CNC for home woodworking

[Dean448]

I'm interested in opinions why CNC is not more popular to the home woodworker. I find it incrediably versitile for just about you need. However you go to a bookstore and the 'Woodworking' magazines still only contain manual equipment with tips on how to design jigs to do things better, but done the same way for the last 50 years. Just with glossier color photos.

The risk I take asking this in a CNC forum is that you are biased in favor of this technology. But consider how far from your house the next CNC machine is compaired to the next table or miter saw.

Dean

[louieatienza]

There is a technology gap between the traditional and modern woodworker. There is also sort of an implied "quality" to hand-made versus machine-made. Honestly, although trained as an apprentice cabinetmaker, and learned in hand skills over 18 years ago, with CNC I'd consider myself more of a wood "machinist," and instead of designing, I'm "engineering" furniture...

I feel there is a natural tendancy for us humans to "gawk in awe" the skill and devotion one needs to do work manually, and maybe for some CNC is seen as cheating. I'd refer those people to Gustav Stickley, one of the great furnituremakers of the 20th Century, who at the boom of the industrial revolution used then-new electric power tools to "remove the drudgery of mundane tasks from skilled workers so that they could invest their time more on details..." something like that.

There is also a certain sense of satisfaction and respect one earns by having the skills to do things manually, and well. Consider even the home-made CNC builds here; much attention and praise is given to those who use their knowledge and ingenuity to make their machines.

To me, I find that I can now offer the same, or better, kind of product, faster, and for more profit. Also, as Stickley points out, I can concentrate more on details and finishing, rather than mindless hogging away of materials.

For the typical weekend warrior, the actual building of a machine is a project unto itself, that can leade to pride and accomplishment upon completion and first movements. There is also a feeling of self-sufficiency: no longer does one need to "farm out" complex pieces.

I think the main things holding people back are cost, space, and learning curve. One can build a machine relatively cheap if they want, but then there's the cost of software, electronics, bits. There is a difference between pushing a router and having a machine do it. But knowing how tools work manually can surely aid in how they are machined. Space is another issue. One always thinks they'll get by with a small machine, and eventually wants something bigger, faster, and stronger! Indeed, the first machine can make parts for the second (which is what I did) and so forth.

So yes, I am biased toward CNC technology, but I use it as a way to concentrate on the finer details that matter a lot to people. For example, I can profile a guitar body AND route binding edges at the same time, but I STILL have to apply the binding (and purfling sometimes) by hand, and the less time I spend routing, the more time I spend making that binding as perfect as I can...

[ger21]

A lot of woodworkers don't see CNC as just another tool, but something that "cheapens" their work. These people think that anyone can throw some wood on a machine, push a button and a masterpiece will automatically appear. They really have no clue about the process at all.
I've had this discussion several times with people on woodworking forums, and some of them want no part of CNC.

However you go to a bookstore and the 'Woodworking' magazines still only contain manual equipment with tips on how to design jigs to do things better, but done the same way for the last 50 years.

In a lot of cases, jigs can't be replaced by CNC. A dedicated jig can do a lot of jobs much easier and faster than a CNC.

As I said at the start, CNC is just a tool. You need to use the right tool for the job, and a CNC may not always be the right tool.

One huge factor in the lack of CNC in home shops is cost. In my garage, I have a Delta Unisaw that I bought about 15 years ago. If you go to a woodworking forum, my guess is that less than 5-10% of the members have a similar saw. Most can't justify the cost, and go for something that costs about half what mine did, or even less. Yet most of the decent sized homebuilt machines you see here cost upwards of $3000, once software is added in. A lot of home woodworkers just can't justify the expense.

Come up with a quality machine bigger than a Shark, and sell it for less than $1000, and a lot more people will have CNC's in their garages.

[cheetahcnc]

Yeah, where are all the Onsrud pin routers that were so popular in the late 80's. I guess most of the woodworkers wouldn't know what to do with all the space found when disposing of their amassed lot of templates, many of which were made on someone elses CNC.

Jim

[Dean448]

All valid points. I suspect that there is a class of true woodworker who still uses a hand plane, hand chisle, cabinet scraper, scratch awl ect... and take pride in something totally made by hand. I got it.

However how many woodworkers use and table saws, planers, joiners mortising cutters, hand held cabinet mounted and pin routers? This is all a natrual progression of using the available technology to make the job more accurate and efficient. I just have to believe CNC is part of that trend.

Gerry I wonder how many of those woodworkers who wouldn't touch CNC are in their 60's thru 80's who arn't going to get involved with one more thing that requires a computer to operate. They just arn't interested in messing with a computer when building something out of wood. I got that as well.

