PDA

View Full Version : Need Help! Spindle wont change rpm



jonnyk2
04-14-2015, 05:01 PM
Hello everyone, I just purchased a used shopsabre and got it installed this week. I am new to this whole thing so please bare with my greenhorn questions. I am running the 4896 with 10 atc and a HSD 10hp air cooled spindle and the Mitsubishi FR-a700 inverter for the spindle. The problem I am having is that I cannot control the spindle speed from WinCnC , when I move the slider or manually type a speed change it does nothing.

I do need to replace the solonoid ( 119690) that is controlling the tool changer airway, and I wonder if the spindle adjustment will be fixed as well when I replace that, or is it a separate problem. I can change the spindle speed directly from the Inverter but its not supposed to be able to do that with my current set up. Do any of you have any insight into this?

I was bummed that even though its a 4 year old machine that the lifetime tech support does not carry over, and shopsabre wants 2000.00 to answer the question...so I am hoping I can find a solution here.

Thanks mates!

hub
04-14-2015, 05:14 PM
I have the same inverter. Less power but the same,You control the RPM by 0-5V or 0-10 (selectable in parameters). Is it wired/configured correctly?

*EDIT* Also, you need to set the inverter to External mode if you didn't? Do it by pressing the PU/EXT button. In PU mode it will ignore the signals.

ken rychlik
04-14-2015, 05:26 PM
It has to be enabled in wincnc. It may or may not have had the speed control installed. To check and see if you have it open wincnc and under help/about there are many boxes for options. If the speed control box is not checked, you don't have it. If you want to add it the folks at wincnc can fix you up. They have been very helpful. I also bought my sabre used. It's a well built machine, but if you want any help they want money. Feel free to pm me and I will be glad to help if you have questions.


Hello everyone, I just purchased a used shopsabre and got it installed this week. I am new to this whole thing so please bare with my greenhorn questions. I am running the 4896 with 10 atc and a HSD 10hp air cooled spindle and the Mitsubishi FR-a700 inverter for the spindle. The problem I am having is that I cannot control the spindle speed from WinCnC , when I move the slider or manually type a speed change it does nothing.

I do need to replace the solonoid ( 119690) that is controlling the tool changer airway, and I wonder if the spindle adjustment will be fixed as well when I replace that, or is it a separate problem. I can change the spindle speed directly from the Inverter but its not supposed to be able to do that with my current set up. Do any of you have any insight into this?

I was bummed that even though its a 4 year old machine that the lifetime tech support does not carry over, and shopsabre wants 2000.00 to answer the question...so I am hoping I can find a solution here.

Thanks mates!

jonnyk2
04-14-2015, 05:28 PM
Thanks for the quick response. I certainly hope I have it wired correctly. I have attached some pics. One thing i am not sure of was a oj and black wire that are not connected, and could not find where they go. But it does fire up the spindle and I can manually change the spindle speeds via the inverter, i just cant change it from the WinCNC software.

*edit i double checked to make sure it was in ext mode and it is.
276828276830

jonnyk2
04-14-2015, 05:31 PM
Thanks Ken, I appreciate it. I believe that the speed control is installed, because it has the slider in the WinCNC gui, but I will double check it. Thanks for the insight.

hub
04-14-2015, 05:48 PM
Thanks for the quick response. I certainly hope I have it wired correctly. I have attached some pics. One thing i am not sure of was a oj and black wire that are not connected, and could not find where they go. But it does fire up the spindle and I can manually change the spindle speeds via the inverter, i just cant change it from the WinCNC software.

*edit i double checked to make sure it was in ext mode and it is.
276828276830

How is your inverter I/O end wired? Start signal goes to terminal STF (fwd) or STR (rev), that works if it starts.
The RPM signal is connected to terminals 2 & 5. Check their connection.

jonnyk2
04-14-2015, 09:53 PM
How is your inverter I/O end wired? Start signal goes to terminal STF (fwd) or STR (rev), that works if it starts.
The RPM signal is connected to terminals 2 & 5. Check their connection.

