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deckeldoctor
06-08-2007, 03:58 PM
Hello Guys,

Back a month or so ago I upgraded a 700c from level 311 software to 600.

A fellow board member was kind enough to give me a programing manual, but it does not have any info on how to use the graphics.

Can you please help with graphics operation,would you be willing to copy or scan this section of your manual please?

Also is anyone using DNC to this control, if so what software are you using?

Please contact me to make arrangements sentnermts@netscape.com.

Thanks for your help.

Regards
DD

solid sender
10-12-2007, 01:10 PM
I will be back at work Sunday 21st October. I will see what I can find in our manuals. If there is nothing there I may be able to help but I'd need to know what you have already tried. I will also ask about DNC.

aussie28
10-18-2007, 07:59 AM
Hi Deckeldoctor
Maho 432 control is very old I did run DNC using Heidenhain Tnc data transfer software from Heidenhain and it run on Dos I dont know if you still can use it on today win sp or vista.

VWSatOz
11-06-2007, 06:19 AM
I have used serial interface from Cadds5, ages ago though & 2d downloads form EzCam (not DNC though). Maho 432 has 3 buffer zones in the memory for DNC trickle, one in use, one being filled ready to go, one being dumped. You can set the amount of memory reqd. doesnt need much. I never used the graphics. I would rather do it all offline on computer CAM software & verify somehow then send to machine memory or trickle feed for 3d stuff.

deckeldoctor
11-06-2007, 09:49 AM
Hello Guys

Thank you for the replies, a fellow board member has copied the manual for the graphics help.
I have been able to send programs to and from the machine using rs232 no problems.

My customer is now using the machine to its full capability and is now generating long programs from the cad/cam system and I would like to get the Drip feeding to work.

Regards
DD

VWSatOz
11-06-2007, 03:05 PM
The maho manual should tell you how to get drip feeding to work, a lot of button pressing sequence to go through on the Maho keyboard to prepare the mc b4 "go". It's ages since I had need to do it & would would have to dig up the procedure. If no one else helps or you get stuck I will try & find the method I used.

smoregrava
01-29-2008, 05:41 PM
Hi I see that this is an old thread but I have just bougth a maho mh 500 c. with 432 controll on it. I belived that there was no dripfeed options on this controll. Is there different versions of the 432 controll?
what is the memroy of the 432 controll 256 kb ??

Best Regards Arild Brudeli

VWSatOz
01-30-2008, 08:53 AM
My Maho 700HS has Philips 432 has 256 kbytes of which 128 is able to be used & 128 there for editing while a program is still running the machine. There are different versions but I think they can all do the drip feed DNC. If you need any help please ask again & will look up all you need to know. Regards from VWS in Australia.

smoregrava
01-30-2008, 03:49 PM
This is maybe a stupid question but is trickle feed and drip feed the same thing?

A belive that when doing drip feed. The cable have to be of the full handshake type. Its DB25 in the machine and I would like to use the DB9 com port from my computer. could anyone tell me if this is the correct cable? ( Se picture)

I can't find any parameters regarding dripfeed but my manuals is in german and I'm not so familiar with that language. Deckeldoctor did you get your machine up and running with drip feed?

Do anyone have a nice G code program to share. I use Edgecam and will build ut a postprosessor for my machine. And I need some example programs to know how to build up the code. would love a program with drilling and/or 3D milling

thebodger@roger
01-30-2008, 08:28 PM
i do DMG service, so i kinda know a bit about them LOL. not all 432 controls, especially early ones did drip feed, but they could be upgraded with a newer CPU and software. (not cheap though). If your not sure if you can drip feed look for a softkey called BTR (means between the tapereader). if you have this softkey then it should work. The communications constants usually start somewhere above N700 in the constants display. Scroll up and read the discription for each constant. you will need to match them up to your computer for RS232 communication. BTW a simple 3 wire is all that's needed

smoregrava
01-31-2008, 05:09 AM
I wil check in the parameters after BTW. I have not been able to start the machine jet. Because I have 3x230 V AC in my workshop and the machine is buildt for 3x 400V. Anyone know if it is possible to modify the maho mh 500 c to 3x230V?
I belive that this could be hard to do. So I migth buy a transformator.

witch period was the 432 produced? could I see the production year in the serialnumber of the machine maybe?

thebodger@roger
01-31-2008, 06:51 PM
smoregrava:
Probably the cheapest method is to use 220-440 step-up transformer. Much cheaper than replacing servo drives which are most likely 440 volt. The earliest 432 control that I ever saw, was from the early 1980's. It was replaced in the early 1990's by the 532. There were several versions of the 432 during that production run. The 432-12 was the last, I believe. The 432-10 was the most common around here.

solid sender
02-05-2008, 03:44 PM
smoregrava
We also use MH 500 and 800 c machines from the early 80's. We had a similar problem with the power supply and ended up using a tranformer, as 'the bodger' suggested, with no problems. We don't drip feed as we manually input quick programmes which rely on G11, G14, G64, E variables and canned cycles to keep them short. I can send you a few samples if you think you will make use of MDI. We have one piece of literature on drip feeding which suggests the following procedures;
Machine Set Up.-Manual-Menu-1-BTR off-Programme memory-Data In/Out-Input-Auto-DNC-Cycle Start.
Computer Set Up.-CNC files- Open programme-Cursor at top-View-Show send bullet-File-Send to machine.
I don't know how useful this is, it might make more sense once you have power to your machine or maybe 'the bodger' can shed some light on it. Anyway, good luck, they really are good machines so stick with it.

smoregrava
02-12-2008, 09:07 AM
Solid Sender I would love to have som example programs from you.

