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cncadmin
07-12-2005, 04:31 PM
I'm awaiting the new CNC conversion kit from IH, due in sometime this week or so. I will be taking lots of pick and posting the process of the conversion. So stay tuned.....

cncadmin
07-18-2005, 03:56 PM
I should recieve my coverstion kit early next week. Looking forward to the converstion stay tuned!

MikeAber
07-25-2005, 04:14 PM
Hi Paul,

Many of us don't know what an X3 is. Would you elaborate on that for us?

Mike

cncadmin
07-25-2005, 04:29 PM
It's the smaller version of the one on IH website and also it this one - http://www.rlberg.com/CNC.htm

ints99
07-26-2005, 06:18 AM
I'm awaiting the new CNC conversion kit from IH, due in sometime this week or so. I will be taking lots of pick and posting the process of the conversion. So stay tuned.....

Could you explain, what IH stands for?

Looking for X3 (Actually, for SIEG Super X3) conversion kit too... Any suggestions?

Regards,
Indrek

cncadmin
07-26-2005, 09:20 AM
Could you explain, what IH stands for?

Looking for X3 (Actually, for SIEG Super X3) conversion kit too... Any suggestions?

Regards,
Indrek

Sure this is the Industrial Hobbies forum so the IH stands for Industrial Hobbies. :)

ints99
07-26-2005, 09:35 AM
After using some time Google etc. I allready suspected it and even found corresponding web page ;-)))) But thanx anyway.

But, what it was a littlebit dissapointing, I dont found any reference on IH website talking about Sieg X3 conversion kit etc ;)

So, it would be nice to know the price and see some pictures/drawings about this kit. Do you know, are they preparing something for Super X3 too? The Z-axis should probably handled differently, as this seems to be complitely new desing - but I can confirm it inside some weeks as soon as container with our Super X3-s will arrive, finally ;)

Regards,
Indrek

Andy Fritz
07-26-2005, 12:05 PM
I am also looking for suitable CNC kit for this mill. I checked Industrial Hobbies, but their kit seem to be suited for a larger mill.
It should still have ballscrews and servos for accuracy.
Any pointers are greatly appreciated!

MikeAber
07-26-2005, 12:19 PM
Call Aaron at Industrial Hobbies about the new kit for the X3. Paul is receiving the first kit.

Andy Fritz
07-26-2005, 12:56 PM
Thanks,

I already emailed them. Any other sources with available kits for delivery?

Andy

ints99
07-26-2005, 01:34 PM
In Europe, www.dhcenter.de (or actually www.hobbymarkt.de) is provaiding kits for X2 (and C2, i think), but not so far for X3.

ints99
07-26-2005, 01:43 PM
Btw, but despite of fact that there seems to be only very limited number of vendors for commercial conversion kits, you can just take advantage about several non-commercial websites related to Sieg X3 conversion. I hope, majority of those are collected and listed in following web page:

http://www.heli-web.com/link-lst.html?eng=1&lk=105

Regards,
Indrek

cncadmin
08-03-2005, 11:40 PM
Here is the start of the pictures

cncadmin
08-22-2005, 01:35 PM
Yeah I know I'm a big tease...... I hope to start the conversion in a few more weeks and I will have lots of pictures for you all, just been very busy and need to get a few things off my plate.

ngr1
08-22-2005, 02:53 PM
Hi Paul, I am little confused about the conversion parts you received from IH.

The picture you posted looks like stepper motors setup in a direct drive configuration. Unlike the parts depicted on the IH site which show servo motors in a belt drive configuration.

Can you please provide some more details regarding the parts and their intended configuration.

Thanks… Norman

cncadmin
08-22-2005, 02:57 PM
This is for the X3 it's a smaller mill than what is on the IH website.

ints99
08-30-2005, 03:13 AM
Call Aaron at Industrial Hobbies about the new kit for the X3. Paul is receiving the first kit.

I have sent several emails to IH, but recieved no answer regarding X3 conversion kit. Do you know any direct emails for IH, like Aaron's email?

Regards,
Indrek

JFettig
08-30-2005, 08:00 AM
Paul, have you had time to work on this yet? Its looking quite interesting.

By the pictures I cannot see if the handles have counterweights to them, but you may want to take off the handle(not the wheel but the part you grab onto) to keep it from catching onto stuff and causing vibration.

Make sure you take plenty of assembly pictures.

