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joecnc2006
01-05-2007, 04:51 PM
I thought I would open this Thread to Be able to have all the Modifications and Additions to the Machine so it would be easy to find them in one place instead of stumbling onto them in all the different threads.

Joe

joecnc2006
02-23-2007, 10:09 AM
Ok, I guess i will start if off with just a brief list of mods to the machine.

1.) sanding the pipe rails. (this helps with smoothness and cuts on the machine)

2.) I added threaded rod through the sides of the gantry across the the Y-Axis. if i remember right they are 14.5" from the bottom. I also added threaded rod just above the Lower Gantry torsion box the rods go through the gantry sides and also through the X-Axis bearing adjustment box.

Jay "dighsx" added bed rail angle iron to the sides of his and also some straping at the bottom of the X-Axis bearing adjustment block. And he also added a spring loaded leadscrew tensioner. His website www.cncjay.com

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-366650611288533238

3.) bolt the machine down, like all other machines they should be very stable this will help with the jerking of the machine when motors shift travel directions.

Depdog
02-23-2007, 01:58 PM
Have you added, or thought about the 8 TPI ACME Leadscrews?

Seems like I saw you or someone posting about it in one of the threads. I have read so much I cant remember where it all is. Sent you an email the other day.

Thanks
Glenn

joecnc2006
02-23-2007, 02:20 PM
Have you added, or thought about the 8 TPI ACME Leadscrews?

Seems like I saw you or someone posting about it in one of the threads. I have read so much I cant remember where it all is. Sent you an email the other day.

Thanks
Glenn

Yes Rick used them on his machine 1/2-8 two start which gave him 4 turns per inch, the other day he was just testing the machine to see what it would jog at and got over 300ipm jogs. He also made his own anti-backlash based from mine.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23546

Joe

joecnc2006
04-08-2007, 07:20 PM
One thing you can do before painting the machine is after glueing all parts together as required, use a mixture of half wood glue and half water then brush all parts with a foam brush and solution, this makes a very good base coat and when you paint it the paint sticks good and also does not soak into the cut end pieces, if you have tried to spray paint the ends before you will notice it soaks up alot of paint, the wood glue mixture seals the MDF very well.

Joe

bp092
04-22-2007, 04:03 PM
Well I thought I might share some things. In another thread someone wanted more details or explanation of how the carpet tape is used in cutting parts. I like it because you don't have to worry about hitting screw heads but just remember to be liberal about it; you don't have to go crazy with the tape though. Before running the part, try wiggling it and moving it, if it moves at all DO not run the part, I've made that mistake. Take it out, put more tape or add a screw in opposite corners. Some materials it holds well, some not. HDPE seems to hold fairly well, as does solid woods, mdf and natural plywood.

http://www.vi01.com/cnc/mods/1.jpg

Start off applying it.

http://www.vi01.com/cnc/mods/2.jpg

Lay it down where you want it, I created a jig fixture by milling out two channels and using aluminum to create a removable fence. It works extremely well for parts you need to flip over and mill the other side. I had trouble with it in the past, but recently got it dead on; I just now design parts with the fence in it so that they all cut from the same home position in the program.

http://www.vi01.com/cnc/mods/3.jpg

You don't always have to, but I do most of the time anyways removing the alum just in case I do through cutting where I may hit it.

http://www.vi01.com/cnc/mods/4.jpg

Parts cut, everything held in place nicely. This is the bottom plate for joes new dc design and some other stuff I wanted to cut.

http://www.vi01.com/cnc/mods/5.jpg

Take the parts out, a little cleanup sometimes, mostly just static and you can vaccum them up and they are good to go.

bp092
04-22-2007, 04:06 PM
Also I had a problem with so much chips and dust getting on the bearings and rails so I was at home depot actually getting the plastic carpet runner material for the new dc housing and I saw these when they gave me the idea. They are just cheap vinyl toe kicks/base that are used in commercial rooms and sometimes cheap housing/apts. I think they are $3 for 4'. Screwed them in and they are working REALLY well. No chips on the rails now. If anyone does this remember to predrill every screw.

http://www.vi01.com/cnc/mods/6.jpg

http://www.vi01.com/cnc/mods/7.jpg

ccsparky
04-22-2007, 05:44 PM
Looks good Brian!

The jig is a pretty slick idea!
I can't believe how well the tape holds things in place. I'll have to try that some time!

Order that ATC yet? :)

Bob

bp092
04-22-2007, 06:03 PM
Looks good Brian!

The jig is a pretty slick idea!
I can't believe how well the tape holds things in place. I'll have to try that some time!

Order that ATC yet? :)

Bob


Sparky,

Ordered it the other day. Can't wait, so tired of having in consistent vcarving depths and having to reset everything all the time. Tape is good, just be careful, and test it with your own strength always before cutting. Cut anything lately?

ccsparky
04-22-2007, 06:15 PM
Sparky,

Ordered it the other day. Can't wait, so tired of having in consistent vcarving depths and having to reset everything all the time. Tape is good, just be careful, and test it with your own strength always before cutting. Cut anything lately?

It'll be nice, can't wait to see it in action!

No, I've just about finished the drawings for a gear driven dust collector attachment. I've got the gears and shaft. Will try to cut the parts this week.
It's designed it to work with the ATC and as drawn right now with a modification of Joe's original brush type DC collector. The idea is to get the DC raised so it will not interfere when replacing tools in the tool rack. (Which I still have to build also).
I've got to get back to my power supply / control cabinet so I can replace the Xylotex stuff and have the extra 269oz motor to try on the DC. Also will have to order another Gecko G203V to drive it.
Endless hours of fun!!! :)

bp092
04-22-2007, 06:44 PM
Sounds interesting, I would like to see it when it's done.. still my biggest goal is to eliminate the vibration, wish there was some other way to show you guys so that you could determine in your best view how I could fix it.

Buzz9075
04-22-2007, 07:58 PM
bp092 - do you have a thread where you have documented you vibration.... been working on my vibrations and so far I have them figured out, might be able to use my knowledge to point you in the right direction.

Buzz9075
04-22-2007, 08:00 PM
BP... thanks for the detailed story on using the tape... I picked some up on the weekend... but have not had a chance to do anything with it yet. I like your idea of the removable wall, i put one in but it is perminent I think I will delay it a little and implement your removable idea.

bp092
04-22-2007, 08:05 PM
Go for it, it's easy to use. If you need the acad file or gcode let me know. I just used an 1/8" spiral bit, milled out two 1/4" deep pockets in my spoil board and cut up some aluminum pieces from home depot and put them in. They should fit snug but be removable. There are a lot of ways to do it to make a jig or jigs if you're doing a lot of parts at the same time but this is what has been working for me. It's also great even if you only use one for finding that perfect parallel line on your machine.

bp092
04-22-2007, 08:07 PM
bp092 - do you have a thread where you have documented you vibration.... been working on my vibrations and so far I have them figured out, might be able to use my knowledge to point you in the right direction.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27561 The last few pages document it to my best ability. I would be thrilled to hear what you went through and how you rectified your problems. Anything you can share I would appreciate it, just post in my thread. Thank you! :)

Buzz9075
04-22-2007, 09:13 PM
Thanks, I was thing I would take a piece of 3/4" ply wood and cut through it and into the table at the same time. This would give me my 90D angle on the table and an edge to attach to. Then attach a 1/4" alluminum plate to the edges of the plywood so they will sit down into the table. I still have to make my sacraficial plate first.

Two things I really like about your idea.
1 - I only loose 1/8" machining area on the table from the 0,0 (half the width of the cutter). Before I woudl cut a 1" slot and put a piece of wood, this consumed 1/2" of the cutting area.
2 - Very temporary and VERY easy to remove. Before I would have to either cut into my edges or spend 5 minutes removing them.

bp092
04-22-2007, 10:30 PM
I hear yah. It's simple and effective. I'm working on a new fixture now with toggle clamps for production parts, quick release of sorts but still based on that concept of drawing the fence into every program of parts I design. Again I'm in no way educated in cnc programming or machining but this was the only way in my mind I could ever identify a common area where I would place objects/work pieces to be milled. I don't have home switches ATM or an accurate edge of the table to work off of like commercial machines.

PhillyCyberJoe
04-23-2007, 09:45 PM
Hey all,
Joe suggested that I put this painting tip up here.....

