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Durkee
04-17-2003, 01:24 PM
Would there be any interest in a forum dedicated to toolgrinding and toolgrinding machines? I've been a toolgrinder for nearly 20 years and would be happy to share information. I always have questions, too. I'm having trouble finding a good forum related to just tooling.

cncadmin
04-17-2003, 01:29 PM
I have no problem add it, I see a grinding machine at a local show and was impressed by it.

Tarak
04-20-2003, 06:22 PM
Yeah I'm also a tool grinder, I've been in the trade for about 12 years in Australia, I wouldn't mind a toolgrinding forum, I personally use AutoCAD and grind threading tools such as all kinds of taps (Fluteless/Forming, Gun nose ,spiral flute), thread rolls, screwed shanked endmills and such.

cncadmin
04-20-2003, 09:37 PM
Done, enjoy!

Durkee
04-21-2003, 08:43 AM
Thanks Paul!

Durkee
04-21-2003, 08:43 AM
Thanks Paul!

Jake
05-21-2003, 12:57 AM
Hi i work with toolgrinding in Sweden, and think that a forum
would be a nice idea

//Jake

farr_t
01-15-2006, 09:35 PM
I think its great i have been a tool and cutter grinder for 23 years
and my older brother has been grinding for 30 years.
I am the only tool grinder in a lare aerospace company
and I can see how tool grinding is becoming a dying trade
I think you never stop learning because there are alot of good ideas or tricks
to grinding tools hopefully this forum can help save some money for people
and give some good tips and tricks.

Ibuytooling.com
01-17-2006, 08:22 PM
i buy cutting tools

Mcgyver
01-17-2006, 11:30 PM
farr t, great to have you here. I've a small T&C grinder I'm using and making accessories for. It came with an air spindle which is a great thing to have for end mills and I've been making other accessories

anyway, its great to have some expertise here and i would encourage more people to consider either a used or small T&C grinder. After having one I’m kicking myself for waiting so long – its one of the later things you seem to acquire but always having a razor sharp cutter really improves workmanship imo. I'd kind of like to pick up a horizontal mill now that I can sharpen my own (expensive) cutters for it!

mmorton9
01-25-2006, 04:59 PM
I would like it very much. I have been toolgrinding for 30 years. Most of that for an aerospace company and the last 4 for a company that makes primarily taps and end mills. If you have a grinder and can make tooling there really isn't much you can't do.

Switcher
01-25-2006, 07:04 PM
Well you guys got me beat by about 15-20 years. I've only been Toolgrinding for about 5 years now, all CNC.

Anyone from Upstate South Carolina (Spartanburg) area ?

What type of machines does everyone run?

This is the machine I run:
http://www.schuttetgm.com/305.htm

I think I'm the only one out here that runs this type of machine (Havn't found anyone else) :)

.

Mcgyver
01-25-2006, 11:51 PM
Switcher, you may think you're the T&C noob, but brother you got me beat, both in experience and equipment.

I bought one of these (used) last year.

http://www.heinmanmachinery.com/specs23.pdf

The advantage I have is its in my garage so i bet the commute is shorter :). It also has an air spindle that is sooo nice to use for endmills

I've been making some accessories for it and basically it gets used on hss endmills, shell mills, drills, lathe bits etc in my home shop.

torker
02-09-2006, 07:32 AM
I'm glad to see this forum and glad I ran into Mcgyver again!
I'm still collecting parts to build a simple end mill grinder (for the ends only) and will have some questions.
Thanks!
Russ

Mcgyver
02-09-2006, 08:04 AM
the same, good to see you on the cnc forum Russ

Donald
04-18-2006, 09:26 AM
I've been grinding tooling such as mills, drills, stepdrills, formtooling,lathe tooling, planer knives. Basically anything with an edge.
We have 2 new Ancas TX7+ (which we've named T-rex and Junior) and 3 500 series Walters ( named Larry, Curley and Moe). Along with many manual grinders.

This past week I've started drawing up some prints to make my own base and version of a #2 cincinatti including the ability to raise and lower the spindle along with machining the two wedges to till the spindle at different angles. and couple this with an air bearing, finger and 5C collets, then I'll be all set when that last .375 4flute gets dull at 3am saturday or sunday morning.

I'll enjoy thread
:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Well back to the grindstone. Good job sparky, your pretty sharp, just don't loose that edge. I see your back again Chip

lazlo
07-22-2006, 12:16 AM
This past week I've started drawing up some prints to make my own base and version of a #2 cincinatti including the ability to raise and lower the spindle along with machining the two wedges to till the spindle at different angles. and couple this with an air bearing, finger and 5C collets,

Hi Donald,

I was toying around with a CAD design of a similar idea -- a small universal T&C grinder built from scratch. My thought was to build a base and 18x6x1 1/2" table out of Durabar, and a central round-column for the grinder head, with an acme screw to raise/lower the head. Something along the lines of a Delta/Rockwell Toolmaker.

