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ccsparky
11-18-2006, 01:09 PM
Well how do I begin...

I want to give credit were credit is due by starting out with a big thank you to Joe. His efforts are extremely appreciated and only equaled by his craftsmanship!

I ordered Joe's kit and as promised it was delivered in a timely fashion. The box arrived with everything well packed and in excellent condition.

I do have to point out that Joe has an evil side as when I unpacked the box I was immediately attacked by Joe's ninja packing peanuts. I wish I had gotten a picture, I had peanuts all over my hands, arms, and face. :)
I was afraid to touch my camera as I feared all the static might cause it to explode!:D

Here is a shot of the box... and so it begins.

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/505/medium/DCP_0280.JPG

ccsparky
11-18-2006, 01:16 PM
I have all of the parts on hand to build the kit. I plan on taking my time and start with primer and painting.

Here is a shot of all the parts that come with the kit.

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/505/medium/Joe_s_Kit.JPG

I have not started on the HobbyCNC assembly or the power supply yet and plan do do that in the evening leaving as much weeked time for the rest of the assembly as possible.

All of the parts were pretty much right from Joe's list with the exception of the misc nuts, bolts and other minor hardware I had on hand.

More pictures to come once I get underway, will see how the holiday schedule works out.

ccsparky
11-18-2006, 01:18 PM
Inserted this post for future pictures of the remainder of the hardware with purchase information.

bp092
11-18-2006, 01:47 PM
Looks awesome! When did you order it? Have fun building, just remember not to prime any areas you plan to glue, the glue won't bond.. :)

ccsparky
11-18-2006, 02:03 PM
Looks awesome! When did you order it? Have fun building, just remember not to prime any areas you plan to glue, the glue won't bond.. :)

bp092,

September 19th. Given the amount of time Joe's spends helping others on the forum and the number of orders he must have I was real impressed with how soon the kit arrived. Well worth the wait!

Thanks for the tip!!!
After further review I will probably assemble most of the kit and paint the assembled sections as this appears to be the best way to go.

Again, thanks for the tip, any and all suggestions are always welcome!!!:)

Can't wait to see your progress when your kit arrives!

bp092
11-18-2006, 02:28 PM
:) np, I plan to assemble it glue it, watever, and then spray it with my hvlp.. just be generous with the glue for MDF, mdf sucks up glue 2 times as much as plywood or solid.. got my nuts and bolts from boltdepot.com like others, awesome company, getting a xylotex 3 axis ready kit and building a pc from newegg.com parts.. got everything else ready though.. did you make the aluminum bearing slides yet?

ccsparky
11-18-2006, 03:01 PM
:) np, I plan to assemble it glue it, watever, and then spray it with my hvlp.. just be generous with the glue for MDF, mdf sucks up glue 2 times as much as plywood or solid.. got my nuts and bolts from boltdepot.com like others, awesome company, getting a xylotex 3 axis ready kit and building a pc from newegg.com parts.. got everything else ready though.. did you make the aluminum bearing slides yet?

Sounds good!
Not much experience with MDF so I appreciate the tip on the glue!
Any suggestions on glue types and paint that work well with MDF?

I have the HobbyCNC 3 axis kit (not assembled yet) and have been looking at the Xylotex 3 Axis Ready kit also. Can't wait to see how it works with your kit.

No I've not done the aluminum bearing slides yet. Will be off for 6 days starting next Wednesday so hope to get at least a couple of days put into the project!!! Of course that all depends on the To-Do list that always seems to appear when I take time off. :rolleyes:

David Da Costa
11-18-2006, 03:07 PM
Ok so consider me teased ;) Nice to see the kit and keep updating your plog.

Look forward to seeing more.

David

bp092
11-18-2006, 04:26 PM
Sounds good!
Not much experience with MDF so I appreciate the tip on the glue!
Any suggestions on glue types and paint that work well with MDF?

I have the HobbyCNC 3 axis kit (not assembled yet) and have been looking at the Xylotex 3 Axis Ready kit also. Can't wait to see how it works with your kit.

No I've not done the aluminum bearing slides yet. Will be off for 6 days starting next Wednesday so hope to get at least a couple of days put into the project!!! Of course that all depends on the To-Do list that always seems to appear when I take time off. :rolleyes:

See David's thread, he is already working on his electronics now and put everything together in one pc tower, he has some really clear pics of what he is doing. I plan to follow in his footsteps with a different case and some other minor mods but pretty much in the same way. As far as glue, I swear by titebond, and mdf paints very well if you prime it first. Any wood primer/paint will be fine, after all it is wood, it's just compressed with a bunch of other fun chemicals

David Da Costa
11-18-2006, 04:30 PM
bp092, make sure you post some pics of your build including the PC mods.

bp092
11-18-2006, 04:56 PM
will do, taking pics now :)

ccsparky
11-18-2006, 11:33 PM
See David's thread, he is already working on his electronics now and put everything together in one pc tower, he has some really clear pics of what he is doing. I plan to follow in his footsteps with a different case and some other minor mods but pretty much in the same way. As far as glue, I swear by titebond, and mdf paints very well if you prime it first. Any wood primer/paint will be fine, after all it is wood, it's just compressed with a bunch of other fun chemicals

I've been following David's site closely, very impressed with his ideas and work! It will be fun to watch both you and David's build progress!

Thanks for the info!

ccsparky
11-24-2006, 07:27 PM
Got some time to work on the kit. Started by fitting all of the pieces together mostly to get a clear picture in my mind prior to glueing.

Z access carriage layed out
http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DCP_0294s.JPG

Z access carriage glued - 1/4 - 20 rod installed
http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DCP_0295s.JPG

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DCP_0298s.JPG


Fitted the bottom torsion box together
http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DCP_0299s.JPG


Gantry top and bottom torsions boxes glued - 1 inch brads
http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DCP_0302s.JPG

Will work on the bottom torsion box this weekend and try to get all the mdf pieces assembled and ready for paint.

David Da Costa
11-24-2006, 07:36 PM
Great to see the pictures! Can't wait to start on the kit myself.

David

ccsparky
11-24-2006, 07:39 PM
Some added thoughts as I go,

I was going to lay out all the pieces and show a step by step assembly, however Joe has done a very good job with the information he provides and the design of the kit that it almost puts it's self together, well almost ;)
It's also hard to put the parts down and pick up the camera to snap off a few shots.:D

By reading the instructions and viewing the many pictures provided it is very easy to assemble. For me it is very helpful to do a pre glue assembly of each section. It allowed me to verify each part location, and get comfortable with the final assembly.

:cheers:

David Da Costa
11-24-2006, 07:43 PM
I think that is a very good suggestion and I shall do the same.

ccsparky
11-24-2006, 07:48 PM
Great to see the pictures! Can't wait to start on the kit myself.

David

Thanks!

I'll bet, I almost feel bad for posting don't want to get you to excited...
note I said "almost".

Keep up the good work, you have so much done and ready for the kit that you'll be up and running before all of us!

David Da Costa
11-24-2006, 07:50 PM
Well that will depend on our friend Joe :)

bp092
11-24-2006, 08:07 PM
Looks great man, howd the pieces fit together with the dados? Tight fits? Have to use any pipe/bar clamps? Keep up the good work :)

ccsparky
11-24-2006, 08:10 PM
Well that will depend on our friend Joe :)

Just around the corner...

After reading about the Shuttle in you log I went over to the ArtSoft (Mach 3) forums and noticed you spent some time over there.
I purchased the Shuttle Pro v2 off of ebay the other day, got to the shop today and it had already arrived. It will be a nice addition to the Mach 3 software.

Thanks for the tip! :cheers:

bp092
11-24-2006, 08:18 PM
sparky, btw what's that green machine next to your bench? and what kind of table saw do you have?

ccsparky
11-24-2006, 08:24 PM
Looks great man, howd the pieces fit together with the dados? Tight fits? Have to use any pipe/bar clamps? Keep up the good work :)

Thanks!

Everything fit well. Snug would be the word to use not to tight and not to loose! Went together real well. No clamps, glued all the ribs, glued on the 1/4" mdf and then nailed it all together.

Was a little nervous about squaring everything up but once the 1/4" mdf was secured in place everything lined up very nicely!

I have black gas pipe for the rails, however in the picture below you can see that I am using a piece of 3/4" galvanized to check how it all fit together. It laid in place very well and lines up with the gantry side pieces perfectly. :)

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DCP_0301s.JPG

ccsparky
11-24-2006, 09:04 PM
sparky, btw what's that green machine next to your bench? and what kind of table saw do you have?

Ok let me see if I got all this correct:

The table saw is the G1023SLX 10" Table Saw 3 HP Single-Phase 220V Left-Tilt w/ 7' Rails
http://www.grizzly.com/products/G1023SLX

If you are refering to the equipment in the back corner next to the gas bottle and under the cabinets, its a 4' foot sheer but I can't remember the manufacturer.

The machine in the lower left corner in the picture showing the torsion box is a G5769 48" Pan & Box Brake - 16 Gauge
http://www.grizzly.com/products/G5769

None of the equipment is mine, I'm fortunite to have this shop available to me so I take advantage of it. Let's just say sometimes it's good to be the King ;)

joecnc2006
11-24-2006, 09:21 PM
Looks very good so far, I always get excited to see someone building the machine. Have you picked out a color scheme?

joe

ccsparky
11-24-2006, 09:29 PM
Looks very good so far, I always get excited to see someone building the machine. Have you picked out a color scheme?

joe

Hey Joe,

Thanks!

I was really giving the John Deere look some heavy thought but the white is really nice looking also.
Maybe... no, you'll just have to wait for the pictures. :)

bp092
11-25-2006, 09:01 AM
heh looks nice, I've actually never worked with grizzly tools although I've heard nothing but good things about them.. I've been all delta/portercable/powermatic for as long as I've been in woodworking. Although I do have some other brand tools :). CCsparky, go with the John Deere! I'm thinking of going with the hammered steel paint that I used awhile back, that stuff looks neat when it sets.

Robert M
12-17-2006, 09:12 AM
I purchased the Shuttle Pro v2 off of ebay the other day
Hey sparky !

I’m a newbie to all this CNC world and after reading your post, I’m trying to understand what good the Shuttle Pro V2 can do and/or help with the Mach 3 ??
Went at the mach 3 forum, but can’t really pin any simple reasons, worst yet if I go the Google route, it appears it’s good for the audio/video world ??!!
Could you explain more in dept for me what good can it do for Cnc-ing ?!
Appreciate your time.
Robert M

ger21
12-17-2006, 09:22 AM
Hey sparky !

I’m a newbie to all this CNC world and after reading your post, I’m trying to understand what good the Shuttle Pro V2 can do and/or help with the Mach 3 ??


You can use it to remotely control your machine. You can jog the axis using the dials, and program the buttons to start, stop and pause the machine. I just took a quick look and see that each button can be configured for one of about 40-50 functions in Mach3. If you haven't already, download mach3 and install it, and install the shuttle plugin, go to Config Plugins and you'll see what it can be set up to do.

ccsparky
12-17-2006, 10:25 AM
Hey sparky !

I’m a newbie to all this CNC world and after reading your post, I’m trying to understand what good the Shuttle Pro V2 can do and/or help with the Mach 3 ??


Hello Robert M

I have not done anything with my kit for a while and have not yet used the Shuttle Pro V2 however ger21 explains it well.
David Da Costa also uses the device. He has an excellent plog going. Give him a yell. :)

ccsparky
12-17-2006, 10:42 AM
Have been spending a lot of family time with our daughter. She is married to a fine young man that is in the Army. He is stationed overseas and she will be leaving tomorrow to be with her husband for two years. Hopefully he will then be stationed closer to home!
You raise them and look forward to the days when they stand on their own.
Damn, I miss her already!!! Oh, and I just found out I'm going to be a grandpa. I'm getting old, better get out of this rocking chair, find my cane and get back to the kit while I still have the stamina to get around... ;)

Ok, no old guy jokes, I'll be 50 next year.

Should be back to working on the kit soon!

Happy Holidays everyone!!!

David Da Costa
12-17-2006, 11:23 AM
Congratulations ccsparky!

Robert M
12-17-2006, 11:49 AM
Hello Robert M

I have not done anything with my kit for a while and have not yet used the Shuttle Pro V2 however ger21 explains it well.
David Da Costa also uses the device. He has an excellent plog going. Give him a yell. :)

To David Da Costa...

May I ask to tell me more about this device ??
Thanks
Robert M

David Da Costa
12-17-2006, 12:09 PM
I have the shuttle express and it enables you to select the axis you want to jog and then using the two wheels jog to axis to the position you want.

The larger Shuttle Pro is the same but has more buttons that you can assign to perform various functions in Mach 3.

Hope that helps

David

Robert M
12-17-2006, 12:44 PM
Thanks for the reply !

But have to admit, since I’m a newbie to this CNC world… I’m don’t fully understand what it can potentially do !
Do you mean by
enables you to select the axis you want to jog and then using the two wheels jog to axis to the position you want.
that with the Shuttle you could manually position and control the router position ( all axis ) any where you want ??
Sorry for being so “green”, but heck at 42 I have to get up to speed if I want to make my version of Joe’s CNC soon!!

Thanks
Robert

ccsparky
12-17-2006, 12:49 PM
Congratulations ccsparky!

Thanks David!

Robert M,

Wish I could offer more help, you did say you were at the Mach support forum so you probably have already done this...

I did a search for "shuttle" and came up with several posts, some don't have anything to do with the shuttle but several do and there is some pretty good conversation going on in them that gives a lot of ideas I believe on how folks intend on or are using them.

http://machsupport.com/forum/index.php
search shuttle

Best I can do at this time. :)

ccsparky
12-17-2006, 12:52 PM
Thanks for the reply !

But have to admit, since I’m a newbie to this CNC world… I’m don’t fully understand what it can potentially do !
Do you mean by that with the Shuttle you could manually position and control the router position ( all axis ) any where you want ??
Sorry for being so “green”, but heck at 42 I have to get up to speed if I want to make my version of Joe’s CNC soon!!

Thanks
Robert

Well listen up youngster... :)

Yes that's what he means,
You can program a button for X one for Y and another for Z, by selecting say the "z" button you can raise and lower the router with the wheel.

ccsparky
12-17-2006, 01:10 PM
Also if I remember correctly, you can setup each of the two jog wheels for different movement speeds. I believe one will be set up to move in steps and the other for rapid movement. Again David ger21 and others have hands on experience so they will be the ones who will provide much more info than I.

Robert M
12-17-2006, 02:40 PM
Thanks To David & Sparky…

David… Thanks for the tip… I have to admit I neglect to look at the data base by searching “Shuttle”. I’ll try that !!

Sparky…. Thanks for your response to… that summers it up and guide me as fare as the basic idea for it’s use. Nevertheless, I’ll still have a peek at the MACH forum to read more on this.

On another note, I have what is called a “Space mouse” made by LOGITECH. I use it for my 3D cad drawing. ( Have a look at this link for more detail on it http://www.vrlogic.com/html/3dconnexion/space_mouse.html ). I just wounder if my “Space Mouse”
can also do this jog thing or having both, Space Mouse and the Shuttle can be a good thing or just to much ??

I’ll investigate and get back to you guys !

Thanks again <:0)
Robert

David Da Costa
12-17-2006, 04:50 PM
Hi Robert, yes you could probably use the space mouse in some way, but my tip for now would be to not worry about it and concentrate on the basics. You can use the arrow keys on the keyboard to jog the axis around, the shuttle is just easier and a bit more accurate but no means a pre-requisite to getting the router up and running.

