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View Full Version : My latest project, Machine #2



Lionclaw
10-27-2005, 11:58 PM
My first router was built following the JGRO plans with a few tiny modifications. The machine is nice, but has some shortcomings such as gantry flex, leadscrew whip, and pipe flex/sag.

I've taken what I learned from the JGRO machine and applied it to a new design. Lots of ideas borrowed from Steve(spalm) and Gerry(ger21). Huge props to Steve for his trial and error efforts, and for persisting until he finds the best solution to a problem. I've learned a lot from his posts. Big thanks to Gerry for always being one of the first to answer my questions, no matter how noobish or stupid they were.

Here's a few pictures of my 80ish % completed model. I still need to add fasteners, motor mounts, bearing mounts, and probably a few other things.

The machine will have a cutting area approximately 40"x27"x5". I'm considering extending the X out to 48" so that it can work an entire strip cut from a 4'x8' sheet. Most of the machine will be made from 1/2" baltic birch plywood. I'll probably use a bit of MDF here and there.

-Andy

Lionclaw
10-28-2005, 12:13 AM
So far I've ordered the following parts:

(2) 6' 1/2-10 Acme Rod (Enco, $22.25 shipped)
(12) 1/2-10 Acme nuts (Enco, $12.80 shipped)

(3) Dumpster AB Nuts W/ Square Flange ($51.00 shipped)

(16) abec-7 Skate Bearings (ebay, $12.90 shipped)
(10) 1/2"x9/8"x3/8" Shielded Ball Bearings(ebay, $15.90 shipped)

As of now I've recieved the acme nuts, acme rod, and 1/2" bearings. The bearings look like very nice quality. The markings on them are "1616-Z" and "CGB"(or maybe "CG8"?). I was going to order them from McMaster at nearly $6 each. I saved almost $50 by getting them on ebay. They are a perfect fit for the acme rod.

For the Z axis, I'm planning on using 2 pieces of 3/4"x12" hardened precision ground steel rod (mcmaster 6061K34). For Z bearings, I'm currently planning on trying 3/4" bronze flanged-sleeve bearings (mcmaster 2938T19), unless someone can convince me otherwise. They're only $0.88 a piece, so if I get them and decide not to use them it's no big deal. If they don't work I might try milling out my own acetal bearings.

zoltan
10-28-2005, 01:18 AM
Wow...SUPER design. It is GREAT. May I ask you to share with me your plans?

Thank you.

Zoltan

PS: What CAD software did you use to design. I have acces to SW.

Lionclaw
10-28-2005, 02:18 AM
I definitely plan to share my work. The model has been created in solidworks. I was hoping to post both the solidworks model as well as a set of PDF plans laid out similarly to what JGRO did.

The only downside to my design at this point is many of the parts are too complex to cut by hand. The torsion boxes use ribs with lots of notches and curves. Many of the dimensions I chose for this machine were picked simply because it would make the parts a size small enough to be cut out with my JGRO machine. I'm sure someone could come up with a way to simplify them.

But, learning from my own experiences as well as others, I've tried my best to eliminate sources of flex from this machine. As you see by looking at the Z carriage, I've tried to add a lot of structure.

I'm hoping that others can help point out possible problem areas in my design. I want to get this thing as perfect as possible before I build the prototype, and even then, I'm sure I'll learn a lot more from the prototype.

I'll have, at minimum, the solidworks files posted as soon as I finish adding the missing elements of the model.

jmytyk
10-28-2005, 03:12 AM
Hey! did you break into my computer? haha, just kidding, our designs are remarkable similar. i have a working area of 25x50x5? (Remember MDF is one inch bigger than 4'x8')

a few comments / questions. do you see any benefits of having the pipes extend through their respective ends? (ie. the gantry uprights and end-plates) i was going to leave mine inside the end plates so that i can have a bit of torsion adjustment on the Y-axis (25" axis). then compress the gantry together with threaded rod.

Also on the threaded rod idea, I was going to borrow Gerry's threaded rod idea of tying the top and bottom of the Z-axis together. the thought being, the rod would counter act the pressure being transmitted through the structure by the bearings pressing against the tubes.

Z-axis is a dumpster find of a linear bearing type carrier...

Gerry's threaded rod idea
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=644

Check out a slight difference in the placement of the x-axis tubes (long axis))

( in the drawings, red lines are threaded rod lines)

thanks in advance for everyone's feedback... _Jon

jmytyk
10-28-2005, 03:15 AM
(oops, missed an image)

Lionclaw
10-28-2005, 03:17 AM
I let the pipes run through the ends so I could pull them together with threaded rods at the end.

I like Gerry's Z design too. But, I seem to remember him posting in his log that it was flexing, and that he was going to box it up.

zoltan
10-28-2005, 04:16 AM
Thank you for answer. It is great for me even if the parts should be build on CNC router. Also, it does not matter if the design is not fully refined. I am ready to start to build Joe's second machine, and your design came as a true opportunity for an improved machine. Sorry for pushing you but do you think that it is possible to share with me the plans even in this stage as, let's say I can hardly wait anymore to start building the machine.

Thank you.

Zoltan

Lionclaw
10-28-2005, 04:33 AM
Lol, I know how that is Zoltan. I've got to crash right now, but I'll be back online tonight between 2100 and 2330 PST. I'll see what I can throw together then, and hopefully we can exchange IM information so I can get some feedback as you try to make some of the parts.

-Andy

ger21
10-28-2005, 06:36 AM
I let the pipes run through the ends so I could pull them together with threaded rods at the end.

I like Gerry's Z design too. But, I seem to remember him posting in his log that it was flexing, and that he was going to box it up.

I'd still use the threaded rod to keep it tight, but yes, you do have to box it in, or it will move in both directions.

That looks pretty cool, btw. :)

spalm
10-28-2005, 02:30 PM
Dang those are pretty drawings. My designs are always so kludge looking.

I see that you have a lot of rabbets on your Z structure, but I think it still needs some thought. Two forces are going to work on destructing this box.

1) When the bearings are tightened, over time it will want to separate at the back top or back bottom. I don’t see anything really holding it together.

2) When the router it attached, it will want to parallelogram forward, again because the back edges won’t stop it.

A couple of suggestions to help this:

Add a ¼” ply skin to the sides with the square hole routed out. (This really makes another torsion box).

Or

Remove the all the side pieces and replace with a single ½” slightly oversized plate with a square hole routed out, and dados cut into it for the other four sides to lock in.

Or

Extend the back above and below and dado in the top and bottom plates.

Or

Extend the back stiffeners to a “C” shape to hold down the top and bottom.

Or

Do Jerry’s threaded rod concept.

Or

Something like that.


This is going to be fun to watch,
Steve

jmytyk
10-28-2005, 05:03 PM
Hey Andy, Steve hit on the same idea i was trying to say- with the bearings pushing the thing apart. (Thanks steve) = threaded rod idea. Although this is a good one as well:

"Remove the all the side pieces and replace with a single ½” slightly oversized plate with a square hole routed out, and dados cut into it for the other four sides to lock
in."

either idea, do you think you could gain some clearance under the gantry? in my design "ideally" i would like to have as much clearance as possible. -giving more flexiblity in the Z if my needs change.

My crappy CAD screen shot didn't show the x-axis threaded rod, and the Y-axis, thanks for the mistake catch...

(now how to add in adjustment so that that the Z axis is perpendicular to the table?)

BTW- Does any one have the pin out using Mach2 and a CNC4PC board?

_Jon

Lionclaw
10-29-2005, 01:36 AM
Thanks for all the great comments. I see what you guys mean, and I agree it might be a problem. It looks like most of the stress at the top will be towards the center, and there isn't really a whole lot of support there. I think I might try adding "L" shaped stiffeners. I'll go model it out and see what you guys think.

As for gaining clearance under the gantry, the best bet on this design would probably be to raise the torsion box a few inches and lower the point where the router mounts a few inches(extending parts as necessary). I mainly cut parts out of thin materials, so I didn't give Z clearance and travel a whole lot of consideration.

ger21
10-29-2005, 11:41 AM
Just do what Steve said, and what I'm going to do. Add 1/4" side panels to the Z-axis and box it in. Make it a pretty close fit to the tubes, and you could add some type of wipers to keep the tubes clean, maybe felt or something.

One thing you might want to llok into, is increasing the spacing of the X-axis bearings. The farther apart they are, the stiffer the gantry will become, at the expense of a longer machine.

And as for Z-axis clearance, if you know you won't need it, keep it as low as possible. The higher it gets, the weaker it gets.

Jason Marsha
10-29-2005, 12:13 PM
Nice machine Andy. The design looks strong and rigid and with the extra support, most if not all flex should be minimized. I have found that a problem with the wooden machines is the tilting (twisting) backwards of the gantry axis (the one with the z-axis attached) when the spindle is plunging into the work.

Jason

Lionclaw
11-04-2005, 02:32 AM
I've been doing some thinking about my Z axis bearings. I'll probably go ahead and order the bronze bearings just because they're cheap. As a backup plan I've decided to make some bearings out of UHMW PE. I made a sample out of 3/4" MDF just to see how it would turn out. I'll try making one out of UHMW once my steel rod arrives and I can test the fitting.

Lionclaw
11-06-2005, 02:32 AM
I've made some changes to the model.

The walls of the Z carriage are now single 1/2" thick pieces with 1/4" slots in them. This should make it a lot stronger, reduce the number of parts I have to make, and make it much easier to assemble.

I've also extended the table out to 60" and widened the base of the gantry to 10", so the effective cutting area will be about 26" x 50" x 6". This will make it the perfect size to cut parts from quarter sheets, or the 2'x4' "handypanels" sold at many building supply stores.

I still want to tinker with the gantry walls a bit to make them look better. I'll see what I can come up with.

I'd love to hear more ideas and suggestions!

Lionclaw
11-06-2005, 05:27 PM
I just got back from my local home depot. I intended to buy 2 sheets of 1/2" baltic birch and my pipes. I took my calipers with me this time, and to my dismay I found that 1/2" plywood is really ~.463".

So now I have the option of adjusting my model for this, or using MDF in more places than I had planned. I'm not exactly sure what to do. I think I'll check out a few actual lumber yards before I make a final decision.

ger21
11-06-2005, 06:35 PM
Home Depot's around here don't have Baltic Birch. Real Baltic Birch is 12mm. 1/2" Birch plywood is ~15/32. Most hardwood plywood is 1/32" undersize for thickness.

Lionclaw
11-06-2005, 07:12 PM
Gerry, when you built your table did you take into account the thickness and adjust your model? I'm wondering exactly how sloppy the box would be if I kept the .5" rib slots.

I'm also wondering what the consequences would be of building the torsion boxes from MDF if I went that route. I'm a bit concerned it might sag a little over the 60" span of the table. I'd still use baltic birch plywood in the gantry walls and probably a few other places if I went that route.

ger21
11-06-2005, 07:53 PM
Gerry, when you built your table did you take into account the thickness and adjust your model? I'm wondering exactly how sloppy the box would be if I kept the .5" rib slots.

I'm also wondering what the consequences would be of building the torsion boxes from MDF if I went that route. I'm a bit concerned it might sag a little over the 60" span of the table. I'd still use baltic birch plywood in the gantry walls and probably a few other places if I went that route.

Yes, mine is 3/4 Baltic Birch; all the notches/ slots are 18mm. But my top and bottom are 1/2" MDF. You should be OK building the whole thing out of MDF, but it will be a bit heavier. It's the skins that keep a torsion box flat, not the ribs. Sorry I don't have any real life experience other than the one I built. Mine is flat and doesn't sag. If it were me, I'd re-model it for the correct thickness, and not use MDF. Your call, though.

It should only take 5 minutes to change that in Solidworks, right? :)

spalm
11-07-2005, 11:15 PM
Looking good.

60 inches huh, that’s long. Are you using 1” pipe for the long axis? It seems like you are from the drawings. I used .5” and wish I had used larger. Gerry used mondo pipe. I was cocky and trying to prove a point about the strength of the box. The pipe will add strength also. My pipe also did not conform exactly to the cutouts so some slop entered in because of this. I solved some of it by drilling holes in the side of the pipe and inserting #10 bolts to bolt it to the box. Just something to consider after testing. A thought that I had (if you fear that you might have flex at this length) is to widen the top skin of the box to its full width now. Looks like you have the clearance. This will keep swarf away from your bearings and allow you to add a stiffener (wood or angle iron) on the top sides later if you need it. (Or build a thicker box)

I know it is early and there is no long lead screw in the drawing, but consider driving it with twin screws at each side. Maybe don’t start that way, but just consider it and allow for it as an upgrade. I am only driving mine from one side and I can move the other side back and forth about a ¼” no matter what I do about bearing pressure. I think it is inherent in this type of design. Maybe a stronger built gantry would have solved this for me. The twin screws would help this a lot, either two motors, or one motor and a belt.

Too much to think about,
Steve

Lionclaw
11-08-2005, 01:22 AM
Thanks for the ideas Steve. I'll be using 1" galvanized pipe, which has an OD of about 1.3". I've definitely given some thought to twin screws. I think I'll go with a single down the center for now and consider upgrading later. The only parts that will change are the box under the gantry and the table end supports. I could even make the parts now that will accomodate both configurations.

The extra cost won't be too high to upgrade. I'd need 1 extra 6' acme screw($7), one extra dumpster nut($17), one extra motor controller(? PICStep $30?), one extra motor($39), an extra coupler($6), and 4 more acme nuts($4). So for about $100 it would probably be a good upgrade. If I just do it now it would save me on shipping in the long run. So I guess it's something to think about soon.