Jon

cncadmin
08-30-2005, 08:29 AM
I hope to start on this next week, been very busy with other things, I will have lots of pictures. I will have to be just extra careful when the machine is running, I wanted the handles so that I could still do manual work.

ints99
08-30-2005, 08:45 AM
Regarding Z axis - you probably plan to disconnect the lower (original) handle and replace the function with handle connected to servo? How practical such a setup really will be? Of course, it seems to be the only working easy alternative. Still, could it be possible to mashine some kind of "mechanical switch" to engage/disengage original lower handle...?

Btw, the Super X3 does not have gas strut any more. And acme screw lower gear is much (twice?) big compared to X3. Actually, this seems to be the reason to abadon gas strut from column. I just woundering, will the correspoinding CNC kit work for Super X3 as well.

Jep, I recieved my Super X3 2 weeks ago. Pictures are "under construction", I will probably launch some special web site to distribute those... Currently I am cleaning it up and repairing one broken oil nipple i demaged on time of opening it. Similar to Pete at TokenToolruum I found also problems with another oil tube, under Z axis bush. I needed to temporary remove bush to open the tube. Be aware, the bush is very soft material and will be easily deformed if removed... I succeeded to open it very easily. So: its good idea to CHECK ALL OILERS!

Regards,
Indrek

cncadmin
09-06-2005, 11:14 AM
Well I started last night taking the machine apart, 1 hour I had the machine apart and lapped the X&Y. IH gives the material for this 80, 320 and 500 grit. It didn't take much time to do this because the gibs were nice and true their were no high spots. I'll have pics up for this part. My game plan is to install the X&Y ballscrews so I can get a location for the hole I need to make in the column.

IndHobby
09-07-2005, 01:12 AM
Yes, I would have to admit that there are quite a few unanswered emails regarding the X3 conversion kit, for that I apologize.

Insofar as the kit/price/availability I don’t know. I sped up the timeline as a favor for Paul and didn’t even bother pricing it out yet. I have the 2 more kits machined and I will use one those for conversion pictures and use the last as our demo. The difference is the conversion X3 for pictures gets sold. And the demo unit gets polished and the entire mill gets repainted (Gotta do the shows you know).

Yes, I know it is a direct drive stepper unit, I also know it produces a lot more power than you will ever need on the X3.

Before you start getting spooked about it being steppers, we did it for a few reasons:

Had to be a more cost effective than our standard servo system.
Our servo system wouldn’t fit.
The steppers we chose produce A LOT of power.
We will also offer a closed loop stepper system in the near future.

We are hoping to have it completely worked up on our site in the near future and will post everything there.

Thanks

BARCC
09-23-2005, 06:36 PM
cool, but what about the Sieg X3 Super Mill, supposedly it has tilting head, and DRO, info please on converting this

cncadmin
09-23-2005, 09:49 PM
here some dismantling pics

Turbo1zz
10-13-2005, 04:02 AM
WOW! Thanks for the pictures. I am going to be getting the x3 in the not too distant future and have plans to convert it down teh road. I will most likely be doing my own conversion but it's great to get to see pictures of other conversions being done.

Please keep the pictures coming...

Thanks,
Jeffrey Park

djmachinist
10-20-2005, 02:54 PM
Paul,
Do you have the new X3 with the longer table with 16"
0f X travel movement? I have one of original three
X3's that Bob imported. My machine only has a little
over 12" of X travel. With Aaron's conversion, do you
loose any of the X/Y travel that the manual machine has.

damn_wooki
11-30-2005, 03:46 PM
What's the latest on this system?

damn_wooki
12-29-2005, 06:37 PM
I sent an inquiry to IH and they're looking for a March/April launch.

fignoggle
01-19-2006, 03:18 AM
good to see cnc converisons of the x3. that berg website showed some nice work! now, if someone would start selling the super x3...

scott wiggins
03-16-2006, 02:55 PM
Any updates on the conversion of the X3 or IH's release?

cncadmin
03-16-2006, 02:58 PM
No I've been busy with other things and the Mill is just sitting, maybe over the summer I will get back on it.

Coops
02-24-2007, 11:06 PM
how aboutnow, I am interested to see the final result. Cheers

skullworks
03-17-2007, 05:40 PM
Has this project been shelved since Gene took over IH?

I don't know if they even have a X3 back in CT for developement.

I have a X3, and have looked at all the conversion kits. I have not found one I like as yet because virtually all are stepper based and I want servo drive.

I'm going to try and make up Solidworks files of all the important mill castings so I can model up my conversion ideas.

I'm not afraid to spend money, if the product provides what I want. So far the Auzzie conversion is closest to what I would do, but again its stepper... and I won't be using Mach.