Build the router and your controller / pc load Mach 3 if that is what you are going to use and then you can build from there.

Good luck

David

Robert M
12-17-2006, 05:13 PM
Thanks David !

Word of wisdom…I like those & I to believe one thing at the time !
It’s just when I saw this Shuttle thing, I had to find out the relation between CNC and a video tool !!??
Thanks to you, I now know what to look later on once I’m more into this CNC thing.
BTW, yes I intend to use Mach 3 with Joe’s design, with a tweak of my own !!??

Later.
Robert

David Da Costa
12-17-2006, 05:42 PM
I look forward to seeing your tweeks.

ccsparky
12-30-2006, 08:03 PM
Got to work on my kit today so here are some more pictures, assemble the bottom torsion box and started painting.

First I flipped the the box so that it was supported by the short ribs, squared everything up and glued and nailed the 1/4" MDF. I only applied glue to the long ribs. Flipped the box back over, removed each short rib, applied glue and re-inserted. Glue and nailed the other 1/4" MDF. All is square.
Prior to gluing and nailing I squared the box up and tacked short pieces or 1x2 to the table around the box to keep every thing square. Didn't start taking pictures until after I removed the blocks and flipped the box over.

First 1/4 MDF glued and nailed. Removing each short rib glueing and re-inserting.
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28283

Second sheet of 1/4" MDF glued and nailing. Use of a straight edge as a guide for nailing the inner ribs.
28284

Taped pipe slots, putty and sanded all nail holes.
28285

Parts painted with primer
28286

28287

Primer and one coat of satin white enamal
28288

28289

28290

Applied tape.
28291

Well that's it for today. The painting is a pain in the rear!!! :tired:

Should finish all painting tomorrow and maybe some assembly.

bp092
12-30-2006, 08:45 PM
I see you primed the skin for one side before hand (or so it appears), howd you glue it on, as in how did the glue adhere? Nice work though, and it looks like you have a nice open place for the build. Me, no room right now, lol.

David Da Costa
12-30-2006, 08:47 PM
Looks great and so familiar ;)

ccsparky
12-30-2006, 08:59 PM
I see you primed the skin for one side before hand (or so it appears), howd you glue it on, as in how did the glue adhere? Nice work though, and it looks like you have a nice open place for the build. Me, no room right now, lol.

Thanks,

I had two left over pieces of 1/4 MDF from another project, the one I used for the bottom has a white finish. I sanded it down prior to using. It appears that the glue has adhered very well as I was unable to get it off when I tried to see how it was holding up.

The shop is a good size with an area for welding and one for carpentry work.

How's your kit coming along?

bp092
12-30-2006, 09:03 PM
Yeah if you scuff it up it should adhere, but it looked well painted so I wondered. I'm not totally worried about the insides of the ribs being fully primed, mdf is a stable product as it is, paint isn't going to do a whole lot more except give the looks and the extra guarantee. I'm more worried about protecting the areas open to the elements like water, oil, grease etc. Kit is coming along, sadly kind of slow but never the less it's getting there. Just paying close attention to your build and others so I know which way things are usually being done with this kit. The manual is good, but pictures of your guy's builds are worth a million words.

ccsparky
12-30-2006, 09:04 PM
Looks great and so familiar ;)

Thanks David

It does look kind of familiar doesn't it...

I must say thought that your build is the one to beat and I don't think I'll be the one to do it. You've done and excellent job!

Just to make it look even more familiar, I think I am going to go with the cable set up you have used. It really makes the build that much nicer looking!

bp092, David

I got the PC 3 pieces kit that I told you about. Has the stapler, and two nail guns with the 150 PSI compressor. Very nice hardware! Thank both of you for the heads up on this!!

bp092
12-30-2006, 09:08 PM
NP, PC makes great products, some of the best, keep them oiled and they will probably never fail you under normal use.

ccsparky
12-30-2006, 09:09 PM
Yeah if you scuff it up it should adhere, but it looked well painted so I wondered. I'm not totally worried about the insides of the ribs being fully primed, mdf is a stable product as it is, paint isn't going to do a whole lot more except give the looks and the extra guarantee. I'm more worried about protecting the areas open to the elements like water, oil, grease etc. Kit is coming along, sadly kind of slow but never the less it's getting there. Just paying close attention to your build and others so I know which way things are usually being done with this kit. The manual is good, but pictures of your guy's builds are worth a million words.


I was going to paint the inside but man am I sick of painting. I've been using cans also but may, get the spray gun out with an extension and shoot the inside, that's a big "MAY".

My daughter left about two weeks ago and today is the first real day I've had to make any real progress.
Back at it tomorrow.

David Da Costa
12-30-2006, 09:22 PM
Moving forward steadily -put up some new photo's tonight.

ccsparky
12-30-2006, 09:27 PM
This is a busy place tonight! Joe's really got something going here!

Been trying to catch up on all the builds, feel like a pinball bouncing around.
It's great seeing all the people building these kits.

David, I'll be watching for the pics!

DougO
12-30-2006, 10:52 PM
Your build is looking good. Looks like we are about the same spot. I'm like you, the painting is not fun. I'm ready to see some pictures/videos of the other builds at work. Maybe we won't be to far behind.

ccsparky
12-31-2006, 09:14 AM
Your build is looking good. Looks like we are about the same spot. I'm like you, the painting is not fun. I'm ready to see some pictures/videos of the other builds at work. Maybe we won't be to far behind.

Thanks Doug,

Your's as well!! I know what you mean, as soon as I get update emails I rush to the forum to see what's going on...

ccsparky
12-31-2006, 06:13 PM
Painted today until I ran out of paint. MDF really soaks it up!
Will finish painting tomorrow.

28306 28307 28308

28309 28310 28311

Also pressed the ACME nuts and bearings in place.

joecnc2006
12-31-2006, 06:27 PM
Painted today until I ran out of paint. MDF really soaks it up!
Will finish painting tomorrow.

28306 28307 28308

28309 28310 28311

Also pressed the ACME nuts and bearings in place.

I see on the gantry sides you tapes off where the torsion boxes meet, if you did that to be able to adhear glue to it i would not glue them, because if you would like to replace the pipes later down the road then you will need to cut a new gantry. And the .15 stepdown for the bearing slider box can be painted as well.

just paint the whole thing is what i did.

Joe

ccsparky
12-31-2006, 06:52 PM
I see on the gantry sides you tapes off where the torsion boxes meet, if you did that to be able to adhear glue to it i would not glue them, because if you would like to replace the pipes later down the road then you will need to cut a new gantry. And the .15 stepdown for the bearing slider box can be painted as well.

just paint the whole thing is what i did.

Joe

Thanks Joe,

I hadn't intended to glue it, was trying to leave all the parts that joint together unpainted, why :confused: , I don't know, but I'll take your suggestion and paint it all tomorrow! :)

bp092
12-31-2006, 07:04 PM
Sparks, Joe is right, don't worry about it a whole lot. The thing that really stops glue from penetrating is a gloss finish. Scuff it up and it will adhere fairly well. Don't waste time masking off! Just go easy on areas that are going to be glued. Lookin' good though Sparky, I'm about as you are right now, about to prime the last torsion box.

ccsparky
12-31-2006, 07:11 PM
Sparks, Joe is right, don't worry about it a whole lot. The thing that really stops glue from penetrating is a gloss finish. Scuff it up and it will adhere fairly well. Don't waste time masking off! Just go easy on areas that are going to be glued. Lookin' good though Sparky, I'm about as you are right now, about to prime the last torsion box.

bp092, thanks!
I was just checking your progress, your build is coming along really great!

I noticed how you painted everything and will do the same tomorrow. It was a pain masking off and I wish I had asked before I did so. Oh well nothing but wasted time!

David Da Costa
12-31-2006, 07:38 PM
Looks good. I masked off the joint areas too, but as Joe said I only bolted everything together and did not use glue on any parts that may need to be disassembled for maintenance at some point.

ccsparky
01-01-2007, 09:19 AM
Looks good. I masked off the joint areas too, but as Joe said I only bolted everything together and did not use glue on any parts that may need to be disassembled for maintenance at some point.

Thanks David,

I was not going to glue, only bolt as well. I'm not sure why I did it other than to have as smooth of mating surface as possible.



Happy New Year everyone!!!

ccsparky
01-01-2007, 03:57 PM
Finished painting, except for some up once it's all together.

I did the last coat after I put everything together. Just used some bolts to temporarily hold everything together and finished up.

283492835028351

2835228353

David Da Costa
01-01-2007, 04:37 PM
Looks real good ccsparky. Now the fun bit of assembling everything.

I am waiting for my molex plugs and power cable extention to arrive from Mouser, so today and tomorrow I am going to work on dialing in the z axis and attaching limit/ home switches to the z along with attaching the sacrificial board.

I ordered two 4' t-tracks from Rockler who had them at 50% off so will need to get some 3/4 x 24 x 60 MDF.

Were do people that don't have a vehicle big enough to transport their own wood/mdf order it from (I am in LA)?

crocky
01-01-2007, 04:38 PM
Hi ccsparky,

Been watching this one with some interest and it is good to see the detailed photographs on the construction and lots of them. I had not made my mind up yet but I think this one has me sold on a Joes design now. I have got a new variable speed router and a xylotec 3 axis complete kit all fired up for 220 volts and I am waiting on a price for freight from the USA for a kit now.

Keep up the good work :)

Regards,
Bob

bp092
01-01-2007, 05:02 PM
Looks real good ccsparky. Now the fun bit of assembling everything.

I am waiting for my molex plugs and power cable extention to arrive from Mouser, so today and tomorrow I am going to work on dialing in the z axis and attaching limit/ home switches to the z along with attaching the sacrificial board.

I ordered two 4' t-tracks from Rockler who had them at 50% off so will need to get some 3/4 x 24 x 60 MDF.

Were do people that don't have a vehicle big enough to transport their own wood/mdf order it from (I am in LA)?


I get it delivered, my supplier is cool, make it worth their while and throw them $10 and they will deliver the same time I order it and follow me home sometimes.. if you want to go the HD route, just have them cut it into managable pieces.. I have a honda civic, so I know what it is like.. also try yahoo local, look around on the web or in the yellow pages.. btw those t tracks are good, I just got a drill press setup (table and fence system) for christmas with their t-tracks and some of their toggle hold downs.. some stuff came damaged, they appologized and sent brand new stuff instantly without asking for the other stuff back..

ccsparky
01-01-2007, 06:15 PM
Looks real good ccsparky. Now the fun bit of assembling everything.

I am waiting for my molex plugs and power cable extention to arrive from Mouser, so today and tomorrow I am going to work on dialing in the z axis and attaching limit/ home switches to the z along with attaching the sacrificial board.

I ordered two 4' t-tracks from Rockler who had them at 50% off so will need to get some 3/4 x 24 x 60 MDF.

Were do people that don't have a vehicle big enough to transport their own wood/mdf order it from (I am in LA)?

Thanks!
It has been a lot of fun so far and I'm really looking forward to being able to do the assembly. I've had the parts laid out in my office and get all kinds of questions about what I'm up to. After trying to explain it to them I always end up showing them a picture from Joe's manual so they get an idea.

That's where I got my T-track from. I purchased an assortment of clamps and knobs. Even thought I could have made the blocks they sell I went ahead and purchased some of them also. Rockler is a nice company to do business with!

Rockler has the table kit I am going to order next week. You can order the hardware in a few different lengths and also the casters. I think I'll go with the 36" by 48" and use 1 1/4" sub floor material for the top long enough to support my router.

bp092 suggested HD and I know Lowes will cut your material too. Like bp092 suggested get it cut in manageable pieces and do the final cut yourself. Sometimes if you ask them to cut it exact, it won't be.

We use a local supplier that delivers to the door, however they are only local. You might also try a cabinet shop that has delivery service.

I'm watching your log with great anticipation on what you'll be doing next, keep up the excellent work! :cheers:

ccsparky
01-01-2007, 06:39 PM
Hi ccsparky,

Been watching this one with some interest and it is good to see the detailed photographs on the construction and lots of them. I had not made my mind up yet but I think this one has me sold on a Joes design now. I have got a new variable speed router and a xylotec 3 axis complete kit all fired up for 220 volts and I am waiting on a price for freight from the USA for a kit now.

Keep up the good work :)

Regards,
Bob

Thanks Bob!

It makes it all worth while when something we do helps someone else! Sounds like you've got the parts going for a Joe's build already :)
Joe will do you right on the shipping and you will not be disappointed in his kit. It is a fantastic piece of craftsmanship. The other thing that Joe has going for him is the amount of assistance he provides, you can tell he is passionate about his work and helping others.

And if mine hasn't yet put you over the top, go see David Da Costa, bp092, DougO, JLT or one of the other fine builds going on right now. These guys are all very creative and eager to help!

Looking forward to seeing your log once you get going! :D

bp092
01-01-2007, 08:13 PM
Right on sparky, wonder if joe has kept count of how many kits have been cut/successfully built? I know it's more than that are logged at the zone..

ccsparky
01-01-2007, 09:04 PM
Right on sparky, wonder if joe has kept count of how many kits have been cut/successfully built? I know it's more than that are logged at the zone..

That would be interesting to know, Joe any idea on how many?

Also it's amazing how many different types of builds are going on. Their are a lot of talented people working on many different types of routers, fun to watch!

I've been keeping my eyes on JLT's ATC. That is a really cool setup!

joecnc2006
01-01-2007, 09:51 PM
Right on sparky, wonder if joe has kept count of how many kits have been cut/successfully built? I know it's more than that are logged at the zone..

11 that i know of so far, and a few of them have not posted they were so busy with the build to take pictures. :).

ccsparky
01-04-2007, 09:41 PM
Haven't done much except work on the HDPE parts.

Z- Axis Assembly - Gantry Bearing Slide Box w/ X-Axis Bearing Block - Router Mount
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Z - Axis Assembly
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Router Mount
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Question: If I place the X-Axis Bearing Block into the Bearing Slide Box and lay the assembly on the floor then lift up on the box, should the block slide out freely and remain on the floor? Once mine is fit into place, holding it in both hands I can force it to move with my thumbs but it does not move freely.

I am not sure how others are doing this but here's what I did to mark my parts for drilling. I fitted the parts together and used clamps when ever possible. With a 1/4" drill bit fit into a tap handle I slide the bit into each of the 1/4" holes, applied a little pressure on the tap handle to force the drill against the HDPE. Made 1 to 2 turns and remove the bit. This made a nice small circular cut in the plastic and was very easy to see to drill in the drill press. By doing it this way everyone of my holes was perfectly lined up.

Hopefully I'll get to work on bearing brackets tomorrow and start assembly over the weekend.

joecnc2006
01-04-2007, 09:53 PM
Question: If I place the X-Axis Bearing Block into the Bearing Slide Box and lay the assembly on the floor then lift up on the box, should the block slide out freely and remain on the floor? Once mine is fit into place, holding it in both hands I can force it to move with my thumbs but it does not move freely.

No does not moove freely usually it is a snug fit, have it into place when bolting the box onto the gantry side.

looks like you are doing everything correctly, good tip on marking the holes, i have a marker that fits snug to mark the holes.

joe

ccsparky
01-04-2007, 10:07 PM
No does not moove freely usually it is a snug fit, have it into place when bolting the box onto the gantry side.

looks like you are doing everything correctly, good tip on marking the holes, i have a marker that fits snug to mark the holes.

joe

Thanks Joe!

I looked in every drawer I could find to come up with something to mark with, it was either to big or to small. What type marker do you use?

