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gfacer2
10-15-2015, 01:40 AM
Hi All,

OK after lots of questions and poking around here we finally put our money down for a Omni 1530 (really 1631 fingers crossed) ATC router.

I want to document the purchase as best I can to help others. I do not know yet if I will have any pitfalls but if and when I do have them I will try and post them. I will not use this forum to mediate any issues other than as a last venting.

I am going into this knowing:

1) I will get what I pay for. So when I can buy this router at about 1/2 price from a restickered importer then I know that I am in the right range. I have compared suppliers but I have not haggled because if I get a better price I know I will get a worse machine.
2) I know it will not be ready to go out of the box. hopefully its close but it will not be where I need it to be and I expect I will need to do a fair bit of legwork to get it going properly. This is a given.
3) I know documentation will be minimal or non existant so I have researched the controls etc before committing. I expect the machine and anything else is a bonus.
4) I know to ask for pictures, and to be specific.
5) I know not to pay attention to the posted shipping costs.
6) I know there are things I don't yet know and I am on the lookout for them as we go through the process.

Anyhow I thought I would start by posting my PO to Omni and their PI back. Mine is relatively detailed, theirs is only somewhat but they should be referring to the same end machine.

I wanted to do this as I really had no idea how to write up a PO for this (really more a detailed spec sheet but anyhow) so this is my go at it. I'm going to reserve a few of the early posts for updates.

gfacer2
10-15-2015, 01:47 AM
here is the PO - sorry some of the formatting might be off.

I did not just fire this off. I sent a draft first and got a proforma invoice (PI) back and then back and forth until I had the changes needed and the PI did not conflict with this (even though the level of detail on the PI is a lot less). BTW - as for the models of the drives and motors - as long as they are comparable I'll be fine. The spindle I'll be sticky on as I wanted a ceramic ceramic bearings HSD spindle as both my brother and I run 15 year old HSD's with ceramics and they still work great. I did ensure we agreed that this model was available and suitable first.

I think the biggest 'oddity' for Omni is the insistence on UL listed components and wiring labels. Let's just say we've had issues and it the wires aren't labeled UL it is a big potential problem under a worse case scenario (inspection). That added about 5% to the price.

Surrey Plasticworks Ltd.
...

October 14th, 2015
Purchase Order:

Working/cutting area: 1600mm (MINIMUM) x 3100mm (MINIMUM) x 300mm

Frame/Gantry: 8mm steel minimum, heat treated after welding for stress relief, painted. Frame with adjustable feet on frame for leveling. Machined at mating surfaces, shims of suitable metal material where required.

Controller: Syntec 6MD with Ethernet connection provided with english manual and technical support contacts. With hand wheel mpg control.

Working Voltage: 220v 3phase with Ground

Motor Drives/Motors: Yaskawa 1000w (SGDV-7R6A01A) drives and Yaskawa 850w motors (SGMGV-09ADC61). 2 motors on X axis, 1 motor on Y and 1 motor on Z axis.

Cabling/relays/switches: All cabling with shielded wires labeled on the sheathing of the wire with UL or CSA listings. All components,wiring, motors, relays and switches to be CSA or UL listed and labeled on the exterior of the part/wire.
Omron E-stops on both sides of the gantry and control.
Schneider Main switch on cabinet
All components are grounded.

Motor Reduction: Belt Reduction

Drive: `Taiwan brand Helical Rack and Pinion for x/y and German sourced ballscrew on Z
Rails: Hiwin 30mm (HGH 30CA) Linear Bearings on all rails
Metal/Rubber Wipers on all bearings.
Automatic oil lubrication of all bearings.

ATC: Carousel type 8 slots ISO 30 - auto tool calibration sensor

Spindle: HSD model es929-H6161H0822 (No substitutions)

VFD: Delta 11KW with english manual

Table: Phenolic vacuum table without T slot - 8 zone

Dust Hood: Gcode controlled with air cylinder.

Relays: Please provide one relay for UL/CSA listed 70A/220v 3 phase relay (vacuum pump) wired to and controlled by the controller via button and G code.

Spares parts:
4 x spare pinion gears
12 spare linear bearings
2 sets of reduction belts

Price: Sorry - you'll have to negotiate that yourself...

Payment:
30% via wire transfer on confirmation of purchase order conditions and confirmed pricing
20% via wire transfer on receipt of pictures of components, before installation. Specifically:

Servo motors and drives (with model and serial # visable)
relays and switches (with CSA/UL listing visible)
wiring to be used (with CSA/UL listing visible)
Spindle to be mounted (with model and serial # visable)
hiwin bearings



25% via wire transfer on receipt of build pictures/video showing specifically:
Detailed photos of

Assembly,
machined surface on parts that will be bolted together
Metal shims used where needed
Interior of Cabinet,
Overall Wiring layout
Ground termination point
CSA/UL labeling on wiring
Servo drives and connections.
Transformers
70 amp/220v relay
Exterior of cabinet
Syntec controller
Portable MPG controller
Linear motion system
Details of belt drive system
Bearings and rails
Close up of Rack and pinion
Table
Size of table working area.
Plumbing of vacuum table
location of limit switches
ATC
Spindle model and serial number
ATC carousel
Confirmation of proper working voltage.


Video of test run with tool change, auto touch off, dust boot retracted on our machine (marked as such in the video). Confirmation of 1600mm x 3100mm working size on the table. Confirmation of square cuts on sample material.

25% via wire transfer on completion of loading into container with photos of pre shipping greasing and packing.

Delivery:
Machine to be ready for shipping within 35 days of order placement.

Other terms:

Surrey Plasticworks has the right to engage 3rd party inspection firms to check production before the goods leave China and before final payment is made.

No additional accessories/features will be paid for without prior authorization.

gfacer2
10-15-2015, 01:57 AM
OK so here is the PI as it is now (just prior to deposit)

Note that the deposits do not match - I still plan on my schedule - even if just to get the pictures I need. Again - I've deleted pricing. I will only say I've seen chinese made, NA stickered and marketed machines for at $41000USD to $60000 CAD range that compare and this is a healthy markup for them from what I have agreed to. Not an unfair one - if you asked me to ship, store, display and support these machines I'd want that kind of margin too.

gfacer2
10-15-2015, 02:01 AM
For shipping - I'll try and consolidate that here in this post.

Right now I have a shipping broker arm of a customs broker working on it and a shipping broker alone. Right now it is looking like a crate (LCL) will be about $2500CAD - for close to all in but you just have to roll with it on shipping - whereas a full 20' container would be more like $4k CAD.

So I am leaning LCL. but I'll edit this post as I get more details.

I had budgeted 3,000USD so I'm in the ballpark I expected.

gfacer2
10-15-2015, 02:02 AM
I'll reserve this post and the next couple for some component shots and build photos etc.

gfacer2
10-15-2015, 02:09 AM
Reserved for additional build photos.

RUSTY2
10-15-2015, 09:21 AM
Hello, I to am ordering a unit from Jack from Omni. being that I leased out my warehouse I no longer have 3phase so I went with a 1530 -1500*3000mm, 300mm, Length 2000mm rotary device , Pneumatic Tool Change

PROFORMA INVOICE
Bakellite combined with Aluminum T -slot extrusion, vacuum table(with alignment pins)
Vacuum pump: 5.5kw Tongyou vacuum pump
Dust collector: 3kw dust collector with hood, Mist sprayer: Mist sprayer for metal materials
Rotary device: Dia 300mm, Length 2000mm
40 Cutting tools,8Collets,8Clamps,2Spanners,1Brush, 1Power Cord, 1USB Cable,30m sealing strips
X, Y, Z Travelling Potioning Accuracy: ±0.02/300mm
X, Y, Z Travelling Repositioning Accuracy: ±0.02mm
Working voltage: AC220V/50Hz, single phase
Emergency stop and Switch: Japan Omron emergency stop and SCHNEIDER switch
Machine frame: Thickened strong steel gantry with steel square tubes frame
X, Y, Z structure: Helical Rack and pinion drive, Taiwan Hiwin square rail, Cylinder drive on Z axis
Software: Artcam English version, Command language: G code
Tool calibration and Auto oil lubrication
Inverter: 2 sets Taiwan Delta frequency inverter 3.7kw

Getting to the last of it now 294972294974

I know they are giving us the standard set of 20 bits , with me being I have two spindles it is 40. Do you have a suggestion of any bits other then the ones that come with the units . I am new to routers? thanx Brian

gfacer2
10-19-2015, 12:45 AM
Got a PM from other purchaser of an Omni 1530 (different specs but same base machine) coming to my local area a few weeks ahead of mine. Hopefully I get a chance to see it. As the purchaser wanted to PM me, I'll leave out any names but still a pretty crazy coincidence. His build time seems to have run about 8-9 weeks - about where I thought mine would be in reality though I was hoping for a bit faster. That will put my machine in house in January sometime.

PS - I now see CNCzone doesn't seem to allow later editing - which is really unfortunate - so those build posts will have to just come in order.

RUSTY2
10-19-2015, 01:15 AM
[i will get in touch with you first part of the week , being we are about 20 min away , I PM you because when I replied it did not go? [/I]

gfacer2
10-19-2015, 01:24 AM
No worries Rusty, just didn't want to post anything specific you might not have wanted. But I'm at your service if you need a hand on the unload.

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gfacer2
10-22-2015, 03:32 PM
I know they are giving us the standard set of 20 bits , with me being I have two spindles it is 40. Do you have a suggestion of any bits other then the ones that come with the units . I am new to routers? thanx Brian

We use Onsrud bits - they are available from a variety of sources. I usually get them from the consumables dept of Multicam as they are close to me and seem to order from Onsrud frequently (and carrier some stock too). We've tired some ebay bits too with some success in the right uses. They are cheap but they don't leave as nice an edge finish.

G

gfacer2
10-22-2015, 04:51 PM
Delete - duplicate post

gfacer2
10-23-2015, 01:07 PM
So parts have started to arrive. I stated in my PO that I wanted pics of parts/wiring before installation so I could verify UL listings. This is mainly in case someone says we need to get it certified in Canada after importing. We want it 'close' so that it might pass a casual inspection and would not need much done to get an actual sticker of the full unit.

So far we have confirmed the servo motors and servo packs are OK (though the UL is only stamped on the servo packs), the power supply is stamped for UL too. The main switch and relay are not however and so we are working through that (as its a main element for needing UL in our opinion). Still these are minor compared to the motor/drives so I think we'll be OK.

Still waiting on UL wiring and the spindle and now the corrected relays and switch.

Anyhow, hopefully next week we pass the first hurdle of ensuring we have the right components.

I've also tried to download the product catalogs as I go so I have them on file just in case of future service needs and to confirm what I am getting.

So far so good though.

djcregan
10-26-2015, 06:56 PM
Hi
I saw your post, I'm in the UK.

