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I hope your new one is better than my new ones. The original gib is machined at the wrong taper, so were the replacement gibs.
Surely do not notch anything until you get then scraped in for your machine.
Richard
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Just received my new gib from grizzly and have a question for the wise ones.
the finish is MUCH better than what came in my mill, but how should I create the two notches for the adjustment screw? Second should the side that faces the column also be scraped?
I ordered two of them so I think I could hold them in my vise (opposing each other) and mill the notches (cnc and small EM and lots of coolant) after measuring/marking location. The only other option I can come up with would be to dremel for ten second at a time and cool to prevent warping.
I'm trying to find someone local to hand scrape them for me and wondering if only the dove tail sliding surface should be scraped or if I should do the face that faces the column too???
I paid $11 each for these but would happily pay $100 to be able to remove the .002+ head nod I have on every z+. no fun saying "yeah I can pocket that if you don't mind a gouge where I retract". Absolutely sucks that no one makes and sells brass scraped gibs for these machines. I need to make parts and don't have time to learn to scrape and would like it done RIGHT.
This is for an x3... but the gibs are more of a general question so I'm asking here ( plus 500% more people are here so I hope for a better sample of answeres
I hope your new one is better than my new ones. The original gib is machined at the wrong taper, so were the replacement gibs.
Surely do not notch anything until you get then scraped in for your machine.
Richard
Rev
SX-3 Mill, 10x22 Lathe, RF-45 Mill, GH-1340 Enco Lathe
Yes only notch them after they are fitted. As far as scraping, the other side doesnt really need scraping, it just needs to be flat so it fits nice and snug.
A dremel with a cut off wheel would be good to set the lenth of the gap. This should not cause much heat and you should be able to fit it to the screw head fairly good. All though yuo could make the gap smaller and use a file to finish fit. To get the depth you about have to grind it out, or cut it with a end mill. I really don tthink you would over heat it, but if grinding use some water/coolant and it should be fine.
The tapper is the hard part to get right. It will need to be fitted to the machine when scraped/sanded or cut and use blueing like you would with a surface plate to make sure it is fitting right.
If you do this right it will be a hugh difference in the machines function. You can use drill rod to lay down in the dovetail and measure to find out what tapper you need. If yuo dont have a big enough measuring tool its not hard to fab one up. You dont really need to know how wide it is, just the difference between the two points. So it could be butted up against something with a indicator on the other side to find the diff. If you go on U-tube you can find some scraping video's that show how to measure the dovetails tapper. They also show fitting the gib with marking fluid.
This guy has a lot of good vids, watch them all it will help you.
MuellerNick's Channel - YouTube
Jess
GOD Bless, and prayers for all.
hmmmm... interesting point. I was thinking I should machine it first so the proceeds of scraping/correcting would remove any error I create in the machining processes.
how do u accurately measure the required taper? my brain is drawing a blank.
EDIT- how to measure question answered. thank you.I'll start watching.
Yes watch they will help. And you can machine them first to get them close , it doesnt hurt anything.
And when yuo measure them if yuo dont have something that will reach all the way acroos them its ok. You dont really have to have the full measurement, just the difference from one end to the other. So you could makeshift something to hook over the one side, with your test indictor on the other to read off the drill rod. Infact you can see in his vids he made a setup to do this also.
This guy is good, plus old school and he knows CNC also. Even vids that doesnt apply to your needs should be watched. He is German, but he does a good job of showing whats going on even without talking.
Hey if yuo have a small surface plate you can learn to scrape them from his vids. You can take a old file and grind it down to use as a scraper if you have a way to hone it good so it gets sharp. Or the small hand scraper that places like Grizzly and other tools suppplies are big enough to scrape a gib. You know like the ones that are more for deburing, but yuo can get them with a flat or triangle tipped blade also. Well like this one.
H8083 Scraper - Large
or they have these which are just files reground
T10086 3 Pc. Machinist's Scraper Set
If you dont have a small surface plate one from Grizzly is very cheap and should be something you have around. You can get a 9"x12" for about 22 dollars and it doesnt show any shippping on it ( I am sure there is a little shipping though, but not like the big plates).
