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bevins
01-02-2017, 08:47 PM
Hi all,

I just purchased a Biesse Rover 346 with intents of retrofitting with Linuxcnc.

I plan on using mesa cards:
5i25, 7i77, 7i74, 7i70 and 2X 7i71.

I have the machine in my shop and mapping out all the I/O's.
Waiting on connectors to connect 600V to the machine.

See some pics below:

Zorbit
01-05-2017, 07:26 PM
That's a beast ! What are you planning to use it for ?

Is the original controller broken ? Or are you having trouble getting code to drive it ?

bevins
01-05-2017, 07:30 PM
The original controller is not broken, in fact the prior owner ran some gcode on it.

I dont want to try or even think about operating that antequated controller. Going to take the time and retrofit it and get busy making sawdust.

We have a wood shop with a 4x4 cnc i made to do all our stuff and we need a 4x8 cause we are turning down jobs cause we dont have the machine for it. We are a small shop of 3.

Zorbit
01-05-2017, 07:47 PM
I understand about old controllers, they can be real pain.

Good luck with your conversion, I'll be watching with interest.

bevins
01-26-2017, 05:51 AM
I have the machine powered up and running on the old control. Everything seems to be working even the vaccuum pump.

I have installed LinuxCNC and mounted by Mesa cards for the retrofit. The boards are powered talking to LinuxCNC and that part is working now also.
I have to find the offsets for all the tools before I start cutting and transfering on Linuxcnc. Below are some pics.

In the meantime my bandsaw bearings bit the duwst so I have that all apart, and I have a job today so, today will not be a fun day....

bevins
01-26-2017, 05:55 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAMZv5Nob00

bevins
01-26-2017, 05:56 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nONrWzbRDtA

bevins
01-26-2017, 06:03 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr5ciOfkwJA

bevins
01-31-2017, 11:54 PM
Figure out the startup relay logic and starting to transfer wires.

Alot of relays. 110 relays. Good thing I can reuse the existing relays with all the wiring intact.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuuXsTjX56w&feature=youtu.be

bevins
02-19-2017, 07:12 PM
Most of the retrofit is done. Will post some more pics during the process and schematics when I am finished with them.

All that is left is the Automatic Tool Changer. Everything else is working......

Dahlberg
02-20-2017, 03:39 AM
That looks fantastic, good job. that is exactly what I want to do. my machine is from 1996, it looks pretty much like yours. I will pm. you soon :-)

Colin

battwell
02-20-2017, 05:13 AM
biesse have great frames. ive converted 2 to mach3. programming the drilling in an easy to use way was the most fun!
here is mine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyAp6SNzSE0&t=14s

Dahlberg
02-20-2017, 07:01 AM
biesse have great frames. ive converted 2 to mach3. programming the drilling in an easy to use way was the most fun!
here is mine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyAp6SNzSE0&t=14s

That is very nice work to Battwell, maybe you can help me out with my convertion. I allready run Mach3, so I would like to convert it to a Mach3 or 4 machine as I allready know the program.
Here is my machine.

Colin

battwell
02-20-2017, 07:14 AM
if i was doing another one- id convert it using uccnc software.
i have analogue control working via a galil controller.
uccnc has a much better and more accurate motion planner than mach3.
i use it on my other big machines.
couldnt do this with mach 3 in cv mode.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJmcugyW8xM

Dahlberg
02-20-2017, 10:47 AM
battwell I think I will go uccnc! it looks very versatile.
What options do I have regarding motion controller??

Stepping3D
02-20-2017, 12:44 PM
This is a great thread, good job on the conversion!! ;)

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

bevins
02-20-2017, 04:48 PM
I do not know the UCCNC or whatever that controller is...lol, I use Linuxcnc and it is working amazing. Took me three weeks about to convert and 1000.00 worth of hardware.

I am cutting my first job o it tomorrow. I have the Automatic tool changer left to do. All the other drills vert horiz had no problem with. I am building my plc program in Linuxcnc almost done for the tool changer.

this is not a very complicated retrofit. There is alot to it but not that much. Just alot of inputs and more outputs. Even got my zones worked out with the green buttons and the safety sensors... It was a fun one to do.
I am doing some detailed calibration on the axis.

The Yawasaki drives are amazing and buiklt like tanks. Easy to interface with Linuxcnc, that was the easiest part. The Inverter for the spindles was pretty easy also. The worst part was figuring out the startup logic.
After that it was a piece of cake. Could probably do the next one in two weeks or so.

You will have fun if you choose a capable controller.

Oh yeah, I have to do my button panel also.

bevins
02-21-2017, 12:48 AM
Cut my first pieces on the BS 346. Wow what a machine. I was 64th inch off @110" will regulate that tomorrow. Just a matter of scale for that axis.

