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kb18951452
06-22-2007, 09:05 AM
Well, Thought it might be time to get things going with a real log of my build.

I have quite a few pictures to show of my progress, I am in the middle of everything, and i could use some help finishing things up with this first machine. A friend of mine pointed out that he is so stuck on the mechanics that he has overlooked the electronics.

DITTO to that.

I collected some motors from a Copy Machine Leasing company. There arnt many specs on many of them, but i thought someone might point me in the right direction, OR maybe someone can simply let me know what kinda power i am gonna need to use for these.

I am not an electrician, so i am pretty lost by the phenomena of what makes my computer go, and lightning strike.

I will show my motors first. ANY help would be nice.

kb18951452
06-22-2007, 09:36 AM
Here is the HDPE i picked p for free.

It measures 5' x 4.5' x 1"

I have 3 that measure that size, as you can see in the picture, and another that is 4.5' x 3' x 1" which is also in the picture.

I'm planning on builsing Joes second machine, in preperation for building his 3rd one (at some undisclosed future date)

as you can see, its blue as all get out.

tybrenis
06-22-2007, 01:03 PM
Looks like your off to a good start. I don't have much advice for you with the motors, but I'm sure someone else here can help you out. Where did you find that much HDPE for free?!

kb18951452
06-22-2007, 01:09 PM
Looks like your off to a good start. I don't have much advice for you with the motors, but I'm sure someone else here can help you out. Where did you find that much HDPE for free?!

http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=8793&view=findpost&p=236824

kb18951452
06-27-2007, 05:26 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/3-Nema-34-400oz-in-Dual-Shaft-Stepper-Motors-CNC-New_W0QQitemZ150135597483QQihZ005QQcategoryZ78196QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Anyone have any thought on these motors,

I'm looking for a place to buy Numa 34 874 oz motors. Any ideas?

(i'm trying to get the same motors as jay)

kb18951452
07-24-2007, 02:37 PM
I bought 906 oz motors from John over at Keling. Bought his prefabbed Power supply, and gecko 201 and the C11 from cnc4pc.

Had a local guy machine my parts for joes predicessor to his 2006. Wanted to get it up and running, and moving forward.

There are just a few more things i need to order online, but i am confused. Call me a newb, but after a year, i am still missing some info.

Antibacklash

Antiwhip

coupler

Ok,

The couplers i am thinking about are lovejoy

I'm planning on getting 1/2"-8 2 start acme rods.

I am confusedWhat keeps the rods on the other end, away from the motor?

I'm building quite a small machine at first. I'de really appreciate some help getting advice on my last few parts. I am set on the leadscrews. Its connecting it to my motors (nema 34s) and fastning the screws in the machine. I know everyone else knows how its done, but i am confused.

Would appreciate some help.

Once i pick these, it will just be a matter of nuts and bolts to get me going.

Anyone? Thanks a million.

rdhharm
07-24-2007, 05:07 PM
I bought 906 oz motors from John over at Keling. Bought his prefabbed Power supply, and gecko 201 and the C11 from cnc4pc.

Had a local guy machine my parts for joes predicessor to his 2006. Wanted to get it up and running, and moving forward.

There are just a few more things i need to order online, but i am confused. Call me a newb, but after a year, i am still missing some info.

Antibacklash

Antiwhip

coupler

Ok,

The couplers i am thinking about are lovejoy

I'm planning on getting 1/2"-8 2 start acme rods.

I am confusedWhat keeps the rods on the other end, away from the motor?

I'm building quite a small machine at first. I'de really appreciate some help getting advice on my last few parts. I am set on the leadscrews. Its connecting it to my motors (nema 34s) and fastning the screws in the machine. I know everyone else knows how its done, but i am confused.

Would appreciate some help.

Once i pick these, it will just be a matter of nuts and bolts to get me going.

Anyone? Thanks a million.

Their are a couple of ways to do that. one is the double nut and the others is dumpster nut.

Hope this helps Rick

kb18951452
07-24-2007, 09:44 PM
And about connecting the motor to the rod?

I have heard of lovejoy couplers.

OHHHH i forgot.

Do i need the dumpster nuts on both ends? meaning, So i need 6 of them? or 3? or some other number?

