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View Full Version : My 1610L and it's issues



allenj20
06-29-2011, 09:17 PM
Here is a short video of my franken Mikini part V1 part V2

YouTube - ‪My Mikini 1610L‬‏

Here's another video showing some of the current challenges I have with it.

YouTube - ‪MVI 0984‬‏

Cheers, Allen

allenj20
06-29-2011, 11:24 PM
Update looks like I sorted out the steps per unit issue. After talking to Phil turns out there are some dip switches on the side of the stepper driver and they need to be set differently for the version 2.0 electronics.




So now with those dip switches changed to the new settings the default steps per unit of 20360 is more or less right now. I am re-calibrating the steps per unit now in mach 3 using the set steps per feature on the settings tab.

mcphill
06-30-2011, 04:58 PM
Update looks like I sorted out the steps per unit issue. After talking to Phil turns out there are some dip switches on the side of the stepper driver and they need to be set differently for the version 2.0 electronics.

Here is what Phil said about it.

Steps per unit division in the motor drivers is likely off as well for the
V2 outputs (which is affecting CNC and manual calibration. Correct setting
for the V2 output for the drives is set by the dip switches on the left
side of the drive. Depending on which drive you have, and which
orientation it is installed in the correct settings for the V2 output
should be, reading from 1-4, left to right when looking at the side of the
drive, dip switch up, down, down, up. If flipped over it is down, up, up,
down.


So now with those dip switches changed to the new settings the default steps per unit of 20360 is more or less right now. I am re-calibrating the steps per unit now in mach 3 using the set steps per feature on the settings tab.

This type of information is completely lacking from the official documentation. I think every toggle should be explained in the manual and the OEM settings should be documented. Unfortunately Phil disagrees...

allenj20
06-30-2011, 11:01 PM
This type of information is completely lacking from the official documentation. I think every toggle should be explained in the manual and the OEM settings should be documented. Unfortunately Phil disagrees...

I agree with you 100% if support is all remote email and phone accurate and complete documentation is a must. There are a ton of things I could have fixed easily on my own if i just had complete docs.

Imagine trying to do the complete conversion from 1.0 electronics to the 2.0 electronics with nothing but the version 2.0 Mikini binder. Of course Phil helped a lot via email but he could have saved us both a lot of time with more complete docs.

I was reflecting the other day that I found better docs online for my Gecko G540 wiring setup than I have for my Mikini see here (http://www.homanndesigns.com/pdfs/EN010_V8.pdf)

allenj20
06-30-2011, 11:10 PM
Another Update

Looks like the cause of the spindle issue has been uncovered. It looks like it is a difference on my machine with regards the the pulley ratios. So apparently my spindle motor pulley and cartridge pulley are a different ratio than what is on the stock 2.0 machine. Not sure yet what the procedure is to get the DRO and speed requests to be accurate. I have an email in to Phil hopefully I will find out soon.

Interesting to note that the speed is being indexed by the hall effect sensors on the motor not on the spindle so keep that in mind.

I feel like I am really close now to having a working machine knock wood.

allenj20
07-03-2011, 05:52 PM
Here's a short video update on the Mill and getting it working right.

YouTube - ‪Mikini 1610L spindle speed update‬‏

Long story short I was able to correct the spindle setup in Mach my pulley 1 now min 0 max 7900 ratio 1.5 this is because my pulley ratio is different from the 1:1 ratio of the newer machines so don't try that on a newer machine.

The upshot is my spindle has a higher top speed than normal ~6500 rpm . Also it is much quieter too after adjusting the belt tension a little.

I am working on making a part right now. Maybe I will post a video of that later.
:cheers:

slowtwitch
07-03-2011, 08:01 PM
So glad you have your mill running and it sounds great :) I hope to have some news about mine this week....

pete

allenj20
07-06-2011, 11:53 AM
Here's another update.

Here is a video of the mill making it's first part post repair. It's a little sailboat made out of copper sheet for a project my wife is doing. I figured it would be a good shake down run for the mill.

I really hope it keeps working I like the mill a lot when it's working.

YouTube - ‪Mikni 1610 L Cutting a boat out of copper‬‏

allenj20
07-06-2011, 10:01 PM
Here is a picture of the finished product my wife did all the work I just made the little sailboat.

http://www.hacksbot.com/storage/IMG_0989.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1310004010407

SWATH
07-07-2011, 11:19 AM
That's really nice looking. Makes me want to go to the beach.

allenj20
11-01-2011, 12:53 AM
Just wanted to post an update. One last thing that was not working on my mill was the coolant pump had died. So I needed a new coolant pump.