InspirationTool
03-17-2007, 08:26 PM
Skullworks, CNCfusion.com has a mechanical only conversion for the X3. You could then buy servo motors and a servo controller. The new ballscrews/thrust bearing solution they are working on sounds promising.

-Jeff

skullworks
03-17-2007, 09:04 PM
Skullworks, CNCfusion.com has a mechanical only conversion for the X3. You could then buy servo motors and a servo controller. The new ballscrews/thrust bearing solution they are working on sounds promising.

-Jeff

Allready emailed them, no reply.

I do like the looks of there new screws, I like the nuts even better.

But I'm not sure if I want to add a bunch of mods to his existing design, it would not look right.

Still open to the idea though.

bones
03-18-2007, 05:53 AM
Hi Skullworks,
I'm fitting the Aussie conversion to works X3 and using servo's.
I hope to have it running this week.
It went together nicely, well aswell as you can bolt up to a chinese made machine anyway.
We have had to turn the motors outwards and use spacers until we can remake the motor brackets to tuck the motors away like his stepper design.

Cheers
Bones

skullworks
03-18-2007, 06:10 AM
Hi Skullworks,
I'm fitting the Aussie conversion to works X3 and using servo's.
I hope to have it running this week.
It went together nicely, well aswell as you can bolt up to a chinese made machine anyway.
We have had to turn the motors outwards and use spacers until we can remake the motor brackets to tuck the motors away like his stepper design.

Cheers
Bones

That sounds great - you are now required to post Pics...

bones
03-18-2007, 11:37 PM
Hi,
Here are some pics of the conversion. I will do a complete write up soon.
I need to make some covers for the belts and make new plates once running.
The X-Axis motor will be moved to the front and the Y-Axis motor down to the left beside the base.
Excuse the mess in the back ground. We are running out of room and getting ready to move soon.:)
Hope this helps.

Cheers
Bones

skullworks
03-19-2007, 09:02 PM
So - What servos are you running? Nema 34's @ 2:1 ?

That looks like it could be really fast!

And the mess... Ha I have my X3 scattered all over my office as I fit up parts and make up the Solidworks files..

JFettig
03-19-2007, 09:28 PM
So - What servos are you running? Nema 34's @ 2:1 ?

That looks like it could be really fast!

And the mess... Ha I have my X3 scattered all over my office as I fit up parts and make up the Solidworks files..

To share with everyone right? :)


Jon

bones
03-19-2007, 09:34 PM
Hi,
I'm running the MCG ID23-005 Servo motors from Dan Mauch http://www.camtronics-cnc.com/
http://www.mcg-net.com/electric_motors/downloads/brush_motors/ID23005.pdf
Nice 400 oz/in motors. And using Aussy CNCTeknix drivers of course. :)
2:1 ratio from the original kit.
We ran it at around half voltage 30v and it was hooting along.
So 60v it's going to be screaming along.

Bones

skullworks
03-24-2007, 08:13 PM
To share with everyone right? :)


Jon

Yeah I will likely post the Solids of the mill castings. This would help people who don't have the mill yet, or have not started stripping it down. I will use a BIG Mori Seiki VMC to make the conversion parts so having the mill usable to make the conversion isn't an issue for me.

As to my final drive setup - maybe - It will be mostly home built - servo amps, pws, etc and setup to run with EMC2 using PWM. It won't accept step/direction so anyone planning on using MACH will be SOL. I guess the motor mounts / drive belt config might be of use with different amps etc.

Or as I used to say " I'll burn that bridge once I get to it. "

trcons
03-03-2008, 06:02 PM
I assume this is a dead horse.

Tom

48racefan
04-14-2008, 06:34 PM
I have been reading many different threads on this Forum and I have to say I love all the valuable information and encouraging words enveryone has posted. I am not one to post in forums or blog but I am excited!

I am a woodworker, but see the value in adding a milling machine to my arsenal. Today I ordered a super X3 from Grizzly and plan on stripping it down, powder coating it a different color (probably Yellow) and converting it to CNC. I hope to keep up with this thread and post my progress on this site.

It has been a while since anyone has posted on this thread so hopefully this will still be of interest to some of the vetrans on this site; as well as other rookies like myself. (group)

Since my day-to-day is in IT and a extensive background in Electronics, I think I may bring some fresh ideas on how to mount all the controllers, power supplies, etc.

Oh by the way - I ran across these pics of the new X4 from Syil on the Canadian Site. Check it out.