Were you planning on a round column, or square, for the grinder head?

Thanks,

Robert

Mcgyver
07-22-2006, 01:33 AM
Donald, for the reasons you mentioned + economics they are a great addition to the home shop - wish i done it earlier. But imo, just go buy one. you'll find a used one for less than the spindle bearings will cost and the air bearing's a freebe. cando diy is great, i'm there with ya, but a precision grinder, man that's uphill.

Now a guy like Robert, i don't know why he's even bothering with with the durabar, I bet he'd knock up something that'd holds tenths with a couple 'o Popsicle sticks. :D good to see you here Robert

lazlo
07-22-2006, 10:24 AM
Yeah, I deserved that Mcgyver :) I was over here looking for reviews of Alibre, and saw that Russ was trying to get in touch with me...


I bought one of these (used) last year.
If you don't mind me asking, about how much was it with the air bearing? Did you get it on Ebay?

My problem is two-fold: I don't have the space in my shop for a floor model, so the Taiwanese K.O. Lee clone you found would be perfect, but they seem to go for a lot, even without the air spindle, and the Harig/Weldon air spindles are $300 - $500, even in lousy condition.

As it turns out, I stumbled across a set of three high-speed CNC grinding heads in pristine condition, and they would make a superb head for a tool and cutter grinder.

So really I'm left with building a sturdy base and a spindle support mechanism. A heavy cast-iron table riding on linear guides would make a sweet table-top T&C grinder...

Mcgyver
07-22-2006, 01:33 PM
they were asking 1600 cdn at a machinery dealer, did a cash deal for 1200 with the air bearing, very few signs of use. I ended up meeting the guy who's shop it was from, they came to the conclusion that in a commercial environment, using it wasn't the best use of their time. I'd being toying with making a Quorn, but the costs fob my shop of the castings + years of work....started to think buying one was a better idea and then spotted the Chevalier at a dealer. Those heads sound nice, sounds like the expensive parts are taken care of! does the head include all the angular adustments? if so, maybe start with a burned out surface grinder as a platform, it'll have the xyz motion - oops guess that doesn't solve the space issue

Donald, I probably shot from the hip a bit on my earlier post, sorry but it was late. there have been many very fine t&c grinders made at home. The Quorn for example (worth having a good look at if you want to make a homemade machine) is a time tested and versatile design. It's build is long and complex and while great for the home shop it's performance is a fraction of a Cinci #2 with an air spindle. If that's the performance you are after, I'd bet you'd have a hard time getting there without spending a huge amount of money and time when a good used ones are, what 2500-5000? (just a guess, maybe less).

current puzzle is how to construct a dust extraction system for it

lazlo
07-25-2006, 12:56 PM
they were asking 1600 cdn at a machinery dealer, did a cash deal for 1200 with the air bearing, very few signs of use.That's a great deal with the air spindle. I was trying to avoid spending that much, but you're right -- by the time you add up all the parts for a home-designed T&C grinder (assuming labor is free, since it's a hobby), you're probably in the same price range anyway.


I'd being toying with making a Quorn, but the costs fob my shop of the castings + years of work....started to think buying one was a better idea and then spotted the Chevalier at a dealer.I'm not a big fan of the Quorn. Professor Chaddock designed it to be made on the Myford lathe, so it has some strange design elements, like using round rods instead of dovetail ways. I also don't know what he was smoking when he chose a loose helix on the spindle shaft to raise/lower the head. Then there's the infamous dozen or so ball handles which makes setting up the Quorn "Like shaking hands with an octopus."

If you swing by the Yahoo Quorn-Owners group, there a British gentlemen there who designed and built a much improved Quorn that he calls the "Bonnell." His design addresses a lot of these issues, but still uses the round guide ways.

There's also another excellent home-shop T&C grinder kit called the "Stent" which uses dovetail ways -- it looks a lot like a miniature K.O. Lee, but the UK distributor (Blackgates Engineering) charges around $240 for shipping to the US.


Those heads sound nice, sounds like the expensive parts are taken care of! does the head include all the angular adjustments? Yep. They were grinder heads intended for a precision CNC grinder. They weigh around 20 lbs each, and have massive duplex angular contact bearings up front, a large double-grove radial bearing in the back, and preload adjustment via jam nuts. All the external hardware, including the belt drive, is Browning. Very high quality.

The only down-side is that the heads came with an air chuck that was removed before I got to them, so I need to come up with a mounting system for the grinding wheel arbor. No big deal.

