G6019 Questions

[707Chipper]

First Post here I been spending hours upon hours reading until my eyes hurt, I've learned a lot so far i think.
Im buying my first mill(G0619) just for hobby stuff, maybe a little more once i learn the ropes.
From Grizzly Im going to buy the Mill, a clamping kit, and a 115pc titanium drill index. Im already over budget right there but i can stretch it a little more.

I still want a vise. Not sure what to get, I want something better than grizzly precision vise but no way can i afford a kurt. I want something versatile, quality with a decent amout of weight to it in the 5 inch range.
Any recomendations??
I got my eye on this one. But not sure on the chinacom quality.

Of course I need some end mills. Ill just buy a couple at first so i can make some chips. probably just a 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2''

Whats the best way to mount end mills to the mill? Ive read the arguments between r8 collets and the set screw type end mill holders but theres so much out there my head is spinning. Does anyone have any experience with the quick change collet systems? whats the best bang for the buck for a beginner like myself?

Next thing ill need from day 1 will be a dial indicator and a holding system for it. I know your not suppose to skimp on these but man they are expensive. Im thinking about going with a mitutoyo brand or maybe something a little cheaper/less quality?? ALSO I'm looking for the most versatile system to mount the indicator to, I'm guessing just a magnet base with a few swivel points on it.

A little more about my self and my exp.
Ive never used a mill before so I'm a total newb but i do have some knowledge from the endless amounts of reading I've done on here. I don't like cheap stuff I'm the type of person to just about always buy close to the best but i just can't afford all the best stuff right now at one time. I want to just get the basics at first and if i have to spend a little more here and there on something because its more versatile I'm cool with that.

LoL i started this whole "i need a mill" idea with a budget of about $1500 and it ended up I'm going to spend about 1k more than that..Good Times. Its just money, its made to be spent

thanks in advance for any help and or advise. You guys are awesome.
adam

[707Chipper]

since i had 0 posts i couldn't post links....heres a link to the vise
Ultra Precision Milling Machine Vise - Type 2 (Meda Series 388) - Machine Shop Discount Supply/Quad Machinery & Supply

[cornbinder23]

A 6" is a bit on the big side for these machines a 5" is perfect, I use 2 4" gerrardi vices on my SX3 and its a perfect fit IMO.
Here is a link to Glacerns 5" vise

Also, as far as tool holding its all a matter of preference, some like one, some like the other. Each have their advantages, set screw style end mill holders will give you more clearance around the tool, standard R8 collets are cheap and fairly rigid.
I use the Tormach TTS tooling system. It uses a standard R8 holder and they have a very large array of tool holders and other items for it.

As far as measuring instruments, well you get what you pay for.
Very good deals on used can be had on your local craigs list.
Mitutoyo, Starret, Browne and Sharpe are good brands but if you are just starting out you really need to figure out what your precision requirements really are. We dont make parts for space shuttles with these little machines.

JTCUSTOMS

[707Chipper]

i really like that glacern vise...i think id rather have one you can put on its side or end but you can't have the moon and the stars on my budget...

i looked into the TTS it looks like a very convenient system. I think once i get rollin and making some chips ill probably go that route for tool holders. But as of now just to start out n get my feet wet i think ill just get a few end mills with the same shank diameter so i can use the same collet while switching out a few different tools.

As for the dial indicator ur right were not building space ships lol but i would like something i can count on being right ya know.
Thanks for your input...really appreciate it.

[707Chipper]

my next question relates to the quality of drill bits, end mills, reamers ect compared to my exp. level. I have a feeling while I'm learning the ropes I'm going to be tearing up some tooling with to fast or to slow feed rates, cut depth ect.
So I'm thinking i should start off with some hss or cobalt CHINA bits, end mills ect. maybe one GOOD USA carbide end mill for finish cuts....whats you guys opinion on that?

[cornbinder23]

HSS will stay sharper longer, carbide's benifits come with heavier chip loads. At less than optimal chip loads carbide tends to rub and will dull very quickly.
With the structural limitations of these machines its very hard to reap the benefits of carbide.

