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TEK73
02-21-2014, 02:31 AM
Hi

Wonder if someone here might be able to help me.
I need a motor for a DIY router table, and I think that it should be possible to build one using the same equitment you are using when building CNC machines.
The tought behind this is that I actually only need a motor, and notbavwhole router. See attached image for how it would be mounted.

I need a motor that has 2HP or more, preferrable with some speed control, for examle 5 different speed, a rpm up to around 25000, be usable in europe (220V, 50Hz) and that it is possible to mount a chuck on.

Is this something that could be done, or am I barking up the wrong tree here?

boydage
02-21-2014, 04:40 AM
Yep. Or go larger to 2.2kw. But shop around this link is just an example. I have one its great! CNC Four Bearing ER11 1 5KW Air COOLE Spindle Motor and Matching Inverter | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-FOUR-BEARING-ER11-1-5KW-AIR-COOLE-SPINDLE-MOTOR-AND-MATCHING-INVERTER-/251032652684?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a72b64b8c)

TEK73
02-21-2014, 08:21 AM
That solution looks interesting.
Are you using yours as a table router, with regular user bits?

BTW, it seems to as if all 2.2kw listed are water cooled. There also seems to be much difference in price between items that at first glance looks similar...
Some of the 2.2kw watercooled units, like this one:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/120711692759
(From same seller it seems)
Are lower priced than the one linked to.
Is watercooled a vaiable option?

KJL
02-21-2014, 09:08 PM
How about e.g. Woodpeckers Precision Router Lift V2v at Precision Router Lift V2 (http://www.woodpeck.com/prlv2.html)

TEK73
02-22-2014, 10:33 AM
I decided to go with a 2.2 KW water cooled spindel.
This will be mounted in a DIY lift solution inspiered from the one shown in the picture below.

boydage
02-25-2014, 03:36 PM
Nice!!! I think you will do well with that and 2.2Kw should be enough to whip around most cutters with ease. I went air cooled because I was too lazy to hook up a water cooling system.

Darn the man who pointed me to Woodpeckers. I have about $500 worth of stuff on my wish list now..................

Regards
Boyd

TEK73
03-07-2014, 04:15 PM
Hi

God my spindel, a watercooled super heavy 2.2 KW with a Nowforever inverter.
The inverter has a ferrit included that obvious should be used between the inverter and the spindle. There is a diagram that explains something - but in chineese..
Anyone know about a translation for this diagram?

I assume I can use this diagram for the wiring between the inverter and the spindle:
Build Your Tools ? View topic - 2.2KW Spindle wiring (http://www.buildyourtools.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2335)
And that, in addition, pole 4 can be connected to E to ensure that the spindle is earthed as well.

Any comments?

TEK73
03-07-2014, 06:12 PM
Ha!

Got it working!
Connected everything, turned it on - voila, success :-) It's spinning quiet as a little bee. Have to say that this is looking very promising.
But woow, that spindel (2.2 kw water cooled) is one heavy beast. I get supriced by the wheight every time I lift it up.

I havent got the water pump yet, so I have only tested that it spins up on different speeds for a few seconds to ensure that everything seems to be OK.

TEK73
03-08-2014, 02:35 AM
Hello again....

I wonder if some of you folks could be able to help me in the right direction.
The VFD with my spindle looks fine. It also have a control panel that can be placed in a control board.
However, for my usage it's overkill and not very practical.

What I actually want is just a main switch and one "wheel" with a number of steps (3?) that sets the speed of the spindle to predefined values. For example 8000, 16000 and 22000 rpm.

Anyone know if it is possible to control the inverter in such a way? And if so, what is the principals behind the solution?

boydage
03-08-2014, 03:35 PM
Not sure what inverter you have but mine has a 10v DC supply. This 10v can then be changed by an external control unit, (possibly a variable resistor) and put back into the inverter 0-10v at another point which will control the speed of your spindle. For example 5v may run your spindle at half speed what ever that is.

There are settings in your inverter that need changing too enable this function.

