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View Full Version : New Machine Build Pro 4848 vs Standard 4848 - Total Build



pdwatermelon
07-22-2014, 12:52 PM
Looking to mostly likely build a CNC Router Parts Machine, just want to cover all my bases after reading these forums for 3 days straight.

What is the dif between the standard and pro over at CNC? Do I really need the pro - Plan on Cutting:

60% MDF
35% Hard woods
5% aluminum

So here is my build plan - Not complete please help me fill in the blanks

CNC 4848 Standard = $2595
Spindle vs Router = HAVE NO IDEA YET, is a router good enough or do I want a spindle??? ~ $350
Router/ Spindle Mount ~ $100
Table Base ~$300 (made from wood)
Nema 23 Kit ~ (FULL ENCLOSURE TO SAVE TIME) $1295 at cnc
Mach 3 software = $150
Other software ??? = $400
Cable management kit = $229
Computer = $300

Am I missing anything

Total ~$5719 for ready to go system and I'll be routing away correct?

Also How long does it take to build one of these bad boys - I am mechanically inclined, but may struggle because of Murphy, and the electronics.

pdwatermelon
07-22-2014, 02:57 PM
Is this spindle something worth talking about?

2 2KW Variable Frequency Drive Water Cooled Spindle Motor 2 2KW Inverter VFD I | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-2KW-VARIABLE-FREQUENCY-DRIVE-WATER-COOLED-SPINDLE-MOTOR-2-2KW-INVERTER-VFD-i-/221354796303?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3389c6250f)

Where does the inverter fit into the mix of things?

alan_3301
07-22-2014, 04:51 PM
I have a standard 4848, no experience with the pro line.

My machine does everything I need it to. I don't know how accurate it is, but probably within 0.025" over the full travel.
spindle/vfd is nice, but the main reason I got it was to reduce noise, Of course cutting noise drowns out everything else on most cuts.

VFD takes 220v 60hz (in america) and converts it to 3 phase variable frequency to drive the spindle motor.

Your list looks pretty complete. As far as build time, I'd estimate 40hrs start to finish for everything. tweaking and all.

pdwatermelon
07-22-2014, 06:40 PM
That helps so much - Did you do a build log at all? You sound just like me - standard 4848 sounds like it would do the trick.

Where is the VFD Mounted on the Machine? Does that hook to the Stepper motors and such? nema 23?

Also what software did you end up using?

Looks like I will need to wire a 220 in the garage.

ger21
07-22-2014, 07:53 PM
The VFD controls the spindle only. It's usually located either in the control box, or a separate box.

You're also going to need some dust collection.

pdwatermelon
07-23-2014, 12:48 AM
Dust collection is something I am working on , Cant decide if I Just want to use the ol shop vac or not :)

kjk2002
07-23-2014, 06:21 PM
I'm guessing that by time you are done, you will be at $7K plus or minus. You don't say what tooling and other bits you already have. Cutters add up quickly, and no matter how careful you are they break or wear out and must be replaced. Dust collection is an absolute must with MDF, less so but still necessary with other materials, and a shopvac (mine anyway) can't handle what the machine can produce. Hoses, fittings, a dust boot etc. will add up also. You mention software, but $400 may not do it - depending upon how sophisticated you want the software to be. A tool height setter is a nice thing to have, and you can make one yourself or buy it ready made from CNCRP or others. You may want a pendant as well. You didn't mention proximity sensors or other limit switches either, and while not strictly necessary, they add safety and the ability to return the machine to a known position whenever needed.

I guess what I'm telling you is to allow a healthy contingency in your planning.

pdwatermelon
07-23-2014, 08:19 PM
Thanks for the reply kjk2002, that is extremely helpful -

Cutters - I have none, I have a normal router and bits, but am assuming I will need all new ones especially if I go with a spindle - Oi
Rightio on the software - I most likely will start looking at Dust collection systems in full now - ANy reccomendations?

Also Those last few things, I honestly have no Idea what they are or what they do. Tool Height Setter, Pendant, Proximity sensors, Limit switches - Looks like I have more homework.

kjk2002
07-24-2014, 05:25 PM
Go to the CNCrouterparts site - read the howtos, and look over the build photos and logs. There is also video on youtube showing builds and some jobs running.

CYoung
07-26-2014, 07:12 AM
I bought the pro4848 last month. The mechanical assembly goes pretty quickly (a few evenings) but haven't finished the electrical yet. Electrical/controls is not as well documented by cncrouterparts parts since I am using the nema34 fyi kit. I also bought the smoothstepper and motor driver motherboard. Software is a big one and I use bobcad. No experience with others but I am happy with it. They will give you a deep discount over the advertised price. I thought about a spindle but am staying with my router for the time being until I figure out if I really need the spindle. They are pricey to say the least. You can always add a spindle later if you feel You need it. I am hoping to get my motors to move in the next few weeks after debugging my electronics setup.

pdwatermelon
07-28-2014, 05:16 PM
That being said, would you go with the prebuilt electronics kit then? Just to make it simpler? I'm not sure I need the smoothstepper, or motor driver, but may consider it. That Bobcad seems quite Pricey -- wow.