Instead of using lots o' spray cans for priming and painting Joe's 2006 machine, you might try using a small very fine foam roller. See pics below.
The nice thing about using the roller is that you can paint directly over holes and grooves that should NOT have paint in them and they will be perfectly clean after painting with no masking. Also, on many accounts in the forum, you'll read about all the spray cans that one goes through to get the thing primed. All of the parts shown below have had two coats of Kilz Odorless primer while only using 1/2 of a quart. The added bonus is that the roller leaves a very nice even coat that will be ready for paint. I picked up the Kilz at Lowes for about the same price as two cans of spray and the roller which is package with the tray was $1.98.

Joe

PhillyCyberJoe
05-04-2007, 04:39 PM
Actually, I was surprised to hear that a T-Nut is really not a nut at all!!!!! It's a piece of hardware.

Seriously, I'm a big fan of the T-nut but not as a mod for Joe's machine. I did try them on the kit and they were as tight as I could possible get them by using a bolt on the other side and tightening until they were flush with the surface. After assembling the Z axis assembly, the slightest little nudge had two of them popping right out with no resistance at all. It's probably because the kit was machined to accept a 5/16" nut which didn't leave much meat in the MDF to hold the T-Nut.

I went to Home Depot and picked up Insert Nuts, which are pictured below (sorry about the flash glare). These are HM (House Mates)1/4-20 X 20mm and the HD part number is 54454. These inserts have a flange on them and are screwed very snuggly into an 11/32" hole with a hex wrench. There is no way these guys are coming out, unless you purposely unscrew them. They seem to hold MUCH better and so I thought I would leave this info here in the mods section for all you new builders.

Have fun,
Joe

calgrdnr
05-04-2007, 07:45 PM
Thanks PhillyCyberJoe,
I ran across this link http://www.profhdwr.com/55008.htmin my favorites. I had forgoten about it. Price looks real resonable. I was thinking of attaching spoil board with them. were you able to get yours flush ?

Edit : I went to the above link to order the product. But there site wanted me to turn off firewall to let shopping cart work .I have run across this numerous times before. I just relax my settings in my firewall to enable pop-ups and cookies. This site still would not let me order / access shopping cart even after doing this. I am not comfortable with this arrangement so please Order at Your Own Risk. I did send a emiail to them asking why the above procedure did not work. I will keep you posted.

Buzz9075
05-04-2007, 08:41 PM
Joe when I put in the T nuts I figure that it would be easy for them to come out and a TON of work to get back in if I need to. So I put a 1/4 board behind the T nuts so that they could not fall out. This all fit fine in the space provided from the 1/4 threads that go through.

bp092
05-04-2007, 09:29 PM
anyone on joe's build with the industrial tool changer from hts consider moving their router holder position on the z slide? I was installing it tonight and realized how many inches are lost on the z axis with it. Maybe I'm wrong but it might be possible to move it up more, but the bolts may get in the way. Also anyone have any trouble centering the adapter & tool changer in the router? I used teflon tape as advised but having a little trouble as it isn't spinning on 100% center; it's a bit off. Thanks.

PhillyCyberJoe
05-04-2007, 09:53 PM
Thanks PhillyCyberJoe,
I ran across this link http://www.profhdwr.com/55008.htmin my favorites. I had forgoten about it. Price looks real resonable. I was thinking of attaching spoil board with them. were you able to get yours flush ?.

calgrdnr,
I think using the insert nuts for the spoil board is a great idea, however, you probably would want to use the kind that DON'T have the flange. That way they would sit flush. Otherwise, you would have to countersink for the kind with the flange. In my case for the bearing adjustment, they don't have to be flush.

Joe

PhillyCyberJoe
05-04-2007, 10:02 PM
Joe when I put in the T nuts I figure that it would be easy for them to come out and a TON of work to get back in if I need to. So I put a 1/4 board behind the T nuts so that they could not fall out. This all fit fine in the space provided from the 1/4 threads that go through.

Buzz,
As I read your reply, I do remember you saying that you backed up the T-nuts with 1/4 board. I think you hit the nail on the head when you say that it's a ton of work IF they should come off. I just felt more comfortable knowing that I can see that the nuts are not coming loose.

Also, as I recall you redid your Z axis assembly and did not cut out the 5/16 hex nut indentation. That alone might make all the difference in the world for using the T-Nut. The spikes have a lot more MDF to bite into. Plus, with the reinforcement, I'm sure you'll be okay. BTW.....your build log is absolutely outstanding. I learned a lot from your pictures and descriptions. Thanks

the "other" Joe

joecnc2006
05-04-2007, 10:09 PM
I am right in the middle of changing over my leadscrews to 1/2-8 2 start acme and using Dumpsters Anti Backlash nuts. Here is the V-Carve file if someone needs it or wants to look it over, you can even open it in the demo version i think. also attached is the dxf file.

I have finished the Z and Y Axis already and finishing the X-Axis now.

So far over 250ipm rapids ( very smooth) at 1/8 micosteps i will use 1/2 and compare also later on.

Joe

Buzz9075
05-04-2007, 11:29 PM
Thanks The other "joe" glad my worked helped you.

I never did implement the second carrage I fixed my problem with screws... but I do have a full caragge assembled and a coat of paint on it ready to go if it comes apart again...

joecnc2006
05-05-2007, 12:06 AM
Here is a shot of the Delrin Anti-Whip block i will use just to have it on there, i did not try it on the regular leadscrew but will add it on the new ones, it will be placed on other side ot the gantry lower torsion box.

Also Here are some Very inexpensice clamps, using 1/4" bolts, washer and nut, on a t-track, and for the clamp i am using the anles from the Electrical struts from the elec. det. at homedepot they run about 1.50 each, a very cheap solution, they also have some with two holes on each side which can be cut down on one and used to extend reach.

Joe

Edit: replaced picture which has flash on.

Buzz9075
05-05-2007, 07:30 AM
Similiar idea as I had with the anti whip block only I put a bearing in it so that I could have a close fit and not have to worry about wear. I have this on both the X and Y axis of my machine.... while it does not remove all the whip it significantly reduced it (almost to none).

joecnc2006
05-05-2007, 02:08 PM
Here is the 1/2-10 i removed from the x-axis, as you can see after a year and half, the nuts and leadscrew still look good, the key is to make sure you always have it lubed.

joecnc2006
05-05-2007, 02:18 PM
Here is the Z-Axis with the Dumpster Anti-backlash, and the Y-Axis with it and also a shot of a compression spring to keep tension.

Joe

bp092
05-05-2007, 02:23 PM
Joe it's looking awesome. I'm ready to go ahead and make the switch. I think maybe just taking everything apart and trying something new might just make the vibration stop, and hopefully these new dumpster stuff and rods will do the trick.

joecnc2006
05-05-2007, 02:28 PM
As steve mentioned and what i experianced is that the Lead screw was just ever so slightly larger than the bearings so i mad my own lathe so to speak as steve did, and used a fine file to run it back and forth where the bearings will go. Here are pictures of mine and also the harber freight 26 dollar drill i picked up yesterday (local). variable speed 1/2" drill very good price for what i wanted it for. Also has a locking triger.

Joe

biotech1
05-05-2007, 07:35 PM
I have awhile before I get my kit from joe so would it be best for me to upgrade to the 1/2-8 2 start I got the xylotex 425oz-in motrs or would the 1/2-10 2 start be ok.

rdhharm
05-06-2007, 07:57 AM
This is a modification that I did to help with the vibration that I had. I made new bearing blocks for the X & Y axis and it helped the X about 95% and the Y 100%. I used the anti-backlash block with a bearing cut instead of the nut.

Rick

Buzz9075
05-06-2007, 08:26 AM
To remove the requirement for the alluminum plate I turned the bearing block around to face the side. Appears to work OK so far for me.

bp092
05-06-2007, 05:20 PM
Just to clarify as I'm about to purchase the new rods and parts:

(1) - Acme rod - MSC #: 01205996 - Precision Acme Threaded Bars Thread Size: 1/2-8 Rotation: Right Hand Length: 6 Length: 72 Material: Alloy Steel - B-7 Number Starts: 2

(2) - Anti Backlash leadnuts - 1/2"-8 ACME 2 Start (4 turns per inch) (dumpster cnc)

http://dumpstercnc.com/leadnuts_flanges.html Which of those two flanges are you guys using, I saw you use square ones but didn't know which one exactly?

