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David Da Costa
11-02-2006, 04:07 PM
Well while I am waiting for Joe to cut all the pieces for me I have been busy ordering all the hardware and electronics I will need.

Pretty much everything has arrived and is laying on the floor of my office. I still need to get the 4x60" gas pipes from home depot which may take a couple of trips, due to car constraints ;)

I also have my Xylotex 3 axis board and 260 oz.in steppers which I have hooked up to Mach 3 and work great. I also have the CNC4PC multifunction card which I will hook into the circuit and test next and then I will install it all in the case I got from Mouser.

Yesterday I made the dust extraction bracket that Joe designed on my IMService CNC Router and I have to say I am very pleased with the results. I have attached two pictures of it.

I looked around for a suitable desk/workbench for the router once it is built but after a lot of research and pricing I was pleased to find this on overstock.com http://www.overstock.com/?page=proframe&cid=95138&fp=f&prod_id=1088779
which I think will work fine and they only charge $3 for shipping!!!

More to come soon, (bearing brackets to be made and the electronics to be completed).

David

Visit my websites:

www.scalereplica.com
(http://www.scalereplica.com)
www.digitaloceans.net (http://www.digitaloceans.net)

bp092
11-02-2006, 06:10 PM
awesome, I'm in the same boat.. I'm not a metal worker so I find the bearing brackets and the other metal parts interesting to cut.. as a woodworker tonight I scrambled my shop thinking of how I could cut it.. first I started with a jig saw and metal blades (not accurate even on a good line) then I just ended up using my bandsaw with a miter guage and that worked well.. is it just me (not complaining) but the bearing angle brackets/milling procedure/size isn't really listed in joe's manual/plan? Is appears to just be the same as the JGRO which I've been using as reference. Is that safe to assume? If so, how do you plan to grind down the two parts on each where it has to be flat for a washer and bolt to sit in and hold it to the MDF? Just got me in a headache. Wood is no problem, but aluminum changes everything..

David Da Costa
11-02-2006, 06:17 PM
Yes, I have the same questions as the depth of the 2 flats on the angle and the distance from the apex for the holes for the bearing bolts are not shown on Joe's drawings, although I think I saw on one of the many re-reads of his thread that they are .433 and I don't think the flats are critical in terms of depth so I will probably guess - unless of course anyone knows better?

David

bp092
11-02-2006, 06:33 PM
Yes, I have the same questions as the depth of the 2 flats on the angle and the distance from the apex for the holes for the bearing bolts are not shown on Joe's drawings, although I think I saw on one of the many re-reads of his thread that they are .433 and I don't think the flats are critical in terms of depth so I will probably guess - unless of course anyone knows better?

David


If it's the same as JGRO then check out JGRO's plans. They are the same length, look the same but I'm wondering if it's mildly different. How do you plan to make the flats?

DayneInfo
11-02-2006, 08:09 PM
I am looking forward to seeing this come together. I also bought the Xylotex 3 axis setup but am doing a different set of plans. The first posts I read here was about Joe's machine. I think it will be the one I build next.

Dwayne

gtschance
11-02-2006, 11:30 PM
If it's the same as JGRO then check out JGRO's plans. They are the same length, look the same but I'm wondering if it's mildly different. How do you plan to make the flats?
Hello all, I am now waiting for Joe to ship my kit.....(another week or two). I have everything else ready for the assembly.

In looking at Joes R2 plans in the eDrawings viewer and conducting measurements there, I found the following.

The depth of cut on all of the slides for the 1/4 bolt hole to mount is 0.125 Z and 0.75 wide. Same as JGRO.

Joe's X slide apex to hole center is 0.433.
Joe's X slide dimensions are the same as the Y slide for JGRO.

Joe's Y slide apex to hole center is 0.433
While Joe's Y slide is similar to the JGRO X slide - they are NOT the same dimensions.

Joe's Z slide apex to hole center is 0.465 [Note the difference from above].
This is the same dimension set as the JGRO.

I did not dive into the ACAD drawings in Joe's package yet - just the eDrawings view of the SolidWorks files. Joe will have to tell us if the observations I have listed above are by specification.

Regards,
George

esmiller
11-02-2006, 11:32 PM
If it's the same as JGRO then check out JGRO's plans. They are the same length, look the same but I'm wondering if it's mildly different. How do you plan to make the flats?


I built the JGRO machine, and I just used a hand file and a few buckets of elbow grease *Grin*

Eddie

bp092
11-02-2006, 11:54 PM
this might sound like a stupid question, maybe you guys are using mills for everything though, for me by hand with steel rules, a band saw and a drill press I found decimal measurements to be a pain so I converted all the liner dimensions in autocad to architechtural and fractional.. not sure exactly why some were within 32/s on the JGRO where they look as though they should be exactly the same, not to mention that I can't get accuracy by hand with a vice and I don't have a mill.. I ended up just following JGROS and checking Joe's edrawings to make sure I had enough of both.. seems to be working out well though.. David are you hooking that up to a shop vac? I have a full dust collection setup, wondered if I could use that eventually to tie it in :)

gtschance
11-03-2006, 12:04 AM
I used a bandsaw to cut the angle aluminum to length.

I used a drill press with a small straight cutting carbide router bit and a machinists vice to do the flats on the apex of the slide. I had been dying to try to do very limited aluminum work that way. I carefully worked about 1/3 of the depth on each pass. Worked OK. I did make sure to clamp down all travel on the drill press very tight before I started. Drill presses bearings are not really meant to carry the side load on their bearings I'm told but I got away with it this time.

I too converted to fractions for my measures.

George

bp092
11-03-2006, 12:22 AM
I hear yah. I know what I was doing was against all rules of metal working but my shop is all woodworking lol. Only accurate way to do the flats with what I had was to use some old 3/4 forstner bits, I still have a bit to finish up. They are meant for wood, but what the hay, I just adjusted the speed on my drill press, put on my safety glasses and went with the flow. Cutting the rods and pipes should be interesting. Was going to buy a metal saw but said screw it, might just use the one at work after punching out.

David Da Costa
11-03-2006, 12:43 AM
bp092:
Yes I will be hooking it up to a shopvac Yet to be purchased, but it could be adapted to any size opening.

David

David Da Costa
11-09-2006, 04:25 PM
Well, while waiting for Joe to complete my kit I have been busy making the bearing slides.

You can see in the attached pictures some of the completed slides and also a shot my my Sherline CNC mill busy cutting.

My next project is to build a PC for the Router. I had debated putting a second parallel port in the PC that I use for Mach 3 with my Sherline Mill and Lathe as well as DeskCNC with my IMService CNC Router, but as my new Router will be across the other side of the room I decided that I did not want to run a long cable.

I had a PC hanging around that I built as an music player some while ago and decided to cannibalize that. It has a mini flex motherboard so I ordered a new small case for it - the original one was significantly customized ;) and I may decide to also but the Xylotex controller board and CNC4PC multifunction board in the same case - yet to be decided.

David

bp092
11-09-2006, 07:27 PM
David,

Looking good, about where I'm at as well! Just waiting on the parts from joe, got all the rest of the stuff from enco today. Howd you end up milling the flats on the angle? Looks like you may have done it on your mill. I'm planning on running mach 3 on a mini itx computer with a 17" flat panel monitor :).. will post results soon like you.

ger21
11-09-2006, 07:44 PM
Have you guys tried Mach3 on those mini PC's? I know that people have had problems running Mach on them in the past, but maybe the newer ones are better.

bp092
11-09-2006, 07:49 PM
Well the only thing I could think of is over heating, but the one I'm going to build is going to have two fans, one for the CPU/heatsink and one for exhaust.. going to keep it small so I can case it from the dust and put a filter by the fan ports.. other than that it's going to be fast, atleast 1 ghz ram, maybe a 40 gig HD (no need for more than that).. almost all the parts are coming from either newegg or ebay. I will have to see though, never seen how mach 3 works the CPU and if it does work it hard which it really in essence shouldn't then it will be a problem for long run times.

David Da Costa
11-09-2006, 07:59 PM
bp092, Yes I did all the work on the mill (CNC) including drilling the holes. Saved a lot of time in having to mark up each one.

ger21, the PC I am building using a mini flex atx motherboard runs a 1.6Ghz Pentium 4 so it should be powerful enough to run Mach 3.

I got the new case for it this afternoon and I think there is plenty of space for the Xylotex card and the CNC4PC multifunction card along with fans.

Next step is to modify case.

David

David Da Costa
11-09-2006, 08:17 PM
bp092, yes the were cut on my CNC Sherline Mill including drilling holes whch saved a lot of time in not having to mark up each one.

ger21, the mini flex atx motherboard that I am using runs a 1.6Ghz P4 which should be powerfull enough.

I got the case this afternoon for it and there should be plenty of room for the Xylotex board and the CNC4PC multifunction card along with some extra fans.

Next job - modify case.

David

ger21
11-09-2006, 08:35 PM
It's not that they are too slow. Some PC's just aren't able to run Mach. VIA chipset motherboards have been trouble in the past, although lately I haven't heard of many (any?) problems.

David Da Costa
11-09-2006, 08:39 PM
Got you. Well I have Mach 3 up and running and it looks fine but I guess the real proof is when I go to run the router.

ger21
11-09-2006, 08:42 PM
The driver test is a good indicator of whether or not it will work. Run drivertest.exe in the Mach folder.

bp092
11-09-2006, 09:36 PM
If it's a huge problem I will swap out the motherboard and change things around. Got lots of parts around, not that hard to go from one to the other, just a matter of getting different cases.. first and foremost is the cnc though, likely going to run mach3 from my laptop first, then migrate over.. already got mach3 up and running on it and it seems to be functioning great, just can't wait to run my first gcode :)

David Da Costa
11-10-2006, 06:18 PM
I ran driver test and the line is pretty flat with very few tiny spikes

David

David Da Costa
11-14-2006, 12:57 PM
As promised here are some pictures of the pc/ controller that I am building.

The motherboard I am using is a Freetech mini flex atx board that I had in an old pc I built a few years ago. It has a Intel P4 1.6Ghz CPU and 384mb RAM + I have installed a 40Gb hard drive. All installed in a mini tower case I ordered from Newegg.com for $40.

The first picture shows an overall view of the interior where you can see the the motherboard, the CNC4PC multifunction card at the bottom and the Xylotex controller installed on a piece of HDPE cut to fit into an internal 3.5" drive bay.

In front of the Xylotex board is a large fan installed in the front of the case that will suck air out of the case and to be installed on the end of the HDPE will be a fan to blow air accross the heatsink (see other picture).

At the top of the case mounted under the CDROM drive is the power supply for the Xylotex board.

The second picture shows a close up of the CNC4PC board installed on risers I added to the case and the Xylotex card mounted in the 3.5" internal drive slot.

The third image shows the Xylotex power supply mounted in the spare 5.25" inch slot under the CDROM drive.

I modified the front panel blanking plate that would normally be removed to install a floppy drive (who remembers them) to install a switch for the cnc contoller power and an enable switch for the charge pump on the CNC4PC multifunction card as well as an estop button ( I will probably mount a second estop somewhere on the router itself.

Everything is still in "mockup" as I decided where everything is going to fit and then I shall wire it all up.

My final piece to add will be to add to probably one of the sides of the PC case somewhere for the stepper motor cables to exit as well as sockets for the limit switch cable pluge.

David

Visit my websites:


http://www.scalereplica.com

http://www.digitaloceans.net

David Da Costa
11-14-2006, 01:09 PM
Here is one final picture of the Xylotex board mounted on a piece of HDPE using some plastic stand offs I ordered from Mouser.

Also show in the rough position is the fan that will blow air accross the heat sinks.

bp092
11-14-2006, 02:01 PM
Awesome pics David, like the controller. What's the multifunction card for besides "the obvious"? Was it hard to wire the eswitch in, does the xylotex kit include a place to wire it in on the board? I know how to set it up in mach3 but was wondering.. what do you plan to make the eswitch do, just turn off the router and electronics or have it raise up to the home position? Is your router spindle going to be turned on manually every time or do you plan to hook it into the electronics? thanks!

David Da Costa
11-14-2006, 02:21 PM
The eswitch is not yet wired, but is easy to wire, it just connects to 2 of the connectors on the multifunction card as do the limit switches and the enable switch.

I beleive you can use the Xylotex board to connect it as the provide terminals on the card for the unused parallel port lines, but by doing everything through the multifunction card it gives you the benefit of optoisolation from the PC.

The E-stop will (and I believe should) just stop the router and electronics as I don't want the machine moving if I hit the estop in case I am hitting it because I am all caught up in the machine ;)

My router will be hooked into the multifunction card which has a solid state relay built into it. You can see details of the card here http://www.cnc4pc.com/Multifunction_CNC_Board.htmhttp://www.cnc4pc.com/Multifunction_CNC_Board.htm

bp092
11-14-2006, 03:03 PM
Thanks for the info David. I will do some research. I know I want an e-switch, it's a diy hobby machine, but it's still serious non-forgiving machinery. I like how you combined it in one tower, it's clean that way, less wires everywhere :).. where did you get the e-switch/function buttons from? Thanks for your info, it's very helpful for my upcoming build of joes.

David Da Costa
11-14-2006, 03:31 PM
The E-Switch I ordered from IMService http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=60http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=60
They use to have a large and small one (just different size button) but now just have the small one. I will probably order the small one and swap it with the one on the PC and put the large one on the router itself.

The on/off and enabble button I got from mouser.com (part number 611-DA102J4RS215QF7).

joecnc2006
11-14-2006, 03:33 PM
Nice controllor setup, I like the all in one case. is that a 24v PSU for the controllors?

I would also make sure the wireing is isolated to areas and shielded as not to get any interfierence from electronics.

David Da Costa
11-14-2006, 03:41 PM
Hi Joe, yes, if you the mean the one under the cdrom it's the one that came with my Xylotex kit.

Yes once I get everything in it's final place, I will try to keep the wiring as far away from interference sources as possible. Of course that is the risk of an all in one setup.

Worst case I have a separate box that I will just re-install the controller stuff into if I find I am having any interference issues.

Any recommendations on shielding?

joecnc2006
11-14-2006, 03:54 PM
Hi Joe, yes, if you the mean the one under the cdrom it's the one that came with my Xylotex kit.

