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Jason Marsha
05-01-2006, 08:32 PM
After contemplating it for a while I decided to make a start at building a router that could hold at least a full sheet of plywood. this wouild be my third router but the first metal one.

I have access to 2" by 4" rectangular hollow section metal which I will use for the bearing assembly pictured, to run on. I left a space between the bottom bearings in order to support the long axis.

I also have access to lots of skate bearings(608 series) from frequent copier scrapping and the 5/16" threaded rod is cheap and strong enough to tie the whole assembly together, it also fits the bearings with minimal play.
It looks I should be using in the region of 64 bearings which will be no problem.

The solid metal bar that makes up the corners of the runner assembly is 16mm (~5/8") square and was a pain to drill even after marking the holes with a center punch. After having the drill bit wander too many times I went looking for Black & Decker's bullet point drill bits or DeWalt's pilot point bits. These bits have a tip somewhat like a brad point bit for wood but the pilot or bullet point bit will drill metal, wood or plastic.

I will get some hollow section this week to give a visual idea of how the setup will work.

It appears that gear track will be the mode of motion for the long axis which then raises the question of whether the long axis will be driven from both sides, one side or the middle.

My CAD skills are ok but I should make up for that with lots of pics.

Jason

randyf1965
05-01-2006, 08:44 PM
WOW! Looks like i is going to be a big machine if those are the linear bearings

Are you going to tie the bottom of that assembly together? Seems like it would splay out on the bottom.

Rodm1954
05-01-2006, 08:59 PM
John,
I found it better to place a couple of washers between the double bearing when I trialed it. There is a bit of play between the threaded rod and bearing and one beariing always lifted higher than the other. It is only slight but if you hold the bearings and spin the threaded rod you can feel it. The washers between the bearings spaced the bearings slightly apart and helped. Hold the bearings against a flat surface as you tighten the threaded rod and you should get a better result.

Jason Marsha
05-01-2006, 09:06 PM
The problem with tying the bottom together is that there would be no way to support the long axis. The top of the bearing assembly would be fastened to the assembly on the opposite side so there should be no problem.

Jason

randyf1965
05-01-2006, 09:11 PM
doh! yep

Jason Marsha
05-01-2006, 09:11 PM
Rod
I have also felt that movement, I was thinking however that when I tightened the whole assembly to the running surface all the bearings would at the same level together.

Jason

joecnc2006
05-01-2006, 09:14 PM
Rod
I have also felt that movement, I was thinking however that when I tightened the whole assembly to the running surface all the bearings would at the same level together.

Jason

The bearings should pull up tight to the threaded rod and have no play when tightened from both side.

Have you thought about belt drive for both sides for the X Axis?

Jason Marsha
05-01-2006, 09:28 PM
Joe
I guess I was avoiding belts but I may have to consider them if they will give me the most bang for the buck. Has anyone used belts with sucess in the forum?

Jason

spalm
05-01-2006, 11:24 PM
Benny used belts and really liked them.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6143

Steve

Jason Marsha
05-02-2006, 08:34 AM
Thanks Steve.

Jason

Jason Marsha
05-02-2006, 11:09 PM
After giving belts an examination it seems that they may be the best option for me. Belts can be rolled up and easily transported eg suitcase, that would be a bit harder with gear track. I have family due for a visit to the island soon, so I will probably have them bring the belts for me.

I like Benny's design as well as a design from Europe, I will probably rig up a hybrid of the two machines. My only concern is the belt stretching. Is there a special type of belt for this application?


Jason

spalm
05-02-2006, 11:31 PM
After thinking about this, belts do seem like the easiest and cheapest way to go. 10 feet rules out screws. Have not priced gear track, but seems expensive and hard to gear down and align. With a 5 foot wide gantry, I would think you need to drive from both sides. Use an axle at both ends, with split belts tied to the gantry. You would only need one motor that way, driving the axle in the middle, under the table.

Seems like everyone goes to SDP/SI for belts and gears.
http://www.sdp-si.com/

Dang, this seems like a fun project, especially if you are getting some of the components for “free”.

Steve

Jason Marsha
05-03-2006, 07:47 AM
Thats right Steve, SDP/SI has a very wide selection of gears, belts and pulley parts. They seem a little pricey but quality is what matters.
I will ask Benny what is the pitch of the belt he is using for his machine.

Jason

randyf1965
05-03-2006, 09:36 AM
You might want to down the belt drive doc . loads of info

http://www.sdp-si.com/D757/Libdownload.htm

Jason Marsha
05-03-2006, 09:44 AM
Thanks Randy,
Downloading as I type. I suspect this information is in one of the catalogs they sent me a while back "Handbook of Timing Belts and Pulleys". Its full of info on what belts and pulleys to use, actually I think its a bit much (information overload) :drowning: :D
I went over to Benny's thread and saw that he had used T5 , 16mm wide belts.
From reading the SDP/SI catalog the GT2 belts seem to be the best to use, I will have to check the cost first to be sure.
If the cost is right for me I will probably go for the GT2 5mm pitch, 15mm wide belt.
I think I will have fun with this project.

Jason

Jason Marsha
05-03-2006, 10:51 AM
Due to length, that belt I want is a special order. I will email them and see what they quote me.

Jason

Jason Marsha
05-05-2006, 08:30 AM
The smallest pulley recommended for this 15mm wide belt is a 18 groove pulley. If I drove the shaft with the pulley attached is driven directly with the stepper I would be moving the axis about 1.1* pi inches (27.94 * pi mm) per turn of the motor. At 500 rpm those figures translate into 1727.88 inches (43,888 mm ) per minute which seems awful fast and I suspect I would need a rather strong stepper to move the gantry back and forth even at a slower speed. It looks like lots of gearing down in order

The pulley info has pitch diameter and outside diameter listed I am not sure which to use for step calculations.

Jason

keyne
05-05-2006, 04:39 PM
Jason,
movement per rotation is effective diameter * pi. I suspect it is more than 28mm with an 18t pulley. Actually i think you forgot to multiply by pi.
550ipm doesn't sound *that* fast.. how about 1650 :)

What european design did you refer to earlier?
Regards
K

P.S. i will start a build log/planning log for my machine soon, also a belt driven design.

ShayArnett
05-05-2006, 04:43 PM
Sweet with you and Joe both working on 4x8+ designs, by the time i finish my jgro, and build joes 2006 you guys should have some nice designs to look at for expanding further.

Keep it comin!!!

bigz1
05-05-2006, 05:36 PM
How much do you think belt slipage and stretch will effect accuracy/precision on a design of this size?

Jason Marsha
05-05-2006, 10:24 PM
Jason,
movement per rotation is effective diameter * pi. I suspect it is more than 28mm with an 18t pulley. Actually i think you forgot to multiply by pi.
550ipm doesn't sound *that* fast.. how about 1650 :)

What european design did you refer to earlier?
Regards
K

P.S. i will start a build log/planning log for my machine soon, also a belt driven design.



Yes that's right I did forget to multiply by pi. This means that gearing down is a necessity.
When I find that design I will post the link.

Bigz1,
According to Benny his belts do not slip or stretch and he has had them for a while.

Shay,
Hopefully I will finish this router for a really low price so anyone with a little space can cut with the big boys

Jason

Jason Marsha
07-20-2006, 07:45 AM
After a long time I can report little progress. I have received belts and gears from sdp-si. I will mock-up the gear reduction assembly today and have some additional pics for later in the day. I may have to reduce the size of this router due to space but my intention is that it be identical, except in length, to the longer router to which this thread is dedicated.
I have altered my long rails and this will now result in having to weld some parts. I located a small mig welder and when the funds become available I will have it shipped in.

Pic 1: 28 tooth and 72 tooth gears with 1/2" bore. I ordered these gears with a 12mm bore at first, but reordered 1/2" after 12mm stainless steel rod was a bit hard to find. I know I could have gone to a machinist but it would have been probally more expensive in the end. In the end I will use them probably for the second machine so I will pay eventually.