My new thinking is not to buy anything more from Mikini or have anything to do with Phil if possible. The reason for this is simple and nothing personal with Phil. The reason is that to do the same thing over and over again and expect different results is one definition of insanity. So my new policy is that if something breaks I look for a third party solution, part, or repair no more Mikini stuff. I have had this mill since January 2009 and it has been nothing but one problem after another so waiting on a Mikini solution just does not make sense to me.

So for a coolant pump I sourced this H7495 (http://www.grizzly.com/outlet/1-4-HP-115-230V-Submersion-Pump/H7495) from Grizzly. It is made in Taiwan seems better quality and is a bit beefier than the pump that came with the machine. Mikni wanted to charge me the same cost for another cheap mainland Chinese pump. I had to enlarge the hole in the tank for the new pump and drill out the new bolt pattern. But it is now in the machine and working well. Just thought people might find this info useful.

Also when playing around with the mill tonight I thought I heard the RPM drop when below 1000 RPM could just be my imagination I will run some more tests.

Cheers, Allen

SWATH
11-01-2011, 08:38 AM
Thanks Allen that is excellent info. I hope we can all get a list together of every replacement part when the time comes to replace them. I think high on the list would be a spindle motor/controller. That pump looks great. I haven't had any problems with mine yet but when I do I'll be getting that one.

allenj20
11-02-2011, 07:50 PM
Update: My spindle definitely has the RPM dip at under 1k RPM issue. Is there a known fix for this besides replacing the speed controller for a fifth time?

Should I just keep it above 1k rpm and not worry about it? It's probably indicative of a growing problem or general design flaw.

Should I send it off to the ACS industrial chaps and see what they can do with it?

Should I start speccing out a AC motor and VFD?

One thing that concerns me with the AC motor and VFD is the AC motor will probably weigh more than the BLDC motor and I bet the Z axis stepper is probably only just able to handle the weight it has. Also at that point I am not sure about keeping the control panel or anything else except the steppers and stepper drivers which seem decent. But that's probably a step in the right direction anyway getting rid of the Mikini electronics.


Anyone in Colorado want to buy a Mikini or trade for a Tormach?:idea:

mcphill
11-02-2011, 08:00 PM
I cut steel for the first time today, I have issues too... I was running at 1000 RPM. In a 90 second process, it dipped to 800 three times. I ran the same program over an over, and it would repeat 2 or 3 times every cycle. At my intended DOC it stalled the spindle when it dipped. I slowed the feedrate about 1/3 and it didn't stall any more.

I then changed to a full depth cut, 2000 rpm, .75 FEM, 1.5 DOC, 0.02 WOC. It handled this well. I did that pass over 10 times and it never stalled. It ran up to 65% load, but kept on chugging. It never dipped in speed either.

Not sure what to do, I think I will give Phil a chance to techno-babble me on how the machine is fine but I did something wrong...

SWATH
11-03-2011, 12:07 AM
Sorry about your problems, there doesn't seem to be any sort of fix other than replacing the board (which may or may not work as I think it is a systemic board problem). I would definitely take it up with Phil first, even if he gives you a line about your ground line or something, at least make him aware that there is a problem. I would also then call ACS and ask them how many mikinis they have serviced and and what problems they find with them.

My replacement board no longer has any dips in rpm at any speed however it has other problems now. Someone else has indicated that a new revision of the board is in development but won't be available for another year or so. At least make Phil aware of this common problem, I think the only way to convince them that the problem is with the board and not our power or ground lines or that we don't have enough rosaries hanging from the jog pendant is if enough of us complain and hold their feet to the fire.

allenj20
11-04-2011, 01:56 PM
The thing about taking it up with Phil is I have been taking it up with Phil for going on 3 years now with no real results. I mean the spindle does at least start for now which is an improvement but it's still a dodgy spindle.

The other thing is I don't believe for a second that Phil doesn't know there is a problem with the spindle boards. He's been shipping failure prone spindle boards for three years now. Trust me, he knows there's a problem. I have had this conversation with him many many times by now and so has most of the Mikini owners on this board. It's not news by now I am sure.

The whole power thing is just a stall tactic. What I can't figure is what is he stalling for. He's had three years which is plenty of stalling.

