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i was feeling lonely complaining ... nice to know i have company now.
Originally Posted by iknowyoudo
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Azam you might be on to something. How about a company that does not give empty promises.
i was feeling lonely complaining ... nice to know i have company now.
Looks like this post finally prompted a reply from George. He called us on Friday afternoon and said the parts will be shipping this week, but I've heard that plenty of times before so we shall see.
Static86,
Thanks for the update. I know how you and Azam feel. George you need to sell your DemonX 55x60 for $2000.00 USD more than you are. I don't think anyone here wants the comments to harm Georges business. Calling, email, or carrier pigeon with message as soon as a problem arises I bet would eliminate 95% of posts like below. Seems the posts are only after they were promised a date for delivery and they have no package and no word from George on the date it should have been there. I told George he should have asked for more money for the deal I'm part of and George said, "I would never ask for more money" I think it's great you are that type of person but park your ego George. When somebody tries to help let them. Easier looking in on a problem than when your in the middle of one.
I'm sure those who posted here never wanted to post here. I'll put myself at the top of that list.
Last edited by iknowyoudo; 04-09-2012 at 08:34 PM.
I'm STRONGLY suggesting you follow my advice on the first page.
I've dealt with people like Xzero before. I've been in your shoes. The only way to get what you want is to do a charge back. Otherwise you're looking at another month or two before you get all of your parts.
Believe me if i can go back, i will not do business with xzero unless i see a change in business model, second stage is to do the business but absorb 3-4% overhead and use the mechanism to provide some assurance and be able to get the deposit back if turn around is longer then in the invoice. i am buying through internet for long long long time. i even bought pretty expensive items like my entertainment and cars from internet. never have any problem except with xzero. only exception to what i am saying is to do the business when George can share the picture of my machine but what i have gone through i really have problem believing George any more.
now to George. Except for over commitment and then lying about it I really like you including your honesty in other areas and real care for the customer and machine well being. i am also asking you for at least 9 months to increase the price of the machines by at least 10-15% and keep your ego on the side. this is not your job to provide cnc to the world at lowest price. hope this increase will reduce some demand and you will be able to make some money and be able to spend time on individual orders. not sure who is advising you to sell on cost but i have never seen this aggressive pricing before especially when your competitor are not close to your price point (on paper, keep reading).
let me give you an example. your low price is not really low price. in my machine although i was in hospital yesterday i constantly keep thinking about reinforcing the middle moving channel. already made three trips to steel shop to continue to beef up the reinforcement and three trips to hw store to get the proper screws, tnuts etc. beside money and time, i am not even sure what the heck am i doing and if this will really work. if you spend some time on design and take care of these things before shipping in long run it will be cheaper for the customer. there are multiple dimension beside upfront cost or price on paper. i bought the machine to do modeling but now building the machine is taking all the time.
i can give more examples too but this is not the right platform. i am sure you have your own reason for you business model and you do not have to spend time in writing a along response, just use that time to what i, iknowyoudo, mectec54 and who knows how many of your other friends are telling about your business model. one thing more, think about your relationship with the folks who keep encouraging you sell at low price or below cost, see if they have anything to gain with your business model.
enough for early morning .... now to my machine 1)still waiting for tracking number of table top, cable chain and y axis spacer 2) waiting for shipping date for motor mount and coupler.
i really do not like to post these messages but you been good to me in few areas and hope you will see the value some day.
The Demon machine was a test machine.I could have made it a lot heaver duty. But that not what i am looklng to make. It is very simple to make the small upgrades to make it stronger . Would cost more in shipping alone to send angles. The K2 machine that was posted before i think price was 20g for same as yours. But machine is not being made no more so it don't really matter. Thats why no RaptorX have been make. Getting away from large machines and just smaller ones .
When soneone gets you banned from place you get 99% of your sales of course it will cause some problems. When someone trashes you for 3 months of course it will cause problems.When person emails are you bankrupt yet answer is no But still here.
When parts come not right and i could send them out like that as no one would know there was a problem with the part till maybe a year later, i get part replace instead of sending to person,that also causes problems .