For the two holes on each of the router mount side plates that need to be drilled all the way through I did the following to mark the HDPE:

Bolted the entire HDPE assemble to the router mounting rear plate. I then used my 1/4-20 tape and threaded it into the threaded holes on the rear plate. Turned it all the way in until it hit the HDPE. Turned it in and out a few times holding the side plate firmly against the rear plate. It made nice marks in the plastic that line up perfectly as well.

The marker would be a lot faster!! :rolleyes:

gtschance
01-04-2007, 10:19 PM
I used clamps to carefully align and then used transfer punches for marking the HDPE. Worked extremely well. Only a very light tap on the punch was required. The dimple left was generally much more defined than what I normally see in metal. Drilling was then a breeze.

George

David Da Costa
01-04-2007, 11:12 PM
Nice work ccsparky!

DougO
01-04-2007, 11:45 PM
Nice job, looking good. Doesn't look like it will be very long before you will be cutting.

ccsparky
01-05-2007, 12:24 AM
DougO, Thanks. It will be a little while yet, still have the bearing assemblies to do, the power supply, and then some, but oh what fun it will be.

Dave, Thanks and nice job on the limit switches!

George, Thanks for the tip on the transfer punches, doesn't it always seem like there's just one more tool you can add to your collection :D

ccsparky
01-05-2007, 10:33 PM
Hello All,

I was going to work on the bearing assemblies today but found I did not have the proper drawings with me. I got home and started to review them for tomorrow and found I had questions regarding the assemblies.

What is the proper assembly procedure for securing the bearings to the aluminum angle? I have reviewed several pictures and have seen a few different things. In some of the pictures it looks like the bolt is feed through the aluminum and then the following is added to the bold:
nut - lock washer - bearing - lock washer - lock nut
In another picture it looks like this:
bolt - lock washer - bearing - lock washer - nut - aluminum - lock nut
In another it appears the same as the first one above minus the lock washer.

I do not understand what I'm seeing. Is it just a preference or is there actually a set distance the bearing should be from the aluminum?

Thanks for any and all assistance!!! :)

William

joecnc2006
01-05-2007, 11:49 PM
Hello All,

I was going to work on the bearing assemblies today but found I did not have the proper drawings with me. I got home and started to review them for tomorrow and found I had questions regarding the assemblies.

What is the proper assembly procedure for securing the bearings to the aluminum angle? I have reviewed several pictures and have seen a few different things. In some of the pictures it looks like the bolt is feed through the aluminum and then the following is added to the bold:
nut - lock washer - bearing - lock washer - lock nut
In another picture it looks like this:
bolt - lock washer - bearing - lock washer - nut - aluminum - lock nut
In another it appears the same as the first one above minus the lock washer.

I do not understand what I'm seeing. Is it just a preference or is there actually a set distance the bearing should be from the aluminum?

Thanks for any and all assistance!!! :)

William

Look at page 6 in the assembly manual, it tells the washers and nuts, if you need pictures let me know.

Joe

ccsparky
01-06-2007, 12:40 AM
Look at page 6 in the assembly manual, it tells the washers and nuts, if you need pictures let me know.

Joe

:o Whoops, sorry about that, each time I opened the manual today I zoomed right on by that page without viewing the bottom. I'll be fine now!

Thanks!

ccsparky
01-10-2007, 11:28 PM
Today I finally got to put enough time into the bearing assemblies so I was able to finish them.

Ran into a problem of my own making. :eek: I installed the top set of bearings in the z-axis and inserted the adjusting bolts. All was fine until the last one.
The bolt threaded in fine until the last couple of threads. It hung up and using the mindless gorilla approach I kept turning, yep out came the nut.

Had to drive the assembly back out. I was lucky not to damage the socket that nut rests in. I replaced the nut and then sanded around each one. Applied Tight Bond around each nut taking extra pains not to get glue on the threads. I am hoping this will add a little extra insurance in keeping me from doing something to knock one out again! :rolleyes:

Installed the bearing assemblies into the gantry as well with hopes of putting the bulk of the machine together this coming weekend.

Forgot my camera at the shop so I'll post the pictures tomorrow.

ccsparky
01-11-2007, 11:10 PM
Got all of the bearing assemblies done and mounted.

Finished the Z-Axis Carriage. The glue I applied around the nuts pressed into the top of the Z-Axis seems to have worked fine.

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When I attempted to bolt the router mount assembly to the z-axis slide I could not get the 1/4" nut into the aluminum angle as the nut and bolt holding the bearing would not allow enough clearance. I must have done something incorrectly, however the slide is snug and travels very well on the drill rod. I ended up boring out the 1/4" holes on the router mount to 5/16" and then taped the holes in the slide to accept a 5/16" bolt. Used an 1 1/2" 5/16" bolt with washer on all for holes. Hopefully this will hold up for the long hall! It is very secure and only time will tell.

David Da Costa
01-11-2007, 11:31 PM
Looking good!

ccsparky
01-12-2007, 12:19 AM
Thanks David!

I've been meaning to ask, in your plog on the first page, what are the hold downs you're using with the aluminum channel? Did you make them or purchase them?

Thanks

DougO
01-12-2007, 06:52 AM
Looks like we are about at the same spot with our builds. Your's is looking good.

I did the same thing with the 1/4" holes. I didn't see anything about adding nuts and the 1/4" bolts definitely wasn't going to screw in 1/4" holes. I threaded the 1/4" holes and added 5/16" bolts. I don't think you messed up.

I did notice by your pictures I forgot to add the top backlash nut to the z-axis slide. Hopefully it won't be hard to add it now. Will probably have to do a little disassembly. Thanks for the pictures. I don't know how far I would had gone before I found out my error (if I found it at all).

ccsparky
01-12-2007, 07:24 AM
Looks like we are about at the same spot with our builds. Your's is looking good.

I did the same thing with the 1/4" holes. I didn't see anything about adding nuts and the 1/4" bolts definitely wasn't going to screw in 1/4" holes. I threaded the 1/4" holes and added 5/16" bolts. I don't think you messed up.

I did notice by your pictures I forgot to add the top backlash nut to the z-axis slide. Hopefully it won't be hard to add it now. Will probably have to do a little disassembly. Thanks for the pictures. I don't know how far I would had gone before I found out my error (if I found it at all).

Thanks DougO!

I'm glad to hear that about the 1/4" holes, I was really racking my brain trying to figure out where I went wrong.
I now know! After seeing your reply I re-read page 15 and you're correct no mention of the 1/4" nut... :confused:

Just think of the experience we get when we get to assemble and disassemble something to redo it!

It's great that there are so many of Joe's builds available to follow! It has helped me a great deal!

Keep up the good work yourself!

ccsparky
01-13-2007, 08:56 PM
Made good head way today. I am really jazzed as it's finally starting to look like something!! :)

Purchased a work stand from Rockler and that was the first thing I put together today. It is rated for 400 lbs and can be purchased in several different sizes. I went with the 36" by 48" and purchase the taller legs.
I was going to use 1 1/8" flooring however I've decided to go with 2 sheets of 3/4" particle board and use formica to finish it off. Haven't purchased it yet.

The set came with the adjustable feet but I purchase the casters so that I can move it around if needed. The casters have locks and they work real well.
The casters add about 3.5" to the height so one I put my router on it the deck is at 46".
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ccsparky
01-13-2007, 09:01 PM
Spent a few hours at the lathe cleaning up the gas pipe. I purchase the black pipe and wanted it to have a nice shine to it. Used the green scotch pads and then finished up with emery cloth.

In stalled all of the pipe and put everything together.

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DougO
01-13-2007, 09:07 PM
I click on your attachments and get message "invalid attachment". Don't know if it's my end or yours.

ccsparky
01-13-2007, 09:07 PM
Finally it looks like a Joe's machine :)

Here it is up on the stand. I'm using some boards as a temporary top and had to clamp them down to move the router over to it. The brakes on the stand held real well and did not move when I slide the router on it.

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Everything went together real well. Hat's off to you Joe! Excellent job!

ccsparky
01-13-2007, 09:10 PM
I click on your attachments and get message "invalid attachment". Don't know if it's my end or yours.

Thanks!

Not sure what's going on. I see the first 4 thumb nails but everything else just shows the text saying Attachment with the pic number. When I click on the text I get the picture. Will have to do some checking. :confused:

David Da Costa
01-13-2007, 09:10 PM
ccsparky, your attachments are'nt working.

ccsparky
01-13-2007, 09:22 PM
How about now guys? Should be a total of 3 posts with pictures.

A total of 15 pictures.

Not sure what I did the first time but I'm seeing the pictures now :rolleyes:

DougO
01-13-2007, 09:26 PM
Everything looks ok now. Looks like somebody has been busy. Very nice job.. You should be up and running in a day or so. What size motors are you going to be using? I see David is still having problems with his.

David Da Costa
01-13-2007, 09:30 PM
Man those gas pipes are shiny - very nice job!

joecnc2006
01-13-2007, 09:32 PM
Looks very nice. I always like seeing a machine come together.

Don't forget to leave a space on the bottom for the length of the machine to alow for maint. and greasing of the leadscrew.

Joe

ccsparky
01-13-2007, 09:41 PM
Everything looks ok now. Looks like somebody has been busy. Very nice job.. You should be up and running in a day or so. What size motors are you going to be using? I see David is still having problems with his.

Thanks! It was a long day, but man was it fun!

I have both the HobbyCNC kit with the 200oz steppers and I believe the same Xylotex kit that David has with the 269oz steppers. I'm not at the point of messing with the the motors and power supply yet so hopefully David will be able to work out the problem and then I'll make a choice... go David, go David!! :D

ccsparky
01-13-2007, 09:43 PM
Man those gas pipes are shiny - very nice job!

:cool: Ya they are! They aren't perfect and I could have spent more time on them but I was getting tired as it took a few hours to do them all.

Thanks David!

ccsparky
01-13-2007, 09:47 PM
Looks very nice. I always like seeing a machine come together.

Don't forget to leave a space on the bottom for the length of the machine to alow for maint. and greasing of the leadscrew.

Joe

Thanks, it's a lot of fun and thanks for the tip, I'll do that!

ccsparky
01-13-2007, 09:51 PM
If anyone is interested in the stand here's the link:
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=10276

I was thinking of doing the drawers and cabinet section as shown in this picture, however if I have an opening in the top for servicing the underside of the router then the drawers may get in the way. Will have to see how it works out.

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David Da Costa
01-13-2007, 10:06 PM
come on ccsparky get those motors hooked up so I can see if you have similar issues (which I doubt) ;)

joecnc2006
01-13-2007, 10:15 PM
Thanks, it's a lot of fun and thanks for the tip, I'll do that!

It was Jay's idea which is an excelent one.

you may end up having to add some cross bracing to the table to keep it from rocking when the machine is running, a real stable table does wonders in your cuts also.

Key factors are well lub leadscrews, stout bracing and as "Jay" mentioned maybe fasten the machine to the table.

ccsparky
01-13-2007, 11:17 PM
come on ccsparky get those motors hooked up so I can see if you have similar issues (which I doubt) ;)

I'll see what I can do! Will be spending the day watching some football tomorrow, but Mondays a holiday so I'll be back at it.

ccsparky
01-13-2007, 11:23 PM
It was Jay's idea which is an excelent one.

you may end up having to add some cross bracing to the table to keep it from rocking when the machine is running, a real stable table does wonders in your cuts also.

Key factors are well lub leadscrews, stout bracing and as "Jay" mentioned maybe fasten the machine to the table.

Well then thanks to both of you! :)

I'll keep the bracing in mind. I'm hoping that by cutting and adding side and back panels it will make it much more stable. It is pretty darn stable right now, but then again, I have no idea what the machine is like when it's cutting.

bp092
01-13-2007, 11:27 PM
I thought of doing a movable table like sparky but decided on building a poplar framed bench like I make other work benches. Sturdy as hell and solid. After hearing from joe on the last post I agree stability will be key and plan to add angle brackets, two at each end to keep that router in place. Joe, what do you reccomend for lubrication? Brand names? How often do you do it?

joecnc2006
01-13-2007, 11:37 PM
I lub mine min. of once a week, with white litium grease i get from lowes. but like to try the spray Jay mentioned in his video. Need to find out where to get it.

bp092
01-13-2007, 11:49 PM
video? what did I miss :D ?

joecnc2006
01-14-2007, 12:01 AM
video? what did I miss :D ?

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22192

Post #54

jllewel812
01-14-2007, 09:48 AM
Joe, I found that spray at Ace hardware. It is called Liquid Wrench dry-lube with PTFE.

bp092
01-14-2007, 01:07 PM
Thanks joe, awesome video. He did a good job, like his sense of humor.

ccsparky
01-14-2007, 09:23 PM
Completed the installation of the acme rod, bearings, backlash nuts and the motors today. All that remains is the threaded rod, electronics and the tweaking!

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ccsparky
01-14-2007, 09:29 PM
Close up views of the stepper motors

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ccsparky
01-14-2007, 09:32 PM
Couple of pics of the router installed and a picture of the Xylotex.

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I brought the Xylotex kit home tonight to play with.

joecnc2006
01-14-2007, 09:46 PM
you guys are making the machine look very nice, great job on them.

bp092
01-14-2007, 09:57 PM
Looks good, did you buy the ready kit or the regular kit?

ccsparky
01-14-2007, 10:11 PM
Thanks Joe and bp092!

I was checking your site bp092 and it's looking good!!!

I'm not sure of the difference. I purchased the kit as shown in the picture. The board is assembled but I do have to come up with an enclosure or build one. I do have the HobbyCNC kit also. I purchased it when I ordered Joe's kit. The HobbyCNC kit requires soldering the parts onto the board and comes with the 200oz stepper motors.

One thing I found odd on the Xylotec stepper motors was that I had to drill out all of the mounting holes on two of the motors. I mounted the first one fine but could not get the screws through the holes on the other two. I figure I must have grabbed the wrong size and double checked. No big deal I just drilled them out but it was kind of strange. :confused:

Thanks again guys!!!

ccsparky
01-14-2007, 10:29 PM
Here's a picture of the sign I put up in the shop today.

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See the nut on the table in this picture, it's proof you shouldn't get old!
I was trying to thread this on for what seemed like a few minutes to me, and I was getting frustrated. I was threading it onto the end that I cut on the cutoff saw and figured I didn't clean up the threads good enough. Took the rod completely out, ground down the end and re-installed... you guessed it, still no luck. Laid the nut down and that's when I noticed it had no threads!

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Some days are like that! :o

bp092
01-14-2007, 10:43 PM
lol it's okay, we all have those days :D

ccsparky
01-14-2007, 10:51 PM
Sometime it's seems like I have too many of those kinda days! :rolleyes:

Well I'm out of here for the next two hours. I don't watch much tv but I'm a big "24" junkie, so gotta run!

David Da Costa
01-14-2007, 11:04 PM
ccsparky, I had to drill out my 269 motor mounts two.

bp092
01-14-2007, 11:35 PM
I never really watch 24 and I got sucked in tonight after 60 minutes, freakin' shows like that slow down the build :( suck you in and then it's 11:00pm and you've gotta go to sleep for work.

ccsparky
01-15-2007, 05:44 PM
Almost done with the basic structure, still have to do the electronics, the t-track and top and I'm sure adjustments when I get the motors running.

I happened across an interesting keyboard stand and thought I would clamp it down to see how it worked out. I'm planning on using a laptop (if it works out) so the keyboard stand might do the trick.

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It raises up and down and has a nice swivel feature.


