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dmgdesigns
02-20-2004, 06:21 PM
Does anyone have any information about this company and/or thier machines?

www.shopsabre.com (http://www.shopsabre.com)

Thanks
Mark

ballendo
02-21-2004, 04:47 AM
Hello,

Looks like they've made only 2 machines... All pics are of the 7214, and the 3636.

The machines look decently designed, and the components used are also decent quality. The s/w has been used by other commercial machines (cnccrafter is one), and the package price is definitely fair.

I'd look into where the company "is at", and see if the feeling you get matches what you see. I'm betting that they've only built 2 machines. But those two look like they could be a good choice.

Hope this helps,

Ballendo

P.S. Ask 'em some technical questions, and see what they know...
Will they tell you how many they've built? If it's more than two, can you talk to the owners of the previously sold machines?

It's a WHOLE LOT easier to build a machine or two, and post "accessories" using the mfrs. published photos, to make your company look established and competent; than it is to build a sustained cnc machine building operation...

Note that I have NO idea what their reality is, I'm just going by my experience, having had a look at their website...

jlawren6
06-21-2004, 04:41 PM
Just wondering if there were any other comments or experience concerning this router.

I came across it as well and it looked interesting. Not too far from the Shopbot in cost/performance, but with what appears to be more solid construction and conventional control. Kinda surprised to see ballscrew drives on a 4'x8' router though. I'm still in the process of deciding if I want to build my own or buy a commercial unit and am learning as much as I can from this great site along the way.

Comment or critiques of the shop sabre design would be appreciated. Thanks.

dmgdesigns
06-21-2004, 06:32 PM
I contacted Mark Bombardo by phone and spoke for quite a while. I had decided to purchase the 48 X 48 machine. I ask him to email me a quote for the machine and options I wanted AND a couple of references. I explained I just wanted to talk to someone who was using the machine. That was 3/2/2004. I never heard from him. I called again about 3 weeks later and he said he would send the information I wanted. Well I have not received an email yet.

They do look like well build machines and to here Mark talk about them I would assume they are. I just can not let go of that much money with out checking it out first.

I gave up and decided to build. I bought big servos, ball screws, and rails and bearings. I am now in the process of changing the www.Data-Cut.com plans to fit the low cost rails and screws. May be I can get some pics on CNCZone before to long.

Give Mark a call and see what you think. Good luck!

jlawren6
06-21-2004, 10:42 PM
Thanks for the info. That does not sound real promising. I might give him a call to see if anything has changed. I kinda doubt it though.

I'll probably end up going to build route as well. Free time is so rare these days though that I'd really rather spend it learning CAM and and all that goes with cutting (feed rates, bit types, etc) rather than building then having to learn that anyway. Building would have it's advantages though.

I realize this is a DIY site, but I wish there was more info/comments/reviews of some of the low-cost commercial routers. Ones like the Shop Sabre, Shopbot, BMR, Practical CNC, and some of the Ebay routers (Fireup2k, etc.). Usually the only info you find on these are through their own websites. Not exactly the most independent reviews. It also be nice to have some detailed info on their hardware.

Surely some folks here could shed some light.... In the meantime, I'll keep digging and learning.

Thanks again.

RandMan
06-21-2004, 11:02 PM
I had a similar experience when I was checking out ShopSabre. I could not get a solid impression that they were real. Mark never supplied a single reference for me to speak with and I had to hound him to be a customer. Their spindle prices were very expensive and their limit switch option was totally rediculous. When I looked at the total package they were about 5% under a Techno which offered a bit more performance so I went with that. At least they are real and I can get parts if I need them.

GeorgeRudd
12-18-2004, 09:34 PM
Has anyone on this list purchased a ShopSabre?

I live in Minnneapolis (about 30 minutes from their shop) and I went to see a demo a few weeks ago. They had four machines in production while I was there and they seemed to be real company. I did not ask how many units they have sold.

I also had a hard time getting a reference via email but I finally talked to a guy that has one. He seemed to be pretty happy with his purchase but he had not used it a whole lot yet.

Their machines seemed well built and pretty heavy duty to me (with my limited exposure to these type of machines). In my opinion they seem to be a class above the ShopBot's that I have seen. I am considering buying a ShopSabre but I would really like to hear some feedback from someone more knowledgeable than myself, someone that can look at their specifications (weight, contstruction method, etc.) and give some feedback on what they think.

RandMan
12-18-2004, 10:46 PM
There's a used Thermwood on ebay (a dealer listing) for $13,500. 5x10' two 12HP spindles plus vacuum. A whole lot of router for the price. There's a used Techno on there too but they want too much for it IMO.

Suggest you get a quote from Shopsabre to figure out what the full price is. Being close to them would be a real plus. The cost of my Techno was almost the same as Shopsabre but I got an aluminum t-slot table with that versus their MDF table. Techno's support has been great the couple of times I needed something. I've got a 20+ page machine maintenance manual, a re-indicate manual, plus the machine and s/w manuals. Their slides have rubber dust/chip guards so I don't have to clean/lube every few hours of messy wood machining. See if you can get stuff like this from Shopsabre if you go that way. See if you can talk them into delivering and setting it up square for free since you are local. That would be worth something and cheap for them.

GeorgeRudd
12-19-2004, 11:51 AM
ShopSabre does offer an optional alluminum slot table but I am not sure what the up charge is for it, or what the advantage of having it would be. Do you use the slot table for clamping stuff down?

I also noticed that there is a lot of pretty heavy duty steel framing under the MDF waffle top that you don't see in the ShopSabre photos. How important is the amount of steal used in the legs? It seems like the ShopSabre has fairly heavy duty legs on the corners of their table but they do not have extra support legs in the center like I see on some of the more expensive machines.

RandMan
12-19-2004, 12:54 PM
My aluminum table is really nice because it doesn't change dimensionally with temperature and humidity. It is within a couple of thou in height max from anywhere on the table. I clamp fixtures made of MDF, aluminum or phenolic that hold my parts to the t-slot table. My small 2'x3' MDF fixtures warp and move every time I go to use them so I need to face them flat which is a pain. I would imagine a table top made of MDF would need to be faced flat if you need consistent depths but it's probably not as important for cutting through.

Heavy framing is a good thing if it makes the table more rigid. The last thing you want is the machine becoming slightly out of square when you make a heavy cut. My machine has enough torque to snap off a 1/4" bit in an instant and want more.

tltaylor
12-20-2004, 02:34 PM
I've talked to Mark a lot in the last few weeks. Seemed to be very eager to tell me anything I wanted to know about his machine. He called me back within half a day with a reference that he had already called to make sure it was alright that I contact. Out of all the companies that I have spoken to on the phone, Mark was the most informative and responsible. He has called me twice since we first talked. I have not bought one or gone to see the reference machine so take what i say with a grian of salt.

Trent

PaulT
02-07-2005, 09:01 PM
Hi All,

I have owned a Shopsabre 4896 for about 15 months now and I couldn't be happier with it. It's a rugged, well built machine. The ONLY problem I've had with it was a set screw coming loose on the Y axis Love-Joy coupling. It took me a minute to figure out why my Y screw quit turning, but it was a quick fix.

This is my first CNC router and now that I have a little experience with it, I wish I would have gotten at least a 5 HP spindle instead of opting for the 3 1/14 HP PC router. I can still do everything that a bigger spindle could do, I just can't do it as fast as I'd like to sometimes.

The RAMS software and the WinCNC software are a good combination and real easy to learn. I use CorelDraw for making drawings because I already had that and knew how to use it.

Shopsabre is a relatively new company and they've had some growing pains but I think they have their act together now. They offer a great machine at a good price.

If anyone has any questions I can help with, ask away.

Paul

tsafford
10-26-2005, 03:19 PM
Hello,

My comany just purchased a 4896 from Shop Sabre. It's funny that PaulT had the set screw problem on the Y axis. I had the same problem, only it took me two days to figure it out! All in all I am very pleased with the machine. We work our machine 8 hours a day. After two months we have had no problems. Feel free to send me a message if you have any specific questions.

George Sparr
11-19-2005, 07:55 PM
I'm looking at these 2 routers because Shop Bot could not hold the tolerances we need (+/-.005"). We need to cut flat carbon fiber laminates, approx. 3mm thick to size and drill / coutersink a numberof holes. Pretty basic cutting, no 3D. We are running about 25 to 30 plates per week so our volume is low but the cost to out source these parts is running about 30K per year. We feel it's time to bring this work in house. I'm also looking at ENROUTE to convert my customers dxf drawings to G-Codes to drive the router. I would appreciate any comments. I'm trying to purchase this router before the end of the year to get it on this years taxes.