XZero CNC
George,
minor updates which you mentioned are minor for a person with your experience and strength, i spend two hours on sliding different reinforcement plates on middle channel and now i will be on bed for at least 3-4 days. even need help to stand up and go to washroom.
calling something demo or test machine is very ambiguous. coming back to the issue i am facing right now. space below moving part is less then 1/4th of an inch. i can not life the machine to put anything below back plates and create more space (design flaw). i used 1/8th of reinforced pate in bottom and ordered thinnest possible machine screw heads, i got the screw head which is 1/8th in. had to go to other shop and ordered other type of screws and not even sure if it will fit. otherwise i will have to take 1/8 inch plate out.
i am using total of 8 reinforcement plates ( 1 in bottom, three on sides and our on top, i will put the picture in my thread in few days). i am extremely uncomfortable with reinforcement design on the fly, as i put in one plate, i think of putting more instead of sitting down and thinking about optimal reinforcement (i don't know where the force is coming from and how much, never seen this machine in operation before). have not put all the reinforcement yet but i cannot even imagine how i will be able to lift the reinforced middle moving part, put it in place and praying that ballnut fit at right place, too many things to go wrong for me. i have to machine ~100 holes just for reinforcing the middle channel. i am sure if designed properly, this step could have been much much much easier. as for cost, even if you take out the suffering, i am no sure just money wise it will be cheaper to get a heavy middle part or buy 8 plates and all the screws and t nuts.
i am sure you knew these issues and thats why you asked me to reinforce the middle part (after i installed the middle channel, at that point y axis was assembled). why not just stop the progress on the test machine and tell customer, hey there are problems and there are other alternatives in term of smaller machine or refund instead of keeping quite, putting customer in dark and let this poor guy waiting for 1+ year and finally sending him a product you are not satisfied with. you knew exactly my physical limitations and knew that this will be a almost impossible challenge for me to work around design flaws.
as for banning, i have nothing to do with it but you know what, waiting for 14 months and still waiting ..... i would have tried to ban you. you sent me more tracking numbers yesterday. not sure what is in the shipment but you are not able to give any date on motor mount or couplers. as for posting on the zone, i have no regrets. i think i would have been still waiting if i have not start posting here. before posting i gave you all the opportunity to return my money, change to small machine or send the original machine and nothing worked. i gave you multiple warnings that my postings will take both of us to mutual destruction path and you did not pay attention. i also told you that you will loose more with my posting then i and even then you did not pay any attention. little too late to complain now.
look at mirror instead of glass and you will be able to resolve most of your issues. everybody make the mistake, accept it and make the changes to not repeat same mistakes and you will see your business start picking up again.
enough of free advise for a day. i will keep quite now and will concentrate on getting better and complete my machine build.
If assembling a machine puts you in bed for three days, how on Earth do you think you are going to use it?
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Good question Ron and i keep asking myself this question few time during the day. beside router table i am also getting a mill and lathe.
assembly i am getting help but design change, i do not trust my son and his friends. also my son and co is available only during the weekend.
now health issue, either i stay on bed and feel sorry for myself for rest of my natural life or try to do something more constructive and i choose the second path. idea is to do cad/cam stuff in horizontal position and put a gentry around the table to put the stuff on the table. may be i am dreaming but worth the try. i rather fail trying instead of giving up before trying.
difficult to digest, right? my wife had the same response but now when she see a smile on my face after i spend an hour or two in the basement she knows it is worth it.
Azam,
Great attitude to have. That was the inspiration I needed for today. Thanks.
Below is a picture of the plate to add to cross member .With the 2525 ballscrew and Dmm motor at full acel and 1000ipm the bottom crossmember moves under the weight of gantry being heavy. Under normal power it don't. It is the same design on all machines and same amount of clearance.AS far as letting you know about crossmember I told you months ago and sent you pictures , I only noticed when you sent me pictures you didn't have on . Months before it was made you knew it was going to be the same as the Raptor machine but alot heavier duty. When the 2 people wanted a machine long like yours and I said no i don't do it that long no more , and sent you info that they wanted to buy yours if you didn't want it . If you look back in emails at the time the guy was wanting to buy and send you money to your account, But you said no i wont to keep it and will work out machine together to get it running good. The second person wanted one in dec but I was holding the last 55 wide for a person on their word because i really wanted that person to have it and was offered $1300 more in price if I sold to them. But said no and asked if you wanted to sell. I had told you long time before that 100+ machine is not as good as 60 inch . But you said you really wanted to do hardwood 4x8 table tops and really like to get that size and would be bonus for you. I was going to make a new 55 with design changes on a few things that would have made machine completely different and was planing to send you new one as i know the type of person you are. Like the RaptorX i had lot of people looking to get but i don't make that machine no more and as with the rest of the Raptor machines, other than what is left i am not made again even thou most likely best machine out there. Just the Viper machines and going back to parts.But one good thing about this is a got site finished and will be up right away with lots of parts and such. As with lots of the machines, there more profit is just selling the parts than machines. Maybe i made mistake about telling you DMM was a better buy for you , 5 other people have got them for my machines and not one has said a word about i should have not told them. I learned from that and now tell people I have no opinion on them and I have larger steppers for them at least one person a day . So being said I not going to post on this thread no more
XZero CNC
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