I've gone through basically the same considerations as you and went for an Omni. 295968295970

I am waiting for 1325 with linear ATC is on the high sees on the MSC OSCAR.
It's currently passing Malta.
You may think it's a strange person who tracks the location of a container aboard a ship.
However I will tell you that I have had a great deal of frustration:

I was promised a 30 day manufacturing time from order, I placed it through Alibaba. It took twice that long with little or no explanation.
I dealt with my own shopping having had experience before. I used FCL 20ft FOB. The shipper had been very helpful.
However they quoted me a 40 day transit time but in reality it will be approx 44 days as its been trans shipped. Ie. It changed ships in Malvasia without me knowing until last week. The shipper was very apologetic but I don't think they had any control over this unless you specify no trans shipment. An eye opener for me. Any way it's due at port on 9/11/15.


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gfacer2
11-02-2015, 03:22 PM
Hi
I saw your post, I'm in the UK.

I was promised a 30 day manufacturing time from order, I placed it through Alibaba. It took twice that long with little or no explanation.


[/I]

If I get it loaded in 45-60 days after order - it will be about the expected time. Hoping for 30 (as they said to me too) but no one actually seems to get one in 30. I know it will be done when its done. This is an upgrade so the exact timing is not as important.

Be sure to post some unload pics and your experience setting up. They are invaluable on these forums. Thanks, G

RUSTY2
11-03-2015, 02:53 AM
Just got my BOL leaving on the 10th then 18 days for delivery to Vancouver. I just checked I placed the order Aug.25

gfacer2
11-03-2015, 02:58 AM
Just got my BOL leaving on the 10th then 18 days for delivery to Vancouver. I just checked I placed the order Aug.25
How much is shipping for you (if you arranged from here)? Or are you just having them ship to Vancouver and then dealing with port fees?

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RUSTY2
11-03-2015, 09:14 AM
I am looking after port fee's here, I used A&A Custom Brokers in the past great to deal with .

gfacer2
11-03-2015, 01:05 PM
Ok so another ten days and only the VFD has been added to the approved list. Still waiting for wiring and the spindle. At this point I am a little disappointed that components are still not in for approval but such is life.

Apparently they should be in this week - or at least one of them - we'll see. So far the only issue - still not resolved but I haven't pushed it either - is the main switches/relays. At this rate looks like it will ship late in Dec (and based on Rusty2's timeline). Oh well I was dreaming of having it in December to set it up but I'm sure my family will appreciate it coming in January!

Some pics - The schneider and relay are the non UL which need replacing for the schneider I did research to confirm it was only CE listed.


296614296616296618296620296622296624296628296630

gfacer2
11-09-2015, 03:36 AM
Still waiting on Spindle/wiring/relays for pre build approval (which did not arrive on either Wednesday or 'the weekend' as I was told but I do not consider these guesses promises). Frustrating but I know it comes with the territory. On the plus side, the frame is at least underway concurrently. Some frame pics...

297260297262

RUSTY2
11-09-2015, 10:41 AM
At the end of Sept Jack sent me the pics of the frame as well 297280297282 Then there was a 7 day holiday then I got the next batch of pics on the 18th of Oct. ( App two working weeks)297284 Just to give you some type of time line , not sure if it different on your build

gfacer2
11-12-2015, 12:34 AM
Ok so the spindle is in... but not 100% sure it is the right one. HSD is a little heavy on variations of models and a little light on specs and how to read details (ie tell from the sticker, what you are getting).

So the spindle spec'd and in the PI was an HSD 929 10hp with ceramic top and bottom bearings. The detailed model number was h6161h0822. The start of that seems to be pretty generic as there are lots of h6161 models. The h0822 seems to be the key. The problem is that Hsd's spec stickers that outline the performance curve are based on the motor and not the bearings so they use the same sticker for a bunch of variations. There is a little sticker above that looks like the detailed model number but it is nothing like what was spec'd and there is not information to prove this is an actual model number, much less the details of its construction and parts. As you can see the model looks to be h6161h1144 but its hard to say. There is a sticker that says ceramic (or Keramik) but so what - its just a sticker.

297630297632

I have sent the picture to HSD to see if they can approve it and asked Jack to 1) confirm what the ordered and 2) provide more back up and documentation re the model # or the actually spindle imported.

So right now it is not approved - which should mean it is NOT on the machine, but yet they also send a photo of it mounted. I've now told them the spindle is not approved and should not be mounted to the machine. I'm still about 75% sure the spindle is OK but as this was a 'no substitutions' part of the PO I will make triple sure it is right. The spindle I should not was chosen before the PO based on what Jack said they could get (I asked if they could get the model spec'd and he said "yes, it is confirmed".

297634


In other news, the cabinet is started (though they still have no UL wiring in so mainly its just components. And the right switches seem to be in with UL labeling.

297636

gfacer2
11-12-2015, 12:37 AM
I should note - that spindle is huge looking compared to my current 5hp shortnose. I don't look forward to removing it if needed.

Oh and in other news, I sold my current CNC (with flexible dates no less)! Only downside is that he's a current customer (smaller) and so I will loose a little business (or more if he lands more of the local sign market). The other downside is that he is close enough to ask for help anytime it goes down. I told him my training consists of a Poli-sci degree.

Oh and a should not (for the searchers on the forum) that he tried to buy a used precix but they have totally stiffed him (took deposit, no machine no responses - and we're local!). I've heard that from more than one source (he confirmed it though).

gfacer2
11-13-2015, 01:31 PM
So a partial update. HSD say the spindle is there product but want the serial number to confirm any specs. I am currently trying to get that information though it is taking longer than I had hoped.

Still no wiring in that I know about (is no one in the area building UL spec'd machines? I find that hard to believe). Might be clear I am getting a tad frustrated even though I know this was to be expected. Its my job at this point to be anxious - laissez faire is not the approach to buying machines from Asia.

So 1 month in so far which is the delivery time on the PI but I knew that was not ever ever happening and I hope everyone else does too. But I did think the wiring would be in...

Edit: Ok I have the serial number. Jack has basically said technician the technician said it was the same - the other one would take months to get. I've gotten the serial number confirmed and sent that to HSD to confirm the specs. It is certainly in the right family, with the right power curve etc but the unknown is the bearings.

gfacer2
11-16-2015, 12:24 PM
So djcregan - Have you received the machine in house yet? First impressions?

Oops I see you have not that I looked at the Syntec thread. So I guess it is hooked up and moving but the tool change is off. Anyhow, any other first impressions of the machine would be great.

djcregan
11-16-2015, 08:35 PM
Hi. The machine is great. Very well made and engineered. I don't regret my purchase. My machine has the linear 8 tool ATC.
However I am far from happy overall but i guess you have to accept that this isn't a turn key
the atc problem.
Perhaps and hopefully Im a week from now all will be well.
One of the small things that has really annoyed me in the last two days is the issues regarding the auto lubrication machine.
There are no english instructions and try as I have No matter how many times I ask for information and instructions in English none are forthcoming. I have oil pissing onto the floor. I have asked for a schematic diagram so that I know which valve on the manifold to adjust each slide. They say they don't have one " pathetic". How else do you know which valve controls each lubrication point unless you literally uncouple each hose, let more oil out and then turn each adjuster on the manifold, one by one. Hard work compared with supplying a simple diagram. I really cannot believe I'm the first to ask for this. Am I being unreasonable, please tell me?

Them there was the oil type, I asked what oil to put in the applicator as there was a small amount in.
I was told ""#29, #30 or #!31. This doesn't mean anything to me on the Uk, does anyone know what these references mean.
After two days of further questions and basically being ignored, I have took a guesstimate on 10w/40 engine oil as this equate similar to 40 cst.

I've now been passed over to Omni tech Support by Zach. However, Albert Lieu wasn't in work today, another day lost.

Let's see what tomorrow brings, erm! Correction - later today.

Here are some videos of the ATC problem.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_CUm0cE0rIfQjVFTXVtZ0VyUEE

Signing off @ 1.26 am.


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gfacer2
11-16-2015, 08:51 PM
Hi. The machine is great. Very well made and engineered. I don't regret my purchase. My machine has the linear 8 tool ATC.
However I am far from happy overall but i guess you have to accept that this isn't a turn key
the atc problem.
Perhaps and hopefully Im a week from now all will be well.
One of the small things that has really annoyed me in the last two days is the issues regarding the auto lubrication machine.
There are no english instructions and try as I have No matter how many times I ask for information and instructions in English none are forthcoming. I have oil pissing onto the floor. I have asked for a schematic diagram so that I know which valve on the manifold to adjust each slide. They say they don't have one " pathetic". How else do you know which valve controls each lubrication point unless you literally uncouple each hose, let more oil out and then turn each adjuster on the manifold, one by one. Hard work compared with supplying a simple diagram. I really cannot believe I'm the first to ask for this. Am I being unreasonable, please tell me?

Them there was the oil type, I asked what oil to put in the applicator as there was a small amount in.
I was told ""#29, #30 or #!31. This doesn't mean anything to me on the Uk, does anyone know what these references mean.
After two days of further questions and basically being ignored, I have took a guesstimate on 10w/40 engine oil as this equate similar to 40 cst.

I've now been passed over to Omni tech Support by Zach. However, Albert Lieu wasn't in work today, another day lost.

Let's see what tomorrow brings, erm! Correction - later today.

Here are some videos of the ATC problem.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_CUm0cE0rIfQjVFTXVtZ0VyUEE

Signing off @ 1.26 am.


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I think I read gear oil works better as its thicker and drips less.

I think the atc will be OK. Might be a subroutine too not a parameter exactly. Just a thought.

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gfacer2
11-16-2015, 09:33 PM
The slow release might be air pressure related. My current spindle can do that if the compressor is off but the tank is still pressurized. Eventually it loses enough pressure and doesn't release at all.

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gfacer2
11-17-2015, 12:57 AM
Oh and to answer the question, is it unreasonable to expect a manual? Yes and no. Yes, because it's the lack of these things that help make it cheap. And with research, you know documentation never comes up in a positive sense (usually it is only discussed for its absence).

I only say this to reiterate my first post for people lurking and thinking of Chinese machines.

Expect the machine, working somewhat, mechanically OK. Everything else is a bonus.

The no part of the answer is of course it would be nice (if it was right).



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djcregan
11-17-2015, 01:10 AM
Here are the air pressure readings

298182298184


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djcregan
11-17-2015, 01:18 AM
A quick question. Is it normal for air to leak from the spindle around the tool holder. There is always some air escaping. Not significant but a constant small hiss ?



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gfacer2
11-17-2015, 01:20 AM
Well I'm in psi. But might have details on the spindle. Check the hoses too or just listen for a hiss during the clamp (as opposed to the release of air after) the might indicate a leak at a fitting.

I'd start by just dialing it up a bit after looking for the specs the spindle wants.

And yes there is also constant air around the tool holder to keep dust out of the interior and clean the taper as it loads (I believe).

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djcregan
11-17-2015, 01:23 AM
It equates to 85psi at the machine. At the compressor its 125 psi. I've actually turned it up to what it was set at.


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gfacer2
11-17-2015, 01:30 AM
OK so on the pic they sent me of my HSD spindle it wants 6-7 bar of air pressure of about 90-100psi approx. So 125 might be too much.

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djcregan
11-17-2015, 01:40 AM
Subroutine. Your right it could be just a case of changing a value. Relative to the X axis. Any ideas ?