Lastly I also saw joe use thread clamps and heard others were doing it as well. DTC12082A ACME Size: 1/2-8 (2 Start) - 4 turns per inch <-- I believe that's the one but where did you pick up the springs used in the photo above.

Thanks!

(note: I'm only ordering one rod for now to make enough for the z & y as joe did to see how things go because the rods are a bit pricier.)

joecnc2006
05-06-2007, 06:46 PM
DumpsterCNC parts needed:

three each all 1/2"-8 ACME 2 Start (4 turns per inch)

http://www.dumpstercnc.com/leadnuts_acme.html
http://www.dumpstercnc.com/leadnuts_flanges.html
Add a 1-3/16" machined square flange with (4) .144 dia clearance holes.

http://www.dumpstercnc.com/thread_clamps.html

Joe

bp092
05-06-2007, 07:08 PM
Thanks joe, will buy tonight and post results later this week.

silver4dracs
05-06-2007, 08:15 PM
Well I am making the plunge to the new screws. I just ordered everything and will post results.

bp092
05-06-2007, 10:40 PM
silver, likewise, glad so many people are making the jump, that way there are more people testing the newer stuff and if all goes well joe can point people in that direction for this model 06 machine in the future..

sdantonio
05-07-2007, 12:54 PM
The router support rear plate and the plate it mates to (the one that the u-bolts attach to), has anyone tried making these out of 3/4 aluminum or at least running a 3/4X3/4 steel angle piece along the verticle edges of the router support plate. There seems to be a little flex in mine (mine is currently MDF).

bp092
05-07-2007, 04:30 PM
There shouldn't be any flex to them and they certainly shouldnt be warped. The bearing block one (the slide assem) should be made out of hdpe and the angled aluminum for the bearings should keep it pretty straight. The router holder is mdf and may be somewhat flexible since it is supported at the top but not too bad. Have a photo of them? Pref. side view.

joecnc2006
05-07-2007, 05:06 PM
you could add some 1.5"x1.5" alumn. angle just behind the router rear plate and bolt it into place, then drill some holes that go through router side mounts. from top to bottom, this will significantly reinforce it, if you like i can add some when i get a chance and post results. I know Rick was having some people cut his out of alumn. not sure if he finished that mod or not.

Joe

sdantonio
05-07-2007, 09:31 PM
you could add some 1.5"x1.5" alumn. angle just behind the router rear plate and bolt it into place, then drill some holes that go through router side mounts. from top to bottom, this will significantly reinforce it, if you like i can add some when i get a chance and post results. I know Rick was having some people cut his out of alumn. not sure if he finished that mod or not.

Joe

Exactly what I was thinking but probably stated poorly. I did tak a close look at things and found my problem was that one of the u-bolts has loosened up a bit.

joecnc2006
05-07-2007, 10:28 PM
i was very surprised to see mine had not loosened at all, infact when i reinstalled it i lifted it up and it stayed inplace by itself just as it was installed 1 and a half year ago.

I even snaped a picture of it when i reinstalled the z-axis, this is without adjusting the lock nuts at all.

I wonder if yours loosened up due to slight compression of the MDF.

Joe

sdantonio
05-08-2007, 07:46 AM
[QUOTE=joe2000che;294888I wonder if yours loosened up due to slight compression of the MDF.

Joe[/QUOTE]

Could be, or it could be that I was just to concerned about tightening it just enough and not to much that it didn't tighten it quite enough in the first place.

gacrwell
05-08-2007, 03:29 PM
In the attached spreadsheet file I've taken a first cut at compiling a complete parts list, including mods, add-on's, and alternate sources and components, including links where I could.

I'm hoping that you guys will download it, add to it for your choices of materials and sources, and upload it back to this thread, so we can keep a single complete and up-to-date list.

After looking at all of this stuff in one place, I think I'd like to change my entry in the 'approximate cost' poll - it sure adds up.

The lines in the spreadsheet that have been colored, are alternates for the same component.

Gary

edit: I notice a couple of errors already, only (6) (or 8, with added bearing blocks) of the large bearings are needed, and, I'd forgotten the vinyl hose. I'll update that later - there's lots more that could be added.

sdantonio
05-08-2007, 04:00 PM
In the attached spreadsheet file I've taken a first cut at compiling a complete parts list, including mods, add-on's, and alternate sources and components, including links where I could.

I'm hoping that you guys will download it, add to it for your choices of materials and sources, and upload it back to this thread, so we can keep a single complete and up-to-date list.

After looking at all of this stuff in one place, I think I'd like to change my entry in the 'approximate cost' poll - it sure adds up.

The lines in the spreadsheet that have been colored, are alternates for the same component.

Gary

Wow, Gary, nice job. I whish I had that when I started building mine.

joecnc2006
05-08-2007, 04:22 PM
Very Nice Gary, as more mods are done, this ongoing addition list will be very helpful to others in the future as well as existing machines.

Joe

bp092
05-08-2007, 08:51 PM
Awesome work on the list. I highly recommend boltdepot ordering from them several times. When I started joe's design I was at home depot nit picking through the isles getting the stuff and dropped it and said it wasn't worth it. There is a ton of individual specific stuff, easier IMO to do online and with BD it's cheaper and faster and you will get better stuff. Plus I don't think HD carries full thread bolts anymore. At least not around here..

Buzz9075
05-10-2007, 06:50 AM
Gary in your spread sheet the part number you have listes for the 4140 1/2-8 acme is for a 3' length. I think you mean part number 98940a105.

biotech1
05-10-2007, 06:38 PM
Awesome work on the list. I highly recommend boltdepot ordering from them several times. When I started joe's design I was at home depot nit picking through the isles getting the stuff and dropped it and said it wasn't worth it. There is a ton of individual specific stuff, easier IMO to do online and with BD it's cheaper and faster and you will get better stuff. Plus I don't think HD carries full thread bolts anymore. At least not around here..

You might try a tractor supply if you live near one ?? your right homedepot, or lowes for that matter are getting cheap

bp092
05-10-2007, 08:09 PM
You might try a tractor supply if you live near one ?? your right homedepot, or lowes for that matter are getting cheap

Nothing very close but still, you won't get retail prices cheaper than bolt depot usually and the convenience cannot be matched. I just like how they label everything in individual boxes and bags and everything is tidy. It helps a lot when you have to build something like joe's 06 that has a billion nuts and bolts. Also sometimes its more economical to upgrade to 100 boxes and they aren't a whole lot more. Home depot or any home center to me is a headache; you can bring a list but you leave with a ringing in your ear from incompetent employees screaming over the loud speaker and rude people getting in your way. :) Plus I work a bit so I don't have a lot of free time; best spent just getting right down to the nitty gritty instead of fighting seniors at hd! :rainfro:

daltonjl
05-11-2007, 07:41 AM
DumpsterCNC parts needed:

three each all 1/2"-8 ACME 2 Start (4 turns per inch)

http://www.dumpstercnc.com/leadnuts_acme.html
http://www.dumpstercnc.com/leadnuts_flanges.html
Add a 1-3/16" machined square flange with (4) .144 dia clearance holes.

http://www.dumpstercnc.com/thread_clamps.html

Joe

Joe,
I am going to have to switch my lead screws also due to excessive whip, so I am watching what you are doing closely and have a few questions. You stated only 3 thread clamps were needed. Are you not using them on both ends of the rod? And if not, what are you using on the motor side? What source did you use for your spring and did you drill the nut out to use it as a washer in the picture of your preload setup that you posted? Hope this is not too many questions at one time. Thanks for all your help.

gacrwell
05-11-2007, 03:22 PM
Gary in your spread sheet the part number you have listes for the 4140 1/2-8 acme is for a 3' length. I think you mean part number 98940a105.

Thanks, I've corrected that and a couple of other part numbers - those critical corrections are shown in red. I've also added sources, part numbers and links for quite a few other items. Please - Please, correct me if you find anything wrong, or if you have any additions or suggestions; reply here or PM.

Thanks, Gary

gacrwell
05-11-2007, 03:28 PM
...What source did you use for your spring ....

I added a McMaster spring to the parts list, but I'm only guessing if it's appropriate, 1/2" ID, 2" long; mcmaster # 9573K52.

Gary

travisc
05-11-2007, 03:36 PM
I am not sure if this has been posted before, but I work in a woodworking plant as a drafter and we received a sample box of some new MDf that is in differnt colors, so you now do not have to have your CNC in that tan color.
It is made by Great Lakes MDf and is called Spectratech colorMDF
www.greatlakesmdf.com

I plan on building Joe's CNC as soon as I buy a house, so I will have somewhere to put it.