Pic2: 100 tooth pulley belts, 15mm wide. 1/2 bore bearings, 32mm OD, 10mm wide, code 6201-2RS 1/2. I purchased the 12mm bore first and also had to reorder but they were cheap at 1.25 each. They messed up the second order however and sent 7 instead of the 10 I ordered and as my luck would have it I really wanted 8, so I am still 1 short.
I went back to order some more last night and guess what the price more than doubled to 3.26 each.
I cut the bearing holders on my JGRO. The larger one will carry the motor the inside holes will allow me to remove the motor without moving the bearings.

Jason

Jason Marsha
07-22-2006, 07:27 AM
After getting the gear reduction almost assembled I realized that my 100 tooth belts were supposed to be 105 tooth belts, I should have altered the center distance and simply forgot.

I edited the CAD file and recalculated the toolpaths in VCarve Pro and will cut them this weekend.

Having a cnc machine to cut test parts is rather great as I cannot imagine trying to mark out this stuff by hand and then drill.

Pic1: Circular pattern of holes, the bigger holes are 1/4-20 tapped and the smaller ones 10-24 tapped.

Pic2: Bearing supports. The top one has 8 extra holes around the outside for the motor support screws.

Pic3: The motor will spin the top shaft with has a 28 tooth pulley on which spins the 72 tooth and the 28 tooth below, this 28 tooth then spin the other 72 tooth on the bottom which should give me 6.25:1 reduction. I think I calculated that correctly.

The 28 tooth pulley on the middle of the final gearshaft will turn a long open ended belt that runs the length of the long axis. This shaft will extend to the other long axis to turn a 28 tooth pulley running another open ended belt. A belt on each long axis will reduce or eliminate racking.


Jason

Jason Marsha
07-23-2006, 05:03 PM
I did a quick assembly today to test the new calculated center distance and after two attempts got it right. I am not sure if the tension is right. Is there supposed to be a little give in the belt or is the belt to be very tight.


Jason

Jason Marsha
07-28-2006, 02:08 AM
Got the new gear reduction assembly done today. Used a center distance of 123mm and it works just fine.

JerryFlyGuy
07-28-2006, 11:45 AM
Jason, looks like some good progress! Is this assembly as shown the final design or are you planning to make some changes? I'm wondering about the stepper mount. Does the stepper seem pretty solidly mounted when you twist on it?

Jerry

Jason Marsha
07-28-2006, 06:08 PM
The mount as shown is stronger than I expected but I am going to use aluminium round stock center drilled by a latheman for the motor standoff.

The design will stay close to the pics. The oly thing to be added are the bearing runners for the long belt

Jason

epineh
07-29-2006, 08:43 PM
Jason I have a quick question, how do you find the belt setup as compared with say acme thread, I know you are using belts because of the sheer size of the machine, whipping of leadscrew etc, but I was wondering about using them on my machine (1200mm by 800mm) would there be any advantage over using acme thread ?

And no I cannot afford ballscrew's (yet)

O.K. so it wasn't THAT quick of a question

Oh yeah, almost forgot... nice work btw, keep the pics comin :D

Russell.

Jason Marsha
07-30-2006, 06:04 AM
Hi Russell,

Thanks for the encouragement. I would use acme thread on your machine based on the dimensions. Belts will complicate your build.

Jason

epineh
07-30-2006, 08:25 AM
Cool, I was kinda hoping you would say that, I have my head around the acme thread, didn't want to get any more confused :confused:

Russell.

Jason Marsha
09-05-2006, 06:04 PM
I have changed the design yet again and will now use "I" beam to run the bearing on. I have no pics at this moment but hopefully I will get a piece of the beam this week, adjust the bearing assembly and post the pics.

Jason

dan dimock
03-16-2007, 06:01 AM
I cannot find any new posts, have they been moved are just at a stand still?
Dan

Jason Marsha
03-16-2007, 09:10 PM
Hello Dan,

I have been between so many minds that I have ground to a halt :drowning: , at least for now.

The I beam idea sounded great but in reality it was a pain as the it had small imperfections which inhibited the smooth rolling of the bearings.

I may possibly have the long belts (all 26 feet of them) by the end of this month as an uncle is visiting from MD. I was thinking of getting motors as well but with the passenger luggage weight restrictions on the planes I will ship them seperately.

Homeshopcnc has some new monster steppers with the largest nema 34 rated at ~2500 oz/in torque at 8A :bat: . I think I want those:D

I have a design for the linear bearings which I think I will stick to, so the new sticking point is the Z axis design. I want to use materials that I have at home and this is making it somewhat harder.

If I push myself I will be able to post some results in the coming weeks.

My plan was to build a large router that could be built fairly easily but its fighting me all the way. When I am done I will make out a parts list to see what the actual cost will be.


Jason

dan dimock
03-17-2007, 03:39 AM
I know what you mean.

I have been holding up because of the lack of money, I have a friend that is building one to make doors for the front of logs homes, I told him to take a look at your, as I knew that when you got done it would work.

Good luck, and we all hope you can get back on it soon.

Dan

Jason Marsha
03-17-2007, 04:55 AM
Thanks Dan.

Jason Marsha
02-28-2008, 05:36 AM
I finally got a Z / X axis looking like its close to completion. Here is a pic of it on the floor. I will try to get it mounted temporarily on the hollow section for a better view.
The bearings are moving very smoothly on the hollow section although I have them rather tight. Its a lot heavier than I thought it would be at around 40 lbs.
The gear reduction is a 6.25 to 1.

The room to house my machines is not fully cleared yet but a significant start has been made.

Jason

epineh
02-28-2008, 07:24 AM
Good to see you are still going Jason, sometimes it may seem there is always something getting in the way, but if you keep at it, one day it will be built... at least that is what I keep telling myself :D

Russell.

dan dimock
02-28-2008, 07:45 AM
Is there any way you can post a larger picture where we could see more details of your unit?
Dan

Jason Marsha
02-28-2008, 07:55 AM
Thanks Russell. I will try to make this the final push towards completion.( How many times have I said that before :) )

Hey Dan here are some more pics, hopefully they are good enough for you.
The hollow section is 120x80mm and 6mm material, its quite heavy at 70lbs and added to that the 40 lb Z/X its a bit of a chore moving it around.

Jason

Jason Marsha
02-28-2008, 08:02 AM
Here is an extreme closeup of the gearing.

The shaft that will connect to the motor turns a 28 T pulley which in turn turns a 70T pulley which is in turn connected to a 28T pulley on the other side and that turns another 70T pulley along with the final 28 T drive pulley. The white idler along with one on the other sidewill mesh a 7' open belt with the 28T final drive pulley. I have wider and longer belts as well as the pulleys to match for the final drive so there may be some changes to the current setup.
The blue bearing holders each house seperate shafts

Jason

dan dimock
02-28-2008, 08:14 AM
Thanks,
I have redone my unit and now it is a 2X4 foot unit, all metal, The problem now is learning the software.
I would like to build a 4X8 some day, but I do not have the know - how that you have - with building or software. That is one reason I loved the site where you was posting pictures of your work.
I wish you would start a site of your work with pictures and DXF files for people like me to use and maybe hints on using some of the software programs.
Anyway thanks for shareing what you are building with us.
Dan

Jason Marsha
02-28-2008, 08:17 AM
The circles drawn in the hollow section denote where holes to lighten the material would be located but I became concerned after the Z/X axis was so heavy. I already have holes in a shorter piece of hollow section however length is not a concern in that case.

Jason

joecnc2006
02-28-2008, 10:43 AM
Now thats a lot of gearing, looks like it will work well.

Joe

Jason Marsha
02-28-2008, 09:05 PM
Hopefully I should be posting videos of it in motion in a couple of months.

Jason

Tony Mac
03-01-2008, 06:27 AM
The new machine is looking great Jason!

