Table for Xzero machine - your thoughts & ideas

[miljnor]

Go for it!

I know how the thinking goes and discussing an engineering bases for micro-effect as they relate to macro-effects is at best interesting. At worst it shows how far engineering can deviate from practical application through diverse and complicated theories based on mathematical constructs.

When it comes down to it, build for rigidity and solve for vibrational problems. Macro first and micro last.

just my 2 cents

[theremin]

Go for it!

I know how the thinking goes and discussing an engineering bases for micro-effect as they relate to macro-effects is at best interesting. At worst it shows how far engineering can deviate from practical application through diverse and complicated theories based on mathematical constructs.

When it comes down to it, build for rigidity and solve for vibrational problems. Macro first and micro last.

just my 2 cents

I understand that approach and don't disagree on a philosophical level, but if solving for vibrational problems leads back to adding mass and stiffness to the original machine in order to compensate for an overly rigid base, does it really make sense? From an engineering standpoint, I think that designing components to work together as a system IS the macro issue. When the makeup of one component is a given, you design other pieces of the overall system to work in harmony with that given. Bridges are intentionally designed to flex so they won't break. The given in that case is vibration from traffic and natural effects. The "give" in the bridge helps absorb and slow this vibration instead of propagating it. No difference with a CNC machine. It is traffic. The base is the bridge.

But in all honesty, when you're dealing with something like these routers, if the base is sturdy enough, it's probably not going to make a difference to 99% of the user base. From that standpoint, sturdy is good and macro. Reduced vibration is icing on the cake and micro.

My .02...

[miljnor]

But in all honesty, when you're dealing with something like these routers, if the base is sturdy enough, it's probably not going to make a difference to 99% of the user base. From that standpoint, sturdy is good and macro. Reduced vibration is icing on the cake and micro.

My .02...

This is exactly the point i was trying to make...just not so hot with typing....the other thing you said is totally true.....but from hobby perspective or non-production standpoint its a wash. Really all I was indicating.

[BanduraMaker]

I understand that approach and don't disagree on a philosophical level, but if solving for vibrational problems leads back to adding mass and stiffness to the original machine in order to compensate for an overly rigid base, does it really make sense?

Michael, I have to echo this statement exactly, particularly the part in red which was my point exactly.

The Xzero machines are fast and perform very well. I'll stand by my initial assertion that it will probably perform better with a base that's got a little give to it rather than something supremely stiff and massive like a block of granite.

If you're not running them at a speed where vibration is rearing its ugly head, then the rigidity of your base really doesn't matter much does it?

[amasters]

Well, I finally have the basic structure together of the table for my Raptor32.

I purchased the legs, nuts/bolts, and corner brackets from George (parts in blue).
I purchased the 2x2" square tube sections from Allmetalsinc.com as their prices were the best I could find online. Also, they offered a more precise cut to length that enabled me to receive the tubes cut to the exact length I needed all within 1/32"! I also decided on getting the 1/8" thick wall tubes as that would add weight and rigidity to the table.

the tubes came in right on spec. Thanks All Metals! All I had to do was drill the 3/8" dia holes to match up with the corner brackets from George. I used a 13/32" drill bit after finding that the 3/8" bit made alignment of multiple holes a nightmare.

The following pictures show a "dry run" assembly of the table. I plan on getting the square tubes powder coated, but I wanted to make sure everything fit first. I engraved letters on each tube end so that I could re-assemble the table in the same way after powder coating.

I only found one issue with the brackets from George. The inside corner bracket does not allow enough room for both of the inner bolts to get their nylon self locking nuts on. You can get one nut on, but not both. See the arrow on the 3rd picture. the solution was simple. I ordered low profile nylon locking nuts from Mcmaster.

I intend to build a 80/20 enclosure around this machine and needed to make my table slightly larger to accomodate the enclosure resting on the table free and clear of the machine and the Y axis wire carrier. This caused the machine mounting points (on the bottom of the machine end plates) to not match up with the slots in George's inner corner brackets. My solution was to add a 1/4" thick alum plate on each end of the table (pics 4 and 5) that tied everything together and allowed me to bolt the machine down with some flexibilty as to exact placement.

I plan to build a plywood shelf to rest in the lower brackets for sandbags and/or extra materials.

Basic dimensions of the table are 57" x 39" x 28" high.