I just stumbled across a K.O. Lee 982 air spindle for a song on Ebay, so I think I'm officially committed to building my own T&C design :)


The Quorn for example (worth having a good look at if you want to make a homemade machine) is a time tested and versatile design. It's build is long and complex and while great for the home shop it's performance is a fraction of a Cinci #2 with an air spindle. The Quorn is definitely capable of most (all?) of the grinding/sharpening tasks you could think of for a home shop. But there's a long-standing joke on rec.crafts.metalworking: you never see a used Quorn. It's either in pieces, or it's on display inside a glass case. :)


current puzzle is how to construct a dust extraction system for it I was thining of cobbling something together with one of those small cannister Shop Vacs...

Cheers,

Robert

lakeside
07-25-2006, 01:23 PM
I was thining of cobbling something together with one of those small cannister Shop Vacs...Cheers,Robert

2" pvc pipe down from ceiling to flex hose from a shop vac will work fine.Sometime you can find this type of equipment used.

lazlo
07-26-2006, 02:24 PM
I was thinking of putting a small cannister vac underneath the grinding stand.

lakeside
07-26-2006, 02:30 PM
you may want to locate vac of to side. If you put it under the grinder metalic dust can short motor out.

Mcgyver
07-26-2006, 03:46 PM
I was thining of cobbling something together with one of those small cannister Shop Vacs...


the concern i have is does the shop vac actually filter out the nasty bits. I'm thinking it's the same as with low cost woodworking dust collection not vented outside; they avoiding sweeping up but don't remove the small dust particles that do the health damage.

I was thinking some sort of centrifugal blower hooked up to pvc pipe and vented outside as grinding is done infrequently. The again the shop vac idea vented outside might be fine. I can live with the heating inefficiencies for the occasional times that I'm grinding, (wonder if blowing this material over your backyard would create an environmental liability?) Not sure if centrifugal blowers have to be expensive or even if a squirrel cage blower would work.

You're right about the Quorn's under glass, seems almost like a rite of passage in some circles and I've never made a ball handle, prefer tommy bars (think that's what they are).....still infinitely better than nothing and can be made at home. I'd forgotten about the Stent, a good option. Nothing I have is under glass, but confess that making engines is probably just an excuse for making tools :D

lazlo
07-26-2006, 08:08 PM
If you put it under the grinder metalic dust can short motor out.

Very good point!

lazlo
07-26-2006, 08:12 PM
the concern i have is does the shop vac actually filter out the nasty bits. I'm thinking it's the same as with low cost woodworking dust collection not vented outside; they avoiding sweeping up but don't remove the small dust particles that do the health damage.

I use a Shop Vac to clean up all the swarf, oil, coolant, and grit in my shop, and it works great. If you're really concerned about the dust, you can buy HEPA filters for the Shop Vac.


I confess that making engines is probably just an excuse for making tools :D

Absolutely! :p

brainlessme
04-29-2007, 03:03 AM
hey i need some help trying to grind taps....are u still around??

wjfiles
04-29-2007, 10:18 AM
This may be of interest. I am making one for myself.
I am casting the major parts in Ali.
www.lautard.com/tinker.htm
WJF

sourkraut
05-22-2007, 09:54 AM
Hi, my first post,
I have been reading myself stupid for the past couple weeks on everything from 3d cad software to cnc machines and then the chance to connect them all together.
I am adding this post here because my end result would be to grind a thermal friction drill on an OLD Englhardt machine with a three axis table and then the tool holder axis.
My main question is if Mach is intended for mass production or if each program is meant to only be used once. This will allow me to redirect my time to research other areas if the answer is one time use.
question 2: Has anyone really gone the whole way from a 3d cad model to the real thing? and how many years of their life did they loose doing it?
sorry for the sarcasm but there are a few big names in 3d software out there promoting it but as soon as you ask they run and hide. Especial a particular company that has acquired a math program lately and claims that you can control your 3d part via math equations, but again they don't want to answer your questions before you by the license.
Thanks for your help in advance

Switcher
05-22-2007, 10:41 AM
Hi, my first post,
I have been reading myself stupid for the past couple weeks on everything from 3d cad software to cnc machines and then the chance to connect them all together.
I am adding this post here because my end result would be to grind a thermal friction drill on an OLD Englhardt machine with a three axis table and then the tool holder axis.
My main question is if Mach is intended for mass production or if each program is meant to only be used once. This will allow me to redirect my time to research other areas if the answer is one time use.
question 2: Has anyone really gone the whole way from a 3d cad model to the real thing? and how many years of their life did they loose doing it?
sorry for the sarcasm but there are a few big names in 3d software out there promoting it but as soon as you ask they run and hide. Especial a particular company that has acquired a math program lately and claims that you can control your 3d part via math equations, but again they don't want to answer your questions before you by the license.
Thanks for your help in advance


Thats the whole point of cnc, is to be able to run repetitive task. :)

A G-code file, is just a simple text file, you can run the same file one time, or one million times.