Jason Marsha
11-08-2005, 08:12 PM
Andy,

I used galvanised pipe when I first built my JGRO and discovered that it is rather uneven and not always perfectly round. I ended up using shafting rod, so you may want to consider another option such as drill rod.

Jason

Lionclaw
11-08-2005, 08:58 PM
Jason, I've noticed the same thing with my Jgro. If I put a straight edge up to the X axis pipes it becomes very obvious that they aren't very straight. It seems like each store has different quality materials. Some stores have had nice gas pipe, others have had twisted rusty pieces. The store nearest to me has some very clean and straight looking segments of galvanized pipe. I'll take it over to the tool counter and check it with a drywall square before I buy it ;)

ger21
11-08-2005, 09:00 PM
For the record, the 2" I've gotten at Home Depot is very straight and round.

spalm
11-08-2005, 10:53 PM
Gerry’s EMT does look really good in the store and on his machine. Straight and smooth. Here are some prices for 10 foot sections at my Home Depot from a couple of months ago:

EMT
2” = $20
1½ “= $16.50
1 ¼”= $13.50
1” = $8.50

Black Gas Pipe
2” = $28
1 ½” = $22
1 ¼”= $18
1” = $13

So it is cheaper than black pipe too. Might want to give it a look see. Dimensions are I.D. and the EMT has a thinner wall.

Steve

ger21
11-08-2005, 11:08 PM
I've measured it with my cheap caliper, and I get a pretty consistent 2.1" anywhere I've measured it.

Lionclaw
11-09-2005, 09:25 PM
Here's a picture of most of my parts. The only thing not shown is my threaded rod.

I picked up a few more goodies at McMaster yesterday.

(3) 1/4" coupler, Buna-N Spider, 1/2" coupler
(2) 12" x 3/4" Thomson Precision Steel Shaft
(50) 1/4"-20 Steel Tee Nut
(2) Plastic Two-Arm Knob 1/4"-20

You can also see my homemade PE bearings on the rods. They turned out nice. I'll probably be buying my lumber this weekend and getting this thing started. I'm expecting to get a lot of work done over the thanksgiving holiday.

joecnc2006
11-10-2005, 12:11 AM
Good Man Running Mach3 in the background... Thats what I use and love it.

Lionclaw
11-13-2005, 07:51 PM
I went and bought my plywood yesterday. It's some nice looking stuff. I can't believe how much lighter and stiffer the parts made from 1/2" birch ply are vs 1/2" mdf.

I ended up pulling an all nighter last night and managed to get my Z carriage all put together.

Big thanks to those who gave recommendations on this part. It ended up being so much easier to assemble with the single piece sides, and I'm sure it's much much stronger.

Lionclaw
11-15-2005, 02:53 AM
More of the router is done, and I've learned a bit as well. I haven't been taking care of my router bits and it came up and bit me in the rear. Once they get all gunked up they don't cut very well. I'm using amonia to clean them for now until I get a chance to order some bit cleaner.

My project for today was getting all of the ribs cut for the torsion box that runs along the Y-axis. As you can see, I ended up opting for black gas pipe after all. The selection of galvanized at my local HD didn't turn out as good as I thought it was. Most of the EMT at the HD was bent up as well, so I'll just make do.

ger21
11-15-2005, 07:24 AM
Oven cleaner will clean bits fast and easy, but it's nasty stuff.

Rance
11-15-2005, 09:35 AM
Andy,

How are you guys attaching the ribs? Are they interlocking with the stringers or are they just glued in place with a butt joint? Thanks.

Rance

jimmyd7
11-15-2005, 09:46 AM
Have you decided what material you are going to use to fill the voids in the torsion box? I was at a local autombile repair center this week and they had a demonstration of this foam like material for punctureless tires on display. This stuff was nearly solid, with very little give. It seemed heavy and dense compared to construction foams of similar nature. Your new machine is looking great! Keep up the good work.

Lionclaw
11-15-2005, 11:24 AM
Gerry, I think I've got a can laying around. I'll try that. The amonia works, but you have to soak for quite a while.

Rance, the ribs are interlocking.

Jimmy, I wasn't planning on filling the voids, although that might be a good idea. Two 1/4" skins will be glued to the torsion box.

Rance
11-15-2005, 07:33 PM
Guys,

Beware of the expanding foam, it has LOTS of strength. If used improperly it could warp your box all to whack. Different foams act differently. One can I used (for an unrelated project) did fine the first 5 minutes of use. I looked back at the next day and it had PUSHED a wooden panel out a quarter of an inch. And that panel was the one with the hole in it where I sprayed the foam into the cavity. I'm not saying don't use it, I'm just saying beware of its strength, both when you spray it as well as the next 24 hours. If you use it, let us know your results. :)

Rance

jimmyd7
11-15-2005, 08:55 PM
If you glue one side of the torsion box on, then fill from the open side until it fills the voids, and then wait until it cures you will find that it will overflow. Now... once it is cured, you can cut/sand/scrape the excess away, and then glue your other side on. You can be careful when applying the foam and allow for expansion, limiting the overflow to be removed. Just an idea.

spalm
11-16-2005, 12:01 AM
Andy,
The only reason to fill the inside of the box is acoustic. Without any filler you may detect a drum sound when tapped or if the pipes don’t seat well, a creaking noise. This will probably be drowned out with the sound of your router and/or your vacuum. I have used pink fiberglass with marginal results. Jimmy’s idea will work fine also, but heh…

Steve

2muchstuff
11-16-2005, 12:13 AM
Another sugesstion regarding the spray foam. After it has "cured" and you have trimmed it, take a cardboard box that your item will fit into, put your piece in, punch a hole in one end to fit a hair dryer. Turn the hair dryer on medium and let it sit for about 2 hours running. Then turn it off and let it cool. You will be amazed how much it has re-expanded. Just think if your box had gotten warm, like in the garage. It would have popped everything apart.

Lionclaw
11-16-2005, 03:58 AM
Here's a few more pics of my progress.

I was a bit anxious to get it assembled, so I opted not to try foam. The y-axis torsion box is completely assembled. My next chore is to build the rectangular torsion box that bolts between the bottom of the gantry walls.

As it is now, the assembly is extremely rigid. It's nice being able to tighten the bearings down to the pipes without having to worry about them bending.

With my current Jgro router, it's really a chore to adjust everything. If I don't tighten down enough, there will be slop between the bearings and pipes. If I tighten it too much the pipe will bow.

I can't wait to get the entire gantry put together!

Lionclaw
11-17-2005, 03:05 PM
Some electronics news. I got 3 a3977sed chips in the mail today. I was originally planning on going with the PICStep, but the cost would have been about double that of the a3977 board, and I would have had to buy/build a PIC programmer.

I plan on milling the PCBs on my current machine. I'll have to experiment a bit to learn how to do it. I thought about going with toner transfer, but then I still have to drill all of the holes and deal with the messy chemicals. FeCl at my local electronics store isn't cheap either. At the cost of all the stuff it would be almost the same to buy the nice looking commercial PCBs from Phil.

I'll probably use the 276oz bipolar motors from automation direct, unless someone has a better idea. I know I'll lose a bit of power since I can only run them at 2.5A, but that's the way it goes.

joecnc2006
11-17-2005, 06:37 PM
I just finished putting together the Hobby cnc and went for the 4axis one just incase I come up with a good design for an addon lathe type that i can just lay onto the table. And I got the 200oz motors from him running at 3a.

Jason Marsha
11-17-2005, 08:34 PM
Andy,
Looking great so far, keep up the good work.
JAson

karbunkle1952
11-17-2005, 11:59 PM
I have found a source for ballscrews nuts and washers. I'd like the learned among us to please give an opinion. Is this vendor to good to be true, about average or higher in price. This site has 640 oz/in Model # RHT34-640: $99.99 motors and Gecko G201 $107.00 (If purchased with a motor). http://www.homeshopcnc.com

I'm planning on building a Gantry system the size of Lionclaws with a usable cutting area of 24" x 48" and cutting 3/4" mdf cabinet parts as well as vacuum form patterns. So there will be some 3D stuff probably 6" of z travel.

My other question is: What PC Control software will run the three axis steppers for true 3d cutting not just 2 1/2 D? DeskCNC,Mach3,TurboCNC?
I've been hunting around the forums for a while and it seems Lionclaw is the closest to the design and size I am striving to build. I'm an electronics moron at this point, with enough knowledge to make myself dangerous.

I hope the link above works out to be a deal as I would like to contribute in exchange for advice on controlling the steppers. :wave:

Lionclaw
11-18-2005, 12:58 AM
Joe: I used a HobbyCNC board on my first machine too. They're really the most bang for the buck out there. I just want to give bipolar motors a try on the new machine, and hopefully learn something by making my own boards.

Karbunkle: I don't have a lot of experience with milling 3d models. The only bits I've done were with MeshCAM and Mach3. MeshCAM will make you the gcode, Mach3 will run it for you.

hulkonna
11-20-2005, 05:05 AM
where can i find full details forGerry's threaded rod idea?

Lionclaw
11-20-2005, 06:28 AM
Take a look at Gerry's build log. His build looks very professional.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1356&page=1&pp=40

ger21
11-20-2005, 08:42 AM
Andy, does the Z-axis rock or tilt from front to back at all? I see the adjustment bolts to tighten the top bearings down to the pipe, but is there any play in the plate that holds the angle on top? Are you able to get it pretty tight on the pipes?

Lionclaw
11-20-2005, 02:20 PM
I can't get it to rock or tilt at all. The plate has a fairly tight fit between the inside walls of the z carriage. I can tighten it to the pipes fairly easily. I'll probably end up using some locktight on the adjustment screws once I get the whole thing done, or perhaps add a nut and washer to the top of the adjustment screws to lock them in place.

joecnc2006
11-20-2005, 03:53 PM
I'm about 1/2 done with My New Machine in Solidworks, What size Z axis Steel Rod did you order from McMasters?

Also I thing I have come up with a way to keep the Y Axis (Gantry) from rocking forward and backwards, I will Post the Drawing Real Soon.

Joe

Lionclaw
11-20-2005, 06:28 PM
Joe, I'm using 3/4" hardened precision ground rod. It's nice stuff.

I just finished off the torsion box that goes under the table. I was originally planning on just making a simple 4-walled box, but I'm hoping the torsion box will make it much harder to rack the gantry.

I cut a hole in the bottom to allow access to the AB nut. I'm very happy with the way it turned out.

Next project is the gantry walls, then I'll tie the gantry together with 6 pieces of 1/4-20 threaded rod.

This thing is turning out to be very stiff and somewhat heavy. I'll probably have to lower the acceleration values in Mach3, but I guess stiffness comes at a price.

Lionclaw
11-20-2005, 06:39 PM
Here's a shot of the updated model.

joecnc2006
11-20-2005, 07:18 PM
This thing is turning out to be very stiff and somewhat heavy. I'll probably have to lower the acceleration values in Mach3, but I guess stiffness comes at a price.

Yea I can only Imagine how heavy mine is going to be.

What leadscrews?

Joe

Lionclaw
11-20-2005, 07:41 PM
What leadscrews?

I'll be using 1/2-10 acme screws for all three axis.

joecnc2006
11-20-2005, 08:03 PM
have you desided on a coupler from acme 1/2 to the 1/4" motor shaft?


I'll be using 1/2-10 acme screws for all three axis.

Lionclaw
11-20-2005, 10:44 PM
I've got some lovejoy couplers I'll be using. The ends of the screw will be supported by some 1/2" ID radial bearings I found on ebay.

anoel
11-21-2005, 12:48 AM
what's the overall foot print going to end up... It's looking pretty darned beefy...

Lionclaw
11-21-2005, 01:48 AM
The table with the end pieces installed is 63" long and 29" wide. The gantry sticks out a few inches front and back however, so you need clearance for 36".

randyf1965
11-21-2005, 09:37 PM
I built a torsion box for my Y axis from 1/4" plywood ribs and 1/4" skins..... light weight and so far VERY strong. Used 1/2 lap joints (think that is what they are......each piece has a notch halfway thru and the opposite piece slides over) and used Gorilla glue and nails.

I even made the uprights for the Y axis the same way. lighter than a pice of mdf the same size but strong.

Lionclaw
11-22-2005, 10:20 PM
The gantry is now mostly assembled. The table will be my next big chore.

Anyone have any ideas on how to hold it flat while I glue it all together? I've been using the machined flat on the cast iron of my table saw up until now, but that won't be anywhere big enough...

joecnc2006
11-22-2005, 10:27 PM
Looking very good so far, Is it pretty sturdy? also on mine i'm adding two side pieces as well to the lower gantry linear bearing adjustment just to prevent the top piece from rolling upward from having just screws in from rear of it from the side of the gantry.

Joe

spalm
11-22-2005, 11:32 PM
Andy, this has been fun to watch. You’re making quick progress. It looks massive. Do us a favor and weigh the gantry before you install it. Not sure what it will mean, but it may supply some interesting data. I think that I see that you do have some additional holes through the bottom box if needed. Good move.

Build the bed box on the garage floor if you want a large flat surface. Or use the kitchen floor (flowers help here).

How are you keeping your Z rods from lifting out of their sockets? Are you pleased with the bearings that you made?

Steve

Lionclaw
11-23-2005, 01:45 AM
It's very sturdy so far. I've tried pushing on the top of one gantry wall towards another and notice no deflection that way. I am also unable to rack the gantry any noticeable amount. I tied the box together with 6 pieces of threaded rod that run through the gantry, 4 at the base, and 2 at the top.

The kitchen floor is probably the best idea. The floor in the garage is concrete, and it's probably the least flat out of all the floors.