Yes once I get everything in it's final place, I will try to keep the wiring as far away from interference sources as possible. Of course that is the risk of an all in one setup.

Worst case I have a separate box that I will just re-install the controller stuff into if I find I am having any interference issues.

Any recommendations on shielding?

just use shielded wireing, also lateron you may want to beef up the power supply. run it a while with the 24v and see how it performs, I use 36vdc with 200oz motors and works good. 80ipm is what i cut at mostly.

joe

bp092
11-14-2006, 07:32 PM
joe did you buy the kit from xylotex or just the components?

David Da Costa
11-14-2006, 08:31 PM
bp092, I believe that Joe used HobbyCNC kit not Xylotex.

bp092
11-14-2006, 08:38 PM
sorry I meant you lol, long day, long day of work and everything, minds in two different places :)

joecnc2006
11-14-2006, 09:25 PM
joe did you buy the kit from xylotex or just the components?

none of the above, I got the HobbyCNC 3 axis kit, 36v 10a power supply, 200oz motors, and cuts at 80ipm with no problems, I have been running that kit for a year now.

joe

bp092
11-14-2006, 09:51 PM
:D yeah I know, meant David, tired :(

David Da Costa
11-15-2006, 12:43 AM
I bought the Xylotex 3 axis ready kit http://www.xylotex.com/3AxisReadyKit.htm

David Da Costa
11-15-2006, 02:17 PM
Okay, here is todays update.

I have added to the right hand side of the case the motor cables and 3.5mm phono jacks for the limit switches. I have shown one of them with a limit switch phono plug connected (mock-up).

I need to add axis labels to the sockets next.

My next task is to add the sockets for the router into the case with connections going to the SSR on the multifuntion card.

David

David Da Costa
11-15-2006, 04:54 PM
One final photo of the sockets with label added. The label was made on Rowmark plastic using Vectric Vcarve on my IMService CNC Router.

bp092
11-15-2006, 06:13 PM
It looks good David. When is your kit coming? Can't wait to watch you build, I'm not that far behind, it's nice to get tips and hints ahead of time though :D. Where did you get the limit switches and cables from? I saw some decent ones on ebay but they looked kind of "cheap" and unreliable..

David Da Costa
11-15-2006, 06:26 PM
bp092, that would be a question for Joe ;), hopefully in a few weeks.

I don't know about tips and hints I am making it up as I go along :).

I got my limit switches from CNC4PC along with the multifunction card, they are nothing special but should work fine for the machine. Hopefully they will be good enough for home switches too. If not I may have to use optical swiches, but I would be suprissed if they are not. All I have on my IMService CNC router are "regular" limit switches and they work fine for both limit and home.

The motor cables were part of the Xylotex kit and the other cable I ordered from Jameco.

I have to say that it good being able to use this time until the kit comes to get everything else done and then when the kit comes I can concentrate on assembling it knowing all the other stuff is out of the way.

David

David Da Costa
11-17-2006, 04:31 PM
Here is another small update.

I have now added two power sockets to the back of the PC for the router.

In the picture in the middle you can see the 2 power sockets, the one on the left will be power from the wall, from there it will connnect to the solid state relay on the CNC4PC multifunction board and from the board it will go back to the socket on the right where I will plug my Hitachi router into and have control of poweer on/ off via G-Code (via Mach 3).

Now I have everything in place, the next job will be to wire it all up within the PC.


David

bp092
11-17-2006, 04:40 PM
nice David, I'm still waiting for Joes kit before I buy all of the electronics.. when do you expect your kit to ship? I paid him on the 2nd and he said 4 weeks, im so anxious and the time is going by much slower than I hoped :(.. I thought ordering the parts and the bearing assemblies were going to take a while, they only took a week :( but I'm patient I know he is busy

David Da Costa
11-17-2006, 04:48 PM
Soon I hope ;). Sounds like you need to get the electronics to keep you going until the kit arrives.

I have few more days of wiring then I am out of things to do to.

Kipper
11-18-2006, 04:46 PM
Here is one final picture of the Xylotex board mounted on a piece of HDPE using some plastic stand offs I ordered from Mouser.

Also show in the rough position is the fan that will blow air accross the heat sinks.
Looks good matey :thumbsup: just beware the deadspot on the fan (or add another one at the far side) Neat work too :beer:

David Da Costa
11-18-2006, 04:48 PM
Kipper, yes there is another one on the far side mounted in the front of the case

ccsparky
11-18-2006, 11:50 PM
David,

The pc combo is a great idea and looking good!

Really like your mill setup!
On your first page post 12 http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=215927&postcount=12
What is the black disk device to the left of the mill?

William

David Da Costa
11-19-2006, 12:09 AM
It's a Shuttle express controller that with the plugin for Mach 3 you can use to control the axis movements.

David

David Da Costa
11-19-2006, 12:10 AM
It's a Shuttle Express controller that along with the plugin for Mach 3 you can use to control the axis movement.

David

bp092
11-19-2006, 10:12 AM
Was wondering the same as well. I saw my brother had one that he uses for video editing, always wondered if that could be integrated to be used as a jog device. Cool!

David Da Costa
11-21-2006, 01:07 PM
Here is a small update showing the mounting bracket I cut on my small CNC router for the Xylotex fan.

The photo shows it mounted on the slide with the Xylotex card. This all mounts into one of the internal 3.5" drive bays in the computer case.

David Da Costa
11-23-2006, 08:53 PM
I have now completed and successfully tested my “all-in-one” computer/ cnc controller for the new CNC router that I will be building thanks to Joe.

The photo shows the completed setup and I have made a video of the setup in action (less any sign of a cnc router ;) ).

Sorry about the amateurish video, and I am not expecting to win any Oscars with it ;). The url for the video is http://web.mac.com/dacostad

Well that it, I have now completed everything I can before building the router, ordering everything required, building the bearing slides and building the cnc computer/ controller. Now I am hoping for an early present from Joe :)

David

bp092
11-23-2006, 09:46 PM
David, very cool work. I think you've come along way and you really did complete the router. I think for me the hardest part would be the electronics, getting the software setup and building any of the aluminum parts and getting them working properly, assembly of the MDF really won't be a problem. Can't wait for you to get the kit, I like the way you document your build. You put a lot of effort into the video, I was pleasantly suprised. Steppers are noisy huh? I was thinking the same thing when watching, but you know what, so is my router and so will my dust collector when everything is running :).. keep everyone posted, there are more people checking out your stuff man, just a lot of lurkers here even despite the lack of posts.

David Da Costa
11-24-2006, 09:30 AM
The steppers are'nt to noisy once they are mounted, but of course any noise they make a drowned out by the router and the dust extraction system.

I am really looking forward to building the rest of the router and will also make a video of that too.

ccsparky
11-24-2006, 09:41 AM
The steppers are'nt to noisy once they are mounted, but of course any noise they make a drowned out by the router and the dust extraction system.

I am really looking forward to building the rest of the router and will also make a video of that too.

David,

That's really nice! Great job on the PC/Controller!

I worked on my kit Wednesday and forgot to bring the camera home. Will be going by the shop today to work on it some more. Loads of fun! I'll post in my log tonight.

Keep up the great work, it's exciting to watch what you are doing!

joecnc2006
11-24-2006, 04:10 PM
David, I fimally got a chance to see the video, Very nice job on documenting it. Look forward to seeing everything working when you get it all together, and of course as soon as you get the kit.

Joe

David Da Costa
11-24-2006, 07:41 PM
Thanks everyone - I am having a lot of fun doing this and will try to document the build of the kit in a similar way.

David

David Da Costa
11-28-2006, 11:21 AM
Good news!!! My kit is on its way and I should have it by Thursday.

I am going to try to document the build as much as possible.

I am also intending to spend a bit of extra time painting the MDF as I want to get as "professional" a finish as possible.

I have been doing some experimenting and intend to seal all the cut edges of the MDF with drywall spackle, seal the MDF with spray lacquer (alcohol based so won't cause MDF to expand) then spray with Rustoleum white paint.

I am going to use Titebond III to glue the MDF along with 1" brads from my new :) Porter Cable brad nailer and compressor.

David

bp092
11-28-2006, 12:54 PM
It sounds good David, I can't wait to see your build.. good idea on drywall mud on the edges, MDF edges suck up paint differently than the face and generally look bad unless they are filled. Usually on return panels or exposed edges for MDF with millwork and casework in our shop we edgeband all of the edges to hide that. The mud should work fine though. What color do you plan to paint it? John Deere colors? heh I'm going to probably go with the hammered metal look or buffed aluminum paint. Nice buy on the PC kit as well, they make very good nailers and sanders, I think their guns are up there with senco.

David Da Costa
11-28-2006, 02:07 PM
No not " John Deere" color :) It's going to be white of course.

David

ccsparky
11-28-2006, 09:14 PM
Good news!!! My kit is on its way and I should have it by Thursday.


Congratulations!
Your progress has been fun to following!

Haven't been able to get back to mine, my son-in-law was home on leave (he's in the Army stationed in Germany) and I've been a little under the weather the past few days.
Will try to get back to it this weekend and have 12 days scheduled off around Christmas.

Well have fun and we'll be watching :)

bp092 you're up next!!

bp092
11-28-2006, 09:21 PM
Congratulations!
Your progress has been fun to following!

Haven't been able to get back to mine, my son-in-law was home on leave (he's in the Army stationed in Germany) and I've been a little under the weather the past few days.
Will try to get back to it this weekend and have 12 days scheduled off around Christmas.

Well have fun and we'll be watching :)

bp092 you're up next!!

Awesome David, I expect a another CNET type documentation of your goods upon arrival :D .. sparky, sounds like 12 days to work on the cnc huh? Feel better man. Up next? Oh I hope, but I know Joe's really busy so I understand if it takes time; he's doing the best he can. These logs will hold me over in the meantime :rainfro:

ccsparky
11-30-2006, 09:13 AM
Well today's the big day!

Be back later today after work to see it completed :rainfro:

David Da Costa
11-30-2006, 01:46 PM
Right :). Still waiting for DHL.

Went down to my garage today to bring up my nice new porter cable compressor and brad nailer to find that some kind person had stolen it!!!!!!

Had to run to Home Depot and pick up another one!!! I brought this one straight up to my workshop.

joecnc2006
11-30-2006, 03:00 PM
Right :). Still waiting for DHL.

Went down to my garage today to bring up my nice new porter cable compressor and brad nailer to find that some kind person had stolen it!!!!!!

Had to run to Home Depot and pick up another one!!! I brought this one straight up to my workshop.

Sorry to hear that.

bp092
11-30-2006, 08:22 PM
Right :). Still waiting for DHL.

Went down to my garage today to bring up my nice new porter cable compressor and brad nailer to find that some kind person had stolen it!!!!!!

Had to run to Home Depot and pick up another one!!! I brought this one straight up to my workshop.

Gotta be careful with the tools. This is why I love working in a shop as apposed to working on a job site. I trust everyone I work with and vice versa, but people are shady out there and I know job sites get robbed of tools all the time. So where are the pics?:confused: :D

David Da Costa
11-30-2006, 08:40 PM
I'll definately be more careful in future.

DHL failed to deliver today, they say it will be tomorrow :(

David Da Costa
12-02-2006, 11:24 AM
Well DHL delivered the kit yesterday morning and like one of the other builders I had to fight off the killer packing material :)

The kit was very well packaged and there was no damage to any of the parts.

I have to say that I am extremely impressed with the quality of the cuts and I could not help myself but to dry fit some of the parts and the fit is perfect!

It's great to think that the machine I am building is capable of cutting such high quality parts - Great job Joe!!

So attached is a photo of all the parts laid out on the table which will become the table for the machine.

More to come.

David

ccsparky
12-02-2006, 11:35 AM
What's the hold up Dave, I mean you got it yesterday, aren't you done yet? ;)

Hey, good for you! Can't wait to see your progress!

I have not done anything on my kit lately, been spending time with my Son-In-Law before he ships out to Germany. Daughter will follow in a week or so.
Plate breaking party at my house... just kidding, I'll miss them! :(

Have fun!

bp092
12-02-2006, 11:42 AM
Awesome David, all I can say is lucky!!! I'm anxiously waiting.. ever so patiently.. So I take it you will have it running by the weekend? heh, you got the electronics taken care of, shouldn't take thaaaat long :P nice tool chest under the table, did you make that? Dig the PC pancake too, have one of those, they are very reliable compressors.

David Da Costa
12-02-2006, 02:21 PM
Well guys I am trying to resist the temptation to push to complete it ASAP ;).

I think most of the time is going to be spent in the preparing for painting and painting.

Anyway here is the next picture.

This is the Z axis carriage top, bottom and sides glued together. As per the instructions I have put in the four nuts (and bolts) for the tension adjustment bolts. I think that the assembly instruction are incorrect in calling for 5/16 nuts as there is no way they will fit into the recesses provided neither will 5/16 bolts fit through the hole. I believe it should be 1/4 nuts and bolts.

I have asked Joe for confirmation.

By the way the band clamps I got cheap on Ebay and they work great.

David Da Costa
12-02-2006, 02:30 PM
....and here you can see that I have glued in the two rear braces and used a couple of 1" brads to make sure nothing moves.

I am amazed and the precision of fit of these pieces!

That now completes the Z axis carriage in terms of assembly before I paint it. So now to let the glue setup.

While that is happening I will probably start assembling the gantry.

bp092
12-02-2006, 02:33 PM
Looks good, be careful with the glue if you plan to paint it. All of your glue smeared everywhere near the joints will just have the paint slipping off and won't adhere. You can sand it down a bit with a block but it's going to be a PITA lol.

David Da Costa
12-02-2006, 02:50 PM
I guess that the side effect of putting on plenty of glue.

I'm not sure how much of a problem it will be though if I don't sand it of as I after I apply spackle to the cut edges and brad holes I intend to spray a coart or two of Zinsser BIN shellac nased primer which is sealeer and "stain killer". Then apply some Rust-oleum white sandable primer then finish with Rust-oleum Painters Touch semi-gloss white spray. What do you think?