Also I took a second look at my z-axis bearings and found that the binding was indeed caused by adjustment of the bearings. After re-adjusting all is very smooth and can easily be turned with my fingers. Thanks for the help!

bp092
01-15-2007, 08:07 PM
Sparky, nice setup. Is that a t43? If so I have the same, it is an awesome laptop. Nice keyboard pull out, I forgot about the mouse until I saw yours, going to look for one that accomodates that as well.

ccsparky
01-15-2007, 08:37 PM
Sparky, nice setup. Is that a t43? If so I have the same, it is an awesome laptop. Nice keyboard pull out, I forgot about the mouse until I saw yours, going to look for one that accomodates that as well.

Thanks!

I believe so, I'd have to look at it again. It's the laptop I use at work. I'll be using a Dell laptop once I'm up and running. Have Mach3 loaded on the Dell right now and trying to get as much setup at home as I can.

The keyboard tray had the following on it: HON Samba
It came off of a piece of office furniture and I grabbed it before it went to the dump. :)

After I saw David's Shuttle I got one off of eBay so it will be parked on the mouse tray.

joecnc2006
01-15-2007, 09:41 PM
Just make sure the laptop puts out enough volts on the printer port to send a good signal the the step/dir for the router, even tho you use a seperate BOB board.

My Toshiba worked with the Hobby CNC board but for other drivers it does not work.

ccsparky
01-15-2007, 09:54 PM
Just make sure the laptop puts out enough volts on the printer port to send a good signal the the step/dir for the router, even tho you use a seperate BOB board.

My Toshiba worked with the Hobby CNC board but for other drivers it does not work.

Will do, thanks!
If it does not work out I'll assemble the HobbyCNC board that I orginally purchased for this build and give it a try with that. Thought I'd give the Xyoltec a try first. It's been very interesting following David's progress and I'm certainly glad he was able to get it resolved! If all else fails I'll stick a PC in the cabinet.

DougO
01-16-2007, 03:00 PM
Nice looking job, ccsparky. I've been out of pocket over the holiday weekend and have gotten behind. Your job is looking terrific. Anxious to see some pictures cutting.

Doug

ccsparky
01-20-2007, 11:27 PM
Thanks DougO and thanks for the tip Joe!

Have been working on the electronics. Tried two laptops with Mach3 with no success, a Dell Latitude and a Alienware with P4 3.06 processor. Both could not perform well during the driver test and the Alien would not even show the driver test and locked up no matter which driver I used or which software and or process I shut down.

Loaded Mach3 on a pc I put together about a year ago that I only used for AutoCAD drawings and some gaming. It has never been hooked to the internet and does not have Antivirus, Firewall or any other security software running. The machine has a P4 3.20ghz Intel precessor, 1g of ram, 120gb harddrive, Radion 7800 pro vid card, creative sound card, a dvd burner.
It performed very well, here's a snap shot of the driver test screen,

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I got Mach3, the Xylotex kit, and a stepper hooked up and running. I only brought one motor home so I had to change it between all three axis. Granted it's not under a load but on all three axis it ran very smooth.

Will be taking the set up into the shop tomorrow to get it hooked up to the machine. Hopefully all will go well and I won't have the kind of trouble David's having. Man that stinks!

ccsparky
01-21-2007, 05:53 PM
Got a few things done today, starting to feel like I'm getting close :)


Used a 3/4" sheet of particle board to make the top deck and sacrificial deck.
Inspired by Jay's T-track layout I decided to go this route as it appeared to be a good overall layout for reaching any part of the table with a clamp or block.

The top deck is 24" x 58 3/8". Here I put the t-track in place so that I would know where to mark my lines for drilling. I put two rows of 1/4" holes x 4 in each row then counter sunk the holes to get the 1 1/4" bolt heads and washers flush with the surface. The bolts will be directly under the sacrificial boards and not interfere.
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ccsparky
01-21-2007, 06:02 PM
In these two shots you can see the t-track and sacrificial boards in place.
Each board is 58 3/8" long and 5 1/16" wide. 4 boards and 5 t-tracks = 24" and is a great fit. As you can see my t-track is not the right length. I had ordered 1 - 48" piece and 4 - 36" pieces with the intent of a different layout.
Just ordered 4 more 48" t-tracks and will secure them once they arrive. The sacrificial pieces will be sandwiched in pretty good and should not move around. If they do will add some type of trim on the ends to hold them in place.
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bp092
01-21-2007, 06:11 PM
Sparky I'm impressed you've done a fine job. I've got pics coming within the next 15 mins, about to go snap them. I might reformat my pc even though it's brand new and just install barebone stuff on it and software like Mach3 and autocad if I see any problems with running the motors (hopefully by tomorrow if I get the stuff.) T tracks look good, I will likely go that route when I purchase the router itself. I figure that I will be air testing my machine at least for a week configging it between work and classes so I'm not going to order it just yet.

ccsparky
01-21-2007, 06:13 PM
Got all the electronics hooked up.

Just have the wires hanging out, nothing fancy likes David's... yet :D
Also haven't decided on an enclosure for the power supply and controller yet.

I have Mach3 up and running and seems to be doing good. Move all of my axis around. X was really smooth, y was smooth up until I got to one end. Had to make adjustments to keep it from binding. Z - was smooth however I had to make speed adjustments to get it fairly ok. I'm still learning all of this so my adjustments are a hit and a miss.

30070 30071

I've made a couple of videos with sound and as soon as I figure out where or how to post them I will.

ccsparky
01-21-2007, 06:17 PM
Sparky I'm impressed you've done a fine job. I've got pics coming within the next 15 mins, about to go snap them. I might reformat my pc even though it's brand new and just install barebone stuff on it and software like Mach3 and autocad if I see any problems with running the motors (hopefully by tomorrow if I get the stuff.) T tracks look good, I will likely go that route when I purchase the router itself. I figure that I will be air testing my machine at least for a week configging it between work and classes so I'm not going to order it just yet.

Thanks! Can't wait to see your pics!! I am going to either put together another pc or buy one depending on how your's and David's work out I may go with the same! :)

I've got a couple of videos doing some air cutting using the Cross g-code that came with Mach3. Did ok but have a few moments that will jar your teeth! :eek: I've got a lot of studing to do so that I feel comfortable with Mach3. I have read alot but when it comes to tweaking I'm uncertain if I'm doing good or bad... will get there and learn from you guys!!!

David Da Costa
01-21-2007, 06:18 PM
Looks real good ccsparky. I have the t-tracks too and 3/4 mdf all ready to make once I get going.

ccsparky
01-21-2007, 06:24 PM
Looks real good ccsparky. I have the t-tracks too and 3/4 mdf all ready to make once I get going.

Thanks David, can't wait to see it. Are you getting any closer with your motors?

I had ordered a sheet of 3/4" mdf but it didn't get delivered last Friday, so being impatient on went the particle board... I can always change at the next replacement. Will see how this stuff does when cutting.

ccsparky
01-21-2007, 06:26 PM
Can anyone provide suggestions about getting video posted?
I have a yahoo account and will root around there to see what's available.


Thanks!

David Da Costa
01-21-2007, 06:29 PM
Thanks David, can't wait to see it. Are you getting any closer with your motors?

I had ordered a sheet of 3/4" mdf but it didn't get delivered last Friday, so being impatient on went the particle board... I can always change at the next replacement. Will see how this stuff does when cutting.


Kind of but not satisfactory - see my post on my PLOG

joecnc2006
01-21-2007, 06:41 PM
Can anyone provide suggestions about getting video posted?
I have a yahoo account and will root around there to see what's available.


Thanks!

google video

bp092
01-21-2007, 06:51 PM
youtube, google video, or pm me and ille give you an ftp account to upload to

ccsparky
01-21-2007, 09:35 PM
youtube, google video, or pm me and ille give you an ftp account to upload to

Thanks Joe and bp092.

I set up a google video account. Just uploaded two videos now just waiting for them to go live so I can get the address.

bp092
01-21-2007, 10:18 PM
can't wait to see the videos :)

ccsparky
01-22-2007, 12:48 AM
Finally got the video thing setup. Here's two videos I took today when the machine was first fired up. As you can tell I've got some work to do. :)

Any suggestions about what you are hearing or seeing would be appreciated!

Mach3 Screen at the end of the Cross G-Code
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3386546159064765955&hl=en

It's alive, maybe stumbling and taking small steps but it's still alive!!
Cross G-Code in air
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8935489509637897389&hl=en

David Da Costa
01-22-2007, 01:02 AM
ccsparky, on the first video I heard a motor stall, but apart from that for a first run it does not sound bad.

What settings (velocity/ accel / Vref etc) are you using?

Well done

David

ccsparky
01-22-2007, 01:14 AM
ccsparky, on the first video I heard a motor stall, but apart from that for a first run it does not sound bad.

What settings (velocity/ accel / Vref etc) are you using?

Well done

David

Thanks David!

Yep, it stalled many times when I first was testing. I made several changes and still have several more to make. When I get to the shop tomorrow I'll write the current settings down and post them tomorrow in the PM.
The hard part for me is not really knowing exactly how it is supposed to sound. Every little noise I heard I found myself thinking, is it supposed to sound like that. The learning continues...

bp092
01-22-2007, 08:10 AM
it's chirpin sparky! And it sounds neat. Those steppers sound like wild turkeys, but none the less they will be muffled by the sound of a dust collector and router going ;)

ccsparky
01-22-2007, 08:45 AM
it's chirpin sparky! And it sounds neat. Those steppers sound like wild turkeys, but none the less they will be muffled by the sound of a dust collector and router going ;)

Thanks

It does kinda sound like wild turkeys :)
The hard part for me at least is that I don't know exactly how it should sound, that is I do know when a motor stalls but when it's moving around I hear so many things that I have yet to learn if I'm hearing a good sound or a bad sound.

When I ran each axis by it's self they sound very smooth, when they are under the control of Mach3 with code running, it really gets going and that's when you can really hear the music :D

I'm going to look around for videos that show the machine running code without the router running to get a better feel of what it should sound like.

Any comments are welcome so hit me right between the eyes if you see or hear something that isn't right! :)

joecnc2006
01-22-2007, 09:24 AM
Thanks

It does kinda sound like wild turkeys :)
The hard part for me at least is that I don't know exactly how it should sound, that is I do know when a motor stalls but when it's moving around I hear so many things that I have yet to learn if I'm hearing a good sound or a bad sound.

When I ran each axis by it's self they sound very smooth, when they are under the control of Mach3 with code running, it really gets going and that's when you can really hear the music :D

I'm going to look around for videos that show the machine running code without the router running to get a better feel of what it should sound like.

Any comments are welcome so hit me right between the eyes if you see or hear something that isn't right! :)

If your accel. is set low you will hear the sound of the motors winding up and down, I have my Accel. set at 15 in Mach3.

Joe

joecnc2006
01-22-2007, 09:26 AM
Also another note If you change the Name of the Upload to say CNC MOdel 2006 or something like joes cnc, joes 2006 etc. it would be easier for someone to find all the video's everyone has on the machine, with the search oprion in Google. Because i know if i just want to see jay's i search joe2006. and all his video's come up.

ccsparky
01-22-2007, 09:34 AM
Thanks Joe!

I'll set the accelleration speeds as you have them set, gives me an idea where to start :)

Will do on the videos, good point!

ccsparky
01-23-2007, 08:46 AM
Also another note If you change the Name of the Upload to say CNC MOdel 2006 or something like joes cnc, joes 2006 etc. it would be easier for someone to find all the video's everyone has on the machine, with the search oprion in Google. Because i know if i just want to see jay's i search joe2006. and all his video's come up.

Done,

I've named them both Joe's CNC 2006.

Thanks again Joe

ccsparky
01-23-2007, 09:10 AM
ccsparky, on the first video I heard a motor stall, but apart from that for a first run it does not sound bad.

What settings (velocity/ accel / Vref etc) are you using?

Well done

David

Ok, no matter how embarrassing :o this is I'm going to post the settings of the machine at the time the videos were shot.

X:
Steps = 2000
Vel = 459.72
Acc = 108
Step Pulse = 0
Dir Pulse = 0

Y:
Steps = 2000
Vel = 409.5
Acc = 65.25
Step Pulse = 0
Dir Pulse = 0

Z:
Steps = 2000
Vel = 264.72
Acc = 39.9375
Step Pulse = 0
Dir Pulse = 0

I watched the Mach3 videos and just started tuning until I thought they sounded good. Keep in mind I couldn't tune a guitar to save my life. :)

Hopefully these settings have not damaged anything! After reviewing many posts again last night and taking Joe's posted acceleration setting of 15, I'll make the adjustments tonight with the acc at 15 and the velocity around 20 and work from there. Will get videos and post if they indicate success or problems.

Ok, so let me have it, this may have been a bone head move but I'll mark it up as a learning experience! Any setting suggestions will be gratefully accepted and tried. :D

Thanks!

David Da Costa
01-23-2007, 09:50 AM
ccsparky have you got your drivers set to 1/4 stepping? The steps you have set are for that. If you are using the 1/8 stepping (no jumpers on MS1 or 2) then the steps for each axis should be 16000 not 2000.

Also change Step pulse to 1.

joecnc2006
01-23-2007, 11:16 AM
You steps are not correct unless you are using full stepping (which i would not use). use 1/4 if possible.

If you use acme 1/2-10 then that is 10TPI (turns per inch), meaning it will take the stepper motor to turn 10 times to move the machine one inch. Now each turn/revolution of the stepper motor consist of 200 steps. now you introduce the micro stepping, if you use 1/2 micro that is 400 steps, 1/4 micro is 800 steps, etc.

so the formula is:

10TPI x 200 steps x 1/2 micro = 4,000 steps to move the machine one inch
10TPI x 200 steps x 1/4 micro = 8,000 steps
10TPI x 200 steps x 1/8 micro = 16,000 steps
10TPI x 200 steps x 1/16 micro = 32,000 steps

Hope that helps.

dighsx
01-23-2007, 11:48 AM
Hey Sparky machines looking good. One thing I'd change if I was you is to clamp your router so it's up higher. You'll get more Z height that way. I had mine down like that for a while and then it dawned on me that if I moved it up so the bottom of the router was at the bottom of the lowest clamp I'd gain over an inch of Z.

Nice work!

David Da Costa
01-23-2007, 11:49 AM
You steps are not correct unless you are using full stepping (which i would not use). use 1/4 if possible.

If you use acme 1/2-10 then that is 10TPI (turns per inch), meaning it will take the stepper motor to turn 10 times to move the machine one inch. Now each turn/revolution of the stepper motor consist of 200 steps. now you introduce the micro stepping, if you use 1/2 micro that is 400 steps, 1/4 micro is 800 steps, etc.

so the formula is:

10TPI x 200 steps x 1/2 micro = 4,000 steps to move the machine one inch
10TPI x 200 steps x 1/4 micro = 8,000 steps
10TPI x 200 steps x 1/8 micro = 16,000 steps
10TPI x 200 steps x 1/16 micro = 32,000 steps

Hope that helps.

Wops! Thanks for correcting me on that Joe.

David Da Costa
01-23-2007, 01:50 PM
Deleted

ccsparky
01-23-2007, 10:36 PM
Thanks guys!

Much appreciated! Didn't get to do anything after work, meetings seem to get long winded and make for a long day! :(

Can't wait to get back to the machine, your information has helped a great deal and I'm back to reading so that I understand more about what I'm doing.

Good tip with the router position, will put it to good use!

David, congratulations on your success!

:)

DougO
01-23-2007, 10:49 PM
Congratulations CCSparky. Looks like you did a terrific job and you are close to having a good working machine.

ccsparky
01-24-2007, 10:38 PM
First let me start by saying if you make a change, double check it and make sure you save the settings. Here's what I did today.