The Z rods will be locked down by a motor mount plate on top. I was originally planning on drilling and tapping the bottom end, and bolting it to the bottom plate, but drilling through the hardened surface of the rod seems like too much trouble.

There's currently about 26.5" of travel along the Y axis, and the gantry is 35.5" from end to end. I'll drop it on the scale and see what it comes in at.

Edit:

I'm pretty happy with the Z bearings. They don't slide as smoothly as I expected, but they're adequate. I'll probably make some that aren't as tight once I get the new machine going.

Rance
11-23-2005, 06:54 AM
Yeah, floor is about your best shot at a large surface. You should measure it for flatness before you start (Kitchen or garage). You might be surprised. Nice work. I mean VERY nice work.

ger21
11-23-2005, 07:11 AM
Get a piece of 3/4" MDF big enought to assemble the table on. Lay it on the table saw, and where it overhangs, use saw horses (anything that will work, really) and shim it until it's perfectly flat. Floors in houses are not necessarily flat, and you really want it as flat as possible.

jgro
11-23-2005, 09:57 AM
Here's a more detailed explanation to what Gerry said: http://www.diynetwork.com/diy/shows_wwk/episode/0,2046,DIY_14350_26946,00.html

jgro

Lionclaw
11-23-2005, 01:34 PM
Thanks for the link, the kind words, and helpful ideas.

I've got some of the table pieces cut already. With the 4 day weekend here, hopefully I can get the table assembled and see this thing work. I still need to build a workbench to put it on as well, so there's lots left to do.

It's great to hear from you jgro :) So many people are getting a start in CNC with your plans. There's a good chance I would have just given up from the start if not for your plans.

Jason Marsha
11-23-2005, 07:54 PM
That good looking work Andy, keep it up.

Jason

paulC
11-24-2005, 03:20 PM
Hi Andy,
Did you end up making the Z axis bearings you were planning?
I was thinking about having a go at making something similar and not having seen any commercially manufactured plastic bearings was wondering about the notches in the bearing surface. Is this a common feature? I assume it is to allow dust to get past the bearing rather than move into the bearing surface.
Paul

ger21
11-24-2005, 03:30 PM
not having seen any commercially manufactured plastic bearings

McMaster Carr #2570K13

paulC
11-24-2005, 04:01 PM
I know they are available. Just have never seen one personally and was wondering about how I would make one myself.
Paul

Lionclaw
11-24-2005, 05:46 PM
I did end up making my own. You can see them in some of the pictures, as well as an MDF prototype.

They work fairly well. I'll make new ones with my new machine for better concentricity. The slots reduce friction as far as I know.

paulC
11-24-2005, 06:12 PM
Great, thanks for that.
I'm going to copy a lot of what you have done on my next machine. Your torsion boxes in particular. Really like what you have done.
Paul

Lionclaw
12-04-2005, 10:11 PM
Per Rance's request, I'm posting a picture of my current "accident waiting to happen" driver board. This is definitely a no-no. The power supply parts are sitting on the shelf with the driver board dangling from one of the motors. I noticed the rectifier was resting on a piece of aluminum angle, which I've since removed. The little desk fan blows on the driver to keep it cool.

This should be an example of what not to do. For a good example, check Rod's new build log or the nice custom box Joe put together. I'll probably go with a box like Joe's on my new machine.

Lionclaw
12-16-2005, 02:52 AM
Some updates. I finished the table last week. Now I just need to make the end pieces for it.

I hooked up the 200oz hobbycnc motors from my current machine to the new gantry. It still needs some tweaking, but as is I'm very happy.

Here's a video of it in motion. The Y axis is running at 140ipm and the Z is running 100ipm. Sorry the video is crappy. I need to get a new digital camera.

http://www.comptonsoft.com/P1010005.MOV

zoltan
12-16-2005, 05:40 AM
what codec I must use to see your video?

Zoltan

Lionclaw
12-16-2005, 07:30 AM
Unfortunately the only format my camera can do is quicktime.

spalm
12-16-2005, 09:24 AM
Hey Andy, Looking good. That’s some nice speed. I am impressed. Your homemade Z bearings working OK?

The video was fine for me.

Good job,
Steve

Lionclaw
12-16-2005, 10:13 AM
I can't say that I'm 100% satisfied with them, but they are acceptable. They don't slide as easily as I would have thought. I'll probably make some new ones out of acetal once I get the machine done.

Lionclaw
12-16-2005, 12:23 PM
I'm making my solidworks models available to anyone who wants to tinker with this design. If anyone has ideas for upgrades/modifications/attachments I'd love to see or hear about them.

Keep in mind I've had no formal cad training, so there might be some quirkiness in my models. I know there's some sort of mating problem in the main assembly, but I haven't had time to reassemble all the parts. If you see something stupid I'm doing please tell me so I can at least learn and fix it.

The main assembly is gantry_mill_assy.SLDASM.

You can get the file here:
http://www.comptonsoft.com/lionclaw_cnc_001.zip

It's about 5mb.

Keep in mind the model is not complete in all aspects. I've made a few modifications during construction that aren't yet reflected in the model. I've mainly changed hole sizes I believe... I'll have to go back and double check everything.

anoel
12-16-2005, 01:47 PM
This is turning out very nice... And might qualify for the definitive "Hardware store" machine.

I'll be waiting for the final result, What I'm waiting for is for you to get into a cutting stage and withthe Z lowered and and with bit in the spindle and report if you've got any flexing to speak of when trying to deflect it by hand. I need to build an upgrade to my current machine and really don't have the $$ to build the all metal machine that I'd like to. So I might go this route if it will be as rigid of a machine as I think that it will.

Looks like it will handle a full size router as well. What are you planning to use as a spindle?

Lionclaw
12-16-2005, 01:53 PM
I'll be using the craftsman 1.5hp router that's currently on my jgro machine. I've looked at getting a nice variable speed PC, but the prices are a bit steep. I might settle for the variable speed version of the craftsman router.

Edit: Just thought of something else. One reason I wanted to go with the PC was that you can use different collets with it. The craftsman does not. To use 1/8" bits I had to buy an adapter which has a set screw. This makes the 1/8" bit off centered by a few thousandths. Does anyone have any suggestions for a better adapter? I was going to try to make one on my Dad's "new" lathe... but we're still painting it, and we won't have good tooling for it anytime soon.

joecnc2006
12-16-2005, 02:11 PM
I'll be using the craftsman 1.5hp router that's currently on my jgro machine. I've looked at getting a nice variable speed PC, but the prices are a bit steep. I might settle for the variable speed version of the craftsman router.

I am very impressed with your wood working skills and your machine (don't tell anyone but i took some of your ideas also... and others, spalm, ger21...plus added a few of my own in my new Model 2007 machine...lol)

If you use a single speed router, here is what i did with my rotozip, Use a Ceiling fan motor variable switch (Not a var. light switch) splice it into the middle of an extention cord then place it into a plastic wall plug box, then a lightswitch cover and your done a variable speed router control for a total cost of $10.00.

Looking forward to more on your build.

Joe

Lionclaw
12-16-2005, 02:20 PM
Thanks Joe.

I'm tempted to try the light dimmer idea. I'm a bit worried though. My router has a small circuit board with 4 diodes, 2 resistors, a transistor, a capacitor, and an LED on it. I don't know if modifying the voltage would hurt the router. I removed the circuit in my first craftsman, thinking it was just there to power the LED, and said router nearly caught fire as it shot bits of metal all over my garage.

anoel
12-16-2005, 02:26 PM
This is supposedly a very nice collet adpater... and it's a squeezing type. not a setscrew. I think Eric (Balsaman) was using these at one point.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=30126&cat=1,46168,46180

This is supposedly a darned nice variable speed router for $99 too...

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=16371

Lionclaw
12-16-2005, 02:28 PM
Awesome, thanks Anoel. Ordering one now.

Joe, just realized you said ceiling fan controller and not variable light switch. I've got a junk ceiling fan out in the garage. I think I'll go pull it apart. If the router explodes again I guess it would motivate me to buy a good one ;)

joecnc2006
12-16-2005, 02:58 PM
Awesome, thanks Anoel. Ordering one now.

Joe, just realized you said ceiling fan controller and not variable light switch. I've got a junk ceiling fan out in the garage. I think I'll go pull it apart. If the router explodes again I guess it would motivate me to buy a good one ;)


Its a wall switch for ceiling fan speed (a dial) just make sure it is the motor one not for the light, sells for about 5-7 dollars at lowes i think.

spalm
12-16-2005, 03:17 PM
Andy, did you already order? Consider the M12VC which is variable speed for $30 more.

(The M12SC is fixed speed controlled to 24K rpm. The M12VC is 8k to 24k.)

I just got a factory recon Bosch 2 1/4hp 1617EVS for $120.

Steve

Lionclaw
12-16-2005, 03:30 PM
I ordered the collet adapter. I think I'll give Joe's fan controller suggestion a try before going with a new router.

spalm
12-16-2005, 03:47 PM
Ooops. Good move.

joecnc2006
12-16-2005, 04:56 PM
If you did not want to make your own here is a good one also.

http://www.rockler.com/findit.cfm?page=10760

joe

kram242
12-20-2005, 07:59 PM
Must watch!

Lionclaw
12-20-2005, 08:27 PM
With all the pipe talk in Joe's thread I figured I'd post my pipe plans.

I'm going to sand my gas pipes. I've been waiting to get my lathe put back together so I can use that to do the job. The paint sticks to the bearings and is just too annoying. I'm thinking I'll sand off the paint and polish the pipes. Then I'll use a file to rough up the spots where it joins with the ribs and epoxy it in place. Finally I'll put strips of tape where the bearings will run and then paint the whole thing. A bit of oil should keep the exposed area from rusting.

joecnc2006
12-20-2005, 08:46 PM
With all the pipe talk in Joe's thread I figured I'd post my pipe plans.

I'm going to sand my gas pipes. I've been waiting to get my lathe put back together so I can use that to do the job. The paint sticks to the bearings and is just too annoying. I'm thinking I'll sand off the paint and polish the pipes. Then I'll use a file to rough up the spots where it joins with the ribs and epoxy it in place. Finally I'll put strips of tape where the bearings will run and then paint the whole thing. A bit of oil should keep the exposed area from rusting.

Man thats going to look cool, you can paint them any color you want, Very good idea, Also wanted to tell you i started using White Lithium grease on my leadscrews and it works good for now, got a tube at lowes for 2.00 not sure what you use or others use.

Joe

ger21
12-20-2005, 08:53 PM
Make sure if you epoxy them in place the they are perfectly straight, or you'll have a big problem when the epoxy cures. Why not just hold the ends in place and let the bearings hold it against the frame?


Joe, doesn't the grease colect a lot of dust?

joecnc2006
12-20-2005, 10:45 PM
Joe, doesn't the grease colect a lot of dust?

I use a shopvac as a dust collection and it eliminates alot of dust but i have not had a problem yet with it. Its easy enought to clean off, What do you Use Lionclaw??

kram242
01-19-2006, 11:28 AM
Any updates!?

Lionclaw
02-10-2006, 04:37 AM
Sorry I've gone so long without any updates. I just finished the router tonight, minus a few small pieces of hardware I'll pickup over the weekend.

Everything seems good so far. I got my lathe mostly rebuilt and used it to sand and polish the pipes for the X axis, still need to do the Y axis. I epoxied the pipes in place and I'm very happy with the alignment. As Steve previously mentioned, the torsion boxes might making a creaking noise when running the carriage around. The epoxy locks the pipes in place and completely eliminates the creaking.

I'll get some pictures posted this weekend.

Now I just need to build a dust extractor and a workbench and I'll be set.

kram242
02-10-2006, 10:59 AM
Cool can't wait to see it!

zoltan
02-10-2006, 11:18 AM
Hi,

It seems that your link does not work. I tried to download your drawing files and it did not work. Could you, please, make them available for downloading? I am really interested on.

Thank you.

Zoltan

Lionclaw
02-11-2006, 03:05 AM
I'll check on the files here in a min.

Here's a few pictures. Lathe before overhaul (yes it's old), lathe after overhaul dwarfing old JGRO machine, and new machine.

Jason Marsha
02-11-2006, 04:03 AM
The machine looks good Andy, post more pics when you can.
What's the cut area on that baby.

Jason

Lionclaw
02-11-2006, 04:06 AM
50"x26"x6". I haven't used it to cut anything out yet, but soon :D

ger21
02-11-2006, 08:38 AM
It's not finished?? There's no paint yet. ;)

spalm
02-11-2006, 11:52 PM
Paint, Schmaint.

I want to see it cut.

Steve

Lionclaw
02-13-2006, 05:16 PM
I'll eventually get around to paint :wee:

I cut out some parts for the dust evac stuff. I'll post more pictures soon. I'm very happy with the 1/4" to 1/8" adapter from Lee Valley. The router seems to cut much smoother than when I used the rotozip adapter. Tolerances were awesome for a wood machine. One of the MDF pieces I cut out was 2"x8". The 2" side varied from 1.999 to 2.001 depending on where I measured it with my cheapy HF digital calipers. The 8" side varied between 8.005 and 8.008. Obviously I need to do a lot more testing before I can draw any conclusions from these numbers, but they are an encouraging sign.

I currently have the X and Y axis set to rapid at 80ipm, Z at 30. I know I can run Y up to 140ipm, but 80 is probably about the best I'll be able to get from X. Z currently has an 80oz/in motor, so I definitely won't set it higher.

joecnc2006
02-13-2006, 11:31 PM
I'll check on the files here in a min.

Here's a few pictures. Lathe before overhaul (yes it's old), lathe after overhaul dwarfing old JGRO machine, and new machine.

