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dighsx
07-05-2006, 10:36 AM
Built my first cnc machine last summer (a jrgo with a Xylotex controller, and 269oz steppers) I decided it was time to upgrade to a bigger machine, a bigger power supply and new controllers.

First step was to figure out how to build a new power supply without killing myself. After a lot of reading and then more reading I built a 55Vdc 15Amp supply, with Gecko 202’s and a cnc4pc interface board.

I went a little over kill on the cabinet; I installed four 100cfm fans (2 blowing in 2 blowing out). The cabinet is 30X16X6 inches and weights a ton with everything in it. I also made the cabinet so it’ll hang on the wall. It makes it a lot easier to get at things this way.

Putting the power supply together went pretty smoothly. Once I figured out what I needed and what hooked up where it was easy. I designed the front panel and all the cutouts, and a clamp for the capacitor in VCarve Wizard (Great software, and they’ve got a new version out that really rocks! www.vectric.com)

So I hooked the power supply up to my current machine. With my old setup I could cut (if I was pushing it) around 25ipm. With this new supply I can cut around 100ipm and get rapids around 140ipm. I’ve got a trim router on my current machine so I think if I did any serious cutting I’d slow things down a bit. But man is it cool to see that thing fly after cutting at 15ipm most of the time.

I’m going to take a ton of pictures of this build. My last build I thought I took a lot of pictures but looking back it wasn’t near enough.

dighsx
07-05-2006, 10:46 AM
I really like Joe’s 2006 design. I debated trying to cut the parts myself but in the end I decided to leave that end of things to Joe’s expert hands. I ordered the parts and after some fun with DHL the parts came and I couldn’t be happier. Most of the holes are drilled already so putting things together is going to be a lot quicker than my last machine.

Here are some shots of the slides and then the Z-axis assembly. I machined two of the Y-axis slides wrong so I had to order more aluminum. But other than that the build has been going pretty smooth. Getting the U-bolts installed on the Z-axis was a bit of work, but I used a few clamps to squeeze them, and with a little help from a hammer things got done.

Next up is putting together all the torsion boxes.

sdantonio
07-05-2006, 01:48 PM
Nice work Jay. The only thing I did differently is to go with steel angle instead of the aluminum.

That warning on the PS is a bit ominous :)

Steven

dighsx
07-05-2006, 07:25 PM
Yeah the PS warning I thought was pretty funny. I figured I just let anyone who might be standing next to it to watch out.

Did you paint your machine and if so with what? I'm going to try using Zinsser Shellac-Base Primer-Sealer and then give it a final coat with enamel paint.

I'm still trying to figure out what I'm going to do for hold-downs too. On my current machine I used T-track, which is really nice. (You can see it in a few of the pics in the last post)

Tomorrow I'm going to start gluing torsion boxes and the Y-axis assembly. Then the painting begins. wee (I hate painting)

joecnc2006
07-14-2006, 12:19 AM
Any further progress? :)

dighsx
07-15-2006, 09:25 AM
Ok time for a quick update. I need to get the pictures off my camera yet so they'll come later. But I got the machine painted and put together. Took a little bit to get the gantry on and just right. It's really a two-person job. I haven’t cut anything yet but she moves around real nice. I get some whip in the x-axis screw. I think the distance is too much for 1/2-10. I'm thinking about maybe upgrading to 3/4 or 7/8's. Anyone have any thoughts on what size to move up to?

I'm running it with 269oz motors and it can move around pretty quick (90ipm+) but around 60 or 70 the whip in the long screw starts to get a little interesting. I also think I'm going to upgrade my motors. The 269's do fine but 762oz will nice.

But the build went pretty smoothly. I had to make a few parts for it but over all it was a snap. I tip my hat to Joe for a great job machining the parts.

I'll get the pics up in the next day or two.

ger21
07-15-2006, 09:56 AM
You might want to try 1/2-8 2 start. It'll spin 60% slower at the same feed rate.
If you go with the bigger motors, maybe even 1/2-10 5 start. That'll should get you 300+ipm.

Replacing with 1/2" higher lead screws should be a lot easier than fitting larger screws.

dighsx
07-15-2006, 09:59 AM
The main reason I was going to upgrade the lead screws was because the one screw is almost 60 inches long and I'm getting whip in it. I was thinking if I got a larger dia. screw it might do better over the long span?

pminmo
07-15-2006, 10:40 AM
dighsx,
You might find that using two nuts on your 60 inch screw might help the whip. The more distance between them the better. One nut only needs to take the load the other is just a stabelizer.

dighsx
07-15-2006, 10:43 AM
You mean on the gantry right Phil?

pminmo
07-15-2006, 11:10 AM
yes If your gantry is 10" wide, put one one each side so you don't limit your travel.

dighsx
07-15-2006, 11:12 AM
Thanks for the tip Phil. I'm going to try it out today. If it works that'll be great because I could then stick with the 1/2 lead screw size, which would make life a lot easier.

I'll cross my fingers it works.

joecnc2006
07-15-2006, 11:32 AM
yes If your gantry is 10" wide, put one one each side so you don't limit your travel.

Yes i would say it should work, I did think about doing the same thing, but mine runs at 80ipm with very little whipping, also your leadscrew could have a slight bow in it which will contribute to whipping, I had to replace mine once because of this. Just make the larger portion of the antibacklash nut and place a nut into it will not allow the nut to spin and move distance wise in relation to the distance from the anti-backlash nut.

Here is the DWG file for the anti backlash nut incase you need it, to make a part, try it with 3/4" MDF, the nut stepdown is 0.4" and see how it works..

rename the .txt file to .tap



Joe

dighsx
07-18-2006, 07:56 AM
Well I promised some pictures so here we go. First is the gantry put together? Then there's a shot of the adjustment box on the gantry. I had to machine the parts for the box, but it wasn't a big deal. Pic 3 is the torsion box before after painting. Pic 4 is a cool shot of me cutting the rails for the X-axis. Looks like I know what I'm doing don't it? Pic 5 is the machine put together before I installed the motors and lead screws.

More pics to come in the next post.

Joe, where did you buy your lead screws? I got my from Enco and they seemed pretty good but I must have some bend in the one cuz I get the whip at the end.

dighsx
07-18-2006, 08:04 AM
Ok this next set shows the making of my cutting bed. I got two chunks of 3/4 inch MDF and glued them up. Then grooved it for the T-Track. To attach the T-Track I bored 1/2 inch holes on the bottom so I could attach nuts to the screws.

And the last pic is a shot of the whole thing together.

I ordered bigger motors over the weekend (762 oz NEMA 34's). Today I'm going to machine the extra anti-backlash nuts and try and get them installed.

sdantonio
07-18-2006, 10:11 AM
Hi Jay,

I'm a bit confused about your ppower supply (but then there are people out here who will tell you I am easily and possibly permanently confused anyway). You have the sysmotech, which I assume is supplying 5VDC and 55VDC. So what is the need for what looks like a big torroidal tranny and the capacitor in the corner. Or is the sysmotech just supplying the 5VDDC and the 55 comes from the torroidal tranny?

It's a nicely set up box.

When you get to the point in the thread, please spend a little extra time when you describe your limit and e-stop switches with plenty of pictures.

Thanks

sdantonio
07-18-2006, 10:15 AM
here is a stupid question regarding whip.

Are you pre-loading your lead screw? This will often cut the whipping down a bit.

pminmo
07-18-2006, 10:38 AM
Wow, nice job!!!

dighsx
07-18-2006, 10:58 AM
Steven, The torroidal outputs 39Vac at 20amps it then goes into the big capacitor and from there to a bridge rectifier which turns it into 55Vdc at 15amps. I get my 5Vdc from an old power supply I had laying around which is behind the jacks.

I preloaded my lead screws (or at least I think I did) how much should you preload them. I.E. how tight is too tight?

I'm starting to look around for switches to use as limit switches but I'm not totally sure what I should use. I'm open for suggestions. And when I install them I'll post pictures.

Phil, Thanks.

Jason Marsha
07-18-2006, 11:14 AM
Great pics Jay. Those 762 motors should allow you to blaze through any material.

Jason

joecnc2006
07-18-2006, 11:47 AM
Wow, it is looking really good, I like the top you put on it with slotted channels, you have pleanty of room in the Z Axis for it, and it also will allow you to do any shimming if needed at all to plane the surface.

Looking forward to the larger motors..

sdantonio
07-18-2006, 11:51 AM
hi Jay,

Hubbard CNC has some switches made by "Micro Switch". a set of 3 switches is $1.99 (enough for 1 axis - 2 limits and a home). I picked up enough to do 6 axis for $14 including shipping

It was suggested to me to preload with 2, 1/2 inch beleville washers facing opposite directions to supply the tension. Cranking down on the nut squishes the belevilles and loads the screw.

Attached is how I was told to do it. The spacer can simply be a stack of flat washers or you can get fancy and cut one custom. Doing it this way would mean cutting 2 lead screw bearing HDPE blocks and mounting them back to back (the spacers take up the space inbetween for the motor end (upper diagram), only one required on the distal end (lower diagram).

This was any longitudinal forces on the screw are localized inside the machine where they belong. The only force the motor sees in the torque to turn the screw, so it is isolated from the other forces.

sdantonio
07-18-2006, 11:57 AM
OK, now that I look closer the sysmotech is just a plackard. I was thinking it was the actual PS. But it is cool.

sdantonio
07-18-2006, 11:58 AM
wow, I'm forgetting lots of stuff here. Hubbard CNC is a ebay seller

ger21
07-18-2006, 12:55 PM
It was suggested to me to preload with 2, 1/2 inch beleville washers facing opposite directions to supply the tension. Cranking down on the nut squishes the belevilles and loads the screw.

Attached is how I was told to do it. The spacer can simply be a stack of flat washers or you can get fancy and cut one custom. Doing it this way would mean cutting 2 lead screw bearing HDPE blocks and mounting them back to back (the spacers take up the space inbetween for the motor end (upper diagram), only one required on the distal end (lower diagram).

This was any longitudinal forces on the screw are localized inside the machine where they belong. The only force the motor sees in the torque to turn the screw, so it is isolated from the other forces.

If you're using rollerblade bearings, there's a limit to how much you can preload them before they stop turning smoothly, and it's not a whole lot. I have my screw mounted with a bearing on each side of a plate, and it doesn't take much tightening of the nut on the end of the screw before the bearings start to bind. You really need angular contact or some type of thrust bearing to put a lot of preload on a screw.

sdantonio
07-18-2006, 01:51 PM
Like these

http://cgi.ebay.com/Double-Row-Angular-Contact-Ball-Bearings-5201-2RS-12x32_W0QQitemZ7549651761QQihZ017QQcategoryZ25284QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

Their a bit more pricey than the skate bearings, but their worth it. And you might be able to get away with just using the one on the distal end witht he bellevilles and one right next to the motor. The second (router side) on the motor end shouldn't see much force at all. It would be pushing it to use only one on the distal end and regular skate bearings on the motor end. But it may be worth a try to see if you can get away with it. You would know as soon as you apply the load.

dighsx
07-18-2006, 05:08 PM
So the idea is you could tighten against these bearings more then the stake ones? Where can you get a belleville washer?

Are there any good posts that talk about the theory behind preloading the screws? The more I learn about it the less I feel I know.

Thanks for all the info guys.

Dman
07-18-2006, 05:22 PM
Very nice looking Jay!

sdantonio
07-18-2006, 11:38 PM
The more I learn about it the less I feel I know.