Set everything to the following:

Vref = Xylotex default setting
Step = 8000
Vol = 60
Acc = 15
Step Pulse = 1
Dir Pulse = 0
Jumper on M1

Each drive running on it's own when testing sounds fantastic!
Ran some of the sample code with the following results
X - axis ran very smooth
Y & Z axis not so good and at times making a weird weiring sound

I had late meetings and a dinner to get to so my head was not in the game and I was in a hurry. Don't do this!!!!!!

Packed up my PC and went to dinner, when I got home I double checked my settings and found the following:

X had the settings as indicated above however Y & Z still had the step still set at 2000 but all other settings were as above.

So I am going to assume that the problem with Y & Z was the step set to 2000.

I would bet good money that I had them set all the same, but as you can see I had either not saved the settings or over looked them.
Double check, double check :)

Will try again tomorrow. :)

ccsparky
01-24-2007, 10:40 PM
Congratulations CCSparky. Looks like you did a terrific job and you are close to having a good working machine.

Thanks DougO!

ccsparky
01-26-2007, 12:40 AM
The following videos show each axis running separately with the following settings:
Step = 8000
Vel = 60
Acc = 15
Each axis on it's own is starting to sound pretty good and performed pretty smooth.

Z
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-768689652649721524&hl=en

Y
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4675799221878198629&hl=en

X
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5208244924461698610&hl=en

ccsparky
01-26-2007, 12:54 AM
This video is running the Mach3 RoadRunner code with the following settings:

All Axis
Step 8000
Vel 60
Acc 15

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6468585294654653061&hl=en

David Da Costa
01-26-2007, 01:03 AM
They sound great - well done!

ccsparky
01-26-2007, 01:14 AM
They sound great - well done!

Thanks to you and the gang I'm getting somewhere :)

I'm a little suspicious of the Xylotex setup, at times while running all three motors it appears as though it's to much draw on the unit.

Like you I think I am going to get my HobbyCNC kit put together this weekend and give it a try. It will be fun to compare the two!

ccsparky
01-26-2007, 01:23 AM
Question:

How would the system be in a garage that's not insulated? Will temps dipping to the mid teens affect the operation?
My biggest problem is running back and forth to the shop to work on it so at this stage I'm thinking of bringing it home so I can mess with it and have more time to dial in the system.

Hats off to all of you! It is great to see everyone's builds and completed machines. I've picked up an awful lot from visiting each and everyone of your sites!!! :cheers: <- maybe some day we can all get together and I... scratch that, Joe can spring for the first round :D

joecnc2006
01-26-2007, 01:23 AM
Thanks to you and the gang I'm getting somewhere :)

I'm a little suspicious of the Xylotex setup, at times while running all three motors it appears as though it's to much draw on the unit.

Like you I think I am going to get my HobbyCNC kit put together this weekend and give it a try. It will be fun to compare the two!

machine looks great, You Guys have some Very impresive looking CNC Machines. and videos sound good, Now you have something to impress everyone with and you built it :D.

I to will be interested in seeing how the Hobby CNC Board performs and compairs to the Xylotec for you.

Joe

ccsparky
01-26-2007, 01:27 AM
Ok, last one for the day.

All three axis set at:

Step 8000
Vel 40
Acc 7

Running the Mach3 RoadRunner code.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4850264023700523652&hl=en

This sounded better to me.

ccsparky
01-26-2007, 01:41 AM
machine looks great, You Guys have some Very impresive looking CNC Machines. and videos sound good, Now you have something to impress everyone with and you built it :D.

I to will be interested in seeing how the Hobby CNC Board performs and compairs to the Xylotec for you.

Joe

Thanks!

At first when the guys came to my office and saw the parts, they'd ask, "What is it". Now all I hear is "Wow, let's cut something today".
I get excited when someone asks about it, I always end up showing them the site and all of the builds. You'd be surprised how many complements all of you get!

DougO
01-26-2007, 01:42 AM
Sounding good Sparky. Looks like you ended up with a mighty fine machine. I am definitely impressed with your work.

I'm going to be out of town til Sunday night. Maybe you can have a comparison of Xylotex and HobbyCNC by then. I anxious to see if there is a difference. From all I've been reading, you should see a positive difference.

ccsparky
01-26-2007, 01:55 AM
Sounding good Sparky. Looks like you ended up with a mighty fine machine. I am definitely impressed with your work.

I'm going to be out of town til Sunday night. Maybe you can have a comparison of Xylotex and HobbyCNC by then. I anxious to see if there is a difference. From all I've been reading, you should see a positive difference.

Thank you! I'm very happy with Joe's kit!

I'll do my best to get a comparison out. I'm going to do a lot of reading over at David's site tomorrow as everyone has posted a wealth of info over there on the Xyoltex kit. To be fair, my observation is simply my feeling in watching all three motors running at the same time. I don't have enough experience with how these things should run or sound yet to form and opinion. The comparison should help with that! :)

Have a safe trip!

bp092
01-26-2007, 05:48 AM
nice work sparky, your machine looks wonderful and I liked the videos.. I should have all my motors plugged into my controller this weekend with the lead rods on.. do you have a multifunction card? if not do you plan to have limit/estop switches? hows your controller going to look like or what is inside? I bothered david a little but am going to do something much (well almost exactly) like his :).

ccsparky
01-26-2007, 09:25 AM
nice work sparky, your machine looks wonderful and I liked the videos.. I should have all my motors plugged into my controller this weekend with the lead rods on.. do you have a multifunction card? if not do you plan to have limit/estop switches? hows your controller going to look like or what is inside? I bothered david a little but am going to do something much (well almost exactly) like his :).

Thanks! I'll be watching! :) You're doing a great job and your machine is looking great!

I don't have the card yet but will be ordering it soon. I purchased the enclosure recommended when I bought the HobbyCNC kit. It looks just like David's only it's all black. I'll probably set it up first and then go with a DIY enclosure much like Joe or Jay's, they both look pretty nice!
You can't go wrong following David's lead! One can't go wrong following any of you guys leads, you all have so many creative and sound ideas that make the build so much more fun!

I should be getting the longer t-track today so I'll finish up the top tonight, build the controller tomorrow and then start tweaking again. Hopefully I'll be able to come up with a good comparison between the Xylotex and HobbyCNC kits. Joe's had such good success I should have stayed with the HobbyCNC but like a few others I was looking for instant satisfaction and wanted to get it going with out having to build that part. I've done a lot of circuit board work so it shouldn't be a big deal... famous last words! Look towards Nevada that smoke you see may be my board :)

I've also got the threaded acme nuts ordered and will replace the acme rod on the z-axis carriage so that I can move the bearings to the outside and have easier access to the threaded nuts (clamps, what ever).
Once I get it dialed in I'll install some of the cable track (again what ever it's called) that David used. Makes for a nice looking build!

Oh and I've still got to finish my stand. Put on a back, sides, and cabinet doors. Will look into maybe a couple of drawers if they don't limit my access to the slot in the top for servicing the x-axis rod and anti-backlash nuts.

Keep up the good work everyone and thanks! It's a lot of fun to follow and learn from you all!

David Da Costa
01-26-2007, 09:37 AM
Every time I see your machine ccsparky, I admire your polished gas pipes.

ccsparky
01-26-2007, 09:56 AM
Every time I see your machine ccsparky, I admire your polished gas pipes.

Thanks David, I find I wear sunglasses around the machine now :)
Had a couple of salesmen in the shop Wednesday and they were drawn to the machine when they saw it. First thing they asked about was the pipe, wanted to know what it was. Suprised them when I told them it was gas pipe.

I was just over at DayneInfo's log and he's planning on using drill rod. Hope it works out, while adding extra weight it will really look nice and give an instant smoother bearing surface! Will be keeping an eye on his progress.

ccsparky
01-26-2007, 10:01 AM
Favor to ask...

To all you folks that have your machine up and running or will have soon, if you are using Mach3 with Joe's machine could you post a video with the machine running the RoadRunner code without the router running, along with your settings? Or if you already have a video point me in the right direction. It would sure help me to see and hear how it should function :)

Oh and it would be much appreciated!!!

David Da Costa
01-26-2007, 10:26 AM
I will do as soon as I have built the new controller box and added new cable.

I will post a video today of the y axis in motion but that will be with the HCNC card.

Yours sounds about right and like mine. I think with the HCNC card you should get better performance more like my 90/15. What power supply are you going to use with the HCNC?

David

ccsparky
01-26-2007, 10:34 AM
I will do as soon as I have built the new controller box and added new cable.

I will post a video today of the y axis in motion but that will be with the HCNC card.

Yours sounds about right and like mine. I think with the HCNC card you should get better performance more like my 90/15. What power supply are you going to use with the HCNC?

David

Thanks! Look forward to seeing it!

I am going to use the one suggested by HobbyCNC, can't remember the spec's, I think I posted it on your site at one time or at least a link to the info, can't remember... getting old. I'm planning on going through your log again today. I believe you are using an upgrade PSU with your HobbyCNC? Correct? I'll see when I review your log.
Ya, 90/15, that will be a treat! :)

David Da Costa
01-26-2007, 10:40 AM
No, I just used the PC PSU for testing, now I have a 28v 16amp power supply I originally ordered for the Xylotex, but I have on order the same stuff or similar to you and will be building a power supply, just waiting for the transformer, cap etc to arrive and that will give me about 35v 10a

DAvid

bp092
01-28-2007, 10:01 PM
Sparky, running my xylotex fine. Like you I'm unsure of sounds from the motors. It sounds different when I jog it than when I run programs, still learning a lot. Maybe we can compare videos, I will have one made early this week. If you order the multifunction card from cnc4pc just remember to order the external power supply. It comes with a usb power supply but you need more I guess to power the other side of the board. I forgot so I lost a few days in the wait. Also their estop looks nice, hopefully going to put it on my controller case (black the one david ordered). I plan to put another one on my machine as well, maybe one on each side in the future. Your road runner vid sounds like mine except for that clicking noise or it sounds like the nuts are loose. Finally got mine to stay tight on. Did you have any problems with the acme rod not lining up perfectly? Does your x axis rod chatter or move at all (wobble)?

ccsparky
01-29-2007, 08:56 AM
Sparky, running my xylotex fine. Like you I'm unsure of sounds from the motors. It sounds different when I jog it than when I run programs, still learning a lot. Maybe we can compare videos, I will have one made early this week. If you order the multifunction card from cnc4pc just remember to order the external power supply. It comes with a usb power supply but you need more I guess to power the other side of the board. I forgot so I lost a few days in the wait. Also their estop looks nice, hopefully going to put it on my controller case (black the one david ordered). I plan to put another one on my machine as well, maybe one on each side in the future. Your road runner vid sounds like mine except for that clicking noise or it sounds like the nuts are loose. Finally got mine to stay tight on. Did you have any problems with the acme rod not lining up perfectly? Does your x axis rod chatter or move at all (wobble)?

Thanks for the tip on the power supply! David posted a video doing the roadrunner code with out the router running. Looks and sounds a lot like mine with a few differences, but gave me a good feel that I'm headed in the right direction, that and the comments made by everyone have helped a lot!

I was in the shop and put the HobbyCNC controller together, got about half way done with the power supply before we decided to take the rest of the weekend off for some r & r. :) So I'll probably finish the controller this week and get some videos out to compare.

Funny you should bring up the ACME nuts, while I was at the shop Saturday morning I bumped the rod on the x-axis and noticed they are a little loose now. I've got to go around and make adjustments and double check everything now that the machine has been running a moving around.

The X-axis rod went in just fine. lined up fine.

Look forward to seeing your videos! Keep up the great work! :)

joecnc2006
01-29-2007, 09:15 AM
Try drill and tap the Acme nuts, you can get away with just using one on eaxh end of axis's, i would use two taps per acme nut, i think i have a picture on my section.

Joe

ccsparky
02-03-2007, 08:57 PM
Well I didn't get done as much as I had hoped to but it was a good day all in all. Removed all of the ACME nuts and installed the threaded clamps purchased from DumpsterCNC. Very nice pieces and easy to work with.
Since I had orginally installed the bearings with the ACME nuts on the inside of the Z-Axis carriage I had to rotate the bearing block so I could have the threaded clamps on the outside for easy access.

30917 30899 30900

30901 30902 30904

HobbyCNC 200oz steppers installed
30904

ccsparky
02-03-2007, 09:00 PM
Here are a couple of shots of the finished cutting deck with five rows of t-track.

30907 30908

ccsparky
02-03-2007, 09:04 PM
Got most of the stand done. Still have to trim the edges, cut and install a couple of sliding doors.

30909 30910 30911

joecnc2006
02-03-2007, 09:12 PM
looks very good.

I removed the dumpster clamps from mine, I could not preload the leadscrew like i wanted to with them, but if you have one on the motor side then use an acme nut on the other end, tighten the acme nut then install aother clamp on that end next to the acme nut i think it will work fine.

Joe

ccsparky
02-03-2007, 09:15 PM
Overall I'm very pleased with the stand. I've decided to keep the casters on it. Each one has a wheel lock does a very good job of locking down and not allowing the unit to move. I used all 3/4" material for the bottom, sides, back and two laminated together for the top. Also made two supports on each side to keep the ends from sagging. Once it was all screwed together I was very supprised at how rigid the whole thing is.

Here's some shots of my Joe's machine sitting on it's new home.

30912 30913 30914 30916

I plan on adding a shelf at a later date and then the sliding doors to help keep the dust out.
30915

I did some house keeping on the machine also. Added the last piece of threaded rod to the z-axis carriage, add bolts to both ends of the machine and worked on fine tuning all the adjustments. Will be working on the Z-Axis drive as it is still not as smooth as I think it should be.

Did get the controller / PSU built today also but still need to wire up the steppers and get it dialed in.

ccsparky
02-03-2007, 09:18 PM
looks very good.

I removed the dumpster clamps from mine, I could not preload the leadscrew like i wanted to with them, but if you have one on the motor side then use an acme nut on the other end, tighten the acme nut then install aother clamp on that end next to the acme nut i think it will work fine.

Joe

Thanks Joe, I'll look into that!

bp092
02-03-2007, 10:39 PM
I like your cabinet sparky, your build is looking mighty fine.. I've been messing with my controller today a lot and finally finished.. just picked up some phone connectors at another store like david used so I can quickly disconnect and connect the limits, plan to do the same with the motors but need to find a better connector, the ones I got are way too small for 18 ga to fit in and might not be efficient for signals. I will see how david uses his though, they might work out with some effort. Pics tomorrow when the case is done and hooked up. I plan to cut stuff tomorrow and figure out if the wobbling is affecting the accuracy or efficiency of my router. If you need help later on with the cnc4pc stuff let me know, I kind of held hands with arturo and david via pm lol asking a lot of questions, so I need to pass the info down the chain.

Look forward to seeing your first cut video!

joecnc2006
02-03-2007, 11:16 PM
I like your cabinet sparky, your build is looking mighty fine.. I've been messing with my controller today a lot and finally finished.. just picked up some phone connectors at another store like david used so I can quickly disconnect and connect the limits, plan to do the same with the motors but need to find a better connector, the ones I got are way too small for 18 ga to fit in and might not be efficient for signals. I will see how david uses his though, they might work out with some effort. Pics tomorrow when the case is done and hooked up. I plan to cut stuff tomorrow and figure out if the wobbling is affecting the accuracy or efficiency of my router. If you need help later on with the cnc4pc stuff let me know, I kind of held hands with arturo and david via pm lol asking a lot of questions, so I need to pass the info down the chain.

