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Halfnutz
07-29-2005, 08:39 AM
I saw the new Sieg Super X3 on thier site and am trying to find out where they are sold. Does anyone know? Who sells the X2?

whelen
07-30-2005, 12:23 AM
The SIEG X2 Milling Machine is sold by MicroMark. It is called the MicroLux #82573.

Whelen

Halfnutz
07-30-2005, 02:35 PM
I'm sorry, I meant the X3. I have an X2 from Harbor Freight. Its allready converted, and now I'd like to do a larger one. I have a Mill/Drill like the Ronco style, but would rather save up and get a X3. Who sells them?

wizard
07-30-2005, 04:52 PM
I'm not sure but i would suspect that LatheMaster could help you out.

I saw the mill the other day on Siegs site and have to say it does look nice. Unfortunately my budget is a bit crimped at the moment, so all I can do is look. (stuck in the candy store without a penny)

Actually I'm surprised that Griz hasen't picked up on the demand for square column mills and givne us an offer.

Dave

whelen
07-30-2005, 06:06 PM
Halfnutz, perhaps KDN Tool & Automation Engineering (www.kdntool.com) at kdntool@cox.net would know. They specialize in CNC conversion of the SIEG X1, X2, and X3 mills. They are in the process of converting my X2 right now.

Whelen

Halfnutz
07-30-2005, 10:32 PM
Well Lathemasters does have the Sieg X3, you have to kind of hunt for it, its on the order page. And also the other square collum, the Tong Yong ZAYxxxx. But no X3 Super. I'l try again searching.........

wizard
07-31-2005, 10:03 PM
It might not be on Lathemasters site yet. This is a new model after all and it might not be ready for mass sale. That doesn't mean however that the importers don't know about the super. I suspect that all the importers do know, the smaller ones like Lathemaster though might whiling to talk about it. I'm certain that some one will pick up this mill soon as it really seems to hit the sweet spot.

Dave

EDIT!

This prompted me to look at Lathemasters web site. WHAT A SURPRSE they now have a 9x30 lathe on offer! Ok not a mill however interesting none the less.

By the way the ZAY7045FG there does look nice. I have to wonder about the difficulty of converting that machine,

Dave

ViperTX
07-31-2005, 11:47 PM
Super X3's....how many orders.....??

CNC Darren
08-01-2005, 12:54 AM
I would be interested in a super depending on price but I wont be buying untill around march. I'm looking to get an x3 and a 9X20 harbor freight lathe and some tooling for under $2,000. The 9X20 is an easy one for me as I have a harbor freight retail store 15 minutes away from me so i'm not looking at any shipping on that.
Darren

jer29_11_13
08-09-2005, 04:14 PM
The only differences between the Super X3 and the X3 are:

Super X3 has a 1000 W motors variable from 100-1750 +/-10 RPMs and they give a spec "Max.tapping capacity 12mm" which they don't for the X3.

Hope this helps! :)

CNC Darren
08-09-2005, 04:53 PM
It looks like the entire mill head on the super is different. On the super the mill head is mounted on a swivel so the head can be turned on an angle, i dont think the regular x3 can do this.

Pics from sieg site

Darren

jer29_11_13
08-09-2005, 05:27 PM
If that's the case then I'll wait :frown: to order until LatheMaster has them in stock! :)

In the mean time I'll see if I can find more info on the Super X3!

Thanks!

ViperTX
08-09-2005, 05:48 PM
jer29...I'd give Bob at Lathemaster a call...ask him if he plans to carry the SuperX3....he may have one in stock and you'll get it.

ViperTX
08-09-2005, 05:49 PM
Also for an extra $199 for shipping and $100 in price differential I'd take the Lathemaster 9X30 over the HF unit.

CNC Darren
08-09-2005, 07:02 PM
thanks for the tip on that ViperTx i'll have to give it a look. I emailed sieg and they said that as of right now they dont have a usa importer for the super x3, if anyone hears from bob at lathemaster please post back here.

wizard
08-09-2005, 09:37 PM
Ok Guys I have to ask, how many of you think that a tilting head is a worthwhile feauter to have on a mill of this size?

I only ask because the Bridgeport at work hardly ever has its head tilted. Admittedly this is for maintenance work so that is a different sort of usage relative to what is common to the work some of you do. The thing that bothers me is the small amount of table space to work with here. By the time the tooling is installed you will have used up a good portion of the table.

comments?

Personally I find the machine attractive for other reasons. Since importation is not happeniong at the moment and the bank account is screaming I geuss I can put off worrying to much about it.