David

bp092
12-02-2006, 03:01 PM
It won't adhere, I think you said you were using titebond. Even if it does it will just be temporary and will flake off. Scuff it up a bit with some 100. Even scratching up will be better than anything. Glue is kinda the devil, even more so when I do stain grade cabinetry, it turns white under stains and paints really poorly as I explained. It's not as if it's a thick layer of the glue though and the MDF probably sucked it up, just scuff it up a bit by hand and you should be all set. You should be liberal with MDF as it is pouris. When I use MDF as a substrate or core for a countertop or cabinet I often do a solid wood edging on it because as you know the edges painted look awful unless they are either edgebanded, filled as you're going to do or with an applied edge. I put on a nice layer, let it soak up for a few seconds, apply a bit more and then clamp it up. If I'm doing a big glue up I put massive amounts on for obvious reasons, as by the time I get to the end of the counter with pipe clamps the joint is starved of any glue. Don't be too concerned, form follows function, it's a cnc router anyways, you're going to get it dirty and mar it up a bit :D. Have fun David!

David Da Costa
12-02-2006, 03:24 PM
Yes I am using Titebond III.

Thank you for the advice, I really appreciate it.

Yes I know it's only a CNC Router, but it's nice to build something that looks "professional" when it's finished.

Besides that I figure that the better I seal the MDF the less chance of it absorbing fluids and warping or expanding.

Thanks again

David

David Da Costa
12-02-2006, 03:55 PM
Okay, next update.

So moving onto the gantry torsion box assembly.

The first picture shows the un-assembled parts of the torsion box. In the second picture I have only glued in the two pieces at the ends as I decided it was easier to get the whole thing square first with the minimum amount of pieces to reduce the amount of wet glue I have to handle at one time.

Once these are squared and the glue sets, I will then add the other pieces.

bp092
12-02-2006, 05:56 PM
Looks good, those parts look really clean and sharply cut, Joe did a nice job. I hear yah on sealing it, MDF is a very stable product by any means, more so than plywood, I'm planning on painting it for the same reasons. Did you set the bearing glides in the gantry z axis assembly part on the page before already or do you plan to put them in after?

David Da Costa
12-02-2006, 08:10 PM
I have test fitted the bearing slides and I need to shave about 1/16 of the angle aluminum and also the HDPE to get it to fit in place.

Of course these will not be permanently fitted until I have painted the carriage.

joecnc2006
12-02-2006, 08:54 PM
Looks very nice, I really like the clamps you are using. Also i sent you an e-mail.

For the glueing and alignment of the gantry side pieces use 1/4" bolts and just slide a few into place then use alot of glue and clamp down.

joe

David Da Costa
12-02-2006, 09:43 PM
That's a great tip Joe - Thanks and also thanks for clarification that the bolts should be 5/16 not 1/4.

David Da Costa
12-03-2006, 01:11 PM
After clarification from Joe, I opened up the recessed holes in the underside of the top of the carriage and hammered in 4 5/16 nuts. I used a good tip from Joe to use a bolt partially screwed onto the nut to act as a guide to ensure I sink the nuts squarl. You can see in the first picture the nuts in place with one of the guiding bolts shown in place to illustrate the tip.

The second picture shows the torsion box skins glued in place and secured with 1" brads.

bp092
12-03-2006, 02:21 PM
Looks good David. :) I have the same PC nailer, love it, hasn't misfired or jammed once and I Use it heavily. Those quick clamps are handy too, wish I had more but they put a dent in your pocket lol. Now common, only a few hours left to the weekend! When can we see some wood chips flyin!?

bp092
12-03-2006, 03:06 PM
Get the kit, spend the time while it's being cut fabricating the other mechanical parts and controller as David did. :)

David Da Costa
12-03-2006, 03:58 PM
Yep, I second that.

David Da Costa
12-05-2006, 02:17 PM
So yesterday I spent priming the z axis carriage and the gantry torsion box and today I will sand them and apply a couple of finish coats of semi-gloss white.

While I was waiting for the paint to dry I press fitted (using a vice) the bearings and acme nuts into the HDPE. In the picture I have shown one bearing and one acme nut prior to fitting.

David

David Da Costa
12-05-2006, 02:25 PM
Joe, can you confirm that you are using 1/4-20 x 2" bolts to hold the smaller anti-backlash block to the larger one on the Z-axis slide.

Thanks

joecnc2006
12-05-2006, 02:31 PM
Joe, can you confirm that you are using 1/4-20 x 2" bolts to hold the smaller anti-backlash block to the larger one on the Z-axis slide.

Thanks

yes 2" should work fine.

ccsparky
12-05-2006, 08:21 PM
David,

Looking good! Have you started on the bottom torsion box yet? I'm curious to see how you assemble it.
Which model PC compressor did you get? Was it a combo package?

Thanks and keep um coming!

bp092
12-05-2006, 08:32 PM
sparky, if you're interested IMO I'de get the 3 combo.. I only got the nailer and compressor a while back but ended up buying a 18 gauge crown stapler and I'm about to buy a PC pinner as well.. wish I bought them all together would have been cheaper but these days I seem to be buying tools for whatever needs that arise as apposed to what I would idealy like lol, btw hows your build going?

ccsparky
12-05-2006, 08:38 PM
sparky, if you're interested IMO I'de get the 3 combo.. I only got the nailer and compressor a while back but ended up buying a 18 gauge crown stapler and I'm about to buy a PC pinner as well.. wish I bought them all together would have been cheaper but these days I seem to be buying tools for whatever needs that arise as apposed to what I would idealy like lol, btw hows your build going?

bp092,

That's the combo kit I had my eye on, 150 PSI compressor, brad nailer, finish nailer and a staple gun. Seeing that you and David have the PC I will take that as a good review and pick the set up this week. :)

Thanks!!

bp092
12-05-2006, 08:51 PM
PC rules, without a doubt. I love all of their neumatics, power sanders especially their belt sanders, and their routers. Their variable speed is popular for cnc routers, although I may opt with the hitachi because of peer pressure and price :D. Other brands for nailers, Ridgid is too plasticky, bostich is nice but their stuff seems to be getting cheaper these days, replacing metal parts with plastic.. Senco, no complaints, just that jams and misfires happen, never had 1 with any PC guns, whether framing/finish/staple etc.. but I use Sencos all day at work. It's mostly preference, but the PC is the most band for the buck. Sparky what the heck? Don't make me fly out there and build the rest of your kit for you! Get that thing built and cut some nice stuff in time for the holidays!

ccsparky
12-05-2006, 09:43 PM
Sparky what the heck? Don't make me fly out there and build the rest of your kit for you! Get that thing built and cut some nice stuff in time for the holidays!

I hear you, finally getting over the cold, but I've been spending as much time with my daughter as I can. She is moving to Germany sometime in the next couple of weeks. My son-in-law is a soldier in the Army and will be stationed overseas for a couple of years. Heck she hasn't even left yet and I miss her already.

Sorry, back on topic...

Thanks for the insight on the Porter Cable products and I'll get to work as soon as I can. Watching David's progress is driving me nuts! :)

David Da Costa
12-05-2006, 10:33 PM
Yes I got the combo, but only with the brad nailer. Interestingly the Home Depot PC combo is 135 psi not 150 psi.

ccsparky
12-05-2006, 11:12 PM
Yes I got the combo, but only with the brad nailer. Interestingly the Home Depot PC combo is 135 psi not 150 psi.

Thanks David,

Here's the info from Home Depots sight for the one I'm looking at:

Porter Cable
Three Nailer/compressor Combo Kit

Model CFNBNS

Price: $299.00/bx

Combo Kit Contents: 6 gallon, 150 PSI compressor with two couplers; 1-1/4 In. 18 Ga. brad nailer; 2-1/2 In. 16 Ga. finish nailer; 1 In. narrow crown stapler; 40 Ft. air hose with coupler and plug; 3,000 fasteners, nailer oil, and canvas carry bag providing users with everything needed packaged in one box for immediate use

• Compressor: 150 Max PSI allows users to drive more nails than a traditional 135 Max PSI compressor
• Compressor: 6 gallon tank allows users to drive a large quantity of nails on a single tank charge
• Compressor: 2.6 SCFM @ 90 PSI allows for quick compressor recovery time
• Nailer: BN125A uses standard 18 Ga. brads from 5/8" to 1-1/4" long; FN250B uses standard 16 Ga. finish nails from 3/4" to 2-1/2" long; NS100A uses standard 18 Ga. staples from 1/2" to 1" long

Internet/Catalog #100497650
Store In-Stock SKU # 222516

David Da Costa
12-06-2006, 12:00 AM
Yes, I just checked, the combo with just the one nailer is only 135 psi and has just one take off as opposed to the two nailer version.

David Da Costa
12-06-2006, 03:23 PM
So yesterday I put the top coat on the carriage and the gantry torsion box and you can see the carriage in the first picture with the bottom bearing slide in place and the top one in front of it ready to be fitted, with its adjusting bolts in place on the top.

While all the paint was drying I got to work making some of the other parts. In the second picture you can see the z-axis slide back assembly completed with the exception of trimming the ends of the u-bolts which I will do after I put it in place and adjust it too the drill rod.

The final picture shows the router mount assembly ready to be mounted to the back plate once I have finished painting that. Also shown in place is the dust extractor assembly which I made some weeks ago.

Today I will be fitting the x-axis bearing slide box to the side of the gantry and once fitted and tapped I will remove it for painting of the gantry sides.

I will also be gluing the two pieces of each gantry side together prior to painting on Friday.

bp092
12-06-2006, 08:34 PM
Looks awesome, I'm so anxious and jealous at the same time. Can't wait to see the chips flying on your machine.

David Da Costa
12-06-2006, 08:53 PM
I am having a lot of fun making it! The painting is a bit of a pain as it is so big ;).

bp092
12-06-2006, 09:46 PM
Sounds like you need an HVLP. Get a decent sprayer and you will NEVER use a brush again. You've got the compressor, for light work it will run decently on your PC compressor. It will keep refilling though, gotta be careful not to overwork it. I'm about to buy a better spray gun, sick of my suction feed, going to buy a pressure pot & gun kit. The cnc router (may) give me a reason to buy it sooner lol. I'm a wood lathe nut though, I wonder if a 4th axis could ever be adapter to this cnc down the road for rotating a jaw chuck or threaded chuck to move it in sync with the router. Seen it done, just wonder if this router could handle it or if that's for another design down the road. :D Would be nice to crank out turnings on the cnc.

David Da Costa
12-06-2006, 09:55 PM
I am actually using spray cans. But I agree an HVLP would be good.

DayneInfo
12-06-2006, 10:03 PM
I bought this one to try at work. My guy who does the painting seems to like it. I figure if it last 6 months we got our money out of it. Might be just fine for around the house/shop. They have larger ones too.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/h7670

Dwayne

David Da Costa
12-07-2006, 02:55 PM
The z-axis carriage has progressed with the mounting of the z-axis slide and the 6 lengths of threaded rod along with the up bearing slide assembly.

It took a lot of brute force to install the drill rod and as Joe mentions I don't think that will be moving anytime soon ;)

I still have 3 pieces of the excess thread on the u-bolts to cut off but the battery on my dremel has gone flat so I am waiting for it to recharge.

Also completed is the router mount and slide (the dust extractor assembly has been temporary removed).

Next I will be mounting the bearings motor mounts etc on the carriage along with the router mount slide.


Visit my websites http://www.scalereplicas.com and http://www.digitaloceans.net

David Da Costa
12-07-2006, 06:01 PM
So I have almost finished the z-axis carriage and I have a question on the correct way of installing the z-axis lead-screw.

I position the leadscrew so that when the lovejoy coupler is in place both halves of the lovejoy couplers are fully on the leadscrew and the drive shaft from the stepper motor.

I put double acme nuts on both ends, I assume I snug the inner most nuts against the bearings - how tight should they be? I then assume I lock them both in position with the out acme nuts.

I install the lovejoys on the top of the lead screw having previously positioned the lead screw as mentioned at the beginning.

Finally I adjust the anti-backlash assembly to remove in up or down movement in the z-axis slide.

Can someone confirm, thanks


David

David Da Costa
12-08-2006, 06:26 PM
So the z-axis is complete!

I have even hooked it up to my controller and it works great. All that remains to be done is some fine tuning and adding limit/ home switches.

Also I made a short video of it in motion which you can see at http://web.mac.com/dacostad.

I have also copied all my build photos and text to the same website, I will continue to update my plog here and my site as I go forward along with adding more video as appropriate.

bp092
12-08-2006, 07:46 PM
Looks great David, sounds great too. Those steppers are noisy huh! Howd you end up cutting the steel rod so nicely? You've done an excellent job, I'm sure Joe will be proud to see the pics and vid.

HayTay
12-08-2006, 08:37 PM
The z-axis is now complete, so I thought I would commemorate this with a short video showing it in motion.

Before anybody tells me it’s the x- axis the carriage is laying on it’s back for the purposes of the demo. I also temporarily added a hand-wheel borrowed from my Sherline Mill.

In the video, why does the hand-wheel appear to have a higher RPM than the Lovejoy connector. Is it really turning faster, or is the Lovejoy not securely attached to the stepper motor, or is it some kind of illusion/video compression thing?

Good looking build so far! An impressive job done by both Joe2000che and yourself.

tajord
12-08-2006, 08:42 PM
i'm having trouble trying to view this file, shows me a "broken" quicktime icon.

good going david, how long you estimate to completion?

tajord
12-08-2006, 08:55 PM
ahh, got it now, "upgraded quicktime"

bp092
12-08-2006, 09:16 PM
i'm having trouble trying to view this file, shows me a "broken" quicktime icon.

good going david, how long you estimate to completion?


Make sure you've got the quicktime plugin. What browser are you using?

tajord
12-09-2006, 04:55 AM
that was the prob BP, thanks

David Da Costa
12-09-2006, 11:31 AM
bp092, the steppers are a little noisy, but the router and dust extractor will drown them out ;)

HayTay, it's an optical illusion, the hand-wheel and lovejoy connectors are all spinning at the same speed.

tajord, glad you got the video running.

Yesterday I primed the 2 sides struts for the gantry and today I hope to put on top coat.

I may also start construction of the x-axis bed assembly.

David Da Costa
12-09-2006, 11:47 AM
bp092 I used a $19 7" chop saw to do the cuts.