Also, is there any advantage of ball screws vs rack & pinon? I was looking at a MultiCan but there price was over 56K for the 1000 series.

If you want you can call me at my office # 800 811-2009 (PST) if you hate to type like I do!

Thanks for your help.

behn
10-19-2006, 11:42 AM
Hi

I own the 4896 model. Running Rams 3D software and WinCNC controller to run the machine.

There is very little documentation and written help available. The manual for the product (RAMS) is pretty much non existent. But the tech support is pretty good. I have had some issues with the machine itself but Shop Sabre has been responsive and understanding.

What else do you want to know?

Behn

GeorgeRudd
10-19-2006, 11:52 AM
There is very little documentation and written help available. The manual for the product (RAMS) is pretty much non existent. But the tech support is pretty good.




I have been pretty happy with ArtCam. Their documentation and training videos are good. They sell ArtCam Insignia for less than $1000.

BensMillwork
06-18-2007, 09:01 AM
Hi All,

I have owned a Shopsabre 4896 for about 15 months now and I couldn't be happier with it. It's a rugged, well built machine. The ONLY problem I've had with it was a set screw coming loose on the Y axis Love-Joy coupling. It took me a minute to figure out why my Y screw quit turning, but it was a quick fix.

This is my first CNC router and now that I have a little experience with it, I wish I would have gotten at least a 5 HP spindle instead of opting for the 3 1/14 HP PC router. I can still do everything that a bigger spindle could do, I just can't do it as fast as I'd like to sometimes.

The RAMS software and the WinCNC software are a good combination and real easy to learn. I use CorelDraw for making drawings because I already had that and knew how to use it.

Shopsabre is a relatively new company and they've had some growing pains but I think they have their act together now. They offer a great machine at a good price.

If anyone has any questions I can help with, ask away.

Paul
I should get mine this week,Shopsabe in my opinion is the only company offering industrial rails ands ballscrews and a reasonable price.Don't bother with the online quote just call and ask for Mike Seegar he will get you a quote right out.
Ben

AutoDesigns
06-28-2007, 04:17 PM
I just purchased a Shop Sabre 4860 ATC/Servo all the options...Could not be happier!!! I have increased production and well its not always a good thing I have let 2 guys go ( a good thing for me) because this machine is like having 3 workers...If anyone has questions feel free to email me Keromonster@tmail.com

carbidecraters
07-25-2007, 11:31 PM
Why is it all of a sudden 1st posters are showing up to say how good the shop saber is and then not posting anymore? Sound like we have some tools here

GeorgeRudd
07-25-2007, 11:49 PM
Why is it all of a sudden 1st posters are showing up to say how good the shop saber is and then not posting anymore? Sound like we have some tools here

Don't you think that it is common for someone to join this forum shortly before or shortly after buying a new CNC machine? And don't you think that it is common from someone to tell others about their expreience with their new toy?

Also...a new post pushes an old thread back to the top of the list, making it more likely that others will see it and respond to the revived thread.

BensMillwork
07-26-2007, 07:28 AM
No conspircy,I just got my 4896 with toolchanger and 4 th axis and digtizer.And I,m very pleased,If I don't post for a while it's because I'm to busy reading all the software manuals.Shopsabre is the only company offering top of the line components and a fair price,IMHP.Techno did not have a machine with a ac digital servo's at least none in my range and admitted thatthat type of sevo was better.
Ben

AutoDesigns
08-10-2007, 05:50 PM
update...Had my machine for almost 2 months now still running strong took me about a week to get comfortable with visualmill but that is expected....and as far as first time posting sorry i dont meet qualifications to post on a CNC form.... carbidecraters...... I dont want to be a hypocrite and criticize another companys machine that i have never used...sorry this is only my second post but I have a company to run and dont have time to sit infront of my computer and put people and machines down that i know nothing about......

mudall
08-11-2007, 09:20 AM
Any more input from Techno owners? Have been to Shob bot & Techno for demos the difference is night & day. also priced Practical, EZ, Shop Sabre & Warthog. The only one that seemed close in quality was Shop Sabre, but the price was only 5k less. (5x10 Techno VS 72x14 Shop Sabre)

BensMillwork
08-11-2007, 03:38 PM
5 k is a good savings for a machine that perform as everbiy as good
Ben

It l's those auot tool cahngers that really hury ones wallet !

carbidecraters
08-11-2007, 03:53 PM
update...Had my machine for almost 2 months now still running strong took me about a week to get comfortable with visualmill but that is expected....and as far as first time posting sorry i dont meet qualifications to post on a CNC form.... carbidecraters...... I dont want to be a hypocrite and criticize another companys machine that i have never used...sorry this is only my second post but I have a company to run and dont have time to sit infront of my computer and put people and machines down that i know nothing about......


I havent run or seen a Shopsabre ever. I was commenting on the shady examples that were posted. I am still not convinced that Shop sabre isnt tooting their own horn here. Funny a customer would take this so personal. I wonder where you are located. Where are you located? Is it in the Twin City metro area and can I come and see your machine? The reason I ask is that I am looking for a machine like this but am burned out of some of these other plasma/router companies playing e-games with me and other customers.

BensMillwork
08-11-2007, 10:07 PM
Hello,I bought my shopsabre form Mike Seegar was the salesman.I did not have a problem getting a reference, within a day of asking I was given the name of a man in Frederick Maryland a, about 20 minute ride from me.I saw his machine,he was happy all looked good.I 'm surprised that some people were wondering is shopsabre was a real company ??.But I spoke to Techno and Shopsabre ,I had it narrowed down between those two.Techno did not convince me for the 5-10 k difference depending on the options that they were worth the extra cost.My sabre was delivered on time and no problems other than me learning a few things .I might mention the sabres had ac digital servo's that techno did not offer .After using their digitizer along with wincnc I found the digitizer was missing a key component in that you could not create a false z-bottom on the scan ,which made you do a build up around taller items so the probe would have something to touch.I talked to Jim at ,the owner of shopsabre.Two weeks later I received an email form Mike at wincnc the option for the z-false z-bottom was added it can now be doewnloaded ver 2.4 test.Now I don't know ,I'm new to the cnc world but that seems like pretty good service from a company, afew thought might not be real.
Ben

carbidecraters
08-11-2007, 10:16 PM
Ben I see you recieved your machine on 7-30-07 and on 8-4-07 you said you had the machine for 2 months and setup is a breeze. Ben when did you recieve your machine?

BensMillwork
08-11-2007, 10:43 PM
...lol....what is the cross-examination...I was giving dates off toping of my head.To be honest 7-30 can't be right maybe a typo I made the first payment 7-18 -08. I would have to look on the paper work to give you exact dates, maybe it's a only a little over a month...not sure without checking,I have looked a so many machines ,software packages ,that my brain is about shot at this point.So please do not take my dates as exact,but if you really want to know I can look it up.Anyway is there a point you wanted make.
Thanks,
Ben

carbidecraters
08-12-2007, 12:16 AM
...lol....what is the cross-examination...I was giving dates off toping of my head.To be honest 7-30 can't be right maybe a typo I made the first payment 7-18 -08. I would have to look on the paper work to give you exact dates, maybe it's a only a little over a month...not sure without checking,I have looked a so many machines ,software packages ,that my brain is about shot at this point.So please do not take my dates as exact,but if you really want to know I can look it up.Anyway is there a point you wanted make.
Thanks,
Ben

Hmmm I dont know why you would get defensive Ben. On 7-30-07 you said you got your machine and on 8-4-07 which is 5 days later you posted that you had the machine for 2 months. You also made sure to post how great your experience was and how you got a deal and then went into details how great Mike was and how this machine is better equipped than brand x. Besides your lack of grammar I smell something fishy here. Wouldnt be the first time multiple entities were used here to sell a machine.