I have a couple of question regarding maho mh 500. I think my machine is very unstable (short distanse between the legs) could you read this post and see if your machines are like this?
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52333&highlight=maho

Another question. I,m very qonfused with the axes on the machine. I'm used to have the Z axis up and down against the table. but on this machine this is the Y axis. Is it possible to change the axis configuration in the parameters so it could be the same system as the other machines i work with?

solid sender
02-15-2008, 05:59 AM
smoregrava.
I agree with The Bodger in regard to the floor mounting. Our two small 600s are only laying on thin steel and rubber packers just to even up the machine on the concrete floor. They have 100 mm more X travel than your 500 and are still very stable.
I also agree with VWSat, if you unbolt the verticle attachment you will find another spindle nose in the horizontal position, that is G17 and will give you the xyz axis configeration we are all familiar with. 95% of our programmes are written in G18 (with the attachment in the vertical position) only because G17 is so difficult to gain visual access for datum checking etc. I think most machinists struggle with G18 initially, you will understand the xyz configeration it just needs time and practice. Once you have your head round G18 you can then move on to G19, another story entirely.
If you can send me a private message with a postal address I will send you a variety of programmes which will give you a fair understanding of how versatile this processor is. There is too much information for posting on this thread.

smoregrava
04-10-2008, 02:39 PM
Yes yes yes this weekend I conneced my Maho mh 500 to my transformer and started it up for the first time. It works but I need to type inn the machine parameters. I have the parameter list. But it seems as I don't have the permission to save the new parameter. I went into the parameter list and typed inn the parameter. But when I push save, nothing happens. If I understand the manual there is a switch that I have to set on to save parameters. Anyone know where I find this switch?

I have the parameter list. But does anyone have the list that show the meaning of each parameter for the 432 control?

I also found a wire ( to leader) at the end of the spindle motor (picture) but I did not know what this wire are used for. Any Ideas anyone

VWSatOz
04-10-2008, 07:21 PM
Switch off power, open control door at back of MAHO mc & find circuit board with 3 switches on lhs . It should tell you on a label which one is to allow for the parameters to be changed. You will need to switch thew mc off to throw the switch again. It take AGES, be patient! Sometimes you have to repeat the entrys again & again as it does it's own checking I guess.

thebodger@roger
04-10-2008, 07:56 PM
Alternative method to turning on switch. At the operator station, select the constants screen. Press the "operate mc" function soft key. Look for constant N80, move cursor to highlight "C" and press 1 and enter, then store.
This will now appear on screen as N80 C1. (This is the unlock Key parameter).
Now press the "manual operation" key on the operator panel. The control will reboot. Now go to constants screen, and press the "EDIT MC" function soft key. From here enter each constant from the list. You must enter the value for "C" then enter key, then store funtion key. I like to scoll down to the constant that displays the description as "sprache" (excuse my spelling, it is the german word for language) and set it first to language of your choice. Then press "MANUAL" again to reboot the machine in your language. Then continue entering the rest of the constants. As a last important step, you must return constant "N80" to C0, to lock the constant list, then press MANUAL key to reboot. I hope this helps.

P.S. I prefer this method to the switch method, because I can do everything from the operator station. Also if some N constants don't appear, enter the ones that you can. Reboot the control, and the missing ones will appear, because some constants turn on (or make missing ones appear). As stated by VW in above post, you may need to repeat proceedure a few times. You may lose all your settings if the lead acid battery is dead. You may need a new battery if it won't charge.

smoregrava
04-11-2008, 03:25 AM
thanks I really like the panel way. I will try this.

Ibelive that the Battery is faulty because the person who had this before said He had to put inn the parameters Each time he started the machine.

What is the spec of the battery? Is this a very odd battery or something I could buy at a lokal chop. I will change it before I type in the parameters.

thebodger@roger
04-11-2008, 06:46 AM
The battery is nothing really special. It is a 6 volt lead acid gel cell type. It is slightly smaller than a standard motorcyle battery, but it must be 6 volts. I'll try to see if I can find a spare battery around our shop, so that I can give you ampere/hour rating and rough dimentions. You could remove your battery, and just read the specifications from it. I believe on those older controls, it is located under the keyboard.

smoregrava
04-11-2008, 11:28 AM
Okay I open up an take a closer look under the keyboard. And se if I can se a battery. I looked into the back of the machine .but I could't find anyting there. I check it This weekend.

smoregrava
04-12-2008, 05:14 AM
Searchin for the battery.
I Have locked Under the Keyboard. Behind the display And the undrside of the But I can't find this?
Any other place to search for this battery

VWSatOz
04-12-2008, 10:08 AM
My Maho has the battery deep inside the control compartment at the back of the mc. You can not see it at all nor access it without its 12volts becoming disconnected from the memory as you pull out the tray, so you lose all the parameters at battery changes, a real dumb design. You have to undo some screws & pull out a panel or tray/box & a standard gell type lead acid type motorbike type battery is there, about 150mm long.
I saw a photo of a used mc for sale in Germany & they had the battery just sitting there on the floor of the controls compartment always in full view with wires leading into the guts, at least this way you could connect up a new one without power being lost to your memory! A new battery should last for many years, but if you are about to put in all your parameters I would install a new battery first &maybe try the above trick, or look into modifications to allow some way of backing up power during battery swaps.

thebodger@roger
04-12-2008, 01:18 PM
Look for the battery under the cover plate indicated with the arrow in the attached picture. If you control boards are located in the operator station, the battery will be there, NOT on the back of the machine. Only in new type machines did MAHO relocate the control to the back cabinet. If you control is in the operator station, then the battery is there for sure. And just for a side note, it is rather difficult to get tools into the small area to remove it. What I did, was to make the battery wires longer so that I could attach the battery to the side of the cabinet with a small sheet metal bracket. This makes it much easier to check, or replace if needed.

smoregrava
05-13-2008, 09:54 AM
Have been a bit bussy last weeks but yesterday I tried to locate the battery. I found it :banana:. It was under the panel. But I had to take out the power card from Behind/Underneath the panel. I think I will place the battery at the outside of this slot. So it will be easier to check and change if needed.
the battery is 6V 10Ah. In a local shop i found a battery 6V with 12 Ah. This battery had the same messurements as the origianl battery. There should not be any problem to use a 12 Ah battery?