Tony

Jason Marsha
03-02-2008, 09:02 AM
Thanks Tony. Some clients made enquiries on its completion date last week and one even called yesterday. That's a little more pressure to get it finished.

I think my first cuts however will be for my house and I am considering the Aztec calender and the Lady of the woods, of course in extra large versions.

Jason

tajord
03-05-2008, 08:29 AM
hey jason, looking good there, hope i can pop in to have a closer look, whadya say?

Jason Marsha
03-05-2008, 05:04 PM
No Problem at all Tajord.

Jason

harryn
12-11-2008, 05:52 AM
Hi Jason - I was just wondering how your project is going ?

Thanks

Harry

Jason Marsha
12-13-2008, 12:58 AM
Thanks for asking Harry.

The machine can be now finished if I could dedicate the time to completing it. I will have time after the 19th of December to put more energy into the build. The JGRO has been busy for the last few weeks as customers rush to finish Christmas promotions.
All of this in addition to the stresses of the day job.

I may have to order an extra belt ~12ft and nema 34 motors just in case. I also want to order router mounts from K2CNC.

Jason

epineh
12-13-2008, 04:49 AM
Sounds like I have the same timetable as you Jason, finish up work for the year and relax...finish the router, get it working etc...:D

Of course there is build the shed, concrete some footpaths, do some tiling, all the odd jobs that have been pushed aside for the last 6 months...

Glad I have two weeks off :)

Hope all goes well for you to finish the beast !

Cheers.

Russell.

Jason Marsha
06-14-2009, 10:44 AM
Thanks Russell.

I am going to run the long axis with two these 6.25:1 gear reduction boxes (pic 2) coupled with 425 oz/inch motors. This combination should give me enough torque to drive the machine as it looks like the nema 34's are on hold for now.
Just the drive gears and the belt nylon rollers to install as in pic 1

Jason

Jason Marsha
07-21-2009, 08:32 AM
I pulled this design off the shelf catching dust,it was quite labour intensive to get right so I will use it on a smaller metal router.
One problem was the washers next to the top bearings control the width of the side bearings and as washers are not very uniform in thickness there was play in the system.

Jason

Jason Marsha
02-20-2010, 09:06 PM
I got a room cleared out for the machine to use, only issue is that the floor needs to be replaced.

I will rip up the floor sunday.
Monday:Install pipes under the floor (termite treatment).
Tuesday: Treat sub floor.
Wednesday: Install sub floor.
Thursday: Install some sort of quick floor cover.
Friday: Build table on which machine will be assembled.

Lets hope this schedule works out.

Jason

epineh
02-20-2010, 11:11 PM
There is always something that gets in the way of the fun, but I guess a floor isn't something you can do without :D

Cheers.

Russell.

Jason Marsha
02-21-2010, 09:12 AM
Quite right Russell. :)

Got up this morning at 9:30 so this sunday demo is behind schedule already as my entire afternoon is dedicated to a family visit.

Jason

Jason Marsha
02-21-2010, 02:15 PM
Some of the joists need to be replaced which really means I will replace them all.
Looks like an extra day of work.

Jason

Jason Marsha
01-04-2013, 06:31 PM
Well folks finally some action on the new cnc front.
First of all it looks like I will be running a 5 x 5 machine initially, switching to a 5 x 10 will involve wider gantry and wider support beams.

Bought the 7" x 4" I beam in december and welded up the running angle. No pics as the metal is at my friends workshop.

Finished the Z axis and it weighs 45 pounds without the router.

Got two 5 start screws for the y-axis but I am not sure about the x.

My budget is all but gone but I am determined to finish this in two weeks.

Jason

epineh
01-05-2013, 07:55 AM
That is one big Z axis ! How much travel will that have ?

Have you decided on any electronics yet ?

Great to see progress :)

Cheers.

Russell.

Jason Marsha
01-05-2013, 01:59 PM
Hey Russell,

8 inches of travel.

I had a Hobbycnc 4 axis kit for about 4 years waiting. I will use one NEMA 23 305 oz inch Hobbycnc motor for the Z axis. The other 3 motors will be 60 mm 300 oz inch Sanyo-Denki steppers with a really low inductance.

I am considering springs to help the motor haul the z axis up. I got this spring from a Risograph copier and looking for a match or one similar. This one is 4 inches total with 2 1/4 inches of coil and 7/8" diameter

Jason

gualalasmooth
01-05-2013, 02:28 PM
I am working on my second build I have a 50 x 100" bed on my first cnc
and I used sprockets and chains. I love them easy to work with smooth running and no backlash. I used the chain on the x because of the long run
and the extra weight of the gantry. Also you can easly use a sprocket reduction. check out sprockets and chains @ mcmaster and carr.

Thanks and good luck Tom

gualalasmooth
01-05-2013, 02:50 PM
Thanks Russell.

I am going to run the long axis with two these 6.25:1 gear reduction boxes (pic 2) coupled with 425 oz/inch motors. This combination should give me enough torque to drive the machine as it looks like the nema 34's are on hold for now.
Just the drive gears and the belt nylon rollers to install as in pic 1

Jason

One nema 34 sprocket reducted With a chain drive will pull that x fine Those
belt gear boxes look very expensive and bulky and there are two of them Why? thanks Tom

Jason Marsha
01-05-2013, 03:30 PM
Hey Tom,
One for each side of the Y axis which was originally going to be 10-12 feet long.
The third one (black) was for the X axis in the event I was going to make that axis the long one.

In terms of expense they each cost ~ $140.00 US dollars.

Jason

gualalasmooth
01-05-2013, 03:48 PM
Hey Tom,
One for each side of the Y axis which was originally going to be 10-12 feet long.
The third one (black) was for the X axis in the event I was going to make that axis the long one.

In terms of expense;

Jason I have a big x to pull on my build and I plan to use one nema 34 high tourque with a chain reduction to a cross gantry drive shaft It just seems like
you may be over tourqued. You could lift a house With your gearbox By the way nice work that stuf looks great Tom

Jason Marsha
01-05-2013, 07:01 PM
A single belt may be used on the X axis with the 300 oz inch motor. We will see how it works out. The Y will carry two 5 start screws direct drive.

Jason

gualalasmooth
01-05-2013, 08:54 PM
A single belt may be used on the X axis with the 300 oz inch motor. We will see how it works out. The Y will carry two 5 start screws direct drive.

Jason

Y axis with 2 screws direct drive 2 motors tandem ??

I like your reduction drives I just think it might be to much you will be
turning that stepper fast to get to 100 ipm don't you think ?

Did you build those drives with parts from mcmaster carr for $140 ?

how much does y axis weigh Is there a lot of stiction on your rails ?

thanks Tom

Jason Marsha
01-06-2013, 06:22 AM
Tom,

Pic shows how the machine in configured.

Two motors will move the gantry along the Y axis, up and down
One motor for the X axis. Left to right

With the belt drive the final output gear is 20 teeth 5mm pitch.
At 6.25 reduction one turn of my motor will move the axis 16mm or ~ 5/8"
100 ipm is no problem at all.

Y axis with gantry and router will weigh about 120 pounds.

Parts from SDP-SI & the Big Bearing Store. Bought some parts back in 2007-2008 prices may be different now.

There is some friction but it will loosen up quickly with probably an hour of machine usage.

As for the gear reduction drives they started as a scratch drawing and quickly evolved into the monsters they are today.
They would be much neater using aluminum with milled holes for the bearings to be pressed but Al is too expensive here in Barbados.

Thanks for the questions and observations I actually have the first gear reduction unit on my desk right now with fond memories of its assembly.

Jason

gualalasmooth
01-06-2013, 11:55 AM
This is one side of my latest build. So you can see why I'm interested in
what your building lota weight that one gantry end is 90 lbs overall this
side weighs about 400 lbs were gona have 5 axis with 3' Z

Jason Marsha
01-10-2013, 05:36 PM
My two quality control technicians test the strength of the X axis.
One more piece of 100mm X 55mm I beam for the support is due to be fitted in addition to the three already in place.

