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View Full Version : Cabinet Saw Type Suggestions Please?



diarmaid
07-12-2006, 11:56 AM
Hi,

I was going to buy the sawstop cabinet saw for $3500 but after lengthy emails they wont deliver to Ireland because they cant provide after sales support.....I didn't want after sales support...:( . Anyway, this leaves me back where I was originally thinking about the Jet 10" Cabinet Saw, which is 1/3 the price at €950.

Does anyone own, or has anyone used one of these. All reports and comments I've had so far seem to be positive so Im just wondering what your experience has been, either positive or negative. Thanks a million.

Also if you use a different make of cabinet saw and would like to specifically warn me away from it, that would be appreciated aswell. :)

http://www.southern-tool.com/store/10_xacta_saw_right_tilt.html

ger21
07-12-2006, 12:10 PM
I have a delta Unisaw. If I had to replace it, I'd buy another Unisaw. But it should outlast me by quite a few years.

turmite
07-12-2006, 12:23 PM
Ditto what Gerry said. I don't onw one but my brother does and I promise you it has seen a lot of use.

Mike

Mcgyver
07-12-2006, 12:45 PM
question for the woodworkers; the home shop saws i see in North America are regular table saws like the unisaw, but in industry and a lot of European machines like Felder and Robland (albeit expensive home machines) are sliding table saws. I've never used a sliding table but it seem a superior design, either for crosscutting or panels. Of course you can use it as regular saw for ripping. so anyone have thoughts on why hasn't the sliding table become more prevalent in NA - anyone have one/use one, and do you typically find sliding tables in European home shops? (don't mean to hijack but thought it relevant to the request for suggestions)

ger21
07-12-2006, 12:48 PM
You'll see a lot of sliding table saws in smaller commercial shops in the US. But, for home use, they need a lot more space, and they are expensive.

As for cutting large panels, I built a vertical panel saw that only takes up about 18" of floor space. I crosscut all my panels with that, and rip with the table saw.

diarmaid
07-12-2006, 06:27 PM
Thanks for all the comments so far folks. Delta seems to be very popular but maybe thats just in the USA? I'll decide later if I need a panel saw, I probably will, but for now the table saw would be a good start. :)

martinw
07-12-2006, 07:39 PM
Thanks for all the comments so far folks. Delta seems to be very popular but maybe thats just in the USA? I'll decide later if I need a panel saw, I probably will, but for now the table saw would be a good start. :)

Dear diarmaid,

I have a Powermatic 66 with a cross-cut table of my own, extremely modest design (about 15 years ago). It can do panels of 8 by 4 ft and is pretty much OK when I measure the diagonals.. maybe out by a couple of millimetres. It does, however take up an awfully large amount of workshop space.

My best advice to you is to consider your future needs NOW and get a good European panel saw. It will do everything that a US (or indeed European) cabinet saw will do, and do the panel stuff as well. OK, it will cost quite a lot more, but I would go for the longer term view.

I'm not knocking US manufacturers, it is just that there are a lot more people hereabouts who are now making good quality panel/table saws compared to 15 years ago.

Best wishes

Martin

diarmaid
07-13-2006, 08:27 AM
How are you doing martin, haven't seen you since my crazy thread about the mains frequency! :)
Thanks but I dont envisage cutting much sheet material, at least not within such a timeframe as to require a panel saw initially. I need the table saw for accurately ripping boards into correct widths, standard length 4.8m, (I dont think a panel saw will be good for this...but maybe it would...) and maybe cutting grooves to then be chiselled out for joints. I'll allow the space around my table saw initially to allow for working with sheets, but I think I'll probably end up being able to reduce that at the sides, and just leave space front and rear. Thats why I figure I can get a panel saw later, as or if the need arises.
Thanks for all the advice so far. :)

martinw
07-13-2006, 08:52 PM
Dear diamaid,

I don't know what you want to make with a cabinet saw.

They are good at ripping, and you can cross-cut short lengths of timber at a pinch. They are absolutely useless at cutting large sheets. OK, you can build a cross-cut sled, but that will not work conveniently on a quarter sheet of 8 by 4ft, let alone a whole sheet.

Sooner or later, you will want to do the latter.

Keep saving your hard-earned money, and buy once, not twice.