Another CNC opperator in my Area who have a Maho 432 control had a A20 alarm on start up. Anyone have an error list for A errors. I found that this is a system error but can't find any info about it anywhere

VWSatOz
05-13-2008, 12:18 PM
Yes, best to change the setup so as to be able to swap the battery without losing the 6volts power so you cant lose all your memory &parameters, might need double leads for a 2nd ie another battery to allow keeping 6v on while the battery is exchanged. I reckon the bigger battery will be OK if it is fully charged before you fit it.

thebodger@roger
05-14-2008, 07:51 AM
Very good idea to move the battery to a place thats more accessible, for future battery changes. The amp/hour rating is not so critical as long as it is something close to 12/hour. As far as the A20 alarm, I have never seen this, but sometimes when you get these strange alarms it means the system has corrupted constants or some constant is not set correctly. Also when you start the control, look at the self-test during the boot sequence. Observe if everything gets a "pass", or if something fails. You may try reloading the constants, see if that gets rid of the A20.

smoregrava
05-14-2008, 05:41 PM
I got a little closer today. Seems as my control is quite old. I don't have more than 214 parameters. So I migth not have the drip fees oportunety.

I fitted my new battery outside the power box I think this will work OK. I checked the voltage 6.0 before power up. After power up the control 6.15 V.

I cant get the panel version of constant memory switch to work. I press test and choose machine constant menu. But i can't find any "operate mc" soft key.

But I found the switch insde my cabinet. So I inserted all my parameters. Put the switch back again at started up again. But now i got a I01 Error. I found this in the manual. If I translate rigth this means something like conection without voltage. Anynoe have any idea?

thebodger@roger
05-14-2008, 10:38 PM
smoregrava:
I01 usually means the the drives and hydralics are not running. It is the samething as pressing the emergency stop button. This is the normal way the machine starts. Now you must start the machine hydraulics and drives. To do this , first press the "manual" operation button on the panel. Then press the "clear control" button if there is one. Now press the "hydraulic start" and hold it down (you may hear some relays clicking and the pump cycle on). While holding the hydraulic on button down, at same time press the "clear" button on the panel. You may need to repeat the hydraulic-clear button a few time until it catches and stay on. It's kind of like learning to operate the cluch in your car. The timing of button presses is kind of fussy. If it still won't start, press and hold down the hydraulic button, while looking at the 2 digit fault display unit on the side of the electro cabinet. It should show 00 or --, if the system is good. If not and there is some number there, then you need to look in the electrical wiring manual to see what the numbers mean. It usually show someting like low oil level or pressure, or a circuit breaker is tripped.

smoregrava
05-15-2008, 03:13 AM
I tried the clear and hydraulic buttton but notting happend. When I did this before I heard that the machine connected so it should work after I have added my parameters. I also checked the emergency button on the panel but now I remeber that it is one more emergency button on the side of the cabinett. I migth have pressed this in by an acident while trying to reach my memory button ( Machine is standing a little close to the wall). I forgott this(chair)



Here is how i fitted the battery
outside the power card. And a picture of my memory switch inside my cabinet
manual after is the screen a have when starting up after all parameters is set.

smoregrava
05-16-2008, 02:30 AM
As I asumed the emergency button on the cabinet was activated. I reset this and tried to start up again. Now I hear the hydraulics connect. But still I can't manage to stay conected. I cant find any 2 digit fault display unit on the side of the electro cabinet. My machine migth be a little older. anyway I will recheck oil levels and circut breakers, end switches and more. I have not conected any air pressure to the machine. Acual I havent seen any connection for air. I have to look a little closer. Seems to me as I am really close to a working machine here

smoregrava
05-16-2008, 03:37 PM
I have checked oil levels and have tried to set the hydraulic button. But it wont stay on. After some testing I discovered that if I hold the hydraulic button in and press clear. Then I war able to jog the axes. I tested all tree axses in bouth directions. Worked fine. Strange that I can't manage to stay on. When I hold the button down and press clear it seems to be in ready position.

thebodger@roger
05-16-2008, 04:47 PM
I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what your trying to say. It is normal that you have to press "clear" button after holding the hydraulic start button. Are you saying that the machine will not stay on if you release the hydraulic button??

smoregrava
05-16-2008, 06:00 PM
yes correct it does not stay on when I release the hydraulic button.
I have tried the sequence you dercribed. But it wont stay on.
Also tried to press bouth buttons at the same time two times inside 5 sek.

deckeldoctor
05-18-2008, 10:28 AM
You must press " Hydraulic Button" ,"Hydraulic button" ," "Clear button" and "Hold" the "clear button" until the machine starts all within 5-10 seconds or it will not start.

It may take a couple of times of doing the above sequence.

Regards
Deckeldoctor


Bodger I may be coming to your area in a couple of weeks for service calls.

smoregrava
05-19-2008, 02:40 AM
Tried the secuence this morning. But same result. As soon as I release hydraulic button the hydraulicsgoes off. I tried press " Hydraulic Button" ,"Hydraulic button" ," "Clear button" and "Hold" the "clear button" until the machine starts but it won't start.