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gfacer2
11-17-2015, 01:42 AM
Subroutine. Your right it could be just a case of changing a value. Relative to the X axis. Any ideas ?


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Sorry, I'll need to get mine first [emoji2]

Does it not list the code on the control as it is running it. Might see it there.

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djcregan
11-17-2015, 01:45 AM
Yes. I will look this morning when I get there. Forgot how you see the code but will work it out.


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gfacer2
11-17-2015, 02:11 PM
Ok so back to log. I was able to have HSD confirm the spindle is both an actual model and that it has ceramic ceramic bearings. Not at all sure why they would have multiple model numbers for what seem to essentially be the same spindle but whatever just happy to report that the spindle now move to the approved list.

gfacer2
11-20-2015, 12:05 PM
OK so after a few days without contact, I now have some pictures of the wiring but just the paper label on the rolls. I've asked for pics of the labeling on the actual wire itself. Hopefully we can get this build moving now (curious to see where they have gotten to already too.

Anyhow, been cleaning the shop and trying to decide where to shoehorn this thing in,

gfacer2
11-23-2015, 02:47 AM
So still waiting on more details on the wire. It's definitely not to spec as per the PO and I am more than a little annoyed about it. I gather it is UL listed as the UL file number on the label of the roll matches the UL listing. Jack has said that nothing is written on the wires but on at least one roll there clearly is writing on the wire.

The build in progress shows wiring (loose - not yet in chain) yet nothing has been approved as per the terms we agreed on and I thought they understood.

I have currently asked for 1) close ups of the labels with UL numbers visible (so I can do more research) 2)copies of the labels shipped with the machine (though I will likely need to clarify that) 3)scanned copies of the labels in asap (in case #2 is missing when the machine arrives) and 4) a generally reminder of what was on the PO and how he's not paying attention to the 'do not install anything until approved' and that he's on the hook for any costs to redo.

gfacer2
11-25-2015, 12:42 PM
At this point it is fair to say communication has hit a real snag. I still have no details on the wire, though I have been promised it twice 'today', nor any explanation on why wires are seen in the build photo that were not approved. I have instructed Jack (for what it is worth at this point) to cease any work on the machine until this is sorted out. I've also advised that the potential second order for a duplicate machine for our other shop is in jeopardy. FYI, I paid extra for the UL wire, so it should not be a case of 'you get what you pay for'.

For the UL wire I have asked for scanned copies of the wire spool labels and the actual wire spool labels sent with the machine. I've also reminded them of the need to approve the new relays and switch.

gfacer2
11-26-2015, 12:11 AM
OK, now if Jack had just taken the pictures I asked to start with, we could have skipped the last 2 posts. As it turns out all the wires (that I have seen so far) do have the specs on the sheathing as specified in the PO.

So all is goodish, though the lack of communication and clear lack of comprehension on the significance or the wiring has left me a tad uneasy but on a technical level, things are back on track it seems.

So next up is to confirm shielding on wires going to the motor controls and spindle. And get a picture of the correct relay for the vacuum.

Have I mentioned this is tedious yet? Pics on next post.

gfacer2
11-26-2015, 12:15 AM
OK Build as at Nov 20 (ie start of wiring issue).

299056

Cabinet as at Nov 20

299058

Wires:

299060299062299064299066299068299070

gfacer2
12-02-2015, 03:08 AM
Ugg, another 10 days and a few random photos of wires (not showing the shielding as asked, not showing writing, not even showing where I'm looking on the machine). Jack is becoming very slow to respond. He also seems to send information at the end of his day, when I can't possibly respond. If he sent it before noon, I'd see it and be able to respond.

And if I respond during his off hours, I never seem to get a response back.

Frustrating.

PS told Jack about thread. I thought someone from Omni would be monitoring but maybe not.

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gfacer2
12-03-2015, 12:55 AM
OK, after our little skype chat, the flood gates have opened. Note - none of the issues I was last waiting on (showing shielding and the vacuum pump relay) have been addressed. They may not be able to get the right relay or they don't understand so I am going to take a photo of my current set up to help that along.

The other sort of big issue is that they added a t-slot to the table which was specifically mentioned not to do. Jack quickly offered to replace it but I am going to consider keeping it first.

Anyhow pictures away:

299776 299778 299780

299782 299784 299786

299788 299790 299792

299794 299796 299798

299800 299802 299808

299804 299792 299806

299810 299812 299814

dmannock
12-09-2015, 09:50 PM
Welcome to the real world of the assembly plant known as Jinan Omni. Their techs are trained in house, the sales and tech staff do not understand technical issues.
The sales staff use translation software on TM too much. They should be literate in a foreign language to understand the tech issues, but while they say they understand, they do not. They expect buyers to gut and rebuild the machines for commercial use in N. America. I suggest you contact David Lee at TTS Global and get an inspection organized before you pay the balance owing. David Lee did a fantastic report for me. Omni would in my opinion deny knowing their own mothers if they could get away with it.

dmannock
12-09-2015, 10:35 PM
I did UL/CSA too. I provided everything required and they still couldn't get it right. The ground wires in one control panel build were black!! So remember the international wiring colour codes. Once you have the machine if the wires and cables are undersized, you might want to swap them out, send them back and ask for a refund. They will give you the machine that they can build to the lowest $, not they machine specified in your discussions or your contract with them. They are losing repeat customers because of the hassle IMHO. "You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."

There are good ampacity and other tables here (I told Omni about this):

Wiring Color Codes : Color Codes - Electronics Textbook (http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/reference/chpt-2/wiring-color-codes/)
Power Wiring Color Codes (http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/power-wiring-color-codes-d_1687.html)
American Wire Gauge table and AWG Electrical Current Load Limits with skin depth frequencies and wire breaking strength (http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm)
Wire Gauges - Current Ratings (http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wire-gauges-d_419.html)
Electrical Motor - Full Load Current (http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/elctrical-motor-full-load-current-d_1499.html)
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/maximum-current-copper-aluminum-wire-d_1690.html
http://www.powerstream.com/wire-fusing-currents.htm
https://www.eol.ucar.edu/rtf/facilities/isff/LOCAL_access_only/Wire_Size.htm
http://myelectrical.com/notes/entryid/207/iec-60287-current-capacity-of-cables-an-introduction
http://myelectrical.com/notes/entryid/8/three-phase-power-simple-calculations

Got my wire and cable at Wesbell wire & cable in the USA. Your local city inspection service can do an ETL inspection for $500 CDN. Dave

gfacer2
12-10-2015, 02:35 AM
Dave, with all due respect, I've never been clear how you could have researched these machines and still thought you could get a very specific result with communication as your only ally. What did the inspection tell you that you did not already know was an issue?

dmannock
12-10-2015, 05:17 PM
Gfacer2, I received replies to my Alibaba, etc RFQ from 60 factories, received 3 fake UL certificates, got exactly the same stories about how CE was OK + quality from each one. Talked to them about law, liability, insurance. Each one knew the standard. Having been ready to buy twice and having to contact the UL, I finally limited to three factories. All had good reputations, but I could not afford to go to China. With hind site, I should have paid for an agent there. It would have been much easier. This has been a very difficult process for me with a sales manager who claimed to have good English skills. I have been very thorough technically, but the sales manager's poor communication with his untrained techs seems to be at the heart of the problem + the usual greed. Things that were discussed, but were deliberately omitted from the contract have been a source of frustration. We are now arguing over excess freight fees with Brightways as the container is being inspected by customs in Vancouver. DDU means that they should be paying excess fees for shipping and haulage including fork lift delivery, but (oooppps!) they did not understand???. The sales manager has tried to be clever too many times and has been caught again and again and was finally disciplined at the beginning of 2015. However, I think that he may be a relative of the factory owner and so will continue doing international sales!

I see from your contract that you have included more details and a timeline (but without penalties for late delivery). I only missed a few things on your list. This was my first and hopefully last direct purchase, but I know that Cancam have experienced some similar problems and have to visit about twice a year for machines that they rebuild and certify in Burlington, ON. I have had the Minister for International Trade and the Chinese Embassy in Ottawa contact Sunny Sun. They did not like this and I suspect are getting pay back. The inspection was very thorough. If you PM me with your email I will send it to you. My inspection set a new company standard and will doubtless be used as an example that TTS Global will send out to potential customers. I am suggesting to Omni that they cease exporting until they sort out these communication and technical problems. If they cannot understand in several foreign languages and do not know the simplest electrical engineering or safety standards in the market to which they are exporting, then they should not export, Dave

djcregan
12-11-2015, 03:07 PM
Hi
Not sure what all the fuss is about and don't really have the time to investigate. What I would say is this:

The photos Gfacer has posted look very similar indeed to my 1325 machine. Except mine is linear ATC.
On the whole even with the problems Enoch were mainly due to my lack of experience and what I feel is a hard to understand syntec manual. Also I got nothing Omni specific.

That said the machine has far exceeded expectations and would have no hesitation buying another,
which I probably will.

Being realistic for the price, these machines are incredible value for money.



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dmannock
12-11-2015, 05:48 PM
You are in the UK, so CE marks are OK, although there is no guarantee that your parts and wiring are to BS or EEC standards. Beware fire hazards. In Canada UL/CSA extended tests are required for safety reasons. UL/CSA/ETL/TUV-R specifies that the wires and cables must contain fire suppressants and be self-extinguishing. The same is true for plastic parts and the contact materials for conduction must meet similar high standards. The Chinese try to avoid this, but could get an ETL equivalent mark in China for $1000USD for a series of machines. Jinan Omni make mechanically good machines, but do not want to go the whole way. This is true for many other CNC machinery companies in China, even when UL/CSA certified parts and materials are made there or in S. E. Asia. They do not want to know about the regulations in the marketplace into which they are selling and expect the end user to refit the machine. The law here states that the supplier must do this. I am going to close down these loopholes in a report to the federal government that may solve the import/export imbalance in North America. It will not massively increase the price of Chinese goods, but will increase our population's safety.

Without these safety marks a Master electrician will not connect the machine to the mains supply. You cannot do this yourself, it is illegal and there are heavy fines and prison sentences. Also, we can't get valid insurance on the commercial work space without these marks, consequently in the event of an accident or fire we could lose everything, including the house and vehicle. It's best just to comply and be covered.

gfacer
12-11-2015, 06:23 PM
Just to make a point, however, a lot of US made machines are probably not CSA approved as a whole (nor necessarily wired 100% correctly for gauge and colors, etc), although their component parts might be. Same, more obviously, with European machines.

For example, on this Omni, one of the items we haven't checked for UL/CSA compliance is the HSD spindle....because if its not, we still want it anyway.

My CNT router made in the US, may or may not be compliant as a whole, but it hasn't proved to be a problem for any electrician yet.

Insurance and building inspectors are of the greatest concern if you choose to worry about it as much as a bureaucrat might.

Bottom line is that if you need CSA / UL, you need to find a company willing to do that. Omni was not, we asked....but paying double for a reseller of similar machines who would then charge extra to certify seemed a poor choice as well.

djcregan
12-11-2015, 06:45 PM
Well. I wish you well.