Thanks
dave


It looks like the entire mill head on the super is different. On the super the mill head is mounted on a swivel so the head can be turned on an angle, i dont think the regular x3 can do this.

Pics from sieg site

Darren

jer29_11_13
08-09-2005, 09:44 PM
Ok Guys I have to ask, how many of you think that a tilting head is a worthwhile feauter to have on a mill of this size?

I only ask because the Bridgeport at work hardly ever has its head tilted. Admittedly this is for maintenance work so that is a different sort of usage relative to what is common to the work some of you do. The thing that bothers me is the small amount of table space to work with here. By the time the tooling is installed you will have used up a good portion of the table.

comments?

Personally I find the machine attractive for other reasons. Since importation is not happeniong at the moment and the bank account is screaming I geuss I can put off worrying to much about it.

Thanks
dave


I considered that also Wizard you do loose quite a bit of space and I wonder what you loose in rigidity??? :)

wizard
08-10-2005, 09:14 PM
Hmmm --- never thought about the rigidity issue. I suppose that if they put in enough bolts and married hings up well it wouldn't be an issue. It might actually make disassembly and moving the mill a bit easier.

II still wonder if the tilting head on a mill of this size and design has any value. I know others have used similar designs in their mills. In fact I believe one on display at HF had such a head. Still I have to wonder if the working space left over is worth anything.

Dave



I considered that also Wizard you do loose quite a bit of space and I wonder what you loose in rigidity??? :)

sircolin
10-22-2009, 08:43 AM
hi
my name is colin have just completed cnc conversion of my old harrison 11" lathe works better than ever expected using mach 3
am about to purchase a new mill to convert as my old excel with round column is not really suitable
have set my mind on the sieg X3 seems to have excellent write ups on quality etc now have found the super X3 with horizontal mill capacity and it seems even better than the X3
any help would be appreciated from anyone that has one or of any problems with the super
many thanks
colin

Crevice Reamer
10-22-2009, 09:13 AM
Hi colin. Welcome to the Zone. Wow! You have sure resurected an old thread here.

There are TWO X3s. Basicaly, the X3 is a better bet for CNC conversion. Its motor can be easily adapted to computer speed control through Mach3.

The SX3 is more suitable for manual operation where all of its bells and whistles: Quill DRO, Fine tuning Z adjustment, Tapping features etc can be used.

I have a Super X3. I like it for the trim head with motor enclosed. Someday I MIGHT use the tilting head.

But during the CNC conversion, most of the expensive perks were removed. I hope someday to find a reasonable way to adapt computer control to the BLDC motor. I'm not sorry I got the SX3, but I do acknowledge paying a lot for a tachometer and the possibility of using the tilt head feature.

My advice to you is to stick with the stock X3 for CNC conversion.

My electronics recommendation for X3/SX3:

$098 2 KL23H284-35-4B 387 oz motors for X and Y.
$089 1 KL34H280-55-4A 637 oz motor for Z.
$417 3 Gecko G203V unkillable drives.
$189 KL- 6515 65v 15A PSU.
$183 1 PMDX-132 Combo breakout board.
-------
$976

http://kelinginc.net/

http://www.pmdx.com/

CR.

sircolin
10-22-2009, 12:22 PM
Hi CR
that has made the decision for me many thanks for your ultra fast reply, this is the first time that I have used a forum must say I am impressed
look forward to getting the X3 and stripping it down again thanks
Colin

Crevice Reamer
10-22-2009, 12:41 PM
Here's a good tear down & prep guide:

http://arceurotrade.co.uk/projects/prepguides/X3%20Mill%20Preparation%20Guide.pdf

Now, it's only experimental so far, and the few people trying it have not reported back yet, but there MAY be a less expensive way to go with X3 electronics:

$289 G540 This IS a breakout board also.
$098 Keling KL23H2100-35-4B 381 oz motors for X and Y
$099 Keling KL34H295-43-8A 906 oz N34 motor for Z (Detunes to 520 oz W/G540. Changing Z pulley to 1.2:1 = 640 Oz)
$060 Keling KL-350-48 48V/7.3A PSU. (This will handle 3 motors. 4th axis needs more amps.)
---------
$546

CR.

Crevice Reamer
10-26-2009, 09:31 AM
ON rereading my previous post, it seems to say I wish I hadn't bought the SX3. Far from that--I LOVE it! If I had it to do over again, I would still buy the SX3 for its advantages over the X3.