Stayed Tuned!

Crevice Reamer
04-14-2008, 08:45 PM
Congrats on your new purchase racefan. Care to share any of your ideas?

CR.

skullworks
04-15-2008, 12:36 AM
I assume this is a dead horse.

Tom

Not a Dead horse, a sleeping dragon maybe.

The work continues, I modeled up 9 parts in 2 assemblies in Solidworks over the weekend.

Having $11,700 in roofing repairs (in progress as I type this) did set back my time table. But I'm not in a rush, I intend to take my time and do it right the first time.

automationtechinc
04-15-2008, 11:09 AM
Check the servo here

http://www.kelinginc.net/ServoMotor.html

48racefan
04-15-2008, 10:59 PM
I have many thoughts on cooling and mounting for the controls, e.g, stepper drivers, power supplies, etc. I have only put them in Pencil CAD so far but I am happy to share my progress and lessons learned a long the way. Of course, I have to give credit to everyones posts on this forum; it has given many ideas on how to improve on something great!

I also placed my order for the CNC Conversion from CNC FUSION. I must say, they are great at communication and quick to respond! I am looking for the electronics and steppers now.

I have seen some bundles from Keiling on eBAY and sent him a message on a custom bundle, but have not heard back from him. Most of his packages have x3 NEMA 23 Steppers, drivers, and power supplies. I wanted to go with the NEMA 34 640 in/oz for the Z Axis. I suppose I can have one extra stepper as a backup and get the additional NEMA 34. Just trying to watch the $$$, I do not want the Wife to kick me out of the house and make me sleep in the garage. Hey wait; on second thought, that might not be bad, more time to play with the new toys!

- John

Crevice Reamer
04-16-2008, 07:22 AM
I have seen some bundles from Keiling on eBAY and sent him a message on a custom bundle, but have not heard back from him. Most of his packages have x3 NEMA 23 Steppers, drivers, and power supplies. I wanted to go with the NEMA 34 640 in/oz for the Z Axis.
- John

Keling HAS an X3 package with 640 oz for Z. You just have to scroll down a little farther. The Power supply is a little anemic though. you might want to upgrade it.

CR.

48racefan
04-16-2008, 09:38 AM
I am going to take a look again; I cannot believe I missed it! I saw his N34 Steppers as solo but missed the bundle...

-John

48racefan
04-26-2008, 11:01 PM
Hello everyone,

I received my SX3 as scheduled from Grizzly. I have ordered my conversion kit from CNC FUSION and it should arrive next week. I also have all my electronics as well. I thought I would share some pictures of the mill with you all. I have also taken the mill apart and have got it ready to send out for powder coating this coming week. Stayed tuned for more updates. I have a lot of exciting ideas and photos I will be posting as my project progresses.

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk69/48racefan/Picture031Small.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk69/48racefan/Picture033Small.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk69/48racefan/Picture047Small.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk69/48racefan/Picture082Medium.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk69/48racefan/Picture085Large.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk69/48racefan/Picture088Large.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk69/48racefan/Picture085.jpg

Crevice Reamer
04-27-2008, 08:30 AM
Wow 48! I've never SEEN one taken that far down. You've taken things apart that no one else but the factory has. You are really making this mill your own! I can't wait to see more of this interesting project. Looks like you'll be having lots of help. Are they twins?

Are you going to replace the spindle bearings? Don't forget to remove that gib from the vertical slide.

Can you give us disassembly details? I'm sure there were some tricky parts that would be handy to know about.

Thanks,

CR.

neilw20
04-27-2008, 11:43 AM
When reassembling make sure the quill lock does not get stuck.
While you have it in pieces some good fixes here:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50760&highlight=quill
like the intermittent tapping switch, which I still have to fix.
It is useless for fragile taps.

48racefan
04-27-2008, 02:20 PM
Interesting info, thanks guys for sharing this - I did not notice any strange sounds. I followed the break-in procedures in the manual precisely I was actually surprised that the machine was as quiet as it was. I wonder if they have corrected this issue as noted in other threads?

If I chose to replace the bearings I wonder if I should just go ahead with the spindle upgrade from Syil ( http://www.syilamerica.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=43&osCsid=nkg7i38a08kedosk1f1jma06o2 )? Does anyone have any thoughts about this?

I did order the quick change Collet Set ( http://www.syilamerica.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=33&osCsid=7178gbq0ha09bp36ocp9lasof1 ) from Syil but was a little disappointed as I thought I was receiving the one depicted in the online catalog CC. It lists the same one that ships with their SX3.