Buzz9075
05-11-2007, 05:49 PM
A warning for Canadians only after you place your order will you get a call back from McMaster Carr indicating they will not ship to Canada. NOT IMPRESSED!!!!!

bp092
05-12-2007, 01:38 PM
guys I just mounted up some hpde and want to program all the parts I need cut now before I take the machine apart, anyone have the file or drawing (acad pref) for the bearing block (hdpe) inside the gantry carriage on the back that some of you added as a support for the rod. The same one I've seen one of you add alum to the back of to hold the bearing in. I will just flip mine around though.

bp092
05-12-2007, 02:23 PM
also one more question, I'm getting that nerve racking high pitched sound from cutting 3/4 hdpe again with a 1/4" upspiral. Using a 3/8" as ger suggested awhile back eliminated that but with these parts its best to use a 1/4" bit. I'm cutting at around 40 IPM (taking it slow to just get these parts done w/ no problems before I upgrade) and the hitachi router set around 2 to 2 and a half. Any suggestions?

Buzz9075
05-12-2007, 07:44 PM
I think this is what you want. This worked for my new bearings anyway. You don't need to machine the two holes at .2D Marked with T.

bp092
05-12-2007, 07:59 PM
Buzz thanks, I figured it out being eager to get this machine taken apart this weekend. Appreciate the file though, will be helpful for others.

rdhharm
05-12-2007, 09:11 PM
This is the one that I used in V-carve.

Rick

joecnc2006
05-13-2007, 05:17 PM
Some have asked for a picture of the motor side of the Axis, Here is the X-Axis setup. Note: the standard 1/2" nut all i did was drill out the threads on the drill press to 1/2" to use them as spacers against the center race of the bearings.

Joe

bp092
05-13-2007, 06:18 PM
Thanks for the pics joe, it helps a lot and is clearer than even paragraphs of explanations.

daltonjl
05-13-2007, 09:08 PM
Thanks Joe. This answers a lot of my questions. I had used washers on each end of the spring which were a little larger than the bearings and this caused enough friction to keep the motor from moving the lead screw. I will have to try your way. One other thing, approximately how much compression are you putting on the spring for the preload?

joecnc2006
05-13-2007, 11:52 PM
not a whole lot of pressure, it is just enough to compress the spring by hand and this will not let the leadscrew move around. you can twist the dumpster clamps by hand then clamp it down. Make sure as Tim suggest on his site not to over tighten the clamps, they grip really well to the threads.

Joe

bp092
05-14-2007, 08:18 PM
Got the y axis assembled w/ the spring and new stuff. I ended up using a metal washer in between the dumpster clamp and the spring because it was grinding into it and didn't want to damage it after heavy usage. Anyhow, what settings would you recommend changing in mach3? Should I adjust the microstepping? Currently I have it on 8000 steps per and the jumpers on ms1 & enab on my xylotex board which I believe is quarter step. Otherwise I'm ready to fire it up and see what happens!

bp092
05-14-2007, 08:47 PM
well I gave it a shot at 16000 and 1/8th, was anxious, holy cow, 100IPM sounds so quiet, before it sounded horrible. It's stalling a lot on one side and anything higher than that. I'm not sure if its binding in the bearings or not, it may still be tight a bit in some areas and I will now use the router as a jig to grind things down :).

Buzz9075
05-16-2007, 07:08 AM
If you are getting stalling as you approach an edge/bearing I usually fine this is because the bearing is not aligned to the lead screw. You could adjust now or wait till you have done your alignment as each time you realign your machine you will change the center location for the bearing.

joecnc2006
05-16-2007, 09:00 AM
If you are getting stalling as you approach an edge/bearing I usually fine this is because the bearing is not aligned to the lead screw. You could adjust now or wait till you have done your alignment as each time you realign your machine you will change the center location for the bearing.

This is correct, because this is a DIY so to speak machine, the way it is bolted together, the way the bearing slides are made, different manufatures or bolts etc. will always give a slight variation in the perfect alignment.

What you can do is for the holes in the router end (the 4 around the Leadscrew hole) drill those out say to start with 5/16" or slightly bigger, move the gantry to the end and then tighten doen the HDPE bearing block. this will center the leadscrew/bearing to the actual gantry. You can also do this with the Y-Axis.

Joe

bp092
05-16-2007, 05:58 PM
Joe thanks for the advice. I may try it. Much of the problems I've had in adjusting in the past and now I believe is due to the shotty job I did with the angle/bearing mounts. I did the best I could with a drill press, a mill would have been better and next time if I build a bigger machine I will use my router to cut a jig and or template for drilling the holes so that everything is within a 32nd" of an inch. Do you think it may have any negative affects to move that rod? From what you and buzz mentioned and from what I understood; you're loosening up the bearing block (hdpe) so that you can bolt it to the gantry side precisely where it will be center? I had the carriage perfect, I mean dead on and the lead rod directly in that hole. The problem was that two of the lower left bearings weren't contacting, giving the ability to literally lift the carriage up on one side. I tightened the adjustment bolts on the top as minimal as I could, it probably was just enough to set the acme screw off center from the hole. Anyhow, will try it tonight; any other suggestions are welcome.. I'm all ears. Can't wait though to put in the rest of the stuff as I ordered more dumpster clamps and one more ab nut for the x.

technomage
05-16-2007, 08:02 PM
Hope this the correct place to post this?
It seems like a common problem on a Joes Machine is the condition of the pipes used for the rails. They are either dinged,gouged by the jaws of the pipe machine used to cut them or have uneven,rough paint or galvanizing.
So they need to be smoothed up before use.
Now to get to the point, hidden in home Depot is chrome closet rod !! Home depot carries it its just not in any place you would expect to find it they seem to hide it in a differant place in each store its smooth as a babys bottom strong enough to hold up a full wardrobe of your average "I don't have a thing to Wear" princess comes in lengths of up to 8 feet sure its a couple of pennys more but its ready to go no gouges ,dings bends etc I work with pipe and thats what I would use for round rod bearing setup the main name I see is "lido designs" may be others

8' CHROME CLOSET ROD $37.99
Lido Designs Model: LB-10-A106/8

here is a link to a online source.
http://doitbest.com/Main.aspx?PageID=64&SKU=257273

The reason I posted here is it 1 5/16" in dia so the machine would have to modified to accomodate it. They also have telescoping sections of smaller diameter. They are quite strong and when you figure in your labor reasonibly priced

bp092
05-16-2007, 08:10 PM
Those closet rods are nice, smooth and strong but I would be curious to joes opinion on long term strength of them with bearings putting so much pressure on the rods. Some of the members here have chucked gas pipe (suggested for the build for reasons of strength) on a lathe and polished them down. I did mine by hand but still there are bumps in some places that can't be avoided. I don't believe it makes the machine rock at all or change the position of the router. If there were only 2 bearings one on top and one on bottom probably but there is so much surface area that each angle rides on I haven't found it to be a big issue. Anyhow, joe's opinion would be interesting, he is after all the chief honcho on this topic.

bp092
05-17-2007, 08:34 PM
Not fully sure if anyone is using any jigs or work holders and I'm fairly sure most of you haven't added a vacuum system to joes table but heres a cool video I just came across showing a fundamental example of utilizing the machine to create a work fixture for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URERrJ6wgnM&mode=related&search=

For me one of the hardest things to grasp and also one of the coolest things to figure out was how to machine two sides to a part and line up perfectly on both sides. The best and simplest method for me so far as I've shown in pictures is to mill out channels and use aluminum angle or small rips of alum sheet to sit in there and once screwed down you can remove them so you don't risk hitting them when cutting/carving. In this video he milled out sections on his spoil sheet. One to pocket out a section of the back for the clock works, and then the second part he flipped it over and fit that into the reverse of that pocket perfectly. Milling into the spoil board for this kind of stuff is always interesting, programmers and operators all seem to have different ways about it. That's why I always remind myself that the machine is so fundamentally simple but unless you are creative enough to know how to use it, you're going to be limited by lack of creativity.