I am done with this and am looking elsewhere for a router.:)

BensMillwork
08-12-2007, 08:20 AM
Well,I don't know what to say,other than I was excited about my purchace and wanted to tell other poeple who were going through the same troubles I was having,that is trying to find a good machine at a good price.I'm sorry if I offended you in any way.
Ben

BensMillwork
08-12-2007, 08:43 AM
Maybe I was wrong about what these forums are for and someone please correct if I'm wrong.When I first becamen intrested in cnc was impart due to buying a little carvewright machine,I was amazed at what it could do ,although it suffered from a few mechanical problem ,all of which I was able to fix myself.But anyway,that is what got me started.I turned to cnczone for information on new machines and finally after digging through old post I found a few,but for the most part I had to do my own research and makes alot of calls talking to router companies.I finally decide place my order and get my machine.It was a good experiences.So I decide I would post it on here And apparently due to my detail of the transaction and my poor grammer,some of you think I'm from shopsabre....Wow.During a seach through thids forum I read of a man who visted several cnc manufatures and he said after looking at all of them he was most impressed with ss and that when they were built out of a garage.Was this post a shopsabre mole.I doubt it.I guess it is just a sign of the times when...when we get to that everyone is suspicious of everything even a simple post about a product review.......sorry I bothered to try and help

mudall
08-12-2007, 10:13 AM
Ben, this is the type of input I was hoping to get from this forum. I appreciate it. Still hoping to hear from Techno owners as well

BensMillwork
08-13-2007, 11:20 AM
Thank you...!! yes by all means as I said in a earlier post Techno is a good machine.I was simply describing my adventure in dealing with both companies.
Ben

tmfcwp
12-16-2007, 10:35 PM
I have two Techno CNC Routers.
A 48x96 and a newer 59x120.
I thought the extra money was well worth spending.
For one, I got a stand, table and plug in machine. I guess thats for three!
I will buy a third Techon this year. Good Stuff Techno sells!

mudall
12-19-2007, 07:21 PM
Appreciate the reply, I have decided on the techno, probably LCX 59120 w/vacuum table & 3 tool changer just starting up my own business will be going for a second demo in Jan. What software are you running? What are you producing? Any other input you can give me would be appreciated.

tmfcwp
12-20-2007, 09:12 AM
Hi Mudall,
We make a variety of products for our customers. From plywood parts to custom cabinet components, to retail items that are sold around the world.
We have a 4896 LC and just got a second machine, a 59120 LC.
They both perform exactly as advertised!
We don't have vacuum tables or tool changers and didn't need all the extra stuff the LCX offers.
We just needed a bare bones accurate machine and for the cost, Techno was our obvious choice!
We bolt a sheet of MDF to the router table, and use drywall screws to hold the sheets in place while cutting so no vacuum is needed.
The vacuum table and tool changer options although good deals were both out of reach money wise for us. We also don't have 3 phase power out here in the sticks, so that would have been another cost for a phase converter.
We used to use Bob-Cad for all of our product, but recently had a major problem with our post processor, and they couldn't be bothered to help us.
7 full days to return our tech help call!!! Too busy selling to more victims!!!
We now use Enroute 3d Pro. It is not as easy to draw in as Bob-Cad, but it works every time!!! Hope this helps. When you call Techno, ask for Tim, and tell them Tom Farmer recomended you call. They will know who I am.
Good luck to your business..

Denny J
12-24-2007, 02:11 PM
I was just at the ShopSabre facility Friday on my way through to Wisconsin. They took me to the back and let me see the new ball screw setup they are putting on the machines now. When I was up there a few months ago they were using about a 3/4 inch(eyeballing it) screw that turned with the nut being stationary.

They switched to a much heavier screw(1" or more by eyeballing it) and now they are driving the nut while the screw stays stationary.

They said they went from 600IMP to 1200 with this change.

tmfcwp
12-24-2007, 03:33 PM
Hi Denny,
The tour of ShopSabre sounds like fun!
Its interesting that you saw the screw so much. Don't forget that every spec of dust you make will also see the screws.
On the Techno machines that we have, The screws are hidden inside a pretty much sealed aluminum housing and they stay very clean, therefore very lubricated for a long time!
I still think the Technos are way ahead of most others!
P.S., ask them to actually cut something for you at 600IPM, let alone 1200IPM.Those numbers sound great in catalogs, but in the real world of wood, 200IPM is pushing it!! Just a thought! Merry Christmas!

ger21
12-24-2007, 03:39 PM
P.S., ask them to actually cut something for you at 600IPM, let alone 1200IPM.Those numbers sound great in catalogs, but in the real world of wood, 200IPM is pushing it!!

Not using a ShopSabre, but on our machine we've cut wood at 400ipm every day for almost 10 years now. Most new high end machines will easily cut over 1000ipm with no problems. Guys with $1500 homebuilt mdf machines are cutting close to 200ipm now.

tmfcwp
12-24-2007, 10:20 PM
Gerry,
Every day for 10 years huh?
Whatever!

ger21
12-25-2007, 01:16 AM
About 9-1/2. We bought it in 1998. OK, not every day. Only 5 days a week.

Denny J
12-25-2007, 09:08 PM
Hi Mudall,
We make a variety of products for our customers. From plywood parts to custom cabinet components, to retail items that are sold around the world.
We have a 4896 LC and just got a second machine, a 59120 LC.
They both perform exactly as advertised!
We don't have vacuum tables or tool changers and didn't need all the extra stuff the LCX offers.
We just needed a bare bones accurate machine and for the cost, Techno was our obvious choice!
We bolt a sheet of MDF to the router table, and use drywall screws to hold the sheets in place while cutting so no vacuum is needed.
The vacuum table and tool changer options although good deals were both out of reach money wise for us. We also don't have 3 phase power out here in the sticks, so that would have been another cost for a phase converter.
We used to use Bob-Cad for all of our product, but recently had a major problem with our post processor, and they couldn't be bothered to help us.
7 full days to return our tech help call!!! Too busy selling to more victims!!!
We now use Enroute 3d Pro. It is not as easy to draw in as Bob-Cad, but it works every time!!! Hope this helps. When you call Techno, ask for Tim, and tell them Tom Farmer recomended you call. They will know who I am.
Good luck to your business..


So when you are cutting out cabinet parts, how do you cut through the parts with no vacuum? Are you just onion skinning the sheet and manually removing the rest or are you screwing through each part?

Also, what design program are you using to generate the parts before you export them to enroute or are you drawing everything in enroute?

tmfcwp
12-25-2007, 09:49 PM
We use an MDF waste board clamped to the "T" Slot table on our machines.
For production pieces, we have made jigs that clamp the wood in place and index every part exactly the same, we just screw the jig to the MDF.
Large sheets are screwed directly to the MDF, and parts cut out of them.
Enroute has a function called tabs that leave little bridges at the last cut and keep the parts in place. I have tried onion skin cutting, but because wood is never the exact thickness for each board, we use the bridges or free cut some parts.
Contrary to what I have been told about speed of cut,
I have the cabability to cut at rediculous speeds, but have found that for what we make, between the small bit size, hardness of woods used, depth of cut per pass and the need for a clean cut, I will stick with around 200IPM.
Keep in mind that speed is not everything, accuracy and final product finish are what matter. If you factor in the loss of speed due to accelleration in and out of corners and on arcs, the speed you think you are going is not actually the speed you are going! You also lose speed during your rapid travels and plunge points so how fast are you really going?
If you can cut your product faster, Thats awesome.
I go for a nice clean finished part that needs little final sanding.

JFettig
01-03-2008, 10:16 PM
Well, since this thread has been rejuvenated, I'll post my .02 on shop sabre....

I got hired to be the CNC expert part time at an engraving and etching company. They already purchased this Shop Sabre router before I was hired..
I'm working for a company where we bought their biggest router, dual heads, dual tool changers, as big as they can get. I agree, they use good rails and ballscrews. Everything else is cut corners and bad design. From the 200w servos to how they mount the rails, ballscrews and everything else. I've been working at this company for a couple months now and we have yet to get a very good part off of this machine. Not to mention the HORRIBLE wiring job they did in these boxes!
They wired ALL "grounds" to AC ground causing ground faults to trip when the box is turned on. I finally rewired the grounds and neutrals so its properly set up. There was a wire going from DC - to AC ground directly as well as AC ground going to terminal blocks that supply their OEM gecko drives. They got their +DC voltage from the power supply then it went back to AC ground. They'd also run 120v to the solenoid for the power draw bar then the "ground"(neutral) back to DC GROUND. This has been such a frustration I finally after hours of being on the phone with them I finally just did it myself.

When you hit the E stop button this machine the axes and spindle stop IF the axes are moving. you can hit the E stop all day if the spindle is running and no axes and it'll keep running. You can turn it on with the E stop pressed.

When a drive faults on a servo, the rest of the motors keep going, woops, there goes 5 tool forks.... did I mention underpowered servos?

My Z axis is acting very strange(I'll bet W would too, spindle 2), it lifts up early and usually drops early, not timed at all.

The gantry shakes real with most motion. Push on either side of the gantry and you have 1/8" deflection without much force.

WINCNC is another story, anyone hook up mach 3 to their machine?