Do a search here under "preloading" or "leadscrew". There is a lot of information here.

Belleville washers http://mcmaster.com or any good machinist supply house.

I used to tell my college students my scarcastic view of the American education system.

1. K-12. If you lucky you learn to read, write, do simple math, and play well with others
2, undergraduate study. You find what you think you might want to do for the rest of your life and more importantly you learn what you don't want to do.
3. Graduate school. You study your chosen profession and most importantly you learn how to ask questions and actually listen to the answers as well as use the library.

Welcome to graduate school.

I too, realise now much I don't know every day here when I read a new post. Occasionally someone actually asks a question that I can answer. Sometimes, I just think I can answer the question, and I try anyway. Which is when Gerry steps in and makes a correction. This place is a great learning experience. Learn everything you can and give back knowlege whenever you can.

http://www.liutaiomottola.com/Tools/Backlash.htm (Ron is a firiend of mine)
http://pergatory.mit.edu/2.007/lectures/final/Topic_06_Screws_and_Gears.pdf
http://www.manufacturingtalk.com/guides/angular-contact-bearings.html
http://www.ntnamerica.com/Knowledge/Intro_Ball_Bearings/Angular_Contact.htm

dighsx
07-20-2006, 06:44 AM
Thanks for the links Steven. Seems like building a machine that 90% of the time spent is reading about building a machine.

Thanks again

bill south
07-20-2006, 08:29 AM
Great Job Jay. Looking Good! And I'll agree, if I spent as much time building as I did reading posts on the "zone", hell, I'd have a home space shuttle!
Bill

--colin--
07-20-2006, 10:24 AM
Jay,

Nice looking work. Where did you get the T-track material? I'd like to make a bed like that for my router.

--Colin--

dighsx
07-20-2006, 10:31 AM
I got it at www.rockler.com I bought some hold downs from them too that work nicely. Just seach at their site for T-track and a bunch of stuff will come up.

NIL8r
07-20-2006, 10:41 AM
GREAT looking machine Jay !!!

Rockler has a store in a store near my house. They occasionally have a set of t-tracks on sale for around $11.
Set includes: 4' aluminum T-Track Includes; two each of 1'' , 1-1/2'' , 2-1/2'' , & 3-1/2'' x 5/16'' T-bolts; four 5-star knobs; and four T-knobs.

It's a great set for the price. I've bought a few of these for some homemade jigs I made for my "manual" router. I have yet to build my CNC, but plan on using Joe's design also.

dighsx
07-21-2006, 11:22 AM
Well after a lot more reading and a lot of thinking about my preloading problem I got an idea to try rig up some cheap leadscrew preloading setup.

I went to the hardware and bought a pretty heavy-duty spring and some big washers. As you can see in the pictures I put an extra bearing on (I though this might help spread out the force on the main bearing) then sandwiched the spring between two washers. The hard part was getting the nut started. Once I got it on it took some trial and error to get the spring tension right. But now I have next to no whip.

Also a good test to see how smooth your gantry runs is to put a bobble head on it. I had put this bobble head on as a joke the other day but it really came in handy today when testing my new setup.

sdantonio
07-21-2006, 01:44 PM
Jay,

Excellent way to get around using the Bellevilles.

sdantonio
07-21-2006, 01:47 PM
Back in grad school we had the Silver Surfer and Spiderman. Not bobbleheads, but they served well to protect the instruments while we were not in the lab. They work too!

dighsx
07-21-2006, 03:15 PM
I had joked to some friends that I wanted a cnc machine I could ride on. Which gave me the idea of having a mascot. But it really was a great way to test the loading of the leadscrew.

joecnc2006
07-21-2006, 04:54 PM
Jay, I have to complement you on your build, I like when someone takes the basic machine and adds more ideas and incorporates slight improvements to it. I look forward to seeing it in action and cutting, I believe you can start making some alumn parts with it also. I hope you enjoy the machine and it performs well for you like mine has.

Joe

dighsx
07-22-2006, 10:46 AM
Thanks Joe that's really nice of you to say.

Just checking my eye things really seem to be tight and I'm really wondering how much (if any) final dialing in I'm going to need to do. Once I move it to it's final resting place I'll start really checking it and see if any shimming needs to be done.

But it's a great design, my hats off to you Joe!

dighsx
07-24-2006, 07:27 PM
My new steppers came today and they're looking pretty cool. They're a lot bigger then I thought they'd be. Now I need to machine some mounts for them. Anyone got any brainy ideas? I originally was going to just add a plate onto my NEMA 24 mounts to allow me to bolt the NEMA 34's to them. But I'm wondering now if that'll be strong enough.

I’ll take a shot or two of the new motors and post them.

joecnc2006
07-24-2006, 08:12 PM
I would use some metal studs to support the Nema 34's remeber you will have more torque than the nema 23's that what those mounts were designed for, you could add a top and bottom plate to strengthen them, then add the adapter plate for the nema 34's.

dighsx
07-25-2006, 10:18 AM
Here's a shot of one of the new steppers. They weigh just a little over 7lbs.

sdantonio
07-25-2006, 10:39 AM
Jay,

Nice motor, looks similar to what I just picked up. I had the chance to strip down a working - scrap instrument at work and pulled out a set of 4 nema 34, 650 in-oz pacific sciences steppers (with encoder for whatever good the encoder will do). I'm still at a stage where I can add a half inch or so to the upper end on the gantry sides to attach the steppers into (already drew it up). Do you need a file for the .5 bearing supports. I drew that up too for the 34 size? I drew then up in Rhino, I make no promises that they will convert correctly nto another CAD.

Joe, thanks for the suggestion of the metal posts. I was thinking of going that way.

dighsx
07-25-2006, 11:45 AM
Do they make a Rhino CAD viewer? I don't have RhinoCad.

Jason Marsha
07-25-2006, 01:34 PM
Steven,

What type machine did you strip down to fnd those nema 34's ? (if its ok to tell me)
I have been limited to nema 23's from the copiers I have stripped.

Jason

sdantonio
07-25-2006, 03:04 PM
I did the conversion and it looks loke it worked this time (as my Dad used to tell me frequently, "it helps if you read the instructions". It's remarkable how much good advice the old man used to give me)

On the gantry side, the only modification is that the head is enlarged just a bit to accomodate the 2.67 inch OC placement of the bolt holes. Other than that it should match up exactly with Joes drawings.

sdantonio
07-25-2006, 03:06 PM
In the dwg labled nema34 ignore the innermost hole, it is just the .5 in shaft. I just drew it in as a center and then forgot to erase it

dighsx
07-25-2006, 03:08 PM
Thanks for the conversion. I'm haunted by advice from my dad. All the stuff I ignored as a kid and as I get older it was all true.

Mr.Chips
07-25-2006, 03:21 PM
Good looking job Jay. Like your half circle supports on the gantry support rails, they should do the job and keep it from flexing. Keep the photos coming.

dighsx
07-26-2006, 06:53 PM
Alittle off topic but not really. I bought a new computer to run my new machine yesterday. If you're in the market for a new computer and you don't want to spend a lot take a look at this one: http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?pfp=BROWSE&N=200005+11&Ne=500000&product_code=339751&Pn=T3506_Minitower

$200 after rebates, it's a heck of a deal. I'm not much for eMachines but I've been testing the machine for the last day and a half and it's running great. Time will tell but you can't beat the price.

HayTay
07-26-2006, 08:23 PM
I'm not much for eMachines but I've been testing the machine for the last day and a half and it's running great. Time will tell but you can't beat the price.
eMachines are great as long as they keep working. If something breaks you better hope it's still under warranty otherwise the parts (if you can get them) usually cost as much as you originally paid for the unit. At that point it's better just to purchase a replacement PC or move everything over to a standard computer chassis with a standard power supply (as long as eMachine didn't do funky things with the pinouts/signals on the power connectors). The only other thing I noted when I used to work for a computer repair company was the eMachines tended to run HOT! I don't know if they've addressed the temp. issue, but I'd keep it out in the open and well ventilated. Watch the dust buildup in the air inlets, exhaust vents and cooling fans when the wood chips start flying.


Many happy hours cutting with your new PC,

HayTay

dighsx
07-26-2006, 08:28 PM
The way I figured it, for 200 bucks it's disposable. To build a machine would have cost me $180+shipping so I take a chance on the eMachine.

dighsx
01-03-2007, 06:03 PM
Here's a link to a video I made of some of the things I've done to my machine and some tips on setting it up. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-366650611288533238 I didn't edit the video so it's a little rough but I don't look like too much of a dork... Well no more then normal.

One thing I didn't put in the video but I wonder about is if the router should be farther back or more towards the center of the gantry. I just wonder if it's a little too far in forward, moving the center of gravity too far in front of the center of the gantry. If that makes any sense.

Jason Marsha
01-03-2007, 06:42 PM
Welcome back Jay.

The video is great, it will be a big help to those new builders of Joe's machine.
The machine is also larger than I thought, the human element really put it in perspective

Jason

dighsx
01-03-2007, 06:46 PM
Thanks, I hope it helps out some. And if you want to see something closer just let me know and I can make another video. Pictures are nice but the video with voice really can get stuff across faster.

On thing I did with the table I put it on was to cut a hole in the middle so I could get at the bottom of the gantry. I'd recommend doing this for anyone building a table to put the machine on.

Jason Marsha
01-03-2007, 06:55 PM
I was looking at nema 34 just before viewing your video and wow that is a big motor. For the larger machine I am planning I will probablly go with a 1200 or larger, all price dependent however.

Jason

dighsx
01-03-2007, 07:08 PM
I run my 269 nema 23's at 55volts 15amps and I can get rapids faster then the machine can really handle I'm hoping with the new bigger motors to not go faster but to just have more power at the speeds I'm currently running. 1200's would be pretty cool but maybe moving into over kill range. Although I'm not sure you can ever move into over kill range when it comes to power.

crocky
01-03-2007, 07:40 PM
Hi Jay,

Great video, thanks for the info :) I am sure it will be useful when I start building.

Cheers,
Bob

joecnc2006
01-03-2007, 08:10 PM
Jay, just saw the video you did a great job, i hope the machine works good for you and maybe some time you can make a video of it cutting some vecter software parts and pictures i would love to see some. :).

joe

ccsparky
01-03-2007, 10:35 PM
Thanks for the video and the tips, I'm about half way into my Joe's kit and will keep them in mind.

Your build looks great!

DougO
01-04-2007, 01:19 AM
Great video. I really enjoyed the tips. Watching the movie is a lot better for me than reading the book. I am working on Joes CNC and your video will definitely help.

thanks,
Doug

dighsx
01-04-2007, 07:19 AM
Glad you guys like the video.

For some examples of what VCarve (one of the software packages made by Vectric) check out their gallery here on the zone: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15995

ccsparky
01-04-2007, 07:48 AM
Glad you guys like the video.

For some examples of what VCarve (one of the software packages made by Vectric) check out their gallery here on the zone: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15995

Jay,

Wow, that's some nice work! I'm sold on the VCarve, do you get a commision? ;)

Thanks for the link!

William

dighsx
01-04-2007, 07:55 AM
No I don't get anything from them, I just think it's great software. Tell them Jay sent ya if you buy it. Maybe I can get free T-shirt or something... hehe

joecnc2006
01-04-2007, 11:42 AM
I look forward to seeing some of the v-carve'ings done on your new machine, post some of them here, and don't forget the video... lol

can you send me the videos? i am making a library so to speak, and like to send everyone who asks a cd with everything on it, dwg files, all drawings, pictures etc.