Its these little details that are getting me emssed up.

joecnc2006
07-24-2007, 10:31 PM
One on each end keeps the leadscrew in place and keeps the pressure off of the motor shaft.

Joe

rdhharm
07-25-2007, 06:31 AM
And about connecting the motor to the rod?

I have heard of lovejoy couplers.

OHHHH i forgot.

Do i need the dumpster nuts on both ends? meaning, So i need 6 of them? or 3? or some other number?

Its these little details that are getting me emssed up.


Yes you can use lovejoys or dumpster has a coupler to do that also

Rick

kb18951452
08-31-2007, 12:49 AM
Ok, been a while. Made allot of progress on my build.

I am doing all the other things, but i am going to be meeting a bottleneck in my project, and thought i might start asking for help now.

I have all my electronics already, u have all the parts i need (except for a resistor i think i need), but i am having a hard time figuring out how to wire it all together.

So, First the Parts List:

Motors:
KL34H295-43-8B (http://www.kelinginc.net/KL34H295-43-8B.pdf) from Keling Inc

Controllers:
Gecko 201's (http://www.geckodrive.com/product.cfm?pid=9)

Power Supply:
KL- 7212 (http://www.kelinginc.net/KL7212.pdf) from Keling

Breakout Board:
C11 (http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/C11R3_WG.pdf) from cnc4pc

I'm confused by the whole matter.

I've got allot of wires, but i don't know where to connect most of them.

Can anyone point me to a diagram? I'd much appreciate it.

Also,

If i need to go farther than the existing cables, What guage wire should i use?

I'm mostly confused by the red black and green wires on my power supply. The instructions tell me to combines the red and black wires in a certain way for my 110 power, but i dont know where to put them after that.

Is "Hot" negative or positive? (from the specs sheet)

Also, Am i missing another power supply to provide 5v to anything? or can i get 5v from something i have listed?

tauntdesigns
09-06-2007, 01:47 AM
Hi,

I was searching for 'cnc4pc' threads and saw this thread. I may be able to help with some of it. I just finished my 1st control box, yes a newbie.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42921

You'll need a power supply for your breakout board with a 5v and 12v output. Something like this one from cnc4pc (A4-power supply).
http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/index.php?cPath=27&osCsid=a199f0b96001ea465bc8edf8ca2ce6e9

Looking at the KL-7212 power supply, I'm thinking you'll need to wire your motors bipolar series, using gecko drives' 4-20 (3-25) rule.

Bipolar Series (4.27v, 3.05amps)
Blue wire connects to gecko phase A
Join red and yellow wires together
Green wire connects to gecko phase B
Brown wire connects to gecko phase C
Join black and orange wires together
White wire connects to gecko phase D

On power supply wiring I had a AC cord that had a green (chassis ground),
white (neutral), and black (hot) wires coming into my enclosure. I connected the green wire (power cord) to chassis, the white wire (power cord) to the two red wires of the power supply, and the black wire (power cord) to a toggle switch and from the toggle switch to the two black wire of the power supply. (* I also put a slow acting fuse (7amp) in between the toggle and power supply*)

You'll need some 36k ohm resistors (current set) for bipolar series wired motors.
You'll need some 470uf caps for the geckos

Good luck (did I say I'm a newbie),
Jack

kb18951452
09-10-2007, 12:23 PM
A friend of mine called me the other day while i was working on a Court Animation (i'm an animator at a firm) and said "Hey, You got your control box yet?"

"Not yet, but i was thinking about using an old breaker box i found."

"Do you want one?"

"A Breakerbox?"

"A real Control Box, you know 6' Tall, 3' wide, and 1.5' wide, came from the Goodyear plant. Are you interested?"

"Are you serious?"

"Yea"

I left work and got my trailer, and the guys at his robotics plant loaded it up for me.

They left about (he tells me) $300-$400 in "goodies" inside for me. all the old relays, buttons, tons of wiring and, my favorite, Igus Track. I'll have pictures as soon as i get my camera out to the shop. Had to cut a few of my rafters to get it in place.

Den-Den
09-10-2007, 08:10 PM
How far are you from Lufkin? Maybe we can get together, I am no expert but have built a small machine and might be able to help.

kb18951452
01-26-2008, 05:15 PM
Been a while since i updated here.