Look forward to seeing your first cut video!

I will be getting another card from them so i will need a diagram on hookups, maybe someone can make a detailed video?

Joe

bp092
02-03-2007, 11:38 PM
I will be getting another card from them so i will need a diagram on hookups, maybe someone can make a detailed video?

Joe

which card? as soon as I get it working I can make a photo tutorial to help :) maybe david can make a video tutorial, I'm not much of a video guy, nor do I have a digital video camera

David Da Costa
02-04-2007, 12:48 AM
Looks real good ccsparky can't wait to see it cutting.

DougO
02-04-2007, 02:14 AM
Don't know if looks have anything to do with it, but if it does your machine should fly. I'm still anxious for you to get your HobbyCNC setup completed and see how it works. Hopefully you will get all setup and cutting in the next couple of days.

Doug

ccsparky
02-04-2007, 08:42 AM
Thanks guys! The complements are very much appreciated!

bp092, I haven't ordered the cnc4pc card yet, and thanks for the offer!
Like Joe says, diagrams and videos, that's the ticket! :)
I figure once I have the machine running smooth I would then start adding connectors, the cable chain and other things as I go.

DougO, the cutting surface is at about 46", which for me is a very comfortable height, no bending required :) It's high enough it should only need a little shove to achieve flight... Hopefully in should only be a couple more days and I'll get a video of it in action.

David, bp092, DougO, you guys have all got great looking machines and it's very exciting to see them grow! I can't wait to see all of them in action!!! And Joe... Thanks!!!

If you look at the pictures you'll see that I didn't cut my x-axis acme rod and figured I'd do that once I installed it. After I had it installed I decided not to cut it for awhile as I was chucking it up to my 1/2" cordless drill in the beginning and running it back and forth, lot of fun! Was going to hang a cordless drill on each stepper and create a cordless setup, just kidding. Will cut it down soon.

I had originally planned on cutting my table top to the exact length of the machine but then decided since the cart has wheels and could moved around I'd add to the length to help protect the x-axis stepper and it gives me a small area for tools or what ever. With the added lenght of the top if the machine does prove to move the cart while cutting I will mount an L bracket on the wall that extends out to the cart top so I can clamp it down. That'll make it rigid :D

ccsparky
02-04-2007, 09:25 PM
Hey Joe, do you need a marketing agent for your new line of accessories? :D
31000

Didn't have enough cable to finish up the controller today. Kit only comes with 14' and the location I have in mine will require a few more feet than that. Better planning I guess.

31001 31002 31003

A friend of mine makes custom guitars and purchased this dust collector the other day. Add in the trash can chip collector and the plastic bag idea might not be a bad way to go. Any input would be appreciated!

31004

bp092
02-04-2007, 09:43 PM
Lookin good sparky. Mine looks like a hack job. My old soldering iron sucks and isn't working well so I bought one at home depot yesterday called cold heat, the thing is terrible, as are most as seen on tv products. :( so I need to get a new but authentic one otherwise it's going to take me forever to solder in the future. Just be careful with that filter, I like the felt bags myself, but check to see what that catches. Many cheaper DC's do more harm than good, sucking all the heavy stuff and releasing the finest particles right back into the air for your lungs.




Hey Joe, do you need a marketing agent for your new line of accessories? :D
31000

Didn't have enough cable to finish up the controller today. Kit only comes with 14' and the location I have in mine will require a few more feet than that. Better planning I guess.

31001 31002 31003

A friend of mine makes custom guitars and purchased this dust collector the other day. Add in the trash can chip collector and the plastic bag idea might not be a bad way to go. Any input would be appreciated!

31004

HayTay
02-04-2007, 10:22 PM
ccsparky,

I've enjoyed following your Joe Model 2006 R-2 (D-2?) build. You have done a fantastic job of making Joe's design look even better. I've got half the parts cut to build one of my own but seem to have stalled until the weather gets better/warmer.

I was scrutinizing your control box and noticed you don't seem to have a bleeder resistor to drain the big honkin' capacitor when you power off your system. If you don't have one hidden in there you will want to add one before you zap one of your appendages. Some heat shrink tubing, electrical tape or some other electrical insulator should be added to the terminals/connectors on the top of the capacitor for the same reason.

You may remember to never stick your hand in there but there is always a chance that a big insect, mouse or other little critter may crawl through one of your vent holes and zap themselves into oblivion. They do seem to like the heat generated by electronic equipment. It's amazing, the dead things that you find in printers and computers.

You're getting close, I can't wait to see what you cut on your table. Keep up the good work!

ccsparky
02-04-2007, 10:33 PM
Lookin good sparky. Mine looks like a hack job. My old soldering iron sucks and isn't working well so I bought one at home depot yesterday called cold heat, the thing is terrible, as are most as seen on tv products. :( so I need to get a new but authentic one otherwise it's going to take me forever to solder in the future. Just be careful with that filter, I like the felt bags myself, but check to see what that catches. Many cheaper DC's do more harm than good, sucking all the heavy stuff and releasing the finest particles right back into the air for your lungs.

Thanks! I've got a few soldering irons, my favorite is the Weller Model WES51, it has adjustable temp range with digital readout. But I must admit I have a Radio Shack iron that can be set to 15 or 30 watts and I use it a lot.

The dust collector is from Grizzly, it's the model G0583 and cost him $350.
I'll see how it works for him and then go from there. I'll probably end up going in the same direction as all of you since you guys have the experience! :)

ccsparky
02-04-2007, 10:53 PM
ccsparky,

I've enjoyed following your Joe Model 2006 R-2 (D-2?) build. You have done a fantastic job of making Joe's design look even better. I've got half the parts cut to build one of my own but seem to have stalled until the weather gets better/warmer.

I was scrutinizing your control box and noticed you don't seem to have a bleeder resistor to drain the big honkin' capacitor when you power off your system. If you don't have one hidden in there you will want to add one before you zap one of your appendages. Some heat shrink tubing, electrical tape or some other electrical insulator should be added to the terminals/connectors on the top of the capacitor for the same reason.

You may remember to never stick your hand in there but there is always a chance that a big insect, mouse or other little critter may crawl through one of your vent holes and zap themselves into oblivion. They do seem to like the heat generated by electronic equipment. It's amazing, the dead things that you find in printers and computers.

You're getting close, I can't wait to see what you cut on your table. Keep up the good work!

HayTay, Thanks! Sounds like you're well on your way. I have been wanting to bring mine home from the shop but it's been dipping down into the teens and twenties at night and I'm unsure of how the thing will react in that cold of weather. It would have to go in the garage and it's not well insulated. I do have a spare bedroom but that'll never fly! :)

Good catch on the cap eagle eyes! ;) I noticed it still laying in one of my parts bins after I took the pictures. It's in now.

HayTay
02-04-2007, 11:17 PM
... I'm unsure of how the thing will react in that cold of weather. It would have to go in the garage and it's not well insulated. I do have a spare bedroom but that'll never fly! :)

Condensation, from the fluctuation in temperature, and days with high humidity will make those nice, shiny looking pipe rails rust quicker than you can blink.


Good catch on the cap eagle eyes! ;) I noticed it still laying in one of my parts bins after I took the pictures. It's in now.

"Better safe than sorry," my mama always used to say. You didn't need to be scraping your butt off the floor after a jolt from that monster!

David Da Costa
02-04-2007, 11:53 PM
Yes, I put a bleed resistor on mine and with my multimeter attached it interesting to watch the voltage drain down and even with the bleed resistor it takes a few minutes.

Great looking job ccsparky, I am still envious of your shiny gas pipe ;)

David

ccsparky
02-05-2007, 08:40 AM
Condensation, from the fluctuation in temperature, and days with high humidity will make those nice, shiny looking pipe rails rust quicker than you can blink.



"Better safe than sorry," my mama always used to say. You didn't need to be scraping your butt off the floor after a jolt from that monster!

Ya, can't loose the shine on those babies, took some time to get them like that.

Being an electrician by trade I've had few jolts over the years and have seen some pretty nasty stuff! :)

ccsparky
02-05-2007, 08:46 AM
Yes, I put a bleed resistor on mine and with my multimeter attached it interesting to watch the voltage drain down and even with the bleed resistor it takes a few minutes.

Great looking job ccsparky, I am still envious of your shiny gas pipe ;)

David

Thanks David! If there was a profit in it I could go into the shiny pipe business! ;)

DougO
02-09-2007, 01:51 AM
I'm getting ready to see some pictures of you cutting. How much more do you have to do before we start seeing some pictures?

ccsparky
02-09-2007, 09:08 AM
I'm getting ready to see some pictures of you cutting. How much more do you have to do before we start seeing some pictures?

I've got to hook up a couple of motors and tune it in. Will set as close to the Xylotex settings as possible so that I can make a comparison video as promised :) running the roadrunner code. It will not be exactly the same as I went from the double nuts to a single threaded clamp. Have no idea yet how they will perform. If they do not meet expectations I'll go to the single nut with set screw as Joe suggested. I've been spending a lot of time trying to make adjustments to get things as smooth as possible, but that's by hand turning and not with motors so we'll see how I did. :)
Bottom line, I should start cutting this Saturday. I could have done so a couple of weeks ago if I had just left the Xylotex hardware in place as it appeared to me to be fine, but I really wanted to see how it compares to the HobbyCNC kit.

Once I get a few things cut and on video I'll then start spending my time getting the CNC4PC board, the limits and work on some fancy additions, like a new controller box, maybe energy chain, and so on.

bp092
02-10-2007, 07:36 PM
Sparky hows it going? My cnc4pc stuff is collecting dust, if it was me I Would just start cutting and debugging your machine. I realized after I had set up my soft limits and machine coords in mach3 I didn't need all the fancy stuff to get going. Limit switches aren't absolutely neccesary but are nice and an estop should be mandatory for machinery such as this for various reasons but without one it shouldn't stop you. Anyhow, look forward to your progress :)

David Da Costa
02-10-2007, 07:41 PM
I think you will find that the first time an axis tries to go beyond the limits without limit switches to stop them you may change your mind about how necessary they are ;) Remember you have pretty powerful motors on that machine and even more powerful on mine.

bp092
02-10-2007, 07:46 PM
Yeah like I said, they aren't neccesary to start cutting, but it just means you have to be extra careful. I like them because even if you're a human being which I think we all are, we may mess those up from time to time so it's a good safety. I look at the estop not as always that I'm caught up in the machine and can't reach the console, but that it is absolutely faster to hit a button on the machine then it is to click something in mach3.

For example the other night I had the collet come loose while plunge cutting the piece out after carving it for quite a while and by the time I got to stopping mach3 and turning off the router I already lost the edge of the piece. Hitting the stop button would have ensured I wouldn't have had to put my hand any where near the cutting area.

By the way david found a nifty little cheap way to mount an estop on the machine using an exterior rated conduit box and a brushed alum flat cover. Drilled the hole out and mounted the cnc4pc estop in there and it makes the machine look even more industrial :D. Will post pics of that in my update.

But sparky, we do expect some updates, common man!

ccsparky
02-10-2007, 09:10 PM
Yahooooo, I cut the RoadRunner file today :D

I'm in the progress of uploading the video right now, 126mb or 516mb so far. Man does it take a long time to upload, I was actually afraid to post anything for fear I'd have to start the upload all over, but it's still going so I think I'm safe. Once the video is up I'll post the pics I took of the finished deal.

Got the HobbyCNC all set up and realized I needed to make the voltage adjustments prior to hooking up the steppers. Pulled the Simpson meter out of the cabinet... no go, pulled an old Radio Shack meter from the cabinet... no go. Monday is going to be a good day in the shop!!! I hate it when equipment isn't taken care of!!! Didn't feel like driving all the way home to get my meter so, I removed the HobbyCNC steppers, installed the Xylotex steppers and controller because I was going to cut something today or toss the whole works out into the parking lot :)
I brought the HobbyCNC kit home with the motors so I can get it set up here. Will hook it up one of these days and do the comparison.

Had to make a few minor adjustments but over all I'm very pleased so far. All three axis are set at 60ipm for now.

Hang in there video should be uploaded in a few weeks, na just kidding, hopefully soon!

bp092
02-10-2007, 09:16 PM
sounds good sparks, looking forward to it

ccsparky
02-11-2007, 02:13 AM
Here's my first attempt at cutting the RoadRunner. This is using the Xylotex controller and all axis set at 60IPM. I set the bit right at the surface of the material however once it started to cut it seems to deep.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-251431696721100472&hl=en

ccsparky
02-11-2007, 02:15 AM
This picture is the rusult from the video (first attempt)
31404

These two pictures are from the second attempt

31405 31406

The bit used was a 1/2" 90 degree v-bit

DougO
02-11-2007, 03:04 AM
Congratulations! Looks good, sounds good and runs good. Terrific job. Sure makes you feel good, doesn't it. Like Bp092 said, you can cut now and add the extras later. Just be careful.

Are the knobs and blocks on the end your only hold downs or is that a screw in the middle of your workpiece?

Is this with the Xylotex kit?

ccsparky
02-11-2007, 08:19 AM
Congratulations! Looks good, sounds good and runs good. Terrific job. Sure makes you feel good, doesn't it. Like Bp092 said, you can cut now and add the extras later. Just be careful.

Are the knobs and blocks on the end your only hold downs or is that a screw in the middle of your workpiece?

Is this with the Xylotex kit?

Thanks Doug! :D

Sure does! It is the Xylotex kit. I have a selection of knobs, blocks, and a few aluminum clamps. I plan on cutting some different length pieces of mdf so that I can hold the material while keeping the knobs further away. The blocks did hold very well. The hole you see is not a screw. I was fooling around with the router, had it running and manually lowered the z-axis.

I am going to order the CNC4PC board and get the limits and e-stop installed.
I feel that the limits and e-stop are very important. If you don't have them and something goes wrong, you'll wish you did! Cheap Insurance!!! :)

bp092
02-11-2007, 09:39 AM
looks good sparky, your machine sounds a heck of a lot better than mine, trust me.. did you lube up anything, also do you have any photos of your y backlash assembly?

bp092
02-11-2007, 09:41 AM
and sorry you do but I mean closeups of it

David Da Costa
02-11-2007, 10:43 AM
Great job!

ccsparky
02-11-2007, 11:07 AM
looks good sparky, your machine sounds a heck of a lot better than mine, trust me.. did you lube up anything, also do you have any photos of your y backlash assembly?

Thanks!

I have not lubed up anything yet but will do so soon.
These two pictures are the closest I have. I zoomed in on them and while you do lose some details it was still pretty good. I can take closes up shots tomorrow when I get to work.

31437 31438

ccsparky
02-13-2007, 10:06 PM
Well, it appears I've had my first CNC related accident. On Saturday when I cut the road runner pattern the material I used was left over from the cart I put together. It has a formica finish.

I was wearing safety glasses as I always do when working with metal or wood. I remember after cutting the road runner and stopping the machine I took off the glasses and wiped my forehead and eyebrows. I got dust in my left eye and washed it out... so I thought! By Monday evening my eye was swollen shut and I had to go into the eye doctor today. After checking my eye the doctor found what looked like the formica dust still in my eye. It was scratched up pretty good!

The reason I'm telling you this is because I remember reading in other posts about someone not wearing eye protection, WEAR IT and BE CAREFUL. I had it on and still managed to get the dust in my eye. The formica is nasty stuff and can cause some major damage if not careful!

All is ok but the drops and ointment are a pain in the eye :)

Jason Marsha
02-13-2007, 10:38 PM
Its good to hear you are Ok.