But what about younger folks? Is anyone young getting into woodworking? What say you?

Dean

[Action-KAT]

Well myself I'm happy to get a chisel or cabinet scraper out.
As a maker of Traditional Rocking Horses in my spare time.
There is a sense of achievement having done it all by hand,

But in my day job I'm a sign-maker & I am just as happy to embrace technology as I am traditional methods.

I have nearly finished my CNC & it was made to speed up monotonous tasks & open new avenues of woodwork.
Old and new side by side as it should be

[louieatienza]

I have to say, from experience, that the knowledge one gets learning how to use hand tools becomes beneficial when working power tools. Wood is not like aluminum, and shouldn't be treaated as such when cut!

I wish more people would experience what it feels like to take a very finely tuned bench plane, and take a ribbon-thin shaving off the edge of a board, and feel how silky smooth and shimmery the surface of the wood is. You cannot achieve this with any power sander, or CNC router.

I feel that there can be a place for both hand tools and CNC in a home workshop. 10 years ago I never dreamed I'd afford a CNC, let alone have the resources available to build my own. Who knows what the next 10 years holds? Look at these rep-rap and maker-bots; the day will come when we need a part for something, and the company will send the file for the replacement part that we just "print" at home...

Speaking of Onsrud, it's kind of cool that they still sell pin routers, has to look odd next to one of their behemoth 5-axis routers with the 40HP spindles!

[zool]

In answering the original question, think about this: Instead of saying "CNC machine" say "A, potentially, multi-function multi-axis machine built to be driven, from both a design of the item to be produced and a mechanical perspective; and controlled by three types of software and two computers, one computer for the computer-aided design software, and one for the g-code converter and the post-processor; which post-processor then sends low-voltage step-and-direction electronic signals via complex and sophisticated electronic devices; to stepper-motors or servo motors, whose capabilities are measures in holding power rather than driving power, both of which provide feedback to the post-processor which electronically measures, or makes assumptions about, the progress of the machining operation; which electronic signals interpreted by said motors then drive a machining head which is supported and constrained by a choice of several different types of rails and carriages; and which carriages are provided motion by one of several different types of motion transfer mechanics; all of which represents and reproduces the manifoldly complex neurological and cognitive processes, via memory and problem solving; which then drive the human body in both gross and fine muscular-skeletal motions; each process, machine and human, which then results in the producing of a part for a larger assembly."

Also: I reveal in the uses of my Lie-Nielson Model 60-1/2 Low Angle Adjustable Mouth Block Plane; as well as the look of it, both from an engineering and aesthetic view-point; the feel of it in my hand; the sound it makes smoothing wood; and the thin shaving that rolls out of it.

Is it not a glorious time to be working wood!

[louieatienza]

Well myself I'm happy to get a chisel or cabinet scraper out.
As a maker of Traditional Rocking Horses in my spare time.
There is a sense of achievement having done it all by hand,

Written like a pseudo-haiku!

There is a lot to be said about the use of a finely tuned cabinet scraper. You get a surface impossible to achieve with sandpaper, and less dust and noise as well! If only I could mount one to my CNC... ;-}

[zool]

Louie:

I just had a flash...

What about a head with a scraper for a CNC with pressure sensing devices, that would be controlled by laser measuring ...

The mind reels!!

[Al_The_Man]

In my younger years I worked alongside many skilled tradesmen who's art and skill have virtually vanished in some areas, generally because of either modern materials or automation has taken over and reduced or eliminated the need of their craft.
Is this sad?
Yes in a way, but what automation and mass production has done has allowed many of the products to become in reach of everyone and not just the privileged few, (together with evolution )
Having said that, I do agree in there is a certain satisfaction of creating something at the basic level with hand tools, which should be a pre-requisite for all budding craftsmen, whether aiming at a career in CNC or not.
Al.

[louieatienza]

Louie:

I just had a flash...

What about a head with a scraper for a CNC with pressure sensing devices, that would be controlled by laser measuring ...

The mind reels!!

Hehehe maybe, but then you'd need a a high resolution camera and software to detect surface finish!

I will say, that I made a guitar body with a quilt maple top, and normally this means tearout like crazy in my surface planer. I ran a surfacing program on the CNC, and absolutely no chipout! If I had to do this with a low angle jack plane and scrapers, it would take a long time, and there's always the risk of chipout. With a large diameter straight bit spinning parallel to the surface, not a chance! (I wetted the top with xylene to show the grain...)