Now.. if only I could afford a vacuum pump it would make my life a lot easier! BTW google video/youtube has an immense amount of videos on cnc routers. Great info, cool videos I'm sure you've all ventured on. Thought this video might be of some insight to joe06 owners, as it has been for me.

joecnc2006
05-17-2007, 10:05 PM
Hope this the correct place to post this?
It seems like a common problem on a Joes Machine is the condition of the pipes used for the rails. They are either dinged,gouged by the jaws of the pipe machine used to cut them or have uneven,rough paint or galvanizing.
So they need to be smoothed up before use.
Now to get to the point, hidden in home Depot is chrome closet rod !! Home depot carries it its just not in any place you would expect to find it they seem to hide it in a differant place in each store its smooth as a babys bottom strong enough to hold up a full wardrobe of your average "I don't have a thing to Wear" princess comes in lengths of up to 8 feet sure its a couple of pennys more but its ready to go no gouges ,dings bends etc I work with pipe and thats what I would use for round rod bearing setup the main name I see is "lido designs" may be others

8' CHROME CLOSET ROD $37.99
Lido Designs Model: LB-10-A106/8

here is a link to a online source.
http://doitbest.com/Main.aspx?PageID=64&SKU=257273

The reason I posted here is it 1 5/16" in dia so the machine would have to modified to accomodate it. They also have telescoping sections of smaller diameter. They are quite strong and when you figure in your labor reasonibly priced

I would lean on not getting the crome closet rods, with the bearings rolling on them the crome might flake and be a rougher surface in the future than the pipe that has been sanded. And is the wall thickness less?

Joe

trajan
05-20-2007, 06:22 PM
Hi Joe, this is my first on line post relating to my build of the Joe's CNCRouter 2006. I have purchased many of the required parts and started a BLOG
http://www.dickshouse.net/wordpress
of my efforts. I have completed all of the bearing slides and tested them on the 3/4" drill rod. I have not purchased the 1" diameter pipe yet to measure the OD and test the X-Axis bearing slides. Apparently there are issues with obtaining clean, straight, unmarred pipe. I will try a large pipe supply company in Tacoma and purchase two 20 foot lengths that I can cut to size and clean up in my lathe.

I noticed when testing the bearing slides that the Y-Axis bearing slide using your recommended bolting arrangement in the manual called for a lock washer. This seemed to place the contact point of the drill rod on the bearing contact surface at the edge of the bearing. Because the bearings had play in them out of the box this seemed a bad location. As a result I started up AUTOCAD, got samples of all the components, my micrometer, and drew two cross sections, attached, showing the contact points for the 3/4" drill rod on the bearings. The Z-Axis bearing slides are not too bad but the Y-Axis bearing slide seems way to close to the edge of the bearing. I am inclined to change the Y-Axis bolting to match the Z-Axis so that the contact point on the bearings is closer to the center of the bearing contact surface.

Since I do not have the parts from you yet for the router, I would appreciate you opinion of making this change to the Y-Axis bolting to match the Z-Axis. Will this change any thing during assembly of the router? Is there enough adjustment and room to make this change without affecting the accuracy of the router?

gacrwell
05-21-2007, 03:40 PM
...I noticed when testing the bearing slides that the Y-Axis bearing slide using your recommended bolting arrangement in the manual called for a lock washer. This seemed to place the contact point of the drill rod on the bearing contact surface at the edge of the bearing. Because the bearings had play in them out of the box this seemed a bad location. As a result I started up AUTOCAD, got samples of all the components, my micrometer, and drew two cross sections, attached, showing the contact points for the 3/4" drill rod on the bearings. The Z-Axis bearing slides are not too bad but the Y-Axis bearing slide seems way to close to the edge of the bearing. ...?

From your drawing, you're using 3/4" as the OD of the Y-axis rod - in pipe terminology, the 3/4" is the ID. Don't recall the exact OD, but it should center up the contact points nicely. [edit - 1.05" OD]

For the Z-axis drill rod, 3/4" is the OD.

Gary

joecnc2006
05-21-2007, 03:47 PM
Gary is correct you need to consider the wall thickness, i'm kinda sure the setup mentioned is what works, i will count what i have on mine, you can also see them in pictures that others as well as myself have.

Joe

trajan
05-21-2007, 04:16 PM
I assumed that you used 3/4" drill rod (solid) for the Y and Z axis. I have purchased that and not 3/4" pipe. Did I make a mistake?

R

bp092
05-21-2007, 05:17 PM
Only solid drill rod for the z axis; we are all using gas pipe from HD for the rest. You will see better results if you polish them, and people like sparky did a great job chucking them up on a lathe and polishing them to be very shiny.

trajan
05-21-2007, 05:45 PM
Will 3/4" drill rod work for the Y axis? Or will Joe have to revise the cutouts to accept 3/4" drill rod for the Y axis?

Richard

bp092
05-21-2007, 05:47 PM
You would have to revise all of the cutouts and the bearings might be different. Joe could comment on it more. Can't you return the extra drill rod if you haven't cut into it yet?

trajan
05-21-2007, 06:11 PM
Joe, when you cut my gantry sides, can you make the pipe cutouts exactly 3/4" to match the 3/4" drill rod for the Y axis? This really gets to be a pain in the Butt doesn't it. Also I have purchased the Dumpster 1/2"-8 2-start nuts and previously asked if you would provide the nut holders machined to accept the Dumpster flange you recommended (1-3/16" square flange) and I never heard back from you.

trajan
05-21-2007, 08:53 PM
All, I looked up the OD of 3/4" BSP and found it to be 1.05". The 1" OD is 1.315". I created a new drawing that shows the contact point using BSP for both the X and Y Axis.

Joe, forget revising the Gantry Sides. I will purchase 3/4" BSP and polish it as suggested in the forums. I have a lathe that will allow me to do that. That is my task for this weekend. I will purchase the 1" and 3/4" BSP so I am ready when the parts package arrives.

Thanks all for the sharp review of my uploads. Attached is the revised detail showing the contact points using the OD of the BSP. The contact point is acceptable for the Y Axis using the 3/4" BSP. The contact point for the X Axis is ideal.

I have updated my Blog at
http://www.dickshouse.net/wordpress

Richard

gacrwell
05-24-2007, 03:54 PM
Added a bunch of links, additional materials and sources. Note that it's divided into a half-dozen separate pages.

Gary

ClaudioG
06-02-2007, 05:40 PM
Added a bunch of links, additional materials and sources. Note that it's divided into a half-dozen separate pages.

Gary

Gary,

You've put together an excellent list there which is coming in very handy. I'm in the USA in a few weeks and am trying to pre-order some of the harder to get items and bring them back to Australia with me so this makes life a lot easier for me.

By the way, does anyone have a rough idea of the boxed dimensions and weight of the 2 x 6ft ACME thread from MSC. They appear to currently be out of stock though so hopefully that will be sorted soon.

Thanks,

Claudio

trajan
06-04-2007, 07:01 PM
Gary, I have added some items that I have purchased for my Joe's 2006. Hope to get my kit soon. I have gone a more expensive route than some. This is based on problems that others have described on line. More money will sometimes solve the problem. We will see. My list is single page and easy to pick out. My edits are all in RED. As the keeper of the list, please incorporate them as you see fit. Also included is a PDF of a 35 VDC unregulated power supply that matches the models numbers in the power supply portion of the RED additions.

Richard

sdantonio
06-06-2007, 10:00 AM
OK, this is one of the things I did. I expanded the thickness of the gantry lower tortion gos by 1/2 inch. this allows me to move the lower two screw holes down lower which gets them completely out of the way of the lead screw. (of course the gantry sides also have to be modified a bit too).

The idea being, when you initially set up the system you have 1/4-20 bolts running through the sides holding the gantry together. Once it is assembled and set up properly the 8 upper tortion box bolts were replaces with 1/4-20 threaded rod. In this adaption the two lower sets of bolts for the lower tortion box are also replaced with threaded rod.

Combined with Jay's angle iron bracing of the gantry sides this makes for a pretty ridged structure.

A lot of people have added extra threaded rods to the gantry with lots of pics and descriptions posted, but I haven't seem anyone post dxf files of their adaptions. Hopefully I'm not just duplicating others posts here.

Note also, now the lower tortion box hangs down lower and the front and back of the cutting table may have to be shimmed up if you want to sit the whole machine on a table like Jay did.

gacrwell
06-06-2007, 02:45 PM
Gary, I have added some items that I have purchased for my Joe's 2006. ...Richard

Very good additions - perfectly usable as-is, but I'll merge them into my latest the next time I make an update.