Can you tell I'm frusterated? We've lost a good months worth of production due to this machine. If I had been there before this purchase I would have either built the machine myself(two actually for this price!!!) or bought a used thermwood or similar.

oh... and theres more.
making dimensional parts has also prooved to be nearly impossible... "tweak the resolution, about 2 per 1/32"'....my a**

Jon

Denny J
01-04-2008, 09:11 AM
Well, since this thread has been rejuvenated, I'll post my .02 on shop sabre....

I got hired to be the CNC expert part time at an engraving and etching company. They already purchased this Shop Sabre router before I was hired..
I'm working for a company where we bought their biggest router, dual heads, dual tool changers, as big as they can get. I agree, they use good rails and ballscrews. Everything else is cut corners and bad design. From the 200w servos to how they mount the rails, ballscrews and everything else. I've been working at this company for a couple months now and we have yet to get a very good part off of this machine. Not to mention the HORRIBLE wiring job they did in these boxes!
They wired ALL "grounds" to AC ground causing ground faults to trip when the box is turned on. I finally rewired the grounds and neutrals so its properly set up. There was a wire going from DC - to AC ground directly as well as AC ground going to terminal blocks that supply their OEM gecko drives. They got their +DC voltage from the power supply then it went back to AC ground. They'd also run 120v to the solenoid for the power draw bar then the "ground"(neutral) back to DC GROUND. This has been such a frustration I finally after hours of being on the phone with them I finally just did it myself.

When you hit the E stop button this machine the axes and spindle stop IF the axes are moving. you can hit the E stop all day if the spindle is running and no axes and it'll keep running. You can turn it on with the E stop pressed.

When a drive faults on a servo, the rest of the motors keep going, woops, there goes 5 tool forks.... did I mention underpowered servos?

My Z axis is acting very strange(I'll bet W would too, spindle 2), it lifts up early and usually drops early, not timed at all.

The gantry shakes real with most motion. Push on either side of the gantry and you have 1/8" deflection without much force.

WINCNC is another story, anyone hook up mach 3 to their machine?

Can you tell I'm frusterated? We've lost a good months worth of production due to this machine. If I had been there before this purchase I would have either built the machine myself(two actually for this price!!!) or bought a used thermwood or similar.

oh... and theres more.
making dimensional parts has also prooved to be nearly impossible... "tweak the resolution, about 2 per 1/32"'....my a**

Jon

They have a warranty on their machines, why did you not have them fix the problems? That is what they are there for. I know from visiting their shop that they run every machine before it goes out the door so it is interesting that they could make it run with all of those problems and I have seen them run and they cut a precisely as any shopbot to thermwood sized machine I have had cut parts for me. Is there a chance that you messed up some wiring in there while you were doing it yourself that could be causing the cut problems you are having? I am guessing that by now any warranty is void due to tampering.


I'll tell you what, giving you the benefit of the doubt, send me pictures of the wiring problems and files of the things you are trying to cut and when I get back up there the week of the 19th I will compare the pictures of yours to the machines they have there and take pictures of their wiring. I will take pictures of their wiring and see how it compares and I will bring material for them to cut to see if they get the same results. If that sounds fair, just send me the stuff.

BTW your link doesn't work.

JFettig
01-04-2008, 09:24 AM
next time I call I'll ask about the warrenty.

Any "tampering" that I did with the wiring was AFTER I had the problems and I fixed most of those problems myself. I've built 3 CNC machines myself.
Most of the fixing I did with them on the phone trying to figure it out, they know most of everything I've done to it and said do it. I have pictures of the wiring before I moved the neutrals from the DC ground to their proper places.

My link(if you mean website url) is down, I switched servers and have been having issues.

Jon

BensMillwork
01-04-2008, 01:30 PM
When I was in the market for a cnc, shopsabre gave me the number of a local guy I called him and he let me come out and look at his machine and I'm pretty sure his was '02 or older, because it was when they were still made in the owners original place of business. He was cutting magnesium and some sort of plastic material for a military order .But I remember seing these intricate cuts.I can't tell you what he was making as it was a trade secret of his. But he spoke to me of his Cnc adventures. He told me he traveled in his business a good bit and that he visited the shops of several of the top brands that were affordable, excluding any rack and pinion machines. But to make a long story short, he chose a shopsabre and spoke very highly of his '02 and had no complaints and would do it again.
So early this summer I ordered a 4896.It came in about 6-7 weeks later.We had it together and fired up in about 3 hrs.As an inspector of electrical components in the early '80 on nuclear power plant simulators .The control box for the AC digital servos was neatly wired ,the harness was secured and tie wrapped at all points ,strain reliefs were correctly sized and fitted on connecting cables. I can only attest the a visual inspection since there have been no malfunctions that was cause me to due any further inspections. As to repeatability of dimensional parts + or - .001 on the few parts that I ran and they did not have to be that precise. I mostly due cabinets, some guitar bodies, and v-carving for signs, a few gun stocks and pistol grips.
I use Autocabinets from Routercad another good company and very well priced compared to it's competitors ,Also I use Enroutewood 3 clicks from dfx to nested parts.
Ben
Ben's Millwork

ShopSabreCNC
01-04-2008, 01:37 PM
Well, since this thread has been rejuvenated, I'll post my .02 on shop sabre....

I got hired to be the CNC expert part time at an engraving and etching company. They already purchased this Shop Sabre router before I was hired..
I'm working for a company where we bought their biggest router, dual heads, dual tool changers, as big as they can get. I agree, they use good rails and ballscrews. Everything else is cut corners and bad design. From the 200w servos to how they mount the rails, ballscrews and everything else. I've been working at this company for a couple months now and we have yet to get a very good part off of this machine. Not to mention the HORRIBLE wiring job they did in these boxes!
They wired ALL "grounds" to AC ground causing ground faults to trip when the box is turned on. I finally rewired the grounds and neutrals so its properly set up. There was a wire going from DC - to AC ground directly as well as AC ground going to terminal blocks that supply their OEM gecko drives. They got their +DC voltage from the power supply then it went back to AC ground. They'd also run 120v to the solenoid for the power draw bar then the "ground"(neutral) back to DC GROUND. This has been such a frustration I finally after hours of being on the phone with them I finally just did it myself.

When you hit the E stop button this machine the axes and spindle stop IF the axes are moving. you can hit the E stop all day if the spindle is running and no axes and it'll keep running. You can turn it on with the E stop pressed.

When a drive faults on a servo, the rest of the motors keep going, woops, there goes 5 tool forks.... did I mention underpowered servos?

My Z axis is acting very strange(I'll bet W would too, spindle 2), it lifts up early and usually drops early, not timed at all.

The gantry shakes real with most motion. Push on either side of the gantry and you have 1/8" deflection without much force.

WINCNC is another story, anyone hook up mach 3 to their machine?

Can you tell I'm frusterated? We've lost a good months worth of production due to this machine. If I had been there before this purchase I would have either built the machine myself(two actually for this price!!!) or bought a used thermwood or similar.

oh... and theres more.
making dimensional parts has also prooved to be nearly impossible... "tweak the resolution, about 2 per 1/32"'....my a**

Jon

At ShopSabre CNC, we pride ourselves on customer service and support. ShopSabre does everything possible to ensure every machine leaves our facility and operates as designed in our client’s facility.

Over time, improvements are made and technology changes. We are on the cutting edge of CNC with our current configuration. Unfortunately, as time passes and used machines are customized and sold from company to company, we have no control over the condition or modifications that are made along the way. You failed to mention this, but it appears by what you describe that you are working with the used machine that was originally owned by a gentleman that ran it 16+ hours a day 6-7 days a week. This machine, that you state has a “bad design,” produced more than 10k parts a week for years for the Ford Motor Company.

Geckos are a stepper drive that we abandoned five years ago. This machine is over five years old. You say your servo drives are only 200W. You are not even able to discern the difference between a servo and a stepper motor. By the way, you have steppers, and it is measured in ounce inches.

Our stepper motors are a high power custom motor, designed specifically for us. We are higher in power than any of our competitors.

Our Servo drives are 400w and are an A/C digital type, the latest technology. With 200lbs. of cut force at the spindle, it is the most powerful CNC in our price range.

You say that you would have recommended a Thermwood, but I question whether you have any experience with them. Which, by the way, is a machine that costs 3-4 times what we charge for our machine. Our customers have repeatedly replaced their machines with ours.

It appears you build your own machines. You state that you have built Three. We have built over 1000 machines and are in 19 different countries. ShopSabre machines are producing every type of part in every type of material imaginable.

At 1200 inches per minute, we now produce the fastest and most powerful ball screw CNC table under $100k. With repeatability at .001", we have great precision. We will put our components up against any to show we do not "cut corners" as you stated.

Although we would like to try and remedy the situation, you have not been fair and given us the opportunity to do so before posting a negative comment.

