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n1k86
10-26-2015, 06:43 PM
Shopsabre is confident that our new IS510 will ship out this week so I'm looking to setup the compressed air system for the HSD 5hp toolchange spindle. They are pretty big about keeping water out of the system and wanted to know if anyone had any advice on that? I have an Rolair oil pump compressor VT25BIG that I'm planning on using (6.5CFM at 100psi) and I was looking into the Rapidair 3/8" ID line system.

islaww
10-27-2015, 08:25 AM
Use of clean air is important. Any of the good ($100+) filter regulators should suffice, but in southern humidity a dryer may be required.

6.5cfm may "just" meet the cfm requirement for cooling the lower bearings depending on when the air is supplied by the control. If the compressor is running all the time, obviously, it cant keep up.

n1k86
10-27-2015, 11:15 AM
I didn't think of spindle cooling, I just assumed it was fan cooled. I have an email into Shopsabre to ask them about that. If so I guess I will be buying that big compressor after all. We are in NW PA so it doesn't get all that humid, about 70% at the worst of times.

rgh
10-28-2015, 09:31 AM
I would recommend a dryer. The Spindle tool changer runs dry (no oil for lubrication) with some very tight tolerances, and oil/water in the lines can cause problems. I use a desiccant dryer follow by a trap/filter 30 feet from the compressor to allow for cooling/condensation, but will go to a refrigerated dryer next time.

LeeWay
10-28-2015, 12:13 PM
Also good drain drops in the low point of a system help out a lot.
I just bought a 1/2" Max air system that will feed our shop.
Maxline M3800 Master Kit, 1/2-Inch x 100-Feet - Air Compressor Accessories - Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CZ7GTLU?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s01)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71lufwJz2PL._SL1500_.jpg
It has manifolds with drops for drainage built in. I also use several desiccant filters butt I am bad at replacing it. I do both powder coating and plasma cutting as well as run some air tools and some pnematic cylinders on things, sso I do require the driest air possible. I intend to be more vigilant with desiccant replacement and draining these manifolds as well as the tank, but I do foresee a drier in my near future. :(

n1k86
10-29-2015, 07:55 PM
I would recommend a dryer. The Spindle tool changer runs dry (no oil for lubrication) with some very tight tolerances, and oil/water in the lines can cause problems. I use a desiccant dryer follow by a trap/filter 30 feet from the compressor to allow for cooling/condensation, but will go to a refrigerated dryer next time.

Something like this?: Amazon.com: DeVilbiss 130525 QC3 Air Filter and Dryer: Automotive (http://www.amazon.com/DeVilbiss-130525-QC3-Filter-Dryer/dp/B002PR8ZXK/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1446162374&sr=8-9&keywords=compressed+air+filter) I would only have it setup right at where air goes to the machine, not for general use.

LeeWay
10-29-2015, 08:09 PM
I have been looking at some similar to these.
520A Top Port 15 CFM Compressed Air Extractor Dryer Great 4 Plasma Cutters | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/520A-Top-Port-15-CFM-Compressed-Air-Extractor-Dryer-Great-4-Plasma-Cutters-/281049214650?hash=item416fd6aeba:g:xIcAAOxyGStRw1cV)


They have larger ones on Ebay as well.

I have been considering this too.
1 2" Automatic Electronic Timed Air Compressed Drain Valve AC380V for Dryers | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-Automatic-Electronic-Timed-Air-Compressed-Drain-Valve-AC380V-for-Dryers-/151323216484?hash=item233b910a64:g:dJAAAOSwPcVVzfwJ)


I hardly ever remember to drain the tank myself and my Son is even worse. :(

rgh
10-30-2015, 08:08 AM
Something like this?: Amazon.com: DeVilbiss 130525 QC3 Air Filter and Dryer: Automotive (http://www.amazon.com/DeVilbiss-130525-QC3-Filter-Dryer/dp/B002PR8ZXK/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1446162374&sr=8-9&keywords=compressed+air+filter) I would only have it setup right at where air goes to the machine, not for general use.