Joe

David Da Costa
01-04-2007, 01:02 PM
I also use V-carve and think that it is excellent, I even use it for simple CAD work. For 3D I also use Vectrics Cut3D which is also very good and easy to use.

sdantonio
01-04-2007, 01:36 PM
Hi,

I just saw your video blog. I also have nema32 motors. If this helps let me know. I have most of the other parts resized for the motors. Keep in mind also that the top plate of the z axis needs to be made about 1/4 inch longer. Otherwise your from motor mounting screws only have about 1/16 inch of MDF to hold them in place. I work mainly in Rhino, but the export to dwg seemed to work OK. Regarding my adjustment nuts on the gantry, a little epoxy helps hold them in place. Probably better then superglue since it will gap fill.

sdantonio
01-04-2007, 01:39 PM
OK, where the heck did my attachment in the last post go to? Hopefully this one makes it

Esses
01-08-2007, 04:38 PM
Excellent build and log dighsx.

I've just have to jump in and build a Joe2006 now.

I've have to modify the ribbings to suit metric first, as I can only obtain 12mm MDF here, or would 1/2" still be a snug fit for 12mm?


I enjoyed your video, is there a way that the video could be saved from google or be downloaded

Jason Marsha
01-08-2007, 07:45 PM
1/2" = 12.7 mm.

That extra 0.7mm will cause a loose fit. Check the mdf to see exactly how wide it is, sometimes it comes a bit oversize.

Jason

dighsx
01-09-2007, 08:18 AM
Hey can anyone think of a reason why I shouldn't upgrade my x axis lead screw from 1/2-10 to 3/4-10? At high speeds I start to get a little whip and was thinking that a 3/4 might be a betting pick for a 60 inch lead screw.


Hey Joe and Esses, I think the you guys should be able to download the video from google now. Let me know if it doesn't work.

joecnc2006
01-09-2007, 09:26 AM
the best thing to do would use 1/2-10 2 start, that way you double your speed, with the 5 turns per inch, so you can run 120ipm, with the same speed and torque you would be at running 60ipm with the regular 1/2-10 acme.

joe

joecnc2006
01-09-2007, 09:28 AM
Here is one built with the 1/2"-10 2 start, and he made his own nuts, with a cutoff piece of the leadscrew.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23546

Joe

dighsx
01-09-2007, 04:16 PM
The main reason I was thinking of upgrading was to get a stiffer screw over the long spans. I just wonder if 60 inches is a little on the long side for 1/2 inch screw. I could get 3/4-5 2 start.

joecnc2006
01-09-2007, 04:29 PM
i was just trying to save from replacing parts other than the leadscrews and nuts, but i will look at that sized or starts the 1/2 comes in, i may do a mod for that. Also one thing to look at is the less turns per inch the less the resolution will be, and that is why rack & pinion and belt drives do a gear ratio.

sdantonio
01-09-2007, 05:01 PM
The main reason I was thinking of upgrading was to get a stiffer screw over the long spans. I just wonder if 60 inches is a little on the long side for 1/2 inch screw. I could get 3/4-5 2 start.

Hi Jay,

Pardon my jumping into the middle of this conversation, but if you preload the lead screw you should have no problems with the 1/2 thickness. One of the guy's working on a Joe type machine did a video showing his preloading of the screw.

joecnc2006
01-09-2007, 05:31 PM
Hi Jay,

Pardon my jumping into the middle of this conversation, but if you preload the lead screw you should have no problems with the 1/2 thickness. One of the guy's working on a Joe type machine did a video showing his preloading of the screw.

Steve it was Jay in the video :)

sdantonio
01-09-2007, 06:40 PM
OK, cool video. Boy do I feel like a fool.

dighsx
01-09-2007, 08:08 PM
Don't worry about it, it's my beard that threw you off. My wife hardly recognises me. hehe My poor mans whip removers work pretty good at cutting down the shakes but I just was wondering if a bigger dia. screw would work better? Any one have any ideas is this would be true or not?

joecnc2006
01-09-2007, 09:21 PM
Don't worry about it, it's my beard that threw you off. My wife hardly recognises me. hehe My poor mans whip removers work pretty good at cutting down the shakes but I just was wondering if a bigger dia. screw would work better? Any one have any ideas is this would be true or not?

to me the key would be to make the leadscrew turn slower but have more speed and torque as Ger21 mentioned in david's thread the 1/2"-8 2 start is 4 turns per inch, you will get more speed and more torgue at a slower turnning of the motors.

sdantonio
01-10-2007, 09:14 AM
Hi Jay,

You actually have me thinking in terms of a larger diameter screw for my rebuilding (to be started right after the first one is done. In my case I have a 72 inch axis length, so I need a screw a little longer (about 80 or so), but the longest I can get through my regular suppliers for 2 start screws is 72". So to get slower turning and more torque that Joe reccomends I may have to go to a 3/4-5 screw (which I can get in 12ft lengths for a supplier a few towns away from where I live http://www.wttool.com/).

On the other hand, with my 625in-oz mototrs I may not need the slower turning screw to get good torque and speed.

I've scaled up the necessary parts for the nema 32's with the exception of the motor mounts. I sent one along in a previous posting (the bearing mount) Do you want me to send the rest or do you want to handle the scaleup yourself. I know a lot of people prefer to do this type of thing themselves to make sure it's done right. (I can send them in Rhino or do a conversion to dwg or dxf)? If you want I can even take a crack at generating g-code for the parts. I have to learn to do that part sometime :). I've got RhinoCAM installed, just haven't gotten around to using it yet.

dighsx
01-10-2007, 10:25 AM
Hey Steven if you want to post the rest of the mounts as a dfx file that'd be great. I meant to thank you for file you posted and totally forgot about it.

So it seems to be that maybe the best setup would be to get something with 2 starts and a bigger dia. that way I get the stiffness and the slow truning. This might show what a dope I am but if I get something that's 2 start do I lose resolution on my machine?

joecnc2006
01-10-2007, 11:06 AM
in essence yes you do loose resolution, but do you need that much acuracy?

if we use the standard 1/2-10, and a stepper with 200 steps, at full step, that is 10x200=2,000, steps per inch, so 1" / 2,000 = 0.0005" resolution, and if you use 1/4 micro stepping it is 0.000125, so if you use a 2 start just double those resolutions, a 1/2"-10 2 start is 0.0001" at full step.

Someone correct me if i am wrong.

Joe

dighsx
01-10-2007, 12:19 PM
Ok so you can either get 1/2-10 2 start or 3/4-8 2 start, which would you get? Also would you get 1018 Carbon Steel— Lead accuracy is 0.009" or better per foot. Minimum tensile strength is 64,000 psi, unless noted. Hardness is 126 Brinell, unless noted.

Or

Heat-Treated 4140 Alloy Steel— Harder than 1018 carbon steel, this rod ensures greater strength and durability. Lead accuracy is 0.009" or better per foot. Minimum tensile strength is 125,000 psi. Hardness is 200 Brinell. They have a black-oxide finish.

joecnc2006
01-10-2007, 12:32 PM
Ok so you can either get 1/2-10 2 start or 3/4-8 2 start, which would you get? Also would you get 1018 Carbon Steel— Lead accuracy is 0.009" or better per foot. Minimum tensile strength is 64,000 psi, unless noted. Hardness is 126 Brinell, unless noted.

Or

Heat-Treated 4140 Alloy Steel— Harder than 1018 carbon steel, this rod ensures greater strength and durability. Lead accuracy is 0.009" or better per foot. Minimum tensile strength is 125,000 psi. Hardness is 200 Brinell. They have a black-oxide finish.

My self i would stick with the 1/2" there is also a 1/2"-8 2 start

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=4454587&PMT4NO=16217156

because you will also have to think how much torque it will take to turn the 3/4" leadscrew from a dead stop.

Hope Ger21 can chime in. :)

Madclicker
01-10-2007, 12:33 PM
I'm using 3/4-6 and 5/8-8 and will probably change to 1/2 5 start.

dighsx
01-10-2007, 12:37 PM
1/2 would be easier to setup but if 3/4 would be better cuz of the bigger dia. I'm willing to make it work. Would the harder steel be better or am I spliting hairs on that one?

Also note I'll be running nema34 760oz motors so would starting torque be a problem?

joecnc2006
01-10-2007, 01:02 PM
I would keep it as simple as possible, if you can use dumpsters anti-backlash leadnuts, would be cheapest and best, and since the machine is setup for 1/2" thats all you need to replace.

I would go with the 1/2"-8-2 start gives you 4 turns per inch.

full step = 0.00125" res.
1/2 step = 0.000625" res.
1/4 step = 0.000313" res.
1/8 step = 0.000156" res.
1/16 step = 0.000078" res.

I am fixing to order two screws and dumpster leadscrew nuts.

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=4454587&PMT4NO=16217156

http://www.dumpstercnc.com/leadnuts_acme.html

joe

dighsx
01-10-2007, 01:46 PM
Alright Joe you talked me into it. I'm going to get the 1/2-8 2 start.

sdantonio
01-10-2007, 05:06 PM
Hi Jay.

This should be everything you need for the nema 32 motors. If I overlooked something please let me know. I only did one front plate (outside) since they all look pretty much the same to me (which means I'm probably missing something in the details). For the gantry sides,you really only need to cut the nema 32 holes on the side with the motor attached, the other side cal take a nema 23 set of holes. I made up a set of drawings for both sides though for balance (the head has to be enlarged to accomodate the larger motor, so this way it won't look lopsided).

All of the leadscrew holes (and all other holes, except of course for the motor mount screwholes) line up with the originals from Joe's drawings for the smaller motors. So these parts should actually be interchangable with your existing table. If you need anything else redrawn let me know. I'm working up a set for myself with a 32" wide X 6ft long cutting table.

dighsx
01-10-2007, 05:14 PM
Thanks for the files.

DayneInfo
01-10-2007, 08:07 PM
Wish I had known this a week ago. My Nook 1/2-10 screws arived yesterday. Still in the box....LOL. Oh well, there is always room for improvement on the 3rd machine.

Dwayne

ger21
01-10-2007, 08:16 PM
First of all, Steven, I think you mean Nema 34. :)

About screws. The Data-Cut guy (Chris, I think) used to post a lot on the Yahoo groups. He always used to say that he recommended 2 turns per inch or less for a router. With steppers and even a full step drive, that get's you to .002 per step. One thing you have to consider with the higher lead screws, is that you'll need more power to deliver the same amount of force. But, you have two things working to your advantage.
1) When you spin steppers slower, they have more torque.
2) Multiple start screws are much more efficient than single start screws.

The catalogs at www.nookind.com have a lot of great info. Using that info, you can do some calculations. Say you have a stepper that has 200 oz-in of torque at 500rpm, but only 100 oz-in at 1000 rpm (I found a similar motors torque curve at the Oriental Motor website). According to Nook's info, a 1/2-10 acme screw needs .624 oz-in to lift 1 lb. If you're moving at 100 ipm (1000 rpm), that 100 oz-in can lift 160lbs.

Now switch the 1/2-10 screw with a 1/2-8 2 start screw. A 1/2-8 2 start screw needs 1.024 oz-in of torque to lift 1 lb. So now spin the motor at 500 rpm, where it has double the torque, or 200 oz-in. That 200 oz-in can lift 195 lbs, and it's now moving at 125ipm. So the same motor can actually move your machine faster, and with more power.