I know some of you guys are still in that hopeful phase. I was once there myself but understand I have been waiting on a fully functional machine since 2009 so I am way over that by now.

The only recourse I see with Phil is an attorney. And though in this case it is probably entirely justified that is not generally my style.

So I think I am going to go the Cowboy route and do a VFD and AC induction motor swap out.

Based on weight I don't think I can do a 3 HP motor I think it would be too heavy. I am thinking I can do a 2HP motor probably. But really I don't think we are really getting 3 HP out of the BLDC motor anyway so I don't think I will really be losing out there.

This is what I am thinking about getting comments and feedback desired.

http://www.driveswarehouse.com/documentation/Hitachi/WJ200B.pdf

Surplus Center - 2 HP 1725 RPM 208-230/460 VAC 3PH MOTOR (http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=10-2410&catname=electric)

Anyone got any advice on engineering an AC motor VFD replacement package?



Sorry about your problems, there doesn't seem to be any sort of fix other than replacing the board (which may or may not work as I think it is a systemic board problem). I would definitely take it up with Phil first, even if he gives you a line about your ground line or something, at least make him aware that there is a problem. I would also then call ACS and ask them how many mikinis they have serviced and and what problems they find with them.

My replacement board no longer has any dips in rpm at any speed however it has other problems now. Someone else has indicated that a new revision of the board is in development but won't be available for another year or so. At least make Phil aware of this common problem, I think the only way to convince them that the problem is with the board and not our power or ground lines or that we don't have enough rosaries hanging from the jog pendant is if enough of us complain and hold their feet to the fire.

SWATH
11-04-2011, 03:24 PM
I feel your pain but I haven't quite given up hope just yet. I think you could use a 3hp motor as long as you put some stiffer gas struts on there to compensate for the added weight, there is a wide variety at McMaster-Carr, I assume you would just need to make the head "neutrally bouyant" or slightly less. The motor you link would give you a bit hit on RPM unless you ratio'd the pulley. Let us know how it goes, maybe start a new thread about your conversion.

MichaelHenry
11-04-2011, 07:11 PM
Have you guys looking for 3 HP spindle solutions checked to see if you would commonly need that much HP? Maybe you do, but if not there might be a price to pay for buying more HP than you need.

allenj20
12-16-2011, 12:37 AM
Update on my mill. Last weekend I was making this test part.

http://www.hacksbot.com/storage/test-part.JPG

out of 6061 T6 Aluminum and periodically the spindle would momentarily shut off. The light tower would go out and the spindle would stop and then restart. Just for a fraction of a second really but obviously this was a problem. It was still also dipping as well below 1000 RPM.

So I was trying to figure out what to do. I was pricing a VFD setup a new Tormach etc... Finally I decided to take a crack at figuring out the electronics problem myself. I figured worst case I fry something I was going to replace with the VFD setup anyway. I figured it was either the Spindle control board or the main board based on what slowtwitch saw with his main board and a bad reflow Mikni repair.

So tonight I started with the main board I took all the boards on the control panel and inspected each one for soldering issues cold solder joints etc... I found one solder joint that looked like it did not have enough solder and so I added some to it. I then cleaned the boards off with canned air and reassembled and reinstalled. And it appears to have fixed all my spindle issues. So no more dipping and no more shutting off.

I ran the spindle at 500 RPM 2000 RPM and 6500 RPM for some time with no issues (knock wood) so at least for now the machine is working.

I plan to cut another test part this weekend and then try and make my first real part a telescope pier adapter soon here is what that will look like. I have two pieces of stock a 10 x 10 x 1 piece and a 10 x 10 x 2 piece both 6061 T6 that I will cut this out of.

http://www.hacksbot.com/storage/pier-assembly.JPG

It's only taken me three years to get here whish me luck

slowtwitch
12-16-2011, 08:03 AM
My spindle is still running after my re-flow of the main board. Good luck with yours :)

SWATH
12-16-2011, 01:05 PM
Any chance of posting a picture of the offending solder joint. I haven't even looked at my panel board.

allenj20
12-17-2011, 05:40 PM
I should have taken a picture but I did not know at the time that it would fix anything. I am sort of hesitant to even touch it now that it is working. If I have it back apart I will take a picture.

chipmiser
12-18-2011, 10:41 PM
I should have taken a picture but I did not know at the time that it would fix anything. I am sort of hesitant to even touch it now that it is working. If I have it back apart I will take a picture.