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gfacer2
12-11-2015, 07:00 PM
Yes, I am 100% sure my Camtech is not UL/CSA certified as an assembly and it is a Canadian machine made in 2000. I also know if does not use 100% correct colour codes on the wiring. No one has had an issue. Not electricians (though it is on a plug anyhow - I just tell them the plug I need), not insurance inspectors. I've not had an electrical inspector in as I had the building approved before I moved anything in.

I won't even get into the shop built acrylic benders we use.

I will remain forever more worried about space heaters than about my router.

dmannock
12-11-2015, 07:02 PM
You're a bit behind the news. The UL & CSA settled this issue in court 4-5 years ago. They now accept each other's marks. Yes, the HSD spindle and the Becker vacuum pump only have CE but are very high quality items. Here they do worry about certification, but ETL inspection costs are cheap at $375. I did bother Omni with UL/CSA taught them and sent them the parts. Gfacer2 seems to have one machine on the way with some UL parts/wiring. I found 2 other companies to do this, but the greedy person at Omni got my attention. A machine built in China to that standard can be certified by Intertek with an ETL mark for $1000 in China and that cost can be spread over several machines or it can be done locally as above. Electricians: No, here they must carry insurance and be a Gold seal Master electrician. They carry liability for the electrical installation. You do not need to pay double for a CE marked machine from an illegal Canadian distributor. They bear the cost of refitting and inspection by law. This isn't optional. Report any that tell you otherwise, they know what they are doing is illegal. You do not need a UL/CSA mark, there are other options as explained above for a machine fitted to UL/CSA standard. ETL is not nearly as expensive as either the UL or CSA. Local tool stores selling big CNC machines do this here. Omni know this. I sent them an Intertek quote.

As for being a bureaucrat, the following situation is worth considering: Your business catches fire, everything burns to the ground and you destroy/damage neighbouring busnesses/homes. If your machines are legal, then your insurance company should pay out. If not, everyone will be after you and you and your family may have to move into a one room apartment and visit the food bank every week. I understand that road kill and squirrel meat are real tasty if that helps you! lol

gfacer2
12-11-2015, 07:09 PM
dmannock, please start your own thread if you want to insult us and tell us that we will be in dire straights because of hypothetical situations.

dmannock
12-11-2015, 07:13 PM
8mm steel, you may get 6mm for a lot of it. My inspection showed this by micrometer. Also, I have read that not all of the seams joining the legs and the table are welded.

dmannock
12-11-2015, 07:19 PM
I'm not trying to insult you. The inspection of the building and the equipment are 2 separate issues. You are probably right about the space heaters too. It is possible to use the machines without getting them certified. That is your choice and that's fine by me.

gfacer2
01-14-2016, 06:19 PM
Ok - so its been a while. I can't say that I am feeling great things about Omni but not for major things. Just simple poor response.

To back track a bit. They put on a combination T-slot/vacuum table. No a huge deal but not to the PO or their PI. They offered to replace it immediately but I said I would think about keeping it. I did, for a day, and they decided to have it full vacuum as requested. I've never used Tslot and don't plan to start and it reduces my flexibility and quality of vacuum zones.

Well that was back on Dec 14th or so. Finally by the first week of January the table was actually being replaced. They went from offering to replace to the longest heel dragging of this whole purchase. I had to bug/pester/threaten bad PR/etc etc. and finally it went to Jack's boss who I guess said 'fine' and then it was underway.

So the moral of the story is if they give you the run around, ask if that is what their boss said too.

They also have not really figured out my 70amp relay that I need for my vacuum pump. They did rig something up but I do not think its right. I am hoping that I at least will get a trigger in the control that my electrician can use for a proper relay.

At any rate, I've now paid for the machine and waiting to confirm the shipping arrangements. The way the CAD is going, my price was increasing hundreds a week over the last few weeks.

Anyhow - need to get it on a boat as my current machine is out of here in 2 weeks (though its only 1 building away and I am sure I can buy some time on it if I want).

gfacer2
02-05-2016, 07:37 PM
OK, its on a boat (as of Monday). Just before the Chinese new year holiday so that was the good part. No crate (too high they say) but I'm not overly concerned as they aren't that fragile. Anyhow - more to come when it arrives.

gfacer2
03-11-2016, 03:01 PM
Finally it's here! Before I write up a detailed description of everything I have get it running.

Here is picture of the wiring lugs. 312004

On the left is the main power as this is going to the switch on the cabinet. What I can't decide is what the other 2 sets of lugs is for and if I power them off the incoming wire, where they would be switched.

Grounding is on a lug outside that connects to a Grounding bar inside so thats clear enough.


Anyone have some thoughts?

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gfacer2
03-11-2016, 03:22 PM
OK looks like those lugs on the right are outgoing. They seem to be fed from relays that in turn are fed from the outgoing side of the main switch.

Maybe for the vacuum pump? Except there are 2 of them...

Here's the relays (right 2 marked D18) http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/03/11/0720ff14e64909ac3e68f69fea675ddc.jpg.



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LeeWay
03-11-2016, 04:11 PM
Umm. All one color wire. Neatly done though. No thoughts other than to just pop the covers off and physically trace each wire. They will probably have continuity and or resistance to each other, but that won't tell you a lot.
No schematic with it?

Even one drawn on a napkin would be helpful. :)

Congrats too.
Look forward to seeing more about it.

gfacer2
03-11-2016, 04:30 PM
As I told others, no schematic expected. They are labelled well though.

I think I'll get the main power on and see if those 2 click when I try the vacuum zones...

But yeah lots of red (maybe because I got UL rated wire so they used 1 spool wherever they could)

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gfacer2
03-11-2016, 06:02 PM
OK So I'm going to just start somewhere and keep talking.

Packing: Minimal - which I knew but this did end up creating some damage during un stufffing and loading on to my truck. Specifically one of the hard stops was broken and also the sheet metal cover on one side of the gantry was bashed (enough that the screws popped their heads off). I think that the motor under is OK but I don't have power just yet.

I've left off the feet for now as I'm pretty level already and my jack doesn't fit under the machine. I can figure it out if I want to but I figure no harm in leaving it at the moment if its level.

So I'll break out some sections"

Frame: The gantry upright is about 18mm thick steel (and a box - can't measure the other wall though) and the cross beam is 8mm steel. The machine frame is significantly thinner though just as big of a tube. I estimate about 4-5 mm thick walls on the frame and 6mm on the legs. So even though the frame is a little lighter than I thought, overall I think its still more that fine and I was surprised at the thickness on the gantry uprights. Its hard to tell if the uprights and cross member of the gantry are milled flat or shimmed so I'll save any judgement on that.

Limit switches/travel - proximity switches all around - in retrospect I should have asked for mechanical. Metal tab (that the limit reads) was bent when the hard stop was knocked off at the warehouse. The other note on the limits is they are very very close to the end of the rail as in were likely lined up by going to the end of the rails and then installing them. The router is hanging over the edge by that point and so there is no need to bring it that close to the edge. They are also basically at the hard stop, when they should have at least a bit of a gap. If they do, its under a 1/4". This is probably the biggest surprise so far.

More to come.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/03/11/6f17582c2ecde1ffb8dcde7846434751.jpg

djcregan
03-11-2016, 06:09 PM
These two sets of lugs will be for the vacuum and the dust extraction. That's what mine are anyway


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gfacer2
03-11-2016, 06:10 PM
These two sets of lugs will be for the vacuum and the dust extraction. That's what mine are anyway


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Awesome - Thanks! - Not that they are big enough for my vacuum but as long as they get the relay signal we can sort that out. I've run so long without dust I forgot all about it!

djcregan
03-11-2016, 06:13 PM
0,0 on my machine is -45,-45 from cornet of table


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gfacer2
03-11-2016, 09:05 PM
OK, So electrician is coming Monday here's what I've done so far to commission it:

1) unpacked the tool holders and cleaned off the oil and applied loctite to the HSD toolchanger studs (or half of them at least).
2) Bought oil and filled automatic lube tank (trying 15-40 motor oil to start)
3) connected it to the air system (they seem to use auto draining water filters, which are good but might need to be changed out if its putting too much load on the compressor.
4) mapped the vacuum zones (with a sharpie on the side of the cabinet)
5) Cleaned the packing grease off the rails.
6) ran an ethernet cable from the switch to the Syntec controller.

And that's it so far.

Problems forseen/mods are:

1) dust shoe and debris rail. I think this will also be an issue on this machine but hard to say until sacrificial layer is on.
2) end of table - switch from sheet metal cover of air solenoids to see through plastic (and maybe held on with magnets.
3) redo what I think is a tool holder vice, its pretty loose. Might just use a regular vice as on my prev. machine
4) er32 wrench - its a pretty poor specimen so I think a new proper one is in order.


I'll try and post some more pics later but the fun will be next week when I have power.

gfacer2
03-12-2016, 12:44 AM
OK some more pics.... Just mainly to show build quality. Overall it's about what expected for build quality (visually).

The finish is rough, the paint just barely OK and has odd touch ups, the welds are spattered and at times only done on 3 out of 4 sides with some gaps.

But overall it looks solid.

Also a shot of the vacuum plumbing because no one ever seems to do an underneath shot.

And while I'm thinking of it, the rack section are longer than I thought they would be. I saw a similar machine at a trade show and the rack was in maybe 16- 18" pieces, but these are at least 24-26" (5pc on 10' bed).

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/03/11/2ffdc09ae2922c6d8c17e674ba58df28.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/03/11/c5383d1006bc5ec935fe6ac47f1ea4a9.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/03/11/fd89ee9900c9876ca14795c3477e7a81.jpg

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/03/11/0239cc0fa1fdbb6dad2107781448610c.jpg

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/03/11/5130677bff424a5343d2bec52d6dac92.jpg

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/03/11/fb1995499dfa0976fb8396f060156141.jpg

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gfacer2
03-15-2016, 12:29 AM
Unfortunately not a lot of progress today, the electricians house was hit by a tree so he was busy with an adjuster.

In the meantime I discovered I am too close to one wall as the tool changer sticks out further than I thought it would (7.5" more...). Unfortunately I discovered this 3 days after my ability to move it left. So I've got a call back to them... Anyhow, still hoping to get power to it tomorrow and maybe rejig the vacuum zones and get ldf for the table top.



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gfacer2
03-16-2016, 02:41 AM
Ok Electrian showed up (briefly) - just enough to empower me to try and run some temporary juice - which I did successfully (once I figured how to turn it on - I thought the on/off switch was it - but I didn't realize their was a button the front too! Its the little things that get you when you have no documentation!

Anyhow so here is what I accomplished:

1) jogged all the axis and figured out how to home them.
2) got the ethernet working for file transfer.
3) Eventually got a tool to touch off (and then found out the battery was dead in the wireless sensor - one e-stop later).
4) broke my first tool holder clip. Not sure exactly how it happened but I had another incident later where I basically lost a step on the carousel (so 1 was 8, 2 went to 1 etc).
5) cut some air and then a little bit of foam (still well away from the vacuum table as the spoilboard is not on). Early indications are its squared up fine.
6) managed to get oil leaking all over from excess going to some of the bearings- I'll have to figure out how to tone down the automatic lubrication.
7) Increased the jog speed to about 1200ipm and tried it up to almost 3000ipm (not happy at that but 2000ipm was OK).
8) confirmed spindle speed was accurate for controller vs actual
9) located some material for the spoilboard (ultraboard low density fiberboard).
10) Tweaked the post processor to end in a better position to unload (it stayed in place before) - some more tweaks to come on that I think.