Keep in mind that I picked a Vexta motor for these examples that would really benefit this example. Different motors will give different results. Using much higher voltages (usually requiring Geckos) will also give better results.

If you're using Nema 23 motors, I think the inertia required to spin 3/4" screws starts to hurt performance. If you need to use 3/4" screws, you need bigger motors, imo. As for the 4140 vs 1018, I didn't notice much of a price difference, but the price difference varies among screw sizes. The 1/2-8 2 start 4140 that I got from MSC is very nice, with a very smooth, shiny black finish.

dighsx
01-10-2007, 08:23 PM
Thanks for the info Gerry. I'm going to be useing Nema 34 760oz motors. I've currently got Nema 23 269oz motors. My power supply is 54V at 15Amps. So would you go for the 3/4 or the 1/2 inch screws. I can get 3/4-6 2 start or I could got with the 1/2-10 2 start. I'm just worried if I go with the 1/2 even thou I'll be spinning slower I'll still have a whip issue to think about. But maybe I'd have that with 3/4 too?

ger21
01-10-2007, 09:13 PM
You can look at the critical speed chart at Nook's website to find the maximum speed you should spin your screws. Also, the way they are mounted makes a big difference. That's where those $200 bearing blocks pay off. :)

dighsx
01-11-2007, 07:31 AM
Well I ordered the 1/2-8 2 start and the nuts from dumpstercnc. I really debated going with the 3/4 screws but I started to realize that it was getting a bit academic. Yeah in theory 3/4 would be better but in theory so would ballscrews. It's easy to lose sight of the goal and keep upgrading.

joecnc2006
01-11-2007, 10:14 AM
Well I ordered the 1/2-8 2 start and the nuts from dumpstercnc. I really debated going with the 3/4 screws but I started to realize that it was getting a bit academic. Yeah in theory 3/4 would be better but in theory so would ballscrews. It's easy to lose sight of the goal and keep upgrading.

My thinking is the easiest upgrade possible from existing machine layout.

On that note you Nema 34 motors, do you have a solution for an adapter plate? i know sdantonio, posted parts with motor spacing done, but i was thinking of a simple plate with both bolt hole patern in it for the Nema 23, and Nema 34 motors and the bolt holes for the Nema 23 Motors will be recessed to alow clearance over the bolt/screw heads.

dighsx
01-11-2007, 10:21 AM
We think alike Joe. I was going to take the Nema 23 mounting pattern and just used the same bolt holes to hook the new mounts to the body of the machine. Then have the rest scaled up for the larger motors. Figured that'd be the easiest setup and then I wouldn't have to change the machine at all, just the mounts.

joecnc2006
01-11-2007, 10:25 AM
We think alike Joe. I was going to take the Nema 23 mounting pattern and just used the same bolt holes to hook the new mounts to the body of the machine. Then have the rest scaled up for the larger motors. Figured that'd be the easiest setup and then I wouldn't have to change the machine at all, just the mounts.

Yup makes for a good (group) dicusion :D

dighsx
01-11-2007, 10:26 AM
Well if anything it's nice to know if I'm doing it wrong I'm not the only one.. hehehe

joecnc2006
01-11-2007, 10:41 AM
Well if anything it's nice to know if I'm doing it wrong I'm not the only one.. hehehe

Well just wondering what your overall opinion of the machine is thus far. do you have any cut parts or work with the Nema 23's on it?

You are using the Geko's on it if i am correct.

Joe

dighsx
01-11-2007, 11:20 AM
Right now I've got the nema 23's on it. Over all I'm pretty happy with the machine. It gets the shakes when I go past 50ipm. But I think I've got a bend in my x-axis lead screw. I'm hoping the new 2 start screws fix this.

I've cut a bunch of stuff for it. I'll dig around and post some pics. In fact this afternoon I'm going to use it to cut a few things. I'll post pics of that after it's done.

Yeah I'm running Gecko's and a new power supply now. My old controller was good for getting me into cnc stuff but to move something like this around you need more power then 24v at 3amps. When I upgraded to my new power supply and the Gecko's I went from 15-20ipm to 100+ipm on my old machine. Let me just say this, my JRGO machine wasn't built to go that fast. I've had this new one up over 150ipm but things get a little scary. I can't wait to hook up my bigger motors and the new screws. Should make things interesting.

I wonder sometimes if the router is alittle too far forward on the gantry and should be back a bit to get it more over it's center of gravity. I've toy'd with the idea of adding some weight to the back of the gantry to see if that made any difference. I'm half toying with the idea (and this is super low on my list of things to do) of remaking the gantry and shifting the router back and changing the way the bottom torsion box and the gantry are joined.

Over all it's a great design and I don't regret buying it. Like any machine it takes time to dial it in and really get it hummin'. The other problem I've got is after about 2 days of using it and being wow'd over by the bigger cutting area I started thinking 'Gee it'd be nice if I could cut something bigger.' Ahh we're never happy are we?

dighsx
01-11-2007, 12:13 PM
Hey here's something interesting. I was looking around Nooks site that Ger posted up. If you look at this chart http://www.nookind.com/pdf/AcmeInchCharts.pdf A 1/2-10 1 turn acme screw that is supported by both ends with a 60 inch gap has a max ipm of 60. I'd that that's more then right on the money.

If I'm reading the chart right it looks like 1/2-4 can go just a bit over 100ipm. So you'd think with 2 starts you could do that if not a little better.

I need to find some 6-1 1/2 1 start screws. I could go almost 10000ipm. Granted I'd need a big stepper to turn that screw.

dighsx
01-12-2007, 03:29 PM
Here are some pipe knockers/ashtrays/holders I'm working on. This was my first test I actually cut. I've had a few designs that I keep refining but I thought it was time to actually cut something and see how it looks. I'm glad I did too, I made the little tray just cuz I had the extra wood, but I think it's nicer then the big one.

The little tray is about 6x5inches the big one is about 9x6. I used a 2-inch ballnose bit and VCarve Pro to make the designs.

I didn't bother sanding or finishing them cuz they're just tests.

joecnc2006
01-12-2007, 03:44 PM
Here are some pipe knockers/ashtrays/holders I'm working on. This was my first test I actually cut. I've had a few designs that I keep refining but I thought it was time to actually cut something and see how it looks. I'm glad I did too, I made the little tray just cuz I had the extra wood, but I think it's nicer then the big one.

The little tray is about 6x5inches the big one is about 9x6. I used a 2-inch ballnose bit and VCarve Pro to make the designs.

I didn't bother sanding or finishing them cuz they're just tests.

very nice looking, i would have never thought of those to cut, goes to show once you have a cnc machine your mind starts thinking of different things to do with it.

dighsx
01-12-2007, 03:49 PM
Thanks. Once I get a few designs hammered out I'm going to buy some fancy wood bowl turning blanks and cut them out of those. I'm also working on pipe stands and a storage cabinet for pipes. Half toying with the idea of trying to sell some pipes and the extras if I ever make a few pipes worth showing to the public.

Aren't a lot of pipe smokers around so I'm doubt I'll make millions but it's fun making the stuff so..... And what I don't sell I can always use. You never can have enough pipe stuff.

dighsx
01-14-2007, 06:12 PM
Here's my newest video. It shows my Joe2006 machine actually cutting some stuff. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2035841449423334539 For some reason the end got clipped off when I uploaded it to google. But you still get to see the first 6 minutes. Maybe tonight I'll try to reupload it.

bp092
01-14-2007, 06:21 PM
Jay cool video once again. Do you have a way of jogging it over to the starting point you need or do you jog it in mach 3 to the start point and then center the piece under the bit? Do you have a home position and a tool changing position? Thanks for sharing man.

Jason Marsha
01-14-2007, 06:31 PM
Like the vid Jay, the gear looks really cool.
Did you get a small stripe in the middle of the gear due to the depth of the first pass.

Jason

dighsx
01-14-2007, 10:11 PM
To start the job I just stick the piece down, mark it's center and then jog the machine in Mack3 over to the center mark. Then zero everything out and start cutting.

Jason, I'm not sure what you mean. I don't think I got a stripe but maybe I'm not understanding what you're asking. I can be a little slow on the uptake sometimes. hehe


I also wanted to post that I launched my new cnc website today: www.cncjay.com A few people have been bugging me to get a site up and I needed a place to post up info about the upcoming Vectric Users' Group Conference I'm organizing.

joecnc2006
01-15-2007, 10:17 AM
Just finally was able to see the latest video, looks good, i like the gear, That is on my list i want to get some plans to make a cool looking clock, I know they only run for a few Hours but they look good.

Jay your machine looks like it is working good for you.

On my signs I use a 60 deg. V-Bit it makes the lettering stand out some.

Joe

DougO
01-16-2007, 03:13 PM
Jay, love the video. Looks like you really use your machine. I'm hoping to hear more on your conference. Hope it's not to far from me.

dighsx
01-17-2007, 04:34 PM
DougO, for more info on the conference you can go here: http://www.cncjay.com/vectric_conference.cfm

It's going to be held on April 28th in Monessen, PA.

Hope you can make it.

sdantonio
01-18-2007, 09:09 AM
A master of marketing, he even has his own line of clothing :)

dighsx
01-18-2007, 09:13 AM
Hey you gotta pay for hosting somehow. hehe

joecnc2006
01-18-2007, 10:52 AM
Hey you gotta pay for hosting somehow. hehe

Jay, i read your blog on your site, what i did to stiffin the gantry, was add threaded rods through the gantry sides 14" from the gantry bottom and 1" in from sides, and right above the Gantry bottom torsion box 2-7/8" from the bottom of the gantry sides, this worked really well and does not allow the gantry to flex now. The ones above the cutting bed can be higher just depending what you want to cut, right now it gives clearance of 4.5" above my bed.

Kelly also did the same on his machine and worked very good, he is also the one with the 1/2"-8 2 start leadscrews.

here is a picture showing the rods.

dighsx
01-18-2007, 11:04 AM
Yeah I just saw JTLs machine where he's got the rod running just below the upper torson box on the gantry. I think I'm going to try that out too. The ones I added to the bottom really stiffened things up. I was debating putting a piece of steel on the outsides of the gantry and tying that into the upper and lower torsion boxes.

How's the quick tool change thing working out for you? My only fear with that model is that maybe it's a little weak for a 2+hp router. I think I read they're coming out with a 15hp rated one?

I'm drawing up the final design for mounting the nema34's. I got my screws and dumpstercnc nuts so I'm itching to get that all on there and really get this machine crankin.

joecnc2006
01-18-2007, 11:17 AM
with the TC installed i did the v-carving at 10,000 rpm, and have cut at 12,000 rpm, JLT has the new spring now, waiting for his reaction to it, i will get one also.

I have not installed the tool holder yet, but will very soon, and use Mach3 comands for it.

dighsx
01-18-2007, 11:21 AM
Yeah his tool holder is really cool. That's on my list of projects. When you get it all figured out in Mach3 make sure you pass the info along. It'd be nice if it could be setup so you just included the tool numbers in the gcode and off it goes. I'll have to install some homing switches to get that to work I bet...

sdantonio
01-18-2007, 11:27 AM
Thinking back to the original plans for the gantry with the taller gantry sides (yes, at one time they were taller by at least an inch), I seem to remember that there were four threaded rods running through the interior of the lower gantry tortion box as well as the ones in the pipe support tortion box. Or am I mistaken on this. After a certain age you sometimes start remembering things wrong.

dighsx
01-18-2007, 11:30 AM
After a certain age you sometimes start remembering things wrong.