So far, I'm extremely happy with the table. The corner brackets are very well thought out (with that one exception) and when you bolt everything together make the table a solid rock to compliment the Raptor going on it.

[azam1959]

Andy,
Thanks

I will need this info soon and your post is helpful. In fact seeing your picture I did realize that I will need six of small span tubes instead of four for three legged table and just modified my order.

Did you use the table diagram from George or used the corner to mark for the hole on tube?

If you want, you can also answer power coding question here. Does it serve any functional requirement or just for aesthetic reason?

Say some more about reason for steel plate on both ends. I read couple of times but did not understand why you were out of alignment.

Sorry, I know I do ask too many questions.

Thanks

Well, I finally have the basic structure together of the table for my Raptor32.

I purchased the legs, nuts/bolts, and corner brackets from George (parts in blue).
I purchased the 2x2" square tube sections from Allmetalsinc.com as their prices were the best I could find online. Also, they offered a more precise cut to length that enabled me to receive the tubes cut to the exact length I needed all within 1/32"! I also decided on getting the 1/8" thick wall tubes as that would add weight and rigidity to the table.

the tubes came in right on spec. Thanks All Metals! All I had to do was drill the 3/8" dia holes to match up with the corner brackets from George. I used a 13/32" drill bit after finding that the 3/8" bit made alignment of multiple holes a nightmare.

The following pictures show a "dry run" assembly of the table. I plan on getting the square tubes powder coated, but I wanted to make sure everything fit first. I engraved letters on each tube end so that I could re-assemble the table in the same way after powder coating.

I only found one issue with the brackets from George. The inside corner bracket does not allow enough room for both of the inner bolts to get their nylon self locking nuts on. You can get one nut on, but not both. See the arrow on the 3rd picture. the solution was simple. I ordered low profile nylon locking nuts from Mcmaster.

I intend to build a 80/20 enclosure around this machine and needed to make my table slightly larger to accomodate the enclosure resting on the table free and clear of the machine and the Y axis wire carrier. This caused the machine mounting points (on the bottom of the machine end plates) to not match up with the slots in George's inner corner brackets. My solution was to add a 1/4" thick alum plate on each end of the table (pics 4 and 5) that tied everything together and allowed me to bolt the machine down with some flexibilty as to exact placement.

I plan to build a plywood shelf to rest in the lower brackets for sandbags and/or extra materials.

Basic dimensions of the table are 57" x 39" x 28" high.

So far, I'm extremely happy with the table. The corner brackets are very well thought out (with that one exception) and when you bolt everything together make the table a solid rock to compliment the Raptor going on it.

[gio666]

Well, I finally have the basic structure together of the table for my Raptor32.

I purchased the legs, nuts/bolts, and corner brackets from George (parts in blue).
I purchased the 2x2" square tube sections from Allmetalsinc.com as their prices were the best I could find online. Also, they offered a more precise cut to length that enabled me to receive the tubes cut to the exact length I needed all within 1/32"! I also decided on getting the 1/8" thick wall tubes as that would add weight and rigidity to the table.

the tubes came in right on spec. Thanks All Metals! All I had to do was drill the 3/8" dia holes to match up with the corner brackets from George. I used a 13/32" drill bit after finding that the 3/8" bit made alignment of multiple holes a nightmare.

The following pictures show a "dry run" assembly of the table. I plan on getting the square tubes powder coated, but I wanted to make sure everything fit first. I engraved letters on each tube end so that I could re-assemble the table in the same way after powder coating.

I only found one issue with the brackets from George. The inside corner bracket does not allow enough room for both of the inner bolts to get their nylon self locking nuts on. You can get one nut on, but not both. See the arrow on the 3rd picture. the solution was simple. I ordered low profile nylon locking nuts from Mcmaster.

I intend to build a 80/20 enclosure around this machine and needed to make my table slightly larger to accomodate the enclosure resting on the table free and clear of the machine and the Y axis wire carrier. This caused the machine mounting points (on the bottom of the machine end plates) to not match up with the slots in George's inner corner brackets. My solution was to add a 1/4" thick alum plate on each end of the table (pics 4 and 5) that tied everything together and allowed me to bolt the machine down with some flexibilty as to exact placement.

I plan to build a plywood shelf to rest in the lower brackets for sandbags and/or extra materials.

Basic dimensions of the table are 57" x 39" x 28" high.