Man that is an old lathe, Your New router is looking very good.

Lionclaw
02-16-2006, 05:49 PM
Thanks Joe. The lathe is a model 1910 AV Carrol. We got it for $100, so can't complain. Just need to make an adapter plate to fit it with a new cross slide and modern tool post.


I fixed the link for anyone wanting to download my SW models. They're available again here:

http://www.comptonsoft.com/lionclaw_cnc_001.zip

scott wiggins
03-12-2006, 11:30 AM
Are the any videos of it cutting? What do you think of it?
Scott

Lionclaw
03-14-2006, 01:49 AM
Hi Scott. I'll take a video of it cutting next time I cut a piece. I just used it to etch a PC board yesterday and I was extremely pleased with the result. Big thanks to 10Bulls and his tutorial! :)

I've added a vacuum attachment since the last batch of photos. I still need to build a box for the electronics. I'll post more photos soon.

Wolfspaw
03-14-2006, 10:46 PM
Lionclaw:

Any chance of posting your Solidworks assembly in eDrawing format with the measurement feature on? The eDrawing publisher should be free to Solidworks users and the viewer is free to all. Joe posted his latest design this way and it was very helpful.

Best regards,

Wolfspaw

Lionclaw
03-14-2006, 11:21 PM
I've never used eDrawings, so let me know if this isn't what you want.

http://www.comptonsoft.com/lionclaw_mill.zip

It's the main assembly with stl export and measurement enabled.

mike hide
03-15-2006, 01:52 AM
I just got back from my local home depot. I intended to buy 2 sheets of 1/2" baltic birch and my pipes. I took my calipers with me this time, and to my dismay I found that 1/2" plywood is really ~.463".

So now I have the option of adjusting my model for this, or using MDF in more places than I had planned. I'm not exactly sure what to do. I think I'll check out a few actual lumber yards before I make a final decision.

My local HD or Lowes sell a product what used to be called shop birch .Neither have ever sold baltic birch . Baltic birch [used to be of Russian origin] is a top of the line plywood and far superior to anything HD or Lowes offer .You might have to seach for it but it will be worth your while .

One other thought the lumber [2by4s] etc sold by these establishments is for the most part construction quality not dried to furniture or precision construction requirements...

Wolfspaw
03-15-2006, 01:06 PM
I've never used eDrawings, so let me know if this isn't what you want.

http://www.comptonsoft.com/lionclaw_mill.zip

It's the main assembly with stl export and measurement enabled.

Lionclaw:

The eDrawing worked just fine. Thanks for sharing it.

Wolfspaw

Lionclaw
03-16-2006, 03:32 AM
Here's some pictures of the router with the vacuum attachment.

I've been tinkering with making PC boards the last few days as well. Attached is a scanned image from a test etch for a 44pin PLCC socket. I've got some finer engraving bits on the way, so I'm hoping it'll get even better.

joecnc2006
03-16-2006, 09:20 PM
LionClaw Looking good, thats an interesting aproach to the duct collection attachment. take some video... :)

joe

spalm
03-16-2006, 10:37 PM
Andy, your PCB work is impressive. It shows that you’ve got good placement ability. Keep us posted on bits that you use. Do you have some Gerber to Gcode converter going?

The vac attachment is cool. Do you like how it works?

Steve

Lionclaw
03-17-2006, 01:01 AM
Hey guys. It's hard to see exactly how the vac works from the pic. There's another hose on the other side. The vac hoses attach to the collector offset so that a swirling motion takes place as air is drawn into the hoses. So far it seems to be working very well.

I'm really excited about making my own PCBs. I used a half round .007 bit to do the etching. I've also got a set of random carbide drills ranging from .0098 to about .050. I'm planning on making some boards with 8051 controllers. I thought I would have to use the 40pin dip packages, but it looks like the 44pin PLCC packages are definitely in the realm of possibility now.

For PCB gcode I used 10Bulls' eagle tutorial. Now I need to get me some tin plating solution.

mattbyrne
03-26-2006, 09:11 PM
LionClaw,

Great looking machine. I'm thinking of building my 2nd machine and using your drawings. My first machine is loosely based on JGRO plans.

Would you please share the process you go through from SolidWorks modeled part to cnc cut part? As as experiment I took your z bearing and tried to cut a test part in mdf. Here is what I did:

Created part drawing from the part model you supplied. Exported drawing to dxf. Iported dxf to autocad. Moved features of drawing to layers. Opened dxf files in Sheetcam. Created g-code. Opened g-code in Mach3 and cut part. All thought this is straght forward it is very time consuming going back and forth between the diffrent application to tweak things untile everything is just right. Is there a better way?

Can you please share your process of cutting all the parts neccessary to build you machine?

Matt

Lionclaw
03-26-2006, 09:40 PM
Hi Matt.

To get my files to g-code I first make a 1:1 drawing of my part in solidworks and save it as a dwg file. I then open the file in Autocad and use PEDIT to group the line segments and curves into closed polylines. I then offset the closed polylines by the radius of my cutter. For areas with pockets I fill the pocket with polylines offset by the diameter of the cutter. Finally, I delete the original closed polylines, set the depth of each polyline, and run Gerry's autocad-gcode macro.

It isn't the most elegant way to do it, but it works fairly well. I used this method to cut nearly all of my parts. I don't do enough with my CNC to justify purchasing a full-scale CAM package.

mattbyrne
03-26-2006, 10:42 PM
Wow, seems very tedious. Are you using Mach3? If so, would you be willing to share the g-code files you generated? If you still have them.

What type of bits are you using for drilling holes?

Lionclaw
03-26-2006, 11:01 PM
It can be tedious, especially if it is an intricate part.

I do use Mach3, but I no longer have the original g-code. I clear my g-code folder from time to time when it gets too cluttered.

All of the holes on my machine are bigger than .125, so i just route them with my 1/8" end mill.

mindstorm88
03-27-2006, 06:38 AM
Hi guys , i read all that thread , and this new design is great , but may be too difficlult for me to cut out right now , so i intend, as i first planned, to build the JGRO machine , but before i start do you have any good tips/hints that i should now before on how to reduce the flaws of that machine ???

My first machine is a small Brute from Kleinbauer , so too small to help in construction of a new one !!!!

Bruno

ger21
03-27-2006, 08:18 AM
Next time you're going to cut out a part, send it to me and I'll show you how to use my macro the way I do, which may be a bit faster. I wrote my macro to make it easy to use cutter comp (G41/G42) so you don't have to do the offset in AutoCAD. I really should do some tutorials on how to get the most out of it.


Hi Matt.

To get my files to g-code I first make a 1:1 drawing of my part in solidworks and save it as a dwg file. I then open the file in Autocad and use PEDIT to group the line segments and curves into closed polylines. I then offset the closed polylines by the radius of my cutter. For areas with pockets I fill the pocket with polylines offset by the diameter of the cutter. Finally, I delete the original closed polylines, set the depth of each polyline, and run Gerry's autocad-gcode macro.

It isn't the most elegant way to do it, but it works fairly well. I used this method to cut nearly all of my parts. I don't do enough with my CNC to justify purchasing a full-scale CAM package.

lemonyx
03-27-2006, 05:17 PM
Next time you're going to cut out a part, send it to me and I'll show you how to use my macro the way I do, which may be a bit faster. I wrote my macro to make it easy to use cutter comp (G41/G42) so you don't have to do the offset in AutoCAD. I really should do some tutorials on how to get the most out of it.


Please :) do make some tutorials as I'm still a pre-noob :violin: to all this CNC "stuff".

Lionclaw
07-15-2006, 03:35 AM
It has been a while since I last posted, and I figured it was about time for an update on my machine. I recently built a new rolling table for it as well as an enclosure for the electronics. I've also switched over to sintered bronze bushings for my Z axis. They're cheap and they work extremely well on the thomson rod.

http://www.comptonsoft.com/cnc/images/cnc_real.jpg

Lionclaw
07-15-2006, 03:51 AM
I've also managed to finish the SW model of my CNC machine. The model now includes all hardware. I've also made some modifications to the machine to make it both easier to assemble and more rigid.

I'll be making a few CNC kits for friends who have asked for them. I'm currently putting together a set of detailed assembly drawings and instructions. I'll be posting the instructions shortly.

If anyone is interested in a kit please drop me a PM. I plan to make them very affordable.

http://www.comptonsoft.com/cnc/images/completed_cnc.jpg

Lionclaw
07-15-2006, 04:17 AM
If anyone is interested in viewing my updated edrawing files you can download them at http://www.comptonsoft.com/cnc/lc50.zip

A copy of my work-in-progress assembly manual can be found at http://www.comptonsoft.com/cnc/lc50man.pdf

zoltan
07-15-2006, 06:44 AM
Do you have also the Solidworks files?

Thank you.

Zoltan

mindstorm88
07-15-2006, 12:57 PM
Andy , what is the cutting area of your machine ???

HayTay
07-15-2006, 01:54 PM
Andy , what is the cutting area of your machine ???

Mindstorm88,

Take some time to look at the eDrawings and Instruction Manual that LionClaw has provided in his post #129. Lots of good stuff to ponder with more to come as Andy updates & refines his documentation.

From page 2 of the manual:

Travel
X Axis......... 1270mm (50.0 in.)
Y Axis.......... 670mm (26.3 in.)
Z Axis.......... 160mm (6.3 in.)


I hope this helps with your build planning,

HayTay

mindstorm88
07-19-2006, 11:30 AM
Hi Andy ,
Do you have your machine in DWG files? , i have your march files in Edrawing , but dwg would be great for me , I intend to use my near ready JGRO , to build your design !!!

Bruno

mindstorm88
07-21-2006, 11:00 AM
Andy , i have installed Solidworks , how do i save it in DWG ? when i open one of your drawing the "save as" doesn't show DWG o DXF !!!!

Bruno

Lionclaw
07-21-2006, 05:46 PM
Mindstorm, PM sent.

I've managed to layout and cut the first batch of parts. I'm going to partially assemble the first kit and use it to help write the assembly instructions.

For anyone interested in a kit, I intend to make them available at $300 + shipping. The kit would include all of the necessary wooden parts with exception of the skins for the large torsion box, which would simply be too costly to ship. You should be able to cut your own from a single sheet of 12mm (1/2") baltic birch plywood. I would also be willing to provide and machine the aluminum angle pieces at $10 each.

The wooden parts will all be 12mm (1/2") baltic birch plywood, with the exception of the 3-piece table supports at the ends of the large torsion box. I may use a sandwich of birch-mdf-birch.

I'll keep everyone updated as this project progresses.

http://www.comptonsoft.com/cnc/images/sheet_1_parts.jpg

ninthmp
07-22-2006, 08:48 PM
I have been a lurker for awhile now and I love the look of your cnc. First off thanks for all the hard work you have put in, but I was wondering if you have either dfx,dwg or solidworks files that you wouldn't mind sharing. Thanks

silver4dracs
07-22-2006, 08:55 PM
I would be interested in purchasing your parts. Please PM me with details.

Lionclaw
07-24-2006, 06:42 AM
silver4dracs, PM sent.

For those requesting dxf and solidworks files, I'm still trying to decide how best to distribute these. I have invested a lot of my time creating these models and building prototypes, and I would like to protect that investment. At the same time, I want our community here to benefit from them, much as we all have from JGRO's hard work. So far I've especially enjoyed seeing the modifications Joe has made.

Those who recieve kits will definitely be recieving a copy of the files in order to allow them to upgrade, modify, redesign, or fabricate additional parts. I will still however need to contemplate more before deciding whether or not to post the final version of the Solidworks part and assembly files.

-Andy

Lionclaw
07-24-2006, 06:55 AM
Before I crash for the night, I wanted to post my latest modification. I've been having problems keeping wires organized and out of the way. A plastic cable carrier seemed to be the best option, but seeing as I like to DIY as much as possible and save money where ever I can, I came up with this.

http://www.comptonsoft.com/cnc/images/cable_carrier.jpg

mindstorm88
07-24-2006, 12:36 PM
Next time you're going to cut out a part, send it to me and I'll show you how to use my macro the way I do, which may be a bit faster. I wrote my macro to make it easy to use cutter comp (G41/G42) so you don't have to do the offset in AutoCAD. I really should do some tutorials on how to get the most out of it.

I'm trying to figure it out but as a newbie, i'm stuck , any easy trick you can explain ???

Thanks

Bruno

Castlestone
07-25-2006, 09:46 AM
Andy
I've been lurking on this thread since the beginning and of all the wood router plans out there - I think this one is the greatest.
As you are working out how you are going to bring this kit "to market" could you consider offering a "template kit" that would include ONE of each of the components. Those of us with basic woodworking skills could easily replicate the required number of components to complete an assembly. Should cut down on the cost of shipping considerably and a bit of cutting and handling time for you.
In fact a complete set of templates out of 1/4 inch masonite (hardboard) would probably work just as well.

Thanks for sharing the good work.

Mike

joecnc2006
07-25-2006, 08:44 PM
Before I crash for the night, I wanted to post my latest modification. I've been having problems keeping wires organized and out of the way. A plastic cable carrier seemed to be the best option, but seeing as I like to DIY as much as possible and save money where ever I can, I came up with this.

http://www.comptonsoft.com/cnc/images/cable_carrier.jpg

Thats a nice and simple solution, good work.

Joe

HayTay
07-25-2006, 09:49 PM
Before I crash for the night, I wanted to post my latest modification. I've been having problems keeping wires organized and out of the way. A plastic cable carrier seemed to be the best option, but seeing as I like to DIY as much as possible and save money where ever I can, I came up with this.

http://www.comptonsoft.com/cnc/images/cable_carrier.jpg

Did you use left-over bearings on the 3 hinge points, just bolts and washers, or some other method to keep the arms swinging freely?