Even though you have deemed fit to publish your negative opinions on this forum we are still committed to helping your employer resolve any issues they may need help with.

We at ShopSabre stand behind our machines and we are confident that we manufacture the highest quality CNC under $100k. It is a true value when compared on the market.

If you have any questions, please contact us: www.shopsabre.com

Denny J
01-04-2008, 01:39 PM
Hi Ben

How is that routercad package working for you? Do you have the AI module and either of the dovetail drawer or mdf door modules?

BensMillwork
01-04-2008, 02:26 PM
Hello Denny ,yes the new Illustrator is great it has a stock set of commercial cabinets as well as standard kitchen with beaded inset,the you can modify any of those or just using the cabinet builder do the really custom stuff.Then say.... if your doing a job where you don't need room drawings, you can use the control center to just enter the sizes and it will output that to enroute and use the auto tool path creation and your done.I have the Drawercad program which is pretty cool to.They keep upgrading the program so fast they don't have a manual ,you go online and Carl the tech guts sets up your enroute and tool strategies and gives you a lesson.They have some quick start guides ,but because the programs are fairly new it would be a waste to do a full blown manual as the program keeps evolving and becoming more powerful. Did you order a router ?

Ben

Denny J
01-04-2008, 02:28 PM
Not yet. Getting very close

Denny J
01-04-2008, 02:41 PM
next time I call I'll ask about the warrenty.

Any "tampering" that I did with the wiring was AFTER I had the problems and I fixed most of those problems myself. I've built 3 CNC machines myself.
Most of the fixing I did with them on the phone trying to figure it out, they know most of everything I've done to it and said do it. I have pictures of the wiring before I moved the neutrals from the DC ground to their proper places.

My link(if you mean website url) is down, I switched servers and have been having issues.

Jon

So you mean you bought a pre owned 5 year old router and you are are bashing the company about things that were done to the machine by the previous owner?


Sad

BensMillwork
01-04-2008, 03:30 PM
Denny, I saw in a earlier post that you were wanting tips on starting a business.
What kind of business are you wanting to start? I guess it involves a cnc and I suppose cabinets since you were asking about routercad. Let me know maybe I can help. I do a little of everything Saw lumber with a woodmizer sawmill, kiln dry the lumber ,pull out anything that is figured and market that in a different manor targeting guitar makers ,I also do custom kitchens and built ends ,and furniture although I don't get much of a call for that these days ,I'm developing highly figured gunstocks and pistol grips, and branching out into signs and graphic designs using the cnc in as many ways as possible.As far as the earlier post that prompted me to post today in the first place, I can't imagine a shopsabre performing like what he described, unless ,like you said, " They bought it used and someone had abused it and worked it over.But that does not sound like what he is saying.If it were a new one maybe someone tampered with it at some point in time to intentionally make it malfunction.I've had several people look at mine who happen to be in the shop buying lumber, one who runs a large shop with cnc's and they could not believe the quality and components used for the price, especially when they compare it to the much more expensive units they had purchased.
I have relatives near Petersburg West Va.have you ever been there?
Well gotta run ...school called and my daughter missed the bus !
Ben

Denny J
01-04-2008, 04:28 PM
Hi Ben

I think the post you saw had to do with a machine shop in my town whose owner just passed away. I am the mayor of the town and we wanted to keep the business going rather than have it parted out,which we were able to do.



I own a Custom Cabinetry business. We do mostly residential but also some commercial and we want to do more euro cabinets along with some 3d carvings,newels etc. and solid surface. We have been looking at the CNC for a long time, but really got hung up on software. We currently use KCDW and Ecabinets but want something with more flexibility in design than KCDW offers and I am not that high on Ecabinets.

I had a demo with Tony on Routercad and it seemed pretty good, but then there was another shop who had bought it that had several problems with it and in talking to him I started to lean towards Cabinetvision manufacturing.

I would like to talk to you about the gunstocks. I am an avid hunter and would like to look at producing some unique stocks for my guns.

I agree with your assessment on the SS router. They are well built and from what I see getting better all the time.

BensMillwork
01-04-2008, 04:53 PM
Hello, I'm very sorry I got confused on that post .The main difference... a guy who I talked to on the phone the other day is that cabinetvision wanted 30K to upgrade his standard version to the full cnc version. If you have a problem with the software Carl will work it out and Tony is a great guy as well.The problem most people have is there is not a full blown manual with tutorials and almost every other month or so they are adding features and correcting any odd problems that might come up.I'll send you a picture of my spalted maple.
Yes, I hunt up in Pendleton County up on Spruce Mtn.
Thanks,
Ben

Denny J
01-04-2008, 05:03 PM
Does Routercad give you the ability to do renderings of rooms or just 2d line drawings?

I think the thing that I like the most about CV is that you can choose the hardware that you want to use and it automatically associates that hardware to the door and also automatically places the system holes on the panel. For instance, if you were doing a custom closet and wanted a clothes pole, a slide out drawer and a shelf, the program just puts holes where you want them VS the swiss cheese 32mm line boring pattern. Plus I am set up to go to my customers with the presentations and it is very important to me to be able to show them visually in 3D what the room will look like just as I can in KCDW and I feel that going back to 2d would not give me that.

I live in Southern MN. Not far from the Iowa border

BensMillwork
01-04-2008, 05:19 PM
I was just asking Carl about perspective views just yesterday.That is already added on the version that will be released in a matter of days.Similar to the 3d I used in Autocad with cadkit.Cadkit used autocad as the engine and it provided all the libraries doors and wall that could be resized and so on then just like in autocad you could just point to a spot on the floor where your view would originate then lines shot out from that point at an angle and you would select a back and a front and it would set your perspective view to capture every thing between the two lines.So you could in effect block out an island if you wanted an un-obscured view.But there coming along if there is a feature that they have overlooked and it's a good one they will add it in.If you do go with cabinet vision Enroutewood would work as the cam portion.It has cabinetvison as one of the options that you set to import the layered DFX file directly from cabinet vision and nest all the parts and create your toolpath all in just 3 clicks.

JFettig
01-04-2008, 09:06 PM
At ShopSabre CNC, we pride ourselves on customer service and support. ShopSabre does everything possible to ensure every machine leaves our facility and operates as designed in our client’s facility.

Over time, improvements are made and technology changes. We are on the cutting edge of CNC with our current configuration. Unfortunately, as time passes and used machines are customized and sold from company to company, we have no control over the condition or modifications that are made along the way. You failed to mention this, but it appears by what you describe that you are working with the used machine that was originally owned by a gentleman that ran it 16+ hours a day 6-7 days a week. This machine, that you state has a “bad design,” produced more than 10k parts a week for years for the Ford Motor Company.

Geckos are a stepper drive that we abandoned five years ago. This machine is over five years old. You say your servo drives are only 200W. You are not even able to discern the difference between a servo and a stepper motor. By the way, you have steppers, and it is measured in ounce inches.

Our stepper motors are a high power custom motor, designed specifically for us. We are higher in power than any of our competitors.

Our Servo drives are 400w and are an A/C digital type, the latest technology. With 200lbs. of cut force at the spindle, it is the most powerful CNC in our price range.

You say that you would have recommended a Thermwood, but I question whether you have any experience with them. Which, by the way, is a machine that costs 3-4 times what we charge for our machine. Our customers have repeatedly replaced their machines with ours.

It appears you build your own machines. You state that you have built Three. We have built over 1000 machines and are in 19 different countries. ShopSabre machines are producing every type of part in every type of material imaginable.

At 1200 inches per minute, we now produce the fastest and most powerful ball screw CNC table under $100k. With repeatability at .001", we have great precision. We will put our components up against any to show we do not "cut corners" as you stated.

Although we would like to try and remedy the situation, you have not been fair and given us the opportunity to do so before posting a negative comment.

Even though you have deemed fit to publish your negative opinions on this forum we are still committed to helping your employer resolve any issues they may need help with.

We at ShopSabre stand behind our machines and we are confident that we manufacture the highest quality CNC under $100k. It is a true value when compared on the market.

If you have any questions, please contact us: www.shopsabre.com

Wow, I sure hope you didn't sell us a used router!

on the X Y Z and W, there are 200 watt AC servos(not 400 like you say). The rotary tables have steppers and use a drive similar to gecko (tormach's gecko knockoff?) I can post pics if you like!

1200 IPM? The max feed rate YOU set it up at is 600IPM. And its repeating to about 1/8".....

Haven't given you a fair chance to remedy this? Hows 2 months? I've spent countless hours on the phone with your tech support and it is still not producing parts with any repeatability.
We're out 2 months of production because of all the work we've had to do to get it working as well as it is..