So far, I'm extremely happy with the table. The corner brackets are very well thought out (with that one exception) and when you bolt everything together make the table a solid rock to compliment the Raptor going on it.

Yes one corner bolt has to go in the opposite way . Also bolts are a little tight because of the powder coating. Easier if drill hole a little to slide in easier

[gio666]

if your going to get powder coated i can send the color code of the powder coat

[gio666]

Also powder coated wrenches for Tekno spindles in same blue

[amasters]

Azam,

No, you don't ask too many questions. The only wrong question, or stupid question, is the one you did NOT ask. <grin>

I used the bracket to mark the holes on the tubes. I also re-drilled the holes in the brackets with a 3/8" drill to remove any excess powder coat that made the holes a little too tight.

The inner corner brackets have a long 3" slot in them designed to line up with the mounting screw hole on the bottom of George's machines. But, this assumes you place the machine on the table perfectly centered. (left to right, front to back). I did not want to do this as my Y axis (the longest axis) has a wire chain that extends out along side the Y axis and needs to lay down on the table as the gantry moves back and forth. So I pushed the machine further back on the table to allow for the extra room that the wire chain needs. This made the machine sit off-center on the table and now would not line up with the slots in the inner corner brackets. The 8" wide plates extend the full length of each side and allow me to mount the machine without worrying about if I have a place to drill thru. [The plate also strengthens the end of the table as an added benefit]

I will have a picture in the next few days of the machine on the table. It will be much clearer then.

The powder coating is purely cosmetic/aesthetic. It serves no structural purpose. It does, however, prevent the parts from rust better than normal painting.

The corner brackets that George sends you will be powder coated already. I just decided to go ahead and powder coat the tubes as well. I'll probably go with black as a color.

Powder coating is not paint. It actually is a powder made of plastic that is electrostatically coated onto the part first and then the part goes into an oven where the powder melts into a nice smooth surface. It is much tougher and stronger than regular paint.

[azam1959]

Thanks Andy. Still have few questions on the second picture from yesterday's post but I will hold for now. Let me get the tubes and legs and may be things will be clearer.

I am planning to put the shelf on both lower and upper level. I have not done any calculations but I think we need weight on top too plus it will serve the same purpose as your steel plates. I am also planning on a slightly longer table to put monitor on the table instead of separate stand.

Thanks for the posts, I am right behind you and just following your foot steps.

Azam,

No, you don't ask too many questions. The only wrong question, or stupid question, is the one you did NOT ask. <grin>

I used the bracket to mark the holes on the tubes. I also re-drilled the holes in the brackets with a 3/8" drill to remove any excess powder coat that made the holes a little too tight.

The inner corner brackets have a long 3" slot in them designed to line up with the mounting screw hole on the bottom of George's machines. But, this assumes you place the machine on the table perfectly centered. (left to right, front to back). I did not want to do this as my Y axis (the longest axis) has a wire chain that extends out along side the Y axis and needs to lay down on the table as the gantry moves back and forth. So I pushed the machine further back on the table to allow for the extra room that the wire chain needs. This made the machine sit off-center on the table and now would not line up with the slots in the inner corner brackets. The 8" wide plates extend the full length of each side and allow me to mount the machine without worrying about if I have a place to drill thru. [The plate also strengthens the end of the table as an added benefit]

I will have a picture in the next few days of the machine on the table. It will be much clearer then.

The powder coating is purely cosmetic/aesthetic. It serves no structural purpose. It does, however, prevent the parts from rust better than normal painting.

The corner brackets that George sends you will be powder coated already. I just decided to go ahead and powder coat the tubes as well. I'll probably go with black as a color.

Powder coating is not paint. It actually is a powder made of plastic that is electrostatically coated onto the part first and then the part goes into an oven where the powder melts into a nice smooth surface. It is much tougher and stronger than regular paint.

[amasters]

OK, so here are a few pictures of the machine just sitting on the table. It's not bolted down, but it is in the final position.

I mentioned this before that I had to set the machine off-center in order to make sure the wire chain from the Y axis would still be inside the table edges and leave enough room to have an enclosure sit on the very outside edges of the 2x2" tubing. This offset of the machine is why I had to use the 1/4" aluminum plate on each end of the table. This allows me to bolt the machine down anywhere on the plate.

I also plan to add another aluminum plate that runs on the edge between the existing plates in the photo. This will give the wire chain a place to rest on.