Tomorrow - hopefully I'll get the tool touch offs nailed down a bit better and then on Thursday start rejigging the vacuum zones.

But hey - at least I managed to not run into the wall yet!

djcregan
03-16-2016, 10:06 AM
Don't feel bad, over a period of 1 month I broke all my tool clips (holders) and ended up making my own as Omni want a lot for them.

There a Taiwan company that charges 24USD each.

Mine is linear though ?

Here's the instructions for setting up oil lube, it took me ages to get this out of Omni.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/87yvcmim6roieke/oil%20pump%20time%20set%20up.pdf?dl=0

It's a hell of a job to set the right delivery. Still haven't mastered it. Let me know how you get on.

By the way.

Resuming
You may have worked it out but you can stop a programme, record the "start block" number. Go back and type the block number, press cycle start and the machine will go from there.


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gfacer2
03-16-2016, 10:26 AM
Thanks David, I'll keep at it.

Thanks for the oil, what oil are you running? Right now I'm trying 15w-40 motor oil but I know some people have used gear oil (about 75w).

As for the hold, I think I can pause, jog spindle up, stop the spindle, (clean bit in a real life situation) and then restart the spindle and hit cycle start and it will resume. Have to remember to start the spindle though.

I know it's asking a lot but any chance or sharing the file for the tool clips?



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gfacer2
03-17-2016, 02:30 AM
OK so not as much action today.

Assessed the vacuum table and its pipe sizing, which I think is inadequate for my regen style vacuum. It has 8 zones with 1" pipe which doesn't come near the capacity of the pumps 3" inlet. Planning to go to larger pipes, maybe with some manual blast gates to turn on and off to be replaced in the future by solenoids if it's all working.

The table and the number of holes seems fine, it's just the plumbing bottlenecks the system immediately and the valves were sized after the bottleneck. So first note is to spec out 2" valves and plumbing under the table unless using a becker styles low cam, high vacuum system (should be fine for that).

I posted this elsewhere but how have others experienced the stock table, am I over engineering this?

Also got material for spoil board but I guess that's a bit premature.

Not much else today.

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gfacer2
03-17-2016, 08:21 PM
OK today I tore apart the existing vacuum system and began up sizing things. Keeping existing zones as I think I'll cover the top rather than close many zones.

I started basically from the holes in the table and the added an abs pipe system underneath, the holes in the table were approx. 1.375" so I used 1.5" for each hole feeding into a 2" abs pipe that will have a stub out to some 2" id flexible pipe and then to another 2" stub out from a 3" abs manifold and from there 3" to the pump.

Here's before and during (after to come after ☺)

312782

312784

312786

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gfacer2
03-19-2016, 02:21 AM
A bit further on the vacuum table. I really hopes this helps someone spec their machine better as its a pain.

And wired up... 312942

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gfacer
03-19-2016, 11:19 AM
This is true for those using a regenerative blower, the original was probably fine for a Becker or Becker style pump.

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djcregan
03-19-2016, 01:32 PM
I just used 15w - 40, it probably doesn't matter which is used. The tool clip - mine is iso 20, I think yours will be bigger than this ?


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gfacer2
03-19-2016, 03:50 PM
I just used 15w - 40, it probably doesn't matter which is used. The tool clip - mine is iso 20, I think yours will be bigger than this ?


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Yes it is, no worries. I can get from Laguna on eBay for $30 in US.

I might try a mix of gear oil and 15/40.

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gfacer2
03-22-2016, 12:27 PM
OK got 6 of the 8 zones hooked up (flexible tubing was not flexible enough on the short runs). I made some mistakes so this is likely going to need some tweaking but should work for the moment. And FYI, it was a total PITA - worse than I expected really.

Seem to have finally figured out the auto tool touch off (see syntec lee's thread). Should be ready to put the spoilboard on and start cutting shortly (like when I catch up a little on the desk).

Then I can start on the smaller things.

gfacer2
03-23-2016, 07:30 PM
OK, still only 6 zones hooked up but working on the spoil board today.

Working on getting some help from omni to reprogram the syntec. The factory settings are overly minimal in spots. I should be able to turn the relay on for my vacuum and dust collection with an m code but none are set up past what the tool changer needed. Even the usual ones aren't set up, like coolant mist/flood even though they hooked up the vacuum to the air/mist button.

Also the dust hood is not yet controllable by gcode though it was in the contract. Hoping we can get all these sorted out with an updated configuration file of some kind. Basically ideally I want m code to trigger the vacuum, dust collection, dust hood, and trigger a few empty relays for possible future use (air clamps or such).

Anyhow a few pictures.

I hope to get a good amount of test cutting done tonight on my regular materials.

313632

Oh and I tried a tramming indicator on it. A little off but we'll see with the milled spoil board.

313634







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gfacer2
03-24-2016, 02:14 AM
Ugg - Ok so its cutting fine but I still have an issue with the auto tool height. Well I think its more a combination of things. 1) is the sensor and its mounting bracket are a little off level and a little flexible. Not a lot but a little. There is because of this or due to the sensor itself a bit of variation on the measurement. Mostly in the .05-7mm +/- range over 3 tests I did (so up to .14mm between 1st and 3rd) - not horrid but not great. However my largest router bit (for surfacing the table) seems to have the most variation. Its up to .55mm - which is on the horrible side. The probe is supposed to be in the .01mm accuracy (per ebay).

I suspect this might have to do with slight rotation of the cutters combined with the slightly off plane sensor. The practical result is that my table should be '0' for all cutters and as it was cut with the large bit at its '0' then all the other should be skimming the surface. But right now in testing the next bit comes in to its height offset '0' and its cutting into the table slightly (spoilboard so not a big deal overall). But if I move or alter the sensor arrangement then I need to redo parameter 3411 which need access to the vacuum grid (now underneath the spoilboard).

ok - I just checked - yeah its out of plane more than I thought (also note that it won't work well for large bits as the bit really needs to be under the diameter of the pad (which this bit is not). The steel angle that the probe sits on really should be a tube for rigidity.

Anyhow on the great news side of things (and more relevent for anyone considering buying a machine), Jack was great tonight with Albert in Tech support in getting m-codes set up for my vacuum blower and dust collector. Still trying to get a few more things assigned m-codes but they were great and fast (once I convinced them it was possible and shouldn't be very hard). So on a practical level, this means I can set up a large time consuming job and leave it unattended if needed and the vacuum will turn itself off. Also really helps you know when the job is done as the spindle noise can get lost under the vacuum.

gfacer2
03-24-2016, 03:55 AM
Ok I found a work around for the errant tool situation. Basically since I only use the big one to skim the board I don't worry about the height too much. Once I've skimmed I then zero another tool to the top of the spoilboard - in theory any other tool should work. Then I look at the values and basically adjust the external shift z to match what the spoil board actually is (but using another tool to do it rather than calipers of such). Worked like a charm.

And with that I shall consider basic commissioning done. Now maybe some videos next and a full summary of the process - reflections - changes I would make - the grand finale to this set of posts (unless anyone has questions - feel free).

djcregan
03-24-2016, 11:31 AM
Hi Graham. Very informative and eloquently explained. Well done! I would love to set up the vacuum and blower in the same way so if you can share that would be great. Have you tried the tool tip measure routine built into the controller F3 -offsetting > F3 - Tool tip measure ? I've never had much success with it.


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gfacer2
03-24-2016, 02:55 PM
Hi Graham. Very informative and eloquently explained. Well done! I would love to set up the vacuum and blower in the same way so if you can share that would be great. Have you tried the tool tip measure routine built into the controller F3 -offsetting > F3 - Tool tip measure ? I've never had much success with it.


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No - haven't bothered trying it again. The touch off routine seems better for what I typically do. Thanks for your help with the post processor BTW. I should mention the changes I made (and I may post it in a post here). Basically I modified it so it doesn't start at home and it now turns the vacuum and dust off (on is still manual at the moment) and finally I make the head go to the end of the table for both unloading (as mine is in an alcove) and so any oil that might drip will not go on to the table from the Z rails. I've been trying to add code to move the head up to safe z at the start but can't seem to find a code that works yet. Anyhow I'll likely post the post processor here or maybe in the vectric forums once I tweak it (and try to make an inches one).

I've actually done one in inches already but I need to switch back to mm for the tool touch off as it doesn't like something. I think there might be a way in the G code to switch it to inches and then back again but I have yet to attempt it. Its in the 'good enough' stage where these things rapidly go down on the priority list.

gfacer2
03-25-2016, 12:40 AM
OK - so on to some actual job like cutting this evening (and some likely will be jobs if they reorder). So my tests were on sintra (letters for signage) - totally fine, some lines where the passes of different depth were but I was using chinese bits so it might be them. I think the spindle is slightly off kilter too though. Not worse than my last one but worth noting. But on a commercial level - totally fine.

The next up was some 3/4" acrylic. Well the first attempt was bad as I had mistyped a spindle speed of 20000 as 2000. I should have caught it as it didn't sound like the spindle was on but I checked and it was so I let it run - opps. Anyhow - one fresh (expensive) bit later, it cut really nice and smooth. Excellent finish but - there had to be a but right?- the diagonals did have sort of chatter bumps. I used to think they were chatter on the last machine but now I'm not sure. I'll have to look into it. Still its OK or at better than my last machine. If anything its a good test to see if it might be something other than the machine - like vcarve - but I doubt it. The marks are consistent piece to piece (ie they line up).

I finished with an aircraft part we've done. Its a long running (relatively) job with pockets all over part and relatively high tolerances given the material (HDPE) and I ran the stink out of it. The results were OK. I was running too fast (450 imp on the clear outs of the pockets) and so it chipped out on the bottom of the pocket once in a while. The depth of the table also showed some variation but so did my last table. The biggest issue for the machine set up was that I had auto tool touch off engaged by accident and the new height for the finishing pass bit was noticeably higher. So for precision work I might need to set the tool heights by feel or at least double check them.

So the machine passed on everything though maybe not with flying colours. I'd give it a B+/B/B for the jobs I ran.

I will admit I was hoping for better results on the acrylic (or flatter - the actual finish of the edge was suberb). Still you can see all that mass in action when it jogs between parts at over 1000 ipm and has less of jerk then my old machine did at 300.

Anyhow - vacuum table seems to be alright too so far so I'll probably get some production on it on Monday.

gfacer2
03-25-2016, 12:55 AM
Some pics... http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160324/8adabf448bc1db01961acbf4bdf909ed.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160324/abeb9070ee7664935cff54bc1485047d.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160324/5b0a24450e31afdcce1f125efdd75651.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160324/d6825d53f9833a9cc9429ab03a7f8580.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160324/661fbefd33c04406ef14f09961aaf103.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160324/7a51e984c6166314cf8c0f1d12969109.jpg

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gfacer2
03-28-2016, 01:37 PM
Ok - so there is some issue on the smoothness of the cutting when on a diagonal. I just recut the thick acrylic shape above in 1/4" and then did 3 different orientations. One was a copy where the diagonal was lined up on the x axis (withing .0004 at least in the programming). It was ok on the diagonal though not 100% - ie still some little waves. However when you cut it so the shapes diagonal is aligned, then the 'straight' bits on the part are now being cut on the diagonal (from the machine perspective). That introduced wavy bits that were not there before.