I think i have all my parts, its just getting everything put together, i have found, is the biggest hurdle.

Alright, so i have my electroncis all laid out and have been plugging things together.

I am no expert with electricity, so i wanna make sure i am doing the right thing.

I have 3 terminals on my 72V 12A P/S from Keling. I hve the positive lines connected to one of my geckos, but what terminal on the P/S do i connect the negative? I know this seems like a stupid question, but the geckos say "to common" and i would think that the negative would go tot he negative on the P/S but with the geckos saying "to Common" and since there are 3 terminals on my P/S, which are "+", "C", and "-" the question is, Do i have everything else plugged in correctly, and where do i put the "negative" fromt he geckos?

One other thing, i have the c11 from cnc4pc and i was wondering do ineed to run 5v from the PC AND have 5v and 12v coming from the A4 wallwart i got from cnc4pc aswell? Do i need 3 P/S coming to the BOB?

here are the pictures

joecnc2006
01-26-2008, 06:32 PM
On the Gecko pin #1 is -ground and pin #2 is + power on the Gecko's,

The 201's take 5vdc to pin #10 and no ground, Make sure to put the correct current resister on pins 11 and 12.

Joe

tauntdesigns
01-26-2008, 07:28 PM
Howdy,

Your power supply has (2) red wires and (2) black wires which get connected to AC power.
You'll need a (3) wire AC power cord coming into your control box. The 3 wires on mine were black, white, and green.
Green is connected to chassis for ground.
White wire is connected to the (2) red wires from the PS (power supply).
Black wire is connected to a fuse block and the (2) black wires from the power supply are connected to the other side of the fuse block.

That should get your PS hooked up. now onto the PS to Gecko wiring...

Next post if you wish me to continue,
Jack

tauntdesigns
01-27-2008, 12:44 AM
Hi again,

I got a pen and paper and sketched it out and took a pic with my phone.

Later,
Jack

P.S. The wire from AC power cord to the fuse should have been labeled 'black wire'.
I also forgot to draw in the power on/off switch, oops. I put a toggle between AC power cord black wire and the fuse block.
The fuse between power cord and power supply, I believe I used a 7amp slow blow.
The fuse between power supply terminal block and the Gecko, I believe I used a 5amp fast acting.

kb18951452
01-28-2008, 03:38 PM
thanks a million for the replies.

I've been inching my way thru the electronics for what seems like forever.

I'll go out and give it a shot, and see how how it works.

scott wiggins
01-30-2008, 01:26 PM
What city are you in? I would like to get some of that HPDE. I am in Houston and when I called the city I just confused them.
Scott

kb18951452
03-02-2008, 06:15 PM
ok, Plugged everything up, thought i had it all how it was supposed to go and power it all up.

All the lights were going, th computer was starting up, and then all the sudden the BOB popped a few times and then a small wisp of smoke from one of the ICs on the board, which was rediculously hot when i finally touched it to make sure it came from the one i thoguht it had. I'm sure it won't be working correctly now, but i need to figure out what i did wrong. Atleast its just the BOB and not the geckos

There were some pops and sparks from area (1) first, and then the smoke came from (2)

at first only these (3) lights were on. i plugged one more thing in, i think it was the power i was taking via USB from the computer (the port on the top right) and all the communication lights lit up. Either i plugged that one in, or it was already plugged in and i plugged in the 5v and 12v combination supply from cnc4pc the a4(i think?) all the comm lights turned on (every light but the ones on the top left) and then after several secodns, the board popped then smoke from (2)

So.... i am sure i need a new bob, but does anyone know what i did wrong? power it up in the wrong order (seems like there might be a correct power up order) Anything? If the board repairable? Anyone know?

I appreciate the help.

(note: the jumper on the bob is set for 5v)

tauntdesigns
03-02-2008, 07:04 PM
I'm using the c11G board which doesn't use the usb, it only uses the A4 5v/12v.

I believe that section (pop and smoke) is on the 5v/12v side of the board.

Is it possible you have the wires to the 5v/12v/gnd in the wrong order. If you have a multi-meter, check to see what wire has 5v and what wire is 12v. My wires were a different color then the cnc4pc wiring guide. Mine had 3 wires on the panel mount 5-pin din connector going to the BOB. If you use a multi-meter, one lead to ground wire and the other lead to one of the other wires and see if it's the 5v or 12v and label it and then check the other and label it.