The angle iron is 1/2", I figured if I placed it like that my V bearings would have maximum contact.

I have to brush off that surface rust and decide on paint colours.

I also have to figure out how to square up everything properly.

Jason

Jason Marsha
01-11-2013, 06:18 AM
More pics.
The long threaded rod is 10mm diameter turned down on a lathe to get a tight fit for the 3/8" bearing hole. I was still able to use the 10 mm nuts as much of the thread remains for a firm grip.

The bottom bolts are standard 3/8" bolts.

Jason

dodger889
01-12-2013, 12:17 AM
How close to parallel are the welded on angles?

Jason Marsha
01-12-2013, 07:34 AM
They are welded at the edges of the I beam so if the I beam is perfectly parallel so are the angles.

We clamped straight pieces of metal past each edge of the I beam and then clamped the
angle up against that metal. There was a strip of wood with two 45 deg chamfers at
the top and two pieces for each side at the bottom that would force the angle against the metal strips.

It was a mess of clamps but it worked out well in the end.

Jason

Jason Marsha
01-18-2013, 04:57 PM
I borrowed my Uncle's 6 foot level and got the machine squared and leveled up today. The floor was level already except for a small bump so I just had to fit a large washer under the right side of the machine and I was good to go. I will bolt on the gantry this weekend and fit on the Z axis just to see how it all looks.

Jason

Jason Marsha
01-20-2013, 02:11 PM
Drilled 32 holes in the 'L' brackets on the drill press using a 3/8" DeWalt pilot point bit.

After bolting down the L brackets I used the same bit to start the holes on the gantry and used a cheaper black oxide bit to finish. Needless to say the cheap bit gave out after 16 holes.

Still need to drill 16 holes to finish but the sun is hot and I am tired.

Jason

Jason Marsha
04-25-2013, 12:32 AM
Got motors mounted.

flakey
05-27-2013, 08:00 AM
Hi Jason,
Your build is coming along great.I would like to see that monster move around.Give me a call when you are ready.(aka clammy23)

tajord
05-27-2013, 08:25 AM
Good going jason, you're almost there, then you get to pick it all back down and paint it

Jason Marsha
05-29-2013, 09:57 PM
Thanks Guys.
No I am not picking it back down to paint it!!!!!!:D

After the spectacular failure of my spinning nut design I fell back on my original belt drive design.

Assembled and tensioned the belt today. The movement is very smooth.

Jason Marsha
12-12-2013, 09:07 AM
Finished the control box. It was a Dell C521 but after a bit of cutting with the angle grinder and banging with the hammer I got it done.

The three fans caused the board to shut down after about one minute. I disconnected the center fan and everything worked perfectly.

So I assumed that the current draw from the third fan was exceeding some predetermined limit. I then found another fan with half

current draw of the center fan and it continued to work perfectly.

Originally this was the fan setup
Fan #1 0.16A
Fan #2 0.17A
Fan #3 0.18A


After
Fan #1 0.16A
Fan #2 0.09A
Fan #3 0.18A

Photocopier transformer is giving me 38 volts at the board after rectification. I used the 26.5 volt 13 Amp setting.

I built a 8'x8' table for big cnc, it was supposed to be 12'x8' so maybe next time.

Screws (1/2" - 10 5 start) and motors mounted onto the machine, about to organize the cables. In order to allow for easy control box removal

I will be forced to used motor connectors.

The smaller machine with the holes in the gantry is a 4x4 assembled from parts I had on hand.

Jason

Jason Marsha
12-27-2013, 03:25 PM
It is alive:banana:

I got the 5x5 running today after almost stripping the leadnuts (chair). Reversed the Y and forgot to reverse the A Axis, the two ends of the gantry moving in opposite directions.:withstupi

I wonder if the moderator can change the thread name to 5 x 5 instead of 5 x 10?

X axis : Belt Drive (6.25 to 1 gear reduction) top rapids in testing - 800 inches per minute, however 300 inches per minute is a more sensible rapid.

Y axis : Dual 1/2" - 10 5 Start ACME rod top rapids 300 inches per minute.

Z axis : 1/2" - 8 2 start ACME rod top rapids 300 inches per minute.

The 297 oz. inch 60 mm Sanyo Denki motors mounted on the X and Y & A axes that I salvaged from photocopiers are working great.
Low inductance of 2.4 mh as compared to the 6.8 mh for the Hobbycnc motor

The 305 oz. inch 56 mm Hobbycnc motor on the Z is also working well.

Some 2x4's for the plywood support and I am good to go. An all in one computer would be great, less stuff to lug inside after cutting.

Will post a video soon

LeeWay
12-27-2013, 06:41 PM
Excellent. Patiently waiting on the video. :)

Jason Marsha
12-31-2013, 09:11 AM
No vid yet Lee but a few pics.

Screwing in 2x4 supports to fasten the plywood.

Split Tubing and plastic guttering cable management

Jason

Jason Marsha
01-02-2014, 05:04 PM
All 2x4 supports installed. Capped with 3/8" MDF and leveled with the router.

Plywood base to be installed Friday.

Jason Marsha
01-12-2014, 07:35 PM
First sample products off the 5x5.

Bitmap imported into and converted to vectors by VCarve Pro V7. Easiest software to use.

Two sawn balusters 11" x 30" side by side. Four of them will show up the pattern a lot better. Treated pine is an awful wood to cut.
There is some fuzz that is really hard to clean up due to the tight spaces.

This cut was almost a disaster. Cut at two 10mm (~3/8") passes at 40" min with a 1/4" upcut. The bit slipped in the collet dug up the plywood base but somehow the cut finished.

Then a large cutout popped up and got stuck in the bit, wow what else could go wrong. After that I recalculated the tool path with tabs on everything.

Jason

Owen Gao
01-12-2014, 08:31 PM
so amazing those are ,studying

Jason Marsha
01-13-2014, 11:45 AM
Wood flattening 101.

Stacking blocks to remove the cup in the wood.

Kiln dried wood is really expensive in Barbados but I will compare prices to 3/4" sign foam and see what happens.

Jason

Jason Marsha
01-13-2014, 01:57 PM
Just checked the dimensions on the balusters and noticed the width was off by 1mm which corresponds to the X axis (belt drive). I wonder if the belt stretched
when it got stuck on the cutout yesterday for a few seconds.

Jason

Jason Marsha
01-13-2014, 06:19 PM
Cut 3mm sign foam and strapped it to cable to create quick and dirty cable chain. Works better than I thought it would.

Got 4 of the balusters cut and the pattern shows itself much better. I will buy some sandpaper and sanding discs tonight

to get rid of that fuzz. I used a sharp metal file for the hard to reach places and it worked quite well.

Still worried about the variation on the X axis.

I cut a 250 mm, 200 mm and a 180 mm square and all showed the same variation.

I tightened the belt as well and the error remained.

Maybe I can figure out what the new pitch of the belt is and enter the recalculated figure into the motor config in Mach 3.

If I can't figure out the number I will switch out the belts tomorrow and see what happens.

Jason

Khalid
01-13-2014, 10:01 PM
wow.. nice work and cable carrier idea is good. I have been using this type of improvised cable carrier using Flat Belt and cable tie since long without any trouble.

CarveOne
01-14-2014, 06:55 AM
My smaller CNC machine uses two layers of vinyl siding that was cut into narrow strips for managing the cables. It has been working as well as commercial e-chain for over a year. It was cut from scrap siding left over from my workshop build. One layer was not quite enough support for the cables. I used a paper punch to put holes through the vinyl for inserting zip ties to hold the cables and the vinyl layers together. It isn't as elegant as e-chain but the cost was near $0 usd.

epineh
01-14-2014, 07:59 AM
This cut was almost a disaster. Cut at two 10mm (~3/8") passes at 40" min with a 1/4" upcut. The bit slipped in the collet dug up the plywood base but somehow the cut finished.