When I turn machine on i got error I01,I01
If i hold down the hydraulics and press clear and release the Hydraulic button then I got O05,I01 Regarding to my manual this seems to be rigth. and the manula says I then should press Hydraulics and clear button.

Anyway. If I hold the hydraulic button pressed in with one finger. I'm able to run all the axes. I also mannage to do referens search in all axses.

I took a fast look into the wiring scheme. And I se that it should be a ligth showing the Hydraulics is on. Should this ligth up when I press down the hydraulic button? I belive the ligth bulb is in the button?
There is no ligth there now.

deckeldoctor
05-19-2008, 11:03 AM
You must press " Hydraulic Button" ,"Hydraulic button" ,"AND "Clear button" and "Hold" the "clear button and hydraulics " until the machine starts all within 5-10 seconds or it will not start.

Sorry for the typo in the above post, the second time you must press hydraulics and clear and hold until the machine starts.


Did this machine operate before?

If this is the first time this machine is being commissioned try changing 2 wires of the 3 phase going into the machine maybe the hydraulic pump is trying backwards and cannot build pressure and the machine will not start because of this.

Regards
DD

smoregrava
05-19-2008, 11:16 AM
Yes its the first time I start this machine. The owner before me never had it running. Because he did not have 400V in his workshop. I did not have 400 V at my workshop eigther so I bougth a 220-400 step up transformer. I have to check this

mvh Arild Brudeli

deckeldoctor
05-19-2008, 11:42 AM
I looked at you Ski winch thats one way to do it with no boat.:cheers:

I too ride motorcycles,I have had a BMW 500 & 600. My current motorcycle is a 1981 Honda Goldwing that I bought new and it has 176,000 miles on it with no problems. I have never had to much to it other than maintenance change the cam belts and cables.

Regards
DD

deckeldoctor
05-19-2008, 01:16 PM
Hello Arild

You are logged into the site have you tried switching the wires?

Regards
DD

smoregrava
05-20-2008, 02:30 AM
I tried to change 2 wires of the 3 phase and guess what :banana::banana:

Yes the machine works. I testet the spindle to and everything seems to work. Nice thanks folks for helping me out.

Now I will try to learn some of the integrated cycles of the machine and I wil connect to a computer. I have made a postpocessor for edgecam witch I Use as CADCAM software. I'll share it here at CNCzone when it's done

The Ski winch is greate fun. It's really a great accelration.

Deckeldoctor great to heare there is more motorcyclist's here. Have you done any nice parts for you bike on the CNC machines? Here is a picture of a Barke fluid cover I made on my old EMCO CNC

deckeldoctor
05-20-2008, 08:42 AM
Hello Arild

Glad to here it is running.

I have made some parts for my motorcycle brass inserts GL1100 that go on the heads, and a few other parts.


Regards
DD

thebodger@roger
05-22-2008, 10:44 PM
smoregrava, glad to here you got it running! sorry i have not posted for a while , but I have been busy, I'm installing floors in my house. My better half has just purchased a new flat screen Sony TV and she wants that installed too, so i have alot of work taking up my spare time. Deckeldoctor, if your coming up to Canada, please PM me if your in the Toronto area. If you get some free time while your here, it would be nice if you drop into our shop for a little tour to see our operation, and some pet projects my sidekick and me are up to.

PS smoregrava, forgot to mention. That's a mean looking GSX. They were nice fast bikes. I have a 1991 FZR 1000 with only 10000 kilometer in my garage, lots of yoshimura, and home made titanium and alloy parts. It's deadly fast. Maybe time to sell it , I'm getting a bit too old

smoregrava
05-23-2008, 03:45 AM
thebodger@roger you can't be to old for motocycles....
"home made titanium and alloy parts" music to my ear any pictures?

Yesterday I was testing a little on my machine. I realiced that it's very time consuming to teach in program from the panel. So I have to fix my Serial connection rigth away. Then I can write the program on my computer and download it to the machine. I belive that the DB25 connector at the side of the panel is the place to connect for serial to computer. I also found some more connectors on the machine. (picture conector1_2)Is any of this for a Jog wheel?


I don't have jog wheel but i would love to have that on my mahcine.

the DB15 and the Multi connector. could that be for a C axis? My machine is mh 500C and I have heard that this means it has a C axis but I don't know. I don't have any C axis so I just wondering.

kotten1
07-06-2008, 06:45 AM
I tried to change 2 wires of the 3 phase and guess what :banana::banana:

Yes the machine works. I testet the spindle to and everything seems to work. Nice thanks folks for helping me out.

Now I will try to learn some of the integrated cycles of the machine and I wil connect to a computer. I have made a postpocessor for edgecam witch I Use as CADCAM software. I'll share it here at CNCzone when it's done

The Ski winch is greate fun. It's really a great accelration.

Deckeldoctor great to heare there is more motorcyclist's here. Have you done any nice parts for you bike on the CNC machines? Here is a picture of a Barke fluid cover I made on my old EMCO CNC

Hi!
Are you still haft too press hydraulic button, hydraulic button and clear button too start up the machine.
Even that you changed 2 wires of the 3 phase?

I just wondering because we have an MAHO 800E whit CNC432 and we also haft to start the machine that way.
I fought that was something wrong whit the machine but maybe it should be like that.

We have a problem whit connecting computer to the machine.
Does any one now how the cable should be?
Do you have to use full handshake?
There are DB25 in the machine and DB9 com port from the computer.

kotten1
/Sweden

smoregrava
07-06-2008, 01:24 PM
Yes I still have to press hydraulic button, hydraulic button and clear button too start up. This is a normal startup on 432 controllers.