Without followers there would be no use for those who lead,

HayTay

Lionclaw
07-27-2006, 10:12 PM
I only had 2 spare bearings, so I ended up just going without. For now it just uses bolts/lock nuts/washers.

Madclicker
07-27-2006, 10:30 PM
Mindstorm, PM sent.

I've managed to layout and cut the first batch of parts. I'm going to partially assemble the first kit and use it to help write the assembly instructions.

For anyone interested in a kit, I intend to make them available at $300 + shipping. The kit would include all of the necessary wooden parts with exception of the skins for the large torsion box, which would simply be too costly to ship. You should be able to cut your own from a single sheet of 12mm (1/2") baltic birch plywood. I would also be willing to provide and machine the aluminum angle pieces at $10 each.

The wooden parts will all be 12mm (1/2") baltic birch plywood, with the exception of the 3-piece table supports at the ends of the large torsion box. I may use a sandwich of birch-mdf-birch.

I'll keep everyone updated as this project progresses.

http://www.comptonsoft.com/cnc/images/sheet_1_parts.jpg

I'm pretty up on my plywood (fabricate it for a living) and I don't see any baltic birch here.

Lionclaw
07-28-2006, 01:05 AM
All of the pieces in that picture are 1/2" (12mm) baltic birch plywood. The stuff has 7ish plys. It's from home depot.

ger21
07-28-2006, 06:05 AM
Does it come in 5x5 sheets? That's what size Baltic Birch usually is. And no HD's around here carry it.

mindstorm88
07-28-2006, 06:07 AM
Usually Standard size for it is 5x5 , it is from Europe !!!

mindstorm88
07-28-2006, 08:30 AM
Hi Andy,
i have your solidworks drawings
"lionclaw_cnc_001.zip" dated March 24,2006 , are all the measurement good in it ?, i could transfer them to ACAD , cause i would like drawings not offset !!! I'm getting good at using Gerry Macro !!!

Bruno

BTW your mailbox is full , couldn't sent you mail !!!

Lionclaw
07-28-2006, 12:30 PM
There are two home depot locations that I visit here in southern california that carry it. It's a 4x8 sheet. The sign calls it baltic birch ply. *shrug*

Would a closeup pic help? Maybe it's some other variety?

ger21
07-28-2006, 01:21 PM
You *can* get Baltic Birch in 4x8, but it's not very common. If you don't mind, how much is it? I'd expect $40-$45 for Baltic Birch

Madclicker
07-28-2006, 10:16 PM
I have to pay $55 for real baltic birch 4x8...yea wierd size, but works well for me. I also get china birch from my cabinet supply shop for $25 for 4x8. Much better than the home depot or lowes stuff. Certainly much cheaper.

Lionclaw
07-28-2006, 11:58 PM
The birch at HD is $30 for a 1/2" sheet. I'm going to check some of the local specialty lumber suppliers and see what other types they cary.

ger21
07-29-2006, 08:58 AM
It's probably not Baltic Birch. With Baltic Birch, The face veneers should be the same thickness, or very close to the same thickness as the core veneers. If the face is very thin, 1/32 or less, it's not Baltic Birch. Post a close up of the edge and we can tell for sure.

Lionclaw
07-29-2006, 02:30 PM
I tried snapping some photos, but my old camera isn't very good with macro shots and they're all fuzzy.

The face does appear to be much thinner than the inner plys.

If this is not baltic birch plywood, then should I be demanding my money back from home depot for the 5+ sheets I've purchased there? The sale tag clearly identifies it as baltic birch plywood.

ger21
07-29-2006, 02:41 PM
I don't think you paid what Baltic Birch actually should have cost.

Lionclaw
07-29-2006, 03:05 PM
Ah, light bulb might be going off in my head. Would this stuff be something like the china birch madclicker was talking about?

The sign at HD might not have said baltic... I just never even thought of the possibility that there were different varieties.

Lionclaw
07-29-2006, 03:10 PM
I tried a few google searches. What other's are selling as "baltic birch plywood" appears to be the same stuff I've got.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=846

http://www.boulterplywood.com/ProductGallery_41.htm

ger21
07-29-2006, 03:17 PM
That Rockler pic doesn't look like Baltic Birch. Here's a picture of 1/2" Baltic Birch, on 5/8" mdf, on cheap 3/4" Birch plywood. I had a hard time getting it focused good, too.

Lionclaw
07-29-2006, 03:22 PM
I definitely see the difference. Any idea what the picture on Rockler's site is of? Or the other site? Could it be a different grade/quality of baltic birch?

mvaughn
07-29-2006, 03:27 PM
I checked the Home Depot here in the North West and it is only labeled as Birch Plywood, not Baltic. It also has a thinner surface sheet than the core layers.

Lionclaw
07-29-2006, 03:36 PM
Mvaughn, I was wondering if that might be the case. Thanks for checking.

Well, in any case, is anyone arguing that this material is any less suitable to build our homebrew CNC machines with? It's definitely an improvement over mdf. HD sells oak hardwood ply for just a few dollars more. Lowes sells Luan. Are either of those materials a better option for CNC building?

I guess I'll just have to be careful to only refer to it as "birch plywood".

Lionclaw
07-29-2006, 04:08 PM
One last post before I take off for a while.

I've decided to go ahead and post my updated solidworks files. The files have been cleaned up and adjusted for a material thickness of 0.475".

Download Here (http://www.comptonsoft.com/cnc/lc50_cnc.zip)

Enjoy!

Please let me know if anyone has any ideas for further improvement of the machine!

Madclicker
07-29-2006, 08:18 PM
Sounds like the China birch I use. 7 layers of something, not birch, skinned top and bottom with a paper thin birch veneer. 1/2 baltic birch is 9 equal thickness layers of birch. Even though the china birch is very good plywood, it's no match for the quality of baltic birch.

Madclicker
07-29-2006, 08:29 PM
The pic on the Rockler site looks just Like the china birch I buy. The pic ger put up looks like the baltic birch I use. No mistaking the 2 products.

Lionclaw
07-29-2006, 09:22 PM
Ok, that makes sense then. I'll check out the luan and hardwood oak ply to see if they also have the thin veneers. If not they might be more suitable.

As you can see on the back of the gantry, part of the veneer peeled off after sanding. I plan on painting the next one I assemble though, so I guess it won't really matter. I would prefer it not do that however, so I guess something with uniform plys would be preferable.

Tazzer
07-29-2006, 09:33 PM
With all the discussion of which birch to use, what are the benefits of using 7 ply, vs 9 ply vs mdf etc..

Madclicker
07-29-2006, 10:41 PM
With all the discussion of which birch to use, what are the benefits of using 7 ply, vs 9 ply vs mdf etc..

I prefer mdf for this type of construction and not just because it's a whole lot cheaper. MDF is much more dimensionally stable IMO.

ger21
07-29-2006, 10:48 PM
With all the discussion of which birch to use, what are the benefits of using 7 ply, vs 9 ply vs mdf etc..

It's not the number of ply's, it's the actual type of plywood. As was mentioned, Baltic Birch is made up of equal thickness layers of birch veneer. No other plywood uses hardwood for both the face and core. This makes Baltic Birch much more stable than any other type of plywood. Most other plywoods available now are made in China, and use some type of Chinese wood for the core. From my experience, Chinese plywood does not stay flat for very long, and when it warps, it warps a lot. Maybe that's due to our humid Michigan weather, but it warps more than any cabinet grade plywood I've ever seen. We stopped using it at work, because it was to difficult to hold down with vacuum once it started warping.


As for the benefits. MDF is cheap, stable and easy to work with. It doesn't hold screws well, though. Baltic Birch is stiffer and stronger. And costs about 3 times more than MDF.

While I wouldn't use any plywood other than Baltic Birch, if you can keep it flat, it should work fine.

Lionclaw
07-29-2006, 11:30 PM
My major gripe with MDF is its weight, susceptibility to moisture, and the fact that it breaks apart so easily. It doesn't take much to crunch the corners on a piece of MDF.

I'd agree that MDF is more consistant and does a better job maintaining flatness.

Even so, my machine hasn't twisted itself apart, or warped itself to pieces. So I don't see why you guys are dragging on like this. I started this thread back in October, and this is the first I'm hearing of this.

Have I stepped on someone's toes? Angered someone? I noticed two people voted "Pessimo" on my thread as well...?

I'm not trying to upset anyone.... If I owe anyone an apology for something just let me know...

mindstorm88
07-31-2006, 06:30 AM
:p oupssss

ger21
07-31-2006, 09:08 AM
Have I stepped on someone's toes? Angered someone? I noticed two people voted "Pessimo" on my thread as well...?

I'm not trying to upset anyone.... If I owe anyone an apology for something just let me know...

Everyone's fine.....Just doing a little clarifying. ;)

kram242
08-24-2006, 03:33 PM
Do you have a homepage where you are selling these kits? Or do we just PM you?
BTW Great Job, Best looking machine I've seen here in a long while.
Mark

scott wiggins
09-03-2006, 10:30 PM
Any updates??

zachjowi
09-27-2006, 10:28 PM
your router looks awsome. do you have an updated/complete set of PDF gude? Do you have any really nicely detailed drawings/models becuase I plan on making one very much like yours but larger.

thanks

zachjowi
09-30-2006, 03:35 PM
how wide are the vertical boards that are attached to the partial circles that are attached to the two outside pipes? Also what is the radius of the curves on the pipe attachment pieces?
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11972&d=1132041208
thanks

yham
10-02-2006, 08:07 AM
Hi Lionclaw,

I am wondering how to order your kit?

DeWalt58
10-03-2006, 09:24 PM
Hi Lionclaw,
Was wondering if your going to post any more news on how your router is working, paint job pictures and such....??? Think you did a great job and interested in building it myself. Is there a future to this thread???

IRCantankerous
10-10-2006, 01:23 AM
Lionclaw, I want to thank you for your hard work and hours of time with little reward. Your machine looks great!

zachjowi
10-10-2006, 05:49 PM
Do you have a homepage where you are selling these kits? Or do we just PM you?
BTW Great Job, Best looking machine I've seen here in a long while.
Mark

it doesn't seem that he has been responding to us very quickly. I emailed him using the email in his partial pdf plans, but haven't been emailed back yet.

he must be working on the machine and to busy to respond:)

Lionclaw
10-11-2006, 04:59 PM
Hi all. I apologize for the lack of updates. Things have been really crazy the last few months with work and school.

I have resumed work on assembling the first few kits. I'm still checking into shipping, as I have no experience shipping something like this. If you live in southern california and wish to pickup a kit that can also be arranged. The kit will include all wooden parts with the exception of the table top/bottom, which can be cut from a single sheet of birch plywood, or even MDF if you should choose to go that route.

I'll have pictures and more info very shortly.

kram242
10-13-2006, 11:24 AM
Hes Back! Yay!!:)

Lionclaw
11-21-2006, 04:04 AM
Hi all! Lots of updates.

I've gotten some more work done on my user manual.

http://www.comptonsoft.com/cnc/lc50man.pdf

I made some modifications to the machine as well. I have increased the walls of the gantry to 3-ply. Plywood-mdf-plywood. My current machine works very well with 2-ply (plywood-mdf), but I believe 3-ply will be even better.

I put together the first prototype kit and ordered a pack of boxes which will be large enough to ship all of the pieces. I've also started an online store through which I'm hoping to start offering the kits for sale. The prototype is currently the only item listed for sale.

If anyone is interested feel free to poke around at http://www.comptonsoft.com/cnc/

More updates to come!

Jason Marsha
11-21-2006, 08:01 AM
We will be awaiting some pics. Took a look at the pdf, quite impressive.

Jason

joecnc2006
11-21-2006, 09:53 AM
Very nice looking, you did better job on assembly manual than i did, I was not intending for it to be a full blown manual but just a guide. you offer a low cost kit which will be good for alot of people.

looking forward to seeing more.

Joe

paulC
11-21-2006, 04:31 PM
Real nice.
Just a thought. You may need to stress what the kit doesn't include. Steppers, controller, router etc. You don't want customer complaints about being misled. One ranting unhappy person can offset 100 happy customers.
Paul

mike hide
11-21-2006, 06:17 PM
As a total novice,as mentioned each axis has to be as stiff as possible to avoid flex in the axes . The open structure in the cross beam needs to be completely skinned in with plates front and back to form a closed structure . That would include gluing all surfaces to the plates, not only the end ribs but all ribs .

Seems the nemisis of most designs is gantry flex . Again as a complete novice the culprit is the moment generated by the force exerted by the drive nut on the cutting tool and the distance between them. If the force exerted by the nut and the tool at the work piece were coplanar then the moment could be at least minimized .

The preceeding would probably require two nut drives, one each side of the bed [talking about the X axis] raised roughly to the cutting tool workpiece axis. Perhaps a little less elegant machine but a more practical one . Currently this moment is resisted by the fore and aft bearing pairs on the side pipes which results in some pipe flexure and any for and aft bearing slop which ends up with gantry movement Magnified by the distance between the tool and the pipe .....

Madclicker
11-21-2006, 11:53 PM
I've also started an online store through which I'm hoping to start offering the kits for sale. The prototype is currently the only item listed for sale.

If anyone is interested feel free to poke around at http://www.comptonsoft.com/cnc/

More updates to come!