As long as the air flow is adequate through the desiccant, this should work. Depending on how wet the air is, you might need to change beads often. The unit I use is a 3 foot pipe filled with beads (a pound of them), with a separator before it and a filter after it (and another filter separator at the machine (which never gets water or oil in it) . I don't use the machine that much, but change beads quarterly. If I used the machine a lot, I am guessing I would need to replace at least monthly. Probably a bad word, but I have heard good things about HF's refrigerated unit for $400, and there are a few units on ebay.

n1k86
10-30-2015, 05:37 PM
Changed my mind on the 60 gallon Ingersoll Rand 2 stage, 5hp. Puma makes a 40 gal. 3hp 2 stage for $850, sounds like enough output for what I currently need and then a bit more, I'll order it on Monday morning assuming nothing else compelling shows up. I also found out that the IR pump is made in India (I believe so anyway) so not "made" in USA but "built" in USA. Any other suggestions for a compressor in the 30-60 gal. range that has enough output to consistently maintain 120 psi?

DigitalOi
10-31-2015, 10:57 AM
If you plan on adding anything else that requires air you might want to consider a rotary screw. We did this in preparation for our machine. We have a pretty high demand for air and our piston pump barely keeps up at the moment. Our finishing booth, multiple air sanders, staplers, nailers, and drills along with the cnc really require more than what ours is capable of producing(7.5 hp, 120 gallon, with an additional 280 gallons of storage).


Changed my mind on the 60 gallon Ingersoll Rand 2 stage, 5hp. Puma makes a 40 gal. 3hp 2 stage for $850, sounds like enough output for what I currently need and then a bit more, I'll order it on Monday morning assuming nothing else compelling shows up. I also found out that the IR pump is made in India (I believe so anyway) so not "made" in USA but "built" in USA. Any other suggestions for a compressor in the 30-60 gal. range that has enough output to consistently maintain 120 psi?

n1k86
10-31-2015, 11:50 AM
A rotary screw isn't going to happen right now but if I do get more than a few machines that need air and plan to use it for other purposes I'll definitely consider it down the road. I don't have any air tools running on a regular basis and I don't have a spray setup yet (I can always do HVLP with that also). Right now its just me in the shop with some occasional help, when we get bigger a 'real' compressor will be on the buy list. It looks like we are day to day now with getting the machine crated and shipped, they are testing it now so hopefully it ships early this coming week.

n1k86
10-31-2015, 01:52 PM
Also good drain drops in the low point of a system help out a lot.
I just bought a 1/2" Max air system that will feed our shop.
Maxline M3800 Master Kit, 1/2-Inch x 100-Feet - Air Compressor Accessories - Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CZ7GTLU?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s01)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71lufwJz2PL._SL1500_.jpg
It has manifolds with drops for drainage built in. I also use several desiccant filters butt I am bad at replacing it. I do both powder coating and plasma cutting as well as run some air tools and some pnematic cylinders on things, sso I do require the driest air possible. I intend to be more vigilant with desiccant replacement and draining these manifolds as well as the tank, but I do foresee a drier in my near future. :(

I'm planning on doing one of these piping setups as well, any reason not to get the 3/4" version instead of the 1/2", they seem pretty close in price? It would seem that wider pipe would give the air longer to cool down and water to condense out prior to hitting a filter/dryer. Then again the smaller dia. tube would have a higher surface area (for conduction/convection of heat away from pipe) to pipe volume ratio, so that might not be a contributing factor for either size.

LeeWay
10-31-2015, 02:44 PM
I actually had the 3/4" in my cart at one point. Then when I started looking at the cost of all new air hose fittings, etc, I chose the 1/2" instead. The kit is close in price though. I just couldn't see going 3/4" and dropping it down to the 3/8" fittings I will use. I have some 1/4" stuff and that will be at the end of the line.

n1k86
10-31-2015, 04:29 PM
Wow, your right,1/2" fittings and hose are much cheaper individually but the kit is nearly the same price as the 3/4", weird.

LeeWay
10-31-2015, 04:52 PM
Another little tip when installing this kind of line.
On the tube connections between the manifolds, make sure you have no dips. If anything, arc it visibly at the center of the run. That way any moisture that does drop out will run to the manifold drains.

rgh
11-01-2015, 10:09 AM
Check out someplace like "Hose and Rubber" supply. They sell pneumatic line and fittings wholesale, and you can vary the sizing. Not sure which is less expensive since it has been awhile since I did my shop.