I am so concerned about getting it all put together, and then the machine not turning on. HAHA. Then if I do get it running, having the ol' spindle with a mind of its on.

What is the difference between a water cooled and an air cooled spindle? Why not just get an air cooled? Wouldn't it be simpler not having to have hoses with water?

CYoung
07-28-2014, 06:42 PM
Well, since I haven't got my electronics working yet, I don't know how difficult its going to be to debug. I am hoping its not too torcherous. When I bought the NEma 34 DIY kit, we was expecting to get a schematic and jumper settings document from CRP for at least a basic setup, but instead all they had was the schematic for the pre-built kit, which isn't the same as the DIY (and it has errors). Once I get mine working, I plan to document it and post it here for others to use, but I really dont know what others have done to get NEMA34 DIY kit up and running (with smoothstepper). I am sure I am not the first customer to have this problem.

Regarding BobCAD - Dont let the web pricing scare you. They will sell it to you at a very deep discount and I need very deep. Just give them a call and tell them you wan the CNCZone discount and see what you get.

You sound like you are fairly new to this CNC routing hobby, so I am curious why you think you need a spindle over a std router at this point?

kjk2002
07-28-2014, 06:44 PM
I opted for the plug&play electronics and am happy with it, but on the downside, if you build up the electronics yourself you know what went into it and have a better chance of servicing it should that be necessary. I also have the smoothstepper and it is great. I have the ethernet version on the router and the USB version on my mill - Ethernet is much more problem free when it comes to electrical noise.

Bobcad has a pretty devoted group of followers, but I've heard nothing but bad things about their sales force - apparently they can be very aggressive. For starters, download some of the free, or free to try products.

The principle difference between water and sir cooled spindles is NOISE. When you cool the spindle with water you can generate a lot of power in a small package and completely avoid the noisy cooling fans in the air cooled spindle. Yes the hoses and reservoir and pump add to the complexity and have to be maintained - that's why I went with an air cooled spindle, but then I am not in production and don't do very long runs.

If you are in production and/or need to run for long periods - go water cooled.

pdwatermelon
07-28-2014, 06:56 PM
Good tip on Bobcad --

I thought I saw schematics for the build - fairly detailed - let me look tonight and see if I can find it again -

As far as spindle vs router ---dunno -- I just saw that everybody was UPGRADING to the spindle - so why not just get it now, since it was only about 300 bux.

ger21
07-28-2014, 07:01 PM
If you are in production and/or need to run for long periods - go water cooled.

Not necessarily true. I've been using $150,000 routers for almost 20 years with air cooled spindles.
Air cooled spindles with fan driven shafts can be very loud. They also tend to be 18,000 rpm vs 24,000 for water cooled.
Air cooled spindles with electric fans are a lot more expensive, but are much quieter.

kjk2002
07-28-2014, 07:29 PM
Ger21 is absolutely right - I didn't mention that there are 2 distinct classes of air cooled spindles.

pdwatermelon
07-28-2014, 08:24 PM
Ok, that makes sense - What is a good kit to get with a water cooled spindle, as the Electric fan air cooled are a lil out of my budgeto

Ozzybee57
06-26-2016, 08:15 AM
Ok, that makes sense - What is a good kit to get with a water cooled spindle, as the Electric fan air cooled are a lil out of my budgeto

A question I have to ask is and no one ever mentions it when picking out a spindle is, what is the maximum router bit shank size that it will accept. I went with a 3 1/4hp variable speed router so I could use a full range of bit sizes with it ( 1/8" to 1/2" collets) I've not seen any spindle motors that will take a 1/2" bit except for the very very pricey spindles.

ericclinedinst
06-26-2016, 08:39 AM
My 2.2kw 'China special' spindle has the er20 collet structure. I use 1/2" shank bits everyday in my spindle. Wasn't super expensive either. <shrug>



A question I have to ask is and no one ever mentions it when picking out a spindle is, what is the maximum router bit shank size that it will accept. I went with a 3 1/4hp variable speed router so I could use a full range of bit sizes with it ( 1/8" to 1/2" collets) I've not seen any spindle motors that will take a 1/2" bit except for the very very pricey spindles.

ger21
06-26-2016, 09:32 AM
Yes, an ER20 collet will accept 1/2" collets.
Almost all of the inexpensive 2.2Kw spindles use ER20 collets.
I paid $125 each for the two that I have.

Ozzybee57
06-26-2016, 09:57 AM
Thanks for clearing that up. I knew that er11 and er16 collets were being used but was unaware of the er20s. I'm very happy with the performance of my porter cable router so I never really investigated the spindles with vfds. My bad. :cheers: