Very, VERY Unhappy in Illinois

[Treischl]

I purchased a power supply and motor driver from CandCNC a little over a year ago. Tom at CandCNC did a terrific job helping me get it all hooked up, very patient and a good attitude.

The machine hummed along for about a year, then disaster struck. It quit working. I sent it down to CandCNC and Tom had to send the driver boards to XyloTex.

A month passed, no word from Xlyotex. Finally, Xlylotex informed Tom that the card was past the 3 month warranty and that it was past the 1 year rebuild period. Fine, none of that surprised me. Tom ordered a new card. Tom has bought LOTS of cards from Xylotex, but he did not get a discount.

Turns out, Xylotex shipped a replacement card that is different. I cannot just use the original motor plugins, Tom says it will be difficult to attach the wiring unless the box is disassembled and the amperage is different. Gee, does this make me feel good or what?

So, when it gets back, I have to get rid of the original quick disconnects which are handy for switching between 3 axis and 4 axis work. Then fiddle around wiring it up myself. (If I had wanted to do that, I would have built my own in the first place). Plus, once it is installed, washers need to go under the board so it angles up to meet the holes in the case.

Terrific job Xylotex. Did it ever occur to them that they need to support a product they were selling a year ago? I don't think so, or they just don't care.

I never expected to get it fixed for free, money is not an issue, what is an issue is how I will not have the system I paid for a year ago, instead I will have some kludged up mess. Thanks Xylotex.

[hybidder]

Glad I bought Geckos.

[HeritageAmps]

hey, i'm just down I-88 from you aways... in the quad cities...

Les

[Monte]

Originally Posted by Treischl (some sniped)I never expected to get it fixed for free, money is not an issue, what is an issue is how I will not have the system I paid for a year ago, instead I will have some kludged up mess. Thanks Xylotex.

Did Xylotex build the controller? Think about what you are expecting. You bought a controller over a year ago, built by someone other than Xylotex, built around a Xylotex board. Now the board is different, a year later. Things change. Maybe the controller builder needed to get a long term OEM agreement with Xylotex to build those same boards for years and years. Maybe that's who's at fault , not Xylotex.

Bummer your controller needs to be modified, but don't give Xylotex grief for something they didn't build, i.e. the controller as a whole.

Monte

[Treischl]

Hi Monte,

As I mentioned in my post, CandCNC has bought LOTS of driver boards from Xylotex, over a hundred according to Tom at CandCNC. Xylotex knew that. Did they think those boards just disappeared? I doubt it. Xylotex also knows that those boards are used in machines that have a lifespan much greater than 1 year.

There is a bit more to this story. If you take a look at the Xylotex site, there is no way to talk to him/them. Just an email address.

My impression is that Xylotex is a one man operation (which is fine, so am I) who builds those boards as a part time job. That would account for the lack of commitment on the part of Xylotex to the customers.

As for your comments about the OEM making a long term commitment, that is irrelevant. If I had built the controller myself, I would still be in a mess. So it has nothing to do with the OEM. In fact, CandCNC worked very hard to straighten this mess out. So think of this, Xylotex has turned its back on one of its larger customers, imagine what Xylotex would do to an individual.

Tom from CandCNC has informed me that CandCNC is coming out with a new controller in a few months, and it will NOT be using Xylotex, that should tell us all something.

[Monte]

Um, wow. I'm sorry you think you got screwed by Xylotex, but I respectfully disagree that their product shouldn't change and evolve, which is what I think you think shouldn't happen. I think.

Slamming someone like Xylotex on a public forum like this is lame, especially if you haven't actually communicated with them, and if it's not really a dispute between you and them. Yeah, CandCNC has bought lots of boards from them, so it seems that the dispute should be between CandCNC and Xylotex, not you and Xylotex. I haven't seen CandCNC yelling about it. They're just changing suppliers it seems.

Good luck with your next controller.

Regards,
Monte
(not affiliated with Xylotex, I just own one of their boards)

[Treischl]

Monte:

I never said his product should not change. He needs to stock repair parts for a reasonable period, less than a year is NOT a reasonable period. It is a cost of doing business.

Since you own one of his boards, you of all people should be interested in being able to obtain a replacement if required, instead of having to rip your system apart and start rewiring.

According to you: "Slamming someone like Xylotex on a public forum like this is lame, especially if you haven't actually communicated with them, and if it's not really a dispute between you and them."

Fact: I have not SLAMMED anyone. I just have stated the facts of what has happened and what I think is wrong about it.

Fact: It is tough to communicate with a "business" that does not have a telephone number. It is even tougher when that "business" has already told one of his major customers (CandCNC) that he will not repair or replace the boards.

Fact: It really is a dispute between me and Xylotex since Xylotex MAKES the boards and refuses to make replacements, stock spares or repair them.

You may think it is "lame" for me to bring this up on a forum, but what part of the definition of "forum" do you not understand? Or are you one of those people who thinks the forums should only say nicey nice things?

By the way, Monte, Good Luck with your XYLOTEX controller, hope you bought spare parts already, or are prepared to have to rip it all apart if it develops a problem.

[hybidder]

Originally Posted by Treischl Since you own one of his boards, you of all people should be interested in being able to obtain a replacement if required, instead of having to rip your system apart and start rewiring.

I have to agree. While I'm all for product advancement I'm also in favor of supporting your previous product versions. If every new model year automobile manufacturers stopped making repair and replacement parts for the last year's model do you really think anyone would be interested in buying one?

I actually appreciate Treischl letting the rest of us know about his experience with the company. Considering his posts here as well as others which are both favorable and not so much, readers can make more informed decisions as to which components to purchase.

The statement regarding CANDCNC changing suppliers is also a strong consideration. If a manufacturer isn't looking after a big fish (in this small market) they certainly aren't going out of their way for little guys like us.

Originally Posted by Monte Yeah, CandCNC has bought lots of boards from them, so it seems that the dispute should be between CandCNC and Xylotex, not you and Xylotex.

Again I'll use the automobile analogy,

If you buy an automobile from an authorized dealership and it turns out to be a lemon would you just sit back quietly and consider YOUR problems to be an issue between the dealer and the manufacturer even after the manufacturer refused to supply repair parts? I seriously doubt it....

Originally Posted by Monte I haven't seen CandCNC yelling about it. They're just changing suppliers it seems.

Which is an intelligent business decision on their part. Would you really expect a business person of reasonable intelligence to come out swinging regarding a product he has been selling and promoting long term? The best way to handle it and retain as much market integrity as possible would be to keep it as "low key" as possible. Coming out and saying "I sold you a POS" isn't going to endear him to many previous buyers or future purchasers.

[Treischl]

Thanks for your comments Hybidder.

All of your points were well taken.

Here is an example of what a supplier SHOULD do:

Tom at CandCNC sent me an email saying I would have to hardwire the motors in because of the change in boards. As we all know, I was not too happy about that. I dropped Tom an email (spoke to him on the telephone too) and told him why that made me unhappy. Tom was ready to ship my item, he pulled and added some extensions to it so it would be plug and play. Here is the rub, Tom only charged me for the new board from Xylotex, he didn't make a nickel on adding extensions. What does Tom get for his efforts?

CUSTOMER LOYALTY. You can bet that when I am ready to go faster and Tom has his new whizz bang controller out, I am going to buy it. Simply put, Tom does the right thing, without even trying, it just comes naturally to him, an honest guy.

[Dolphin USA]

I'll have to agree with Treischl as well. I can understand if it was something bought 10 years ago. But 1 year ago?? And no phone number to call??

[Monte]

Originally Posted by Treischl sniped.... By the way, Monte, Good Luck with your XYLOTEX controller, hope you bought spare parts already, or are prepared to have to rip it all apart if it develops a problem.

I own a Xylotex board, not a controller. I can toss any board/driver I want into my controller. We'll just have to respectfully agree to disagree.

Like I said, good luck and regards,
Monte

[keebler303]

It may have been a better idea to make things backward compatible, but obviously they will change over time to become better products. I respect their decision not to stock repair/replacement parts. You must remember we are not talking about a car, we are talking about a small electronic device which can be viewed as "throw away" after a certain period of time. Much like a stereo or microwave oven, which are cheaper to buy than replace. After a short period, the cost involved in shipping, diagnosing and repairing old boards becomes close to the cost of buying a new board. There could be other factors involved which forced a change. For example, a supplier of an IC may stop producing a certain part, if the xylotex design was built around this chip, it would necessarily force a redesign and would also make replacement parts hard to find.

The rock bottom price market xylotex is in does not allow for customer support or taking the loss normally incurred with fixing blown drives. Xylotex sells drives by being one of the cheapest on the market. A feature many hobbyists place ahead of service, until their drives die or they have a problem.

While I understand that you are upset, I think the best course of action would be to:

1) put your money where your mouth is, don't buy another xylotex drive if you don't support their business practices. thats why there is a free market.

2) buy a controller based on modular drives, I use gecko drives on several machines and love them. The new revisions have always been in the same exact case and with similar or exactly the same pinouts. If one died, the new one would be almost guaranteed to fit in exactly where the old one resided.

3) after purchasing said geckodrives, sit back and relax knowing that you purchased some of the best drives on the market, there is always excellent customer support, you can call the company and speak to the man who designed the drives (Mariss) if you ever had problems. Mariss also has a large presence on the forum and in my opinion, is a top notch guy.


Let this be a small lesson to xylotex, make your drives backward compatible if at all possible as many folks rely on everything fitting even after a new board revision has been produced.

Good luck getting your machine up and running again, whichever path you choose to take.

Matt