and inlay and jewelry wax and also just to have something quiet and small for indoors when its too cold to get outside. lol. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59715 The other will be larger than that but smaller than my other build. And on top of those im trying to get ideas for a cnc faceting machine. I have plenty of rails but no ballscrews so i have to try and stop spending on the rails i need and alot of ones i dont. lol.

Ive spent the past month or so helping a bloke with designing a machine for his new home business in darwin. Its been great helping someone in between all the family birthdays and such. So in other words not much on my machine has been done. Im thinking about paying to get some work done just to move forward with my machines.

Anywa,hope to be writting lots again soon, and catching back up with everyones progress.

Daniel