David Da Costa
12-10-2006, 01:35 PM
I have now started gluing up the x-axis base.

I am gluing one cross-member at a time making sure that I am keeping it square in each plane, working my way from each end towards the center.

This thing is so big I did not want to deal with glueing up all the ribs at once and although this way is going to take longer, I think it will provide a bit more control over the process of making sure it's square (I hope).

bp092
12-10-2006, 01:47 PM
Smart thinking David. Did you buy a dust collector too? Looks like a delta in the bg :D

David Da Costa
12-10-2006, 02:31 PM
Yes, well spotted, its the same one Joe has - he is so influential ;)

bp092
12-10-2006, 02:34 PM
Nice, new? Hey David check out the other Joe's design thread someone made an automatic tool changer for joes design. Looks sicK!

David Da Costa
12-10-2006, 02:38 PM
Yes new.

Yes I checked it out this morning and the video, very nice!

I actually have that quick tool changer on my Sherline mill and it is very well made. Now I am thinking about doing something similar. It would be nice if I could get the actual tool holder design that looks like it's made out of corian.

bp092
12-10-2006, 02:47 PM
Yeah that's corian, I would PM him, I'm sure he's got the cad drawing. I believe he said it was based on an existing design.

David Da Costa
12-10-2006, 06:12 PM
Ok, for the sake of no one else making the same "stupid" mistake as me, I have just had to smash out two of the cross members for the x-axis base!

I was building the base on my desk inserting the cross members from the top, having glued two in (one yesterday, one this morning) I was gluing the very end cross member in, when I noticed it was not going all the way to the bottom of the slot, which it won't do if you build it the way I was, as both the cross members and longitudinal members stop at the table surface.

So quickly I removed the one I was gluing in and wiped of the glue then tried to think of ways of sorting this out and quickly realized that my only choice was to sacrifice the two cross members so as to save the longitudinal ones, so with a mallet, I smashed them into sections and was able to lever them off the long members. Wish some clean-up I think the only pieces I will need to replace will be the two cross members.

Of course the only way to build it is to insert the long members from the top which really means gluing everything at once and then probably doing what I think Joe did and use the gas pipes with the end pieces temporary bolted on to make sure everything is square.

Now of course I probably will have to use epoxy on the joints that already have Titebond on them as I don't believe Titebond will hold (can someone confirm). Also I think I need to use a glue that has a longer setup time than Titebond iii if I am going to glue all the sections at once (can anyone suggest what I should use ).

You can only imagine the sinking feeling I had when I realized what I had done, but its not the end of the world and I guess we all have to make at least one screw up on a project (dont we?)

David

Madclicker
12-10-2006, 06:25 PM
Do you have a video? Seriously, you can avoid glue-up dementia by using a slow setting plasic resin glue. Loooooooong working time.

ger21
12-10-2006, 06:27 PM
If you want a long working time, try polyurethane (Gorilla glue). If you're going to use epoxy, I'd try to get as much Titebond off as possible, and use a thick epoxy thet will stay in the joint. Although if it's inside the torsion box, it shouldn't be that critical as the skins supply most of the strength.

bp092
12-10-2006, 07:03 PM
Sorry to hear that joe. Which pieces did you mess up? The Small rib or the long ones? I'm not sure what kind of tools you have but it would be pretty easy to reproduce. I know joes swamped, send me a PM if u want help. I'de just template it to 8th inch mdf and use a flush trim bit to some new 3/4 mdf. For slower setting time use a white glue, yellow glues (all) set fairly fast, even faster with MDF. Sorry about the titebond reccomendation, I only said it because I trust it on a commercial level on a day to day basis at work and in my own shop. I'm used to the fast setting times and grow acustomed to it, might be a bit too fast for some people. All isn't lost though, take it as a lesson learned.

David Da Costa
12-10-2006, 07:11 PM
Thanks guys.

bp092, it's David not Joe ;)

two of the small ribs.

You mean use a manual router, is'nt that sacrilige ;)

Yep, lesson learned.

bp092
12-10-2006, 07:36 PM
Sorry David lol that's the second time I've done that. Tired as usual.. :( and yeah with a manual router. It's how we radius mouldings/curved at work. It's easier to transfer something to a template that's 1/8th inch then transfer it to the material you're using such as 3/4-1" or even 2" thick hardwood. Are you tossing the ribs? Post pics maybe I can help.

David Da Costa
12-10-2006, 07:44 PM
The two ribs are in lots of little pieces as I had to break them to lever each one out of the long ribs.

I may have a go at your suggestion though.

bp092
12-10-2006, 07:48 PM
David, that doesn't sound good. I'de just have someone cut them out for you again (joe sounds swamped but maybe he could). If you can't find anyone ship me one of the ribs and ille template 2 for you and ship all 3 back.

David Da Costa
12-10-2006, 07:59 PM
Okay - thanks for the offer bp092 - I'll let you know.

ccsparky
12-10-2006, 09:54 PM
David,

Wish I had seen the pictures sooner. I noticed that when I had laid mine out.
Here is what I had in mind, let me know what you think...

As it is shown in your picture flip it over leaving all the short ribs in place. I am thinking of taking my 1/4" mdf and lay it in place. Square it up and then remove the 1/4" glue only the long ribs fit the 1/4" back in place, square and then tack only to the long ribs (Also add pipe to help keep it square). Once it has had a chance to dry, flip it over as it's shown in your picture. Remove each short piece, glue, re-insert. Glue and tack 1/4" mdf on.

bp092
12-10-2006, 11:13 PM
I kind of agree with sparky. This is where a stapler might come in handy though, crown staples hold material a lot better and pull them together as though you put a clamp on them. It's also a nice little helping hand until you get a clamp on it so you don't have to race before the glue sets.

gtschance
12-11-2006, 12:17 AM
Hello,

I am George. I have had my kit pieces from Joe a couple of weeks now. Really just got started on assembly last Friday. I decided to put together the torsion boxes first.

Sorry for not doing pictures, I was not thinking that my assembly work was in any way special and am behind others in assembly.....

The process I used for my "big" box was as follows (by the way, I used 0.5 MDF for my top and bottom skin and am using Titebond III):

1. Place one of the skins on bench. I placed some scrap 2x4 pieces under the skin so I would have some access room for clamps around the outer edge of the skin and the longer rib cutouts. I used dogs on my workbench surface and on the end vise (very nice to have) to clamp against the narrow ends of the skin. Not really necessary, but made me feel more secure about measuring for square in the process.

2. Lay out long rib "outers" [long section + short section butted end to end] with only the two end cross ribs. Note the orientation I used first would NOT allow the remaining short cross ribs to be installed yet. I was setting up for flipping the assembly over later.

3. Glue and brad (I have a Porter Cable pneumatic brad nailer) only at the ends (no glue on skin yet). Corner clamps on 4 corners (already had them).

[the long ribs are not yet glued together at the butt joints]

4. Use 4 1/4-20 rods through holes supplied to get the butt joints lined up and glued together. Adjusting tension (light pressure to ensure nothing would bow) allowed me to get high precision square with the help of the corner clamps. At the butt joints I sandwich clamped some 1x4 short scraps with wax paper against the ribs. Now I have just the outer square skeleton. Here I gave myself some time to let things set - it was way past time to go to bed anyway. It was not until the next morning that I returned to the assembly.

5. Removed the two sandwich clamps from the outers to reuse for the inners. Basically repeat the process [3 & 4] for the two remaining inner long ribs. Left the sandwich clamps on.

6. Clamped the skin against the outers to minimize disturbance for when I flip the assembly over. Carefully removed from workbench. Laid down the other skin on top of the bench in the same fashion as in 1 above.

7. Put (flip) assembly on top of bare skin clamped to workbench. Remove clamps holding skin to outer long ribs. Remove loose skin (now on top). Remove rods. Flip corner clamps from bottom to top now. Check square again.

8. Install (glue) inner cross ribs (6). The rib skeleton is now complete.

9. Put rods back in. Check and adjust square - rods make it easy.

10. Quckly spread glue on all top edge surfaces of the rib skeleton.

11. Place skin back on top. Check square. Clamp in multiple places around edge.

12. Brad around edges.

13. Brad in multiple places in the field. I used a long straight edge aligned to the cross ribs to see where to brad and avoided nailing in the immediate vicinity of the cross joints.

14. Let set (I gave it 3 hours).

15. Remove all clamps. Remove assembly from workbench. Remove "loose" skin and 2x4 scraps. Flip. Repeat 10 to 14.

Done.

Regards,
George

David Da Costa
12-11-2006, 12:25 AM
Hi George,

thanks for the detailed walkthrough. I will go over it tomorrow when I am a bit more awake, but it looks good.

Also thank you to everyone else who have provided suggestions.

David

David Da Costa
12-12-2006, 02:14 PM
So after getting over my screw up the other day I have progress to report.

As you can see the gantry is nearing completion.

I still have to build the bottom torsion box and install the 1/4-20 threaded rod to replace the temporary bolts currently holding it together. I have not glued the gantry sides to the top torsion box as I am concerned that if I need to get at a bearing etc at some point in the future I will not be able to take it apart if glued.

I also need to install the leadscrew and stepper motor.

I could not resist the last picture, in an attempt to convey the size of the gantry - it's quite big :)

Of course you can guess what is also coming soon - yes another video of the y-axis moving ;)


David

joecnc2006
12-12-2006, 03:05 PM
Looking good.

Mike F
12-12-2006, 04:10 PM
David,

Great looking build, very neat and tidy - just out of curiosity, is that carpet on your workshop floor??? If so, how come it's not full of glue, swarf, paint, burns etc. and all the other detritis workshop floors usually accumulate? I'm puzzled. Maybe you Yanks save it all up and dump it in my workshop :) LOL

Mike

David Da Costa
12-12-2006, 04:36 PM
Yes it is, I like to be comfortable when I work and I vacuum every day ;) and by the way I may live in the USA, but like you I am a Brit :)

The real back story is that when my wife and I moved to sunny California I wanted a separate area/ room for my workshop or as my wife calls it "The Man Room". Well the house we ended up buying had a "guest house" over the large double garage so I now have a full bathroom and a bar sink for my workshop :) along with some nice new carpet (the whole house had just been renovated). I figure once the carpet becomes to disgusting I will rip it out and install some cheap wood flooring.

David Da Costa
12-12-2006, 04:39 PM
Can some one who is using the 1/2"-10 lead screw specified by Joe along with Mach 3 and steppers (I am using the 269 oz.in Xylotex kit) share their motor settings in Mach.

Thanks

David

joecnc2006
12-12-2006, 05:37 PM
what is the board set at as far as stepping?

it is 200x10x(steps) = tpi

i would start with 80ipm at accel. of 15

David Da Costa
12-12-2006, 06:45 PM
Thanks Joe.

The Y-axis is live and it moves extremely smoothly and fast (80ipm)

Video tomorrow ;)

joecnc2006
12-12-2006, 07:06 PM
Yes it is, I like to be comfortable when I work and I vacuum every day ;) and by the way I may live in the USA, but like you I am a Brit :)

The real back story is that when my wife and I moved to sunny California I wanted a separate area/ room for my workshop or as my wife calls it "The Man Room". Well the house we ended up buying had a "guest house" over the large double garage so I now have a full bathroom and a bar sink for my workshop :) along with some nice new carpet (the whole house had just been renovated). I figure once the carpet becomes to disgusting I will rip it out and install some cheap wood flooring.

Lucky ! ! !

ccsparky
12-12-2006, 07:38 PM
Well the house we ended up buying had a "guest house" over the large double garage so I now have a full bathroom and a bar sink for my workshop :) along with some nice new carpet (the whole house had just been renovated).

Nice, I could go for a nice shop like that!!! :)

The gantry looks great and the white just looks so clean and professional!
How's it going with the damaged pieces?

David Da Costa
12-12-2006, 07:58 PM
There on there way ;)

bp092
12-12-2006, 08:37 PM
After working a 13 hour day on a concrete shop floor, I can say from experience, wood floors are so much nicer. Carpet is even more of a plus. It's not ideal for a woodshop at all, but for your application it's perfect. Trust me, I will be putting this thing together in my living/family room for the most part in front of the TV. My legs can only take so much concrete in a day! David you're work is very clean and tidy, you should be proud of your efforts. Can't wait to see the axis video you're preparing. My only question is, who will be the first to adopt the ATC after the other guy posted his? I'm thinking Joe.. but only time will tell haha.

David Da Costa
12-12-2006, 08:41 PM
Thanks bp092.

I really like the idea of an ATC, but we need to be mindful of any potential issues at running above 10,000 rpm.

I am interested to see what Derek at High Tech Solutions comes up with.

David

bp092
12-12-2006, 08:46 PM
Link?

David Da Costa
12-12-2006, 08:53 PM
http://www.hightechsystemsllc.com/index.htm

David Da Costa
12-13-2006, 05:23 PM
So the moment you have all been waiting for; the premiers of my latest movie titled "The Y-Axis" :)

Click here (http://web.mac.com/dacostad/iWeb/The%20World%20of%20David/Welcome.html) to go to my site and select Y-Axis Video from the menu at the top of the page.

Mike F
12-13-2006, 05:40 PM
David,

I heard your dulcet, British tones over your very slick video. You must be delighted with the build so far, despite your slight set back with the torsion box.

Have you pushed the boundaries of speed yet and ascertained your top speed? I find it very tempting just to sit and play, watching my X and Y moving round. It looks like you are more disciplined than me :) LOL

Mike

David Da Costa
12-13-2006, 05:45 PM
Yes, I am very delighted! I have never built my own machine before and certainly nothing the size of Joe's excellent CNC Router.

I have done some playing ;) I have it setup to max at 80 ipm and it will run at that speed, but it also stall towards the end of the axis sometimes and therefore I did the video at 60 pm. I am reasonably confident that once I get the lower torsion box built and on the gantry along with some fine tuning that it will run okay at the max speed.

joecnc2006
12-13-2006, 05:57 PM
Nice video, I run at 80ipm mostly but on small parts i cut at 60ipm, which is fast enough for me and it also seems to cut a little better on mdf at 60ipm, but it is a ballance of feedrate, and router speed.

You can always change out the leadscrew and nuts later to a two start and get more speed and torque, but get use to the machine the way it is first would be my recomendation.