Surprisingly, the breakdown was easier than I thought it would be. I took my time in doing so and I had it apart in about 5-6 hours. I will take some time and document my lessons learned from this.

CR – Yes they are twins. I am not sure who was more excited about the purchase, them or me. My son operating the Mill, Caiden kept saying, this is so great! I let them both take turns and drill some holes in a piece of scrap wood after we ran it through break in; they loved it!

I was experimenting with what I was going to use for a computer to run MACH3 software on. I had access to a couple of thin-client computers that run Windows XP Embedded. These have no hard drives, as they are all solid-state devices. I think that they would be perfect for this and the Form-Factor is perfect!

I was planning to break it down and mount the board from the device inside the enclosure with the breakout boards and drivers. These produce almost no heat at all. They are a little tricky to add software if you have no experience with them. They are also very limited on space. You can add a USB drive and then you can install just about anything you want.

One issue I ran into after installing MACH3 was the openGL drivers for XP were not installed on the device so they need to be added for MACH3 to run.
You can pick one of these up on eBay for under a $100 easy.

I also have set aside a DELL 19” LCD flat panel for this machine (a bit of overkill I suppose but I had one at home I could use). I was able to find a touch screen upgrade kit that I purchased (again on eBay) with shipping for about $150.00. I plan on doing away completely with the mouse and keyboard for running MACH3. I can do my design on another machine where I can sit and relax and then grab it over my HOME NETWORK from the machines PC.

As a side note, the Touch Panel Upgrade fits seamlessly inside the flat panel. You just need to take the bezel apart and place it inside the same enclosure. I will include some phased install photos when I get it going.

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk69/48racefan/0c8a_1.jpg


http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk69/48racefan/908f_1.jpg

neilw20
04-27-2008, 04:46 PM
I chucked out XP and now use Win2000.
XP goes off into the weeds to often frigging with helpsrv.exe and that is documented by MS and they say to use SP2.
It still goes stupid with SP2.
Anything below 2GHz using XP will created gremlins.
Win2000 with 1/2G memory on a 1.4GHz machine is good.
Good luck trying to run Mach3 through a USB port.
Anything with USB to parallel will need resynchronization hardware to work properly.
Depends very much on your BOB.

skullworks
04-27-2008, 05:19 PM
I do all my serious "work" in Win2K. ( CAD/CAM )

I use Linux and EMC2 to controll my machines though.

XP is for playing F.E.A.R. and other trivial games.

48racefan
04-27-2008, 05:22 PM
The pro about using Windows XP EMBEDDED is that it only install the very bare minimum to run the operating system and not all the other garbage when choosing a typically install of XP. These units have parralel printer port on them; I am not going to use a USB to DB25 converter to connect to the breakout board.

I would be interested in knowing which thread exactly is spawning helpsrv.exe on the OS. This is my real area of expertise (my day to day) and I may be able to pin this down and identify the root cause. I can share some tips with you on OS Tuning as well as best practice setup for a machine used for this type of setup.

The MACH3 Install is on the local machine. The USB would only be used for an additional hard drive to install other applications if so desired or for storing other CAD drawings and such...

Thanks for this valuable information though - I am going to see if I can reproduce the issues you are referring too.

48racefan
04-27-2008, 05:27 PM
I was considering using an UBUNTU release on the machine with EMC2 as well; however, I have heard plenty of good things about running MACH3 so opted for XP. I have had very good luck with XP; but I work in IT and so it is much easier to support.

I will most likely try both and compare.

neilw20
04-27-2008, 05:35 PM
I have been writing software for a living for 30 years.
I'm stuffed if I know what spawns helpsrv.exe or what it does.
Have you ever seen an XP machine start some unexpected disk activity after 20 minutes or so. What is scheduling that garbage?
I might disappear the file and wait for it to complain.
winsrv.dll plays a bit of havoc occasionally.
As long as i don't have to port any thing to DEC RSX11 environment ever again I think I will survive. Good place to learn file sharing strategies though.
Best thing about the porting is you eventually get to put it all back in a PC and bin the monster air conditioning system and battery room!
Haven't played with EMC2 but I like Mach3. Which is better?
I would like to run a QNX platform. What could be better than that?

48racefan
04-27-2008, 05:45 PM
Is the indexing service enabled on the machine? I have seen this when the service is running, and the machine is in idle or under little use, it will start indexing the file system.

I would be interested in what people have to say about EMC2 and MACH3; a side by side comparison perhaps?