NO we did not buy a 5 year old router.

Jon

JFettig
01-04-2008, 09:12 PM
So you mean you bought a pre owned 5 year old router and you are are bashing the company about things that were done to the machine by the previous owner?


Sad

NO! READ POST ABOVE.

BensMillwork
01-04-2008, 09:26 PM
Where did the '02 router come from .It was there when you got hired, we understand that part.Did your company have for 5 years ? or did they buy it used?
Thank you,
Ben

JFettig
01-04-2008, 09:28 PM
What '02 router? Mr ShopSabreCNC is mixed up.

The router was purchased NEW in July or August(I think received in August 07).


Jon

Denny J
01-04-2008, 09:35 PM
Then how do you explain the gecko drives on a servo router? That doesn't make sense to me. Does it have servo's or gecko's? If you think you are wiring a stepper and you have servo's doesn't that raise a red flag?

JFettig
01-04-2008, 09:37 PM
I believe I've stated this a few times, there ARE steppers on the ROTARY axes. 2 rotary tables with stepper motors on them. XYZW are all servo. AB are stepper.

BensMillwork
01-04-2008, 09:53 PM
I thought the router that was having the problems was an '02 ,every post mentioned a 5 year old router.I will have to go back and read the original.Hmmmm.......Mr Shopsabre.....I like it !


What '02 router? Mr ShopSabreCNC is mixed up.

The router was purchased NEW in July or August(I think received in August).

KustomKoncepts
01-06-2008, 04:26 PM
I for one just decided on a SS 4896. I sign the papers at the bank wenesday and they will be starting on my machine. I have been to their facility and that was all it took for me. They are a smaller company (like Me) but I got the feeling they are a hard working group of Local talented guys that don't hide behind a big corporate wall of BS. Yes there are many companies out there and it is up to each of us to decide what we buy.

The owner of shop sabre along with the help of Jason Berry I was there for almost 5 hours. They where both back there showing me what ever I wanted to see not like most owners would have been out golfing or something.

They showed me there first prototype table that is now a welding table and they showed me the improvements that they have made on it over the years. I would expect to see improvements all the time. I in my business can look back at race cars I lettered 3 years ago and I say why did I do it like that. I have got so much better in the last years.

I won't bash other machines because SS is the only one I saw in person and it was what I needed so I got it.

BensMillwork
01-06-2008, 06:53 PM
Good choice ! same choice I made this summer, although I did not have the pleasure of the tour, but spoke to those who have and their comments were very similar to yours .Well congratulations again on your new purchase.Let us know how your assembly goes, mine was not a problem and unless you have a propane powered fork lift use an engine hoist to lift the gantry or five or six men.I was going to use the forks, but did not want to be breathing the diesel fumes that long .What software are you getting ?
Ben

tmfcwp
01-06-2008, 07:47 PM
Hi all,
Congradulations on your CNC purchase.
I have been in the business for about 4 years and cannot imagine going back to doing things the hard way!
I am curious, you said something about assembly? What do you need to assemble? How do you know if you did it right? Is it hard to do?
I have 2 Techno machines ( a 4896LC and a 59120 LC) they came completely assembled, and all I had to do was plug them in!
I am going to buy a third machine this year, and the ShopBots sound interesting.
Any answers out there?

Denny J
01-06-2008, 08:53 PM
In order to save on shipping costs, they offer the option of Shipping the machine with the Gantry removed to make it easier to crate and also I believe to help prevent damage in transit.

If you go there and pick it up they will leave the gantry on the machine so it is plug and play. I do believe others do the same thing

LargoLes
01-06-2008, 11:27 PM
Hello All

I just wanted to chime on the ShopSabre discussion. I have had mine for a few months now. It has worked great. I can cut identical parts all day long. I have had no problems except of my own making. I keep coming up with things to cut that I hadn't thought I would. If I was doing it again the only thing I would do different would add a couple of options if I could afford it. If anyone has any questions, you can email me.

KustomKoncepts
01-07-2008, 10:50 AM
I am a sign shop so I have Sign Lab (draws 2D shapes and text) I will take that into VCarve and apply the effects I want. I will use Rhino 3D to make 3D shapes and use Cut3D to cut it.

The gantry does come detatched and from what they explained , it was like 8 bolts you have to put in. It is not a whole bolt together kit like some. THe table top is all welded and you set it on the pedestal stand and like 4 bolts or you can weld it there.

IMHO...

The main thing I got was why they choose to do it this way is for easier freight and you can fit the machine through smaller doors if you needed to get it into a part of your shop that had a standard walk through door. then you can assemble it in there and disasemble it to move out.

(Shop Sabre correct me if I am wrong on that statement)

some machines are shipped in one piece and for me if don't matter I have a 14' overhead door but some people have tighter spots to fit it in.

ddgman2001
03-22-2008, 02:20 PM
I have a couple of Shop Sabre questions.

Searching this forum or Google doesn't turn up much on these machines. Why is that?

Any guesses on the weight of the gantry? If I get one for my shop, the gantry and frame will have to be carried down a short flight of stairs.

Thanks

KustomKoncepts
03-22-2008, 02:49 PM
Shop sabre is a fairly new company. that is why there is not much out there on them. www.shopsabre.com ask for Jason Berry

the 4896 is 2200 LBS it is in three pieces but I would not want to carry it down stairs.

ro7all
11-06-2008, 11:33 PM
hi

ro7all
11-07-2008, 12:41 AM
in all my years of woodworking and metal working I have never had a machine that was so frustrating. The man hours lost and wasted not mentioning the loss in materials and customers, with the annoyance of existing clients in being unable to complete projects, just because this machine continually keeps breaking down! I have never felt so ripped off, I am going to put a sign in front of my shop saying I own a ShopSabre , unfortunately, I would like your business, I would like to make things for you, but like I said I own a ShopSabre so maybe I will be able to make it with this machine, but I wouldn't bet on it. So if you have money and time to waste step right on in and I will give it a try, it just might be your lucky day!

There are some really nice people there at ShopSabre , they are always very helpful over the phone in attempting to solve the problems even sending replacement parts, if they have them on hand-I might get them a week later. There was even a technician sent my shop twice on different occasions, a really nice guy that really seem to care and did his best to get this machine up and running properly and it did for a couple weeks, to bad he lives over 2000 miles away. I would offer him a job but since I am losing more money with this machine than I am making, not sure how I would pay him. Major lessons learned from this experience: one) don't buy an expensive piece of equipment unless it is local made or at the least in the same state. Two) never pay the full price up front.

ro7all
11-07-2008, 12:59 AM
today was a prime example that customer has been wanting his parts made for the last two days unable to get the machine to cut the parts properly, in frustration the client was in the shop watching me attempting to cut his parts, he has a small CNC router, there is nothing like seeing the look on a customer's face when the tool holder comes flying out of the router as it is rotating at 15000 RPM

KustomKoncepts
11-07-2008, 10:14 AM
sorry for all your problems.. I have had a few small problems but nothing like that. most mine have been me just learning how to used the programs and machine. I don't know how to help your problems what exactly is it doing? other than releasing tools.

todd71
11-07-2008, 11:29 AM
There was even a technician sent my shop twice on different occasions, a really nice guy that really seem to care and did his best to get this machine up and running properly and it did for a couple weeks, to bad he lives over 2000 miles away. I would offer him a job but since I am losing more money with this machine than I am making, not sure how I would pay him. Major lessons learned from this experience: one) don't buy an expensive piece of equipment unless it is local made or at the least in the same state. Two) never pay the full price up front.

Here's where I start sounding like an a$$hole again.
Is it the machine or you? Works for couple of weeks then doesn't. WTF
"Toolholder comes out of the spindle at 15000 rpm" If the tool holder
loaded properly it would not have came out. The design is such that centrifical force will increase the hold on to the pull stud. Is your air compressor maintaining constant 125 psi? There are so many varibles to the operation on any CNC machine ( electromagnetic interference, air pressure, bad grounding, voltage spikes or drops) If your set up was incomplete or poorly done you will have problems no matter what machine you have. Was my SS perfect out of the crate? "Hell no" But once I got things ironed out, with some help from SS and some back tracking on my set up, it been smooth sailing for the last 2 1/2yrs. Sorry to hear your problems have had such a negitive effect on your buisness. But if you think CNC is a "plug in and play" type of deal you've been misled.

Todd
www.innovative-accents.com (http://www.innovative-accents.com/)

KustomKoncepts
11-07-2008, 11:36 AM
todd.. you are not a a hole. you are right. I can't belive the tool releases at 15,000. I have never seen that even with the air supply off I can't pull my toolholder out if I wanted to. Is there a lot of debris built up in there where is is not catching. the air does not hold it in it only clicks a silinoid to release it.