I have not testet the serial cable but I hope to test this during the summer. I inform you all when I have some results.

helderacail
07-08-2008, 07:29 AM
Hi
I have a Maho 600E with cnc432. The machine as lost the parameters. I put the parameters again but now, after turning on the machine, it appears an alarm: Io1 and it says interface not initialized. It's the first time that i'm turning on this machine. I don't now how to operate with it.:confused:
Can anyone help me in this?

VWSatOz
07-09-2008, 05:44 PM
you have to press the two start-up buttons in quick succession & repeat again. ie do this TWICE Green start (& clear control (I think))

smoregrava
07-10-2008, 01:03 AM
The alarm means you have not started the hydraulics. If you read this thread I had some problems with the start up sequense. I had to change two wires of my 3 phase intake. And then the hydraulic stayed on

Star up sequense:
" Hydraulic Button" ,"Hydraulic button" ,"AND "Clear button" and "Hold" the "clear button and hydraulics " until the machine starts all within 5-10 seconds or it will not start.

helderacail
07-10-2008, 04:29 AM
I never turn on this machine. Are you saying that i must press the button next to emergency button twice and then clear button and then clear button and start button at same time?
I see that this machine it's very complicated to turn on :confused:.
I will tried to do this.
Thanks to all.
Regards

smoregrava
07-10-2008, 07:45 AM
Yes the button next to the emergency is the Hyrdaulic button. Yes the startup is quite uniqe. But when you fist have done it its no problem. My manual state something that the machine checks the emergency system so the machine always has to be started up twice.

The time between first and second activation of the Hydralic button should not be more than 5- 10 seconds.

smoregrava
07-15-2008, 09:45 AM
Yesterday my Maho 432 to talked to my computer(DNC)for the first time:D. I have made a DB9 to DB25 full handshake cable (Like in the picture). And i used Hypertermial to transfere the programs. easy and seems to work nice

Here is how I did it if anyone wants to know:

First I checked Machine constants
Nr 115 =1 means 2 as stop bit (=0 means 1 is stop bit)
Nr 116 Input Baudrate and
Nr 117 output baudrate. In my case baudrate was set to 300, but I found in some papers that they had used 4800 before on my machine so I will change this as soon as possible.

Then I opened Hyperterminal (Is in windows under comunication)

I used this parameters
connect to Com1
Baudrate= 300
Data bits= 7
Parity= Equal
stop bits= 2
Flow controll Hardware

Send CR at line end
Local ecco

Then I go to the controll and press
"MANUAL"
"PART PROG"
I selected ALL MEMORY
press "MEM LOCK"
"DATA INPUT"

Then I used a simple program as a test

% PM
N9008
N1 G1 X20 F500
N2 G1 Y20
N3 M30


I marked the text/program above and rigth click in Hyper terminal window and choose "Paste to Host"

When all lines was sent I have to press
"CTRL+D" on the computer. Then the program is in the controll.
I Actually don't anderstand why I have to press ctrl+D. But is works

I also loaded programs and tool table out of the machine to the computer.

mte.jalal
07-28-2008, 02:19 PM
Hi,

Remember, when you are starting machine,if you see sth in front of coordinates, press the Hydraulic bottom until the writtings are cleared then simultaneously push hold bottom.

kotten1
08-07-2008, 04:32 AM
Yesterday my Maho 432 to talked to my computer(DNC)for the first time:D. I have made a DB9 to DB25 full handshake cable (Like in the picture). And i used Hypertermial to transfere the programs. easy and seems to work nice

Here is how I did it if anyone wants to know:

First I checked Machine constants
Nr 115 =1 means 2 as stop bit (=0 means 1 is stop bit)
Nr 116 Input Baudrate and
Nr 117 output baudrate. In my case baudrate was set to 300, but I found in some papers that they had used 4800 before on my machine so I will change this as soon as possible.

Then I opened Hyperterminal (Is in windows under comunication)

I used this parameters
connect to Com1
Baudrate= 300
Data bits= 7
Parity= Equal
stop bits= 2
Flow controll Hardware

Send CR at line end
Local ecco

Then I go to the controll and press
"MANUAL"
"PART PROG"
I selected ALL MEMORY
press "MEM LOCK"
"DATA INPUT"

Then I used a simple program as a test

% PM
N9008
N1 G1 X20 F500
N2 G1 Y20
N3 M30


I marked the text/program above and rigth click in Hyper terminal window and choose "Paste to Host"

When all lines was sent I have to press
"CTRL+D" on the computer. Then the program is in the controll.
I Actually don't anderstand why I have to press ctrl+D. But is works

I also loaded programs and tool table out of the machine to the computer.

Can you run the machine whit drip feed?

smoregrava
08-07-2008, 04:23 PM
No I have not been able to drip feed. It seems my controller is to old. My mahcine parameters only goes up to 214. I have done some testing and my controll can take something like 2400 lines. I have tested some 3D milling at it works:) But programs easely get bigger than 2400 lines.

A nice thing is at its possible to load a new program while another program is running.

I have done some testing will try to post some pictures of som engraving I have done. And I made some really simple but usefull programs as standard progams that lies on my computer and just download when needed. like pockets. drilling circular pattern and so on.

smoregrava
08-07-2008, 05:47 PM
Some small tests. Here is two examples of some tests I did. The maho cycles picture is just testing some of the internal cycles in the 432 controll. The other is a small engraving done from a DXF in Edgecam with my home made postprocessor.
The material is EBABLOCK a very nice material to machine.

gics
09-15-2008, 05:40 AM
please, is someone here!

smoregrava
09-24-2008, 04:49 PM
please, is someone here!

Yes I'm here (after some weeks)

Unfortunally I have been strugeling with my machine (Mh 500C 432) tonigth. When I transfere programs the last 5 lines of the program is not transfered and the controll do not respond. Have to type inn the last lines. Very strange. I have been trying some different Machine constants so I will try to change everything back. But It would be very usefull if anyone had a full description of the Constants. I have a german version but many constants has no names or notes.