Then a large cutout popped up and got stuck in the bit, wow what else could go wrong.
Jason

You realise you are tempting fate by saying that ? In my experience there is a whole world of other things that can and possibly will go wrong :)

Great job sticking with it and making it all work !

Look forward to seeing that video.

Cheers.

Russell.

Jason Marsha
01-14-2014, 10:10 AM
Khalid,
Thanks. So far it has been trouble free and I do not foresee any problems.

CarveOne,
Yes the cost was excellent as this was a piece of scrap and as you said it seems to be working as well as e-chain.

Russell,
I guess I am tempting fate, but even after discovering the belt may be stretched I am unusually calm.:)
I recorded a video but the quality was poor so I will do another.

Jason

Jason Marsha
01-15-2014, 08:50 PM
Well Russell you got me good.

Today I got up and decided to sort out the belt issue and guess what, the machine goes haywire.:drowning:

I narrowed the problem down to the Y axis after switching the slave and master axes.

I checked the wires from the board to the machine front and they were all good.

So I hoped I did not blow a chip but figured not because the motor was still moving but erratically.

So the last thing to do was disconnect the circuit board for an inspection of the soldered joints.

There it was! One of the commons on the Y axis screw terminal had a poorly soldered joint (had to use a magnifying glass).
So I corrected that joint plus a few others that looked suspicious, reassembled everything and now it works again.:banana:

Blood pressure back to normal.:)

Jason

Jason Marsha
01-16-2014, 12:58 PM
Cutting Cedar Cupboard Door Inserts - YouTube (http://youtu.be/g0rrtTb-k2A)

Vid as promised.

Sorry its a bit fuzzy.

Jason

Jason Marsha
01-21-2014, 07:06 AM
219526

These are the four initial balusters, I will offer more later.

Its been been tough cutting this treated wood as it is very prone to cupping when the heat dries out the moisture.

I looked for kiln dried 1x8's and 1x12's but only 2x12's were in stock.

I will buy some green heart and see what happens as its is cheaper than pine in these parts but its so damn hard.

I avoid purple heart as it burns too easily and destroys the bits unless its really really really dry.


I have been making more newbie mistakes than normal since running this machine. The second baluster from

the left got cut in a single 3/4" (19.05mm) pass at 40" per min. I though I had it set for 3 passes. The advantage

though is that there are no pass marks on the sharp curves which means no sanding.:banana:


I snapped a brand new Whiteside 1/4" upcut spiral on the third baluster from the left using 1/4" (6.35mm) passes

at 150" (3810mm) per min router at 24,000 rpm. That was an eye opener.

In terms efficiency, it seems that cutting 3/4" in one pass at the slower speed results in minor sanding which saves

lots of time. The fast cutting at shallow passes works me a lot harder to sand off the pass marks especially at some the

sharp curves. Just to be clear I hate hand sanding.:boxing:


Its been fun so far cutting with a larger machine and not having to consider material width or length.

I scored some 3/4" PVC foam board last night from a friend so i will cut a few balusters from that.


Today I will take the balusters up by the old man for approval and hopefully finish a solid surface picture frame which will

be for the grand-kids.


Jason

Jason Marsha
01-22-2014, 04:04 PM
Picture frame for dad to show off the grand-kids.

A black inlay should show up the carving. The size is 17" x 14"

90 deg 1" V-bit carving the outer border.

There is a keyhole slot at the back for wall mounting.

I will post a video later

Jason

Jason Marsha
01-22-2014, 06:48 PM
Finished frame. Black gloss 8 minute dry time krylon and it came out quite good.

CarveOne
01-22-2014, 08:42 PM
Looks good Jason. Looks like your machine is working pretty well.

Jason Marsha
01-23-2014, 07:28 AM
Thanks CarveOne.

New video.

Picture Frame Carving - YouTube (http://youtu.be/AMbrGR4OH68)

flakey
01-23-2014, 01:14 PM
Picture frame came out good.Happy you are up and running.

Jason Marsha
01-26-2014, 08:03 PM
My father is now happy with this frame.

epineh
01-27-2014, 04:11 AM
Well Russell you got me good.

Today I got up and decided to sort out the belt issue and guess what, the machine goes haywire.:drowning:

Jason

Haha well you can't blame me entirely, maybe just a little bit :)

Good to see you have it sorted, the finished jobs you are doing look great.

Sooooo, when are you building the next machine ??? haha sorry couldn't resist :D

Russell.

gmfoster
01-27-2014, 10:34 PM
That looks super I can understand why he is happy!

Jason Marsha
01-28-2014, 04:13 AM
Thanks flakey.

Russell,
Lets work this one for a while and see what happens.:)

Thanks gmfoster. On the next one I will sort out a better way of securing the picture in the pocket.

Jason

Jason Marsha
03-16-2014, 09:32 AM
There I was thinking this was an easy job.

Cutting marine plywood (14mm thick. Very undersized 5/8") at 100 inches per minute 1/4" passes and the 1/4" up spiral bit get pulled out of the new collet I just ordered.

It seems I need a pipe wrench to stop this from happening but I really tightened the collet well.

What speed is every one else cutting at?

The line through the job was clicking cycle start after hitting the escape button to check if the bit was still slipping.

The machine just went left although it had another pass on the square it was cutting.

Jason

ger21
03-16-2014, 09:43 AM
First, make sure the bit is not bottomed out in the collet. If it is, the collet won't be able to be tightened fully, and the bit will come out. If it's not bottomed out, put a wrench on the collet, and a wrench on the shaft, about 30° apart. Squeeze them together to tighten them. Squeeze very hard. I've never had a bit come loose with this method.
Nothing wrong with your feedrate. What's the rpm? You should be able to cut at 300ipm and 18,000 rpm and the bit should never come loose. Your spindle may not be up for 300ipm, though.


The line through the job was clicking cycle start after hitting the escape button to check if the bit was still slipping.

Once you hit "escape", you probably lost position. If you need to stop and restart, you should Feedhold, then Stop after the machine stops moving. Then use Run From Here to resume.
If you hit escape or E Stop, you should rehome the machine to regain position, then Run From Here.

Jason Marsha
03-16-2014, 10:32 AM
Thanks Gerry. Will use freehold and stop in the future.

Bosch 1617 - 2.25Hp running @ full speed ~ 24K - 25K rpm.

ger21
03-16-2014, 10:53 AM
At 100ipm, you can cut your rpm in half and get much better tool life.

Jason Marsha
03-16-2014, 11:34 AM
Ok Gerry, I will make some adjustments after I finish this job.(Just in case)

Jason Marsha
03-17-2014, 11:01 AM
It appears I will have to stop using 1/4" bits and the 1/4" collet. I re-tightened the collet this morning using Gerry's technique and a bit still got pulled out.

I will use the 1/2" collet and 1/2" bits or 3/8" only as they have a larger surface area to grip. I may also get a Hitachi router depending on price, which will allow me use the 1/4" bits


Jason

widgitmaster
03-18-2014, 12:22 AM
Jason, if you remove the collet from the spindle, and insert the endmill into the collet. Does the endmill fit snugly, and stay n the collet or is it loose?

Jason Marsha
03-18-2014, 10:24 AM
Widgit,

The bit fill snug into the collet but if I turned the collet vertical the bit would fall out.

Are you thinking it should stay in the collet if turned vertical?



After leaving the house yesterday with a head full of steam I calmed down a bit and realized I had one last option to try before purchasing a new router.

I used my 1/2" collet with an insert for a 1/4" bit and it worked. I slowed the feed rate down to ensure no more accidents.

The cone in the router shaft maybe worn a bit and not exerting the pressure needed on the collet to squeeze the smaller 1/4" bits with the 1/4" collet.

Thanks Gerry and Widgit.

ger21
03-18-2014, 01:51 PM
You may just have a bad or worn out collet.

widgitmaster
03-18-2014, 05:19 PM
Widgit,

The bit fill snug into the collet but if I turned the collet vertical the bit would fall out.