I am a sign shop I can make you that sign Jack a$$ because Mine works.

I let SS know about your thread here also ro7all

ShopSabreCNC
11-07-2008, 12:40 PM
In response to Ron's post as ro7all:

Let's get all of the facts on the table before you post incorrect statements for the world to see. The fact is these post were done before you contacted anyone here. The first we here from you is this morning and come to find out you have damaged the spindle some how. When "metal pieces fall out" as you stated, that is beyond our control. As far as any other issue, we have helped and in fact we have sent a techincian to you at our cost to resolve any issues. The last visit we made, everything was functioning as designed and you in fact told us everything was working great a couple of weeks ago.

Now the fact is you let your operator go and hired someone new, we are not responsible for the learning curve of the new operator. By crashing the head into the table surface and setting off the servo, this again is not the fault of the machine. The CNC can only do what it is told.

I hate to have something get to this point as we have been working together and helping resolve any issue. No one is perfect and things happen, we know that and this is why we continue to help.

If I had an issue with your cabinet parts would I post something on the internet trying to degrad you or would I call you directly and work together as business professionals?

We have helped and will continue to help with any issue that may arise, but please state the complete facts.

If anyone has any questions or concerns, please call us at 800-493-6021.
Mike

bruce57
11-07-2008, 01:33 PM
kustomkoncepts,sorry todd71 is an a-hole,i sit next to him everyday!the shpsabre on the otherhand is a fine and forgiving machine.30 years machining experience. bruce

KustomKoncepts
11-07-2008, 01:35 PM
Thanks SS also wanted you to know if you did not read it on the other post, that my issue with my not able do restarts and getting a ERROR BOUNDRY EXCEEDED was not the machine or win cnc either. I never made any change to the programing from the factory settings.

It was all because I never set up the ATC function. now that I have I can watch it to tool changes through the program setting on one file and stop it and restart it from any line never had a error since I set it up now. I also did do a win CNC update there was a newer version but after the update it still gave me the error until I set up the ATC.

this was another example where it was not the machine or program It was the oporators not fallowing the protocal correctly SS set it up for a tool chnger so the machine was thinking on a restart that the Boundry Was Exceeded.

It has been 9 months and the machine is great. I just have not really had a need or was nervious about using the ATC so I had never set it up till now. it is cool to watch it do its thing and restarts with no problems.

ro7all
11-07-2008, 07:30 PM
Yes , lets please do get the facts straight:

1) “everything was functioning as designed” right!, this is why the technician had to spend a half day with a cutting torch ( I had to provide ) to attempt to get the frame in alignment as the side rails where not parallel, nor straight , this is the way we received it. And this was about 3 months after your company was made aware of the problems. It has gone through two control boards, third one is on its way, by your techs recommendation, according to your office, and we might get it by the end of next week. It still does not cut some things correctly, but the technician had a plane to catch. (I was not able to be there when he and my operator thought that they had everything done. )
2) Yes I fired the operator that I trained, true I do have a new operator that I am training, but as I have not let him touch anything other than a broom or tools that he hands to me, not sure how he could be causing problems.
3) “ crashing the head into the table surface and setting off the servo” I never said that or claimed that is what took place.
4) “you post incorrect statements for the world to see. The fact is these post were done before you contacted anyone here” partially correct, I did start talking to your technician yesterday morning (Nov 6) about what I consider now related problems , such not being able to control the speed of the spindle-which your tech diagnose as being a card problem, also a possible relation with the fact the tool changer was not operating properly by not releasing the tool in the exact spot every time ,this was occurring randomly, also with the fact that after releasing the tool in the stand then moving to the next tool without raising up even though the computer line display that it should. this also was occurring randomly Etc., etc., etc. etc. ,

You know I could go on and on about the faults of the equipment and the production of it. All of which are very frustrating and annoying. But what has made me the angriest is not the fault of the equipment nor even how your people have responded to questions for help, all machines have problems, but the attitude of the front office or upper management that none of the problems are a big deal to them, you ask how do I know that? Easy, actions always speak louder than words,

1) phones calls are returned at your convenience – maybe right away, maybe the next day or later, on several occasions not at all.
2) Never did get the corrected or proper manual for this machine, even after numerous request, some made directly to you Mike, yes I did receive bits and pieces over time.
3) Faulty, CNC controller software, took almost a month to get the correct version, ( might have been less) it definitely was not within a couple of days. 2nd time it was discovered that the version I was given would not cut radius correctly , had to wait for that version, don’t remember exactly how long that took to get here, definitely not within a couple of days!
4) Took at least 3 months of constant calling and phone conversations to get some body there to realize, that the problems were not going to get resolved over the phone! And it was not by my supposedly incompetence or operator faults-- as your technician can attest to, or why would it have taken him 2 days of working, 1st day over 12 hours, 2nd day about 15 hours – this was the first visit, >this work was on factory faults< He left the first time with everybody knowing that he was going to have to come back. Took ,I think over a month for him to get back, and then another 2 long days of working on his part to get the machine reasonable useable, I applaud his dedication and determination to do his best to get this machine right. Your company is very, very fortunate to have a man like him. I do not give praise lightly, he truly an admirable young man. To bad there are not more like him. To bad my machine was not quality checked by a man of his caliber, as I am sure we would not be having this discussion.
Etc., etc, etc , I could keep going if you like ?

The main point is I bought this machine with the belief that I would be able to make money with it. And since the day I turn it on, I may have gotten 16 hours of good work out it. I would have thought that your company would want me to be making money with it??? Now I have to wait another week for a new control card , oh sure you will send it next day air IF I PAY FOR IT!!!!!! Why should I pay for it?, its not my fault your company keeps sending me faulty cards. A week here a week there all these weeks of wasted weeks of waiting that I have now turn into months of time wasted and lost. Not to mention my wasted time( which equals money that I will never see, lost time with my family, lost clients , lost new business opportunities) in trying to get a machine to work that was not going to be able to work properly until the factory made problems were resolved---- and I thought finally were. If by now you don’t understand why I am angry ……
And now the new problem ---------------enough.

You are right of course I should have not been ranting and raving on this forum last night, I was very tired ( it was about 9pm when I quit working and I normally start my day at 5am) and frustrated and dealing with feelings of embarrassment that I was going to have to tell one more new client that I was not going to be able to complete his project for him.

ro7all
11-07-2008, 08:32 PM
hi KK , yes it is pretty cool to watch robotic and cnc equipment in action, when they are working properly. I had been working with automated equipment for many years before i went into woodworking.
Glad to hear that yours is working well, hope some day i can say the same.

KustomKoncepts
11-07-2008, 08:38 PM
sorry for all your problems.. I have a vinyl printer that I would love to kill somedays when equipment is not doing what you want it to do it is very frustrating but I have only had minor problems with my router that have been resolved with no need for replacement parts only operations management.

LargoLes
11-09-2008, 10:39 PM
Hello ro7all

I have had my ShopSabre for over a year and have no major problems. A couple of small things that were taken care of right away. Sorry to here you have had problems. Hope things work out.

ShopSabreCNC
11-10-2008, 09:03 AM
From what I have learned from speaking with Charlie and from Ben, we have different stories. I tried to contact you and did not receive a call except from speaking with Charlie.

This could all be resolved with better communication on all ends. When that breaks down, then we all get more frustrated. I understand your frustration as you must understand our frustration as well. Being over 1000 machines all over the world, your issue is so random that it is something Ben is trying to pin down. Just throwing parts at it is not the right thing to do.

As far as the repairs done at your location, it was necessary and I don't know what happened in shipping or setup to change things, but in fact the tech that came to your facility was the same guy that tested your machine before it left here. So I can assure you that something changed.

The bottom line, we are working to resolve the final issue with the machine and keeping the communication open is critical. Please understand that something like this could be electrical, glitch in your computer, or something else that is out of our control.

Please call us with any questions or concerns or if you just need to vent. We understand as our machines are just designed to run everyday without fail as you can see from the others on this site.

Thanks!
Mike

SkipW
11-16-2008, 11:46 PM
Sorry to hear that someone is having trouble with their Shopsabre.

I've had mine for about 5 years now, and it was perfect right out of the box and it has maintained its accuracy and repeatability throughout the thousands of hours that I've run it. I couldn't be happier with it.

I'm just sayin'


Skip

ro7all
11-17-2008, 01:42 AM
hi Skip, glad to hear that you have had such a great machine and so trouble free, which wood router model did you get? what HP, dose it have the ATC ?