VWSatOz
09-24-2008, 04:58 PM
I had this problem ages ago and am trying to remember how to fix problem. I think you need to have a Control-D sent at the ned of your program. You can type it in yourself at the sending PC or have your post processor add it onto the end.
Originally I used to simply add a whole heap of carriage return key strokes (end of line arrows) more in number than the max number of lines you are losing say about 10 extra lines with noting in them... this was until I found Control-D did the trick.

Norway is a long way from Australia ! we are all upside down here but Maho still work OK if you bolt it to the floor tightly it will not drop off the globe!

smoregrava
09-24-2008, 06:03 PM
Thanks VWSatOz

I filled in some empty lines at the end. And then I could edit in the M30 at the end. But it's very strange it did not do this before. seems like when the controll discover the M30 it just stops reciving so it does not recive the control +D eigther when I type it in. and this have worked nice before. So the only way I figured out to make the controller respond is to press auto. Then the control come out of the Data in mode. But if I try to send a new program it won't recive anything. So I have to restart the machine to make it recive anything??

I still belive it could be something with my constants. I know I have tried som different values on the C114 But I'm not shure what it is.

I checked my constant list. and many of my constants has a (*) after (see picture). What does this mean? constants 112,113,114,115,116,117,153,154,158,159,163,164,168,169,195,196 is marked this way.

Anyone know how to send all the constants out. I manage to send all programs,macros and tool offset list but don't know how to send the constants

Here we do not need to bolt the maho to the floor. But the fingers can be really cold :-)

smoregrava
09-24-2008, 06:13 PM
I was wrong the Mem lock key still ends the Data input mode. At least I don't need to restart the machine to load a new program. But still I miss the last lines of my programs

VWSatOz
09-25-2008, 06:22 AM
I'm not sure what the constants stars/asterisks mean, I will have a look sometime. Usually all the options available for that constantare shown between the brackets I think, just to help you decide what value to put in the constant.
The sun is pouring in the window today and has made the Maho paint fade on the back panels so I have rolled down a bamboo blind today for the coming summer here... we often get 38C heat! Too many men/Mahos=too much C02? Up Norway "your way" it's dark 22hours/day?? so no paint fade I guess with only 2 hours of Sun??
James Bond had gold fingers too!

VWSatOz
09-25-2008, 06:25 AM
The padding I used at the end of the program was a whole string of M30 lines.
I must also try to save back my constants again, it is a real pain to get them all in and all right if your battery goes flat! Must enter & reboot many times before mc accepts then correctly with manual constants key-in

smoregrava
10-06-2008, 09:42 AM
A series of M30 lines at the end worked fine. I inserted that in the post. Last week I did some really intersting machining. I made some logo's in 1200x2000mm alu. The work piece was so big I had to use a suportwheel boltet to a hydraulic table to suport while running :-)
The machine works nice. Ane I use a USB cam to see whats happen. I have a computer placed by the machine and USE Logme in so I watch the machine from my living room:-)
Maybe it would be a nice idea to connect a USB IO card also so I could turn of the machine if needed

My spindle seems to be alittle hot. 50 degrees Celsius on the outside while running long programs at 3000 O/min is that to high. Do I have to change my bearings??

kotten1
10-06-2008, 03:01 PM
Hi!
Maybe it’s a stupid question, but for me how don’t now it is a little bit difficult.
So how are you doing then you set zero point in regular way to G52 or maybe it’s G53?

Regards/
Kotten1

VWSatOz
10-06-2008, 05:50 PM
Glad the M30s work OK
I guess you must be running the spindle for a very long hours/time nonstop if you are watching it it with webcam from home, very clever idea! 3000rpm is not very fast but heat is created by the lube/oil viscosity friction, horsepower/work is being done against this drag, so temperature must rise until outgoing radiant heat and convection to air heat losses are equal to heat being created inside. You should simply try a fan blowing cooling air from one side from a distance or as close as possible, wait till it gets to 50C then turn on fan and see if temp drops... should make big difference. Seals can cause frictional heat too but I dont know if Maho spindles have rubber flaseals. My mc has toolchange with airblow and the tool &toolchuck used to get very hot when dry cutting big 3D tool/die surface at 5000rpm overnight untended dry cutting (tool would fail if I tried with coolant). I rigged up another low pressure air supply to the airblow pipeline to trickle feed cooling air to pass through the hollow pullstud and through the toolholder out through the slots in the ER25 collet and onto the heavy job too. Worked excellent!
If your bearings were crook I think you would hear alot of noise but I assume they would be slightly preloaded when originally assembled. They may be grease packed with that very special spindle grease and just need disembly and regreasing, but I believe the amount of grease is very critical, big problems if too much. I don't think 50C is high enough to harm anything but it must be much hotter than this on the inside. My mc had temp compensation sensor only on the vertical spindle and I have to have a second sensor etc fitted to the horizontal to cope with 0.1mm error from thermal growth 6000rpm on aluminium work all day so heat build up in the ram is well known to me.
I like your work supports! as long as the table doesnt have to move up/down too far?

thebodger@roger
10-06-2008, 09:45 PM
VWSatOZ:
Good Reply. I tend to agree. These spindles were never intended to go to speed much above 3000. When I used to work for MAHO they used to recommend only light intermittant duty at that RPM. In fact they used to sell a "add on" optional high speed refridgirated high frequency spindle for this type of work. And don't forget, that bevel gear setup in the ram adds a ton of heat too. Check oil levels there all the time. It can cost you big if you ignore that simple fact. I think that in Norway you get some cool air, perhaps a simple "muffin" or a scrap computer fan bodged up around the spindle with some ty wraps or a hose clamp may offer some peace of mind. Can't hurt.

smoregrava
10-07-2008, 04:29 AM
Hi thanks for answers.I migth try a fan. I have checked oil leveles. But my lube for the spindle migth be with to high firction? I have considered an Extra High rpm spindle for engraving as an attacment to the spindle housing. Would be nice to to 30.000 rmp for engraving.

