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slowtwitch
01-16-2012, 08:01 AM
Hello folks, Over the weekend, I had to mill four holes in a plate of .750" 6061 aluminum. The holes were .750 in diameter. I use Aspire and proceeded to get some code for the project. One thing I noticed about Aspire, is that on circular moves, like the four packets that i needed, Aspire writes the code all in G1 moves, not G2 or 3.

Anyway, I set everything up and proceed to make my cuts. After the first hole was cut and the mill began to make it's move to the second hole, I noticed a strange sound...maybe a clunk???? I then saw that the end mill was not over it's supposed cutting point.

At first, I thought it was software related, being that Mach3 was trying to read all those G1 lines.I referenced the mill and tried again. I would get the same result. To make this part of the story short, it turns out that the Y stepper coupling had came loose.

Now this is where the spindle alarm comes into play... In trying to get to the coupling, I had to switch the mill off and on about three, maybe four times (to turn the ball screw to get to the coupling). On my last attempt to switch on the mill, the spindle alarm reared it's ugly head.

I was upset, I had promised a set of components I was milling and couldn't finish them :( I tried resetting the alarm button on the front panel, but , no luck. I turned off the mill and let it sit for about 2 hours, hoping that I would try it and it would work again...it did not. I went to bed frustrated (kinda of a typical evening when working on the Mikini). The next morning before work, I went out to the shop to see if anything had changed, it did not :(

While at work, I ran all kinds of scenarios through my head. I checked Allen's progress with his retrofit..started hunting Ebay for an AC motor replacement, looked at the Keling and CNC4PC sites for possible replacement items. I was feeling desperate. I needed to get these parts out.

Then I started to calm down and decided that I will start trouble shooting the problem and maybe find and fix it.

When I got home, I pulled out the meter and began measuring line voltages (I read 230 volts, in case Phil is reading this), then I measured this and that and all seemed good.............

Then I decided to remove the DB9 connector on the spindle board and see if I would get an alarm without the connection. Now, the machine is still powered up, but, I figured the DB9 connection only has signals and maybe 5 volts going through it (Phil will probably jump in here about now and give us a three page dissertation on the dangers of running with scissors).

Here is were it gets interesting, as I was removing the DB9, I inadvertently touched one of the pins on the cable to the connector shield that is on the board. I heard a beep and the red tower light turned off. I went over to the front panel and to my amazement the spindle alarm was off. I couldn't believe it.....No more spindle alarm!!!!!!.......I have a running mill again !!!!

When i get these parts finished, I'm going to see if i can figure out the pin out on these connectors. I believe there is a problem with the main board and i would like to see if I could replace it with an off the shelf breakout board.

MIKINI MECH
01-16-2012, 12:23 PM
Feel free to give us a call - we'll gladly help you troubleshoot in detail at any time.

Note that no service request, email, or call has been made to us with machine and detail specifics regarding this issue, as of this posting.

Based on the description only, this documents a trip and reset of protection on the spindle drive, which displays the spindle halt alarm on the machine status display, and triggers the warning indicator.

Note that the spindle drive protection alarm is a signal generated by the spindle drive, not the main board. Hence disconnection of the drive to board signal cable causing it to cease. If there had been (or was) an issue with the main board, removing this cable would have had no affect on releasing the alarm.

If there was an active protection signal from the drive, removing this cable would have the effect described.

To clear a protection event on a drive, power needs to be totally removed from the machine for a short period to allow the drive's protection to reset during a re-boot of the drive's logic.

For general reference (not pertaining to this event as described), If there are secondary power or signal sources, or the machine is not off for a short period, this re-boot of the drive logic may not occur.

Additionally, depending on the nature of the fault that caused the alarm this reset can be instant or persistent during the drive's reboot to provide proper protection to the drive, and is something we would assist with when troubleshooting a customer's drive that had an active protection indicator.

The beep you describe just after the drive cable removal was the spindle drive re-booting, clearing the protection causing the alarm (the V2.0 drive itself makes a very short beep when it's booted).

It's likely this was a power on reboot of the drive's logic due to the drive's power supply being shorted out and going under voltage. If this was the case, In short, you got lucky that you didn't "let the magic smoke out of" the drive's on-board logic power supply, and/or the main board itself.

Both are systems in V2 are pretty robust as this attests to, but can be damaged depending on what a short is to, and for how long.

Also note for general reference (again, not specific to this description of events) that the same alarm noise is triggered by your spindle protection, E-stop and limits, which can cause confusion if you don't read the machine status display, and something we have on a long term development list as a desired refinement.

Lastly, this should be common sense ..... Do not attempt to service a machine with power on. There are hazards to those performing the task, and there's a huge chance you could damage something. Inadvertent shorts, such as this one documented, to internal signal control lines can cause damage to components.

Powering down, removing the cable & securing the end, then powering up, powering down, re-connecting, and then re-powering up would have had the same troubleshooting value at much less overall risk.

Mikini Mechatronics, LLC
831.254.2012




Hello folks, Over the weekend, I had to mill four holes in a plate of .750" 6061 aluminum. The holes were .750 in diameter. I use Aspire and proceeded to get some code for the project. One thing I noticed about Aspire, is that on circular moves, like the four packets that i needed, Aspire writes the code all in G1 moves, not G2 or 3.

Anyway, I set everything up and proceed to make my cuts. After the first hole was cut and the mill began to make it's move to the second hole, I noticed a strange sound...maybe a clunk???? I then saw that the end mill was not over it's supposed cutting point.