Now, to do the ATC....

bevins
02-23-2017, 07:30 AM
First job completed on the new machine. The machine is not finished yet but couldnt say no to this little contract.

Machine ran real nice and smooth. More accurate than i can measure. I quoted 5.5 hours and the machine finished the job in 2 hours. The cut was in hdpe 1.5" thick and the finish was amazing....

Attached a photo. How do i place inline?

lbtrs
03-23-2017, 06:24 PM
I recently got a similar machine, a Biesse Rover 342, and already hate the built in control. Will probably also convert to LinuxCNC. Not quite sure how to handle all the spindles and stuff though.

bevins
03-23-2017, 07:14 PM
I recently got a similar machine, a Biesse Rover 342, and already hate the built in control. Will probably also convert to LinuxCNC. Not quite sure how to handle all the spindles and stuff though.

I had the majority of the machine converted to linuxcnc in about3.5 weeks. I am working on a toolchanger scheme with spindle selection. It is 75% completed. Not that hard. Have to remap Tn M6 through python, and voila. Will upload video when completed. That and a button panel to finish, but I am cutting contracts on it already.

Not that hard to do.

bramvh
03-27-2017, 08:38 AM
I recently got a similar machine, a Biesse Rover 342, and already hate the built in control. Will probably also convert to LinuxCNC. Not quite sure how to handle all the spindles and stuff though.

Hi, I got the same machine, a Biesse rover 342, but the controller was broken, it never ran in my shop, so I 'm in the process of retrofitting (taking it apart and seeing what we have to deal with). This machine is +25 years of age and not much can be found online of the components used. one of the "bigger deal" components I cant find anything on are the encoders used on the servo's they are hohner H3393 (I may have to swap them out)

once you start your conversion let me know, I may have some tips for you

bevins
03-27-2017, 08:51 AM
Hi, I got the same machine, a Biesse rover 342, but the controller was broken, it never ran in my shop, so I 'm in the process of retrofitting (taking it apart and seeing what we have to deal with). This machine is +25 years of age and not much can be found online of the components used. one of the "bigger deal" components I cant find anything on are the encoders used on the servo's they are hohner H3393 (I may have to swap them out)

once you start your conversion let me know, I may have some tips for you

He is going to use Linuxcnc, no need to change out encoders. They work fine, The drive gets the encoders, then output to Linuxcnc. I did one of these machines and had no issues.

bramvh
03-27-2017, 09:06 AM
He is going to use Linuxcnc, no need to change out encoders. They work fine, The drive gets the encoders, then output to Linuxcnc. I did one of these machines and had no issues.

I am also going to use Linuxcnc with Mesa cards, on my machine the servo drives get feedback from the motors via hall effect, and the hohner encoder on the motors goes directly to the controller it doesn't go to the drive, there are 2 types of feedback from the servo motor one goes to the drive the other one goes to the controller, the controller sends an analog signal to the drive

bevins
03-27-2017, 09:17 AM
I am also going to use Linuxcnc with Mesa cards, on my machine the servo drives get feedback from the motors via hall effect, and the hohner encoder on the motors goes directly to the controller it doesn't go to the drive, there are 2 types of feedback from the servo motor one goes to the drive the other one goes to the controller, the controller sends an analog signal to the drive

I allready did mine and all motor wiring goes to the drives. There is no encoders on mine going directly to the controller. From the Yaskawa drives, it went to the controller. I removed them and connected them to the 7i77. It is an output out of the yaskawa drives.

Mine is using Yaskawa drives. It is a 1995. Maybe on yours it might be but I havent seen it. What year is yours?

EDIT

Sorry, mine is a Biesse 346, not the same machine....

/EDIT

bramvh
03-27-2017, 09:24 AM
I allready did mine and all motor wiring goes to the drives. There is no encoders going directly to the controller.

Mine is using Yaskawa drives. It is a 1995. Maybe on yours it might be but I havent seen it. What year is yours?

the machine is from 1991, and uses GEC ALSTHOM drives from PARVEX type CMS2 attached is a photo, to my knowledge all 342 machines uses these types of drives, the 346 machines have other drives and motors

356458

lbtrs
04-07-2017, 08:33 AM
My machine also hast GEC ALSTHOM PARVEX drives + motors, it seems the drives get feedback via separate resolver, and the NC controller gets position via Hohner optical incremental encoders. Didn't find anything about them either, nevertheless, it should work in principle, encoder has sticker with pinout / how the cable is used. I'm not sure what voltage they run on or what kind of signal they deliver.

Inspecting the NC axis control board, i found some AM26LV32 chips, so it would not surprise me if encoder signaling was rs-422 levels, two phases with index (A+/-, B+/-, O+/-). Will check with oscilloscope before doing anything stupid.