Interesting! I, also, started building an online store recently using osC:

http://shopmatetools.com/

I'll soon offer complete machines. Looks like great free SW. Only had a few evenings to work with it, but kinda figured it out to the point where I know it will do what I need.

mike hide
11-22-2006, 12:46 AM
I definitely see the difference. Any idea what the picture on Rockler's site is of? Or the other site? Could it be a different grade/quality of baltic birch?

It might well be a product called "shop birch", to me a step up from regular construction plywood but several steps down from true baltic birch.

As far as I know baltic birch still comes in metric sizes ,we have yet to persuade the Russians to produce it in 4 by 8 sheets .

mike hide
11-22-2006, 02:39 PM
As a total novice,as mentioned each axis has to be as stiff as possible to avoid flex in the axes . The open structure in the cross beam needs to be completely skinned in with plates front and back to form a closed structure . That would include gluing all surfaces to the plates, not only the end ribs but all ribs .

Seems the nemisis of most designs is gantry flex . Again as a complete novice the culprit is the moment generated by the force exerted by the drive nut on the cutting tool and the distance between them. If the force exerted by the nut and the tool at the work piece were coplanar then the moment could be at least minimized .

The preceeding would probably require two nut drives, one each side of the bed [talking about the X axis] raised roughly to the cutting tool workpiece axis. Perhaps a little less elegant machine but a more practical one . Currently this moment is resisted by the fore and aft bearing pairs on the
side pipes which results in some pipe flexure and any for and aft bearing slop which ends up with gantry movement Magnified by the distance between the tool and the pipe .....

Generally the aft bearings willwill experience a download and the front ones an upload due to the working loads in addition the trucks will experience the static gantry loads distributed according to where it,s centre of gravity is located . Of course one other the effects of the working moments is to space the bearing pairs further apart resulting in increased bed length with little or no increase in working area .....just some thoughts comments and corrections welcome .......

Madclicker
11-23-2006, 03:19 AM
It might well be a product called "shop birch", to me a step up from regular construction plywood but several steps down from true baltic birch.

As far as I know baltic birch still comes in metric sizes ,we have yet to persuade the Russians to produce it in 4 by 8 sheets .

I don't know why, but my local cabinet supply gets me baltic birch in 4x8x(exactly)1/2". They only started carrying it for me when I relocated here. I only use it for tooling because it's so expensive. For my painted cabinets and cabinet innards I use china birch, which is less than half the price of baltic birch. The birch ply that Lowe's and Home Depot carries here is somewhere between the quality of the china birch I buy and their construction ply.

Lionclaw
11-26-2006, 02:50 PM
Thanks for all the info guys. And good idea on the descriptions Paul. I'm going to have to spend some time fleshing out the descriptions for the kit. It's really tough when you're a one man operation. I've got my lovely lady to help out with labeling parts and shipping, but everything else is still a lot of work.

Lionclaw
11-26-2006, 03:02 PM
One thing I was wondering... is anyone interested in a fully assembled kit? I'm considering building one of the kits in order to fully document the build process, and allow me to provide better instructions in the assembly manual.

The only downside is I wouldn't be able to ship such a large item, and it would have to be picked up in Fullerton, CA.

dan dimock
12-09-2006, 11:42 AM
I want to build my own, are you going to offer plans?
Dan Dimock

dneisler
12-09-2006, 11:58 AM
When will you have kits ready to ship?

Lionclaw
12-15-2006, 04:12 PM
Dan - I'm going to continue to offer the solidworks models and the assembly manual for free. I don't currently have any plans to put together DXF drawings however, but that could change.

Donald - Right now I have the prototype kit ready to go. It's exactly the same as the standard kit, only some of the parts have very minor blemishes, nothing that will be noticeable once assembled. I just lowered the price on the prototype in order to make it more appealing and get it moved out! If you want a regular kit the lead time is about 1.5 weeks. Feel free to place an order (i've got the shipping modules working on the site) and I'll start building your kit right away.

I'm currently updating the site with more pics and better info.

Lionclaw
12-18-2006, 07:47 PM
I'm getting ready to ship out my first kit. I went ahead and laid out all of the parts so I can inventory everything before I pack it all up.

Jason Marsha
12-18-2006, 08:05 PM
Looks good Andy, now you need to get some orders out so that they can be built over the holidays.

Jason

kram242
12-18-2006, 09:19 PM
How much is a kit going to run?

Lionclaw
12-18-2006, 09:57 PM
I've currently got the kits listed for $350 in my oscommerce store here http://www.comptonsoft.com/cnc/

The kit includes all of the wooden pieces except the table skins, which are just too large to ship. Basically everything you see in the pic above is included in the kit, plus a few small wooden parts not shown.

I also plan to start offering the aluminum brackets and packages containing all required hardware tidbits.

I'm trying to do my best to make it as quick, painless, and inexpensive as possible for people to get their own machines put together.

kram242
12-19-2006, 08:02 PM
Good deal thanks.
Merry Christmas
Mark

Lionclaw
12-27-2006, 11:41 AM
Just a quick update. I shipped out my first kit yesterday. I went a bit crazy on the packaging supplies. I ordered boxes, peanuts, and a poly strapping kit from Uline. Labels, tape, and foam from elsewhere.

The kit is protected on top and bottom by a 1" thick foam sheet. Foam peanuts are used as filler. The poly straps should keep the box together nicely.

I'll be putting together 3 more kits this week and with any luck I'll have the user manual completely finished by new years.

I'm still taking orders through my website at http://www.comptonsoft.com/cnc/ if anyone is interested. Feel free to e-mail me or drop me a PM if you have any questions.

joecnc2006
12-27-2006, 11:54 AM
Good work Andy, look forward to some of your machines being built.

Joe

Lionclaw
12-27-2006, 12:06 PM
Thanks Joe ;) It's been really neat seeing all the Joe CNC threads popping up. And to think... this all spawned from needing to cut Haas-PJ panels over at lumenlab. It's been a fun ride, and I've really learned a lot!

Marm
01-04-2007, 12:06 AM
Hey Andy nice job. I am thinking of making a CNC machine now after reading your's and Joe's thread. I never persuaded it before because I did not want to put a huge chunk of change into one without deciding if it was something I would get a lot of use out of.

Just a FYI you have to check your birch plywood to make sure what country it is made in. The local Menards had some birch plywood that had more plys than the normal stuff and after I started to use it I realized it was from Canada and it was metric so it was a tad smaller.

Thanks for posting the plans and all your hard work.

Mark

Lionclaw
01-04-2007, 12:21 AM
Hi Mark, thanks for the post!

CNC as a hobby is really a blast. It leads to so many other fun hobbies as well. I have a long waiting list of things I want to pursue on my machine. Model airplanes, wooden clocks, ornamental nick nacks. I didn't know a whole lot about machining when I found the CNCZone, and It's really been amazing seeing all of the different ways you can manufacture interchangeable parts.

I found out about the thickness issue the hard way. After I realized my plywood was 12mm I had to go back and redo all of my models. I've now got them adjusted to where it'll be easy to adjust next time.

I suppose that's one big advantage when using MDF. For the most part, it seems if it says 1/2", it usually is (give or take a few thousandths). A lot of people seem to prefer MDF to plywood mainly due to its very consistent nature. I'm just starting on making an MDF version of my machine. I think I might be able to design it so that it could be produced with hand tools.

I'll be out of town for a few days, but I'll probably start a new thread for it when I get back.

Lionclaw
01-09-2007, 11:06 AM
I tried something new with my machine last night. I needed to make an adapter to allow me to hook my new lathe chuck up to my old CJ lathe. No one seems to make backplates with my oddball thread. I used my cnc to mill it out of .55" aluminum plate.

So far I am very happy. I've got it all assembled and the runout on the chuck is less than 0.001".

I put together a quick video of the machine in action on youtube.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GfyqfKahA8A

Jason Marsha
01-09-2007, 11:29 AM
Very impressive Andy.

What was your machine time overall.

Jason

Lionclaw
01-09-2007, 04:46 PM
I believe it was about 90minutes. I probably could have gone faster, but this was my first time cutting aluminum plate, and I was a bit nervous about how well it would work.

I also should have used a 1/4" endmill instead of the 1/8". The main pocket took most of the machining time.

jcdillin
01-09-2007, 04:56 PM
I believe it was about 90minutes. I probably could have gone faster, but this was my first time cutting aluminum plate, and I was a bit nervous about how well it would work.

I also should have used a 1/4" endmill instead of the 1/8". The main pocket took most of the machining time.


Thats really awesome, what software did you use to make the toolpaths?

Lionclaw
01-09-2007, 05:13 PM
I used autocad and Gerry's AC2GC macro.

jcorrea
01-14-2007, 12:17 AM
Hi,

A well made wood CNC router. I have never made a wood CNC router before and your design look to be a good starting venture. The kit option is a big plus for me. Just one question, how do you hold the 1in pipe into the table? That the only part of the assembly I cannot visualize.

Thank,
Jorge

Lionclaw
01-14-2007, 02:55 AM
Hi Jorge. The pipe is actually epoxied in place. I considered many other options such as holding it from the ends, but I did not want it to have any room to shift. So far it has been working very well after a year of regular use.

dan dimock
01-14-2007, 04:46 AM
I am runing windows xl and I can download the plans, but cannot open them, what do I need to do to be able to open them and print them out.
Thanks
Dan

Lionclaw
01-14-2007, 04:50 AM
Dan, are you trying to download the assembly guide on the website? That's an adobe acrobat file. The other files I have distributed throughout this thread are from the solidworks viewer and also models for solidworks itself.

dan dimock
01-14-2007, 07:33 AM
I have adobe 7 , but as I see it I will have to have two other programs, before I can print out these plans, is this correct?
Dan

Lionclaw
01-14-2007, 07:58 AM
Which files are you trying to view? You'll only need one program, it could just be any one of the three depending on which files...

dan dimock
01-14-2007, 08:27 AM
I can print out the book on page 13 of the posts, but cannot open the plans that you posted on page 11, so I guess that I will need the solid works program to open it, I hate to invest in a program that I would use only once or very little.
Thanks
Dan

ger21
01-14-2007, 08:31 AM
Dan, try this. It's free. http://www.solidworks.com/pages/products/solutions/viewer.html

dan dimock
01-14-2007, 09:16 AM
Thanks all of you so much for the help - Now I can get on with this.
Dan

arrio
01-19-2007, 12:17 PM
Andy,... How goes the assembly manual?

dan dimock
01-19-2007, 12:57 PM
Andy

I notice that you are using Gerry's AC2GC - MARCO program with AUTOCAD, where can I find Gerry's program.
Also, are you running mach 3?
I am new to this, what software program would you suggest I use to start with?
Thanks
Dan

ger21
01-19-2007, 08:35 PM
Andy

I notice that you are using Gerry's AC2GC - MARCO program with AUTOCAD, where can I find Gerry's program.


http://home.comcast.net/~cncwoodworker/acad/downloads/AC2GCv039.zip

There's a thead here. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8226

Lionclaw
01-20-2007, 01:10 PM
Andy,... How goes the assembly manual?

Alfred, I apologize for the delay. I really intended to have it completed long before now.

I have a more up to date version I'll be posting shortly. I also made some changes to the router carriage(you'll see in the new manual) which I think make it much easier to assemble. I'll be sending you and John another package on Monday.

arrio
01-20-2007, 04:38 PM
Andy, ... Sounds good.
I've not yet started on mine. I'm going to build the table for it first. I've also got a couple other thing in line that need attention before I can start on the router project.
I have all the material/hardware on hand now except for some bolts, nuts and blind nuts. Also have not yet acquired the Z-axis slide bushings/bearings. Had doubts as to what was needed.

tangocc35
01-20-2007, 06:46 PM
Alfred, I apologize for the delay. I really intended to have it completed long before now.

I have a more up to date version I'll be posting shortly. I also made some changes to the router carriage(you'll see in the new manual) which I think make it much easier to assemble. I'll be sending you and John another package on Monday.
Hi Andy:

If I'm the "John" you mention, please Email me before sending anything to me. The original Box was delivered to an Address in Niagara Falls and I'm not planning aniother trip there fro a month or 2

Thanks

John

Lionclaw
01-21-2007, 02:14 AM
E-mail sent John. Let me know what you'd like to do. I know you have another machine available to you, so if you'd prefer to cut the parts yourself I can send you the models/gcode. Otherwise it shouldn't be a big deal shipping up north.

I went ahead and posted an updated copy of the manual here: http://www.comptonsoft.com/cnc/lc50man.pdf

Updated edrawings file can be found here: http://www.comptonsoft.com/cnc/lc50.easm

Marm
01-23-2007, 03:37 PM
Andy thanks for all the work putting your plans for public download. I have a friend who has a CNC and I think that I am going to try and make your machine for my first machine.

Thanks
Mark

Lionclaw
01-23-2007, 04:03 PM
I'm glad to do it. If it weren't for the help and contributions of others here on the CNCZone I would never have really gotten a start on this stuff.

I went ahead and put together some updated solidworks model packages.

This is my plywood version.
http://www.comptonsoft.com/cnc/LC50PLY.zip

This a version dimensioned for .5" and .75" MDF with some minor modifications.
http://www.comptonsoft.com/cnc/LC50MDF.zip

These are about 10mb each.

BMG
02-01-2007, 09:07 PM
Heya Lionclaw.

Kit arrived on Monday. Haven't had the time to do much yet - hoping to get alot assembled this weekend.

Everything looks great - Nice work!

Brian G.

BMG
02-04-2007, 06:42 PM
Lionclaw,

Several of the assemblies you don't have directions for. The X torsion box. I am assuming there are 6 - 1/4 allread that holds the supports on and tightens the table. Did you use bolts on both ends or the tapped in threaded inserts like on the gantry? Same question with the Y rail Torsion box.