I hit that age when I turned 3 and it's been downhill even since then. hehe

ccsparky
01-19-2007, 08:53 AM
Well, well, well, look what I ran across. While doing research on what machine to build I collected any and every picture I could that would help me make up my mind and use a reference once I did get going.

This shot made me laugh as at first I though, what the heck, that's a small version of Joe's machine. So a couple of days ago I was going through my picture folder and ran across this picture. After looking at it a few times it hit me, "That's Jay"...

29891

joecnc2006
01-19-2007, 09:04 AM
That is funny, i never saw that picture before.

dighsx
01-19-2007, 09:09 AM
Yeah that was on my last vacation to Germany. I didn't think I could be without my machine for 2 weeks so I took it with me. Here's a shot of me at Oktoberfest.



Mmmm I could go for one of those beers right about now.

ccsparky
01-19-2007, 09:19 AM
Yeah that was on my last vacation to Germany. I didn't think I could be without my machine for 2 weeks so I took it with me. Here's a shot of me at Oktoberfest.



Mmmm I could go for one of those beers right about now.

Great shot, very funny!
It's amazing what they'll let you take on a plane, just don't take a bottle of water!! :)

My brother and I were over there for Oktoberfest in the mid 80's, if all goes as planned I'll be over there visiting my daughter and son-in-law this year. I'll tip one for you!

sdantonio
01-19-2007, 09:26 AM
So is this actual protographic proof that Jay actually invented the Joe machine? Of should we be sceptical and think of this on the same level as photographic proof of aliens and big foot.

How did you regrow your hair? That secret could be more lucrative than owning and running a CNC machine.

dighsx
01-19-2007, 09:35 AM
Hahaha I haven't figured out how to grow my hair back, I just figured out how to be lazy. Most of the hair on my head is in retreat.


As for proof, I think the only thing these pictures prove is I have way to much free time.

sdantonio
01-19-2007, 11:36 AM
Actually, one of the funny things about those pics is that I am currently building 2 Joe style machines, one big one and one small one for the girlfriend. And hers is just about the same size as those in the pics (1ft X 3ft total size). But it's still way to heavy to carry on the plane like that.

joecnc2006
01-19-2007, 01:04 PM
Actually, one of the funny things about those pics is that I am currently building 2 Joe style machines, one big one and one small one for the girlfriend. And hers is just about the same size as those in the pics (1ft X 3ft total size). But it's still way to heavy to carry on the plane like that.

cool, you have to post some pics of them and side by side.. :)

Joe CNC Model 2006, and
joe cnc model 2006 mini-me ...... LOL

bp092
01-19-2007, 01:13 PM
sweet pic, Jay how are you affiliated with vectric?

dighsx
01-19-2007, 01:35 PM
I'm not affiliated with Vectric other then I own their software. I've done some beta testing and written some documentation for them. But I didn't get paid for any of my work. Just really like their software. Now if they wanted to pay me I'd be more then happy to take the money... hehe

I've met a ton of really great people over at their forums and decided that we should get together. So with the help from a few other forum members I'm setting up the Vectric Users Group Conference. I really shouldn't be using the name Vectric in the title as I've gotten no support from them money or otherwise and it's not a Vectric sponsored event. But the title has a nice ring to it and we'll manly be talking about using Vectric’s software. Although one of the topics I'm going to present on is: How to brew your own beer, which really isn't cnc related but I had a few people ask if I'd talk about it (I think they're hoping for samples)

I'm sure that was way more then you wanted to know, but there it is anyways. If I seem like I must work for them cuz I go on and on about how great their stuff is, it's only because I really like it.

sdantonio
01-19-2007, 01:48 PM
this is pic from a couple of weeks ago. Curently I'm finishing and installing the gantry and z-axis this weekend. Then I will use the big one to finish up the small one (and I want to recut the z-axis for the big one too (using the big one of course).

dighsx
01-19-2007, 01:51 PM
That is really cool. So what's she going to make on it? And I bet you once she get's going she'll be running jobs on yours and you'll be stuck using her's.

sdantonio
01-19-2007, 01:53 PM
Although one of the topics I'm going to present on is: How to brew your own beer, which really isn't cnc related but I had a few people ask if I'd talk about it (I think they're hoping for samples)


Check out

brewery.org/brewery/cm3/CatsMeow3.html

The site is loaded with all sorts of recepies.

sdantonio
01-19-2007, 02:01 PM
My main thing is violin making (actually all the members of the violin family and guitars too). The table is sized to be able to handle anything up to the size of a upright bass without any problems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bass).

She is a big motorcycle person and owns her own heated gear company for those who want to ride all winter (http://cruzanengineering.net/). I think she wants to use hers mainly for fabing up small aluminum parts for custom bike applications and also she talked about doing a line of "industrial" jewlery for bikers. Something like neck chains with the persons girlfriends or wives name cut in black anodised aluminum (for those who think gold or silver is for sissies).

joecnc2006
01-19-2007, 03:52 PM
this is pic from a couple of weeks ago. Curently I'm finishing and installing the gantry and z-axis this weekend. Then I will use the big one to finish up the small one (and I want to recut the z-axis for the big one too (using the big one of course).

ok so why don't you have a build log??? LOL

the little one kinda looks like a pinball machine.. :)

you need to send me your drawing files, so i can check it out.

Joe

dighsx
01-20-2007, 09:19 PM
Got a new video of my Joe2006 in action http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3729008154407365052

Enjoy.. hehe

bp092
01-20-2007, 09:26 PM
hey Jay, haha that's crazy, I guess joe's machine can do it all huh? hopefully shoe manufacters don't get any crazy ideas and steal joe's design..

man I can't wait to finish mine, all of these videos are such a tease.. hopefully get my xylotex stuff monday and who knows where my multifunction card is :(

Dman
01-20-2007, 09:46 PM
Jay,
Where did you find the feedrates and spindle speeds for shoes? I thought cnc food was good but you beat it this time. If the shoe fits, Vcarve it.:D

Damian

PS Are you wearing these shoes to the Vectric conference?

joecnc2006
01-20-2007, 09:49 PM
man can't see it yet, says video not available at this time try again later. :(

dighsx
01-20-2007, 09:57 PM
Damian, I should were those shoes to the conference. They're pretty crappy shoes really, I found them in the garage covered in grass clippings.

Joe, yeah it's saying the same for me, nope now it's working... They must be having some problems with their servers.

joecnc2006
01-20-2007, 10:05 PM
HAHAHA. i just saw it, Jay you have a new buisiness now retread shoe's.

"Have you every thought of just throwing your Sporting wears shoes away just because you have a warn down soul? If so just send them to us to get recut. Its like having new Soul !"

www.CNCJay.com

joe

dighsx
01-20-2007, 10:11 PM
hahahaha. I've got a few other ideas in the works for my new line of video's "CNC vs. ....."

can't wait till I film the 'cnc vs road kill' video. hahaha

ccsparky
01-20-2007, 11:45 PM
Thanks Jay, you're too funny!

I was laughing when I saw the shoe then you added the following:
"Definitely do not want to do this while wearing the show, that would be a big mistake"
That really got my side hurting!

Put a little ink or paint on that shoe and you could leave your business card where ever you go ;)

sdantonio
01-21-2007, 09:15 PM
Great video Jay. My first impression was, What did he step in that he needed such a radical cleaning. I would think putting your logo in a somewhat more visible place would probably be a good idea though.

Mr.Chips
01-21-2007, 10:11 PM
Jay,
You should have cut it as a mirror image, then when you walked in the sand, mud, snow you would be spreading your advertising.:rainfro:

crocky
01-22-2007, 04:39 AM
Very good video :D


Cheers,
Bob

dighsx
01-22-2007, 09:25 PM
Made some changes and fixes to my machine today. Here's a new video documenting them: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2728258819555214906

calgrdnr
01-22-2007, 09:42 PM
Hey Jay great tips and thanks for laugh too

kent

joecnc2006
01-22-2007, 09:47 PM
Jay I like the Video's.

When I added the threaded rods, it did stiffin it up and gantry sides were perfectly straight, I debated to add the angle, because i have some, but after the rods i do not think i have a need to.

On your motor mounts, I wonder How your CNC Model 2006 would cut them out?

Thanks for your tips, I can give people the Basic machine but its people like you that help other improve it with little effort.

Thanks again, Joe

dighsx
01-22-2007, 09:53 PM
Yeah I'm wondering the same thing about the mounts Joe. I think I might cheat and have a buddy cnc them on his big mill for me. But I might try a pass or two on my machine just to see how it does. I'd think if I went slow enough it could handle it.

Thanks for the nice words guys.

DayneInfo
01-22-2007, 09:59 PM
Jay...I love your work. Cut the alluminum, of course with the camera on for the rest of us to see.

Dwayne

bp092
01-22-2007, 10:08 PM
Alum? well we would like to see that Jay. Your videos made my laugh as usual, keep up the good work.

bp092
01-22-2007, 10:11 PM
Jay, how does the plywood box work for your controller? I was just worried about heat, as heat with wood = fire. With metal I suppose it could be a safer bet. I'de love to do it out of wood just wanted the OK from someone else first before I did it. I'm a woodworker, so it's alot easier for me to fabricate something nice out of wood than metal or alum. The breaker box idea was cool but couldn't find any barebone ones without the stuff inside at home depot, and the project boxes at radio shack were too small. If all else fails I will just use a mini itx case.

dighsx
01-23-2007, 08:08 AM
I haven't had any problems with using a wood box. Check out the first post of this thread: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22192 In the pictures you can see I've got 4 holes for 4 100cfm fans. 2 blow in from the top and two blow out the bottom. And if you feel the air coming out it's always cold. I also mounted my gecko's on some AL and used heat sink paste to really transfer the heat.

Here's a closer look at the inside of my power supply/controller box. You can see 2 of the fans up at the top and the on the right are the gecko's on the AL I was talking about. Also note that the AL that they're on is about 3/8ths of an inch raised up, so I get air under it.

Use wood it's easy to work with and chicks dig it.... hehe

If you need any more info or want to see a different angle shot just let me know.

bp092
01-23-2007, 01:00 PM
thanks Jay, I like your Baltic birch box. I will try what you suggested. Your video was helpful by the way and you were right about the dremel on the pipe holes. They were a bit too tight, dremel with a tiny drum sander bit really made them go in perfect. Quick question for anyone in general, do you ever for see a fire from one of these machines or keep a fire extinguisher near by? I know it sounds over kill but I have seen a cnc router start a fire before. (a commercial one though).
Do your geckos allow limit switches to go directly into them or e-stops? Also do you have cable carriers or something? I never see wires really in your videos.

bp092
01-23-2007, 01:01 PM
also do you have a photo of the inside of the lower part the box (electronics) curious to see.

dighsx
01-23-2007, 01:25 PM
Oddly enough I don't. But other then the back of the panel and the two lower fans there really isn't anything in there. I'll see if I can get you a picture.

dighsx
01-23-2007, 05:15 PM
Well I changed out the bolts the adjust the bearing plates on the x and y axis today. I got some 3 inch full thread 5/16ths bolts and put two nuts and a washer on the outside so I could lock the bolts in place once I got the plates adjusted right. The second nut was a little over kill but I once I tighten the nut closest to the machine I then locked it in place with the second nut. For the cost of the extra nuts and knowing that they the bolts WILL NOT move it's worth it.