I have not done very long programs jet only a couple of hours. Only able to input programs of 60 Kb :-( But my machine is in the basement so I able to take a little rest while machine is running.

Kotten1 regarding the Zero offset I moustly do one off items so I just jog to my workpiece offset the press "menu/test" "Reset axis" and type in x0y0z0 "Enter" "Store" the I'm ready to go. If I hit emergency or have to turn off the machine before I have finnished I just recall the latest offset by choosing "teach in" and type G52 and press "start". then my latest zero offset is back. I belive you could copy active zero offset to G53 to G59. But I have never done that

kotten1
12-01-2008, 05:39 AM
Hi

How do you do when you start the machine without any tool in the spindle?
I get the messages E160, E180 then I try to start it.
(Maho 800E whit Philips 432)

/Regards
Kotten1, Sweden

VWSatOz
12-01-2008, 02:51 PM
I always command T0 M6 manually data input so the machine has no tool in the spindle when left off for the night or for many days, this is said to be good practice so the tool does corrode with coolant or get stuck in for some other reason. My machine always boots up OK with the spindle empty. It is sometimes not a good idea (on some machines?) to run the spindle for long or at all without a tool in the spindle as the drawbar springset will be fully back, travelling too far, & its bump button may then be rubbing on the hydraulic knockout bumper pin? It is very important to have all thes things set correctly, so the tool ejects cleanly and yet is pulled in securely and safely for machining.
If you get E160 or E180 error message your machine should be able to tell you with more written information of what those errors mean (in your language of choice). It may be that the sensor(s) inside the spindle (that detects if the tools has been pulled into the 40 taper correctly?) is sending you the error.

kotten1
12-04-2008, 03:10 PM
Hi

We have an IBAG spindle in our machine, and you always have to have a tool in the spindle then you run it.

So now we always have a toll in the spindle then we turn off the machine.


Regards/
Kotten1, Sweden

kotten1
12-04-2008, 03:17 PM
Hi

How are you run the machine in jog-mode after that you have push emergency button?

Regards/
Kotten1, Sweden

smoregrava
11-01-2009, 03:54 AM
Hi Yesterday I was doing som milling in a big workpiece. I had to do some inspecion and hit stop while machine was running. Everything seems right and I started up again.

But my spindle rev was going to the sky. I hit emergency. I checked my program startet from beginning. S2000 start up and the spindle just go faster and faster ( way beyond 2000rpm) Then the machine stoped and I got error
I68. In my papers(in sweedish so I try translate) it says Feedback missing for n- is = n-programmed.

And now I'm stucked with a half job done on a engine cranckase not able to run my machine.

My first idea was that it must be something with the rpm sensor at the end of the spindle motor. I have had it apart everything looks rigth but I really don't know how to check it.

Anyone experienced something like this?

BR Arild

VWSatOz
11-01-2009, 05:17 PM
My machine similar tricks on me once ages ago when trying to mill very hard T6 aluminium at high 5000 rpm with big Face cutter and heavy feed, mc would detect that RPM had slowed & interupt the feed until rpm went back up then it would feed again & repeat same effect all way along the cut!, My power supply 415v may have been not beefy enough & cause of many problems since, hot joint was found on one of 3 phases in fuse borad on facty wall. Your problem seems different & error is telling you. RPM is going higher than programmed, so your guess of sender being bad may be correct way to look at fixing the problem. The mc is constantly checking the rpm against that in the program S1000 etc Might be the motors control supply board/unit, check if all wires leading from /to are not broken loose etc?

thebodger@roger
11-03-2009, 06:46 PM
smoregrava:

Can you post a picture of the sensor at the back of the spindle motor? I believe on these older D.C. motors, they mostly had a tachogenerator for RPM feedback. If this generator doesn't produce the proper output voltage for the requested speed command the motor will go to maximum overspeed RPM, because it is waiting for this voltage from the tachogenerator. Possible problems could be something simple like the tacho brushes are stuck and not in contact with the commutator. The brushes (small carbon) are pressed against the commutator with little springs. Check this. Second problem could be broken wire from tacho to the spindle driver. Last and not so nice, is defective spindle driver controller. A word of caution, if you plan to remove the tacho from the spindle motor, be VERY careful of the fine copper wire windings. If you damage them, this unit costs more than 1000 canadian dollars! I would start with a digital voltmeter, first check, with meter set to OHMS for a fairly low resistance at the tacho wires. If it shows no reading , or is very high ohms, then maybe a issue with brushes. Next put meter to low voltage D.C. scale, and spin the spindle as fast as you can by hand, look for a voltage that follows the speed of spindle. Then try to find the wires from the tacho where they connect at the driver, measure again for low ohms, same reading as at the motor, to ensure the wires from the tacho to the driver are not broken. Please post again with your findings. good luck

smoregrava
11-04-2009, 01:08 AM
Here is some pictures

Yes I also belived that it was the tacho or the wires. I checked the wires and they Is allright. A service man told me that the tacho delivered AC but it is DC. It generates a small voltage by turning it by hand. If I start up I revs up to 4700 o/min the tacho generates 90 Volt.

Is still sounds as it have the wrong feedback because if I program S2000 M3 the machine starts and revs up to something that sounds as max and then the error comes. Amp meter shows 10 Amp until it stops with error I68.