Yep thats how i have it wired.

jonnyk2
04-15-2015, 09:59 AM
hub, is there a settings file for the inverter that you could share with me. My gut is telling me that I have some part of the program or setting in the inverter that is messing things up. In reading the documentation it says that i can upload different settings via a usb key.

hub
04-15-2015, 04:06 PM
hub, is there a settings file for the inverter that you could share with me. My gut is telling me that I have some part of the program or setting in the inverter that is messing things up. In reading the documentation it says that i can upload different settings via a usb key.

I don't have a file, I always change the settings from the inverter panel.
I have a record of all my settings, some are specific to my needs which wouldn't work on your machine, I have customized a couple of the inputs etc..

Here are some related setting I have in my VFDs:
P30 -> 1 (Enable extended functions)
P38 -> 120 (Frequency setting voltage gain frequency)
P73 -> 1 (0-10V)
P74 -> 3 (Filter(smooth) input external voltage)
P79 -> 0 (For external control, manual also possible)
(Right now P79 is actually 1, because my BOB decided to die)

Hub

*EDIT*
Actually, as an after thought, maybe the same thing has happened to you, the PWM -> voltage converter has died? Check the voltage from terminal 2 - 5 when you have set max rpm in the controller (Mach). If it's 0V, then the problem is not within VFD settings, but wiring and/or some component(s).

jonnyk2
04-15-2015, 04:41 PM
Hmm so I have another theory that might work. Currently the cable that powers the speed has three wires 2,5,10 I am wondering if one of them got mixed up so i have checked to see which number coresponds to which pin on the cable. So 10 is pin 3, 2 is pin 1,5 is pin2. I wish i had a schematic of the control box set up to make sure those are running to the correct pins.

hub
04-15-2015, 05:04 PM
Hmm so I have another theory that might work. Currently the cable that powers the speed has three wires 2,5,10 I am wondering if one of them got mixed up so i have checked to see which number coresponds to which pin on the cable. So 10 is pin 3, 2 is pin 1,5 is pin2. I wish i had a schematic of the control box set up to make sure those are running to the correct pins.

Terminal 10 is just a +5V output from the VFD.
(If you have a multimeter, measure the voltage between 2 & 5 when commanded to max RPM)

jonnyk2
04-16-2015, 12:42 PM
Ok i think i have it narrowed down to either a weird configuration in WinCNC or a bad daughter card. When i run winCnC and start the spindle with m3 and adjust the speed to like 10000 and measure the voltage output on pin 13, or 14 with 12 being the ground I get absolutely now signal whatsoever.

hub
04-16-2015, 04:35 PM
Ok i think i have it narrowed down to either a weird configuration in WinCNC or a bad daughter card. When i run winCnC and start the spindle with m3 and adjust the speed to like 10000 and measure the voltage output on pin 13, or 14 with 12 being the ground I get absolutely now signal whatsoever.

Yes, probably broken board just like I have at the moment. But yours is 0-5V(?) so all you need is a capacitor and resistor, connect them between the PWM output and VFD, here is a calculator for the R & C:
(Sample)RC Low-pass Filter Design for PWM - Result - (http://sim.okawa-denshi.jp/en/PWMtool.php)

Hub

jonnyk2
04-16-2015, 04:51 PM
woohoo i figured it out, and boy do i feel silly. So on the inverter controller the p/u and ext were lit up simultaneously which is a function that allows the use of external controls (like wincnc) and the parameter unit on the VFD to control the inverter. I went into program 79 and changed the setting to 2 which is ext only...and voila it works perfectly now. Thanks so much for your help hub, I hope i can return the favor sometime.

hub
04-16-2015, 05:16 PM
woohoo i figured it out, and boy do i feel silly. So on the inverter controller the p/u and ext were lit up simultaneously which is a function that allows the use of external controls (like wincnc) and the parameter unit on the VFD to control the inverter. I went into program 79 and changed the setting to 2 which is ext only...and voila it works perfectly now. Thanks so much for your help hub, I hope i can return the favor sometime.

I'm very happy to hear you got it working :)
My VFDs don't light up the PU & ext simultaneously when P79 is set to 1.. That's why i didn't think of suggesting setting it to 2..