David Da Costa
12-13-2006, 06:04 PM
Thanks Joe!

No, I agree with you 60 ipm is plenty fast enough for me too, it is not like I am running in a production environment anyway ;)

bp092
12-13-2006, 07:02 PM
Diggin' the video. Can't wait to get started, possibly in time for christmas? :D

David Da Costa
12-15-2006, 10:47 AM
So thinking ahead a couple of steps, I have been considering what I want to do about hold downs for the CNC Router.

I am going to skin the x-axis base in 1/4" mdf which I will paint along with the rest of the base to try to reduce the impact of any moisture etc. I will then use a sacrificial 1/2 sheet of mdf which I will clamp to the base using somthing similar to the clamps Joe made.

I will first level the sacrificial mdf to the machine by taking a face cut across the hole board with a 1.5" bottom cleaning bit.

So for hold downs I have been considering t-slot track, but this will really require at least 3/4" mdf, routing hex holes for 1/4-20 nuts on the backside layed out in a grid pattern and then using these with various 1/4-20 hold downs and finally using threaded 1/4-20 inserts in the 1/2" mdf in a grid pattern with various 1/4-20 hold downs.

I don't want to just screw things randomly into the sacrificial board as hold downs as.

Opinions?

What is the easiest way of drawing hex holes for routing in mdf (I am not very experienced with cad) and also what size should I make them for 1/4 nuts?

Finally, does anyone have any recommendations for a cheap CAD package for cabinet making that can output a standard file type for use in CAM?

I am hoping to have the CNC Router build finished by the end of next week.

There will be some new photos today of the cable carriers I installed yesterday on the z and y axis.

Thanks


David

David Da Costa
12-15-2006, 02:23 PM
Here is a quick picture of the igus cable chains I added to the z and y axis yesterday. They were bargains I found on ebay :)

joecnc2006
12-15-2006, 09:47 PM
Here is a quick picture of the igus cable chains I added to the z and y axis yesterday. They were bargains I found on ebay :)

David you are going to have a very nice machine when you finish, you are doing an excellent job, and we love your website with video's

joe

David Da Costa
12-15-2006, 11:12 PM
David you are going to have a very nice machine when you finish, you are doing an excellent job, and we love your website with video's

joe


Thanks to you Joe

David Da Costa
12-18-2006, 10:32 AM
Okay so it's Monday and the plan for this week are

1. to put a top coat on the two x-axis end pieces (primed last week).
2. Glue in two replacement ribs for the x-axis (to replace my small mishap a couple of weeks back.
3. Put skins on x-axis.
4. build and paint lower torsion box for gantry and add to gantry.
5. Paint x-axis base
6. Add 1/4-20 threaded rod to x-axis base
7. Add bearing, motor mounts etc to x-axis
8. Install gantry onto x-axis base
9. Install limit / home switches
10. Make another video ;)

Let's see how far I get.

David

tajord
12-18-2006, 10:34 AM
Ok dave, time to let her rip "rev rev"

David Da Costa
12-20-2006, 01:50 PM
I have now finished painting the two x-axis table end pieces. You will notice in the picture where I show the front of one piece and the back of the other that I masked of the area that joins to the rest of the table.

Although I do not intend to glue the end pieces to the table I wanted to leave myself the option in case I do, thus the unpainted area.

The replacement ribs are now glued in place on the x-axis table along with the bottom skin. I next will be gluing on the top skin and then a big paint job.

I have also put together the skeleton of the lower torsion box for the gantry and will next be gluing on the two skins prior to painting.

Thats it for now.

David

David Da Costa
12-22-2006, 11:27 AM
The x-axis base construction is now complete so next job on that is to paint it.

The lower torsion box for the gantry is also complete and yesterday I got the paint primer on and today I hope to get the top coat on then to assemble it onto the gantry.

David Da Costa
12-23-2006, 04:14 PM
The lower torsion box for the gantry is now complete and assembled onto the gantry as you can see in the picture.

Today I have been priming the x-axis base and will hope to have it fully painted next week ready for final assembly.

Have a great holiday everyone.

David

tajord
12-23-2006, 05:42 PM
man david, you got everything looking so neat & clean, though i've seen joe's machine b4, i can't wait to see your finish product.

Keep up the good work.

Robert M
12-24-2006, 08:00 AM
Nice work David.
Thanks for sharing.
All the best for this seasons holidays.
Robert M

ccsparky
12-24-2006, 09:26 AM
The lower torsion box for the gantry is now complete and assembled onto the gantry as you can see in the picture.

Today I have been priming the x-axis base and will hope to have it fully painted next week ready for final assembly.

Have a great holiday everyone.

David


David, that's is some excellent work! I really like the use of the igus cable!
How much do you need for the complete project?

Merry Christmas to you and all.

:)

David Da Costa
12-24-2006, 07:12 PM
Thanks ccsparky.

I used about 24" of igus for the z axis and about 34" for the y. Both were different sizes that I got as a job lot of ebay.

Still need to get some for the x-axis.

David

joecnc2006
12-24-2006, 09:12 PM
David very nice work, you are starting to make my machine look bad... lol

seriously, i love your build. and your website, look forward to other modifications you will be doing.

Joe

David Da Costa
12-24-2006, 10:47 PM
Well thank you for the compliment Joe!

I actually got the topcoat on the x-axis base today and then before I new it I had the pipes and gantry on the base and it moves nice and smooth.

I will take some pictures after tomorrow and post.

Next to get the x-axis motor etc on and then it's time for a new video.

All the best

David

bp092
12-26-2006, 06:11 PM
David nice cable carriers. Does the seller you got them from sell a lot of them? Have their ID? I'm thinking of going that route as well to keep everything out of the way of the machine.

David Da Costa
12-26-2006, 06:23 PM
I actually got these from K2 who had an ebay auction.

I just won another 58" long one that I required for the x axis. see here http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150070868517

Glad to see you got your kit delivered and look forward to following your progress.

David

bp092
12-26-2006, 10:30 PM
Thanks, got two of the torsion boxes done and the z carriage tonight. Was using a crown stapler and titebond but ended up with just glue and clamps. The half inch is too thin for fasteners and screws, and I was being lazy just trying to tack it together. If it was plywood it would be no problem whatsoever. I also got a little overzellous and put together the smaller torsion boxes without priming the insides which will be hard to reach now. I suppose I will just rip out the spray gun and spray them up, but it shouldn't be a huge issue. I like how joes parts just kind of flow together though, you almost don't need a manual for other than the mechanical parts and what to do first. Going to finish more tomorrow but save the trickier stuff for the weekend when I'm more rested. David, can we expect another video soon?

Netjams
12-26-2006, 10:42 PM
Wow.. Ebay is too cool for parts

This looks like a good part for some cnc

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150071624439&ssPageName=MERC_VIC_RCRX_BID_IT&refitem=150070868517&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&usedrule1=CrossSell_LogicX&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget


Sorry I got off the subject..he he

David your machine is looking HOT! :D

bp092
12-26-2006, 11:14 PM
wow now after seeing davids thread again I realized I made my first mistake, putting the 5/16 nuts in the carriage on the outside instead of flipping it over to put it on the inside.. oops.. man I was tired today, need to save this stuff for the weekend lol

joecnc2006
12-27-2006, 12:21 AM
wow now after seeing davids thread again I realized I made my first mistake, putting the 5/16 nuts in the carriage on the outside instead of flipping it over to put it on the inside.. oops.. man I was tired today, need to save this stuff for the weekend lol

I sugested to David how to correct his problem, you may ask him for the exact thing he did to make it easier.

joe

DougO
12-27-2006, 02:45 AM
So you are the one that outbid me on the carriers.. Just kidding, I didn't bid. I will probably start trying to bid on some. Is this the correct size we need? Looking forward to your next video. Should be close.

David Da Costa
12-27-2006, 10:06 AM
DougO I was not to concerned about the size of the carriers other than going for the smallest dimensions. In fact all three carriers on the machine are different.

bp092, Sorry to hear about your mistake, I guess we all have to make at least one (mine required me to destroy two of the cross members on the x-axis base)

Not sure what you are going to do about yours as your really need the nut cutouts on the inside for the adjustment of the y-axis bearings.

The problem that I had with this piece that Joe referred to was that the 5/16 nuts would not fit into the cutouts so I took a drill slightly less than the width from point to point of the nut and made the cutout bigger (ah yes you could do the same by making new holes on the inside) and then I put the nut on a 5/16 bolt with the bolt going through the hole and acting as a guide and then with a mallet forced the nuts into the hole.

The secret here I think was having the bolt acting as a guide to ensure the nut is centered and straight.

David Da Costa
12-27-2006, 01:46 PM
Well my router is now in the home stretch just requiring limit/ home switches, adding a cable carrier to the x-axis and any final adjustments.

So here are a couple of picture of the almost complete machine.

I have to say that I have really enjoyed building this and in a large part I think that has to be down to Joe's excellent design and the accuracy and quality of his kit - Thank you Joe.

There will be a video to follow as soon as I have hooked everything up and had time to shoot it.

David

tajord
12-27-2006, 01:57 PM
it looks so "clean", even the dust extractor is clean, "looks new actually", dave, you sure you're gonna use that thing.

Great job:banana: :banana:

joecnc2006
12-27-2006, 02:02 PM
Wow, very nice and sharp machine, i like the white, the HDPE blends right into it.

look forward to the video and your opinion on workings of the machine.

Joe

Netjams
12-27-2006, 02:12 PM
Don't use it!

It will fet dirty...lol

David Da Costa
12-27-2006, 03:06 PM
No I don't won't to use it, thinking of putting it in the living room as a piece of modern art ;)

I am now in the process of tuning the machine up. I have replaced Joe's HDPE Lovejoy spiders with the rubber ones I bought with the Lovejoy couplers as they are more flexible and the machine works quieter with them.

So far I have got the x-axis up to about 45ipm, above that it tends to stall at the moment. The Y-axis runs nice at about 70ipm but will stall at that speed near the far ends of the axis. I am currently replacing the lovejoy spider on the z-axis and will test it again but need to lock the acme nuts on the bottom using Joes recent suggestion as you cannot get to the first nut as it is recessed inside the carriage.

I also need to finish adjusting the bearing assemblies as well which I am sure I will have to do periodically anyway.

Any suggestions on tuning procedure gratefully received (for instance how to set/ determine the correct amount of pre-load on the lead screws).

I need to extend the motor cables as they are not long enough in addition to deciding where and how to mount the limit/ home switches.

joecnc2006
12-27-2006, 03:14 PM
What lubricant are you using?

I use Lithium grease from lowes and in addition to that i periodically spray it with silicone spray also from lowes.

On the Axis, makes sure the anti-backlash nut is just barely snug, it is just enough to make sure it does not move, but the nuts fit the rod nicely.

Joe

David Da Costa
12-27-2006, 03:29 PM
No lubricant yet, but I have Super Lube which is a synthetic grease with PTFE in it that I use on my Sherline's so I will try that now.

Thanks for the tip on the anti-backlash nut.

How tight should I make the acme nuts against the bearings on each axis before I lock them off?

Thanks

joecnc2006
12-27-2006, 03:34 PM
No lubricant yet, but I have Super Lube which is a synthetic grease with PTFE in it that I use on my Sherline's so I will try that now.

Thanks for the tip on the anti-backlash nut.

How tight should I make the acme nuts against the bearings on each axis before I lock them off?

Thanks

I would hand tight them, then do a 1/2 turn holding the leadscrew, then lock them down. should be more than enough.

bp092
12-27-2006, 04:49 PM
Maybe I'm looking at this wrong but wouldn't the nuts be more rigidly placed on the outside than the inside? Putting the bolt in from the outside would push the nut down, no matter how snug its in the mdf, and I feel it could come out easier on the inside than on the outside since it will be pushing against the mdf. Whereas the inside the nuts would be pushing against nothing and could come out. Then again I could be looking at this all wrong. If I'm right I will leave it, if I'm wrong it's not an issue, I can fill the outside ones and drill the insides with a right angle drill and tap them in snug. Anyhow, off to home depot for some supplies. But first to check out the new stuff you posted in your next post.. :)

DougO I was not to concerned about the size of the carriers other than going for the smallest dimensions. In fact all three carriers on the machine are different.

bp092, Sorry to hear about your mistake, I guess we all have to make at least one (mine required me to destroy two of the cross members on the x-axis base)

Not sure what you are going to do about yours as your really need the nut cutouts on the inside for the adjustment of the y-axis bearings.

The problem that I had with this piece that Joe referred to was that the 5/16 nuts would not fit into the cutouts so I took a drill slightly less than the width from point to point of the nut and made the cutout bigger (ah yes you could do the same by making new holes on the inside) and then I put the nut on a 5/16 bolt with the bolt going through the hole and acting as a guide and then with a mallet forced the nuts into the hole.

The secret here I think was having the bolt acting as a guide to ensure the nut is centered and straight.

joecnc2006
12-27-2006, 05:19 PM
The nuts need to be on the inside because when you put pressure on the bearing block there would be nothing stopping the nut from popping out, with them on the inside when you tighten the bolt the presure will be on the bearing block and against the inside of the MDF.

gtschance
12-27-2006, 06:13 PM
Great work David! and... great work Joe!

If you look at posts from my username in this sub forum you will see my progress up to last week. The picture of the kit as assembled was taken in my garage. Looks a little dingy but it is truely bright white just as yours.

I have since mounted lead screws, acme double locking nuts, lovejoys and the backlash assemblies. I have only made up one motor cable for the Xylotex setup I have so I have alternated mounting one motor on each axis to begin dialing it in. I have not attempted any cutting yet.

I started with the X axis and found the following (not saying it is right):

Finger tight on the end acme double lock nuts. Any tighter and I get much worse vibration.

The backlash adjustment is HIGHLY couped to vibration. My first shot at it with the backlash nuts spread fairly wide led to extreme lead screw whip at anything over 60 IPM. With near zero pressure, it reduced it only a little. I pulled the lead screw and started with a narrow gap (maybe 1/4 inch) and the vibration dramatically reduced. I can get it to move at 75 to 80 IPM without any great racket. I am to the point where there is only one spot in the travel where there is resonance/bad vibration (near 30 to 36 inches). I will attempt higher with adjustments but only to get as close to balance as possible. I contemplate running a little slower.