IIRC on the back of the A4 PS there is a pin out diagram of the 5-pin connector.

I'm going out to the shop after the races (Supercross & nascar) and I'll check my wires on the 5V/12V PS.

Jack

tauntdesigns
03-02-2008, 07:38 PM
Caution flag in the race just enough time to check my box out in the shop/garage..

My A4 pin out:
pin1 com
pin2 com
pin3 5V.....(USED red wire)
pin4 com...(USED gold braided wire)
pin5 12V...(USED black wire)

Your pic upper right corner, pin/wire connector from top to bottom:
NC
V_IN
NO
5V
5V
5V......(5V from A4 PS)
GND....(GND/COM from A4 PS)
GND
12V....(12v from A4 PS)
12V

Jack

kb18951452
03-02-2008, 11:20 PM
i am assuming that i only need to have the ports connected with wires that you list in the post as having wires from the a4?

so there should just be 3 wires there?

i might just switch to the c11g to reduce the amount of wiring i need to handle, i think the USBs on my computer are a little iffy anyhow.
what would you suggest?

tauntdesigns
03-03-2008, 03:14 AM
I'm attaching a couple of pics..... my camera sucks bad....

Since your using geckos you don't really need the c11's extra 25pin connector. If I understand correctly...... that connector is used if you are using a 3-4 axis board with a build in 25-pin out, you would then plug it into the BOB and use the BOB's 25-pin to the computer.

So you could use the c11G and only use the one power supply (A4) to run everything. But the other (c11) should have worked.

How did you know which wire went where on the A4 to BOB?

The picture I saw on the CNC4PC website showed the wire colors backwards from what mine actually were. I used a multi-meter to check mine and glad I did. If I had used that pic to wire mine, I would have smoked mine too. The only reason I did check it with a meter was to try and justify having bought one. :)

Looking at your pics above it's hard to see if you have 2 or 3 wires.

Mine has 1 cable that has a red wire, black wire, and a (copper/gold color) braided wire. The braided wire may be the shielding around the other wires.

Cheers,
Jack

kb18951452
03-03-2008, 08:55 AM
yup, mine are backwards from what you have, i have the gold in the middle (like you) but my red and black are backwards, i could just assume i have it backwards,like yours was. I will call arturo and see what he thinks. i noticed on your box you have a green wire coming from the front panel to the left side of the board, and a a red from the front panel to the left side of the board, and aother red one to the left side of the board (both near the top) what are those?
Sure wish you lived in texas so i could just come over and do a copy/cat and have this thing working.

tauntdesigns
03-03-2008, 09:56 AM
I'm right next door... or right across the river (red river).... Oklahoma.

The reason I was asking how you knew which wire went where..... I was wondering if you looked at the same pic on CNC4PC's website I looked at or if Arturo told you where to put the wires? When I e-mailed him to ask about the wires being different then their picture, this is what he e-mailed me:
****(First my e-mail to him and then his reply):****
Arturo,
On the socket, I have (1) black wire, (1) red wire, and a copper braided
wire that has been tinned. Is that right?
It looks different then the picture on your site.
Jack,
The grounds of the power supply are common. The +12VDC is the white wire
and the +5vdc is the red.
********
I had no white wire as you can see, and the picture on his site was different then what he said. I was just thinking if the pic or he told you wrong maybe he'd make a deal on a new board.

The red wires (+5/EN terminal), 1 comes from the +5v terminal to the E-stop switch, from the other side of the E-stop i have 1 red and 1 green, the red goes to the EN terminal. When E-stop is pressed, the 5v to the EN(enable) pin is stopped, the board will stop it's output.
The green wire comes from the e-stop to pin 10, pin 10 is set-up to tell Mach3 that an e-stop has occurred.