Look up Gwizard, it is a feed and speed calculator that can be tailored to the benchtop machines.
CNC Cookbook: Software and Information for Machinists

JTCUSTOMS

[707Chipper]

would mounting the mill on a sturdy metal table thats lagged down to my garage floor help in rigidity over putting it on a wood work bench?

[cornbinder23]

I would definitely bolt it down to something rigid be it wood or metal, but the mounting surface has to be very flat as you can easily distort the base throwing all tramming measurements out of whack.
Sounds like you are going to be using this as a manual machine?
Mine is converted to cnc and I am quite happy with it
Here is a link to my SX3 build
You can see the stand I built for mine on posts #8 #9 it is 2x3 heavy wall tubing, a little overkill but I was incorporating an enclosure as well, because once converted to cnc that thing just shot rooster tails of chips until I started using flood coolant

JTCUSTOMS

[707Chipper]

yes at first i plan on using it manually, see how i like it and maybe either upgrade to power feed and dro or cnc in the future I'm not sure yet.

that table you made is pretty much SPOT on to what I had built in my head but i planned on making some sort of leveling feet along with a way to lag (redhead) it to my garage floor.

[AdamC]

yes at first i plan on using it manually, see how i like it and maybe either upgrade to power feed and dro or cnc in the future I'm not sure yet.

Advice from a rank amateur welcome?

I think these mills are too sloppy to do good work on their own. In fact, they require a fair bit of fettling to get them in reasonable shape. On good mills, you can trust the dials. On these mills you can't. That leaves you with 2 or maybe 3 options:

1) do all your layout work by hand and work to lines on the workpiece. This is a good practice but you need some decent layout tools-a surface plate, a surface gage, good quality squares, punches, maybe a protractor etc. I think it's a good idea to buy all this stuff anyway, if you don't already have it. My advice is to bottom feed Starrett stuff on ebay.

2) switch to DRO immediately. This allows you to do your layout work while milling. I love my dro and would be lost without.

3) Go straight to CNC.

Back to option 1, I think you need some decent basic tools just to inspect and calibrate our chinese junk. Are the chinese parallels really parallel? What about your vise? I would start with a good master square like a Starrett no. 20. Amazing how much stuff is sold as square but isn't. I have 123 blocks that aren't even close to square on at least one of their faces.

Surface plates are super cheap, especially with free shipping and I get the sense mine are what ENCO says they are.

Next, you need a good test indicator. Long Island Indicator has good advice. I've found the chinese DTIs to be fine. Only downside is their dovetails don't fit my noga arms (or anything else for that matter). And they don't come with studs that fit most stuff either. You really want 8mm/ 5/16".

I've gotten some great deals on second hand professional quality machinist tools. You just have to be patient and do your homework. For vises, I use and recommend a Hermann Schmidt grinding vise. They are a nice size for these little mills. I especially like the way they attach to the table without hokey clamps. You bolt it down thru c'bored holes in it's base. The fact that it's super accurate doesn't hurt either. You can often find these for less than a "quality" chinese mill vise.

I get the sense when it comes to pro equipment, real pros buy new. Second hand pro stuff goes for next to nothing. Only other point I'd like to make is that pro machinists work in shops with master tools they can use to inspect their purchases. They also buy new tools that come with certs/calibration. If you buy chinese tools or second hand tools, you need high quality metrology tools to know what you are getting. If you don't want to do this (and I did so reluctantly) I think you need to buy new tools you can trust, rely on your DRO, or resign yourself to chasing your tail a bit.

helpful or stuff you already knew?

[707Chipper]

Long story short I never got the mill back in January but I'm back in the market for one. After a lot more research I've decided to get the G0463 instead and cnc it right away. I'm trying to gather all the conversion parts I think I've got it mostly figured out. Here what I will be buying. What am I missing? I'm so confused, this is all new to me.

G0463 mill
Cnc fusion delux kit
Gecko G540 4 axis step driver
2x nema 23 motors (not sure what oz size or other specifics I need)
1x nema 34 motor (not sure on oz or details again)
Some kind of power supply?

Am I missing anything?
Is there a kit that has the step drive, motors, power supply, e stop ect?

Thanks

[H500]

I'm using three KL23H276-30-8B motors from here:
Stepper Motor