Aslo, on the ribs, there is a set of smaller holes that look like they would hold a 10-24 size bolt(s). DId I miss something with these?

Thanks.

Brian G.

Lionclaw
02-04-2007, 10:35 PM
Brian, glad everything got there ok. All of the torsion boxes use 1/4-20 allthread rod to tie everything together. You'll find that one side is larger to accomodate tee nuts. What I ended up doing is cutting the rods to the proper length and welding a hex nut at one end, making it like a long bolt.

Most of the ribs have smaller additional holes which were used as hold down locations while machining. Only a few will be exposed after assemblying the boxes, and they can be filled with wood putty.

I'm attaching the edrawings model. You can download the viewer free here: http://www.solidworks.com/pages/products/edrawings/eDrawings.html

You can right click parts in the list to make them translucent or hidden to see other parts. It will also show all of the parts used in each assembly.


Let me know if you have any other questions, and feel free to msg me on gtalk "Pilotandy" if you run into any problems or need help with something.

BMG
02-17-2007, 10:55 PM
Andy,

Could you post a picture of how you physically attached the Dumpster AB nuts? I am having trouble visualizing this. Also if you could take a shot of the Amce rod assembly, that would help me immensely.

Also, your manual does not have the bolts for the bearing assemblies (the ones that hold the bearings) listed on your master parts list. Unless I overlooked those somehow.

Thanks

Brian G.

Lionclaw
02-18-2007, 06:50 PM
Hi Brian. I attached the dumpster nuts using #6-32 machine screws. You can tap the holes in the dumpster nuts, although it might not be absolutely necessary

The bolts on the 10" bearing rails are 1.25" 5/16. The 6" bearing rails use 1" 5/16 bolts. I used hex nuts on the rail side and nylocs on the other side of the bearings.

I'm attaching two images. They're cutaways of both ends of the leadscrew. On one end you have bearing_mount>bearing>hex_nut>hex_nut.

On the other end you have bearing_mount>bearing>hex_nut>hex_nut>1/2_lovejoy>spider>1/4_lovejoy.

Hopefully that makes sense.

BMG
02-18-2007, 09:20 PM
Thanks Andy,

I spent alot of time the past few days pouring over the solidworks files. I am much more proficient at using edrawings now (used to alot more capabilities with full blown AutoCAD).

I made three trips to HD and Lowes today and at least thant many in the days prior. I am getting nickel and dimed now with nuts and bolts I miscounted previously. In hindsight, I should have been spending alot more time looking over the drawings you provided. That would have saved me alot of heartache. All part of the learning curve.

Back to the anti backlash nuts. Did you mount them with the thread stubs protruding from the face of the mounting holes or threaded through the mounting holes. The holes in the wood are not large enought to thread the nuts through. Not sure if that makes sense.

THanks again.

Brian

dan dimock
02-21-2007, 11:01 PM
I have downloaded the solidworks and the viewer for that program, and also the e-drawings link and I cannot get a plan that I can print out. Can someone please tell me how to go about it?

I would like to build one of this machine, but I need more than the pictures that I have- it would be nice to know the size of some of the parts.

PLEASE HELP ME IF YOU CAN.

Dan

dan dimock
02-21-2007, 11:03 PM
I have downloaded the solidworks and the viewer for that program, and also the e-drawings link and I cannot get a plan that I can print out. Can someone please tell me how to go about it?

I would like to build one of this machine, but I need more than the pictures that I have- it would be nice to know the size of some of the parts.

PLEASE HELP ME IF YOU CAN.

Dan

mike hide
02-22-2007, 02:32 AM
I have had the same problem even though many of the drawings are enabled the mearsurement tool remains greyed out,only the easm drawings work and those are limited.

BMG
02-22-2007, 07:20 PM
The edrawings viewer is clunky at best, but unless you have solidworks it the only thing I am aware of that will open these files.

If you open the Gantry_mill_assembly.easm file, you should be able to get the dimension tool to work on every part. You can also print out each part by hiding everything else and printing the part out. Remember that you can only get 1 dimension to print at a time so expect to do takeoffs for awhile - print 1 - handwrite the rest of the dimensions select another part rinse and repeat.

BMG

Lionclaw
02-23-2007, 04:22 AM
Brian, not sure if I got back to you on the AB nuts. I used 6-32 machine screws and threaded them into the nuts. It's probably a good idea to tap them, but not absolutely necessary.

dan dimock
02-24-2007, 05:04 AM
Andy
Would you please re-post your manual, when I try to download it I get a block saying the file is damage an cannot be repaired.

Thanks so much for all the help you have given me on this project.
Dan

Lionclaw
02-24-2007, 01:33 PM
Just uploaded it again. http://www.comptonsoft.com/cnc/lc50man.pdf

tangocc35
02-26-2007, 11:06 AM
HI Andy:

I have found a part--marked "YC-D", which I cannot identify--either location or purpose.

Can you clarify?? Nice bit of Ply<G>

Thanks

John

tangocc35
02-26-2007, 11:24 AM
Hello Again:

Cancel the previous--it was staring me right in the face!

Sorry to bother you.

John

ballendo
02-28-2007, 03:20 AM
Hello,

This hinged wire support is a bad thing...

Wires will QUICKLY fail if they are subject to a "tick-tock" bending as you've created here. We all intuitively know this because when we WANT a wire to break we bend it back-and-forth uintil it does; which is often sooner than we think!

A Belden Cable engineer that I spoke with many years ago during the design of one of my early cnc's (Belden's "infinity" cable was JUST about to come out) told me that in tests, Belden discovered that a typical cable will begin failing after only about 30,000 flexes of the "tick-tock" type.

Compare this to the rolling motion given by typical cable cariers, which the Belden testing showed to be good for more than 6 MILLION cycles with the SAME cable type!

Intuitively, this makes sense as well. We are now spreading the flex/wear across as much of the wire area as possible.

There ARE inexpensive ways to accomodate/create the HIGHLY desirable rolling motion of commerical cable carriers. I have a pic in my B's stuff folder at the yahoo group CNC-Pics of a huge Cincy mill's cable carrier. It is nothing more than a sheet steel backing (we'd use plastic for machines of the size we see here) with regularly spaced aluminum blocks to carry and direct the rolling motion of the wires and hoses.

IMO wire management is the great lurking problem with MANY of the DIY-CNC builds. The wires WILL break. Many will not realise it at first; been there, done that. Because it will masquerade itself as failing drives, motors, poor mechanical alignment, bad motor driver(s), Encoders, etc.

And more importantly, it will probably end up blowing up drivers and possibly power supplies. Cable management should NOT be an afterthought!

For MANY using poor wire management the clock is ticking. tick-tock,tick-tock, tick....

Hope this helps,

Ballendo



Before I crash for the night, I wanted to post my latest modification. I've been having problems keeping wires organized and out of the way. A plastic cable carrier seemed to be the best option, but seeing as I like to DIY as much as possible and save money where ever I can, I came up with this.

http://www.comptonsoft.com/cnc/images/cable_carrier.jpg

Lionclaw
02-28-2007, 03:29 AM
Ballendo. You are correct in thinking that bending the cable will cause breakage, but if you were to look closer at the way it is attached you would have noticed that the points where it is attached are a good 4-5 inches from the pivot point, thus allowing the bend to form a semi-circle rather than a sharp angle.

Sorry for those who have been waiting on responses or requesting to order kits lately. I'm trying to muddle my way through my last semester of college right now and I'm under a lot of stress. Wedding, commissioning, graduation... all within a few weeks of each other. The next couple months are gonna be CRAZY!

ballendo
02-28-2007, 03:49 AM
Andy,

Yes, I saw that. But it is still a tick-tock motion and not a rolling motion. Just a heads up as it WILL work for awhile; maybe even a "long" while. But it WILL fail sooner than a proper wire carrier technique.

And please don't take this as anything but admiration and constructive criticism. If I didn't think your design was a winner; I wouldn't bother commenting...

Ballendo


Ballendo. You are correct in thinking that bending the cable will cause breakage, but if you were to look closer at the way it is attached you would have noticed that the points where it is attached are a good 4-5 inches from the pivot point, thus allowing the bend to form a semi-circle rather than a sharp angle.

Sorry for those who have been waiting on responses or requesting to order kits lately. I'm trying to muddle my way through my last semester of college right now and I'm under a lot of stress. Wedding, commissioning, graduation... all within a few weeks of each other. The next couple months are gonna be CRAZY!

Lionclaw
02-28-2007, 11:46 AM
I thought about it after posting and I realize what you're saying. Something like an IGUS cable carrier would definitely be the way to go. This was just a simple low cost solution.

I apologize for being a bit snappy. Like I said, lots of stress. Last night I was trying make some signs for someone at my detachment. The plywood they provided was the warpy 1/4" construction grade stuff. Trying to mount and cut it was so extremely aggravating I wanted to scream.

the__extreme
02-28-2007, 02:03 PM
Hi Andy,

I know all about the school stress! I'm in my 4th year of a 5 year Mech Eng & Management program at McMaster Univ. in Hamilton Ontario. What college are you at / which program? PS - really like your machine! I noticed you had the same 84 oz-in steppers on your machine that I have. Maybe they're still there, I don't know if you've upgraded. How did you find they performed? And if you want some G-code done for Mach3, let me know. I have access to Mastercam & Edgecam. I think I can import most CAD types - Inventor, Solid Edge, AutoCAD, etc.

- Shawn

Lionclaw
02-28-2007, 02:45 PM
Hi Shawn. I'm at Cal State Long Beach doing the Computer Engineering program. I've enjoyed the curriculum, but I think I might have been more at home in the ME program. I'm still using one of the 84oz steppers for my Z axis. I upgraded to the 200oz for the X and Y. I did some 3D engraving a few days back and the real slowdown was the Z. For 2D stuff it works just fine. I think i'm going to go with 300+ oz motors on my next machine. I was looking at the kelling 425 oz bipolar motors. I'm mainly just waiting to see how the allegro 3986 drivers work out so I can go that route. I believe they offer better torque at lower speeds, which I'm hoping will work well with the 4tpi threads I'll be using.

ballendo
02-28-2007, 06:46 PM
LionClaw,

No worries. I was just trying to point out that "simple and low cost" up-front may become complex and high-cost (due to flakey operation and repair of the machine) sooner than a person might think.

As for the holding of thin stuff, look into vacuum clamping. Once you begin using it, you'll never look back!

Ballendo



I thought about it after posting and I realize what you're saying. Something like an IGUS cable carrier would definitely be the way to go. This was just a simple low cost solution.

I apologize for being a bit snappy. Like I said, lots of stress. Last night I was trying make some signs for someone at my detachment. The plywood they provided was the warpy 1/4" construction grade stuff. Trying to mount and cut it was so extremely aggravating I wanted to scream.

ballendo
02-28-2007, 06:57 PM
Hello,

Be sure to look at the WHOLE torque curve, and not just the holding torque spec!

It's waaaay too easy to get a "Tim the tool man" attitude about this CNC stuff. ("Mine's bigger'n yours" or "I got the 425's, baby. What wimpy-@$$ motors did you say you were using?!")

An an engineer yo know you don't get something for nothing. And FWIW, folks have been using size 23 motors with 5TPI ballscrews for decades.

Design the WHOLE machine; not just one part.

There is a tradeoff with every choice. Find the proper BALANCE and you will have a great machine. Start going after specsmanship and you might regret it. Bigger is NOT always better. Especially where steppers are concerned. Look at reflected loads to the rotor and inertia matching, for instance.

Power supplies are another place where bigger/more volts is better tends to show up in this DIY-CNc world. Tread carefully there as well, IMO.

Hope this helps,

Ballendo


Hi Shawn. I'm still using one of the 84oz steppers for my Z axis. I upgraded to the 200oz for the X and Y. I did some 3D engraving a few days back and the real slowdown was the Z. For 2D stuff it works just fine. I think i'm going to go with 300+ oz motors on my next machine. I was looking at the kelling 425 oz bipolar motors. <s> I believe they offer better torque at lower speeds, which I'm hoping will work well with the 4tpi threads I'll be using.

mike hide
03-02-2007, 06:35 PM
Hello,

Be sure to look at the WHOLE torque curve, and not just the holding torque spec!

It's waaaay too easy to get a "Tim the tool man" attitude about this CNC stuff. ("Mine's bigger'n yours" or "I got the 425's, baby. What wimpy-@$$ motors did you say you were using?!")

An an engineer yo know you don't get something for nothing. And FWIW, folks have been using size 23 motors with 5TPI ballscrews for decades.

Design the WHOLE machine; not just one part.

There is a tradeoff with every choice. Find the proper BALANCE and you will have a great machine. Start going after specsmanship and you might regret it. Bigger is NOT always better. Especially where steppers are concerned. Look at reflected loads to the rotor and inertia matching, for instance.

Power supplies are another place where bigger/more volts is better tends to show up in this DIY-CNc world. Tread carefully there as well, IMO.

Hope this helps,

Ballendo

Asa mechanial what exactly are "425s baby"., and reflected loads are you talking geared tool loads, inertia matching /sounds cool but what exactly are you talking about? mjh

dan dimock
03-02-2007, 07:09 PM
I guess I"m a dum ass but I am building this machine by the plans, I think if it worked for Andy, then it will work for me.

the__extreme
03-02-2007, 08:05 PM
Asa mechanial what exactly are "425s baby"., and reflected loads are you talking geared tool loads, inertia matching /sounds cool but what exactly are you talking about? mjh

Hi Mike,

I could be way off here, but Ballendo is referring to the specifications & chracteristics of the stepper motors.