At first, I thought it was software related, being that Mach3 was trying to read all those G1 lines.I referenced the mill and tried again. I would get the same result. To make this part of the story short, it turns out that the Y stepper coupling had came loose.

Now this is where the spindle alarm comes into play... In trying to get to the coupling, I had to switch the mill off and on about three, maybe four times (to turn the ball screw to get to the coupling). On my last attempt to switch on the mill, the spindle alarm reared it's ugly head.

I was upset, I had promised a set of components I was milling and couldn't finish them :( I tried resetting the alarm button on the front panel, but , no luck. I turned off the mill and let it sit for about 2 hours, hoping that I would try it and it would work again...it did not. I went to bed frustrated (kinda of a typical evening when working on the Mikini). The next morning before work, I went out to the shop to see if anything had changed, it did not :(

While at work, I ran all kinds of scenarios through my head. I checked Allen's progress with his retrofit..started hunting Ebay for an AC motor replacement, looked at the Keling and CNC4PC sites for possible replacement items. I was feeling desperate. I needed to get these parts out.

Then I started to calm down and decided that I will start trouble shooting the problem and maybe find and fix it.

When I got home, I pulled out the meter and began measuring line voltages (I read 230 volts, in case Phil is reading this), then I measured this and that and all seemed good.............

Then I decided to remove the DB9 connector on the spindle board and see if I would get an alarm without the connection. Now, the machine is still powered up, but, I figured the DB9 connection only has signals and maybe 5 volts going through it (Phil will probably jump in here about now and give us a three page dissertation on the dangers of running with scissors).

Here is were it gets interesting, as I was removing the DB9, I inadvertently touched one of the pins on the cable to the connector shield that is on the board. I heard a beep and the red tower light turned off. I went over to the front panel and to my amazement the spindle alarm was off. I couldn't believe it.....No more spindle alarm!!!!!!.......I have a running mill again !!!!

When i get these parts finished, I'm going to see if i can figure out the pin out on these connectors. I believe there is a problem with the main board and i would like to see if I could replace it with an off the shelf breakout board.

slowtwitch
01-16-2012, 06:33 PM
Mikini, did you even read the post. The spindle went into alarm when it wasn't even turned on. I was just jogging the Y axis. I let the mill sit overnight and there was still an alarm the next morning :(

Again, I do not want to deal with you guys. If i were to send back this board to you , it would be the fourth time and I don't want to be held hostage for another two months.

At Least my diy lathe conversion is running beautifully. All off the shelf products, never an alarm, I turn it on and it's ready to go. I wish i could say the same for the mill :(

If and when i can ever finish my first project on this mill , I will definitely do a conversion to a more robust and dependable set of electronics.

Thanks

MIKINI MECH
01-16-2012, 07:50 PM
Just trying to help and provide information for everyone's benefit. We read all the information provided, and can only respond to what was provided. Our understanding from this was the machine was re-set 3-4 times in fairly rapid succession, at which point the drive went into protection just after the last re-boot. Attempts were made to further restart without affect. Disconnecting and shorting out the signal connection to the drive from the control system caused the drive to reboot and clear the protection.

" had to switch the mill off and on about three, maybe four times (to turn the ball screw to get to the coupling). On my last attempt to switch on the mill, the spindle alarm reared it's ugly head.

I was upset, I had promised a set of components I was milling and couldn't finish them I tried resetting the alarm button on the front panel,"

Note that leaving a machine sitting (in-definitely) with power/signal or very rapidly power cycling will not reboot the spindle drive, and thus will not clear the protection halt alarm.

Shorting the drive's logic out as you documented you did will (highly inadvisable), as will removing all power and signal for a short period of time, as a normal machine & controller re-start would.

If your machine is operating again, unless there is other information or existing problems, there would not be a reason to have a drive inspected or repaired, nor did our previous post suggest this.

Also note that the reset button on the front panel has no effect on the spindle drive, it's only effective for the axial servos.

You may have a control/interface configuration that is preventing the machine's drive from fully powering down based on this description when it is reset. If you'd like assistance, we're offering it free of charge.

For what it's worth, if a spindle protection occurs again and it is not after a heavy cutting duty cycle (which could cause a persistent soft thermal fault), try shutting down or disconnecting your controller first, then the machine, waiting 30 seconds, power the machine back up, then the controller. Highly likely this would have the same effect as what you documented to restore operation.

If you frequently get protection faults or have other stability issues, worth verifying your ground is quiet. The servo spindle drives will not operate properly without a clean ground as they can interpret the noise as position feedback that does not really "exist", which will lead to the drive protecting itself to avoid damage from stray current. This is also generally true of any servo drive machine.

Fluke offers products to do so, and good technical information on the frequently mis-understood subject.

Earth Ground Testers - Fluke (http://www.fluke.com/fluke/usen/products/categoryegt)

http://support.fluke.com/find-sales/Download/Asset/2633834_6115_ENG_A_W.PDF

For reference this is a second hand, early 2009 production, 1610L machine.

Mikini Mechatronics, llc




Mikini, did you even read the post. The spindle went into alarm when it wasn't even turned on. I was just jogging the Y axis. I let the mill sit overnight and there was still an alarm the next morning :(

Again, I do not want to deal with you guys. If i were to send back this board to you , it would be the fourth time and I don't want to be held hostage for another two months.

At Least my diy lathe conversion is running beautifully. All off the shelf products, never an alarm, I turn it on and it's ready to go. I wish i could say the same for the mill :(

If and when i can ever finish my first project on this mill , I will definitely do a conversion to a more robust and dependable set of electronics.

Thanks