Best wishes,

Martin

ViperTX
07-14-2006, 01:18 AM
Mcgyver....well the sliding table saws are great when the piece you are cutting fits into their "stroke length"....but alas eventually the become just like the others when doing cuts beyond their "stroke length".....

bigz1
07-16-2006, 06:19 PM
How about buying 2nd hand you get a hell of a lot more for your money. All the small Wadkin panel saws in my place of work were bought used(pick one of these up for £500 at auction). After a further 10 years of use they still produce a good result.

Make sure you buy one with a tilt facilty, and if its for shop use it must be able to stop within 10 secs to comply wiyh current UK regs.

As you say 4.8m maybe best cut on a beam saw. You could always put a powerfeed on to improve matters though. Cost approx £300 buying these 2nd hand is not a good idea(take it from experience)

Comparing small UK panel saws to US ones. I prefer the riving knife supplied on the Uk ones to the Antikick back devise on most of the US products. Also a good strong sliding fence(mine in work vary from 1m to 3m cross cutting capacity) is far superior to the cross cut box you would have to make for the one in the link.

martinw
07-16-2006, 09:30 PM
. I prefer the riving knife supplied on the Uk ones to the Antikick back devise on most of the US products..

My 15 year-old Powermatic 66 came with a riving knife and "anti-kickback" pawls", riding, and fixed to either side of the knife. Unfortunately, the saw blade throat plate always managed to catch the pawls and jam into them. The "anti-kickback " pawls thus guaranteed quite the opposite as the workpiece jammed. It was a spectacularly stupid piece of design.

For panel ripping, get hold of a couple of wheels that fix to your ripping fence and pull the piece against the fence. For ripping lumber, use a riving knife (splitter) and put the pawls in the trash bin before they injure you.

IMHO

Best Wishes

Martin

fyffe555
07-16-2006, 10:18 PM
My 15 year-old Powermatic 66 came with a riving knife and "anti-kickback" pawls", riding, and fixed to either side of the knife. Unfortunately, the saw blade throat plate always managed to catch the pawls and jam into them. The "anti-kickback " pawls thus guaranteed quite the opposite as the workpiece jammed. It was a spectacularly stupid piece of design.

For panel ripping, get hold of a couple of wheels that fix to your ripping fence and pull the piece against the fence. For ripping lumber, use a riving knife (splitter) and put the pawls in the trash bin before they injure you.

IMHO

Best Wishes

Martin

The PM66 has a splitter which I think is somewhat different to the UK spec tale saw Riving knife? Traditionally a riving knife is mounted to the arbor trunnion so that it goes up and down as well as tilting with the saw blade. As the knife is always behind and at the same height as the blade you can do partial through cuts without having to remove the knife. Wish my PM66 had a riving knife...

Totally agree on the pawls though. They and the 'guard' where more dangerous than the kickback.

The ripping suggestion is good too, I use temporary infeed and outfeed tables with fence wheels to rip 8x4 sheet stock. Works ok with a bit of care and enough space arouns the saw. Hardest bit is getting the whole sheet on the table.

OCNC
07-16-2006, 11:58 PM
Hi,

I was going to buy the sawstop cabinet saw for $3500 but after lengthy emails they wont deliver to Ireland because they cant provide after sales support.....I didn't want after sales support...:( . Anyway, this leaves me back where I was originally thinking about the Jet 10" Cabinet Saw, which is 1/3 the price at €950.

Does anyone own, or has anyone used one of these. All reports and comments I've had so far seem to be positive so Im just wondering what your experience has been, either positive or negative. Thanks a million.

Also if you use a different make of cabinet saw and would like to specifically warn me away from it, that would be appreciated aswell. :)

http://www.southern-tool.com/store/10_xacta_saw_right_tilt.html


I bought a Chinese made contractors saw for $450 and threw away the motor and the fence. I then purchased a 2.5 hp Baldor motor for $225 and a Biesmeyer fence for $150. I use a variable pitch pulley on the motor (double matched vee-belts) and the blade speed has been adjusted up to the tension speed of the blades (about 5600rpm if I'm remembering it correctly). I have a 4'x10' runout table and have movable supports for infeed and side overhangs. The motor, the fence, blade speed and sharp high quality blades are the key elements. Most tables in any price range are flat and the arbors are true. The advantage of sliding tables comes to bear when you need to cut panels three sheets at a time to keep your production schedule. Other than that they're a slick luxury. If you're going to do a lot of ripping spend some money on a good power feed. It improves the cut enormously.