So I think I'll cut some diamond shapes (all diagonals) and see if I can narrow this down a bit. I have a few possibilities:

1) Old collet causing jitter - lots of my 1/4" collets would be old (ancient even) and abused.
2) Flex in the bit - though that is a lot less likely in the 1/4" acrylic sample I think. But still only a 1/4" bit. I did try it in some ultralight MDF (leftover table) and I can't see the waves though on one I might be able to feel them slightly. I'd have to get a 1/2" bit or such to test this more.
3) G-code errors - v-carve has had some issues in the past (like nesting) where it is clear that simple shapes are not always what they are trying to optimize. These shapes are dead simple so I think its unlikely here and the gcode seemed fine to the casual eye.
4) Mechical slop or variations in the linear bearings or another mechanical issue.

My gut says its combination of 1 and 2 and maybe a little bit of 4. The waves are in the .005 range near as I can tell (but its not that easy to measure).

The way to test #1 is to get a new collet, #2's test is a 1/2" bit and #3's test is basically going to be rotating the shapes and seeing what changes. - if nothing look harder at the code - if lots look harder at the machanicall bits and bearings.

I've ordered new collets because BTW not a single 1/4" collet was included - the omni selection was interesting but a lot of large sizes like 16mm and 20mm - but only about a 1/3 of them will be used though I suppose I can sell them.

gfacer2
03-28-2016, 04:13 PM
As per my brother's comments I checked backlash on the x and y and it seems to be in the .001" range though not 100% sure I'm doing it right. The only odd thing though is that I moved the controller to inches units for the test as that is what the dial indicator I have is in. When I do a circle of the dial .1" in .010 steps (100x on the MPG) then I seem to get .101" - not sure if the same thing happens in mm but it looks like the conversion is ever so slightly off. Anyhow backlash seems minimal and its a diagonal not a circle I don't think its a significant contributor to this issue.

Next step is a new collet and to reorder a beefier bit. Collet first as the beefier bit is $100.

OK I tried another collet I had kicking around that looked more recent and pretty much the same results. I tried a smaller bit and the finish on that was pretty poor and also bumpy.

That might be the most testing I do until I get the new collets in (ebay so it will take a while). Until then I'll get some jobs and get a feel for things that way (and maybe flatten out the tool change sensor).

gfacer2
03-28-2016, 08:02 PM
OK so no closer yet but I did check one other thing with the dial indicator which was deflection of the spindle head as measured at the bit, under pressure - that was more than expected. It deflected up to .01" under pressure along the X (side to side of gantry) though only about .005" on the Y. I was expecting less and I'm a little worried that the tool changer's weight and vibration could cause issues as it decelerates and turns. However, while I am concerned about that, the little the waves are not where you would expect them to be (just after the change in direction) if that was the issue here. I also switched to conventional cutting from climb which might have reduced it slightly.

....later on... apparently I did not actually post the above so I'll just add on.

I just tried a new 1/2" collet and a freshly sharpened 1/2" router bit (just a regular straight edge from the porter cable). Still have waves. So I then depowered the machine and moved the axis by hand. The x axis definitely is not as smooth as it could be. If I just get it moving side to side as lightly as possible it does find spots to lock up. I can easily get out of the bind with a little more pushing but I think that's likely the main cause of the waves. When I have a minute I will try flushing out the bearing blocks a bit with a long oil cycle. Y axis seems to have some of the same but not as bad because of the momentum involved which overcomes the little hiccups more easily.

gfacer2
03-28-2016, 08:45 PM
Yep its the bearings binding slightly at points. I went with the theory that momentum is the enemy of light binding friction so I speed up the finishing pass on the acrylic from 150ipm to 350ipm. The cut was still smooth but there was some microchipping of the kind you normally get when you cut acrylic too fast but way way smoother for the waves (like I wouldn't notice at all normally and as it was it was just a hint). Tried again at 300ipm trying to find a happy medium where I can elimate the waves and get no chip out but the waves were slightly noticable again and the chipping was only 99% elimanated. Still probably close enough for now. Here's to hoping the bearings wear smooth whatever is bothering them... Pretty sure its on the rail rather than the blocks but nothing obvious to the naked eye.

gfacer2
03-31-2016, 01:51 AM
OK so still trying to address the wave issue. I haven't tackled anything mechanically because I can't exactly take off the rails and realign them and I don't really think that is necessary.

Tomorrow I'm going to attempt to autotune the servos (or at least x and y). My guess is that omni didn't do it as the yaskawa servo have a adaptive non tuned setting which is default and allows basically plug and play.

I went through a bunch of parameters today (I am using the 2006 syntec application guide for another controller - 98% of the parameters seem to be the same and the descriptions in the manual are a little better than what comes up on the screen). So I tried changing 402/404 acceleration/decel (tried lowering) and 181 (x axis loop gain) I tried raising. Neither made a noticeable difference. I also tried the smoothing parameter (can't recall number) its disabled by default but I tried both extremes on the setting (1 and 5) and neither made a difference that was noticeable.

So tomorrow I'll try tuning the servos.

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gfacer2
04-01-2016, 02:08 AM
OK I did attempt to autotune the x axis. In short it did not work. I was able to get some improvements on the circle tests by changing some of the parameters based on what the autotune put out (see my other thread in servo systems for that). I also found (and refound) 2 useful screens in the Syntec. One is under parameters and then right arrow to servo tuning. This shows you the list of servo parameters that you can I guess adjust from Syntec or maybe that syntec reads from the servopack - I haven't figured out which.

The second is the axis load monitoring (can exact recall where that is right now - this is the refound screen) but it will show you load on the motors which is useful for diagnosing binding. I MPG'd the x axis around and did not see any spikes, which would typically indicate binding, so leaning towards further servo tuning and positional errors issues as the cause. I think part of this is the extra weight from the ride along tool changer but maybe I just think that because I was always worried about that weight.

I've asked Omni for idea on the circle issue but no response yet (its only been a bit).

BTW Djcregan I'd send you the ladder file if you like but I'd say its 80% likely to screw something up. You would need to have the vacuum and blower on the same buttons as me and connected to the same i/o port and basically every other button would need to be the same. I'll still try on day to see if I can get an editor working for the PLC ladder but its far in the future at the moment.

djcregan
04-11-2016, 02:32 PM
I think your right. The risk currently outweighs the benefit but thanks for the offer


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gfacer2
04-11-2016, 07:31 PM
Ok so I might as well get started on an overall review: I'll start with the ordering and PO:

I was dealing with Jack and overall he was OK to deal with. Not the most responsive at times but overall in line with my expectations. What would I change on the PO for our machine?

1) I'd really think about a linear tool changer rather than a rotary unless the rotary was at the side of the gantry and not a full ride along. I just worry that it is too much cantilevered weight and that it is or will effect the cutting - it also adds a lot of momentum to the head assembly that I'd rather avoid. I was leaning that way and should have stuck to it. The rotary is nice and fast and that's what sold it but it I had to do it again I'd go linear.

The other things I would change on the PO are 1) spare tool holders and 2) a spec that m-codes be written for the controller for all functions on the controller (dust hood I had but not vacuum hold down and dust collection). I'd also add in that any function keys should be mapped to spare relays and get M-codes for those. That just allows some add on functionality in the future. I'd also just follow there deposit schedule as despite what I wrote, we just did a deposit and payment. Any confirmations I needed I just pestered or asked until I got what I needed. 3) I'd look at mechanical limit switches rather than proximity. Just a preference really.

Next up I'll go through the PO with notes and then finish with a final thoughts section and add to those as I go. After that, just ask questions and I'll try and answer them.

gfacer2
04-11-2016, 08:13 PM
Size: A good working size slightly above the contracted 1600mm x 3100mm. I’ve not checked the Z as it is plenty high for me.

Frame/Gantry: Heavy dusty. 8mm steel as specs is not present everywhere but seems to be significantly thicker in key areas like the gantry uprights (approx 12mm). Basic lower frame and bed fame seem to be 5mm to 6mm thick steel. As everything is tubes, the rigidity should be excellent though I doubt I’ll ever put it to enough stress to test it.

Controller: Syntec 6MD - generally as expected except that they are pretty lazy setting it up. Ensure you spec that m codes are programed for every function that you want and have set up as a button. I would also then ask that the mcode for the coolant be set up (regardless of wether you ordered the coolant option) and that any spare function keys be set up on spare relays (with m codes for each). This would allow a reasonable automation electrication to add accessories you could control in the code (coolant/air clamps/pop up positioning/ DIY table unloader etc…). Overall, while I am happy with the Syntec so far I'd really really consider having it shipped without a controller (or a simple one) and then installing a centroid controller or similar if I had the time. Still - I think it would be easy to retrofit to another controller (for $5-6k still) if it ever needs it.

Working Voltage: 220v 3phase with Ground seemed to be fine.

Motor Drives/Motors: All seem to power the machine well.

Cabling/relays/switches: The main components and wiring appear to spec - ie UL listed - , though the estop that you use to shut the system off and all the switches for the vacuum zones are of a slightly lower quality. Nothing I’m too worried about.

Rack and Pinion: No brand given or visible - I got extra pinions for that reason. I should look for the brand just for notes but I doubt it will ever be changed by me.
Rails: Hiwin 30mm (HGH 30CA) Linear Bearings on all rails - they are preloaded (lowest preload class but that's fine).
Metal/Rubber Wipers on all bearings. Wipers could be better but that's more a hiwin thing than an omni thing.
Automatic oil lubrication of all bearings. Works fine though its a little messy as the light oil can drip off the Z axis and on to your parts. A wipe down as part of the start up procedure would fix this.

ATC: Carousel type 8 slots ISO 30 - auto tool calibration sensor This is not the highest end component. My dad thought he could do better welds and he might be right (and he's a novice). It works but the whole thing is a little heavy. As mentioned in the last post I'd probably do a linear rack if I had a do over.

Spindle: HSD model es929-H6161H0822 (No substitutions) They substituted.... It was fine but took a lot of leg work to confirm and I chose this spindle as they said they could get it. Still why HSD has multiple models for basically the same spindle is also part of the issue.

VFD: Delta 11KW with english manual - no manual recieved - I should ask about that. Anyhow works 100% fine.

Table: Phenolic vacuum table without T slot - 8 zone After doing it with T slot I got it without. For most people the tslot combo is a good choice but I didn't want it. overally not thrilled with the table. The channels could be a little deeper or wider and the 'margins' around each zone could be smaller. The biggest issue was the piping as it was designed for a low volume high vacuum system (as in a becker style pump) and not a high volume low pressure as a regenerative blower is. I've discussed this in the posts so just make sure it is designed for your planned pump. This is not an omni issue - this was a issue that I just neglected to think through. Also note, there is no access to the underside of the table due to the design of the frame so you have to unbolt the table and flip it over to work on it (and they are very very heavy). You do get to see the many botched tap holes that they made in the process of putting it on...

