SX3 with Mach 3 Spindle Control.

[cjdavis618]

Well, after I got done with a cutting op last night, I went for the stop buton on my X3 mill and the screen went blank and the machine started beeping continuously.

This would be the second controller board that has went out in my mill and I have wanted to control it with Mach for some time. At this point, I do not care about the front controller panel anymore and I am now going to use the motor and find a controller that can be operated via my C11G board that will work with the motor that is in the mill.

I considered getting a new servo motor and driver that would have higher rpm and more power, but I can't say I have ever had problems cutting with this one due to lack of power.

Now starts my quest to make a SX3 Mach 3 controlled:

Obviously, with the way the system is designed with the tapping functions, controller buttons, etc. I can not interface with the onboard power board for the motor. Many have tried and it always requires an interface board that no one has yet made to the public. Since that is the case, I am going to do away with all of that and just control the motor without the onboard electronics from the mill. Essentially, I am going to control it from outside the cabinet using Mach 3 only.


To start this process, I have fuond the information about the motor and here is a photo with part numbers and info for reference. Next step, find an external Brushless drive that will work with this motor that has a 0-10v control circuit.

Now, when it comes to servos, I know very little. Is there a way that I could put an encoder on this motor I have and be able to get an RPM reading, or is the best method to match mach with the voltage output of the c11g card and actual rpms.

the encoder could be used at later times I suppose for other purposes, tapping Etc. Can the Brushless drives reverse a motor in a tapping operation like this if I had an encoder or something?


Here is the SX3 motor photo.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y17...s/2c319086.jpg

[Teyber12]

i can't answer your questions, and im sure you have seen it but MRM rcmodels had a great write up on doing it to his x3, but he also fried his x3 controller so used a different one.

If you can't find it ill link it for you.

cheers

[cjdavis618]

I think his was the standard X3 though. They have a completely different system of motor control.

So far the only company that I know of that can do Mach3 spindle control is Syil with the added ectl control board that goes between the front panel and the speed board in the rear cabinet.

Even then, it appears that the ectl board only "emulates" the button entries on the front panel to do the same task.

[Crevice Reamer]

The three phase motor itself uses Hall Effect sensors, which give a constant position report to the controller. ONE of these can also update a tachometer.

This research is much needed and long awaited. Good Luck and Godspeed!

CR.

[cjdavis618]

Thanks Guys,

I have resolved myself not to cower down and get the replacement from Grizzly. I have wanted to be able to control this mill from Mach for a long time.

I have contacted Keling Inc and they say they do not have a drive that can do what I need. It appeared as though the Granite Devices drive will work with Brushless DC motors and has what I need. For some reason, Keling said it wouldn't. The only Details I have of the Granite are from thier website and this PDF, but I still think it may work. Any body have any idea why it wouldn't? It doesn't show outputs or anything in the PDF though.

http://www.granitedevices.fi/assets/...ingStarted.pdf


I even asked them if I was to use a different motor and drive combination, did they have a set. Interestingly, they still said no. On the website, they show a .75 kw AC servo motor with a drive that says it can run in velocity mode. As far as I know, that is what I am looking for (Without the $900 price though) http://www.kelinginc.net/ACServoMotor.html also, the motor in the mill is 1kw. I would like to stay that size or higher.


I'm not against changing the motor out to a larger one. Price is not a concern as long as it fits the bill and works well with mach control. But if I get above $600 or so for just a drive, then I will just buckle down and get the Tormach or Mikini.

Thanks for keeping this thread going. If we can pool our knowledge together, we will figure this out.

[Crevice Reamer]

I have NO idea what these cost, but it looks like a plug in solution:

http://www.baldor.com/support/litera...tNumber=FL1210

http://www.baldor.com/support/litera...nNumber=MN1365

At the very least, it seems to indicate that there MAY be a solution out there somewhere.

CR.

[Crevice Reamer]

Found a list price. OUCH! $515 - $626.

http://www.baldor.com/pdf/501_Catalo...18_InvVect.pdf

CR.

[cjdavis618]

That's a good find CR. Thanks.

The 320v output is very interesting. Everything I have read said that this motor was a BLDC motor. However, there is no place online that I can find reference to this sx3 motor except here. Being 230v/6a motor though, I have to wonder if this is just simply a 3phase ac motor. (I would sure like it to be for the price of controlling it.)

I found this drive on Ebay and according to the tech doc, it shows that the output will be 1.4 times the input. At 120v here at my place, it should run at 168v. that will not run the motor at even the full speed it did before. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...:X:RTQ:US:1123


Another Item I'm looking at is this, http://cgi.ebay.com/WATER-COOLE-MOTO...QQcmdZViewItem

I thought if I were to mount this in place of the other motor and keep the belt system in place, I could run this and get higher rpms. I know that the 24k is unrealistic, but I could probably get 8krpm or so out of it. I have replaced the bearings in my spindle and they are good to 9k. I believe the spindle will work. This could be done much like the other high speed spindle setups, except with bigger vfd and motor than even the original.

I know this wouldn't give me any chance at a tapping tool, but since I mostly mill aluminum, this would be much better than the rpms I get now. I think that is a fair trade off.

Thoughts?

[cjdavis618]

Also

Cavity that the existing motor fits in is 3.815 x same x 6.737. I know castings will be different but that is what I have for room.

[Crevice Reamer]

They are NOT the same as 3 phase AC motors.

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com...less-motor.htm

http://www.microchip.com/stellent/id...GE&nodeId=1523

CR.

[cjdavis618]

I certainly agree.

My problems is how in the world is seig building these systems the way they are so cheap. A comparable drive to run this motor, like you found runs $500 or more. I know that this is made in China, but finding a different motor, drive and running it from Mach 3 shouldn't be this hard.

I'm not set on this particular motor. In fact, I also looked at a 2.2Kw Fanuc,( Which I know is to much power) that would work with a common drive.


Maybe old-megawatts or Niel can chime in here and point us in the right direction. But as of this point, I am finding nothing in a pricerange that is even reasonable to drive this motor. Not even if I didn't want mach control.

I really need to find more info about this motor and I can't test anything with my rig being down.

If I find a AC drive, and an AC motor that are rated together, would I still be able to keep the low speed torque? That is the part that I am missing I guess.



Sorry, lots to take in in a short time.

[Crevice Reamer]

Maybe we should consider building our OWN controller using one of the available Hall Sensor controller IC chips:

http://www.nxp.com/acrobat_download/.../AN10661_1.pdf

http://www.actel.com/documents/bldc_...control_AN.pdf

http://www.microchip.com/stellent/id...GE&nodeId=1523

http://www.microchip.com/stellent/id...pnote=en012037

http://www.pmdcorp.com/advanced-moti...controller.cfm

http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/p...ts/doc8138.pdf

http://www.en-genius.net/site/zones/...grnpowp_120406

A possible motor replacement:

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/21...2GM_300HA.html

Someday we may find an all-in-one controller chip powerful enough to directly run the motor:

http://powerelectronics.com/motor_po..._motor_driver/

CR.