Jason

joecnc2006
02-13-2007, 11:18 PM
If you remember when i was building the machine i was cutting off the u-bolts for the Z-Axis and got metal shavings in my eye, two days later i went to the med clinic, and they used a scraper to get the pieces out, and the doctor said the pieces had a rust ring around them, my eyes was sensitive to light for a week, had to wear a patch.

So yes, make sure to wear eye protection all the time.

Joe

Marm
02-13-2007, 11:18 PM
I scratched my eye when I was watching a softball game, I think it was flying sand and stuff, and I had to use drops and ointment and after that I always try and wear eye protection. If you talk to anybody who has damaged their eye it happens so fast you do not have time to react and all it takes is a split second to forever change your life.

ccsparky
02-13-2007, 11:41 PM
Arrr Matey, no patch for me.

All kinding aside and thanks Jason, I'm fine!

Just wanted to bring it up as it is so very important!
I'm embarassed that mine was such a stupid thing after taking the precaution to wear the glasses I still managed to get the crap in my eye.

I remember reading about the metal in your eye Joe, yuke that must have hurt! Glad you recovered and were able to get so many projects going around here!!! :)

DougO
02-13-2007, 11:48 PM
Sorry to hear about the accident. Just when everything was going so good. Take care and hopefully it will be good as new in a couple of days.

Doug

leftout
02-14-2007, 12:16 AM
what size is your kit and what was the cost

ccsparky
02-14-2007, 08:57 AM
Thanks DougO, doing fine!

leftout,

As my machine is set up I can cut about 24" by 43 - 45". If I had extended the top over the end I could have ended up with about 48".

Including the kit, PC, cart (stand), Xylotex ready kit, hardware and other items I've got over a grand into my build easy. Some have more and others have less. Just depends on what you put into it.

For current kit pricing get in touch with Joe (joe2000chevy)

Look forward to seeing you join in on the fun!! :)

ccsparky
02-26-2007, 09:01 AM
In Buzz's log, Joe said:

"you will need to draw in tabs and do a final g-code cut utilizing them, if you do not have software that has a feature to add tabs into the tool paths. Lazycam does not have this feature as far as i know."

Joe,

What software would you suggest? Can this be done in VCarve or do I need another CAM program?

This what I am working on.
32506

joecnc2006
02-26-2007, 09:08 AM
[QUOTE=ccsparky;263753]
Joe,

What software would you suggest? Can this be done in VCarve or do I need another CAM program?

This what I am working on.
QUOTE]

V-Carve has the Tab feature in it, try your file in the demop and you should be able to see the tabs in the preview when you generate them.

Joe

dighsx
02-26-2007, 09:10 AM
You could do that in VCarve. Just use the profile toolpath tool to set the inside and outside cuts. Just make sure you have it cut the inside toolpaths first.

ccsparky
02-26-2007, 09:18 AM
Thanks guys!!!

I'll give it a shot this afternoon in the demo. I've been meaning to purchase the software anyway. Maybe today is the day :)

Jay, your control / power supply cabinet was my inspiration, because I like the way it looks and because I get to cut it myself :D

dighsx
02-26-2007, 09:21 AM
Hey thanks. If you need some more pics or anything just say the word.

And don't forget to make a front panel with some crazy warning on it. I think that adds a nice touch.. hehe

ccsparky
02-28-2007, 08:56 AM
Joe, Jay,

Got the full package (VCarvePro, PhotoVCarve & Cut3D) yesterday and got a chance to load my drawing... the tabs feature is fantastic!

Thanks for the info on the tabs! After I messed with the demo, the tabs feature and seeing some of the things that you guys have done with the software was all it took to push me over the top! :)

Got a chance to speak with Tony from Vectric on the phone yesterday. Great guy to deal with! I'm really glad I got this software!! In just the little time I've played with it, I can see that it is going to be great to use!

How is VCarve used? I assume that I create the file with VCarve and use Mach3 to load it. Any thing special to set up or watch out for?

Thanks again!

dighsx
02-28-2007, 09:02 AM
The only things you need to watch out for in VCP are the order of your toolpaths. For example say you're cutting some parts out make sure it cuts the inner parts out first and then the outer. It doesn't do this automatically for you.

Also if you create a toolpath and then edit the selected tool for that path you've got to remember that you're only changing it for that file and not updating it in the tool database. And the same goes for if you update the tool database, it doesn't change already selected tools. This is nice in some ways but I've gotten burned a few times too.

Other then that and few other little minor things it's great stuff.

ccsparky
02-28-2007, 09:13 AM
The only things you need to watch out for in VCP are the order of your toolpaths. For example say you're cutting some parts out make sure it cuts the inner parts out first and then the outer. It doesn't do this automatically for you.

Also if you create a toolpath and then edit the selected tool for that path you've got to remember that you're only changing it for that file and not updating it in the tool database. And the same goes for if you update the tool database, it doesn't change already selected tools. This is nice in some ways but I've gotten burned a few times too.

Other then that and few other little minor things it's great stuff.

Thanks Jay,

Can't wait to get going, hopefully this weekend! Was going to bring my machine home this past weekend but it ended up snowing, we got about 6 inches on the valley floor and the Sierra's got as much as 9 feet or more. The ski resorts are going nuts, they averaged 5 - 6 feet from the last two storms in the past two weeks.
I've got it set up to do the pocket work first, then cut the inner parts then move to cut the outside.

dighsx
02-28-2007, 09:15 AM
You're really going to like it. You can do just about anything you think of with their software. I even do some cad-like work in it. I've created parts from scratch just using their stuff.

9 Feet of snow. That sounds pretty good to me.

Tony Mac
02-28-2007, 10:05 AM
Hi Jay - You should find that VCarve Pro does automatically cut inside shapes first before profiling around the outside. This works with any number of selected vectors and is especially useful and important when cutting shapes out of sheet material, otherwise the piece breaks free before the inner profile is cut.

Just select everything and use Profile = Outside and it takes care of the inner and outer toolpaths, compensating for the cutter radius.

If you have a file that doesn't appear to do this can you send it to us.


Hi ccsparky - It was a pleasure talking with you yesterday and I hope you received the updated license details. We've only had 1 day of snow here in England and it sounds like you've got our load all at your end.

Tony

dighsx
02-28-2007, 10:18 AM
I was more refering to if you create more then one tool path then it's up to you to make sure the cut order is the way you want it. Yes if you do it all in one big toolpath it'll take care of it, but I never seem to make my files up that way, so I have to watch and make sure I've got it the way it needs to be machined.

ccsparky
03-03-2007, 08:17 PM
Today was a fun day! :)

Worked on cutting out the parts for my control / power enclosure with one whoops.

32888 32889 32890

32891 32892

ccsparky
03-03-2007, 08:21 PM
Finally got some man size cuts in the top, oh yaaaa

Man these things can make the dust! Next thing on the list has got to be the dust collector system! :)

32893


Here's some free advertising for you Joe ;)

32894

David Da Costa
03-03-2007, 08:24 PM
Looks good!

ccsparky
03-03-2007, 08:24 PM
Here are some more shots of it coming together... Look familiar Jay? :)

32895 32896 32897

32898 32899 32900

I'll upload some videos shortly of the machine in action.

bp092
03-03-2007, 08:25 PM
sparky your machine looks awesome, I'm still impressed with your rails, mine have black marks dug in now :( but it still works well, although doesn't look peeerdy when diiirrrty.. nice touch for joe, I laughed haha.. I actually have a few of those clamps from a rockler drill press table I never used, I should get some longer t tracks and mill out.. any issues with not having a spoilboard though? I don't dig deep into mine, or atleast I don't try to go more then 3/32's, but it happens ..

keep up the good work man! Pm me if you want to see stuff I've done

ccsparky
03-03-2007, 08:32 PM
sparky your machine looks awesome, I'm still impressed with your rails, mine have black marks dug in now :( but it still works well, although doesn't look peeerdy when diiirrrty.. nice touch for joe, I laughed haha.. I actually have a few of those clamps from a rockler drill press table I never used, I should get some longer t tracks and mill out.. any issues with not having a spoilboard though? I don't dig deep into mine, or atleast I don't try to go more then 3/32's, but it happens ..

keep up the good work man! Pm me if you want to see stuff I've done

Thanks Brian, I'd love to see some of your work!!

I laid down a piece of 3/4" and then mounted the rails on top of that. They are 1/2". I then cut and installed 3/4" in between the rails. This gives me 1/4" of spoil board. Once it's shot I just remove the screws at each end and replace. I really like the way David and other have cut the t-track into their boards, that will probably be a much easier way to go! Never have to worry about sending blue aluminum chips flying :) If I pay attention I should not have a problem as long as I keep my cuts from going deep enought to hit the rails. Have to get some limits installed one of these days!

bp092
03-03-2007, 08:37 PM
Yup. One word of advice and this is for even the most tedious of people, watch what is on your table! I've come very close to screw heads, now I check everything out before I cut to make sure if I'm cutting with minimal waste. If it's for other people and they are paying I'm requesting 1-2 inches + for each side for the peace of mind and faster setup. Have fun sparks! Send you a pm once I get my machine running and have a good hour of waiting to do my pm's. :)

joecnc2006
03-03-2007, 08:43 PM
Very nice looking, will look great stained. How did the machine perform for you?

Joe

ccsparky
03-03-2007, 09:03 PM
Very nice looking, will look great stained. How did the machine perform for you?

Joe

It performed very well! Thanks to you, and the gang for getting me to this point! :cheers:

The cuts are perfect! I double checked everything with my AutoCAD drawings and they were right on the money! My mouth dropped open while I was watching the machine work, could not believe what I was seeing :D

VCarvePro is also one excellent piece of software and worth every penny!
It made creating tabs and everything else very simple!

I've got a few videos uploading right now, it will be a little while before they are ready though.

Again, thanks and I highly recommend your machine to anyone that wants to build one!!!

ccsparky
03-03-2007, 09:58 PM
Here's the first video

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8430994061075901023&hl=en

ccsparky
03-03-2007, 11:21 PM
Here are two more videos

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1045855180954695781&hl=en

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8151405401299243586&hl=en

David Da Costa
03-03-2007, 11:44 PM
Excellent!

DougO
03-04-2007, 02:19 AM
Looking good Sparky. I'm glad you have it going your way. Machine looks like it runs very smooth. Isn't it fun to watch it do some actual constructive work?

Doug

ccsparky
03-04-2007, 11:12 AM
Excellent!


Looking good Sparky. I'm glad you have it going your way. Machine looks like it runs very smooth. Isn't it fun to watch it do some actual constructive work?

Doug

Thanks David & Doug!

Doug, it is a tremendous amount of fun. I've been drawing this morning and the more I draw the more I think of to do with the machine. :)

Here's another video
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2912320922672458174&hl=en

I have one more being processed and then I'll stop boring everyone with the videos ;)

calgrdnr
03-04-2007, 11:22 AM
Great Videos, I know I'm not bored, But then again mines not running yet to watch :) Thanks for naming the last one Joe's cnc 2006 it makes it easier to call up when I want to show someone what I am building (nuts)

ccsparky
03-04-2007, 11:24 AM
Great Videos, I know I'm not bored, But then again mines not running yet to watch :) Thanks for naming the last one Joe's cnc 2006 it makes it easier to call up when I want to show someone what I am building (nuts)

Thanks! Will be watching, can't wait to see it! :)

I've named them all Joe's CNC 2006 and that's the way it's showing up in my Google video list. I'll have to go back and check to make sure everyone is seeing what I'm seeing.

calgrdnr
03-04-2007, 11:48 AM
I went back just now, I see them all as Joes CNC 2006.hmmm losing my mind I guess. Keep up the good work.

ccsparky
03-04-2007, 12:21 PM
I went back just now, I see them all as Joes CNC 2006.hmmm losing my mind I guess. Keep up the good work.

Thanks! I noticed on this last video, it's showing up with the orginal file name and I believe it must take them a little while to get the Joe's CNC 2006 squared away.

Here's the last video

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3746187848615073806&hl=en

joecnc2006
03-04-2007, 01:17 PM
I don't think anyones gets tiered of watchin video's of any cnc machines, I know i don't. :)

Joe

bp092
03-04-2007, 02:50 PM
me either, your machine looks slick, I need better lighting now, you put my work lights to shame :(

dighsx
03-05-2007, 11:03 AM
Looks cool man. Makes me want to redo mine. Don't forget to put a warning msg on your panel. Kinda keep the tradition going. hehe

ccsparky
03-05-2007, 08:10 PM
I don't think anyones gets tiered of watchin video's of any cnc machines, I know i don't. :)

Joe


me either, your machine looks slick, I need better lighting now, you put my work lights to shame :(

Thanks! I know I get a kick out of watching all the videos, it never gets old! :)

ccsparky
03-05-2007, 08:12 PM
Looks cool man. Makes me want to redo mine. Don't forget to put a warning msg on your panel. Kinda keep the tradition going. hehe

Thanks Jay!

Will do, have to come up with something clever!

Bob

crocky
03-06-2007, 01:23 AM
Looks mighty fine, the videos are great :)

Cheers,
Bob

ccsparky
03-06-2007, 09:23 PM
Looks mighty fine, the videos are great :)

Cheers,
Bob

Thanks Bob!

ccsparky
03-06-2007, 09:31 PM
Hello everyone,

I am getting ready to purchase a Dust Collector and have my eye on this one from Delta 1HP. It's even in stock at the local Lowes for $199.00.

I would appreciate some input on what you all think about this unit! :)

33120

Here is the information provided by Lowes:

TEFC induction motor for long-lasting, smooth performance
Finned aluminum motor housing keeps motor running cool during long periods of use
Curved steel impeller produces maximum air velocity for efficient dust collection
30-micron top and bottom collection bags provide large dust collection capability
Sturdy steel base with four easy-gliding wheels for moving from machine to machine or for storing out of the way
Provides 3,450 RPM and 650 CFM
Includes (2) 30 micron collection bags, 4" x 5-ft. collection hose, base with four swivel caster assemblies, cord and plug, and instruction manual
Extended Protection Plans are available for an additional charge.

Thanks!!:)

joecnc2006
03-06-2007, 10:08 PM
That is the exact one i use, and David got the same, I added my own, trash can seperator. as shown on the woodcraft site. (you need to add a 19" dia. x 1" wide ring which i have sitting in the trashcan to keep it from colapsing, works really well. all i do is remove ring, cover trashbag over top and dump out, and pull tie strings on bag and throw away.

http://www.woodcraft.com/articles.aspx?articleid=408

ccsparky
03-06-2007, 10:23 PM
That is the exact one i use, and David got the same, I added my own, trash can seperator. as shown on the woodcraft site. (you need to add a 19" dia. x 1" wide ring which i have sitting in the trashcan to keep it from colapsing, works really well. all i do is remove ring, cover trashbag over top and dump out, and pull tie strings on bag and throw away.

http://www.woodcraft.com/articles.aspx?articleid=408

Well if you and David have this model, I guess I can't go wrong! :)

I thought it looked familiar. I'll check both of your sites out as I do remember several posts about dust collectors.

Thanks for the help :cheers:

Marm
03-07-2007, 01:02 AM
I have the Delta one like that but it is 1 1/2 HP. I would check out Penn State Industries or some where else that has better bags, you will want something smaller than 30 micron. I really like my dust collector and it does a good job of sucking.

Buzz9075
03-08-2007, 11:49 AM
ccsparky, finally had time to go through your build. Nice job!

How did you join together the two pices of the X Axis frame attached backup? I was looking at cutting this as one piece of wood.

ccsparky
03-08-2007, 10:03 PM
I have the Delta one like that but it is 1 1/2 HP. I would check out Penn State Industries or some where else that has better bags, you will want something smaller than 30 micron. I really like my dust collector and it does a good job of sucking.