I spent about 8 hours with a PWM to Analog converter so I could control my spindle speed with my computer running Mach3. I had it all set up and was getting the correct output from the converter, 0-10v variable. But the spindle wouldn't start at all so I gave up. But please let me know how you get on. There is a bunch of info on the net about this subject and I only have a small amount of the correct stuff. Boyd

TEK73
03-08-2014, 05:05 PM
Ahh, great i put!
I will look into that to see if Inhave that option.
(I have a Nowforever E100S)

TEK73
03-09-2014, 01:12 AM
I tried to see if I was able to control the inverter yeasterday, but there is something I dont understand yet.
From looking at the docs it seems to me as you activate a switch by shorcutting the given switch and com.
So, to for example actevating x1 you should connect x1 and com.

From the manual I got the impression that activating x1 should send a start signal to the spindle, but if I try it nothing happens.
I assume that there is some kind of pre-condition that have to be met to be able to control the inverter, but so far I have not been able to identify what that condition is.

I would be really happy if someone else that understand this better than me could give a step by step instruction that describes how I can use the switches to start the spindle.
My expectation is that I should be able to
Power on the inverter, "do something" and then by for example useing a wire, connect a switch to com and the spindle should start.

TEK73
03-09-2014, 01:38 AM
The manual: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachments/f147/125401d1296587021-2010-patriot-vfd-inverter-manual-nowforever-manual-e-100-pdf
The unit and the connection bord:

TEK73
03-09-2014, 04:15 PM
Ahh, found it. Was as I expected, something very basic that I had not done.
So, for any neewbe out there with a nowforever inverter (vfd):
this is what to do if you want an external switch to start your spindel:
1) set P0-000 to 1. This will set the command source to analog terminal control (page 28 in the manual lined to above)
2) if you now connect the com to x1 the spindle will start and continue to run until disconnected (see page 37 in the manual, this is also where you can define other functions you want to use)

Not sure yet, but from what I now have learned I assume I will be able to build a switch that starts the spindle and select between 4 different speeds. Maybe even a emergency stop...
Things just started to look very promising :-)

TEK73
03-11-2014, 09:40 AM
A quick question, if anyone sees this...

I have this stepper motor:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/281163450994?txnId=1169134081018
I want to be able to connnect two wired and make it go forward. What is the simples way to get this to happend?

TEK73
03-25-2014, 04:44 PM
Can anyone help me out a bit here?
I need to drive 2 pc fans (rated 12v, 1.44w, 0.12A) and a water pump (rated 12V, 10w - I assume that should be 0.8 or 1.2A).
The Nowforever have a 12V ouput. The manual claims that it is 20 mA.
I have tested it with the two fans, and it is able to drive them with no problem. From my understanding 20mA should equal 0.02A, meaning that based on that the12V output should in no way be able to drive the fans.

It would be great if it could drive the fans and the water pump, so that I would not need another pover supply, but I just do not get the numbers to add up.

Am I calculating something wrong? Or is there another explanation to why it is able to drive the fans? May I be able to use the 12V output to drive both the fans and the water pump?

boydage
03-25-2014, 06:53 PM
Dude - is your inverter really called Nowforever??? Gawd. And I thought I heard them all. Hey but great that it works. I did all you said and more with my Huangfanging one and got no success at all. But I have heard there is a special plugin for the software I am using so one day I will look at it again.

Hey I am not a guru but think you will have no problem running the two fans that will only draw minimum current because they wont be doing much work. So would imagine whilst running, only draw 25% of what the rating of 0.12A is. So you should have no problem running them. The water pump though might be a different story if you couple that into the same circuit as it actually has to do some proper work like moving water around. It might run but then not last long.

Why dont you grab an old 12v laptop charger from somewhere that can give a couple of amps and run them off that? Or tap into a computer nearby which will have an extra 12v output? Actually, why does the inverter have a 20mA output anyway? Oh, it might be a control voltage and not actually there for running stuff like fans off.

TEK73
03-25-2014, 09:20 PM
Yup, its calles Nowforever :-)
What you are saying about the fans sounds resonable. I have a 400w PC power supply that I might use, it's just a lot more wiring.

Tonight I have been trying to find out how I can control the inverter using a 5-position selector.
Off, speed1, speed2, speed3 and speed4.
And I actually found it out. But mostly by luck, amd after actually haven given up.


My inverter is a Nowforever D100. The chinese manual was includet. That was for a E100, not D100.
After a lot of testing I have concluded that both the included manual and the english manual above here is wrong. I startes to wonder when I found that parameter settings had possible values that was different from the once in the manual.