Chris

diarmaid
07-17-2006, 07:47 AM
Im still here watching everthing thats being said, its all very useful and helping me know what to look out for. Please feel free to discuss anything cabinet saw related in this thread.
L8rs.

martinw
07-17-2006, 09:56 AM
Wish my PM66 had a riving knife...



Dear fyffe555,

My mistake. I didn't realise that "splitter" and "riving knife" are not the same thing.

Best wishes

Martin

fyffe555
07-17-2006, 11:15 AM
Dear fyffe555,

My mistake. I didn't realise that "splitter" and "riving knife" are not the same thing.

Best wishes

Martin


Martin, Nor did I till I moved from the UK to the US... miss the knife though, always having to take the splitter off and then you try and get by without stopping to put it back on again. Not the smartest thing to do.

Good thing about the US saws is that the arbor is long enough to mount a dado set. I understand new EU saws cannot mount a full dado set by law?

Andrew

martinw
07-17-2006, 01:01 PM
I understand new EU saws cannot mount a full dado set by law?



Dear Andrew,

I don't know about the dado sets, but it wouldn't surprise me. The EU seems hell-bent on banning everything!

Best wishes

(Grumpy) Martin

bigz1
07-17-2006, 05:55 PM
The Health & Safety exec still allows a 15.5mm dado knife to be attached to table saw along as the arbour is long enough. Unfortunately as already pointed out,no modern UK saw that I know of has an arbor long enough for a dado.

martinw
07-17-2006, 07:19 PM
Wish my PM66 had a riving knife...


.

Dear Andrew,

I took a peek at the PM66 arbour after your post. There is a large amount of cast iron to fix into. I think it would be entirely possible to mount a riving knife to it. OK, it would have to crank to get it in line with the saw blade, and you might need to remove some of the original manufacturer's "splitter" mountings, but it could be done if the riving knife has substantial supports below the table. It really could.

You would, of course, attempt this at your own risk...(in other words, do not send the lawyers round).

My only reason for not doing this myself is that I mainly cut sheets, not lumber, and have no need for this modification

Anyway, that's my suggestion.

Best wishes,

Martin

fyffe555
07-17-2006, 08:33 PM
Dear Andrew,

I took a peek at the PM66 arbour after your post. There is a large amount of cast iron to fix into. I think it would be entirely possible to mount a riving knife to it. OK, it would have to crank to get it in line with the saw blade, and you might need to remove some of the original manufacturer's "splitter" mountings, but it could be done if the riving knife has substantial supports below the table. It really could.

You would, of course, attempt this at your own risk...(in other words, do not send the lawyers round).

My only reason for not doing this myself is that I mainly cut sheets, not lumber, and have no need for this modification

Anyway, that's my suggestion.

Best wishes,

Martin

Thanks for the effort and idea. My '74 PM66 must have a different trunnion assembly to yours. The Splitter is mounted on the back of the lower trunnion which provides the Tilt, the Arbor is mounted on the upper height adjusting trunnion which is hinged at the front of the saw and ends at the arbor boss. Nothing beyond the arbor boss goes up and down so nothing to attach the knife to behind the blade.

Shame really - I had it all apart a few years ago putting in a new motor, arbor bearings and newer VX3 drive belt system and spent a while tring to figure out how to mount a riving knife. Short of major surgery, lots of fabrication and welding to the cast iron trunnion there wasn't a graceful way of doing it. Didn't want to risk distorting the bearing mounts and the kitchen needed finishing so it all went back to together. without any mods.

It's a nice saw to use, though that was after I replaced the old fence.

rgrds

Andrew

diarmaid
07-20-2006, 05:15 PM
Ok, Im gonna try and get the Jet with a left tilting blade, bismeyer 52" fence, and built in router table with guide rail. Im not sure about motor flexibility, but I'll get the largest I can on 1 phase power. Wont be buying for a while so plenty of time for anyone to give more advice/comments. Thanks all. :)

martinw
07-20-2006, 07:52 PM
Ok, Im gonna try and get the Jet with a left tilting blade, bismeyer 52" fence, and built in router table with guide rail. :)


Dear diarmaid,

Excellent choice. Left tilt blade and Bill B fantastic fence.

Make yourself a right hand saw extension table, and mount your under-table router in it. You can use the Bill B fence for this also.

Then get a couple of fence wheels to guide the stock past the router. These will have to rotate in the opposite direction from the wheels used for ripping stock on the saw.

