5T Operating Instructions FAQ /Q&A


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    Default 5T Operating Instructions FAQ /Q&A

    Hello all,

    Several of us here on the zone have recently started using recycled CNC Lathes with Fanuc 5T controls on them.

    The 5T is quite different than most other controllers being used today. The 5T has many special quirks and oddities about it. The control has a lot of character (but not charm).

    Most machines are had with few or no manuals. Even if we got all of the manuals for our old machines, we've all found that the documentation is barely useful because of the odd Japenglish language that they use.

    Its my hopes in starting this thread that us poor saps using these ancient relics can share setup and operating instructions and techniques.

    -John

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    Default Setting Z0.000 to part face?

    When starting up the machine, what is the proper method for setting Z axis to the part face. (X needs to be calibrated too, but not worrying about that now)


    I'm thinking;

    1. Turn on machine.

    2. Zero-Return the machine.

    3. Use MDI to select tool T0000, so there are no offsets active.

    4. Press [ORIGIN] button with X then Z selected. This sets POS readout to machine coordinates.

    5. Jog/handwheel the carriage until touch off of the tool post or reference tool tip. (Write down the Z value for next turn-on.)

    6. Use MDI G50 Z0 at this position to set Z axis to part face, or press the ORIGIN BUTTON.

    7. Select the other tools, and write down their touch off Z cordinates, these will become the Z tool offsets entered.


    This method intentionally avoids use of the G50 command for each tool. Will it work, or is there a better way?

    At the end of the day, is it customary just leave the machine on if the same job will run the next day. OR, turn it off and start the second day by zero-returning then without moving axis, MDI G50 Z using the recorded touch off number from step #5.

    John



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    Default

    In my case I just power up, send the carriage to home (Zero Return X&Z)
    Then make sure block skip is off, and simply start running the program. All of the G50 commands are relevant to the Zero Return position, and if used, an initial move to my tool change position that I block skip out in the subsequent running of the program by turning on the block skip feature. You do not have to find or touch off again as these dimensions are all enetered into the part program. Unless you change a tool's physical position on your tool post or in the tool holder they do not change.

    Steve



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    Default

    Hi guys.New here.Just got a really cool 1979 Mori,with a 5t,and an rs232 by RYM inc.I am not completely lost,but close.I have manuals,but am used to much newer controls...We will be using Mastercam,and the associated cimco editor.This machine has a tailstock and an 8 tool toolchanger.Any info on the machine will be greatly appreciated,as I've never run one.Thanks,Doug



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    Default upgrade for the 5t on a Mori

    Hi.Who makes the most painless control upgrade for this old Mori?(sl3a)?Assuming screws and original motors will not be changed.It is a 5t.Thanks!



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    Default

    Dougbeast: In a word, NOBODY.

    Proof: do a site search for "CNC lathe retrofit". Essentially, been there done that and didn't find anything worthwhile.

    The prior search was an excruciatingly frustrating effort in talking with Ajax and a number of other retrofitters. You'd think that all you had to do was to buy a pC, replace the 5T NC and patch into the servo drives and/or output wiring. Not on your life.

    I got as far as finding amps that would drive the Fanuc motors (AMC's). I could not get a support from Mach regarding specific adaptation/interfacing their system to/with the amps. The folks at Ajax wanted to sell me all new everything even though their amps SUPPOSEDLY would/should drive the DC servos in the Fanuc 5T's (supposedly, "they won't work").

    Camsoft and others had PC software BUT you or somebody had to write code to interface the damn thing - hardly a painless process as far as I was concerned. Moreover, some other members replied with their versions of the same horror stories.

    Although there are some well documented mill retrofits out there, lathe retrofits are NOT that easy to affect - they are not simply mills flopped over onto their sides.....

    Fagor and Mitsubishi and other higher end outfits offer better retrofits but, due to cost issues, these were outside of my budget of affordability - I was hoping for $3-4K, most of the ones that came by were in the $10-=$15k range, far out of reach for the DIY or hobbyist = perhaps even some small machine shops.

    BTW if you need 5T M/B service, contact Glenn Rowe at Billore Machine in Dallas TX - He's saved my machines from "early" graves several times. They aren't contemporary but they at least still run....



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    Just a post to follow this thread.

    I have a fanuc 5T also, on a Hitachi Seiki,
    just learning how to use it and trying to get some jobs.

    Nice regards:

    Everardo.



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    Talking thanks guys.Let's stay in touch!

    Ick!It sounds like I've got a tough row to hoe...Luckily,with help from folks like you,and my two bits worth,we might get some love back from these dinosaurs.I sure do love the robust,high quality of my new/old Mori.It's got a Refresh Your memory rs232 interface,but no software.I'm thinking my MaSTERCAM and it's Cimco editor will speak to it.....Thanks again.Doug



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    Refresh Your Memory?