Are you thinking it should stay in the collet if turned vertical?



After leaving the house yesterday with a head full of steam I calmed down a bit and realized I had one last option to try before purchasing a new router.

I used my 1/2" collet with an insert for a 1/4" bit and it worked. I slowed the feed rate down to ensure no more accidents.

The cone in the router shaft maybe worn a bit and not exerting the pressure needed on the collet to squeeze the smaller 1/4" bits with the 1/4" collet.

Thanks Gerry and Widgit.

A good collet will expand slightly as the cutter is inserted; therefore, I would suggest you replace the collet!
There is one thing you can try: Put a smaller diameter drill shank in the collet, and tighten it down. This will close the worn / expanded collet to fit the actual cutter shank a little snugger!

Also, having a cutter pull out of a spring-collet is a common problem, even in big milling machines like a Bridgeport! That's why they sell tool holders with set-screws, and put flats on endmill shanks!

Go to ToolPartsDirect.com (http://www.toolpartsdirect.com/) , a great place for replacement parts!

Good luck!
Widgit

Jason Marsha
03-19-2014, 08:59 AM
Thanks guys I will let you know what happens.

Jason

Jason Marsha
03-24-2014, 08:08 PM
I needed a 3/8" bit for this louvre job and I found an inexpensive MLCS plunge bit.

It took me quite a while (pita) :tired: to get the setup correct as the customer wanted the grooves on the narrow side.

I checked each piece was vertical before starting each cut.

In all they came out quite good considering there was so little room to fit everything.


Jason

Jason Marsha
03-24-2014, 08:12 PM
A video of the cut.

http://youtu.be/RZNzWCsvMWY

widgitmaster
03-24-2014, 08:34 PM
Glad you got it running Jason! I like your fixturing!
Widgit

Jason Marsha
03-24-2014, 09:22 PM
Thanks Widgit,

I used the triangles and squares from the previous job.
They worked very well and the customer has more of this louvre work coming up.

Jason

Jason Marsha
04-04-2014, 08:43 PM
House number for my first daughter's godmother.

1/2" solid surface. approx 16" x 10".

Jason Marsha
04-05-2014, 11:06 PM
I got a call from a colleague to see a house that needs a design for two blank areas on the external walls.

After getting a design sorted he call me to add the house name Tranquility to the bottom of each accent.

The design is 40 " x 23" and cut from 3/4" PVC.

I created a tool path to drill 1mm deep holes as an indicator for the 1.5" 16 gauge brads.

These brads stop the waste material from blowing out of the slots and stalling the router.

Air nailing the brads increases overall cut time but the peace of mind of not having large loose pieces blowing around the cut is immeasurable.

I simply cut the supplied material, the customer wanted to paint the letters in himself.

I will get a pic of the mounted accents this week.

ger21
04-06-2014, 07:28 AM
Takes a little longer to cut, but you can just pocket the cutouts and not have the loose piece causing havoc.

CarveOne
04-06-2014, 08:49 AM
Takes a little longer to cut, but you can just pocket the cutouts and not have the loose piece causing havoc.

In agreement with Gerry on this one. The time it takes to pocket these is probably less than the time it takes to carefully locate the brads. Use a fairly aggressive step-over in the pocket setup and set it for a small final step-over for the finish cut to leave a clean edge..

Jason Marsha
04-07-2014, 08:36 PM
I will try the pocket solution and see what happens.

Guys
Is your final pocket pass a full depth pocket even for 3/4" sign foam (uPVC) or treated pine in order to avoid depth pass marks?

Jason

CarveOne
04-07-2014, 10:39 PM
I will try the pocket solution and see what happens.

Guys
Is your final pocket pass a full depth pocket even for 3/4" sign foam (uPVC) or treated pine in order to avoid depth pass marks?

Jason

Most of what I work with is red oak. When pocketing I make multiple passes of 0.1" or more and don't see any step-down marks. The settings for pockets in Vectric software includes a small step-over for the final full depth pass that can made wide enough to clean out the small steps in the wall of the pocket. If you always have these steps in the walls it could be an indicator of the Z axis not being close enough to 90.0 degrees to the table top.

Jason Marsha
04-08-2014, 04:25 PM
Yes CarveOne my Z axis seems to be slightly off the 90 degrees.

Jason Marsha
04-08-2014, 04:28 PM
Here are the promised pics of the installed Tranquility house sign.

I should have made the one on the house bigger as it seems smaller due the the significant height difference from the ground.

Design was cut from a larger vector and completely edited in V-Carve Pro.

CarveOne
04-08-2014, 05:54 PM
Looks really nice Jason. I agree that the sign on the building could be larger than it is. I doubt that many people would notice though.

Jason Marsha
04-08-2014, 09:13 PM
Thanks CarveOne

Khalid
04-08-2014, 11:18 PM
Thats simple elegant yet beautiful.:)

Jason Marsha
04-10-2014, 03:07 PM
Thanks Khalid.

flakey
04-15-2014, 11:19 PM
Looks good.

Jason Marsha
07-21-2014, 09:20 PM
Thanks Flakey,

Got some more louvre work. Some of the wood was Cedar and some was Sapele. Some of the ends of the slots chipped
off when the bit was exiting the wood so I devised a tool path to reduce the chipping. Made entry cuts on each side of the
wood and then made a full pass through. Came out fairly clean so I am satisfied.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICFj8UWW4Yk

Jason

tajord
07-21-2014, 09:27 PM
nice going jason, actually used sapele for the first time last week, pretty nice wood imo, how did it go for you?

Jason Marsha
07-21-2014, 10:22 PM
It seems to be a lot like Mahogany. One or two pieces chipped badly on the bit exiting the wood hence the strange tool path which takes ~2.5 times as long as the normal tool path.
To be sure I had no other problems I picked up a new 1/2" straight bit which eased my nerves.
5/16" deep slot @ about 40" min

Jason

Jason Marsha
07-22-2014, 08:10 PM
I added the video above

Jason Marsha
09-03-2014, 07:19 AM
Solid surface sign. I was concerned about the Algerian Font and its lines outside the letters but it came out clean in the end.

Size : 26 inches X 13 inches. 60 deg solid carbide bit.

Jason

Jason Marsha
09-10-2014, 08:35 AM
More solid surface work.

Appreciation plaque is for the lady in charge of the nursery that my daughters attended. My last daughter has moved

on to primary school and we wanted to thank her for everything she did for our girls.

She loved it. She said it was the first time she was given anything like that.

Size 13" x 9"

Jason

Jason Marsha
09-10-2014, 08:39 AM
This frame was done for a funeral display.

Size 14" x 10"


Jason

Jason Marsha
12-17-2014, 09:00 PM
Decorative Fascia Trim - YouTube (http://youtu.be/ufms_AcJRbY)

Video of a trimming fascia board I was requested to copy from a provided sample.

The holes were cut with a Freud up-spiral 3/8" bit using VCarve Pro 7 for the design.

Two pocket passes @ 10mm (3/8") per pass and then a profile pass to remove any depth marks which turned out to be unnecessary as the pocket passes were perfect.

Forgot to mention that this a an 8' moulding on a 5' machine


Jason

Jason Marsha
12-17-2014, 09:03 PM
Pics of the above video.

The second picture shows the indexing in order to cut 8' on a 5' machine.

ger21
12-18-2014, 10:29 AM
You need to invest in some dust collection!

Jason Marsha
12-18-2014, 06:28 PM
Definitely Gerry. I am moving soon to a more suitable location and will have all those goodies.

I acquired Mano's (Norbert) 5 x 10 MaxiCam machine as he was quite ill and sold all of his machinery.

The workshop to house the machine was being improved and is almost complete with the exception of a 3 phase generator.

Jason

Jason Marsha
02-19-2015, 05:03 AM
Pics of the machine.