I also found the mounting of the motor highly influenced vibration. When I left a little gap axially on the lovejoy (motor further from the end of the lead screw), vibration was significantly reduced. I am using standard black rubber lovejoy spiders.

I moved on to the Y and got it dialed in and capable of 100 IPM and on Z I am smooth all the way to 120 IPM.

I have some cable chain due in the next couple of days so I will wait until then to make up the rest of my cables.

I am loving this....

Regards,
George

bp092
12-27-2006, 06:37 PM
The nuts need to be on the inside because when you put pressure on the bearing block there would be nothing stopping the nut from popping out, with them on the inside when you tighten the bolt the presure will be on the bearing block and against the inside of the MDF.


Oh right on, I wasn't thinking about it right but was on that sort of thinking, just backwards. Oh well, easy fix for me, no worries :rainfro:. Thanks for the clarification Joe. :)

David Da Costa
12-27-2006, 10:29 PM
George good info - thanks

I spent today tuning and adjusting and the y and z axis are running great. Still getting some vibration / stalling on the x at 60+ ipm, but will try some of your suggestions tomorrow.

I did air cut some large vcarved words this afternoon and the machine was singing - very impressed.

Tomorrow along with further adjustments to the x axis I shall start work on extending the motor cables (the ones in the kit from xylotex are to short) and also mounting the limit/home switchs.

bp092 - glad you figured it out ;)

David

ccsparky
12-28-2006, 01:17 PM
David,

That looks absolutely fantastic, you've done an excellent job with your kit! :)

How's your table's stability with the machine running?

Are you going to lengthen the cables or add extensions?

I've done some minor things with mine with hopes of having this weekend completely free to work on it.

David Da Costa
12-28-2006, 01:30 PM
George, I just took apart the anti backlash on the x-axis (felt like I was working under a car ;) ), and I realized that I had used 2" bolts which protruded about 1/2 beyond the hdpe and that was the closest the anti-backlash adjuster could be. So I replaced them with 1.5" bolts (just enough thread to hold not secure) and then set the anti--backlash about 1/4" away with the adjuster bolts just cinched down finger tight. I also only tightened the end acme bolt finger tight and then locked it down. The x axis now runs significantly better, both without vibration and without motor stalls at 80ipm - Thanks for the tip.

ccsparky - thanks. The table stability is not bad at all, there is some movement but nothing to worry about. If it does prove to be an issue I will just bolt some aluminum stretchers to the aluminum legs which should add a lot of stability.

I am going to splice in some more cable (solder and heat shrink). I only have 22 AWG and the existing cable (except for that coming from the motor) is 18 AWG but I don't think that should make to much of a difference (should it?).

I also want to finalize the position of the limit/ home switches today and start attaching them.

Look forward to seeing some more pic of your progress.


David

gtschance
12-28-2006, 02:20 PM
David,

I found the source of my X axis vibration. Turns out on my build the bearing block on the motor end in relation to the end panel was not aligned properly axially. While everything looks and measures perfect, it was indeed the source. I shimmed the "low" corner with 4 thickness business card (found by trial and error) between the block and the end plate. While it shakes a little, I can run at 100 IPM in testing. Does not take much to cause it to stop at that speed - bumping the table hard will do it (little torque at that RPM from my steppers). I have been testing it at 85 IPM running back and forth in various patterns for a couple of hours and it has not missed any steps even with bumping the table. I think I am satisfied at 85.

By the way, no combination of adjusting the tension rods on the table helped the vibration.

George

David Da Costa
12-28-2006, 08:12 PM
Well the limit/ home switches are now on the x-axis and work perfectly.

I have spent a lot of time on the y-axis today as it was resonating at low rpm so I have taken it apart 3 times!!! However on the third time I happen to run the motor off the machine and noticed that it was vibrating/ stuttering and on full acceleration the shaft would lock up although the sound of the motor running would continue, so it would seem that the motor itself is the source of my problem with resonation.

I have ordered a new motor from Xyoltex and I suspect the problem may have been caused by me accidentally tripping over the cable yesterday and disconnecting the plug?

The other thing I have noticed with the y-axis is the leadscrew is about 1/4" to high to line up "naturally" with the bearing on the opposite end to the motor. I have tried playing around with the y-axis bearing assembly adjusters but if I adjust them to get the lead screw in line with the bearing the lower bearing are not touching the gas pipe and as soon as I adjust to get them to touch, the leadscrew does not line up.

Not sure how much of an issue this is as with minimal effort I can get the leadscrew into the bearing. I could make another end bearing housing with the bearing set 1/4" higher but not sure it is necessary.

Any ideas / suggestions gratefully received.

David

joecnc2006
12-28-2006, 09:15 PM
the 1/4" offset on the y-axis is puzzeling to me, i do not have that problem or see it before, the adjusters can help center the ani-backlash nut but not from end to end, if it caused a problem, then i would cut another bearing block.

On the motors did you try to switch the y and z axis motors, because the z axis should have no problem.

joe

David Da Costa
12-28-2006, 10:00 PM
Well, I just switched the z and y motors and its the same. So I tried each motor disconnected from the machine and they all exhibit the same behavior, so now I am wondering whether I even have a problem with the motors.

When disconnected from the machine all the axis motors stall at about 80 ipm so I am wondering whether when the motors don't have a load they will always stall. When I have the x axis motor connected to the machine it moves the axis at 80ipm with no stalls, disconnected it stalls at 80ipm.

Does that make sense?

joecnc2006
12-28-2006, 10:08 PM
Well, I just switched the z and y motors and its the same. So I tried each motor disconnected from the machine and they all exhibit the same behavior, so now I am wondering whether I even have a problem with the motors.

When disconnected from the machine all the axis motors stall at about 80 ipm so I am wondering whether when the motors don't have a load they will always stall. When I have the x axis motor connected to the machine it moves the axis at 80ipm with no stalls, disconnected it stalls at 80ipm.

Does that make sense?

yes make perfect sence becasue i have 425oz motors, now and when i have them installed they work fine, but in my hand they act up.

place it on the table and press down with hand and you will see they work fine, its like a mounting stabilization thing is all i can guess.

David Da Costa
12-28-2006, 10:14 PM
Thanks Joe, I thought I was loosing it for a minute :)

Just out of interest why did you increase the size of your motors?

What did you do about the mounting and did you change the leadscrew?

David

joecnc2006
12-28-2006, 10:24 PM
Thanks Joe, I thought I was loosing it for a minute :)

Just out of interest why did you increase the size of your motors?

What did you do about the mounting and did you change the leadscrew?

David

Oh no i still have the HobbyCNC Kit with their 200oz. motors on the CNC Model 2006. I have other motors and controllor boards i put together for another (Top Secret) Project I am working on ;). I do not want to be bombarded with questions and have alot of messages about it, it is 3/4 done and still toying with different ways to improve it.

joe

David Da Costa
12-29-2006, 05:52 PM
So after a nights rest I reviewed the y-axis again today (after realizing there is nothing wrong with the motor).

I removed the anti-backlash assembly all together on the carriage and determined that the bearings at either end were in alignment but the carriage is about 1/8" to high and if I adjust the bearing assembly on the carriage to center it then the lower bearings no longer touch the gas pipe. Not sure why this has happened, but it could be due to some variances in the aluminum angle and the way it is seated in the slots of the carriage.

Anyway I did not feel like taking the hole machine to bits to shim the bearings so I figured the simples thing was to make a new anti-backlash plate (just the piece that bolts to the carriage) with the hole for the acme nut set 1/8" lower. I only had 1/2" HDPE so I used that and my small cnc router to make one.

It fits perfectly and cures the problem.

Now to finish wiring up the stop/ homing switches for the y-axis.

David

joecnc2006
12-29-2006, 06:04 PM
I'm glad you were able to rectify the problem, is the Z-Axis carriage 100% square? a quick check would be to measure the bottom of the left side to the table, then the right and compare. But at this point since you have a work around, it is a mute point.

I'm looking forward to more pictures and video's :), you do an excillent job on those as well as the machine.

Joe

David Da Costa
12-29-2006, 06:09 PM
Just measured it and yes exactly the same both sides.

More pictures and video to come don't worry. At the moment progress is a bit slow as I am adjusting each axis then adding the limit switches and I am slow at wiring ;) I just got my igus cable carrier for the x axis today (ebay) so I am deciding where and how I want to attach it.

Netjams
12-29-2006, 07:55 PM
After reading about the problems you guys had with the ACME bolts and nuts, I'm sure glad I went with ball screws.. But I have to say the price sure hurt.

David Da Costa
12-29-2006, 07:59 PM
Netjams, not sure what problems you are referring too. I would say that the acme bolts and nuts are working quite well.

David

joecnc2006
12-29-2006, 08:07 PM
Netjam, it is just dialing in the machine, i have been using the acme screw and same nuts for over a year now with no problems. and will be very inexpensive if and when i need to replace them, at that point i might use a two start to increase tourqe and speed, as well as reduce any whipping at all.

gtschance
12-30-2006, 03:15 AM
Hi David (and Joe),

I previously posted about a vibration problem on my X axis. I wound up using 4 layers of business card cut down for one corner that needed shimming. It was a long trial and error process. It has been bugging me that shimming was required. I decided to try and find out what the culprit is.

I measured thicknesses, square, level, etc. on the major assembly. Best I can tell, all is perfect. I already knew I had "wobble/run-out" on my X lead screw.

I removed both ends X bearing plates and did some detailed measurements on my reference granite block, height guage and dial indicators. I found that the bearing seat on the motor end was considerably out (> .020). I quadruple checked and pulled all the other bearing blocks just to check/compare. I checked the bearings as well and did multiple re-seat rotations all delivering the same results on X. My Z blocks are near perfect while the Y blocks (both) were moderately out. I had not noticed much Y vibration but I was not able to consistently drive it beyond 100 IPM in testing as the motor would just stop spinning above same. I was able to run my Z rapids [with the router mounted] all the way to the limits of my CPU (running Mach3) maximum step count (about 128 IPM). So there is some consistency with the measurement results. While I have no intention of trying to run that fast, I do want to dial out as much vibration as possible.

While I realize UHMW plastic is not generally designed as a pressure bearing component, I decided to work on truing the seating surfaces. I very carefully scraped the "high side" bearing seats on the X and Y and they are now near perfect (within the limits of my skill to measure). I have not yet remounted them (too late now).

I will report results but am hopeful I have found (and corrected) the true issue.

George

David Da Costa
12-30-2006, 11:32 AM
Interesting George, I look forward to the results.

It funny as my x-axis is the quietest and smooth running of all my axis which surprised me.

David Da Costa
12-30-2006, 06:58 PM
Okay just so you all don't think I am not doing anything ;), I thought I better post some pictures.

Today I got the igus cable carrier on the x-axis so that I can continue with the wiring for the limit switches and motors.

The first picture shows the igus carrier with the carriage at the nearest end of the x axis, the second picture shows it at the other end.

The third and fourth pictures show close ups of the mount on the gantry. I made a platform out of hdpe and drilled two holes in the side, one at 1/4" so that it slips over one of the bolts that sticks out that holds the lower bearing assembly in place and the other hole I threaded at put screwed in a piece of 1/4-20 threaded rod and then locked it/ spaced it with a nut and a couple of washers, then pushed it through the hole that was already in the gantry but unused on the left side.

The last picture shows the rear platform attached to the end support of the x-axis torsion box, again made out of hdpe.

David

bp092
12-30-2006, 07:21 PM
Looks awesome David! I'm about to sand a little bit and prime some of the stuff that has been assembled and take pics for my build log. Did you brush that paint on or was that all spray on primer? Either way it looks really clean and nice, I'm diggin it. Can't wait to see the dust flyin' on your machine. Cable carriers must keep things all tidy, was smart to add them in. Have you found that all of the cables and wires from xylo's kit are long enough to run to the longest parts of the machine without extending them? The router I would imagine would have a long power cord as most do. Haven't ordered it yet, will when I get more of the machine built.

David Da Costa
12-30-2006, 07:30 PM
It was all spray cans - lots of them :) I used Rust-oleum painters touch sandable primer and put on between 2 - 3 coats, sanded the applied 2 -3 coats of Rust-oleum painter touch semi-gloss. I have to say I am pretty happy with the finish and it seems pretty tough and very wipeable (been leaving greasy fingerprints everywhere ;) ).

No, the Xylotex cables are nowhere near long enough and I need to graft in quite a few feet of extra, but not a big deal.

Again with the router cable it is nowhere long enough and infact you can see it dangling down the side of the gantry after its been through the two igus cable carriers on the gantry and I will need to add about 6' more to allow it to go through the x-axis igus. Because the igus on the x is the non opening kind I have opted to cut the plug off the router and thread a power cord with just pig tails on through the igus then hard wire it to the router cable.

David Da Costa
12-30-2006, 07:37 PM
I have a quesiton for you guys (especially those with Xylotex) what microstepping step level do you have your controller set to (full, half, quarter or eighth)?

Thanks

David

joecnc2006
12-30-2006, 07:54 PM
i have used 1/2 and 1/4 did not see any difference, but i would think the 1/4 is better resolution.

bp092
12-30-2006, 08:40 PM
Nice david, I'm using the same stuff, rustoleum makes really good products imo. I just put a coat on some stuff. I'm sort of electronically challenged though so extending those cables might be interesting.. I know it ain't rocket science but then again I'm always willing to try anything new. But when I get there I get there, right now trying to still get everything built before I worry about the mechanics of the machine. By the way, david do you have a metal saw, how did you end up cutting those solid rods up for the carriage? I'm thinking of just sucking it up and buying a milwaukee cutt off saw (the red ones.)

David Da Costa
12-30-2006, 08:48 PM
I have a 7" $20 cut-off saw that does the trick.

bp092
12-30-2006, 08:51 PM
Oh yeah? :D well the link hasn't loaded yet, where could I find such a steal?

joecnc2006
12-30-2006, 09:18 PM
I used a cutoff, blade from HD for 5.00 and put it on my circular saw. works really well, i use it for alumn and metal, and also the leadscrews.

bp092
12-30-2006, 09:20 PM
lol, well I know where I will be tomorrow morning Joe. Thanks for the tip.

ccsparky
12-30-2006, 09:23 PM
I'm going the cut off saw route as that's what I have available and had not thought about the cut off blade.