Sense you got two gibs yuo could cut one with the mill and then just sand on something flat. This works quite good in a pinch. If you leave the tappered side with a bit of a rough sanding it will hold oil like they do when they are scraped. This doesnt give a good gib like scraping one in but serveral of use on the forum have done it this way with good results. Infact our little X1 had never worked so good when we did one like this. But the better you make one, the better it will work.
The reason no one makes gibs ready to be shipped that fit is every mill has a little different cut to the dovetails so there is no way to make one work for every mill. Even if they did by chance get each one cut with the exact same tapper the width of the gib would be different for each.
Good luck and keep us posted on how it turns out. This seems to be something alot of people struggle with so your thread may help others.
Jess
GOD Bless, and prayers for all.
Thank you Lucky13 for the staggering amount of information in your reply.
You have given me a lot to think about and unfortinately the last five or six attempts I have made at replying to this have been so long that at some point my phone lost it as it always got broken up into multiple sessions of typing.
First off you have inspired-instigated me to attempt to scrape these. I DID get a B.S. quote yesterday from a contractor that does the work for the local "rebuild" and machine "repair" shops. Kind of shocked they don't have someone in house. BUT - he quoted me $150 to power scrape 18 square inches of beltsander finished cast iron. I am not experienced in the area of scraping but can smell that a mile away... especially when the guy that referred me TOLD me he charges $45/hr which means he is just sandbaggin me.
oh well.
So I checked grizzly and the surface plate has the same shipping that my X3 MILL did ($75) so that is out.
McMaster's cost close to $100 just for the plate.
GOOOOOOOGLE found that there is a "WoodCraft" near me that now carries a 9x12x2" "Grade A" plate for only $35! They are holding the only one they actually have for me till i go get it tomorrow. I ordered the 3 piece scraping kit AND the other one you listed (but opted for the small H8082 IIRC).
The high spot i can get locally which only leaves technique....
I understand the basic concepts and from watching the videos I think I can do this with a little practice (fotunately I have two.... if i screw up the first one I will just keep sanding it and starting over till I get it down then move onto the second)
QUESTION: should I change attack angle on every round of scraping to create the "random" marks?
Any thoughts on how well it might work to fit the gib, measure the gap then lap the BACK with more pressure on the "THICK" side then keep checking on the grantite plate until it is even. The problem is I really don't want to play the remove and replace head game over and over and over to blue the inside, re-blue the inside, clean out the inside when done
Just blue the Gib and the high spots will be shinyOriginally Posted by PriddyShiddy
JTCUSTOMS
"It is only when they go wrong that machines remind you how powerful they are."
Clive James
I had thought if trying that but wonder if it would rub half of it off befor it got lined up right our not. worth a try. guess I could try scribing dye too if it does
I just blued the gib strip and scraped the high spots, if the dykem wore off, I would just re-apply, as it takes many rounds of scraping to get decent results , and its easier to see your progression if you re-apply the dykem
JTCUSTOMS
P.S. nice looking parts in that other thread, its good to see people making money at this "hobby" let me know if you cant keep up LOL! I would be more than happy to sub contract for you
"It is only when they go wrong that machines remind you how powerful they are."
Clive James
lol. thanks. after all your help through this whole project it will be the least I could do!
the goal is to get the wife a job, move and buy a tormach AFTER I can get some regular income from MY designs plus the job shop stuff. we will see.
haven't made chips in almost two weeks since I lost access to MC4SW. I'm learning Mastercam X5 but it had been a painful process. hope to fix the Z in the next week, finish the orders I have pending then make my first part... that I designed a year ago now lol
Also get your backside flat before even working on the tappered side. I guess its all alot to take in and learn, but in the end you & your machine will be better off for it.
Jess
GOD Bless, and prayers for all.
why the back side first?
my logic was that the sliding surface NEEDS to be flat so I should do it first then slowly shape the back to a nice fit. again- I'm all guess and no experience here. it seems like the "back"theoretically only needs two points of contact (my goal is many more than that, I'm just making an example) to maintain pressure on gib when changing direction, so I should use that side to adjust the taper since it will almost certainly not end up completely flat when I finally get it adjusted.
this had me thinking I'm an idiot for not trying to just shim the .002" gap I have behind the bottom of my current gib and measure the difference. think I'll try that tonight.
what is the logic behind doing the back first?
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