Ready to buy a seig X3, looking for something turnkey

[PriddyShiddy]

forgot to say- reread those 6 month build threads and look at the dates. most have a month between posts reporting a day worth of progress because they had other priorities, lack of funds, health problems, our didn't have the knowledge base available to them that is currently here, our the kits that are now available. took edison 1600 attempts to get the first production filament for his light bulb... takes me seconds to instal it because others paved the way.

[peterpan84]

Great review! No problem about ranting on holidays, I think the holidays is the best time for me to invest more time in this hobby

Everyone seems to mention cleaning the X3, is this really nescessary for performance or is it just a cosmetic thing? If I skip the cosmetics, have all the parts ready (gecko 540, power supply, cnc fusion deluxe kit, wires, etc) can this project be done over the weekend? Is there a lot of room for error when putting on the CNCfusion kit?

As far as software goes, Mach3 software is $150 and I can use a free CAM program or buy one at the same price ($150). I know google sketchup is good enough to make the parts I want to build at first and tried Autocad the other day and it seems to be a similar concept. Going to try Solidworks as well. Should I be investing a lot of my time in google sketchup or do I really need to learn a more advanced CAD program in order to make good parts?

Does the CNC fusion kit come with all the configuration settings for Mach3? If not, is there a website or forum post out there that tells me how to set up Mach3 for use with the converted X or SX3?

The KX3 will likely cost me just about $4000 with a stand. Probably won't invest in a coolant system until I know I need it and can built an enclosure so coolant doesn't fly into my apartments white walls

What would make the CNCFusion converted X3 better quality than the KX3? I would assume the main thing would be high quality ball screws, anything else? This is becoming a very tough decision and I have narrowed it down to just a couple options now so I appreciate all the help.

[TaK]

The cleaning we are referring to is the packing grease that the mill is covered with for shipping. All the exposed surfaces are covered with this thick, sticky grease to prevent them rusting during transport. You do need to clean it off any new mill. It just takes some time, a bunch of rags, and about 0.25gal of WD40.

You can definitely do all the labor in an X3 conversion in a weekend if you already have all the parts. I would give you about a 10% chance of getting everything on hand to build everything in a weekend and get cutting. Expect you will forget something and have to place another order or two.

Please do not expect to be cutting quality pieces very quickly. The hardware setup is the lesser part of the time commitment. You need to learn your software and how it interacts with your hardware. After that, it will still take many pieces before you are cutting things well. I think it was about 2 months before I was cutting things I was proud of.

The software setup is mostly setting up Mach3 to run with the G540 and only uses some easy constants from the CNC Fusion kit. The G540 webpage has a setup file for Mach3.

Sketchup is not an engineering program and not really suited for making designs for machining in my opinion. That said, I know some people use it for that purpose. Solidworks and Autocad are in a different league. You might look at Alibre software as a middle ground. I think it is $100 and it looked good, but I haven't used it. There is a forum in CNCZone for it though.

I don't know enough about the KX3 for a good compare, but there are a lot of converted X3's out there, so you'd be in good company. I haven't read about anyone using a KX3 on this forum in my travels here.

TK

[peterpan84]

Ok, that explains it about the cleaning. Would it hurt to keep the grease on? Maybe it will protect it against future rust?

I have started playing around with CAM software today, I was able to get a hold of MasterCam, Cut3D by Vectric, and Bobcad. MasterCam seems extremely confusing, I think I am going to stay away from it until I need to produce weird parts. The parts I intend to create right now are really simple. Like a square with some holes in it. I designed it in sketchup which can be converted into Autocad, STL, etc. I played with the Cut3D demo and it seems to be extremely simple so might start off with that. I have also been running some samples in Mach3 without any CNC machine connected to try to learn a bit more. Haven't tried bobcad yet but going to try it now. I appreciate the help!

[ImagineRobots]

.....
The KX3 will likely cost me just about $4000 with a stand. Probably won't invest in a coolant system until I know I need it and can built an enclosure so coolant doesn't fly into my apartments white walls

What would make the CNCFusion converted X3 better quality than the KX3? I would assume the main thing would be high quality ball screws, anything else? This is becoming a very tough decision and I have narrowed it down to just a couple options now so I appreciate all the help.