Here are two pics to show what I'm talking about.

bp092
01-23-2007, 05:19 PM
Smart move, was wondering if those would always stay put. Love the bobble head man. I remember awhile back seeing it randomly looking at cnc videos on google video a waaays back and asked joe if it was someone he knew :). You were messing with your z and y making his head bobble showing how smooth joes design was. :)

bp092
01-23-2007, 05:22 PM
By the way, have you cut anything 2.5d yet? Or done some flipping of stock to make it appear as if you cut it 3d? I was really hoping to utilize such a large 6+ inches on the z to cut corbels and decorative onlays and hadn't seen anyone on here do anything like that. And some day down the road would love to learn more about cnc and get into adding a 4th axis on a later machine and never have to do turnings by hand or outsource them ever again heh.

dighsx
01-23-2007, 06:41 PM
I've done some 2.5 stuff and I've got Vectrics new software Cut3D which will let you do 3D stuff by flipping it around. It's pretty cool software: http://www.vectric.com/WebSite/Vectric/cut3d/c3d_index.htm

Once I get my new motors mounted and get a little time I plan on playing with the 3D stuff more. I'd really like to learn how to do some simple 3D cad work. I've got that on the list of things to do this year.

bp092
01-23-2007, 07:55 PM
looks cook.. I've seen stuff done on a 3axis machine that you'de think were done on a true 3d machine (maybe 5 ax I dono) with flipping and jigs.. I guess the only limit is your tooling ability and your programming creativity.

David Da Costa
01-23-2007, 08:02 PM
Yes, I have cut3d too, its very cool as is there v-carve

ccsparky
01-24-2007, 08:05 AM
As always thanks for the video, it reminded me to put my threaded rod back into the Z-Axis carriage!

dighsx
01-30-2007, 09:02 AM
Hey here's what I want to build next: http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2007/01/diy_robot_ride.html

joecnc2006
01-30-2007, 09:14 AM
Hey here's what I want to build next: http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2007/01/diy_robot_ride.html

thats pretty cool, get dizzy after that, just don't eat 1st. Lets see who on here will build it first... lol

Joe

ezgoin
01-30-2007, 12:38 PM
Not so sure I'd be willing to have a robotic arm throw me around with my head inches from a concrete floor. Otherwise it looked like fun :)

bp092
01-30-2007, 01:19 PM
Hey here's what I want to build next: http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2007/01/diy_robot_ride.html

I hope he trusts the operator/computer/machine, at a few points in the vid he was very close from hitting his head :confused:

bp092
01-30-2007, 01:20 PM
thats pretty cool, get dizzy after that, just don't eat 1st. Lets see who on here will build it first... lol

Joe

good luck trying to get your shop insured after having one of those inside :)

dighsx
01-30-2007, 02:21 PM
After seeing how close his head got to the floor you wouldn't see me getting on it. What really scared me was those little kids in the backgroud. You think they took it for a spin?

OSHA would have a thing or two to say if they saw this video.

dighsx
01-31-2007, 09:24 AM
Had a few requests to show my power supply and controller setup so here's a new video showing that stuff: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7322359549542821529

Note: I mis-spoke in the middle saying there was a good guide about steppers and power supplies, I said you can get it at cncdrive but I meant geckodrive (http://www.geckodrive.com/photos/Step_motor_basics.pdf)

One other thing, it's a 33000uf cap rated for 75V

David Da Costa
01-31-2007, 09:47 AM
Another great video Jay!

dighsx
01-31-2007, 09:52 AM
Thanks. My wife says I do things like that well because I'm not afraid to look stupid. I'm not sure if that's a compliment or not? hehe

David Da Costa
01-31-2007, 09:55 AM
It's a matter of perspective ;)

I am in the middle of building a power supply, so I know what you mean about finding clear instructions, but I think I have it figured out.

Mr.Chips
01-31-2007, 11:05 AM
Good job on your Control Box.
Did you put a filter at the input side, couldn't tell from the video? Lots of dust around.

Hager

joecnc2006
01-31-2007, 11:41 AM
Another great video Jay!

Yup Yup !

sdantonio
01-31-2007, 12:59 PM
Hi Jay,

Great video and tips. Hope the international union of land surveyors has a good sence of humor too :).

dighsx
01-31-2007, 01:23 PM
Hager, nope not filters on the intake side. Maybe I should be so far I haven't had any dust build up in there or note.

Steven, Yeah I wonder if they'll come bust my knee-caps? I wonder if land surveyors have to ask for directions, or do they always know where they are?

surveyors wife: Honey maybe you should pull over and ask for directions
surveyor: No I know right were I am
surveyors wife: But we've been driving around for hours in circles
surveyor: Shut up, I'm surveying the land.

If they weren't going to get me before I'm sure they will now. hehe

joecnc2006
01-31-2007, 02:16 PM
Hi Jay,

Great video and tips. Hope the international union of land surveyors has a good sence of humor too :).

hey now your talking about my profession.. LOL :D
Civil Engineering and Land Surveying..... (Nope no union) State regulated.

Joe

RUPTAIN
01-31-2007, 03:34 PM
Whats With The Short Pants??????

joecnc2006
01-31-2007, 04:06 PM
I wonder if land surveyors have to ask for directions, or do they always know where they are?

GPS Equipment, I have set the Trimble 5700 series on the dash, and used laptop to do an overlay onto earth maps and track my position to sites within rural areas of texas.

Also useful when surveying large ranches.

so to awnser ? nope hardly ever get lost. :D

Joe

sdantonio
01-31-2007, 04:52 PM
GPS Equipment, I have set the Trimble 5700 series on the dash, and used laptop to do an overlay onto earth maps and track my position to sites within rural areas of texas.

Joe

They may not get lost, but they sure do talk funny. Their almost like the scientists I work with having their own language and all that.

The ones I usually see around here are standing there freezing on the side of the road with their little tripod and the little telescope on top. Good thing their on the side of the road... if they were is the bushes they would be mistaken for peeping toms.

Should we start up a series of Land Surveyor jokes here or do we need to start that in another thread?

Land surveyors with to much time on their hands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVzk4QapBW8

You know, I took a look on the web and couldn't find one decent land surveyor joke. That's kind of scarey in itself.

bp092
01-31-2007, 05:01 PM
Cool video man, thanks for the information. You speak well and always give people are the zone something to laugh about. I think the shoe topped it off though, that one will be hard to beat.

joecnc2006
01-31-2007, 05:02 PM
They may not get lost, but they sure do talk funny. Their almost like the scientists I work with having their own language and all that.

The ones I usually see around here are standing there freezing on the side of the road with their little tripod and the little telescope on top. Good thing their on the side of the road... if they were is the bushes they would be mistaken for peeping toms.

Should we start up a series of Land Surveyor jokes here or do we need to start that in another thread?

Land surveyors with to much time on their hands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVzk4QapBW8

You know, I took a look on the web and couldn't find one decent land surveyor joke. That's kind of scarey in itself.


hahaha, they are using old equipment an old nikon, gotta use GPS, Here this is more like it. They Have the Same Equipment i have Trimble GPS 5700 series.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_X3dqDRXhM

joe

gtschance
01-31-2007, 06:08 PM
Hey Jay, great stuff!

Just for the record.

Your torroidal transformer steps the 120 Volt AC DOWN to 50-ish AC (the 50-ish number is based on what you said).

The bridge rectifier (which should be next in line), takes the Alternating Current [AC - goes negative and positive] and basically flips the negative going portion of the AC voltage and makes it all positive - it is not DC yet. As I think I saw that you are using what is called a "Full Wave Bridge Rectifier," the output woud be then called "Full Wave Rectified AC." The original AC wave form looks a little like a spring on its side. The "rectified" AC waveform looks like you cut the spring in half and then intertwined it (would not actually work but maybe it gives a mind picture). If you took a bunch of "m" 's together like mmmmmmmm, it looks a little like that.

You then feed the rectified AC to the Capacitor. The capacitor acts like a surge tank. It will smooth out the "humps" in the waveform and hence you get "unregulated DC." Generally a good transformer (with the right wattage or VA - volt amps rating), bridge and capacitor combination results in DC with not to much "ripple." A change the input AC (house current outlet) voltage does cause the DC to follow in line.

With an unregulated supply, especially when you put a high amperage load on it, it will generally respond with MORE voltage ripple than when lightly loaded. Ripple is generally very bad for computer and CNC stuff so operating below the limits of your power supply is best. That is why we generally build power supplies two or three times as large as we technically need - to keep away from ripple.

Thankfully, much of the USA has good electrical power that does not surge or sink in voltage too much. Unfortunately there are lightning surges and brownouts that could cause problems. Without at least good surge protection, it is probably best not to operate when such conditions are apparent or might happen. The might happen is the gotcha - if we could truly predict that.....

Where it is common to see lower voltage (or variable) is when there are too many devices on the same circuit. Also, running high current devices - like say a 120V dust collector on the same circuit as your CNC controller - is NOT recommended.

Again, I enjoy your videos and posts immensely.

Regards,
George

joecnc2006
02-12-2007, 09:45 AM
Jay,

We are starting to miss the video's... LOL

dighsx
02-12-2007, 10:01 AM
I've been under the weather the last week or so. Almost ready to add my new motors. Had a buddy machine them for me. Just need to get some screws and wire things up. I've got my new 1/2-8 screws to put on too.

joecnc2006
02-12-2007, 10:38 AM
Sorry to hear that hope you are feeling better. Look forward to the Mod's you machine is going to scream.

bp092
02-12-2007, 12:33 PM
sweet jay, I can't wait to see the new stuff, you are very creative with your machine..

dighsx
02-12-2007, 01:32 PM
Do you mean creative like carving a shoe or creative like thinking of good ideas? Hmmm now that I think about it, maybe you shouldn't answer.. hehe

Jason Marsha
02-12-2007, 04:50 PM
Lets start really simple (no shoes), like with a video of the motors being tested.
Things like max rapid positioning speed and so on.:) :)

Jason

dighsx
02-14-2007, 08:40 AM
Got my mounts back from my buddy. He did a great job machining them. He's got this huge cnc'd milling machine that cut the aluminum like it was butter.

You can't beat having friends with lots of cool toys that you can use too.

Swing over to www.cncjay.com for a few more pictures.

Now I gotta get this bad boys mounted up and the new screws on the machine. Then I'll make a video of it in action. If I think of it I'll shot some video of me aligning things up so people can see that end of things.

ccsparky
02-14-2007, 08:51 AM
Got my mounts back from my buddy. He did a great job machining them. He's got this huge cnc'd milling machine that cut the aluminum like it was butter.

You can't beat having friends with lots of cool toys that you can use too.

Swing over to www.cncjay.com for a few more pictures.

Now I gotta get this bad boys mounted up and the new screws on the machine. Then I'll make a video of it in action. If I think of it I'll shot some video of me aligning things up so people can see that end of things.