Still have to do the electrical installation. Considering using a roto-phase converter or a generator to get three phase electricity.

The spindle is a monster at 9 kW or 12 HP. A smaller spindle would have been more practical but that's what the machine came with.

Have to learn this Syntec controller or convert to Mach 3

I am still using my 5x5 at home and I may get the 4x4 running soon as well.

Jason

epineh
02-20-2015, 03:35 AM
Nice looking machine you have there ! I reckon learning to use the existing controller would be a good way to go, it is already installed and working, if it aint broken don't fix it kind of thinking...

Three phase might be interesting, what do you have available? I am assuming two phases as you mention phase convertors. If you lived a bit closer I would be happy to have a look and help out (I am an electrician), might try convince the wife we need to have a holiday in Barbados ! :D

Cheers.

Russell.

Jason Marsha
02-20-2015, 04:34 AM
Russell

Thanks.

Its available but about 600 meters away, so my an employee from the electric company told my dad do not even consider it as the price would be very high.

Yes I think a holiday would be a great idea. :D

She might suspicious however when you just happened to find a house in the countryside with a large CNC machine that is about to be wired up. :D

We will probably use 2 phase and convert as there is a converter that came with the machine. From what I remember when I saw the machine at Mano's warehouse
this converter only runs the CNC and there was another to run the compressor, vacuum pump and dust collector.

Jason Marsha
03-28-2015, 12:06 AM
Cut an arch for the top of a doorway today. I collected the material from the customer, then designed according to specs,

cut, then pocketed shapes and delivered to customer where payment was waiting. Not bad for a Friday as it was all completed in a few hours.

This is the type of customer many of us would like. No problems paying extra for material pickup and product delivery after hours as well as rush

as they wanted it back today.

One of the pieces is pocketed to accept a single piece of glass.

Size 44 inches wide by 15 inches tall

Jason Marsha
03-31-2015, 06:02 AM
Letters to be mounted to a wall. Customer wants them suspended about 1/2" off the wall.
Epoxied small head dry wall type screws into a 1/4" x 3/8" deep hole.
I found that 30 min set time epoxy was the best to use as the 5 min syringe with mixing tip epoxy
was clogging the tip when the syringe was almost empty.

tajord
04-01-2015, 07:55 PM
whew... haven't been in here for quite a while, I see you guys did some remodeling (love what you've done with the place). How's it coming with the "big guy" Jason, any progress with the electronics, boy I miss seeing that machine up close.

I see you've been busy as well with other pieces, very nice as always. Gotta give you a buzz.

Jason Marsha
04-02-2015, 09:52 PM
The big machine is awaiting some more funds. We will outfit the building with lights and have an electrician set up the other electrical work as well.
Apparently that's the only way we will get BL&P approval for service.

Jason

flakey
04-11-2015, 02:49 AM
Every thing looks good as usual.I like the big fella you have there looks you can cut concrete slabs with it. lol lol.I am really looking forward to seeing it up close.

Jason Marsha
04-11-2015, 03:24 PM
Funds, funds,funds Flakey. Its what rules the world. As soon as they come through I will start the electrical work.

Jason

Jason Marsha
04-24-2015, 07:24 AM
I took on a job of 1 1/4" x 10" x 16' pressure treated pine. He wanted a trim design cut with the ends rounded over.

I cut each piece in 4 foot sections and with the different tool changes it took 2 hours to complete a 16 ft section.

The wood was wet and I settled on 4 passes @ 60"/min 1/4 depth of cut using a 1/4" up cut spiral. router 24000rpm.

Even with this 1/4" depth cut the whole process was noisy.

The Bosch 1617 started to lose and regain rpm. I opened the top checked the wiring it was fine so I bypassed the speed control

and it ran fine and then started to repeat the process. The problem maybe one of the metal strips that are a few inches long and

go down into the coil. When I disconnected one of the speed control wires the metal strip came out as well but I pushed it back down.

In the end I bought a Hitachi as a quick replacement and it worked well.

I try to use 1/4" bits with a 1/2" shank because the collet has a stronger grip on the bigger shank and it does not pull out

Lessons learned:

1: A 10 day window to finish such jobs.

2: Wet lumber will attract a higher rate (maybe best to quote the higher price initially)

3: Although I have used routers for many years the noise really started to annoy me.

4: Tell customers the wood is to be flat and one edge needs to be straight.

5: Charge more.

What is your rate for doing this kind of work in your area considering that two bits were used?

Based on the timelines, even if I had a machine that could cut 16 feet one of these would still take 45min - 60 min to cut.

Jason

LeeWay
04-24-2015, 08:16 AM
It looks great. I think you did well. That said, there are some jobs that are just faster done by hand. I have cut many many items like this on jobs sites over the years and the best tools to use would have been a Bosch jig saw followed by a round over bit in a router.
That would be for a one off. Maybe 20 minutes tops. If you needed a lot of them, then make an initial template and follow up using a patterning bit. I don't think you can command very high prices for simple items that can be done in a similar or even faster timeline by hand. Where a cnc router shines is for items beyond that.
Intricacy ,complexity and precision will command a higher price.

Jason Marsha
04-24-2015, 09:14 AM
Thanks Lee.
Here are the prices we went through initially.

By hand the customer had someone do it by hand for $15.00 USD ($30.00 BDS) per 16 foot length.

The finish was not that impressive.

We settled on $40.00 USD ($80.00 BDS) per 16 foot length.

I remember ger21 telling me I could up my feed rate based on another job I did a while back.

I would redesign the tool path to take the sharp corners out at the end of each circle as this tends to jerk the machine when

it changes direction so suddenly. A small curve would allow the machine to flow through the corner.

I forgot to add that I managed to get one bit to cut four lengths of wood.

Total length of cut based on the 4 passes and 4 lengths of wood was about 430 feet before the bit started to really discolour.

With this new router experiment and see what happens @ 125 ipm (3175 mm/min) - 1/4" passes. I figure the noise will be insane

Jason

LeeWay
04-24-2015, 10:38 AM
Noise is always an issue with a router. Some are a little quieter than others, but not by a lot. We use noise canceling or radio head phones here. That helps. Just last week I switched from A HF die grinder on my plasma cutter to a Makita. Now that made a big difference in the noise level. Makita is so much less loud. :) I had been using the HF one for a couple years and I think the brushes are going out. It would no longer keep constant speed. It came with replacement brushes, so we will just use it to sharpen lawn mower blades or something.

Pressure treated lumber treats your tools badly anyway. That said, that is all I ever build with now. I have seen far to much raw pine rot and get had for lunch by termites to even bother with it anymore. That is unless it is a project that will get finish coats of something.

Your pricing is very reasonable too. Unless he had a real craftsman making those, they would not come out as nice as your machine will make them. I don't know what they are being used for and how close scrutiny they may see, but looks like it may be facial board or something for a gingerbread house. :) At any rate, looks good. Helps you define what your machine is capable of as well. Keep on posting results with the different bits too. That helps us all out. :)

Devastator
04-24-2015, 11:13 AM
FWIW, I wouldn't touch that for $40. Not worth my time.

Jason Marsha
04-24-2015, 11:50 AM
Thanks for your reply guys.

In terms of pricing I knew it was low and it will be adjusted in the future. the price would have to at least double or maybe triple.

The balusters I normally cut are 30" long sell @ 20.00 usd and I can cut one in less than 10min (this includes reloading another blank). I cut one in under 5 min once but the machine

jerked around too much due to the sharp angles. Clearly balusters are a better option in terms of pricing.

Jason

ger21
04-24-2015, 11:55 AM
I try to use 1/4" bits with a 1/2" shank because the collet has a stronger grip on the bigger shank and it does not pull out



A 1/4" bit should never pull out. Make sure the collet is clean, and tighten it more.


The wood was wet and I settled on 4 passes @ 60"/min 1/4 depth of cut using a 1/4" up cut spiral. router 24000rpm.