Anyone else have anything to add?

Thanks,

Gary

gacrwell
06-06-2007, 02:46 PM
Gary,

You've put together an excellent list there which is coming in very handy. I'm in the USA in a few weeks and am trying to pre-order some of the harder to get items and bring them back to Australia with me so this makes life a lot easier for me.

Thanks,

Claudio


I'd sure hate to be paying your return luggage overweight charges...

Gary

ClaudioG
06-06-2007, 04:06 PM
I'd sure hate to be paying your return luggage overweight charges...

Gary

Any donation, no matter how big or small, to my Paypal account would be welcome ;)

I'm trying to keep the weight under control so a 100 lb Joes kit is definitely out of the question, but am thinking the 1/2-8 2 Start lead screws from MSC, the dumpster gear, Lovejoy couplers, t-slot kit from Rockler, a Hitachi M12VC router and an assortment of mills.

Claudio

bp092
06-06-2007, 06:29 PM
I'd sure hate to be paying your return luggage overweight charges...

Gary

just got back from a vacation in europe, the max weight was 50 pounds per bag and it started at somewhere around $100 for anything over and incrementally figured in to some crazy fee structure. I was only a few ounces under having to pay. But it isn't a bad idea if you pack light!

bp092
06-06-2007, 06:32 PM
Any donation, no matter how big or small, to my Paypal account would be welcome ;)

I'm trying to keep the weight under control so a 100 lb Joes kit is definitely out of the question, but am thinking the 1/2-8 2 Start lead screws from MSC, the dumpster gear, Lovejoy couplers, t-slot kit from Rockler, a Hitachi M12VC router and an assortment of mills.

Claudio

Very smart idea. How much does shipping usually run you? I shipped some stuff back from Europe fedex 3 day and it was around 5 pounds and ran me $12 and change which I thought wasn't that bad. Maybe Australia is different.. btw met a few aussies out there, friendliest of people I met there.

Buzz9075
06-06-2007, 07:10 PM
I would also think about the 6' lead screw as they might treat that as an extra baggage. I know when I travel that would be consider and strange item and i would be dinged for. One way around it might be check and see if you had skis would they permit the sports bag for no extra cost. If so bring some ski and return with the lead screw attached to the side of them :) This is what I do when I travel to Cuba... anything that is sports is in my sports bag and I am allowed one sports bag.

john

ClaudioG
06-06-2007, 07:59 PM
Very smart idea. How much does shipping usually run you? I shipped some stuff back from Europe fedex 3 day and it was around 5 pounds and ran me $12 and change which I thought wasn't that bad. Maybe Australia is different.. btw met a few aussies out there, friendliest of people I met there.

bp, Shipping is very expensive to Australia and not many suppliers will do it. It's about US$650 to ship a Joes kit out here, which is about the worst example cost wise I can give.

$12 from Europe seems very cheap. Do you have a Fedex account as I just used their web site to get a quote and it came out to around $90 from London for a 5 lb package.

Most of us a very friendly, must have something to do with the weather and clean air over here.

By the way, coincidently I was reading your build log when you sent this post through. Looks great.

Claudio

ClaudioG
06-06-2007, 08:05 PM
I would also think about the 6' lead screw as they might treat that as an extra baggage. I know when I travel that would be consider and strange item and i would be dinged for. One way around it might be check and see if you had skis would they permit the sports bag for no extra cost. If so bring some ski and return with the lead screw attached to the side of them :) This is what I do when I travel to Cuba... anything that is sports is in my sports bag and I am allowed one sports bag.

john

Hi John,

I am undecided about the lead screws for that very reason. I'll try and check with my airline before I comit. Any idea roughly how much ACME lead screws weigh per foot?

Might have to look into the sporting goods option but carrying skis with me might be more hassle than it's worth. Thanks for the tip though.

Claudio

bp092
06-06-2007, 08:07 PM
claudio, I did it through the hotel, but even the local mail boxes was around that, 12-20 euros. I was surprised, but with volume all of those major shippers give incredible discounts. I have a fedex account as well but I would probably get the same rate as you are saying. That's some serious cash to get it to Australia! It is heavy, but I would imagine you should be able to get some better rates if shipped by sea.

Buzz9075
06-06-2007, 11:03 PM
Sorry I don't know the weight of the screws. Honestly I think the piece of wood they are strapped to weights more than the lead screws. Basically when I got mine I got a 1 * 4 with the screws wrapped to it... but I did not get mine from MSC.

ClaudioG
06-15-2007, 08:28 AM
Well I made it to the USA after a very long flight. Checked with the airline (Air NZ) and I should be able to bring back the lead screws and I get a 50lb per piece, 2 piece limit. I'm travelling with my girlfriend so as long as I can keep her shopping under control then I'll be fully loaded going back home!

So I'll be ordering the 1/2-8 2 Start from MSC, dumpster stuff, rockler t-track stuff, some mills, a Hitachi router, enco bearings, lovejoy couplers.

Any other suggestions while I'm here?

Thanks,

Claudio

erebus
06-15-2007, 10:55 AM
I am unsure of the international rate, but if you need enough stuff it might be worthwhile looking into the extra bag fee. For domestic flights it's usually around 25-50 dollars so guessing 75-100 for international.

ClaudioG
06-15-2007, 12:23 PM
My apologies to Joe and others for highjacking this excellent thread which was meant to be focussed on mods.

So I've decided now is a good time to start my build log which can be found here;

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39051

By the way, thanks for the tip erebus.

Claudio

CNC-Joe
06-23-2007, 09:47 AM
Hi Group,

Well, my Joe2006 is up and operational. I had to stop re-engineering parts of it to get it finished - but it is a great machine, and my hat is off to JoeChevy for the design and posting it on the internet for the rest of us to have. Thank You! .
.
After completing my machine, I noticed a bit of whip in the X axis (long axis) especially. I looked at what everyone had out there, including my friend and fellow CNC addicted buddy CNC-Jay (admit it Jay - we are both way past the addiction stage, said the guy with the CNC Mills (plural), lathe, and now the Gantry Router)....but noticed some short comings in all the set ups.
.
What you want to accomplish: Put the leadscrew in tension, via the inner race of the bearing. Putting the leadscrew in tension, takes some of the bend out of the lead screw - and pre-loads it to prevent whipping.
.
The problem with most set ups - is that they use a nut against the bearing. This doesn't accomplish much. The nut has a chamfer, and puts all of the preload against the seal of the bearing, which then results in friction. CNC-Jay had a better idea with using a bearing against that surface- at least you preload the leadscrew - and keep the friction off of the seal surface.

Here is what I did, using either a metal lathe or a pipe cutting tool, cut some 1/2 Inch Inner Diameter Copper Water pipe - cut sections 1/8" to 1/4" long. Then debur the inside. I slip this over the lead screw on the outboard side of the bearing, then place a washer on top of that. Next torque down a nut onto the washer - to pre-load the lead screw. Check by turning by hand if you have applied too much preload. Then jam-nut another nut on top of that.

Just my $0.02 worth.

CNC-Joe
PS Sorry for the low resolution camera phone image

joecnc2006
06-23-2007, 09:55 AM
Looks good, that is a good and cheap idea. When you get a camera maybe you can post a log of the machine so we can see the overall.

CNC-Joe
06-24-2007, 09:05 AM
Just a shot of my modified Dust Shroud. Using CNC-Jay's, Joe2006's, and Buzz's ideas, and a little of my own...

Basically I cut another router holder, then attached a Joe2006 base to that via kreg wood screws. Then I did an Autocad PolyLine offset to have a lower skirt guard with the same outer profile. I modified diameters on the hose to fit my Sears shop vac for the time being (eventually I will build a large cyclone for this baby). The lower skirt guard keeps the tail of the skirt from being sucked up into the shop vacuum port. By leaving some space between the two, and not using an excessive amount of fasteners on the bottom skirt guide - you get a degree of "springy-ness" to the skirt - which is good for deep cuts.

To this I attached see through carpet guard (Home Depot's "Step Guard" material - thanks for the tip, Buzz). In this manner, you can still see what's happening with the router, and - best of all - watch all that sawdust get sucked right out of there!

The next version will definitely be out of some good plywood. But this was a start and a Huge Huge Huge Improvement to air quality in the shop.