Nice!! That ought to make you feel better!
Can't wait to see the video! :)

sdantonio
02-14-2007, 12:22 PM
Nice mounts, they look much more solid that the MDF.

dighsx
02-14-2007, 02:37 PM
Yeah you really notice a big difference between MDF and aluminum. I thought about making the mounts out of plastic but they've got some much torque and weigh so much more I figured I'd better step up to aluminum.

bp092
02-14-2007, 03:11 PM
Jay,

How much did they set you back or would they set you back if it wasn't a friend of yours? I'm sure custom machining is pricey.

dighsx
02-14-2007, 03:17 PM
The aluminum cost me about 35 bucks. As for machining cost I have no idea. You could make them by hand really. You could cut the sides on a table saw and the mounting plates you could drill on a drill press. The hardest part would be the pocket for the bearing. But I'm sure someone could figure out how to do that.

sdantonio
02-16-2007, 03:19 PM
The aluminum cost me about 35 bucks. As for machining cost I have no idea. You could make them by hand really. You could cut the sides on a table saw and the mounting plates you could drill on a drill press. The hardest part would be the pocket for the bearing. But I'm sure someone could figure out how to do that.

I can tell you from experience that a Forstner Bit won't work well at all in aluminum. In the event that any one else wanted to give it a try and repeat my mistake.

bp092
02-16-2007, 03:24 PM
I can tell you from experience that a Forstner Bit won't work well at all in aluminum. In the event that any one else wanted to give it a try and repeat my mistake.

:( I know from experience on joes build

sdantonio
02-16-2007, 03:24 PM
When I get around to mounting my nema 32's I plan to start out with a plywood mount rather than just jumping straight into the aluminum. The ply will have considerable more strangth than the MDF, but will be just as wasy to work. I figure I can get considerably more strength is I put holes completely through from top to bottom and mount using threaded rod instead of bolts.

bp092
02-16-2007, 03:26 PM
When I get around to mounting my nema 32's I plan to start out with a plywood mount rather than just jumping straight into the aluminum. The ply will have considerable more strangth than the MDF, but will be just as wasy to work. I figure I can get considerably more strength is I put holes completely through from top to bottom and mount using threaded rod instead of bolts.

ever consider just using hdpe? :rainfro:

sdantonio
02-16-2007, 04:01 PM
HDPE is the replacement after the plywood (unless I see a real need for Al which I'm still hoping I don't have to resort to). But I will still drill all the way through and use threaded rod for the added strength. If I'm reading the plans and instructions right, I think Joe taps two holes and threads into the HDPE in one end for the motor and the other to mount it to the bearing holder. I don't think those are through holes. I have more skill in working the ply than the HDPE, and I think the HDPE made up using the router will look nicer than made using saws and Forstner bits.

Granted, it's just a machine, but there is no reason it can't look nice too. The whole router mounting brackets and front plates will be replaced with HDPE as one of my first projects too. I was going to rebuild the while z-axis, but I found out how hard it was to mount the gantry single handed, so I'm just doing the two from plates and the motor mount brackets. Picked up some nice red HDPE on ebay at a good price, I think the color will look nice against the silver-gray of the machine.

Jay C
02-16-2007, 05:39 PM
Just a quick note. they are NEMA 34 not 32 as it corresponds to the spacing of the frame mounting holes from center. In other words, a NEMA 23 is approx 23mm from on hole to center or 46mm from hole to hole. Just some useless trivia I suppose :)


FWIW,
Jay

dighsx
02-16-2007, 05:58 PM
I thought about using hdpe but when I looked at the new motors and saw they have over 4 times the torque I really started to wonder how it would hold up. When you start talking about 760oz motors that are getting 54Vdc at 15amps you're really starting to talk about some serious power.

ger21
02-16-2007, 06:02 PM
Drill the aluminum with a hole saw, slightly smaller than the finished size. Then, take a larger piece of MDF, and drill the correct size hole with the forstner bit. Bolt the aluminum to the mdf through the motor mounting holes, and use a router table with a flush trimming bit to clean up the hole in the aluminum to the finished size.

Madclicker
02-16-2007, 06:36 PM
Just a quick note. they are NEMA 34 not 32 as it corresponds to the spacing of the frame mounting holes from center. In other words, a NEMA 23 is approx 23mm from on hole to center or 46mm from hole to hole. Just some useless trivia I suppose :)


FWIW,
Jay

I've always thought the nema number referred to the frame size, not the mounting holes. I also thought it was in inches not mm.

dighsx
02-16-2007, 07:37 PM
Here's a good page that has the specs for all NEMA 17,23 and 34's http://www.applied-motion.com/products/servo/motors/NMseries.php#NEMA34

Click on the Nema drawing links at the top of each size to see the specs.

Madclicker
02-16-2007, 08:13 PM
Well, what is it? Bolt location, frame size, diameter, inch, metric? I think it's frame size of the motor in inches, regardless of the mount. I've seen plenty of motors with no mounting flange with nema size designations.

Here's a pdf data sheet for a "standard" 60 mm (nema 23) frame size:

nema 23 (http://www.techkits.com/SuperiorM06.pdf)

Jay C
02-17-2007, 01:21 AM
I stand corrected. Apologies, I suppose I was trying to make the frame size fit my understanding.
Jay C

myinisjap
02-17-2007, 03:32 AM
joe a quick ? would 3/8-16 lead screw work for the router or is it to small reason being i can get 10ft for $4.00

dighsx
02-17-2007, 08:15 AM
I wouldn't use anything smaller then 1/2 for the leadscrews. The x axis is a long span for 1/2 I think with 3/8ths you'd get a lot of whip.

sdantonio
02-26-2007, 01:51 PM
Hi Jay,

It looks like you used a CNC4PC breakout board in your system. In fact it looks like that same one I have (but looks from a distance can be somewhat deceiving since they all look the same to me).

Did you wire according to the attached diagram made by Jerry Clark? If so, when you set up Mach3, did you set your step and direction for the x axis as Art shows in his book (step = pin 2, dir = pin 3), or would it be reversed. I guess the question is, is pin 2 on the lpt1 port the same as connection 2 on the CNC4PC BOB. Pics attached

dighsx
02-26-2007, 08:49 PM
Hi sdantonio, I'm on the road the tonight and tomorrow but when I get back home I'll check and let you know. I think that's how I did it but want to check before I tell ya forsure.

sdantonio
02-26-2007, 09:04 PM
Hi Jay,

Whan you get back and hane the chance to check it I have the C10 - Bidirectional Breakout Board. If you have the same one could you post anything you feel is relevent to the proper settings for Mach3 for this board and your big steppers (mine are the same size).

Thanks
Steven

dighsx
02-28-2007, 10:24 AM
I checked and you're settings are the same as my other then I have my x axis flipped. So it goes in the other direction. This has more to do with just the where my machine is in the shop and how I am oriented to it.

As for other settings and tips. If you can get it all wired up you're rolling. I haven't hooked up any estops, limits or charge pumps. I'm sure I should hook up an estop more sooner then later.

I'm working on mounting my motors as we speak. I've got the z just about done and I'll move to the x next. Did you make your own motor mounts? Let me know and I can see if my buddy would cut you a set for the bigger nema 34's.

One other thing I did was I bought bigger lovejoy couplers. I started looking at the torque rating and thought it might be smart to get some bigger ones for the bigger motors. The ones I got were a wee bit bigger then I thought they'd be. But they look really cool. I'll take some pics later today and post them up.

joecnc2006
02-28-2007, 10:34 AM
Looking forward to see how the machine does, you will have the ultimate upgrades on yours, than other have done.

I have to admitt also i have not done the e-stop or limit switches either, just have not had the time to get around to it, and has worked good without them, but should be done none the less, and home switches would be good.

Joe

dighsx
02-28-2007, 10:43 AM
Ok just got the z axis done. Here's a shot of everything mounted. I put the old coupler in the shot so you'd get an idea of scale.

So far I'm really impressed with these new motors. They seem like they're way smoother then the old Xyoltex one's I had on there.

Ok off to work on the x axis. Check in later.

joecnc2006
02-28-2007, 10:58 AM
Ok just got the z axis done. Here's a shot of everything mounted. I put the old coupler in the shot so you'd get an idea of scale.

So far I'm really impressed with these new motors. They seem like they're way smoother then the old Xyoltex one's I had on there.

Ok off to work on the x axis. Check in later.

Wow, can we say "LOVE-JOY" (happy happy joy joy) looks real good. that machine is going to be spanking soon.

Yea not sure what to say about all that Xyoltex stuff, i think maybe their system is good for small machines but is limited on this type of machine.

dighsx
02-28-2007, 11:10 AM
Nice to see there are some Ren & Stimpy fans still out there. I should look and see if you can get them on DVD.

Yeah those LoveJoy's are pretty cool. When I ordered them I read that the outside dia. was 1.75 but didn't really think about it. Then I got them and my eyes bugged out. I ran down to see if they'd even fit, and they're perfect.

As for the Xylotex stuff I think it might just come down to you get what you pay for. I'm not knocking Xylotex but my new motors cost almost double what their controller, power supply 269oz motor kit cost. Hell my power supply and motors cost more then then it did to build this machine and that was even with you cutting the parts.

I really hope that with these new motors my machine will just laugh at anything I slap down for it to cut.

sdantonio
02-28-2007, 12:36 PM
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002NY8XA/km-20/ref=nosim

The first few seasons are out.

I didn't know lovejoy made bigger couplers, I'll have to look into those.

Thanks for the info on the settings. After having a few boards I was working on fry out on me recently I'm just a little hesitant to turn the power on a set of gecko's without tripple checking everything I can. Hopefully I'll get mine turned on this weekend. Unfortunately I also have a break job to do on the truck :(. If you could get a price from your buddy that would be great. I'll also look into cutting them on the unit once it's up and running. I figure I'll start off with a 1/2 in birch plywood set (with the threaded rods running completely through the mount). Stronger then MDF by far, but no where near Aluminum.

sdantonio
02-28-2007, 12:50 PM
Jay,

Have you seen this? Jerry Clark wrote it up a while ago.

dighsx
03-01-2007, 09:16 AM
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002NY8XA/km-20/ref=nosim

The first few seasons are out.

I didn't know lovejoy made bigger couplers, I'll have to look into those.

Thanks for the info on the settings. After having a few boards I was working on fry out on me recently I'm just a little hesitant to turn the power on a set of gecko's without tripple checking everything I can. Hopefully I'll get mine turned on this weekend. Unfortunately I also have a break job to do on the truck :(. If you could get a price from your buddy that would be great. I'll also look into cutting them on the unit once it's up and running. I figure I'll start off with a 1/2 in birch plywood set (with the threaded rods running completely through the mount). Stronger then MDF by far, but no where near Aluminum.

Hey I talked with my buddy and he'll make Nema 34 mounts like mine for $50 a mount + shipping. He's thinking about making Nema 23 mounts too. PM me if you or anyone else for that matter is interested.

sdantonio
03-01-2007, 11:14 AM
Hey I talked with my buddy and he'll make Nema 34 mounts like mine for $50 a mount + shipping. He's thinking about making Nema 23 mounts too. PM me if you or anyone else for that matter is interested.

I will definitely keep that in mind, let me see who the ply ones work first. I should have enough extra room so that I can make solid sides instead of having the center cutout. That should go a long way to strengthening it. $50 per mount, it that one side of is the the package of 2 sides + bearing support. If it is the latter then that is a damn good price. I'm also looking to see if I can snag a few spring style couplers instead of the lovejoys (Helical Beam Shaft Couplings or Servomotor Double-Disc Shaft Couplings mcmaster-carr page 1117, depends on which ones I can snagg fromt he next scrapped out machine at work).

sdantonio
03-01-2007, 11:40 AM
Jay, what did you decide on the final size of your mounts. I know the 3.5 in dimension is dictated by the base of the motors, but what height did you use? I figured a minimum of 4 inches, but I was wondering if you went bigger than that.

dighsx
03-02-2007, 07:41 AM
Steven, my mount sides are 4.5" high. We made them that way so I'd have lots of room for whatever couplers I used and any nuts.