    That's the bussiness of Dan Fritz.
    He knows a lot of Fanuc and was very nice in helping me. My machine has no RS232,
    but I'll buy a BTR software from him as soon as I get some bucks. :-)



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    Default voltage concerns with de Fanuc 5t

    Howdy!I just hooked up power to the Mori,and everything came on,but the jogging of the Xaxis causes a small popping gurgling(?) sound....Yikes!We checked the power,and it's 250 volts.Too much outa range?Dust from the brushes shook loose during transit?Took 'em out,but have yet to blow them out with computer bottled air.....Hope I didn't let the smoke out of it.Actually,there was no smoke thankfully.What is the process for cleaning brushdust?We are able to barely manually spin the belt with our tough machinist fingertips,but ouch!Thanks,Doug



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    Dougbeast: Before you go much further, check the jumpers on the servo and the CNC power transformers. These jumpers are used to adjust for your shop's line voltage, and every time a machine gets moved to a new shop, you're line voltage is likely to be different.

    Inside the CNC cabinet (near the power supply) there should be a single-phase transformer with a set of taps for line voltages of 190 to 550vac. This transformer has secondaries (outputs) of 100 and 200vac. Measure the outputs and see how close they are to 100 and 200 volts. If they're more than 5% low or high, you may want to change the taps so they are closer to their intended voltage. In Japan, the "standard" voltages are 100v and 200v, and the transformer is designed to give the CNCs power supply the right stuff.

    Also, somewhere near the servo amplifiers, is a larger 3-phase transformer with multiple taps. These jumpers can also be adjusted to give the servos what they need as an input voltage. Chances are, the servo transformer will be jumpered for the same line voltage as the CNC power transformer, so if you have to adjust the small single-phase transformer, you'll probably have to adjust the servo transformer as well.

    Making the servos run smoothy on a Fanuc 5 requires a bit of work (with a voltmeter and an oscilloscope), but the results are well worth it. If a servo makes any noises other than a nice "hum" as it moves, then you need to look into things. A lot of machines have ballscrew covers or way covers that make funny noises, but those are not worth worrying about unless they're binding somehow.

    One common problem on these old SCR servos was having a blown fuse, which would cause the servo to run on a single phase (sounds rough, and does not have much torque). The 3 "indicator" fuses on the back of each servo amplifier have little "flags" that are suppose to pop up when the fuse blows, but if the flag sticks, the fuse can blow and the control wont' shut it down with an alarm. The result is a servo that runs on a single phase.

    As with any used machine, DOUBLE CHECK to be sure the way lube is getting to the right places, and that the ballscrews and nuts are being properly lubed also. Clogged lube lines are a real problem in used machines.

    For servo tuning on a 5T/5M, I'll be glad to write up the procedure, but it does take some skill and a few basic tools, including an oscilloscope.



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    Talking WOW! Thanks Dan!

    Good gravy.What a resource.I was told by the friendly folks at RYM to get ahold of you.I was going to email you and beg for info.Does one simply rearrange the taps?I see red wires going from one terminal to another.I'm to switch these around?To add or subtract voltage?OK.First I'll see what the voltage is,and then I can maybe figure out myself on where to put them...The oscilloscope-I'm not really proficient with one,but I have access to one,and a whiz who knows how to use it.I'll do my homework before I will ask any more questions,but I'm NOT used to these machines-They sure are neat ,though.Thanks Dan,Doug



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    Default

    Setting the taps on the single-phase transformer for the CNC power supply is pretty simple. You connect a single phase input (primary) to the 0v terminal and to the terminal that's marked for your particular input voltage (200, 220, 240, etc.) That would make the output (secondary) voltage to 100vac and 200vac +/- about 5% or so. This keeps the CNCs power supply happy, and the fan motors run at the correct voltage.

    The big 3-phase servo transformers are different. There are actually several types of 3-phase servo transformers. Some of them have dual primary coils for setting any input voltage from 190 to 550v. Some others are much simpler, and they only let you set an input voltage of 220 or 240v. Most people are confused about how to set the big muti-tap servo transformers. These transformers have TWO sets of input (primary) coils, which can be wired in parallel or in series. These primary terminals are usually labeled "0V, 190v, 230v, and 275v", and there are two sets of primary coils for each of the 3 phases.

    Adjusting the taps is done by applying jumpers between one set of primary coils and the other set, and all three phases must be connected & jumpered the same way. For example, for a 230v input line voltage, connect each phase to the "230v" terminal, then run a jumper wire to the OTHER 230v terminal. Each of the 3 input lines will be connected to TWO terminals, both labled "230v". The 0V terminals will then all be jumpered together (all 6 of them). This means that each phase must run through a PAIR of primary coils, which are all wound for an input voltage of 230.