Maybe it could be the drive that have a problem. I can't understand this. It worked allrigth I stopped and when I started ut agagin i had this RPM problem

smoregrava
11-04-2009, 01:16 AM
I have added a short video clip of a startup. Need sound to hear the spindle. Shows the amp meter of the spindle motor.

http://www.smoregrava.net/Maho/startup_problem.WMV

smoregrava
11-05-2009, 02:28 AM
I have all the time belived that there was some problem with my tahco but this seems allrigth. shows around 90 V at max rpm
I did a little check on the status led on the spindlemotor drive and I belive that this does it right. Seems like it indicate that in the beginning the RPM is to low then The RPM is correct and at last the RPM is to high. But all the time the motor is accelerating max. I did a short videoclip to show. And on attached picture you could see the same leds a little clearer

http://www.smoregrava.net/Maho/Maho_rpm_reg.wmv

So my problem is probably in the drive and in the last part of regulation. Do you know about any parts that normaly give up in a simoreg drive like this?

thebodger@roger
11-05-2009, 07:31 AM
Do you know of a local company that does repairs to industrial electronic equipment? We have a good number of repair shops for this type of equipment in north america, there must be in europe too. I believe it would be the cheapest and easiest solution. If you are thinking about replacing it with the same model drive, then this may prove to be expensive and possibly difficult to find. Another option is to retro-fit it with something similar. As far as knowing exactly what area of this driver is faulty, it is impossible to say without actually testing and troubleshooting it.

smoregrava
11-07-2009, 12:22 PM
yesterday I had a visit from a service man that is very clever with old machines. we checked the signal from the controller and its ok. we also checked the output from the drive and this seems ok. we belive the problem is on the first card. the drive is a siemens drive. called Simoreg. i havent found any of this cards for sale. so I will try tol replace all the ic's an the transistors on the card. The card is quite simple see picture

thebodger@roger
11-08-2009, 06:44 PM
Take your ohms meter and start at the point where the tacho input pins are. Then meter you way along the circuit board, following the traces. Look for possible places where there maybe a broken connection. Sometimes on older circuit boards the soldering fails from age and vibration. Just an idea for another thing to look for.

Good Luck

AndreasL
11-09-2009, 11:37 AM
A shame we dont live closer.

Othervise you could have borrowed my Simoreg-card to verify if its the real problem.

Good luck!

smoregrava
11-11-2009, 06:37 PM
Still no luck finding the probelm. I have now soldered in new ic's and transistors on the Simoreg card A1 A1089. But the result is exactly the same. ( Yes AndreasL it would be nice to have you next door now:-)

I should really had the detail scheme for the card A1098 and A1086 because I'm pretty shure the problem is somewhere on those cards. Any one have that?
Its a simoreg 6RA2620 - 6DV57-0

I have uploaded the el cheme on my machine (mh500c)

http://smoregrava.net/Maho/Maho_mh500c_432_electrical_scheme.pdf

and I have also uploaded the simoreg manual/tech spec

http://smoregrava.net/Maho/siemens_simoreg_spindle_drive.pdf

Today I have checked my potmeters R231,R8,R192,R149,R62,R279 But every thing seems rigth

AndreasL
12-08-2009, 09:25 AM
Smoregrava:

Any thing new?

Any progress?

Solved?

Send a mail if you need any measurments.

I have som hydraulic issues right now but think I will get them solved as sone I have time to take a look at it...at least I hope so.

smoregrava
12-09-2009, 04:38 AM
No results. Have replaced all Ic's on card 1 and many on card 2 but still same problem. So still have some hour's with testing before It's up an working again.

AndreasL
12-09-2009, 04:55 AM
Sad to hear that Arild.

But good to hear its at least progress.

Keep up and you will get there.

If anything, give me a "pling".

smoregrava
06-21-2011, 06:36 PM
Hi I have now manage to find a new AC spindle motor and I have upgraded to a newer Maho 432 controll. The machine started up nice and I have entered parameters ( Had to guess on some because There is many parameters in the new controll that I did not have)
But in the startup prosess there seems to be a problem with the IO card. When I start up the controll does some test all is passed except the I/O that gets No responce. I have not changed the card after I changed the controll.
the old I/O card has a diagnostics card connected. The new card seems a little different. There is no diagnostics. Maybe this new I/O card has diagnostic integrated


When I go into the PLC I/O screen. I see that it happends a lot on the inputs when I press the hydraulic button. But nothing happend on the outputs. Output 17 seems to be high all the time. But that seems a little strange. Does anyone know if I have to change the IO card when I switch to a newer controll?

aventtini888
06-05-2015, 04:55 PM
Hello , i sow you thread and now i got the same machine in my shop . I have changed the battery . Put the parameters manually . I can get the hydraulics to stay on . Maho mh500c - YouTube (http://youtu.be/DVS150TjtIA) . I have tested the drive from diagnostics and the motors move . I got some schematics from web but no help . I think some of the relays are missing

aventtini888
06-05-2015, 05:30 PM
282470282470282472

aventtini888
06-06-2015, 02:31 AM
Now after a read all the topics on the net i see that there is a panel on the side and there a 2 numbers 55.

RotarySMP
08-14-2015, 09:44 AM
Did the Problem with the spindle drive replacement ever get fixed Smoeregrava?

I am looking at a MAHO MH500W4 with a Philips 432, and was wondering if it is possible to disconnect the electrical cabinets for Transport? Do they have disconnects, or is the wiring all hard wired through from machine to boards?

I have a 70cm wide door between my Garage and my machine shop. and only about 185cm high Garage door. Does the foot casting wdth exceed 70cm? Can the machine Z axis (as MAHO defined it), the one on top, be removed for Transport? Has anyone removed the X and Y axis from one of these who could advise on that?