Mach can handle the repetitive task, so I think your answer is, Yes, Mach is intended for mass production.

I think the best question would be, can your Englhardt machine hold size? :)



.

chipsinpan
11-25-2007, 10:44 PM
I am a self taught tool grinder , and doing just a fair job for my shop only .
Have an old G&L plus an air bearing I modified myself. 5C spin jigs , planer knive jigs .
I manage to keep my reamer ends sharp , and do a few mill ends . Been doing this for 25 years , and always eager to pick up techniques. Nobody seems to have ever published a decent book on tool grinding . Let me know if you have any suggestions . I buy up any old books I see that have chapters on grinding . I always kept a 3 ring binder full of sketches of set ups that worked out , and thanks to digital cameras , lots of photos too.

pvromano
04-07-2008, 07:39 AM
Hi, this is my first post hear. I have been a machinist for about 40 years
and tool grinding for the last 15, I started running a Junger 460,10 years ago
and i experiment with a lot of odd cutters. I screwed up on one and hit the wrong button and lost my probing program. Does anyone know how to reinstall the probe program. Help.

lkenney
09-24-2008, 09:35 AM
First post in this forum, I have a small CNC shop that is doing more and more gun work. Chamber reamers are expensive and sometimes hard to get in a timely manner. I am thinking of setting up to grind our own. Do any of you grind rifle chamber reamers, which tools do you prefer?

Thank you
Eagle

zoeper
12-20-2008, 10:25 AM
Eagle,

I would be most interested to see what you come up with! I would imagine that you would need at least 4 axis to do the type of work you are considering. Do you want to build the grinder yourself or are you buying/ buying and retrofitting?

Depending on the quantities and frequency it might be more cost effective to outsource the grinding to a local grinding shop. (unless you're only in it to justify making your own tools : )
P

lkenney
12-20-2008, 10:38 AM
Trying to get the local grinding shops to grind our reamers is what is driving us to set up our own grinder. We have tried most of the shops within 75 miles. Most do a fair to good job but we are the bottom of the list when Boeing brings in a truck load of stuff to be ground. I understand but can't build a business on that kind of support. To set up for a custom wildcat takes at least 3 reamers, Chamber, Sizing and seating, at $150-$175 per reamer it takes a fair amount of business to pay those off. Some sell and some don't so you can wrap up a lot of money quickly. We are also rural so just getting up to the grind shops in Kent and Alburn takes a 1/2 day out of your work schedule. Trying to explain what we want with drawings and phone does not always work.

Eagle.

ikaplan815
03-14-2009, 10:04 AM
I missed the first post. Being very familiar with Boeing's carbide and PCD round tools, I may have a solution.

Cuttermaster
05-30-2009, 02:28 PM
Good day all , I am in the process of designing some new equipment for sharpening end mills and drills , anyone interested in offering a opinion on some things , id like to share some ideas

thanks
Jeff

Big Sky
03-21-2010, 08:59 PM
First post on this forum and happy I found you all. I purchased a Cuttermaster end mill grinder (new). I'm a 30 year machinist and have questions on some of the finer points of end mill regrinding. The info supplied with the machine leaves a lot to figure out on your own. I'm hoping someone out there has this type of grinder and can answer a few questions.

priestwood
07-11-2010, 05:25 PM
i am a furniture manufacturer based in nigeria. i bought a good number of 6mm compression bits for cutting laminated particle boards on our cnc machine. the bits are all breaking before they die out. can someone please tell me the best speed and rotation to cut 18mm laminated particle boards. we do alot of nesting in our company.

priestwood

cb1
07-12-2010, 09:21 AM
what are your current feed/speeds?
have you ever used the dust free nesting system from FS Tool?

priestwood
07-13-2010, 05:55 PM
thank you for your reply. my cutting speed is 9500mm/minute. i have never used the dust free nesting system you mentioned but i am willing to try it if i get properly educated about it.

regards,

priestwood

cb1
07-13-2010, 06:17 PM
what is your spindle rpm? and depth of cut?
check it out www.fstoolcorp.com dust free nesting

priestwood
07-13-2010, 07:25 PM
my rotation per minute is 18000RPM and dep of cut is 19mm

priestwood

cb1
07-14-2010, 11:16 AM
try increasing your feed to 15,000mm/min
i think a good range for 18,000rpms would be 600-800in/min.

priestwood
07-15-2010, 02:58 AM
thank you for your reply. Will try 15000 mm/minute at work today.

Will get back to you immediately i try it out.

Regards
priestwood

cb1
07-23-2010, 07:34 PM
Any updates??