Hi all,

I wanted to give an update and some hope on the spindle problem. I played the voltage, power, ground game for about 5 months, then finally got a replacement controller board mailed to me and guess what,,,the drop I was seeing below 1000 rpm went away!
On the down side, my RPM feedback on the controll panel is inop, and I have seen some dips at high rpm, but I am in a lot better situation now than with the rpm drops I was having at low rpm.
An AC motor with VFD drive would sure be nice, other than that we will have to ask for board swaps until finding one that works.

SWATH
12-18-2011, 11:55 PM
Good luck with that, Mikini does not acknowledge that their board has any problems. I experienced similar things. No matter what I did on my end it did not help, but a new board solved the rpm dips but now it will not get passed 3300rpm and the rpm does not track correctly. I had a program that had an s500, and the panel read that it was spinning at s687.

allenj20
12-19-2011, 01:55 AM
SWATH just curious did Mikini replace your main board or spindle board to make the dipping go away? Might try just inspecting your main board solder joints with a magnifying glass that's all I did. I will say the soldering on these boards was not very good there was solder between chip leads as well as on them. Not enough to touch leads but just a messy job. Looks to me like the manufacturer Mikini chose for the electronics job is not the best. Wonder how much they saved over a more reliable manufacturer.


Good luck with that, Mikini does not acknowledge that their board has any problems. I experienced similar things. No matter what I did on my end it did not help, but a new board solved the rpm dips but now it will not get passed 3300rpm and the rpm does not track correctly. I had a program that had an s500, and the panel read that it was spinning at s687.

SWATH
12-19-2011, 11:13 AM
SWATH just curious did Mikini replace your main board or spindle board to make the dipping go away? Might try just inspecting your main board solder joints with a magnifying glass that's all I did. I will say the soldering on these boards was not very good there was solder between chip leads as well as on them. Not enough to touch leads but just a messy job. Looks to me like the manufacturer Mikini chose for the electronics job is not the best. Wonder how much they saved over a more reliable manufacturer.

It was the spindle board that they replaced. Prior to sending it out I closely inspected the whole board but found nothing (not that I knew what I was looking for anyway). When you say the main board are you talking about about the LCD panel or something else?

allenj20
12-19-2011, 04:22 PM
The main board on the LCD panel the one everything plugs in to. That was the one I inspected for bad solder joints.

chipmiser
12-19-2011, 09:15 PM
The main board on the LCD panel the one everything plugs in to. That was the one I inspected for bad solder joints.

On the first attempt to fix my rpm drop problem I sent my motor and controller back for "testing". When I removed the controller from it's heat sink I found Aluminum chips all over the low voltage side of the power transistor that controls the motor. I was very excited and thought for sure I had found the problem, but after cleaning had the same issue. I haven't been able to find any bad solder joints, yet.
After getting my tested and certified board wrapped in plastic and Styrofoam balls (static and more static) I recommended to Phil to use anti-static bags for shipping, said they are thinking about it.

allenj20
12-20-2011, 10:55 AM
When Mikini sent me the version 2 electronics they had thrown it all in a single box with not nearly enough packing material to protect anything. The computer got crushed, and one of the capacitors on the spindle board was pretty munged too. They just threw a bunch of parts in a box and shipped it including a quite heavy BLDC motor to rattle around. I was dumbfounded.

They also told me to send in ALL of my version 1 electronics for the swap and so that is what I did including my smooth stepper. They never returned the smooth stepper. I asked about it and they said no smooth steppers here on the bench sorry.

I could go on and on.

Jackasses :mad:

dbrija
12-23-2011, 12:25 AM
On the first attempt to fix my rpm drop problem I sent my motor and controller back for "testing". When I removed the controller from it's heat sink I found Aluminum chips all over the low voltage side of the power transistor that controls the motor. I was very excited and thought for sure I had found the problem, but after cleaning had the same issue. I haven't been able to find any bad solder joints, yet.
After getting my tested and certified board wrapped in plastic and Styrofoam balls (static and more static) I recommended to Phil to use anti-static bags for shipping, said they are thinking about it.

I'm an electrical engineer by trade, and that "we'll think about static bags" is just appalling. ESD is a huge problem, from manufacturing individual components to assembling complete boards. For someone to ship a board in no ESD protection is unacceptable. It shows that nobody cares....