SkipW
11-17-2008, 10:05 AM
hi Skip, glad to hear that you have had such a great machine and so trouble free, which wood router model did you get? what HP, dose it have the ATC ?

Greetings,

I have a 4896 without an ATC and I just use a PC router for a spindle, so maybe my post isn't relevant to the discussion going on here. Mine is an earlier build before they went to the wider side linear rails and three gantry rail bearings. Mine just has two gantry bearings per side.

In all honesty, I had a fellow from NY State come to look at my machine before he decided to purchase one. After he got his, he had a complaint about the right side rail beam/tube/whatever you call it/ not being welded straight on the far end of the machine. This was after they changed the design to the wider rails. I'm assuming, and hoping, that Shopsabre made that right for him somehow.

All I can say is that I would buy another machine from this company in a heartbeat. Any time I ever had any questions while I was in learning mode, they were always quick to get back to me. Their customer service has been excellent. I had a near lightning strike one time that caused a power surge and it popped a chip in my PCI card. They saw to it that I received a new card and I was running again in 2 days. I had to pay for it, of course, because it wasn't their fault. It was my fault for leaving my PC plugged in (but not on) during a thunder storm. Lesson learned, now I unplug it.

Skip

BensMillwork
12-07-2008, 05:16 PM
Hi All,

I have owned a Shopsabre 4896 for about 15 months now and I couldn't be happier with it. It's a rugged, well built machine. The ONLY problem I've had with it was a set screw coming loose on the Y axis Love-Joy coupling. It took me a minute to figure out why my Y screw quit turning, but it was a quick fix.

This is my first CNC router and now that I have a little experience with it, I wish I would have gotten at least a 5 HP spindle instead of opting for the 3 1/14 HP PC router. I can still do everything that a bigger spindle could do, I just can't do it as fast as I'd like to sometimes.

The RAMS software and the WinCNC software are a good combination and real easy to learn. I use CorelDraw for making drawings because I already had that and knew how to use it.

Shopsabre is a relatively new company and they've had some growing pains but I think they have their act together now. They offer a great machine at a good price.

If anyone has any questions I can help with, ask away.

Paul
The set screw is left over from an older design the pulley is locked down with the threaded screw on the shaft, just tighten the the nut securely and that locks the pulley in place.The shaft expands and she does not move ,Jim the owner invented this new method of securing the pulley.
Ben

BensMillwork
12-07-2008, 05:24 PM
Shopsabre makes many size machines from laser to cnc and many different sizes.
Besides my own, I set up a 40 watt laser with a 4'x 8' table.The Laser cut width was .005.It was amazing the detail it would cut.i have added that to my wish list.No major problem with set up.The laser did get misaligned during shipment. But about 20 minutes with a power meter and I was able to get 43 watts which is perfect for wood engraving.They market one up to 400 watts.
Ben

ddgman2001
03-30-2009, 08:26 PM
How are these machines for solid wood work? Are they a little light for that?

Any racking issues?

ro7all
03-31-2009, 12:03 PM
hally ho! finally got my spindle back from repairs,$5000.00, their diagnose of the problem was the spindle try to change tools will running/spinning, which is what i personal watched it do, contrary to others have said it couldn't do and that SS said that they dont understand how that could happen.

when mine works, i still don't trust it, cutting solid wood is not a problem , it is all relative to cut depth and feed rates and type of cutter.

ro7all
03-31-2009, 12:07 PM
oh , just to be for warned , unless i miss understood SS their machine is only warrantied for a year, but the spindle only has a 6 month warranty.

BensMillwork
03-31-2009, 01:39 PM
I'm not sure about spindle warranty.Back to the solid wood cutting.I have cut through 1" oak in one pass at around 200 IPM. and I have had no problems with racking.The table itself is very sturdy .Welded cross bars about every foot.
Sorry to hear about your spindle.I will check on the warranty time.
Thanks,
Ben

todd71
03-31-2009, 07:11 PM
I had the toolchanger try to change while the spindle was turning. Scared the hell out of me. Turned out the wire for the magnetic switch was shorting out. That's was after a couple of years of running. Never had a problem cutting solid wood but 2 balls screws on the Y axis would be more rigid. Even then, its not necessary for what we got going on. The alum pc's on my web site were cut using 2 tools in about 3 min per pc.
If there was serious racking problems with their design I probly would have seen it on my machine then.

cabnet636
04-02-2009, 07:26 AM
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77293

tgoy
11-01-2009, 10:09 PM
I contacted Mark Bombardo by phone and spoke for quite a while. I had decided to purchase the 48 X 48 machine. I ask him to email me a quote for the machine and options I wanted AND a couple of references. I explained I just wanted to talk to someone who was using the machine. That was 3/2/2004. I never heard from him. I called again about 3 weeks later and he said he would send the information I wanted. Well I have not received an email yet.

They do look like well build machines and to here Mark talk about them I would assume they are. I just can not let go of that much money with out checking it out first.

I gave up and decided to build. I bought big servos, ball screws, and rails and bearings. I am now in the process of changing the www.Data-Cut.com (http://www.Data-Cut.com) plans to fit the low cost rails and screws. May be I can get some pics on CNCZone before to long.

Give Mark a call and see what you think. Good luck!



Did you build the Data-Cut table and what do you think of the plans or any modifications that you have made?

asinterior
11-19-2010, 01:35 PM
hally ho! finally got my spindle back from repairs,$5000.00, their diagnose of the problem was the spindle try to change tools will running/spinning, which is what i personal watched it do, contrary to others have said it couldn't do and that SS said that they dont understand how that could happen.

when mine works, i still don't trust it, cutting solid wood is not a problem , it is all relative to cut depth and feed rates and type of cutter.

-----------------
we purchased our CNC machine year and a half ago. This machine does not cut circles or arches. The arches come wavy.

There are other problems with machine. We want to check if anyone else has any problems. Please call us at 301.330.9520 to compare the notes.

CNCUSER51
08-17-2011, 05:24 PM
You all seem like knuckle heads... my ShopSabre has been no issue at all... learn how to the machine and I bet you dont have troubles... I ran bigger machines for my job and then bought this system because it is the only one that compared to what I run at my job.... I havent had any issues that arent a normal start up learning thing but once I actually LEARNED the machine which wasnt very long the table has been awesome... Ben in their tech department has been great and the sales guys knew there stuff... There is my opinion... ShopSabre is the best machine for the money... if you have lots of money then go buy something in the $100,000 range but for me out of my garage as a start up business this thing works well! Even after I have lots of money :banana: I think I will stick with the ShopSabre.

ro7all
08-17-2011, 09:13 PM
to cncuser51: for you to imply/state that my and other users are the root cause of our machine's problems , is incredibly stupid, therefore that must mean you are very stupid person. i challenge you to call and talk to Ben about a machine that is located in San Diego,Ca. (flame2)

ps. respond if you must, i will not continue in these postings.

bargecnc
01-26-2012, 09:49 PM
I am looking at purchasing a new CNC machine but am nervious about getting a 4'x8' machine like the patriot. I do occasionaly cut larger parts up to 5'x10' but dont have much experience with Shop sabre, laguna tools or patriot....

Anyone have feedback on these machines?

gators
02-29-2012, 08:22 AM
I'm also looking at these three machines and would greatly appreciate any feedback. Thanks!

duraflap
10-29-2013, 01:38 AM
I have a very nice 4x4 cnc router and a 48x96 cnc plasma machines that I use for my business daily. I needed a better equipped router to expand my work and looked for about three months at a lot of machines. I was convinced that I wanted an American built machine and that was bottom line. I found a lot of info here on this forum and many references to different companies. Not much said about Shop Sabre good or bad. I finally decided after talking to Brandon at the American made Shop Sabre factory and asked for a bid on a new machine to order new. Brandon also arranged for me to visit a customer of his that was fairly close to me so I could see his machine in person. I was impressed!! Talk about industrial quality!
By chance I found a 2012 model in Seattle for sale on E-bay. I contacted the seller, got the facts and then promptly called Brandon at the factory. He knew the company that sold the machine at auction and he gave me what information he had on this machine. Long story short, I bought this 4816 machine from the auction buyer with tool changer, vacuum and 5 hp spindle the next day. Shop Sabre sold me a lifetime support plan even though it was a used machine. That was the smartest move I've made in a long time. I have been able to talk to three of their tec's personally for a week now to get this machine up to par and on line. Since this machine was a hardship sale, some parts were missing. I needed to replace missing tools and parts and the factory had them all. I finally cut test parts Sunday. I'm so Happy! Happy! Happy!...Life is Good!
Dennis Perry owner of Duraflap Mudflaps