These mills are heavy! Make sure you can get it into your apartment. It's not uncommon to use an engine or chain hoist to move these things.

I recommend you buy a turnkey solution so you can focus on making parts. You might also want to consider the Syil machines even though there have been some quality issues in the past. The folks at Probotix seem to be happy with their Syil and plan to carry it. Tormach is the safe bet but it comes at a higher price point. There's also a Taig CNC that is much smaller but also a lot easier to move around. I don't recommend getting a Sherline conversion because the lead screws and nuts are way too small on the mill compared to the Taig.

I just spent all of December converting an X3 to CNC. Things can easily spiral out of control during a build. A turnkey solution takes care of many of these details. ie: one shot lubrication system for the ways and ball nuts, bellow covers for keeping out swarf, covers for the stepper motors, limit switches, wiring from the steppers to the controllers, spindle control interface, power supply setup, etc. These details can kill a lot of time on a scratch build even with a "bolt on" kit from CNC Fusion. Taking apart the mill isn't always easy especially when some of the bearings in the Z axis are almost pressed fit on (in my case). There's also risk involved with a scratch build like frying your electronics due to bad wiring, damaging a part on the mill during the tear down, etc. You just have to be prepared for things like this and better make sure you are committed once you start.

I did learn a lot with the conversion but I'm not sure it was worth any cost savings over a turnkey solution.

Attached is a pic of my progress. Almost done with the one shot oiler system (what a pain!). Should be enough to scare you into getting a turnkey ;-)

[peterpan84]

So the HM-135 is a no go since locally they are asking about $7000 which is a big no no. The only reason I wanted it was because I can grab it today but not paying $7000 for a $4000 machine. The KX3 was my next choice but they haven't replied to my last email yet so I contacted Syil and worked out a deal on the X4 machine with some accessories. They said it can ship within 10 days so am going to wire them the money tomorrow unless someone here disagrees. Thank you to everyone for your help!

[peterpan84]

Do you guys think I should get the 220V version or the 110V one? I will be moving it to the US within a year but right now am in Indonesia which uses 220V. I just read something about overheating problems with 220V. If I get a 110V version and a $100 voltage converter, should I be okay?

[ImagineRobots]

Do you guys think I should get the 220V version or the 110V one? I will be moving it to the US within a year but right now am in Indonesia which uses 220V. I just read something about overheating problems with 220V. If I get a 110V version and a $100 voltage converter, should I be okay?

Seems like you should go with the 120VAC if you will be moving to the US. You won't find 240VAC in most US apartments (unless you hijack a dryer outlet).

I don't have first hand experience using a 240VAC to 120VAC converter but you'll want to do a lot of research to make sure the converter can handle the motor startup currents. Pretty sure you want one that is transformer based and I believe those things can be very heavy (cost?) Stay away from the electronics based converters since I don't think most are design to handle motors.

Also, I believe in general the line frequency at 240VAC is 50hz. In the US, the line frequency is 60 hz. Make sure the 120VAC Syil which would typically run at 60hz is ok at 50 hz. I would ask Syil about the inverter question and the line frequency. Hopefully they won't say it voids the warranty.

[arose62]

I recently converted my X3 using the Cnckits.com.au kit.

You get everything you need in the one box, and it took me about 4 days from start to finish, with life getting in the way as usual.
The only holes I had to make in the X3 were in the rear sheet metal cover, to neatly route the cabling, and I used the X3 to make these holes as my very first CNC job.

Support was excellent - I had a couple of questions, and they were answered on the forums very rapidly.

The other points raised in this thread are all very appropriate - there's a stack of learning to go through once your machine is going! You need to learn some CAD software, some CAM software, probably learn gcode, *THEN* learn all the feeds and speeds for each material you're planning to cut

Cheers,
Andrew
P.S. Cnckits.com.au do do full turnkey machines, but I don't know about shipping outside Australia.