Thanks Marm, I've been checking out the site and others. Seems many models have 1, 2 and 5 micron filters / bags.


ccsparky, finally had time to go through your build. Nice job!

How did you join together the two pices of the X Axis frame attached backup? I was looking at cutting this as one piece of wood.

Thanks!
If you're talking about the ribs, I didn't join the two together. I put all of the ribs together, glued the long ribs to the 1/4" MDF and tacked them. Flipped the unit over, pulled out the short ribs, glued and installed the other 1/4" MDF then tacked everything. I made sure at each step to check for square.
Once all was glued and tacked with both skins on it becomes very sturdy!

ccsparky
03-08-2007, 10:07 PM
Tomorrow I'm going to make a trip to the WoodCraft store. It seems we have one about 25 miles away. Man is that going to be fun! Plan on checking out the Dust Collectors to compare cost and features against the Delta I want to purchase.

Any last minute suggestions on which unit and or add ons to buy are always welcome!!! :)

Thanks!

jllewel812
03-08-2007, 10:37 PM
Check out the Harbor Freight 2hp dust collector. You can then upgrade it to a 1 micron filter for another 100$ from:




http://www.wynnenv.com/35A_series_cartridge_kit.htm


Nice job on the build btw. :)

Buzz9075
03-09-2007, 08:23 AM
I think I am missing something, where did the 1/4" MDF come from. My understand is there is no skin on the bottom of the X axis ribbing and the top has a 1/2 or 3/4 (depending on what you prefer). From the pictures I have seen of the assembly people are doing the entire X axis ribs are put together without anything on it. Do these guys have full lenght ribs? Or am I missing something?

ccsparky
03-09-2007, 08:36 AM
I think I am missing something, where did the 1/4" MDF come from. My understand is there is no skin on the bottom of the X axis ribbing and the top has a 1/2 or 3/4 (depending on what you prefer). From the pictures I have seen of the assembly people are doing the entire X axis ribs are put together without anything on it. Do these guys have full lenght ribs? Or am I missing something?

Hello Buzz,

Check out the pictures on page 4 post 42 here:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=235885&postcount=42
I think I have it covered on what I did to assemble the x-axis but check out David, bp092, Jays and others logs to see what they've done also.

I used 1/4" on both sides. I believe most everyone has used 1/4" on the bottom. Some may have used 1/2" or 3/4" on the top, I'm not sure.
As I said I used 1/4" on both, and then added 3/4" on top of that, mounted the t-track and sacrificial pieces on top of the 3/4".
I think the top is just a matter of what each person preferred.
As far as the ribs go Joe supplies the long rib section in two pieces and I think this was mostly to cut down on the size of the shipping container and cost. Some I believe have cut the long ribs in one piece, not sure without going back to check the logs.
Hope this helps! :)

pinemartin
03-09-2007, 08:41 AM
Has anyone used or know how good/bad BOBart is. am thinking of buying it converts cad dwg into cadcam then into g_codes umm
any advice would be great.

thanks all

ccsparky
03-09-2007, 08:42 AM
:D
Check out the Harbor Freight 2hp dust collector. You can then upgrade it to a 1 micron filter for another 100$ from:




http://www.wynnenv.com/35A_series_cartridge_kit.htm


Nice job on the build btw. :)

Thanks!

I'll check into that, thanks for the tip!
It appears my day has been booked so my trip to WoodCraft will have to wait until Saturday, work always seems to get in the way! :D

ccsparky
03-09-2007, 08:45 AM
Has anyone used or know how good/bad BOBart is. am thinking of buying it converts cad dwg into cadcam then into g_codes umm
any advice would be great.

thanks all

I haven't.
I use AutoCad and VCarvePro. Have only had VCarvePro for a couple of weeks and I can say it is one fine product! It'll do everything I want to do and then some! :)

joecnc2006
03-09-2007, 08:47 AM
I think I am missing something, where did the 1/4" MDF come from. My understand is there is no skin on the bottom of the X axis ribbing and the top has a 1/2 or 3/4 (depending on what you prefer). From the pictures I have seen of the assembly people are doing the entire X axis ribs are put together without anything on it. Do these guys have full lenght ribs? Or am I missing something?

a torsion box is only efective is it is skinned on both sides, when one side tries flex in one direction the other side provides the resistance with opposite force, a push/pull (+/-) situation which cancels each other out.

Buzz9075
03-09-2007, 08:52 AM
That clears everything up. Thanks for the addtional information.

Joe thanks for confirming how it works.

calgrdnr
03-09-2007, 10:07 AM
:D

Thanks!

I'll check into that, thanks for the tip!
It appears my day has been booked so my trip to WoodCraft will have to wait until Saturday, work always seems to get in the way! :D

They also have an accessory kit http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93601, got mine for 39. I haven't hook collector or kit up yet ( still in the Box ) Just thought I would put that out there while your looking for parts.

ccsparky
03-10-2007, 08:53 AM
They also have an accessory kit http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93601, got mine for 39. I haven't hook collector or kit up yet ( still in the Box ) Just thought I would put that out there while your looking for parts.

Thanks, I just added accessories to my shopping list, almost forgot that I would need them! :)

It just so happens that a few blocks away from the WoodCraft store is a Harbor Freight, I'm there today! I was at Lowes checking out the Delta 1HP unit yesterday. They also had the 1.5HP unit for $349 but I think it's much more than I need. Will make a choice after checking out what the other two locations have to offer.

ccsparky
03-10-2007, 07:25 PM
Well after a hard day of shopping here's what I came home with.

33322

Woodcraft had the Jet 1 1/4hp unit, and was $349, but the guy could not tell me much about it, Harbor Freight had a 2hp unit on sale for $169 (I think, pretty close to that) but it seem a bit much and did not seem to be well constructed (at least that's the way the floor model appeared).

Went back to Lowes and kept thinking it's the same one Joe and David have and it works for them, so here I bought the Delta.

I thought I was saving myself a few steps by buying the cyclone trashcan lid from WoodCraft, however it is intended for a 30 gal metal can and not the 44 gal Rubbermaid Brute.

33323 33324

After running it for a few minutes I can see where this thing is going to make a world of difference!!

Thanks gang for your help!

ccsparky
03-11-2007, 11:07 PM
Today I cut the dust collector attachment and brackets.

Here are a couple of shots of the dust collector attachment.

33402 33403

Will post a video of it later.

ccsparky
03-13-2007, 12:18 PM
Here is the video of the dust collector attachment being cut.

http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=312408

This machine continues to amaze me with how effortlessly it moves along.

The cutting board is from Sears, it's about 1/32" short of being 1/2".
Ordered some cutting board material from USPlastics so I'll re-cut the collector. :D

ccsparky
03-13-2007, 12:42 PM
Dust Collector grounding.

I am going to run a bare copper wire, probably about 14awg from the dust collector (attached to the Delta frame), down the inside of the 4" hose and into the chip collector (trash can). Run one from the dust collector attachment through the 2 1/2" hose and into the chip collector, then wire nut the two inside the collector.

Is this what everyone else is doing? Or are there other steps I need to take.

How critical is having the added ground for this type of operation?

Thanks for your help!

Bob

bp092
03-13-2007, 01:06 PM
You don't HAVE to but it is wise and will ground most static. I've "heard" that in an industrial setting with a bigger dust collector and pvc/plastic fittings you can get enough static electricity to start a fire. But I've only "heard of that" not heard of it actually happening. For me, copper wire is cheap, I'de rather not find out if the myth is true or not!

David Da Costa
03-13-2007, 01:24 PM
I have not ground mine and although I can feel some static on the hose I don't think for the amount of time that I am cutting that it poses a real risk.

Depdog
03-13-2007, 01:59 PM
Love the video, that was great.

ccsparky and bp092 do yall have build logs or Blogs somewhere of your machines?

Thanks
Glenn

ccsparky
03-13-2007, 02:12 PM
Love the video, that was great.

ccsparky and bp092 do yall have build logs or Blogs somewhere of your machines?

Thanks
Glenn

Thanks Glenn,

Just the log here on CNCZone.

Thanks Brian & David, this is my first real experience with a dust collector system! I really appreciate the help!

bp092
03-13-2007, 03:19 PM
Dust collectors are great. Makes life a lot easier in woodworking, some machines I work with every day wouldn't function properly without them.

Marm
03-14-2007, 01:06 AM
To ground my dust collector I bought antenna ground wire from Radio Schack and ran it on the outside, it can cause stuff to collect and plug the line on the inside. You do not have to run a ground wire but I hate it when I do something with the hose and it is running and I get a nasty shock.

ccsparky
03-14-2007, 09:00 AM
To ground my dust collector I bought antenna ground wire from Radio Schack and ran it on the outside, it can cause stuff to collect and plug the line on the inside. You do not have to run a ground wire but I hate it when I do something with the hose and it is running and I get a nasty shock.


Dust collectors are great. Makes life a lot easier in woodworking, some machines I work with every day wouldn't function properly without them.

Thanks guys! I'll check into that Marm and may try both ways.
I definetly want to keep the static down to protect my equipment and to help make sure my PC and other electronics are not exposed to static discharge. It may never be a problem, however a piece of wire is cheap insurance! :)

fade2black
03-15-2007, 12:03 PM
Nice job on the build. I have contacted Joe about getting mine ordered now. My questions is roughly how long did it take you to complete the build? I realize it depends on a lot of factors, but having a full time job like just about everyone else here, what can I expect?

bp092
03-15-2007, 06:42 PM
There are many variables. You could easily build it working full time in a few weekends of hard work. It's involved, but it isn't neccesarily rocket science either. You just have to have a lot of desire, patience and ambition to do it. Plus you have more know how and appreciation for the machine when it's all done. If you buy a commercial machine, you have to learn how it works over time, not just the imediate procedures, but know ever nook and part. With joes, as you build it you get familar with every nut and bolt that goes on it. Makes an easy time for anyone that plans on tweaking or fixing.

ccsparky
03-15-2007, 08:52 PM
Nice job on the build. I have contacted Joe about getting mine ordered now. My questions is roughly how long did it take you to complete the build? I realize it depends on a lot of factors, but having a full time job like just about everyone else here, what can I expect?

Thanks! You won't be disappointed in Joe's kit! Look forward to seeing your build once you get going!

Like Brian stated, a few weekends will get the machine assembled.
To get my machine to the point it is at today, I've probably got 80 to 120 hours into it, which includes painting, putting together the top cutting bed, the electronics, the cart it's sitting on and the progress on the control cabinet and dust collector assembly.
I still have to do the permanent wiring, finish the control / power supply cabinet, finish the cart it's setting on and so on.

I started my build on November 24 2006 and have enjoyed every minute of it (except the painting) :) and will probably never really be done with it as each time I visit the forums I see something created by someone else or some type of mod to enhance the machine that I'd like to do.
Take your time and enjoy yourself!!

ccsparky
03-24-2007, 10:12 PM
I ordered the Industrial ATC a couple of days ago. It will be here next week, so I thought I would fool around with an easy to remove dust collector attachment and here's what I've got so far. It still needs work but it only takes a few seconds to install and remove it. The down side that I can see so far is when it gets to the end of the table. Looks like I'll loose vacuum on the last six or so inches. Anyway not sure if I'll end up using this but I'm having fun making it. :)

34197

34198 34199 34200

34201 34202

I did not notice until I got down to the deeper passes that everything was cutting around 1/8" deeper than intended, by this time it was to late. I let it finish so I could see how it would line up. I ended up shimming the parts that were cut to thin. Everything lines up ok.
Now I'll have to find out what I did wrong. :confused:

bp092
03-24-2007, 10:19 PM
What did you set as your material thickness in vcarve? Those cutting boards are often 3/8" and not 1/2" or 3/8" heavy. That could be the reason for cutting an 1/8" too deep. if you zero on your spoil board then it it's probably something else, but I'm pretty sure you've said in the past you are setting z on top of the work piece. Nice dc attachment. I am moving mine to the front as well, on the side it doesn't always get everything or even trap it which is most important. Have a link to the industrial atc? I will order that and build it once I figure my machine out, now that I've bought so many bits it makes sense to start automatically loading them. But that means that I have to finally figure out the wiring for the multifunction cards though for the ac relay. (nuts)

ccsparky
03-24-2007, 10:33 PM
What did you set as your material thickness in vcarve? Those cutting boards are often 3/8" and not 1/2" or 3/8" heavy. That could be the reason for cutting an 1/8" too deep. if you zero on your spoil board then it it's probably something else, but I'm pretty sure you've said in the past you are setting z on top of the work piece.

Thanks Brian!

I ordered the 1/2" cutting board material from USPlastics and checked it when it arrived, it is 1/2". I started cutting a seal on some oak today also, same thing happened.

The only thing that I have done since the last time I used the machine was mess around with the M6Start macro and set Mach3 - General Logic Configuration - Tool Change to Auto Tool Changer. I put it back the way it was and try again.

By the way Joe, thanks for the tip on tracing in AutoCAD, works great!

ccsparky
03-24-2007, 10:35 PM
Brian,

Yes, I am setting Z on top of the material :)

Bob

ccsparky
03-24-2007, 11:12 PM
Here's the link to the Industrial Tool Changer
http://www.hightechsystemsllc.com/index_files/Page2045.htm

When I asked Derek which one to use with the Hitachi router, he replied with the following:
"You want to order the Taig Model. It is the best for the 1/2" adapter."

I ordered the Taig Model and the 1/2" adapter. I ordered several 1/4" collets as that's what most of my bits are. Will order other sizes as needed.

I still have to order my multifunction card. I've got a new PC on the way also, it should be here next week. Supposed to have some help bringing my machine home this week. Will be nice having it close so I can get more work time with it.

Bob

David Da Costa
03-25-2007, 01:11 AM
The dust collector looks very good. Does is restrict getting to the collet to change bits much?

Also for use with the ATC I think you may need to go with a free floating dust collector so that the ATC can be revealed to change tools.

I have not yet come up with a satisfactory design that would allow this.

David

ccsparky
03-25-2007, 01:40 AM
The dust collector looks very good. Does is restrict getting to the collet to change bits much?

Also for use with the ATC I think you may need to go with a free floating dust collector so that the ATC can be revealed to change tools.

I have not yet come up with a satisfactory design that would allow this.

David

Thanks!

I have not installed the brush yet and did not try changing bits while it was on. I would guess about the same as Joe's original design since it's just a modification of it. It needs a little refining but loosen the two wings nuts and it just slide right out. :) I am thinking about changing the front mounts near the hose that slide into the wing nuts. Maybe having it come up from the dust collector, go up over and hang on the top router mount. Use a spring loaded pin to lock it in place and by lifting the pin it will be released to slide in and out. I'm just not sure if that will make it unstable.

You are correct about the floating dust collector, I thought about that after reading my first post and found it a little misleading. I built it to use without the ATC to make access to the collet easy. Have been following all the floating dust collect topics, very interesting!

What do you think about using HDPE for the tool holder?

David Da Costa
03-25-2007, 06:55 AM
I think if you made it out of 3/4 HDPE it might work, but stopping it flexing may be a problem.

Jason Marsha
03-26-2007, 08:14 AM
The dust collector looks very good. Does is restrict getting to the collet to change bits much?

Also for use with the ATC I think you may need to go with a free floating dust collector so that the ATC can be revealed to change tools.

I have not yet come up with a satisfactory design that would allow this.

David



I saw these pics on the zone (I think) but I do not remember the link.

Jason