Oklahoma or bust, :)
Jack

kb18951452
03-08-2008, 07:54 PM
So i got in the c11g after i let the "magic smoke" out of my c11 (got the 5v and 12v backwards)

I hooked it all together thanks to drawings and pictures from taunt but i am having some trouble now. I started up MachMill and loaded the profile that CNC4PC provides for this bob, and when i hit the up arrow the motor begins to whine really high pitch (with a ramp-up and ramp-down) but the motor never actually rotated. I know its the motor making the noise cuz i held it to my ear. There are two lights on the board right next to the outputs for the X(i only had the X connected) and when i hit "up" one light turns on, and when i hit down the other light turns on and the first turns off (almost like they are buttons for the direction...) anyhow, when i hit "up" the left light lights up bright, but the right light lights up (just a bit). dont know how important that is

what i am wondering, and maybe taunt will tell me since we have the same board...

i am sure i need to do something to setup mach , but all i did was connect the motors up and load the profile from cnc4pc. i didnt change any settings in mach (honestly, i feel like i dont know what i am supposed to do)

Taunt, Think you could send me your profile, do you think that would help? as a start? i know i have t setup things like thetpi and that but i can't even get the motors spinning.

thanks.

tauntdesigns
03-08-2008, 08:31 PM
Howdy,

I just sent you a PM, I did so before I went to this tread and read your new post.

The XML from CNC4PC has the pin sittings as follows......
X step - pin 3 X dir - pin 2
Y step - pin 5 Y dir - pin 4
Z step - pin 7 Z dir - pin 6

I didn't use their XML when I wired mine up. They had more stuff turned on then I had hooked up so I just did my own settings using mach3mill profile.
I told you in the wiring picture to use
X step - pin 2 X dir - pin 3
Y step - pin 4 Y dir - pin 5
Z step - pin 6 Z dir - pin 7

So to use their settings change the wires on the BOB to match theirs.

To set your own without having to find and turn off some of their settings.
You can just go in and change the XML to match your wiring.

Start up Mach3 - click on 'config' - click on 'port&pins' - click on the 'motor output' tab and change the port settings to match yours.

Let me know what I can do to help you,
Jack

tauntdesigns
03-08-2008, 08:50 PM
Do you want me to send my XML?

I wounder if I need to zip it first or if I can send it as is?

Anybody?

joecnc2006
03-08-2008, 11:26 PM
don't forget motor tunning.

kb18951452
03-09-2008, 09:01 AM
ok taunt, you were right, the 2 and 3 were backwards, changed the order in mach and hit the up arrow BAM!!! it worked I'm really excited.

thanks joe, i had read about the motor tuning. I have 900oz motors, i dont know what the tuning is for with my motors, they seem to be going great, no stuttering, they are really quiet, really really quiet, and when i turn the acceleration all the way up they just fly. the manual has allot about TPI and whatnot, i am sure i will need to move thru that really slow.

a friend of mine has been "watching" me do this project now for a year or so? and he wants to build one himself (if i finish mine) kinda makes me wanna just scrap my HDPE construct and go with Extruded T-slot aluminum, (his plans)

Ok, Next stage:

Mount everything in my control box, and run the motor wires over to the machine. Then get my rods installed, motors installed. Feels like the home stretch. And guess what? I only burned up one bob!

tauntdesigns
03-09-2008, 10:33 AM
Congrats,:cheers:

I glad to hear the motors are running fine.

Motor tuning is where you set the steps per inch (or mm), rapids, and acceleration. Yell, when you're ready for the motor tuning and I'll try to explain it.
(example: leadscrew - 10TPI (thread per inch), step motor 200 steps per rev, and 10 micro step drive(Gecko)) So it takes 10 revs of the screw to move an inch and the stepper has 200 steps per rev. To move an inch the stepper would have to turn 10 times (10 times 200steps equals 2000 steps) and using the gecko microstep drive, it multiplies the steps by 10 (each step is divided into 10 micro steps) So you take the 2000 steps and multiply by 10, which would equal 20,000 steps per inch.

That all depends on the screws you use on your build.

Congrats again,:cheers:
Jack

joecnc2006
03-09-2008, 10:46 AM
I think you said you were going to use 1/2-8 two start, so it would be 4x200x10=8,000 steps, set you velocity to 100ipm to start and acceleration to 5. them move up from there.

And final pictures of the machine?

Joe

kb18951452
04-08-2008, 08:16 AM
I have hard enough time getting to the site to post on any progress so it might be a while before i get more pictures.