"425" is really 425 oz-in, the static holding torque of the motor. If rated current was flowing through the motor coils, it would take 425 oz-in of torque to turn it. He also made a comment about the torque-speed curve earlier. The faster the steppers spin, the less torque they will produce.

Reflecting the loads is not so much through a gear box, but the rotor has a mass associated with it, hence a kinetic energy & inertia (momentum) when spinning. The part of the machine that the drive screw or belt is driving can also be reflected to the rotor, giving an equivalent inertia parameter.

Once you characterize those and other parameters, choose your desired operating speeds, accelerations, etc., you can then pick a motor that will deliver the desired performance. Its one huge optimization process, and as Ballendo stated, you may not necessarily get the increased performance you want simply by buying some bigger motors, because they may not match your machine characteristics very well.
For example, if you want to cut faster and buy new steppers with high holding torque (say 425) but with very low high speed torque, there probably wouldn't be a whole lot of gain in switching.

On the downside, it can often be difficult to calculate some of those parameters, in which case, you'll be making assumptions & simplifications, so that the motor (or other component you're selecting) may not match anyway.

As for Andy (Lionclaw), I'm confident he knows enough about spec-ing his components to match his machine, and won't expect an optimized system if he doesn't spend the time on some detailed calculations. I know I get sick of all the numbers & analysis after a while.

Hope that helps, and is accurate! I'm sure someone will correct my mistakes if I've made them.

- Shawn

mike hide
03-03-2007, 01:36 AM
Ah, ah, a glimmer of light even though just a flicker. Building the gantry section over the last couple of weeks with out the benefit of a cnc machine most of the construction is out of solid 3/4" and 1/2" mdf. It is not until these components are finished does one realize what the weights [masses ]are . In my case at least the Z axis is the lightest, with the carriage next and the gantry itself being by far the heaviest. The thought did occur to me that It might be worth considering different motors for different axes .I am assuming the "static holding torque to be similar to the motor stall torque. Using similar motors in all axes and the fact that all axes work in conjunction with each other the high inertia loads in the x axis will in effect limit the response time of the machine as a whole . What seems to be cosidered a limitation of stepper motors with their torque speed characteristics would appear at least to me the ideal driver for this application ,I suppose with the exception of servo motors where brute force is required and a dead beat response [i.e. no oscillations]. In other words the maximum torque occurs at low speeds where inertia [acceleration ]loads are greatest.

Now I am on my soap box perhaps the dumbest quetion of all........What does a 4th axis [5th and up] do . does it operate a rotational axis in one of the linear ones ,x,y or z for instance ,how exactly is it defined . Hobbycnc offer both three and four axis boards, I was wondering if it would be worth getting the for axis system and operating in the three axis mode until one builds the 4 th axis ,if that is possible that is ? mjh

the__extreme
03-03-2007, 10:53 AM
Hi Mike,

I'll keep this short since we're getting off topic from Andy's thread. Yes, you're understanding the motor-matching concept. And yes, 4th & 5th are rotary axes, "A" rotates in the X axis, "B" rotates in the Y Axis and "C" in the Z. With standard 3-axis XYZ, you can do topography, 2.5D (not quite 3D), since you can't tunnel sideways into the part. If you think you might want to add a 4th axis, for the small additional $$, I'd say go with a 4 axis controller from the start. You would need to be careful that the machine you build has enough space beneath the spindle to add such an axis. For example, the gantry on Andy's machine in this thread may need a slightly higher gantry to accomodate an A axis.

Don't take this the wrong way, but there may be a better place (different forum) to ask these questions. As I understand, the moderators watch the threads in order to maintain the original topic, in this case, Andy's 2nd build. We should really respect that the thread content be related to his machine, and carry on discussions like this elsewhere. PM me if you like.

- Shawn

Lionclaw
03-06-2007, 08:00 PM
Building a DIY 4th axis is actually something I'm quite interested in, so feel free to discuss it all you want. I've got the basic model in my head right now. I might have some free time to model it up this weekend.

Basicaly, the DIY 4th axis will consist of a small torsion box that bolts to the table end. The first prototype will be built with MDF and HDPE. I might use aluminum for some parts if the HDPE doesn't hold up.

The main components will include a 5" or 6" dia 3-jaw lathe chuck (probably from littlemachineshop.com), 2 tapered roller bearings with 2" ID (probably from VXB), and a 6" dia .5" thick delrin disc hobbed into a worm gear.

So, basically it would go:

Lathe Chuck > 3/4" HDPE backplate > Roller Bearing #1 > 1/2" HDPE Bearing Mount > 2" MDF Torsion Box > 1/2" HDPE Bearing Mount > Roller Bearing #2 > Delrin Worm Gear.

I intend to tie the whole thing together with 6 socket cap screws mounted close to the ID of the roller bearings. This way the through hole diameter of the whole thing will hopefully be a good 1.25" or more. I'll drive the worm gear with a piece of 1/2-10 acme rod. I haven't thought a whole lot about where/how to mount the bearings and motor for the worm gear screw, but I don't think that will be too big of a deal.

I'm thinking the cost of all components would be somewhere around $150-$200 (the chuck alone costs close to $100).

I found a few very encouraging sites and threads about making DIY worm gears.

http://bedair.org/Worm/Worm.html
http://webpages.charter.net/mbonfire/wormgear.htm
http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15078&highlight=rotary+table

joecnc2006
03-06-2007, 09:09 PM
Andy, Here is a sample of one John did if that helps, he used the worm gear setup. and a couple other references. I plan on adding one also to the end of the machine as an addon and using a bolted plate for alignment. having the whole unit removable.

http://www.crankorgan.com/4thaxis.htm

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=27697&d=1166748937

Joe

BMG
03-06-2007, 09:32 PM
Andy, Here is a sample of one John did if that helps, he used the worm gear setup. and a couple other references. I plan on adding one also to the end of the machine as an addon and using a bolted plate for alignment. having the whole unit removable.

http://www.crankorgan.com/4thaxis.htm

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=27697&d=1166748937

Joe


Could some of the geared assemblies off copiers be used for this? I pulled 1 worm gear stepper off a copier with an attached gear assembly. I have yet to figure the turn down ratio, but I am sure its large in comparison to the motor rotation. The one I found had only a 40 oz-in stepper on it but with the gearing, I am sure it would probably work for a starter.

Brian G.

Lionclaw
03-06-2007, 11:57 PM
It might work Brian. The only major issue you might run into is backlash, which I'm hoping will be mostly eliminated by the diy version.

Lionclaw
03-10-2007, 07:20 PM
I went ahead and created the basic design for the A axis. It bolts on to the table support. There are easier ways to build a rotary axis, but this design will give me a nice 1.5" through bore so I can feed stock through without having to cut it and waste material. This design uses the 6" chuck. The only reason I went with the 6" was because it had the largest through bore. I would really have preferred to go with the 5" chuck because it weighs half as much.

As was mentioned above, depending on the size of the part being made, the walls might need to be a bit taller to give better clearance. I intend to use it mainly for small stuff, so the size should work out.

Autopilot
04-05-2007, 09:38 PM
Andy
Are you still making the kits for the LC50? I haven't seen any posts from you for quite some time.

ger21
04-05-2007, 09:41 PM
http://www.comptonsoft.com/cnc/

the__extreme
04-06-2007, 07:55 PM
Andy
Are you still making the kits for the LC50? I haven't seen any posts from you for quite some time.


Haha! He's probably like me right now - over his head in reports, projects & exams! Oh well, at least the summer break is almost here. Finally I'll have some time to work on my CNC.

- Shawn

dan dimock
04-07-2007, 07:12 PM
Is anyone building from these plans?

If so, I need a little help on a item. would you please PM me.

Dan

tangocc35
04-07-2007, 07:24 PM
I have one 9/10ths finished--may be able to help??

John Bell

snooper
04-09-2007, 06:04 PM
Andy,

Are you using a 3-jaw or 4-jaw chuck for the A-axis? Isn't a 4-jaw better?

dan dimock
04-14-2007, 11:52 AM
I am building this machine without the use of a CNC MACHINE and need two part cut on one, I live in Texas, about 100 miles from Dallas, if anyone in this area is building this machine and has a CNC UNIT, and would cut several parts for me please e-mail me at parttimedan@yahoo.com - I will be glad to pay for this, Andy was going to do this for me, however I have not been able to get in touch with him for 5 weeks.
Thanks
Dan

mike hide
04-14-2007, 04:51 PM
I am building this machine without the use of a CNC MACHINE and need two part cut on one, I live in Texas, about 100 miles from Dallas, if anyone in this area is building this machine and has a CNC UNIT, and would cut several parts for me please e-mail me at parttimedan@yahoo.com - I will be glad to pay for this, Andy was going to do this for me, however I have not been able to get in touch with him for 5 weeks.
Thanks
Dan

Dan i am building a modified joes machine using my woodshop and also with out the help of a cnc machine . what parts are you having trouble with, I might be able to help .
I have finished the gantry and currently working on thr XYbed . Regards mjh

s_a_black
04-15-2007, 09:25 PM
I am interested in this machine, since my friend has just built one. I was wondering if there was any reason why it could not be mounted vertically flat against the wall to save space i.e. so that the x axis was vertical? I would put some pulleys and counterweights to effectively make the gantry weightless. Has anyone ever tried this? Does anyone see any specific obvious problem with it?

Jason Marsha
04-15-2007, 10:36 PM
I am interested in this machine, since my friend has just built one. I was wondering if there was any reason why it could not be mounted vertically flat against the wall to save space i.e. so that the x axis was vertical? I would put some pulleys and counterweights to effectively make the gantry weightless. Has anyone ever tried this? Does anyone see any specific obvious problem with it?


Check out this site.

http://www.otocoup.com/index_e.htm

Jason

fatham
04-17-2007, 09:14 AM
Dan i am building a modified joes machine using my woodshop and also with out the help of a cnc machine . what parts are you having trouble with, I might be able to help .
I have finished the gantry and currently working on thr XYbed . Regards mjh

Hi Mike;
----I see that you made your own parts without a CNC Router. I would also like to do the same, but I can't seem to be able to get a printout of the parts with the dimensions. I have registered "E-Drawings" and can only manage to get a few dimensions at a time that seems to be a very slow and un-productive method....(one dimension at a time). How did you get the "plans" with dimensions to print out.

----Thanks Doug

mike hide
04-17-2007, 12:56 PM
Hi Mike;
----I see that you made your own parts without a CNC Router. I would also like to do the same, but I can't seem to be able to get a printout of the parts with the dimensions. I have registered "E-Drawings" and can only manage to get a few dimensions at a time that seems to be a very slow and un-productive method....(one dimension at a time). How did you get the "plans" with dimensions to print out.

----Thanks Doug

Well I had the same problem Most of the files are pretty pictures and that is about all all the dimensional stuff is greyed out .

I also found the edrawings download thing of no help whatsoever . The drawings that did work for me are the "EASM" if you dig into those you can get the dimensional data you need . Unfortunately there are no dimensioned drawings per se. even so looking at the my shot of the gantry side the acme rod bearing housing looks a little strange because my original hole drillings were in the wrong place ...regards mike.

BobLWeiss
04-18-2007, 07:07 AM
I can provide detailed measurement drawings of the files (not all at once) per request if needed. I know Lionclaw is busy with school stuff so I am offering this to the group to help out as long as Lionclaw doesn't object? :nono:

I will email them to whoever needs them but please don't ask for more than a few at a time since I do have a "real job". :rolleyes:

Bob

fatham
04-18-2007, 10:56 AM
I can provide detailed measurement drawings of the files (not all at once) per request if needed. I know Lionclaw is busy with school stuff so I am offering this to the group to help out as long as Lionclaw doesn't object? :nono:

I will email them to whoever needs them but please don't ask for more than a few at a time since I do have a "real job". :rolleyes:

Bob

Thanks Bob & Mike;

--I guess I should have either, stated or posted that I was interested in the dimensional info for "Joe's 2006" build. I am not sure if Joe has just the info (dimensional parts without parts kit) available or not, or if what I am trying to do is even possible.
I am really interested in building Joe's machine. Now that I am retired and on a fixed income and with more spare time. I can only build if I can keep cost down.
-- I have a good woodshop in my basement and think I would like to try and make this CNC machine to add to my tools.

As a result any info would help...getting parts here in southern Ontario is not as easy as you fellows in the USA.

Thanks....Doug

BobLWeiss
04-18-2007, 11:00 AM
Hello Doug,

I built Andy's machine myself... I was comparing the two (Joe's) and the only difference that stood out was that Joe used 2 bars per side for the X axis instead of 1. I have had no issues on my machine with just 1 bar per side so I guess it's a user's preference.

I cut mostly wood around 1" to 3/4" thick and it goes through it with no problem at all at around 35 IPM. I haven't tried going faster yet because I still have to "tune" TurboCNC with my setup.

I have Joe's files as well and he has them for download on his site. Check his post for the address. He gives you the a number of different formats to choose from in terms of files so you should be able to get what you need without any major problems.

Good luck,
Bob

CNC Lurker
10-31-2010, 03:47 PM
I'm glad to do it. If it weren't for the help and contributions of others here on the CNCZone I would never have really gotten a start on this stuff.

I went ahead and put together some updated solidworks model packages.

This is my plywood version.
http://www.comptonsoft.com/cnc/LC50PLY.zip

This a version dimensioned for .5" and .75" MDF with some minor modifications.
http://www.comptonsoft.com/cnc/LC50MDF.zip

These are about 10mb each.

Thanks for sharing these files!!!

Even though this is an older thread, I've read every post and have found it very helpful. Since this was your 2nd build, did you build another one after this or has this met most of your needs?