Encoder on 4th axis seems to be damaged. Zeroing C-Axis in original CNI controller spins forever...

For interfacing the inputs and outputs (relay-boards) I designed some custom PCBs to connect the CNI breakout-boards to the mesa cards, PCBs should arrive in 2 weeks, will post update if and when it works out ;)

bramvh
04-07-2017, 09:46 AM
Hi,

Seems like you have some advantage over me :) I do not have a working controller, nor do I have stickers on the encoders so I don't know what cable does what, but you are right, they do seem to be differential signal, I haven't worked out the voltage they run on either.
Could you share some pictures or maybe do some measurement on the voltage going to the encoder?

Maybe we should create a new topic for our conversion, but I don't know where to put that.

Best regards,
Bram

lbtrs
04-07-2017, 10:27 AM
I have the schematics nearly completed, the NC and some E-Stop stuff are the last missing parts. Will put it on github or something when ready.

Voltage- and other measurements are planned for next week, also have to figure out how to do a tool change with the CNI controller to take notes what has to be activated where and when...

lbtrs
04-07-2017, 10:47 AM
Some pictures of the Y-axis encoder and where the cables are connected.

bramvh
04-07-2017, 11:26 AM
Thanks for that,

unfortunately the color codes do not match real life for me, and the type of encoder is slightly different mine has no 0 at the end,
the picture of the connections is for the Hall effect sensors they go to the drive, the encoder cables go directly to the NC

lbtrs
04-07-2017, 01:31 PM
Thanks for that,

unfortunately the color codes do not match real life for me, and the type of encoder is slightly different mine has no 0 at the end,
the picture of the connections is for the Hall effect sensors they go to the drive, the encoder cables go directly to the NC

yeah, thats possible. Did not trace the cables. The machine is very dusty, the cabinet needs another round of vacuuming.

The habit of running cables through the cabinet to the NC and the drives is somewhat nasty. Makes it nearly impossible to disconnect the whole cabinet.

lbtrs
04-10-2017, 01:11 PM
pinout of the CNI axis controller is:

First axis encoder: 18Z, 18D: A', A; 16Z, 16D: B', B; 14Z, 14D: Z, Z', colors are green/orange, gray/yellow and white/red. second axis encoder is 12Z-8D, third axis 6Z-2D.

Output to servo drives is on 32D/Z resp. 30D/Z resp. 38D/Z, supply for encoders is 20D, 22D (both +12V) and 20Z/22Z (GND).
Pinout is written on male connector (the one on the card), first row up is 32, then 30 and so on, columns are Z (leftmost), B, D.

Voltages on encoder lines is +12V/0V resp. inverse.

Hope this helps.

bramvh
04-11-2017, 05:21 AM
Thanks that is extremely helpful

I received my mesa cards yesterday, I will probably be installing them this week, I am going for a 5i25 + 7i77 + 7i74 and on the 7i74: 7i70 + 2x7i71 + 7i73 + 7i83
so from your post I understand that:
A' = green
A = orange
B' = gray
B = yellow
Z' = white
Z = red
GND = black
+12V = blue

358344
358346

lbtrs
04-11-2017, 06:08 AM
from your post I understand that...

This information is from the schematics. I checked only the A-channel of the Z-axis with the oscilloscope, but pinout, cable colors etc... is consistent with the other axis and makes sense.

My setup will be one 7i90 with SPI, one 7i44 and one 7i48, and a bunch of 7i90s with smart serial for I/O. Controller will be a RaspberryPi 3 (most probably). Received the cards yesterday, currently fighting the firmware.

sting007
11-20-2017, 08:45 PM
Hi all,

I just purchased a Biesse Rover 346 with intents of retrofitting with Linuxcnc.

I plan on using mesa cards:
5i25, 7i77, 7i74, 7i70 and 2X 7i71.

I have the machine in my shop and mapping out all the I/O's.
Waiting on connectors to connect 600V to the machine.

See some pics below:

Hi,
I have same machine type and need to retrofit it but i do not have the wiring for it, could you provide it
Sting

bevins
11-21-2017, 08:01 AM
Hi,
I have same machine type and need to retrofit it but i do not have the wiring for it, could you provide it
Sting

I'll see what I can do. I will have to scan the manual.

Where are you located BTW and what year is your machine? Does it have rs485 relay modules or not?

NIC 77
11-21-2017, 11:41 AM
I am using the spindle from a Biesse Rover on a DIY build.

I'd also seriously appreciate any documentation, but in my case, specifically about the spindle wiring. I still haven't figured out what the pins are for and what the working pressures for the tool change, which port does what, etc.

379240

379242