I highly recommend that everyone add some type of dust collector to their system. The incredible amount of fine dust that these things produce - is definitely not good for the lungs. It would also be a good idea to wear a dust mask (a good Mine Safety Approved type) while running this equipment for a significant amount of time. End of fatherly discussion.

My hat's off to Buzz and CNC-Jay for their wonderful websites, and sharing their ideas and help.

CNC-Joe
06-24-2007, 09:12 AM
Well, you've added that dust collector shroud, and now you've started cutting. The first thing you will note is that it can get hung up on anything that stands up above the work piece. Now time for the "Low Profile Work Piece Hold Down Clamps".

I would have to give Buzz at least partial credit for this idea, as we have been communicating and sharing a lot of our ideas on this sort of thing.

I basically cut scrap plywood into 2.5" Wide by however long you have on hand - strips.
Then I used the table saw to cut a Rabbet (as the Brits would say "Rebate") along the edge.

Next I cut the long strip into 2.5 inch wide strips- resulting in a 2.5 x 2.5 inch block.

I then drilled the blocks on center with a 5/16" drill bit.

A trip to the local WoodCraft or Rockler - to purchase some T-bolts 1.75 Inches long.

I then placed my standard sacrificial 0.25 inch thick spacers under 0.75 inch thick material, installed the t-bolt, snugged up the wood hold down, and tightened a 1/4-20 hex nut and washer down. (( as this is my typical machining set up ))

I trimmed off the excess of the brass t-bolt with my pneumatic cut off tool. A hacksaw or dremel would also work.

There you have it- nice, low profile work piece hold down clamps - that stay out of the way of the dust collector shroud. Best part - they're cheap and re-usable, and you won't get upset when you cut through them with the router.

Thanks again to Buzz for his input on this one.

erebus
06-29-2007, 10:37 AM
Not really a mod. But I just found some nice Hip/Knee E-stop at rockler and thought folks might be interested.

http://images.rockler.com/rockler/images/20915-01-200.jpg


http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=17401&filter=20915

BobF
09-03-2007, 09:16 PM
Joe,
I am planning to build your machine. (I sent you some questions about kits). Is there any reason why dumpsters acme couplers couldn't be used instead of the lovejoys?

Thanks

joecnc2006
09-04-2007, 08:53 AM
Joe,
I am planning to build your machine. (I sent you some questions about kits). Is there any reason why dumpsters acme couplers couldn't be used instead of the lovejoys?

Thanks


Yes they will work just fine, and also allow for a no slop setup in the connection.

Joe

mhiggins
10-07-2007, 08:58 PM
What type of relay is everyone using to operate your routers through mach2/3? I assume there is more than one type in use. I would like to find something simple and reliable to add to my machine.

Jojje Bergan
10-07-2007, 10:35 PM
I use a Solid State Relay.

mhiggins
10-07-2007, 10:43 PM
I use a Solid State Relay.

What I am really looking for is a brand and a source. Of course any details about ease or difficulty of installation would also be helpful.

Thanks,
Mike

sdantonio
10-07-2007, 10:47 PM
Mike,

This is the first I've heard about a relay. I've just been turning my router on and off by hand. What is the relay for?

Steven

OzarkCNC
10-07-2007, 11:23 PM
I'm guessing Mach3 has an I/O line that they are using to power a relay to turn their motors on and off.

Its just another wow factor. See look, my computer turns things on and off. :D

Not mandatory to have, but a nice *FEATURE*

right guys?

Heres one that is opto isolated and controls up to 600watts with only a 50ua switching current. Dunno of this would be big enough or not.

http://www.imagineeringezine.com/e-zine/ssr.html

Or if you dont want to build one. This one works on as little as 3v input.

http://www.newark.com/jsp/Electromechanical+&+Industrial+Control/Relays/CROUZET/84137000/displayProduct.jsp?sku=17M8495

Nice pricetag though...

mhiggins
10-07-2007, 11:25 PM
Mike,

This is the first I've heard about a relay. I've just been turning my router on and off by hand. What is the relay for?

Steven

Mach can turn on/off your spindle motor through the parallel port via a relay switch. For those with the ATC this would be a requirement since they might not be there to turn off the router manually before the tool change occurs. I don't have an ATC but still like the idea of the program activating the router. you could also use this type of setup to activate coolant or dust colletion.

sdantonio
10-07-2007, 11:32 PM
Mike And Ozark,

Thanks. That's probably beyond what I need for machine control since I don't use an ATC and my typical work pieces are usually a few hours cutting time per piece and only a few pieces per month. I think I can take the time to be there at the beginning and the end :)

mhiggins
10-08-2007, 12:34 AM
Ozark, thanks for the links. I'm still curious what others are using.

mhiggins
10-13-2007, 06:41 PM
Here is a relay I found that looks similar to the one in Ozarks post but quite a bit cheaper. I guess my biggest problem is not knowing what kind of current a typical parallel port produces. This one says typical input of 5V @ 15 milli-amps. I also don't see anything mentioned about opto-isolation on this one. Maybe that's why it's so cheap?

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2007101222062850&item=11-3167&catname=

I have a relay that I bought just for parallel port use, two in fact, but I can't get them to trip when I trigger the input from Mach3. With a voltmeter across the circuit I can see the voltage drop from 5V to about 1.5V but the load on the output side never comes on. I have used electric tools and lights to act as the AC load with the same results. I assume that I just need a better quality relay that will trip with minimal volts/amps? I also tried a PCI parallel card just in case the on-board port wasn't up to snuff, same results though.

Thoughts anyone?

mindstorm88
06-24-2008, 10:45 AM
From post 34
This is a modification that I did to help with the vibration that I had. I made new bearing blocks for the X & Y axis and it helped the X about 95% and the Y 100%. I used the anti-backlash block with a bearing cut instead of the nut.

Rick

Guys just to clarify , the added bearing is sliding on the lead screw ???? no danger to stick with dust ???

jdell42
06-30-2008, 11:21 AM
I use the Mini I/O board with the relay board. It has a 30A relay and a 10A relay to control both my dust collection and router.

http://candcnc.com/

mindstorm88
07-08-2008, 09:31 AM
From post 34

Guys just to clarify , the added bearing is sliding on the lead screw ???? no danger to stick with dust ???

any reply guys???

starting to put parts together tonight !!!!

Buzz9075
07-08-2008, 09:38 AM
I have additional bearings on both X and Y leads, Y being at the other side of the Z carriage, X being on the other end of the Y carrage box. I believe I was the one who identified to place the extra bearings in place and I have had them in since this machine when into production. So far I have no wiping action no matter how fast it moves and I have not seen and binding or such when using it.

joecnc2006
07-08-2008, 10:03 AM
Buzz, Can you post a picture? Also like to see how your machine is running now since you have so many miles on it now :)

joe

Buzz9075
07-08-2008, 10:19 AM
You can see pictures at www.cncmachine.phillipsfamily.ca. Pick the 2006 machine and build pictures are under ther. Check out the section Torsion box adjustments just over half way down. I don't have pictures online with the Y axis done but it is the same principle.

_jms_
07-08-2008, 11:27 AM
Has anyone used a shop vac modified to hold pieces in place on the cutting area. Basically seal up the outer ribs and bottom of the cutting area torsion box and install a connection with a hose adapter for the vac and install peg board substrate. I am sure this has been disussed before.

joecnc2006
07-08-2008, 05:48 PM
Has anyone used a shop vac modified to hold pieces in place on the cutting area. Basically seal up the outer ribs and bottom of the cutting area torsion box and install a connection with a hose adapter for the vac and install peg board substrate. I am sure this has been disussed before.

It has been discussed before, but to my knowledge no one has done it before. I know on some CNC machines people use MDF with the skins removed to allow air passage through the material, its a special named MDF board they use, and allot of people use the Vein Shopvacs which are very good then used with a vacuum table system.

Joe

_jms_
07-08-2008, 06:51 PM
The peg board has a melamine coating which should make a nice surface...at least for a while. I think it would be best to secure it with silicon so it would be easy to swap once it gets hit a few times from through cuts.. The vac I have is one of those rigid 6hp deals from HD...I was just hoping someone had tried it before. Might have to post this in a more general cnc forum...

calgrdnr
09-16-2008, 12:49 AM
Here are the speeds recorded by David Da Costa . http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=264454&postcount=1168

I had to search for them as Joes 2006 is so large, I thought I would post them here for future reference and for those not reading the whole thread .