Yep excellent tip, I'll be there tomorrow too! Thanks guys!!

David, WOW, that pretty much sums up your build!

DougO
12-30-2006, 10:59 PM
How much longer before we see some videos of the machine at work? Should be getting very close.

David Da Costa
12-31-2006, 01:16 AM
Yes I am close. Need to spend a day or so on wiring up the limit switches, extending motor cables and router cable then deciding on best clamps for holding the sacrificial board to the table - then video so hopefully some time next week.

David

Netjams
12-31-2006, 09:05 AM
This is a work of art!

http://cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=28268&d=1167522634

David Da Costa
12-31-2006, 11:13 AM
Why thank you Netjams, there has been some discussion about not getting it dirty and instead putting it in my living room as a piece of modern art, but for some reason my wife is not to keen on the idea ;)

David Da Costa
12-31-2006, 12:17 PM
What method are you guys using/ intending to use to attach the sacrificial board to the x-axis base?

ccsparky
12-31-2006, 12:27 PM
What method are you guys using/ intending to use to attach the sacrificial board to the x-axis base?

Following a suggestion from Joe in his log I purchased some t-slot rail.

I'm planning on mounting a piece of 3/4" (or 1/2") mdf on top of the deck. Bolt it to the existing 1/4" with count sunk holes in the 3/4". Then mount the t-rails on top of that. Use cut pieces of 3/4" to fit in between the t-rails. The rails are 1/2" so I'll have to make sure when cutting I don't go deep enough to hit the rails.

I think I might make the 3/4" about two inches wider so it extends out about an inch wider than the 1/4". This give an inch over hang on each side and I can then clamp or through bolt each of the 3/4" cut pieces to keep them from moving.

Please let me know if this is not a good idea or if you can think of a better approach.

David Da Costa
12-31-2006, 12:33 PM
That sounds similar to what I was thinking. I know Joe made clamps to utilize the holes on the side of the x-axis base for clamping.

ccsparky
12-31-2006, 12:40 PM
That sounds similar to what I was thinking. I know Joe made clamps to utilize the holes on the side of the x-axis base for clamping.

I could do that and then not have to have the 1" over hang on each side. Will look into his clamps.

Question: Would two sided tape be good to hold the sacrificial pieces in place given they will also be in between the t-rails? I would only then need to keep the pieces from sliding outward.

Off to HD to pick up a cut off blade and more paint.

David Da Costa
12-31-2006, 07:44 PM
Well today I got the limit/ home switches installed and working on the y-axis.

I have also been running repetitive test cycles on the y-axis and making fine adjustment. I think I have it done now.

Tomorrow I will start work on final dial in for the z-axis and adding the limit switches.

I ordered morex connectors so that I can extend the motor cables properly rather than doing a botch job ;)

Happy new year everyone.

David

bp092
12-31-2006, 08:27 PM
Sounds good David, any idea on how you're going to extend the router power cable? I'm sure it's simple but I'm kind of a newbie to wiring and electronics.

David Da Costa
12-31-2006, 08:33 PM
I am simply going to cut the plug of the router then solder and insulate the extension on. I am kind of forced to do it this way as my Igus cable carrier on the x axis is the non opening kind, in other words you have to thread the cables through it and it is not big enough to thread a plug through it.

Like you electronics/ wiring is not one of my strong point either.

bp092
12-31-2006, 08:36 PM
I'm not that adventurous, I'm thinking a snug extension cord might work before I get involved with cable carriers. Is that the only reason it won't work, because of the igus ones? Thanks for the info.

David Da Costa
12-31-2006, 08:46 PM
Yes. My other 2 igus carriers are the opening kind so it would not have been a problem.

ccsparky
01-01-2007, 09:29 AM
Can you replace the router cord with a longer one? I haven't opened my router up but it might just have either spade or ring connectors.

Happy New Year to you also!

David Da Costa
01-02-2007, 01:35 PM
Yesterday I made a clamp for the router. It is cut from 1/2" HDPE and I used some of the left over 1/4-20 threaded rod for the clamp thread which I screwed into the clamp base (after cutting a deep thread).

The clamp works great and I am cutting a bunch more at the moment.

David Da Costa
01-02-2007, 04:22 PM
Some have you have asked about the cut-off saw I used to cut the metal.

This is it http://wholesale.homier.com/detail.asp?SessionKey=0&dpt=9&cat=115&sku=02734

Works pretty well for $20

David Da Costa
01-02-2007, 09:34 PM
I thought that some of you would like to see a video of my IMSRV servo router cutting the clamps I made for my large cnc router.

To see the video got to web.mac.com/dacostad (http://web.mac.com/dacostad) and choose "cutting clamps" from the menu at the top.

David

bp092
01-02-2007, 10:09 PM
That's a neat little router David, didn't know you had that. How much does that HDPE go for? What did you do the tabs with? Just cut them off after?

David Da Costa
01-02-2007, 10:53 PM
Hi bp092, yes it a nicely made router that uses servos and desckcn, It can move at up to 192ipm but never run it now where near that.

I just use a chisel to cut the tabs off and the come off like butter.

I drew them using vectric Vcarve pro

joecnc2006
01-02-2007, 11:49 PM
David very mice looking clamp nuts, i was thinking about a small machine, but the model 2006 cuts them good, so it keeps pushing off that project :),

How do you like the clamps? i think i will try to make some out of 1/2" HDPE also. just for the height being 1/4" less.

I use a sharp utility knife to cut my tabs.


For those who wat to try them out of HDPE you can also use a cutting board from walmart/Lowes/HD because thats what cutting boards are made of.

Also, David i saw your dust collector, and was thinking that something like that may be better for the Model 2006.

Thats what i like about people making the same machine, we have more minds to improve on a product :D.

Joe

David Da Costa
01-02-2007, 11:56 PM
The clamps work great. If you add the threaded rod to the sides of the x-axis you need to make sure that you allow for the fact that on the left side the threaded rod is nearer to the table than the other side so the clamps for that side at least cannot be more than 1/2 thick.

Joe I assume you are referring to the dust collector on the small router. Yes it does not move with the z-axis which is a lot better. We need to come up with something similar for your design.

joecnc2006
01-03-2007, 12:19 AM
Yes, the one on your smaller router. I was already thinking because my machine has two threaded rods running from one gantry side to the other I could make something that clamps to that and runs benieth and along with the Z Axis, and being about 1" or so above the stock and use some clear this plastic material as a skirt (similar to the refrigeration curtains), However I do not think this will work if using the JLT tool changer.

Any Brain storming?

David Da Costa
01-04-2007, 01:06 PM
Well I think it would be nice if the dust collector could be connected to the carriage itself and hinge free with an adjustable bottom stop to set the bottom of the brushes so that they just touch the top of the work piece.

David Da Costa
01-04-2007, 01:16 PM
All the limit/ home switches are now installed and connected and working.

The first picture show the motor end of the x axis. There is adjustable 1/4-20 threaded rod on the HDPE adjustable bearing box on the gantry that makes contact with the switch. The same on the other end.

The second picture shows the y-axis (opposite end to the motor) again using threaded rod which allows me to adjust where the limit is.

Finally the last picture shows the top of the Z-Axis. this time I am not using threaded rod but just using the top of the (HDPE) z-axis slide to make contact. The bottom is the same thing.

Today I am working on supports for the dust extractor hose to allow it to remain attached and move easily with the gantry.

Still waiting for molex plugs and cables to extend motor cables and router cables, but they should be here on Friday.

May get to test cut on Saturday, but otherwise it's going to be towards the end of next week as I am in San Francisco next week at MacWorld

David Da Costa
01-04-2007, 03:51 PM
So here is the first support for the hose.

joecnc2006
01-04-2007, 04:39 PM
So here is the first support for the hose.


That looks nice..... very functional.

David Da Costa
01-04-2007, 06:23 PM
This is the second clamp which goes on the back of the y-axis carriage using the existing top 1/4-20 threaded rod.

I will probably make one more clamp to go on the back of the x-axis end support.

bd007
01-04-2007, 06:52 PM
All the limit/ home switches are now installed and connected and working.

The first picture show the motor end of the x axis. There is adjustable 1/4-20 threaded rod on the HDPE adjustable bearing box on the gantry that makes contact with the switch. The same on the other end.

The second picture shows the y-axis (opposite end to the motor) again using threaded rod which allows me to adjust where the limit is.

Finally the last picture shows the top of the Z-Axis. this time I am not using threaded rod but just using the top of the (HDPE) z-axis slide to make contact. The bottom is the same thing.

Today I am working on supports for the dust extractor hose to allow it to remain attached and move easily with the gantry.

Still waiting for molex plugs and cables to extend motor cables and router cables, but they should be here on Friday.

May get to test cut on Saturday, but otherwise it's going to be towards the end of next week as I am in San Francisco next week at MacWorld

I am in the process of hooking up limit switches on my Lionclaw clone. How fast do you think the axis will stop when it hits the switch. On the y-axis is there a possibility that threaded rod can crush the switch?

Thanks
Dave

David Da Costa
01-04-2007, 06:58 PM
Dave it is unlikely unless something is set wrong in Mach 3. I have bent the levers on some of the switches a couple of times by not moving the axis of the switches in the right direction :( , but that is my fault.

The safe thing to do in Mach 3 is set up soft limits (assuming you have setup the switches for homing too) which are slightly withing the physical limits then Mach 3 will slow down as it approaches the soft limits and stop.

The only other option would be to set up optical limit switches which are also more accurate, but probably overkill for this machine.

The other thing to remember is that the switches are on a couple of dollars and easy to replace.

Hope that helps


David

David Da Costa
01-04-2007, 07:02 PM
Just a reminder to everyone that in addition to this "plog" I am maintaining a seperate website which contains all my images plus associated narrative. Of course the site also has the videos I have made so far.

The URL is http://web.mac.com/dacostad

joecnc2006
01-04-2007, 07:30 PM
This is the second clamp which goes on the back of the y-axis carriage using the existing top 1/4-20 threaded rod.

I will probably make one more clamp to go on the back of the x-axis end support.

David, your starting to make me look bad, because your machine looks very nice..... LOL seriously it looks really good.

Joe

bp092
01-04-2007, 07:41 PM
Joe's right, but this build is starting to really motivate me to push push push and finish. lol, I'm like, well damn, he's got me beat there. I don't know, I just can't find the time during the week sometimes or the energy. I get home and my muscles ache so much, the TV just sounds more promising heh. But seriously David your machine is A+ top notch; you really set a precedent for the rest of us to compete with. I like your ingenuity in making tiny modifications and add-ons to Joe’s existing router. It almost starts a user group for the build where we can all eventually share ideas on how to improve as we get the dust flying. Joe got us started, but it's up to all the end users to figure out how to innovate the design even further (if it's possible, Joe thought of almost everything). Do you work for Apple David? :rainfro:

David Da Costa
01-04-2007, 07:52 PM
I could never make you look bad, I made a couple of clamps; you designed the machine!!!!! :)

David Da Costa
01-04-2007, 07:58 PM
Thanks bp092!

Thats the great thing about this group, we can all learn from each others, some large contributions (Joe!) some small but they all improve the whole.

No I don't work for Apple just love the company and products!

ccsparky
01-04-2007, 09:56 PM
They are all great builds in their own way, but I must say once again, hat's off to you David. You have some really creative ideas and it's so much fun to see what you'll have in store for us next! :)
Can't wait so see your machine in action!

David Da Costa
01-05-2007, 09:10 PM
I got the third dust hose bracket done and mounted yesterday (I'll post a pic tomorrow) and made the extension cables for the motors and router. These are now all tidied away in the igus cable carriers and I started 3 axis testing this afternoon.

The x-axis is unbelievably quiet and smooth running, I am still not totally happy with the y-axis, it still stalls occasionally and there is a lot of "resonation" at low speed. I have to believe that something is not running true still on this axis and will spend time tomorrow checking it. I have to believe that the y-axis should be able to run as quite and smooth as the x-axis.

The z-axis is not perfect either but that does not have to move far and also has to lift a fair weight.

I have all the axis set at 80 and 10 accel in mach 3.

David Da Costa
01-08-2007, 12:40 PM
I got the y-axis improved on Saturday and even went as far as to try some test cuts, but I my z-axis is stalling and I am missing steps occationally so I need to play around with it again to try to get it working better.

What motor tuning settings are people using that have a Joe router and using Mach 3?

You won't see any updates from me until the end of the week as I am out of town for a few days.

joecnc2006
01-08-2007, 01:36 PM
I use 80 and 15, what is your power supply?

David Da Costa
01-08-2007, 02:59 PM
24vdc/5.0a

joecnc2006
01-08-2007, 03:27 PM
24vdc/5.0a

i would say that is the bare min. to use.
I use 36v10a, i know one xylotex website he insist that the 5a is enough, but your machine runs a min of two motors at one, sometimes 3 if it is doing 2.5d so to speak, So i would think 3 motors at 3a each would be pulling 9amps, and two would be 6 amps, thats why i kinda don't agree with the 5a PSU, I have never run less that 10 amps on a cnc machine so i can not verify it.

Joe

David Da Costa
01-08-2007, 03:34 PM
Yes, I am beginning to wonder if my stalling motors is more to do with the psu and less to do with the mechanics of the machine.

I need to check on Xylotex egroup, but do you know if I can just get a more powerfull psu and adjust the vref or do I need to change controller to say a HobbyCNC?

joecnc2006
01-08-2007, 03:41 PM
you should be able to adjust the board to fit the motors and PSU's amps.
Just make sure not to exceed 35v and 2.5a thats what the board is rated for.

