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View Full Version : Large ATC Spindle for X Zero Demon



Andrew22
07-08-2016, 12:52 PM
I'm planning on purchasing one of the new Demon routers and wanted to get some thoughts on spindles. I've looked at some expensive options from Techno and HSD, and I'm also looking at some Chinese HSD clones. Assuming the quality is acceptable, they are looking like a good deal. The most suitable options look to be either 2.2Kw or 5.5Kw spindle. The former is around 25Kg and there's only a 1-2 Kg difference for the 5.5 Kw in exchange for twice the power. My philosophy for tools is that you'll never regret having a more powerful or capable machine, which is why I'm leaning towards a larger spindle with ATC instead of a smaller spindle with an ER20 collet or just using my PC router.

Does anyone have experience with these Chinese ATC spindles? I know it won't be as good as a genuine HSD, however I'm not planning on running the spindle all day every day.

My other concern is mounting a spindle like this on the Demon. While Georges machines are quite substantial, there are laws of physics that are going to come into play moving a large spindle like this around. I'm planning on using the Leadshine closed loop stepper motors which should have more than enough power to move even a heavy spindle like this, but I'm not sure what adverse effects will come from sudden accelerations and deceleration. How fast could I push this machine with a big spindle before it skips steps, or shakes the whole machine? Would I see a benefit of upgrading to servos? Also, I wouldn't want to create cutter issues if I couldn't keep my feed rates high enough. I plan on using this machine for cutting aluminum as well as wood and plastics, so I want to take extra care to make sure this machine runs as smooth as possible.

da40flyer
07-15-2016, 05:42 PM
Hi Andrew:
I have a new Raptor that I recently built. I am using a Tekno ElectroSpindel C41/47-D-DB-P-ER25-1.8KW. I believe this spindle weighs 9kg. I could not even imagine trying to use a spindle almost 3x as heavy on this frame. Even with the frame bolted to a heavy table/base (mine weighing about 300lbs).

Mine does not have an ATC as you are interested... it has an ER20 setup. I am not sure what is available in this size/power with an ATC.

I believe this spindle power is perfect for the XZero frame to cut aluminum. You can see some of my videos cutting aluminum on the other threads here. The other reason I went with the Tekno is that it is air cooled, and has dual bearings. The Tekno is definitely worth the additional cost over the Chinese models.

KMD
07-31-2016, 09:15 PM
I'm planning on purchasing one of the new Demon routers and wanted to get some thoughts on spindles. I've looked at some expensive options from Techno and HSD, and I'm also looking at some Chinese HSD clones. Assuming the quality is acceptable, they are looking like a good deal. The most suitable options look to be either 2.2Kw or 5.5Kw spindle. The former is around 25Kg and there's only a 1-2 Kg difference for the 5.5 Kw in exchange for twice the power. My philosophy for tools is that you'll never regret having a more powerful or capable machine, which is why I'm leaning towards a larger spindle with ATC instead of a smaller spindle with an ER20 collet or just using my PC router.

Does anyone have experience with these Chinese ATC spindles? I know it won't be as good as a genuine HSD, however I'm not planning on running the spindle all day every day.

My other concern is mounting a spindle like this on the Demon. While Georges machines are quite substantial, there are laws of physics that are going to come into play moving a large spindle like this around. I'm planning on using the Leadshine closed loop stepper motors which should have more than enough power to move even a heavy spindle like this, but I'm not sure what adverse effects will come from sudden accelerations and deceleration. How fast could I push this machine with a big spindle before it skips steps, or shakes the whole machine? Would I see a benefit of upgrading to servos? Also, I wouldn't want to create cutter issues if I couldn't keep my feed rates high enough. I plan on using this machine for cutting aluminum as well as wood and plastics, so I want to take extra care to make sure this machine runs as smooth as possible.

I have been running a 2.2 techno spindle of .375 compression bits cutting .625 melamine at 400 inchs per minute 12000 rpm and getting great results spending the extra money on the spindle you will never regret. I have a friend's with hsd and fine China spindle that have replaced them with the same use as mine
The only cutter I had trouble with was a 4 inch surfaceing bit it stalled the spindle and the closed loop easy servos just dragged it through the mdf spoil board
If you go with the techno spindle get the damen cnc mount has keys to index the mount much better than useing the little bolts
If your interested in have my demon for sale up graded to a 4 x8 machine if my shop was bigger it would still be running

Kirk

Andrew22
08-02-2016, 12:49 PM
That's good to know the 2.2Kw can handle those speeds. After lots of research my conclusion is that an ATC spindle can wait, and the larger ones are going to be too heavy for this machine. If I get lucky finding a smaller, lighter, high quality ATC spindle at auction or ebay then I'll consider it. For now I think it's best to start with a Tekno spindle or something similar in the 2Kw range and learn how far I can push the machine before I make things more complicated.

islaww
08-02-2016, 06:27 PM
Another option: 3hp ATC Spindle for sale (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?245349-3hp-ATC-Spindle-for-sale)

gio666
08-04-2016, 10:57 AM
Another option: []

I have read of lots of people are not having much luck with getting those to work . I know one person in Canada bought one and returned it the first day.

gio666
08-04-2016, 10:58 AM
You wont find a better deal than a tekno spindle.

Andrew22
08-04-2016, 07:06 PM
Another option: 3hp ATC Spindle for sale (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?245349-3hp-ATC-Spindle-for-sale)

Blurry customs does look pretty slick from the videos I've seen, although I'm a little wary of them after the issues I've heard people having. It's disappointing as I would really like to see a company like that doing well.

George, I've been talking to Kevin at DamenCNC and he's been very helpful. I'm hoping they'll be able to configure a spindle with a couple extras that would work well for my applications.

gio666
08-04-2016, 10:25 PM
Blurry customs does look pretty slick from the videos I've seen, although I'm a little wary of them after the issues I've heard people having. It's disappointing as I would really like to see a company like that doing well.

George, I've been talking to Kevin at DamenCNC and he's been very helpful. I'm hoping they'll be able to configure a spindle with a couple extras that would work well for my applications.

Yes you wont go wrong with Tekno tool changer from them.