Hitachi speed by David Da Costa

1=8,500
2=11,500
3=14,500
4=17,500
5=20,500
6=24,000

artwood_decor
09-18-2008, 08:55 AM
Please tell me where can I find the DXF files for JOE 2006.
Can they be downloaded from somewhere?

Lucian

joecnc2006
09-18-2008, 02:42 PM
Please tell me where can I find the DXF files for JOE 2006.
Can they be downloaded from somewhere?

Lucian



http://rs134.rapidshare.com/files/130394446/Joes_CNC_Model_2006_R-2.zip

Joe

artwood_decor
09-18-2008, 05:06 PM
Already saved them...

that was a lot of work for you to put so many parts together...
hopefully some day I'll afford to build the 4x4 hybrid

Lucian

Serb
10-02-2009, 12:01 PM
I'm fixing to do some major modifications to the Y and Z gantry and was wondering if there is still a set of plans that was done in Sketchup. I had one and lost it and it sure would be nice to have it again.

DayneInfo
10-04-2009, 04:47 AM
I have the SketchUp files. Send me a PM with your email and I will send them to you.

Dwayne

Found the original files here http://cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=234068&postcount=732

You can just download them from the link above if you like.

Serb
10-04-2009, 12:02 PM
I have the SketchUp files. Send me a PM with your email and I will send them to you.

Dwayne

Found the original files here http://cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=234068&postcount=732

You can just download them from the link above if you like.

Thanks D,

I downloaded the pack from post #130 and all of the versions are there.

I had the Z axis sliding part done a while ago because with plastic parts and the router being so far out it was giving me too much vibration when cutting aluminum. Here are some pics of it. For cutting wood and doing engraving the original design is perfect for the money.

The Capture.jpg is a new design made out of steel. I ended up getting all the linear bearings and stainless rods as a freebie so I had to jump on it. The X-axis slider has a dual bearing block and I need to insert another single bearing slider next to it since the Y gantry leg is 9" wide. The bottom horizontal connector between the Y gantry legs is a 2 X 6 steel purlin and the top bridge is the same, 2 purlins split and welded together to make it wider. There will be a 1/4" steel plate welded inside the purlins' ends so that they can be bolted on. The Y gantry legs are 1/4" steel plates and I'm contemplating of having the machine shop mill a 1/8" deep blind hole for the 3/4" horizontal rods, then I can drill, tap, and screw them on.

I'll post the final drawings when I'm done with it. All of the steel parts can be purchased relatively cheap. A single stock length of a 2 X 6 purling can be used to produce all the parts and with plenty of leftover to even make a new table out of it. I'm getting all of the 1/4" steel plate parts plasma cut by my steel supplier for $35, can't beat that.(flame2). The only critical deal here is the 60" long rod. A 3/4 drill rod will flex up to 1/8" on that length where a stainless will cut that down to a fraction but a simple solution to that would be to place an additional single bearing support running on top of a L-angle below the linear bearings (with some brushes on either side of the bearing in case some trash ends up on the runner).

mhiggins
10-04-2009, 11:27 PM
I had intended to wait until I was closer to completion but after seeing some action on this thread I have decided to jump in.

I have been working on a new gantry for my 2006 which incorporates design elements from Joe's 4x4 as well as mods inspired by other DIY machines, commercial units and some of my own ideas.

The carriage can run outside of the gantry uprights on both sides to allow for an upcoming 4th axis on one side and a future tool changer rack on the other.

I will probably start a new thread on this with more information and pics in the near future. I will post a link when I do.

Serb
10-05-2009, 12:27 AM
Hig, that looks promising ,

Nice concept, but you are still riding on the mdf base, plus you are going 2 foot out. The angle iron support was invented by me, way back, and it does well for wood.

Besides mdf construction and since you have aluminum extrusions I really want to bring up a fact about the process of machine design. Any production machine is prototyped in aluminum, hopefully not in a 80/20, designers have their own 80/20's, extruded shapes that work better and are much cheaper when you have your own dies. This is where the limits are tested and then the order goes out and usually a company in Holland is willing to make a caste production model for a cost plus the rights to sell. This is a standard, ask Joe; he didn't pop out of the woodwork and invented a wheel, he came up with the decent low budget deal and God bless his Texas soul.

I'm not saying that you do not have a good idea. It is great. But you have to realize that your spindle will be dancing like cow's piss on a flat rock out there if you decide to push it on some aluminum angle sliders. Just like me with my previous wife.

mhiggins
10-05-2009, 03:40 PM
Hi Serb,

If I didn't stay with the MDF table this wouldn't be an upgrade it would be a new machine. :D

All DIY projects are essentially an exercise in R&D. We try things to see if they will work. When things don't work, we make changes and try again. I can't guarantee that my mods will be successful but I'm hoping they will be. If not I will take that lesson and apply it to the next attempt. It's all in good fun anyway.

I'm using the same steel angle and bearings as the Joe's 4x4, so I think that part is pretty well proven. It's everything else I need to worry about. :(

mhiggins
11-19-2009, 12:07 PM
Here is the link to my new build thread.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=693030#post693030

Serb
04-04-2010, 11:34 AM
I finally got the baby done. The linear bearings and rods were a freebie so I can't complain but if I had to purchase them I would go with rods that have continuous support and open linear bearings. The 3/4" rods on the X axis were sagging in the middle due to the weight of the Y gantry so I added a flat bars and installed 2 bearings to ride on it on each leg of the Y gantry. In order for the same bars not to flex along the Y direction while cutting I added a 1/2 X 1/2 U-channels at the bottom of the table and made a guide that rides on it from a UHMW 3/4" material. I had to use the same method w/ 1/2 X 1/2 U-channel and a guide for the Y gantry. The two 3/4" rods did not sag in the middle but they were flexing in the opposite direction of the X travel; when the Z gantry was extended all the way down the top rod was flexing one way and the bottom one was doing the opposite. This is why I wish I had rods w/ continuous support so next time I'll attach a spec sheet to the freebie orders. Another thing I noticed is that there is a little play in the Z slide. I did use 2 linear bearings per rod but the self aligned bearings within the bearing blocks have too much play for my taste so I'll end up replacing them with some linear bushings. On the X rods I have long bearing blocks w/ 2 bearings in it and a single block w/ a bushing on each side and on the Y rods I have long bearing block w/ 2 bearings in it and they work just fine.

flyhigh
03-01-2011, 10:11 AM
I am planning on building either a joe's cnc or something with a similar footprint. First of all, thanks to Joe and everyone else for allowing me to begin my project so far ahead of anything I could have come up with on my own. I have read this thread and the main joes2006 thread. I still can't easily pinpoint the major weaknesses of the original design and how to correct them. Here are some of my ideas, any comments or additions would be excellent:


The supports for the pipe on the x axis seem to allow the pipe, if it is not attached to the u supports, to sag down and out. Would it be better to simply use something similar to the y axis with the supports between the pipes? I am also thinking of filling them with concrete, although, from what I understand, it is a good idea to pass a through bolt down their centers(?).
All pipe should be polished.
There is a bit of whip in the x axis. It is best to have two spaced bearings at each end along with a tensioning system.
Due to backlash, one should stay away from the spider couplings and go with direct couplings. A counterweight damper on the motors is a great addition.
It seems that many people like to stiffen up the gantry, either using angle brackets or through bolts, or both. I wonder if there are better options for this, such as cutting two sides to the gantry each out of one piece of mdf.
a more advanced type of anti-backlash nut is important.


Lastly, Has anyone tried using v groove bearings and a rectangular bearing mount, and did it work well?

Once again, thanks! I am looking forward to your tips, particularly if my list shows that I am not paying attention to something important.

firlefranz
02-22-2012, 05:22 PM
I've made some small additions to the original Joes 2006 while I tried to keep the original design in the new parts.

At first I installed a rail at the backside of the gantry, which is simply attached to the PE bearing mounts. The rail is used for the limit switches and the cable carrier.
A similar attachment is mounted to the right side close to the Y-axis bearings. Also here the cable carrier is connected, as well as the limit switches and some part to fix the hose from the vacuum.
To clean the the parts while cutting the vacuum is connected close to the router. The brush is fixed by some strong magnets to remove it quickly when necessary.

Greetings
Cornelius

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/8485/img6024fj.jpg
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/1729/img6027p.jpg
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3686/img6031q.jpg

Bri4n
04-03-2013, 04:55 PM
Does anyone have the dust shoe file? I can't seem to find it.