As for what's included in the $50 per mount price, you'd get the two sides and the bearing plate, with the bearing already installed (1/2 inside dia on the bearing) and the screws needed to bolt the mount together. All you'd need would be the 4 - 1/4-20 socket head cap screws to mount it to your machine.

To be honest I was a bit surprised by the price being so low. It's not super cheap but then again you'd have mounts made out of 3/4 Aluminum. If you look around for at mount prices most are double this price. I looked at Shearline’s site and they want 100+ per mount and I think that was for nema 23’s. He's been working on nema 23 mounts made out of 1/2 inch Aluminum. Not sure what price he's shooting for on those but I'd imagine it'd be less then the nema 34 mounts. If any one needs more info pm me.

dighsx
03-03-2007, 09:11 PM
Just a quick update. Got the new motors mounted and running and the new 1/2-8 2 start screws. All I'll say is wow! I'll take some pics and some video tomorrow. You can't beat having more power and those screws make a big difference.

ccsparky
03-03-2007, 11:25 PM
Jay,

Those are some pretty impressive mounts!
Can't wait to see the video and pics!

sdantonio
03-04-2007, 03:13 PM
Just a quick update. Got the new motors mounted and running and the new 1/2-8 2 start screws. All I'll say is wow! I'll take some pics and some video tomorrow. You can't beat having more power and those screws make a big difference.

Jay,

If you stumble across a source for your 1/2-8-2 longer than 6 ft please let me know. I have found that the stumbling block for me the that I need a 7.5 ft rod for my y-axis and I've only been able to find the cheeper acme 1/2-10 in that length (actually 12ft). Most places won't ship it over 6ft/ The other alternative I've been thinking about is the 3/4-5 single start stuff.

ger21
03-04-2007, 03:22 PM
If you stumble across a source for your 1/2-8-2 longer than 6 ft please let me know.
www.nookind.com

sdantonio
03-04-2007, 08:36 PM
Gerry Thanks again.

Jay, it just occured to me. Stick a pen or a fine tipped sharpie in your machine, put a piece of paper on the table and draw out a bunch of squares and circles of various sizes. Check the squares for dimension and check the angles to see how truely 90 degrees they are. If the circles are inside the squares and if the diameters are the same as the length of the squares sides, then that is an internal self sheck on the circles diameter. Also check the circles for roundness either by eye or with a compass. This would give you some idea if the machine is tracking true and might give you ome indication if you are loosing any accuracy with the new leadscrew. I'm only suggesting this because someone in another thread was mentioning that his "Joe machine" is very off from true. 90 deg angles are comming out very off, etc. Also, you once questioned if you would loose any accuracy in going to a leadscerew with lower TPI.

joecnc2006
03-04-2007, 08:58 PM
Gerry Thanks again.

Jay, it just occured to me. Stick a pen or a fine tipped sharpie in your machine, put a piece of paper on the table and draw out a bunch of squares and circles of various sizes. Check the squares for dimension and check the angles to see how truely 90 degrees they are. If the circles are inside the squares and if the diameters are the same as the length of the squares sides, then that is an internal self sheck on the circles diameter. Also check the circles for roundness either by eye or with a compass. This would give you some idea if the machine is tracking true and might give you ome indication if you are loosing any accuracy with the new leadscrew. I'm only suggesting this because someone in another thread was mentioning that his "Joe machine" is very off from true. 90 deg angles are comming out very off, etc. Also, you once questioned if you would loose any accuracy in going to a leadscerew with lower TPI.

to adjust the machine square, you adjust the two front adjuster bolts together and the two rear adjustment bolts on the Rt.side of the gantry this moves it forward or backwards slightly.

Thats the same way you adjust the Z Axis up and down by the two left then the two right.

Joe

bp092
03-04-2007, 09:40 PM
I got mine fixed, it's not perfect but nearly am I as a manual woodworker, but it's better than me so I'm totally A ok with that. (thats just to clarify)

Sorry, sometimes I freak out when things don't go 100%, but Joe knows all too much of that and I thank him for putting up with it :D. And he is always still generous to help.

Still can't budge tips on the new joe model though :(

glnth
03-04-2007, 11:39 PM
You might look at this site. He has a nice way of checking for square.
Note: You might have to logon to get. I'm not sure if this link will let you through.
http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/messages/9/3316.html

sdantonio
03-20-2007, 12:15 PM
Jay,

how are the 2 start screws working out. I'm thinking of eventually switchine when I make the first major update (I guess that would be Joe v.2.0). I looked through Nook and mcmaster-carr. Have you found anyone that has standard hex nuts for the 2 start precission screws? I'm trying to figure out things like, how to preload them, if I don't have hex nuts to hang a compression spring off the free end with and stuff like that.

joecnc2006
03-20-2007, 12:23 PM
I also waiting to see how jay did his as well as David.

Rick, was the first one to use a two start, he used 1/2-8 2 start which gave him 4tpi. he joged his machine at a little over 300ipm. he made his own antibacklash and end clamps to secure it.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23546

Joe

Depdog
03-22-2007, 08:21 AM
Dont know if this helps or not, but here is a link to some 2 start threaded inserts and mounting flanges.

http://www.roton.com/Threaded_Mount_Nut.aspx?line=Hi-Lead

Glenn

dighsx
03-23-2007, 06:46 PM
I haven't forgotten you guys. I'm in the middle of buying a house, organizing a users group conference, doing crap for work and cutting parts for a new machine.

I'm real happy with the 1/2-8 two starts. I've got some video I need to upload. I'm also going to start a build of a new version of the Joe2006 (I'll have to think of some new name) Been working with a friend of mine who's a mechanical engineer to improve upon Joes already great design.

Once I get caught up I'll post up some stuff.

sdantonio
03-24-2007, 12:13 AM
Thanks Glenn and Joe.

Joe, that is actually what John (JGRO) did in his machines. He used single start screws, but made his own AB Nuts from delrin blocks just like Rick. I was hoping for a metal nut, but then I'm spoiled my using your method.

joecnc2006
03-24-2007, 12:26 AM
I haven't forgotten you guys. I'm in the middle of buying a house, organizing a users group conference, doing crap for work and cutting parts for a new machine.

I'm real happy with the 1/2-8 two starts. I've got some video I need to upload. I'm also going to start a build of a new version of the Joe2006 (I'll have to think of some new name) Been working with a friend of mine who's a mechanical engineer to improve upon Joes already great design.

Once I get caught up I'll post up some stuff.


JJM7 = Joe & Jay's Model 2007....... :):)

Depdog
03-24-2007, 01:43 AM
O.k. so bring on the drawings and the pics. This time I want to be able to cut the parts myself once I get the Joe2006 built!

Glenn

ccsparky
03-24-2007, 10:25 AM
I haven't forgotten you guys. I'm in the middle of buying a house, organizing a users group conference, doing crap for work and cutting parts for a new machine.

I'm real happy with the 1/2-8 two starts. I've got some video I need to upload. I'm also going to start a build of a new version of the Joe2006 (I'll have to think of some new name) Been working with a friend of mine who's a mechanical engineer to improve upon Joes already great design.

Once I get caught up I'll post up some stuff.

Jay,

Glad to see all is well! Congratulations on the new house! But honestly man, you can't let a small thing like that stand in the way of your new machine ;)

Really excited to see your progress... I figured you would pop up a new video all of a sudden with the new motors cutting 1" plate steel, or maybe something small like cutting a steel toe boot in half!

JJM7 has a ring to it, sounds almost industrial! :)

Good luck with the conference, sounds like it will be fun. I wanted to attend but my son has to go and get married the first week of June, always something... na, just kidding, I'm getting a new daughter, she's a kick!
Hopefully next year.

How many people from the Joe's forum are attending?

Bob

joecnc2006
03-24-2007, 09:15 PM
How many people from the Joe's forum are attending?

Bob

I wish i could go but i just can't get away, BTW i have V-CarvePro and the PhotoCarve, next on the list is Cut3D, their software is great for the money for sure, and sooooo easy to use.

Joe

joecnc2006
03-27-2007, 12:07 PM
Hey Jay, Hows the machine running now? If i remember you are cutting out new parts with it?

Joe

calgrdnr
04-16-2007, 12:59 PM
Hey Jay,

Whats up... hows the new setup and new machine ?
Isn't it time for a new Video installment of
"CNC Router according to Jay?"
:D

I hope all is going well and hope we get a update soon ....

Kent

dighsx
04-16-2007, 02:08 PM
Hey guys I'm still out here just working like a dog getting this conference off the ground. I've got some new video to upload just gotta get the time to do it. Hoping things will ease up once the conference is over in a couple of weeks.

bp092
04-16-2007, 08:31 PM
Hey jay, looking forward to the next installment of your video collection! Next time make the conference in New York City, that way joe can hop on the train and fiddle with my machine and see if he can't get the beast in shape! lol

ccsparky
04-16-2007, 08:58 PM
Hey guys I'm still out here just working like a dog getting this conference off the ground. I've got some new video to upload just gotta get the time to do it. Hoping things will ease up once the conference is over in a couple of weeks.

Hey Jay, we miss you man...

Hope all is going well with the new house! I sure hope you plan on doing another conference next year, I would really like to attend!
Have fun and don't work to hard!

Bob

ccsparky
05-04-2007, 07:48 AM
Hello Jay,

How did the Vectric Users Group Conference go and how's the machine?
Hope you took plenty of pictures and videos! :D

Bob

joecnc2006
05-04-2007, 09:00 AM
here is a link to it on their forum.

http://www.vectric.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1643

joe

ccsparky
05-04-2007, 09:19 AM
here is a link to it on their forum.

http://www.vectric.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1643

joe

Very nice, thanks Joe!

dighsx
05-11-2007, 05:10 PM
Hey guys how's it going? Just posted some conference pics I took over on my site: http://www.cncjay.com/photo_gallery.cfm?cat_id=8

I'm moving this weekend and will be without web for a little bit but once I get moved in and back up I've got a bunch of stuff to post up about my machine. A couple of new videos to get up too. Talk to ya in a week or so.

calgrdnr
06-06-2007, 09:40 AM
Hey Jay,

Its been one heck of a long week.... :stickpoke the new rocky movie might come out before your next update :devious: Just thought I would remind you we are trying to wait patiently... (wedge)

kb18951452
06-27-2007, 03:27 PM
Hey Jay,

Its been one heck of a long week.... :stickpoke the new rocky movie might come out before your next update :devious: Just thought I would remind you we are trying to wait patiently... (wedge)

personally, i am going nuts

kb18951452
07-05-2007, 02:33 PM
OK

I am completly confused, Maybe someone can give me a little info?

Still don't know much about electricity. I am planning on daisychaining computer PSU as my power supply. The question i am having is, How many amps am i going to need?

I am gonna use gecko 201's and they say i need to have 67% of the phase current of my motors. Is that all the motors combines?

I am confused.

Does AMP add up?
Meaning, if i have 3 5 amp motors, do i need 15 * .67 amps for my power?

ClaudioG
09-15-2007, 09:38 PM
Hey Jay, are you still around??

Those videos of yours were great and we've been waiting for your post house move update.

Cheers,

Claudio