The easiest way to use fence wheels is to put some kind of T-slot on top of the rip fence and some kind of sliding mounting on the bottom of the wheels that you want to use. After that, you can easily apply a force to the workpiece at exactly the point you may wish towards the fence. It is well worth taking the trouble to do this. Moveable fence wheels are well worth the trouble.

One more thing. If you have a table saw mounted router, it is really easy to hit the saw ON button rather than the router ON button. If you stack all kinds of junk on your saw table, this can lead to interesting results.

Hope this helps

IMHO

Best Wishes

Martin

diarmaid
07-21-2006, 06:06 AM
Thanks martin, I'll keep all that in mind and see what I can do.


One more thing. If you have a table saw mounted router, it is really easy to hit the saw ON button rather than the router ON button. If you stack all kinds of junk on your saw table, this can lead to interesting results.


Thats very good advice, sounds like the results would be very interesting. Are your talking from personal experience?.....sounds less than pleasant! :eek:

martinw
07-21-2006, 09:13 AM
Thanks martin, I'll keep all that in mind and see what I can do.


Thats very good advice, sounds like the results would be very interesting. Are your talking from personal experience?.....sounds less than pleasant! :eek:

Dear diarmaid,

Yes, I've hit the saw on button instead of the router on button many times. To date, the blade hasn't actually picked anything up, but it is a bit scary. I now try and make sure the saw blade is fully retracted when I am about to use the router.

Best wishes

Martin

ger21
07-21-2006, 11:37 AM
I'd mount the router swith at the far end of the fence, so that doesn't happen. I have a router mounted in the table, but don't have a switch on it (yet). I reach under the table to turn it on.

martinw
07-21-2006, 11:53 AM
I'd mount the router swith at the far end of the fence, so that doesn't happen. I have a router mounted in the table, but don't have a switch on it (yet). I reach under the table to turn it on.

Dear Gerry,

To turn on my router I either have to reach under the table or plug the router into an extension lead (usually the latter). I still absent-mindedly instinctively go for the saw on switch though. The old grey matter is obviously feeling the strain.

Best wishes

Martin

Megahertz
09-20-2006, 09:25 AM
Hello All,

I am getting ready to build a better table saw / router stand for my tools. I have an old rockwell-delta 10" table saw. I will also have a right side table extension with under to table mounted router. I would like to use the fence for both the T.Saw and router. Here are my questions....

Who is your source for the beismeyer fence? I noticed a price of $150 in these threads?

It looks like the Beismeyer fence has melomine vertical rails. Can these be removed and replaced with a custom design? The router side (Right side) sometimes has a split fence design with the outfeed fence flush with the router bit. I would like to make a custom fence for the right side with this feature.

MartinW, I do not understand your post about fence wheels. Can you please explain how they work again? Can you get a picture?

pminmo
09-20-2006, 11:06 AM
Dairmaid I don't think you will regret the Jet. I've got a Powermatic Artisan with a Vega fence and have conteplated a cabinet saw for the last several years. The old Unisaws are awsome machines, but the new Unisaws aren't the same quality IMHO. I've got a 20 year old Jet jointer, JDP-17MFW drill press and DC-1100 Dust collecter with cainster filter. I've been happy with them all. I would say the newer Jet tools are higher quality than my 20 year old jointer.
Anyway, i have pretty much decided that the Jet JTAS cabinet saw is the route I will take.

Anybody know if the Exacta fence is a Biesmeyer clone or made by Biesmeyer?

ger21
09-20-2006, 11:20 AM
Anybody know if the Exacta fence is a Biesmeyer clone or made by Biesmeyer?

Probably a clone, since Delta bought Biesmeyer.

Also, expect to pay close to $300 for a 52" commercial Biesmeyer fence.

martinw
09-20-2006, 11:29 AM
Hello All,


MartinW, I do not understand your post about fence wheels. Can you please explain how they work again? Can you get a picture?


Dear Megahertz,

My fence wheels are (or were) made by Shophelper Products. They are called Shophelper Safety Guides.

The only place I could find a pictue of this type of gizmo was on Ebay.

Here is the link...

http://cgi.ebay.com/TABLE-SAW-SHAPER-ANTI-KICKBACK-SAFETY-RIP-FENCE-WHEELS_W0QQitemZ320023454739QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting



Hope this helps

Best wishes

Martin

pminmo
09-20-2006, 11:52 AM
Probably a clone, since Delta bought Biesmeyer.

Also, expect to pay close to $300 for a 52" commercial Biesmeyer fence.

Yep, I know they are expensive. Sound's like a good project......na, already have too many.....