I have an envelope of X: ~70", Y: ~24", Z: ~4.75"

Bootstrapped a hand drill to it last night and rigged the throttle in order to do my "first cut"

this all brings me to my questions:

So i am "operational" but there are several things i need to do next with the machine. I havea few handfuls of parts that need to go on the machine, and several things i havn't gotten yet.

I have 6 home/limit switches i got from arturo over at CNC4PC (boy that guy is helpful) but i am not exacly sure how i use them. i read somewhere about wiring them a while back, about putting them in series so that the machine stops if any of them get tripped, and then the wiring guide showed another set of them all independant, with 3 homes. So there were limits and homes. Anyone mind clearing this up for me? I have the c11G.

Secondly:

I think its ime for me to buy a router for this project. Its kinda hard searching the forum for advice on purchasing a router when every thread has "router" in it 500 times. Does the brand matter? Anyone have any suggestions on a brand or model i get?

I once read or heard of a hand speed controller for a router (an item from Harbor Freight i think?) Has anyone used Arturo Router Speed control?

I'm planning on working mainly in wood and maybe plastic. I've been so far from the actual machining that i havn' done allot of research on this part. Kinda crazy that i'm acually "here".

One last thing:Bits

What is a good starter collections of bits, and how do i know when to change the bits?

p.s. how can i callibrate my machine?

kb18951452
04-08-2008, 10:30 AM
One other thing,

My y Axis seems to be going in the wrong direction, is there a way to reverse the default direction? Meaning, when i press "up" in Mach3 it moves the y-- i switched the shortcuts, but i dont think that changes the orenation of how Mach3 will respond to my y axis. How do i reverse the direction of the y short of moving the motors to the other side?

tauntdesigns
04-08-2008, 11:06 AM
To reverse a direction in Mach.
Click on 'config' select 'homing/limits' then click in the 'reversed' column of the axis that needs to be reversed.

Jack

kb18951452
04-15-2008, 11:16 PM
Alrighty,

I officially made my first "Cut" today with my machine. I bought the same router that Joe has (2.25 HP Hitachi) and found out that my end mill requires a latrger collet than my router came with. I guess i can get a set of collets? Or maybe i buy bits that requite only one collet size? Never bought them before, someone mind filling me in?

I machined a Pocketed Circle the diameter of my Router to make a router holder (Right now i am strapping the router to the Z with thosemetal screw belts, whatever they are called)

Gonna do the rest with a jig saw, i think, unless Joe reads this and has his original files for cutting out the part.

My material was HDPE (leftovers from the machine construction) ran it at 150 IPM with a .05" cut depth (thats cause i was using my 1/4" drill bit :)

Ran great, shavings all over the place. Next, probably a vacuum system, or soemthing.

Joe, Do you have problems with letting shavings go in the intake on your router? i put a sock over the top of mine.

ok, all for now.

tauntdesigns
04-16-2008, 12:17 AM
Glad to hear you're up and running,

Jack

kb18951452
04-22-2008, 01:00 AM
How is everyone else changing tools during a job?

I am having a had time lining things up, and so when i get the new tool into the router i am having a hard time getting my tools lined up. I have been trying to just run my bit down to the surface of the material and zeroing my Z again, but i am having trouble where even when do that i end up with things not quite right......

How is everyone else changing tools?

Anyone have an ATC?

kb18951452
05-01-2008, 11:11 PM
Ok, So i have been working with the machine for a while.

There are a few things i am running to, things that i am having trouble with.

I am having some trouble with several things. So.... so now i have several questions.

First off, i have no idea how to price the things i am making. How are others deciding how much to charge for things? Do yall work with Machining time? And if so, then how much per hour? Are you making signs? Cabinets? What?

I am having a tough time figuring prices.

So there are several other things i am having trouble with. When i use an Endmill to bottom out a cut in VCarve, and use a VBit for the rest of the job, i am having trouble with the Endmill doing uneven work on the milling. I am thinking it might be some slack in my machine, gonna mess with my Z Axis tommorow. Maybe someone has had some trouble.

Ok, Those are the questions i have, Maybe someone wouldnt mind pointing me to a nice pricing guide.

joecnc2006
05-01-2008, 11:28 PM
depends on what you are making as to how you price things out, give some examples of your work or pictures of it.

Joe