Dust Hood: Gcode controlled with air cylinder. Nope. Its on the controller but not yet in the g-code. In retrospect, on the controller is fine for me but I might have them add an m-code for it later.

Relays: Please provide one relay for UL/CSA listed 70A/220v 3 phase relay (vacuum pump) wired to and controlled by the controller via button and G code. - Not done as per spec - but I knew that by the end before I paid. They did have 2 relays set up for vacuum and dust to buttons on the controller and did (after the arrival here in Canada) add the m-codes needed to fully utilize them.

Spares parts:
4 x spare pinion gears
12 spare linear bearings
2 sets of reduction belts Got them all.


receipt of pictures of components, before installation. Specifically:
Servo motors and drives (with model and serial # visable) Yes
relays and switches (with CSA/UL listing visible) yes
wiring to be used (with CSA/UL listing visible) Eventually - yes
Spindle to be mounted (with model and serial # visable) Yes
hiwin bearings

Detailed photos of
Assembly,
machined surface on parts that will be bolted together Not really but enough other pics.
Metal shims used where needed No - but haven't found any shims yet. Sort of hard once its together to get any picture of any anyhow.
Interior of Cabinet, Yes, lots
Overall Wiring layout Yes - and it is well laid out and labeling is not ideal but starts out well (ie power supply to relays is good - but relays to destination are not good but traceable by hand).
Ground termination point They might have - it was fine though we moved it inside the cabinet.
CSA/UL labeling on wiring Yes - though it is almost all red.
Servo drives and connections. Yes
Transformers Yes
70 amp/220v relay No - its not there.
Exterior of cabinet Yes
Syntec controller Yes
Portable MPG controller Yes
Linear motion system Yes
Details of belt drive system No not really.
Bearings and rails yes
Close up of Rack and pinion Yes.
Table Yes
Size of table working area. yes
Plumbing of vacuum table Yes
location of limit switches No but they are fine. Though I might spec mechanical switches rather than proximity if I had a do over.
ATC Yes
Spindle model and serial number Yes
ATC carousel Yes
Confirmation of proper working voltage. No - sort of hard for a picture.
Video of test run with tool change, auto touch off, dust boot retracted on our machine (marked as such in the video). Yes
Confirmation of 1600mm x 3100mm working size on the table. Yes
Confirmation of square cuts on sample material. Eventually yes.

completion of loading into container with photos of pre shipping greasing and packing. No but it was OK for grease etc.

Delivery:
Machine to be ready for shipping within 35 days of order placement. No - plan on 2-3 months. No good reason but just plan on it.

gfacer2
05-31-2016, 06:09 PM
Ok so first breakdown. The timing belt sprocket on the right Y motor somehow sheared off its side wall that keeps the belt on the sprocket. Really not sure how the heck it did that but I had heard odd noises for a bit and it is the side that was knocked on delivery.

I was planning to use it as is while arranging to replace it (as the belt really shouldn't really come off anyhow) but when I went to reinstall it, both set screws stripped on the sprocket. Luckily I am back to back with a bearings and motion supplier and they have some coming tomorrow but I will need to get it machined to fit.

I could rig it to work in a pinch but the job I was trying to dial in it a little fussy on finish and I think this is what was causing the bump at the start/finish of the cut (only on some parts).

Anyhow easy enough so far to get parts and access things.

RUSTY2
05-31-2016, 07:17 PM
Sorry about your breakdown, if you need a hand or need something machined , turned,welded etc let me know

gfacer2
05-31-2016, 07:49 PM
Thanks for the offer Rusty but I think I'll be fine. We still have 2 other machines in the company after all.

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dmannock
06-06-2016, 01:59 AM
I don't know how much this will help you, but there are grades of collet and collet nut. The basic level (supplied with mine) are 1 grade above lathe std and are not good for CNC. They are in blue/yellow boxes []spindle tool collet ER25 collet chuck set 16pcs from 1 mm to 16 mm for CNC engraving milling machine spindle motor !-in Tool Holder from Industry & Business on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/ER25-collet-chuck-set-16pcs-from-1-mm-to-16-mm-for-CNC-milling-lathe-tool/1855709330.html?scm=1007.13339.33317.0&pvid=0c91fe0c-169a-4a3f-91d7-d29fc3b81c02&tpp=1), whereas the precision set I bought came in yellow plastic tubs []Page Not Found - Banggood.com (http://www.banggood.com/15pcs-ER25-2mm-16mm-Spring-Collet-Set-Chuck-Collet-for-CNC-Milling-Tool-p-996525.html). On Aliexpress []Page Not Found - Aliexpress.com (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-Quality-Useful-15Pcs-Set-2mm-16mm-ER25-Precision-Spring-Collet-For-Lathe-Chuck-For-CNC/32596012423.html). So the consumer set will get used on my lathe instead of 5Cs. Top of the line extreme precision (AAA) ER25 collets are $40US a piece for tool room CNC mills.

Collet nuts fall in to the same category, look for a nice ER##-UM nut. Compare photos on Aliexpress. The ones that I bought there were pretty darn good, much better than the supplied units. I bought two very nice packs of 2 []Page Not Found - Aliexpress.com (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-Quality-ER25-UM-nut-for-M32-1-5-ER25UM-collet-clamping-M32X1-5-ER25UM-nut/32331969381.html). The packs of 10 were not well finished. Remember they must be balanced for HS use.

Here's a list of collet TIRs. []404 - File or directory not found. (http://www.precisebits.com/tutorials/Choosing_collets.htm)

Precisionbits $40, Aliexpress $15

[http://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-precision-ER25-Accuracy-0-005mm-Spring-Collet-Set-For-CNC-milling-lathe-tool-Engraving-machine/32321469392.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_0,searchweb201602_5_10037_10017_507_10032_401,searchweb201603_9&btsid=0fbad44a-2c9a-4612-947b-82cc95efc9cd]/

gfacer2
07-30-2016, 01:29 AM
Just a quick update. Nothing much to report. Cutting well.

Some resonance on the servo I tried to tune once in a while.

Still totally satisfied. It's not 100% but I'd say 95%, and it might only be 95% for any router.

Its nice my old router is nearby, I get to see how much slower it was.

Syntec controller remains quirky but fine (sometimes loses the network and takes a few tries to find it again).

Most recent small issue was a loose sensor on the tool change piston, which stopped everything in mid change. Took a little bit to narrow that down and sort it out.



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djcregan
08-08-2016, 04:16 PM
Hi Graham. I also get the loss of network sometimes. I've also found the resume program from "x" line number can catch you out. In which case it's possible to restart and confuse the machine as to which took it has in the spindle. This can be disastrous when it goes to s tool holder to put a tool down when there is already a tool in it. Mines the linear ATC and it really does cause damage. Rebbe with this I am TOTALLY satisfied. :)


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Neurus63
08-09-2016, 11:04 AM
Hi All,

OK after lots of questions and poking around here we finally put our money down for a Omni 1530 (really 1631 fingers crossed) ATC router.

I want to document the purchase as best I can to help others. I do not know yet if I will have any pitfalls but if and when I do have them I will try and post them. I will not use this forum to mediate any issues other than as a last venting.

I am going into this knowing:

1) I will get what I pay for. So when I can buy this router at about 1/2 price from a restickered importer then I know that I am in the right range. I have compared suppliers but I have not haggled because if I get a better price I know I will get a worse machine.
2) I know it will not be ready to go out of the box. hopefully its close but it will not be where I need it to be and I expect I will need to do a fair bit of legwork to get it going properly. This is a given.
3) I know documentation will be minimal or non existant so I have researched the controls etc before committing. I expect the machine and anything else is a bonus.
4) I know to ask for pictures, and to be specific.
5) I know not to pay attention to the posted shipping costs.
6) I know there are things I don't yet know and I am on the lookout for them as we go through the process.

Anyhow I thought I would start by posting my PO to Omni and their PI back. Mine is relatively detailed, theirs is only somewhat but they should be referring to the same end machine.

I wanted to do this as I really had no idea how to write up a PO for this (really more a detailed spec sheet but anyhow) so this is my go at it. I'm going to reserve a few of the early posts for updates.

Hi, I'm in the process of buying the 1530 CNC from OMNI and I would like to know about your experience.
Is the machine working OK?
What about the shipping, everything went OK?
Is it easy to unload from a flatbed truck with a 5000 pounds forklift?
Did you find unexpected fees with the customs broker?
I'm in Las Vegas, NV, USA

Thanks

gfacer2
08-09-2016, 11:48 AM
Hi, working fine. I have had some minor issues but nothing I couldn't figure out (but I've dealt with issues before). Biggest was a drive sprocket breaking. Took a few days to get a new part and have it machined to fit.

Shipping was arranged on our side and went OK. Some hang ups but I don't recall what they were. They is always something. Fees were as expected.

We had a machine mover bring it from a port warehouse to us and position it. They use a hiab truck and machine skates. They were more expensive than I thought but they are guys I trust and do a good fast job. Too bad I told them the wrong spot and then had to move it myself (with jacks and skates) and 6" to the left.

I don't know a 5000lb forklift is enough, I wouldn't risk that myself.

If it has an ATC, get a full set of spare tool holder clips. Those are the one thing I've had to get that would have been better from the start.

Good luck

Overall, it has been good so far. I would buy another if I needed it.




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RUSTY2
08-09-2016, 03:30 PM
Hi I also bought a 1530 from Omni, I cut mostly aluminum with it no problems at all. Mine has a pneumatic tool change , water cooled spindle . here are some pics when I got it . I just put it on some car skates used my hoist to free up the bottom and skated into were i needed to put it330164330166330168

Griwa
09-19-2016, 05:21 PM
Hi gfacer, great thread and awesome detail.

I am currently working on getting an Omni CNC as well. Mine would be a 4-Axis with a fixed 5th axis rotary in rear. I learned a lot from your PO details, and am looking to get a ceramic bearing HSD as well. I'm dealing with Jack, and he seems to be most helpful. Is your spindle ISO-30? I believe I found your HSD spindle spec, and it seems that the ISO 30 only comes with steel bearings. The HSK F63 has ceramic. Feeling a bit nervous dealing with China, and getting honest answers.

http://www.hsdusa.com/bo/allegati/Files/1651_1423h0374_rev01__es929a_7.5-9_kw.pdf

I chose a linear ATC, as I want to reduce weight on gantry, and reduce complexity of the machine as much as possible. Any tips for me? I might start my own build thread soon.

By the way, my shop is in Richmond BC, and it would help out a great deal if maybe I could take a look at your machine. If possible.

gfacer2
09-19-2016, 05:38 PM
If you can find my spindle specs you are doing better than I was! I called (or emailed) hsd in Italy and they looked up the serial number to confirm details. I would think steel are not that bad anyhow, it was more a preference.

Come out if you like, my vacuum pump is blown (again... Buying new this time) until maybe Wednesday but otherwise working fine.

I'm at plasticworks dot ca. Look it up for the Abbotsford address and phone.



Yeah linear for those reasons is good. Mine cantilevers out a fair bit more than I love.