    If, for example, you have 460 volts in your shop, wire each phase to the FIRST 230v terminal, then run a jumper from that coil's 0V termial to the 230v terminal on the second coil. Then, jumper only the last 3 0V terminals together. That way, the 460v input must run through one coil, then the other coil (in series). This doubles the number of coils that the input current must run through, which compensates for the higher voltage.

    The bottom line is this: On the output (secondary) side of the transformer, you should have three phase current correct voltage for the servo motor/amplifier you are using. The output terminals are usually labeled 31L, 32L and 33L (for the X axis), 34M, 35M, and 36M (for the Y axis) and 37N, 38N, and 39N (for the Z axis). There are also three smaller termials labeled 18v, 0v, and 18v (18vac with a center-tap) for the power suppy on the servo boards, and an overheat sensor labled OH1 and OH2.

    The old SCR servos for the Fanuc model 0 motors (the smallest ones) need 60vac on the secondaries, the Fanuc model 5 motors need 90vac, and the larger 10, 20, and 30 motors need 120vac. A too-high voltage to the servo can blow a lot of fuses and possibly blow the SCRs as well.



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    Default OK,so....

    Thanks again Dan.I would really like to compensate you for this info.I know this forum and community are a kind of free site,but this info is so valuable ,I would like to keep it coming,and have you as a 'retained' consultant.I would like to talk with you live.Is it OK to call you?I'm going to be at a machine show for a coupla days,but I'd like to talk when I can be in front of the machine.Please let me know what you think.Thanks again ,Doug



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    Default 5t

    Hi Dan.Went down to the show in Santa clara ,and talked with the folks from RYM,who were very friendly.I need to do my groundwork before we go ahead with their product.I was wondering if I could get your email,so I could send a photo of my cabinet,and servos,so we're talking apples and apples.Thanks,Doug



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    Hi Doug,

    I get email at two addresses. They are subsoft@buckeyeweb.com and dan@rym.com
    If you have photos to send, just attach them to an email and I'll have a look.

    Dan



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    I need to input this program into my 5t controller
    %
    N001 M04 S300
    N002 M08
    N003 G94 f120
    N004 s300
    N005 G00 Z-5
    N006 G91
    N007 G01 Z-10
    N008 G0 Z15
    N009 M05
    N010 M09
    N011 M30
    I am used to the fagor controller with a screen, where you can see what is going on. If anyone can give me some info on how to input this into the controller it would be most appreciated. I need some english on how to do it not japanenglish .



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    Default rym

    Hi.I am a mental pygmy,so I just bought the RYM interface software and cable,and now we are talking to my old sl3a Mori just fine.Dan Fritz is the coolest.Doug



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    Default

    I baught the AMI card and am running hyperterminal but when I try to send information to the mori it brings up error on "tape parity horizontal" is that a problem with the baude rate? I have card set at 9600,7,E,2 is that what the machine will run on?



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    Smile Inputing 5T data

    John,

    I'm Steve, I have a 5t on my Howa lathe. I have been able to input programs on the machine, but it is frustrating and hard to keep track of where you are.
    I use a BTR and note book computer now, it is much easier and fun too.
    But, if you turn on your machine and make it ready for use, select TAPE MEMORY on your control panel, then go to your 5t display / key pad and press the red C key on the data key pad, then the red ERASE key on the tape edit panel, repeat this about 5-10 times to clear the memory.
    Next, to enter your program you must use the address keys (left/right arrows) to cursor the red LED to the code letter you want, like "N" then enter the numbers you want with it "001", then cursor to the next letter, "M04", then, "S300" you will enter it like this without any spaces, "N001M04S300" you will also not be able to enter decimal points and must enter 4 numerals right of the decimal point to get beyound the decimal point, 1 inch would be entered "10000" 5 inches "50000" and 10 inches "100000" at the end of the line you press the END OF BLOCK key on the tape edit panel, and repeat this format on all subsequent lines of the program, it would look like this:

    N001M04S300;
    N002M08;
    N003G94F120;
    N004S300;
    N005G00Z-50000; (if this is 5.0000 inches) or (5000 if it is .5000 inches)
    N006G91;
    N007G01Z-100000; (IF THIS IS 10.0000 INCHES)
    N008G0Z150000; (15.0000 INCHES)
    N009M05;
    N010M09;
    N011M30;

    Press INPUT, then START, and if everything is right, it should run.

    Good luck!
    Steve

    Quote Originally Posted by john-shipman@ho View Post
    I need to input this program into my 5t controller
    %
    N001 M04 S300
    N002 M08
    N003 G94 f120
    N004 s300
    N005 G00 Z-5
    N006 G91
    N007 G01 Z-10
    N008 G0 Z15
    N009 M05
    N010 M09
    N011 M30
    I am used to the fagor controller with a screen, where you can see what is going on. If anyone can give me some info on how to input this into the controller it would be most appreciated. I need some english on how to do it not japanenglish .




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5T Operating Instructions FAQ /Q&A

5T Operating Instructions FAQ /Q&A