Cut the rpm in half, and double the feedrate. 120ipm @ 12,000 rpm. It should be quieter, and the bits will last longer.

I'd use a handheld router with a bearing guided roundover bit for the radius. You can do it while the parts are being cut. Saves a tool change, and a lot of machining time.

You might need to make the hole slightly larger to be able to round it over by hand, unless you can find a small roundover bit.

Basically, you should be able to cut your time in half.

Devastator
04-24-2015, 01:35 PM
Thanks for your reply guys.

In terms of pricing I knew it was low and it will be adjusted in the future. the price would have to at least double or maybe triple.


$40 would be my setup charge for something like that. CAD/CAM computer time would be a separate charge if they just wanted a few pieces, but if they wanted a larger quantity, I'd eat that. Just how I'd do it. And like ger21 said, doing the roundovers with a bearing collar radius bit by hand router would be the way to go.

Jason Marsha
04-24-2015, 08:03 PM
Thanks for the suggestions. I will get the Bosch router repaired and keep it to do the manual parts of such jobs.

Jason

Jason Marsha
06-02-2015, 11:56 PM
Tried Gerry's suggestions and ran a new 1/4" bit @ 1/4" depth in dry PT pine and it ran without that high pitch squeal during the cut.

Thanks Gerry.


Something for the kids.

I saw this caddy online and decided to make two for the little ones. I make lots of things for other people but I never made anything
like this for my kids.

Took me a lot longer than I thought it would. Next time I will use a poplar type wood as plywood & PT pine needed sanding and paint
and it still was not to my liking. Plus I do not want to paint as its a pain waiting for it to dry.

In the end although not perfect, It came out pretty good.
I will fill it with pretty pencils, crayons, paint and markers tomorrow and they will be in heaven.

Just my luck there was an odd colour as the last one in stock. Lets hope both of them do not want the orange one.

Jason

epineh
06-03-2015, 04:30 AM
Just my luck there was an odd colour as the last one in stock. Lets hope both of them do not want the orange one.


Jason

Well if they are anything like my kids the orange one will become the prize possession, causing a never ending battle, lol :D

Nice work though.

Russell.

Jason Marsha
06-03-2015, 07:47 PM
Thanks Russell.

It appears all is peaceful as I have heard no fights for the orange bin. I guess I stuffed with so many things they did not notice.:)

Jason Marsha
06-04-2015, 08:24 AM
Lots of stuff, but I forgot the pretty pencils.

CNCMAN172
06-04-2015, 10:20 AM
Jason, nice job on all your projects. Routers are extremely noisy and can cause hearing damage even with protective head gear they are extremely noisy. You might want to consider you home made machine with a 3KW or 4KW Chinese spindle with the associated VFD. I ran routers for years and they just can not handle extended periods, most hand routers are designed for short jobs. The bearings tend to wear out running at higher RPM. The noise level reduction of using a Water Cooled spindle is just amazing. You can stand there and talk to someone while it is running most of the time depending on what you are cutting. Your new machine will require true three phase power or a high quality rotary phase converter for a 12HP spindle. That spindle in your new machine is a very nice spindle and you will be shocked once you get that running how powerful that spindle is and how easy it will cut the material you have been cutting. Best of luck and keep up the good work.

Russ

Devastator
06-05-2015, 03:16 PM
I ran routers for years and they just can not handle extended periods,

I disagree. I've done runs of 16 hours or more, but my regular production is 8 to 10 hours per day, six days per week. I change the bearings about every three months. I'm using a Bosch 1617 EVS and SuperPid.

CNCMAN172
06-05-2015, 08:43 PM
Compare that to 10 years on a spindle running 15k RPM with no bearing changes. I have that same router which is a nice router, but now compare the noise levels, try one you will never go back!

Russ

nlancaster
06-05-2015, 10:43 PM
I just switched to a 2.2KW Spindle. SO MUCH quieter!!

And alot more power.

Devastator
06-06-2015, 01:59 AM
Compare that to 10 years on a spindle running 15k RPM with no bearing changes. I have that same router which is a nice router, but now compare the noise levels, try one you will never go back!

Russ

I agree with that. I just disagreed with your original statement, I didn't say they were better than spindles.

Jason Marsha
06-06-2015, 10:26 AM
A 14 foot sign installed with the help of fellow cnczoners Tajord and Flakey.

3/4" sign foam covered with contact paper to mask and letters pocketed with a 1/4" upspiral bit.

Letters painted with rattle can hunter green. I had only 1 can a a bit to finish the letters so I painted the letter pockets with light coat of rattle can black (same fast drying brand)

and then finished with the hunter green. This black coat darkens up those areas that the spray does not get into easily.

tajord
06-06-2015, 10:43 AM
Finished product came out pretty good Jason

Jason Marsha
06-06-2015, 11:37 AM
Thanks to you and Flakey.

Jason Marsha
06-08-2015, 06:53 PM
Yes guys Centre is spelt correctly.

Jason Marsha
08-22-2015, 06:29 PM
Have not posted in a while some pics of recent work.

The dragon fly cutout had to be done in 3 pieces.

All work done in V-Carve Pro as usual.

Jason

Jason Marsha
08-22-2015, 06:31 PM
The dragon fly was done for zone member Tajord as his big machine is not finished yet.

Jason Marsha
09-27-2015, 08:44 AM
Pic of the dragonfly mounted. before finishing.

Jason Marsha
05-27-2016, 07:17 AM
I was pocket cutting yesterday and the machine was stuttering in the curves.

My CV distance setting was 180 for a long time. The CV feedrate is not active but it is set to +1.0. I also use millimeters as my units.

They were some settings that Ger51 gave a me a while back but I cannot find them.

Will experiment and see what happens.

Jason Marsha
05-27-2016, 08:16 AM
I have always set my VCarve output to gcode mm. lets see what happens when I try gcode arcs in mm. All CV settings off.

Jason Marsha
05-28-2016, 09:19 AM
Problem solved

I export my VCarve Pro gcode as gcode mm. It seems this gcode will represent arcs as a series of tiny straight lines which is fine under normal cutting situations.

When I increased the feet rate through the override section of the mach 3 home screen during the cut, the machine started to shake.

If I set the speed in the gcode to the increased speed and run from the start the file runs fine.

If we ouput gcode arcs and speed it up during the cut it will run smoothly.

The strange thing is I have overridden the cut speed before and never had this problem. Its all a bit odd.

Constant velocity was on

Lesson learned.

Jason Marsha
07-10-2016, 04:22 PM
Needed to use some cheap 60 deg bits 1/4" shaft with my hitachi router that came when we bought the 5 x 10 Maxi-Cam.

I ordered the PreciseBits ER-20 kit for the Bosch 1617 which also fits the Hitachi 2.25 hp.

These 1/4" (6.35 mm) collet held the shaft of the 60 deg bit which was even slightly smaller than 6 mm.

I also bought the 1/8" collet for those tiny plastic and aluminum Amana O flute bits.

Please note that if your router is well used that in addition to the provided instructions for cleaning the inside of the collet cone

you should also clean the armature threads that the collet nut will screw onto. The nut would not thread all the way on until I cleaned them out with

a utility blade. A few people have posted the reduction in runout when this kit is installed. Not pictured in the pics is the spanner that came with the kit.

Jason

Jason Marsha
08-12-2017, 02:44 PM
Wow have not posted in a while.

I recently changed my BioStar motherboard to an ASRock mobo and HDD on my cnc's computer and got it back up and running without much fuss.

Hooked the motherboard LPT1 pinouts to the cable, hooked up my hobbycnc box and off I went. Now my double Y axis and single Z axis motors

make a bup bup bup bup sound every few rotations and they will sometimes stall under no stress.

I believe its the new motherboard. Any thoughts??

Jason.

ger21
08-12-2017, 03:04 PM
Check the bios for EIST (intel) or C1E (AMD) and disable it if possible.

Jason Marsha
08-13-2017, 08:47 PM
Thanks Gerry I will try it.