PS yes Iso 30/er32

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sidetrack
10-08-2016, 11:01 AM
hi all,
i've just had a 1530 omni atc delivered ( encouraged by various write ups on this forum i went for it :-) ( it arrived a month ago , but it's taken me that long to get an electrician round to connect it up, they kept getting ill !! ).
Now the fun begins ! i've read through this thread to try and glean any info i can as i try and learn how to use it and i'm sure i'll be back to re read it as i start to understand things a bit more, but in the mean time can anyone here point me in the direction of some post processors for vectric v carve pro? it's got a syntec 6MD controller. I'm still at the scratching my head working out how to turn it on safely stage - havent even tried cutting anything yet - certainly not ATC operations so pardon my incompetence and probably stupid question !

gfacer2
10-08-2016, 11:38 AM
hi all,
i've just had a 1530 omni atc delivered ( encouraged by various write ups on this forum i went for it :-) ( it arrived a month ago , but it's taken me that long to get an electrician round to connect it up, they kept getting ill !! ).
Now the fun begins ! i've read through this thread to try and glean any info i can as i try and learn how to use it and i'm sure i'll be back to re read it as i start to understand things a bit more, but in the mean time can anyone here point me in the direction of some post processors for vectric v carve pro? it's got a syntec 6MD controller. I'm still at the scratching my head working out how to turn it on safely stage - havent even tried cutting anything yet - certainly not ATC operations so pardon my incompetence and probably stupid question !
Send me a pm with your email and I can send you the post I use.

Took me 10 min to figure out how to turn it on and another 15 to home it (twist lower Eston and press green button on, then once syntec is finished loading hit home then y, x, z in turn.)

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gfacer2
01-28-2017, 02:00 PM
So quick feedback, everything still going fine (other than human error). I had the other x motor sprocket fail but it was an easy fix as I had 3 machined when I fixed the other side. I've slowed it down a little and reduced the acceleration as the extra weight of the tool changer was cause ripples on small jogs.

Otherwise, very happy with it.

And certainly have cut a lot more in the past year with it than my old 5x4 cnc.

Hoping to get the auto tool height sensor working one day once I stiffen up the bracket and plane it to match the spindle.

That will make it consistent and usable.



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sidetrack
01-29-2017, 09:15 AM
that's interesting i'm having trouble with the auto tool sensor too, it goes out of bounds about 50% of the time. generally it does the first rough height sense but then looks like it pulls the tool up too far ( two distinct steps upward - the second moving furtehr than the first ) so when it goes down again more slowly it never reaches the sensing plate. the only way i can get it to work is try again, turn off machine and hope. quite annoying, the tch guy at omni hsa looked at the file that suposedly controlls it and said its fine so i'm at a bit of a loss and have been ignoring it as i don't need to switch tools much yet but its worrying....

gfacer - how did you slow the machine down and reduce acceleration - just in the tool speed parameters in gcade or somewhere more universal to the machine?




So quick feedback, everything still going fine (other than human error). I had the other x motor sprocket fail but it was an easy fix as I had 3 machined when I fixed the other side. I've slowed it down a little and reduced the acceleration as the extra weight of the tool changer was cause ripples on small jogs.

Otherwise, very happy with it.

And certainly have cut a lot more in the past year with it than my old 5x4 cnc.

Hoping to get the auto tool height sensor working one day once I stiffen up the bracket and plane it to match the spindle.

That will make it consistent and usable.



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Marc L
03-26-2017, 05:32 AM
I had some issues with semi auto tool changing in my small machine....it boiled down to messy macros; it was getting position data from the DRO in mach3....this caused out of position issues when trying to tool set or sometimes after changing tools...often z would not be exactly where it should.
My machine is a basic 1212, the macros in it were modded from the full auto tool changer routines...way too complicated for what I needed. I tried several times to rewrite it...eventually i had the code redone by someone who knows what they are doing and it works a treat for a simple auto tool change routine ;-) Maybe there is an issue in the code somewhere? Just an idea as I know someone else who had exactly the same issue too.

gfacer2
06-26-2017, 06:34 PM
Just a quick update.

Everything still working fine. Did take a day to try and get the auto tool height sensor working but ran out of steam before I got it done. Just need to mill a new platform that is at the same plane as the spindle but did not have the right tooling to do it. Added a coolant mister for trying aluminum (worked ok in prelim test) as they were so cheap, I had to try it out.

Still trying to get rid of my little wavy lines when cutting but this is what I consider a 'non commercial issue" for my work. I see it and it annoys me but no customer comments or issues.
Just bugs me that of all the parameters in the Syntec the only one that seems to help at all is acceleration (and even that is limited). BTW. It seems for at least some of the syntec variables you need to restart to have them implemented. I had some homing errors after changing a bunch and then restarting and needed to restore the back up I did before I started fiddling to correct it. Had another homing error afterwards that might have been related where the offset for the x axis went to 18mm when it should have been 0 but for some reason the allowable work area was only -1mm from that home so I could not cut at x0 with my 6mm bit as it wanted to be x-6. Found a parameter in Syntec and adjusted it lower.

At the same time I took a stab at trying to open the .lad files for the PLC ladder but no luck. Ran out of time as it was more of an exploring mission than any real goal.

Anyhow, mainly just a note to say its steady as she goes.

Ringarn
06-27-2017, 05:52 AM
Just a quick update.


At the same time I took a stab at trying to open the .lad files for the PLC ladder but no luck. Ran out of time as it was more of an exploring mission than any real goal.



I got my 1325LATC about a week ago :-)
As it is for now I am NOT satisfied, but we will see. I am trying to contact Jack thru Skype but he is not so willing to answer :-(
I am still positive and convinced that it will be fine in the end. Hope someone at Omni see this :-D

Anyhow, thanks for the postprocessor. Have been editing and testing, and editing and testing, and so on :-) Now it is close to perfect.

Do you know that you can see the ladder on screen? However, all comments are in chinese and I don´t think it is possible to change anything.
">", "PLC Status" (F1), "PLC Ladder" (F5)

gfacer2
06-28-2017, 12:20 AM
Yes I've seen the ladder at some point. What's the issue with your machine?


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Yurtman
08-02-2018, 06:59 PM
I'm thinking about placing an order with Omni for a 1325 with ATC. You posted that you would order the linear rack rather than carousel. Now you have been running the machine for some time do you still think this is the way to go? Are you happy with machine performance? Anything you would order differently? I'd also be running a regen blower, so I'd go for larger pipework if it's an option. Is the waffle board ok as standard or is it too shallow for decent flow rates? Thanks

gfacer2
08-02-2018, 08:02 PM
I'm thinking about placing an order with Omni for a 1325 with ATC. You posted that you would order the linear rack rather than carousel. Now you have been running the machine for some time do you still think this is the way to go? Are you happy with machine performance? Anything you would order differently? I'd also be running a regen blower, so I'd go for larger pipework if it's an option. Is the waffle board ok as standard or is it too shallow for decent flow rates? ThanksFor atc, either is fine. Liking the carousel but less to go wrong with linear. One nice thing with carousel is I can push big sheet to the back, overhanging, if I have a quick little job at the front.

Machine is still fine, still some minor wavy issues but I've discussed those elsewhere.

Larger plumbing is a must, waffle board is probably deep enough. I might get without holes and do the holes and plumbing on arrival if I did again. I'm considering redoing with air controlled blast gates so my zones work on the panel again. Still don't have auto height working but could if I set my mind to it.

Graham

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dmannock
08-03-2018, 01:24 PM
I'm thinking about placing an order with Omni for a 1325 with ATC. You posted that you would order the linear rack rather than carousel. Now you have been running the machine for some time do you still think this is the way to go? Are you happy with machine performance? Anything you would order differently? I'd also be running a regen blower, so I'd go for larger pipework if it's an option. Is the waffle board ok as standard or is it too shallow for decent flow rates? Thanks

Very, very bad experiences with Omni. Too many con games. Try Max at NewTopCNC on Alibaba. No reply needed.

meniscus
09-04-2018, 04:07 PM
Very, very bad experiences with Omni. Too many con games. Try Max at NewTopCNC on Alibaba. No reply needed.

Do you have experience with New Top CNC? I don't see them discussed in the forums anywhere.

RUSTY2
09-04-2018, 05:12 PM
Dont know anything about New Top CNC ,I have been running my Omni 1530 with the pneumatic tool changer for cutting aluminum for a couple years now , I am very satisfied with the unit and there help .

RafaSP88
11-02-2018, 07:41 PM
wow great thread. I'm in the process of ordering a machine from OMNI, any updates on the machine? @gfacer2

gfacer2
11-02-2018, 07:48 PM
Nothing to report. Planning to do some work on the vacuum platen one day and move the zones back to relay control with some pneumatic blast gates.

Otherwise working well. The only comment that I have been thinking is that I can't believe the syntec panel isn't showing at least a little wear and tear.

Oh and a little paint flaked off on the tool changer arm...

That's it.

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Victorycnc
11-03-2018, 02:48 AM
Just a quick update.

Everything still working fine. Did take a day to try and get the auto tool height sensor working but ran out of steam before I got it done. Just need to mill a new platform that is at the same plane as the spindle but did not have the right tooling to do it. Added a coolant mister for trying aluminum (worked ok in prelim test) as they were so cheap, I had to try it out.

Still trying to get rid of my little wavy lines when cutting but this is what I consider a 'non commercial issue" for my work. I see it and it annoys me but no customer comments or issues.
Just bugs me that of all the parameters in the Syntec the only one that seems to help at all is acceleration (and even that is limited). BTW. It seems for at least some of the syntec variables you need to restart to have them implemented. I had some homing errors after changing a bunch and then restarting and needed to restore the back up I did before I started fiddling to correct it. Had another homing error afterwards that might have been related where the offset for the x axis went to 18mm when it should have been 0 but for some reason the allowable work area was only -1mm from that home so I could not cut at x0 with my 6mm bit as it wanted to be x-6. Found a parameter in Syntec and adjusted it lower.

At the same time I took a stab at trying to open the .lad files for the PLC ladder but no luck. Ran out of time as it was more of an exploring mission than any real goal.

Anyhow, mainly just a note to say its steady as she goes.

Thanks for sharing so detailed experience on China brand CNC. Can you share what kinds of wavies for your cutting? For the turning corner or others? Maybe we can give some helps.

gfacer2
11-03-2018, 11:38 AM
Thanks for sharing so detailed experience on China brand CNC. Can you share what kinds of wavies for your cutting? For the turning corner or others? Maybe we can give some helps.It's more like oscillation. It's not really noticeable an corners, just flat materials. Really the only time it comes up as a practical issue is when I'm then polishing to a high gloss. Even then, the customer might not care but I'm being picky.

Its maybe a flaw in a component like the helical rack and pinion. To minor an issue for a major change.

Graham

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Yurtman
02-14-2019, 02:27 PM
I've just started to setup my Omni 1325, it has a ES951 spindle with labels indicating max 7 bar of pressure, but no air consumption number. What CFM is your compressor supplying?

allencncrouter
02-15-2019, 04:30 AM
ES951 9kw spindle more details have been send to your email, hope it help you.