I found some hint in an A100 manual, and aftter a lot of trial and error - it was there. Just like that. I'm actually not sure what I did, but I got it working :-)

mactec54
03-25-2014, 09:42 PM
TEK73

You should not use the output 12v, for anything other than the control switching of the drive, you will smoke it, if you try to do anything else with the drive control voltage

If you don't put the correct settings, in the VFD for your spindle you will also smoke the drive, & damage the spindle, don't run it without the water on, you are doing damage to the spindle every time you run it without the water on

TEK73
03-26-2014, 08:41 AM
Thanks for the heads up Mactec54.
While testing I'm running the vfd without a connected spindle to check if the numbers is beeing set correcly. Is that OK or may it hurt the VFD to run without a connected spindle?

Will it harm the spindle to run without water for a few seconds (before getting hot at all?)

boydage
03-26-2014, 09:01 AM
Tek73 it sounds like you will be fine if you utilise that additional 12v supply you have. Plus you will have a bit extra if you need to run a 12v light or something. Mactec54 was nice and quick confirming the 12v from the spindle was a control voltage. 20mA is pathetic anyway.

In my view running your spindle for a few seconds will not harm it at all without water. The water cooling is not to be confused with running something dry without lubricant where damage occurs immediately. So dont stress about it going for a few seconds it would not have even gotten warm. But do get your cooling sorted asap. Mactec54 do you agree mate? Oh - its not water lubricated ceramic bearings is it?

I have no idea about harming your VFD without a load attached. I am going to ask one of the sparkies here tomorrow. If you dont hear from me then they have said no problem. I am sure I ran mine with no load when I was setting mine up. Regards

mactec54
03-26-2014, 10:57 AM
TEK73

It will not hurt to run the VFD with no output connected to the spindle, just don't turn the main power off & on to much they don't like that

boydage

This is what happens when you run the spindle with no water, you over heat the insulation, & they fail very quickly

TEK73
03-26-2014, 01:20 PM
If it is about anything releated to heat I think I'm good.
I might have run it for 30 sec total over 3-4 runs, just to verify that it was alive. No temperature change felt anywhere.
All water equipment on premise now - just missing a hose of the correct dimension.
So, no less than 10000rpm (150hz) and not over 24000 (400hz), and only switching between 150, 250, 350 and 400 hz speed + a water pump and cooling system that will engage when the power to the vfd is turned on - I think I should be good to go.

Now when I have found - by a lucky stroke - how to control the speed with a 5 position switch.
If anyone have a manual to a Nowforever D100 that would be swell...

boydage
03-26-2014, 06:43 PM
Hi Mactec. Wow. I am surprised! How long was the spindle run without water supply to cause that kind of damage? TEK73 I am sorry mate I have led you up the wrong path. I thought a few seconds would not hurt a spindle and to be honest am shocked at the picture Mactec has shown.

If that is what happens, then I would be putting in an alarm or shutoff if your water pump fails. Glad I bought an aircooled one now!

Hey Mactec have you setup a Huangfang inverter to accept the 0-10v analog control? I setup a PWM to analog converter for mach 3. I get the corresponding 0-10v linear output from the converter. But when I input it to the inverter I get nothing. I have set up the P**** settings as per manual and spent ages looking through all the settings. But, I put 10v into the inverter and no spindle movement, nothing! You seem to be a bit of a guru. Have you struck this before?

mactec54
03-26-2014, 06:58 PM
If anyone have a manual to a Nowforever D100 that would be swell...

I have the A100 & the E100 manual, but no D100 I think they are much the same as far as settings go

boydage
03-26-2014, 08:03 PM
I still love the name "Nowforever" :-)

TEK73
03-27-2014, 01:53 AM
No worry boydage, I have been aware that there might be issues with running without water - the running done was some weeks ago, and I'm pritty sure the one in the picture must have been running longer than just a few seconds.
But I'm curious about what mactec has to say. Its important to know if temperature monitoring will be good enough, or if you should add some monitoring of the waterflow and a automatic stop of the waterflow stop (quite complicated I would assume)

"I have set the p**** setting as per manual"
I'm a total novice, but in my case I had two issue:
1) I did not understand that several independent settings have to be set. One set to say what/how the vfd should be controlled and one for how it should be controlled
2) The actual settings of the unit was different from what the manual statet (even the chinese one)