I went with the Hobbycnc board because rated up to 42v 3a.

bp092
01-08-2007, 06:37 PM
david, I'm making great headway and will post pics.. I'm wayyy too tired to work on it tonight so I want to use this time to order the xylotex kit and get a tower and components and possibly an LCD all online, maybe from newegg.. where did you get your limit switches and e-stops from again? and which of the multifunction cards did you buy from cnc4pc?

http://cnc4pc.com/Multifunction_CNC_Board.htm

or

http://cnc4pc.com/C11G_Multifunction_CNC_Board.htm

Lastly was there any other things you bought, IE cables online to connect the xylotex kit up to the multifunction card? I basically want to do exactly what you did and put it in the tower with everything else as long as it doesn't get too hot having all those boards together. I'm going to buy a really simple pc, not crappy but not a dual core either, just enough to run mach 3 smoothly. Time to break the bank again, but it will be worth it, I can't wait to get the electronics on this thing and hear those steppers humming. Oh and how long did it take to get your xylotex kit approx? thanks! Can't wait to see more pics/vids!

ger21
01-08-2007, 07:55 PM
I need to check on Xylotex egroup, but do you know if I can just get a more powerfull psu and adjust the vref or do I need to change controller to say a HobbyCNC?

You don't need to change the Vref with a higher current supply. Also, don't try to use a supply over 28V if you want the Xylotex to live long.

All things being equal, speed is proportional to voltage. So Joe's 36V should give him 50% more speed than the Xylotex's 24V.

David Da Costa
01-08-2007, 08:05 PM
bp092 I got the limit switches from CNC4PC along with the C11 (not C11G) board. The e-stop switch came from IMSRV (http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=16).

Other cables connectors I had hanging around.

Ger21, thanks for the infor, I am now thinking about getting the hobbyCNC kit to replace the xylotex as it seems that it may be better suited to Joe's machine.

bp092
01-08-2007, 10:18 PM
David, so you would advise against the xylotex now? Any specific reasons? Or should I stick with it? I like it because it's all complete for you and cuts out any soldering. But if you think the hobbycnc one is better let me know, would be good info.

David Da Costa
01-09-2007, 12:25 AM
Not sure yet bp092, I need to do some more research, but I am a bit concerned that the controller may not be rated high enough.

David Da Costa
01-09-2007, 05:38 PM
Does anyone know if the 269 oz.in stepper motors I got with my Xylotex kit will work with the HobyCNC board?

Thanks

David

joecnc2006
01-09-2007, 05:45 PM
Does anyone know if the 269 oz.in stepper motors I got with my Xylotex kit will work with the HobyCNC board?

Thanks

David

I believe those are 4 wire bi-polar drives, so no they will not work.

what i would do is get another power supply and try it out before switching electronics.

Do you have a couple of Comp. PSU's you can wire in series to get 24v 10-12amps? that way you can eliminate if it is an amp issue.

David Da Costa
01-09-2007, 05:53 PM
Thanks Joe, I will have to check what I have when I get home.

bp092
01-09-2007, 08:06 PM
David, have you talked to xylotex? It's their product, they should be able to help you with htis kind of stuff. And what do you mean but you don't think it is rated high enough? As in it isn't putting out enough power to push a machine like this? Haven't other people on here successfully used xylotex kits?

ger21
01-09-2007, 09:08 PM
You might want to consider changing leadscrews to a 1/2-8 2 start screw. The motor would spin at 40% of the speed it does using 1/2-10. Because steppers have more torque the slower they spin, you might find you can go faster with the same motors and drive. Joe bumped this thread that used this method.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23546

David Da Costa
01-11-2007, 11:31 AM
Thanks Gerry.

I am now back from SF MacWorld so before I do anything else I am going to check to see what voltage the power supply is set at and also what VRef the controller is set to. These were all preset by Xylotex as I bought their system ready kit.

David

David Da Costa
01-11-2007, 06:57 PM
Well I spent the day trying to solve the problem of missing steps/ stalling on the z axis. I stripped the z-axis down and am quite happy that it is running a smooth as possible.

I also checked the power supply and the vref on the xylotex board and the psu was set to 27.5v so I increased it to its max of 28.5v. The vref for all 3 axis was set at 3.3 so I increased that to the max of 3.6.

This made no noticeable difference. I played around with the motor tuning in mach 3 but was unable to solve the problem even with the speed and accel set very low. I even hooked up a more powerful PC and no difference.

The problem only seems to occur when moving the z axis up.

I am getting very close to ordering the hobbycnc kit as I am running out of ideas.

Does anyone with a "Joe router" actually have a xylotex setup running okay?

Joe if I order the HobbyCNC package should I get the transformer they recommend from Allied or should I get something else?

Feeling quite frustrated at the moment.

DougO
01-11-2007, 07:30 PM
This is not sounding good David. The Xylotex 269 is the kit I have. After installing the z carriage I thought that was going to be a lot of work for those little motors. And I haven't included the router yet. This is not a light machine.

Hope you enjoyed your trip.

Doug

David Da Costa
01-11-2007, 08:09 PM
Joe (or others) what do you think about using the xylotex 425 oz/in steppers instead of the 269's I have now. I am not to concerned about high end speed and would be quite happy at 60 ipm.

David

joecnc2006
01-11-2007, 08:16 PM
Well I spent the day trying to solve the problem of missing steps/ stalling on the z axis. I stripped the z-axis down and am quite happy that it is running a smooth as possible.

I also checked the power supply and the vref on the xylotex board and the psu was set to 27.5v so I increased it to its max of 28.5v. The vref for all 3 axis was set at 3.3 so I increased that to the max of 3.6.

This made no noticeable difference. I played around with the motor tuning in mach 3 but was unable to solve the problem even with the speed and accel set very low. I even hooked up a more powerful PC and no difference.

The problem only seems to occur when moving the z axis up.

I am getting very close to ordering the hobbycnc kit as I am running out of ideas.

Does anyone with a "Joe router" actually have a xylotex setup running okay?

Joe if I order the HobbyCNC package should I get the transformer they recommend from Allied or should I get something else?

Feeling quite frustrated at the moment.

Yes you need the 10amp transformer, I would 1st try to change the PSU to make sure it is not the amps.

When you jog does the z axis work fine by itself?

gtschance
01-11-2007, 08:26 PM
All,

I am using the Xylotex drive with 3 425 oz/in stepper motors on my Joe R2 machine. I have so far only cut air but am getting very close to having my setup permanently mounted on my garage work table storage lift mechanism (pictures forthcoming). So far, I am getting what appears to be reliable moves (no lost steps) from all 3 using some of the various "stress test" G-code and a few signs (from Vcarve) that I hope to cut for real soon.

The PC driving the setup is a Dell GX60 (1.8 GHz). I am using Mach3. I use a CandCNC Mini-IO in front of the Xylotex driver board.

In my case I have the Xylotex set to do 1/8 stepping but hear that 1/4 shoud be good enough. I have a Xylotex 24 V power supply and the settings were done by me using a Digital Volt Meter (that I trust). All three motors will do at least 80 IPM plus without issue. My problem axis remains X but I am getting close - my previous problem was inaccurate surfaces on my bearing blocks (bearing blocks for x were very bad, y moderately bad and z appeared perfect).

Today, just as a test, I put a temporary clamp that pulled on the bottom of my table end panels (spreading them further) and was able to drive x up to 100 IPM without vibration.

I can drive my Z (with the Hitachi router mounted) at 120 IPM without issue so far.

I stress however, I have NOT yet cut anything but air.

George

David Da Costa
01-11-2007, 08:28 PM
It works fine if you give it plenty of throttle, but if you move it slowly up (I am using a Shuttle express as a jog controller) you can get the motor to stall and also if you repeatedly move fast up and down it will eventually stall going up.

I think the main issue is when doing a rapid up (G0) at say 20 ipm it is missing steps causing it to then feed down lower than intended.

My test run is based on cutting one of the sides of the gantry and the first operation is to drill the holes and I have not yet got past this step as if ends up trying to drill the holes increasingly deeper because of it losing a few step each time on its rapid up. This is even at a motor setting speed of 30 and accel of 1.5 with pulse widths set to high numbers like 4.

David Da Costa
01-11-2007, 08:31 PM
That's interesting George. I loose steps cutting air! What volts do you have the power supply set to and also the vrefs?

It would seem that maybe I should get the 425's

joecnc2006
01-11-2007, 08:42 PM
Don't forget I am Using 200oz.in. motors with no problem, so the 269oz. should work. my power supply is 36v 10amp.

David I am pretty sure it is your PSU if you increase power you can push the motors more to work with the machine.

David Da Costa
01-11-2007, 08:48 PM
Can you recommend a power supply and source? I am not that good at electronics so if someone can point me in he direction of a higher rated supply that will work with the xylotex card I will be grateful.

Thanks

joecnc2006
01-11-2007, 09:12 PM
i'm trying to figure out your problem, plus looking for links for you, i have been looking for 20 mins now :)

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28390&highlight=computer+psu

Joe

David Da Costa
01-11-2007, 09:15 PM
Thanks Joe - much appreciated!!!

ccsparky
01-12-2007, 12:10 AM
David,

When I purchased my HobbyCNC kit I purchased two of the power supplies recommended by HobbyCNC. If you and Joe think it will work and you would like to try it let me know. I'm just over the mountain and it would probably get there by the first of next week if I send it out tomorrow.

I also have the Xylotex kit however I'm no where near set up to try it for you. It will be a while. Let me know.

gtschance
01-12-2007, 12:42 AM
David,

In response to your question about my voltages:

My chassis is open at the moment so I just measured.

The power supply is running at 26.82 VDC with the board powered, three stepper motors connected and the fan running (I have one 24 VDC, 92 mm fan vs. the tiny noisy one that came with the kit). As I am in the midst of my permanent installation activities, the PC is not hooked up now so I could not look at the PS during movement. I forgot to look at the PS voltage without any load to see if it changed.

My Vref is set at 3.36 for all three drives.

When I was testing several days ago, I ran at various speeds, both as a feed rate during my air cuts as well as just testing via command input where I had set max velocity at various points.

I checked at 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90 and 100. I would jog purposefully by issuing a G0 X?? Y?? Z?? to ensure all three axis moved.

I also experimented with some very slow acceleration and some very fast acceleration (1 thru about 15 as I recall).

During my time with the mis-alignment problems, I could easily stall the motors but rarely would they miss steps (they would run right or stop, nothing in between).

I only hope when I get everything back together it works as well as it did when I last tested!!

Regards,
George

David Da Costa
01-12-2007, 09:49 AM
Thanks George.

Thanks for your offer ccsparky, I'll let you know as soon as I hear from Joe.

joecnc2006
01-12-2007, 10:43 AM
Thanks George.

Thanks for your offer ccsparky, I'll let you know as soon as I hear from Joe.

David did you try or can you try the two computer PSu's wired together to give you 24v. min. and over 10 amps?

CCSparky, what is the amps of your PSU ?

I Still believe 5 amps in not enough to make it work properly.

One other thing, can you take the shuttle out of the equation and use keyboard arrows? and change jog rate, or press the tab key in mach to use the jog feature with the mouse.

David Da Costa
01-12-2007, 11:03 AM
Hi Joe,

Okay I think I might have to computer psu's so let me be clear before I blow myself up, I take a common and a +12v lead from each power supply and wire them together? and then connect those pairs of wire to the Xylotex board?

I'll check out the shuttle removed but I don't think that will make any difference as I get the problem running g-code.

joecnc2006
01-12-2007, 11:05 AM
Hi Joe,

Okay I think I might have to computer psu's so let me be clear before I blow myself up, I take a common and a +12v lead from each power supply and wire them together? and then connect those pairs of wire to the Xylotex board?

I'll check out the shuttle removed but I don't think that will make any difference as I get the problem running g-code.

no you want to wire them in series not parrallel, let me find a step by step guide 1st before you do it.

joe

David Da Costa
01-12-2007, 11:06 AM
Actually I think what I described above sounds like I would have wired them in parallel not series so Joe if you don't mind could you explicitly tell me how to wire it before I do blow myself up ;)

David Da Costa
01-12-2007, 11:10 AM
Our messages crossed, I figure that was wrong :) I'll wait futher instructions :)

ger21
01-12-2007, 11:20 AM
ATX power supply daisychaining.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17548

joecnc2006
01-12-2007, 11:22 AM
http://www.procooling.com/index.php?func=articles&disp=52&pg=1

Ger21 beat me to the other link. He is always fast on the draw. (must have a mile long favorates).

:)

David Da Costa
01-12-2007, 11:23 AM
Thanks Joe and Gerry I will try it today and report back

ger21
01-12-2007, 11:32 AM
Ger21 beat me to the other link. He is always fast on the draw. (must have a mile long favorates).

:)


Memory ;)

David Da Costa
01-12-2007, 11:33 AM
So nice to have you guys racing to help me :)

David Da Costa
01-12-2007, 11:37 AM
Looking forward to getting this sorted. Building the machine now seems a distant memory ;)

David Da Costa
01-12-2007, 01:37 PM
Power Supply testing is on hold for today as it appears that one of the computer power supplies is dead.

I ordered two more from Newegg so I should have them early next week.

joecnc2006
01-12-2007, 01:45 PM
Power Supply testing is on hold for today as it appears that one of the computer power supplies is dead.

I ordered two more from Newegg so I should have them early next week.


When i got some i bought from a computer repair place for 5.00 each, and wired 3 together.

can you call around and see if someone has some? atleast its cheap for testing.

Makesure they have close to the same rating, watts and amps.

David Da Costa
01-12-2007, 01:51 PM
Yes, I will see if I can find some local. Radio Shack and BestBuy want $60 ea vs $17 from Newegg.

I ordered 2 300 watt ones from newegg.

Interestingly the instructions on ProCooling did not say anything about having to jump the green power on to a common to power the psu on.

David Da Costa
01-12-2007, 01:52 PM
I am going to try changing the microstepping on the z axis to from 1/8 to 1/4 to see if there is any difference in behavior (not really expecting anything but it may change the resonance.

joecnc2006
01-12-2007, 01:58 PM
Here is a glossary of stepper motor terms if someone need a quick explination.

http://www.amci.com/tutorials/tutorials-stepper-glossary-terms.asp

joe

David Da Costa
01-12-2007, 02:21 PM
Well I just tried 1/4 stepping on the z and it sounds much better (smoother) with no resonance. I just ran part of my test g-code and apart from one motor stall at the beginning it seemed to run with no lost steps.

I am going to change the y to 1/4 stepping to as that motor tends to resonate. As per someone else mentioned (I think George), my x is fine so I will leave that at 1/8.

back to testing.