The Table, base, slide and column are the same for both mills. The same CNCFusion kit works for both. All of the SX3 differences are in the head. Sure, some of the features are wasted, but they (cheap quill DRO, tapping buttons on quill handles) only cost at most $50. What I feel that I paid extra for is REALLY the 1 HP BrushLess Direct Current motor. This thing does NOT bog down. It maintains power as load increases. I once tried to stop the spindle (turning at minimum 100 RPM) with both hands wrapped around it--didn't even slow 1 RPM.

The SX3 already HAS a quiet belt drive--No noisy gears. The SX3 weighs 27 pounds less than the X3--Even with about 20 extra pounds of cast iron attached to the quill levers--so the BLDC motor must lighten the head considerably. Since I removed the heavy quill for CNC, a 50LB lighter head means I can add extra weight like cooling manifold, drill and lathe fixtures and power drawbar without hindering fast Z performance.

The only actual drawback encountered so far is the lack of easily available computer speed control. This is only needed for ATC operation. I CAN however easily control motor start and stop with computer, and it starts at the speed previously set so this is not really a drawback at all. The speed control DOES exist though, on the KX3 and someday will surely be available.

So, the SX3 costs a little more, and can be a slightly more complex conversion, but IMO it's worth every penny--and of course there's still that tilt head feature that just might come in handy someday.

CR.

MotoGems
10-31-2009, 07:09 AM
Crevice reamer, i would like to know how you control the start / stop with Mach 3 on your super x3.....

Also if i ever can get some sort of spindle speed control using mach 3 then i'll let everyone know..

Crevice Reamer
10-31-2009, 09:59 AM
Crevice reamer, i would like to know how you control the start / stop with Mach 3 on your super x3.....

Hi Moto.

I have removed the spindle guard and estop sw, and use one of those wires (red K4) to control stop. Start is just a matter of bypassing the start switch with a soldered wire and connecting to the other estop wire (K3). Since I have removed the quill control levers, the tapping switch wire (s1) is available to use as a common. So three wires go to a 5V DC SPDT relay located in the back of the electronics shell. Of course, you could also thread your own wires up through the flexible cable housing to the head.

The 5V relay coil is controlled by Mach. Relay on connects K3 to S1, which just electronically presses the start switch. Relay off connects K4 to S1 and basically does what happens when spindle guard switch is closed--stops motor. You must manually set the speed at first. After a stop command and then a new start command, the mill motor starts and rises to previously set speed. Speed is manually adjustable at any time.

After removing K3/K4 wires from bottom terminal block, you must jumper the old terminal block K3/k4 estop connection, or the motor will not run. And oh yeah, I also replaced the estop with a SPST toggle switch for auto/manual control. This switch just connects the common wire to the relay or not.

If during CNC, the CNC estop button is pressed, the mill stops quickly also with electronic braking. If estop is needed during manual operation, flipping the auto/manual switch to auto stops the mill.

CR.

John S.
10-31-2009, 10:07 AM
Sir Colin,
Have a look at Arceuro drivers and motors, they are very cost effective, CR has advised the Gecko drives but be aware that these get hammered by UK customs when coming into the country and work out more expensive in the long run, something that CR possibly isn't aware of.

Then to add insult to injury the post office adds £8 to £16 to 'process' it and they then add VAT on top of that.

I think Arc's 4.2 amp drives which are more then enough for an X3 are about £38 inc VAT and three of them is more than £60 so they are post free.

John S.

sircolin
10-31-2009, 07:26 PM
many thanks john
I have been using diycnc http://www.diycnc.co.uk/index.html roy there has been very helpfull while I converted my lathe as I new nothing at all about motors or electronics.
I had already purchased the motors from him and the electronics I have made mobile to plug into whatever machine being used just hope the mobile bit will work ok.
the lathe conversion is working better than I ever hoped for considering the weight of the tables and a 4 tpi lead screw, and it is used on a daily basis with mach3
again I am thankfull and impressed with the feed back from the forum as I have never used them before
colin

John S.
11-01-2009, 07:04 AM
Colin,
Yes Roy's a nice guy I buy a lot of gear off him.
The mobile electronics box is fine, you just need two different profiles in Mach depending on what you are using.

Only problem you may have is if you use different step stetting between machines but that's not all the world.

We have one of those aluminium camera case with a power supply , breakout board, bit of logic and three big drivers. It enables us to go out and within 15 minutes get a dead machine going that's sat for 15 years with blown electronics. That does impress the punter who's usual remark is "How much for the box " :D

John S.

sircolin
11-02-2009, 03:45 AM
john
had not considered the steps will have to think on keeping them the same if possible when I get that far but as you say its not the end of it ( my mobile is an old milk trolley from a supermarket)
colin