Tig Process ??

[millman52]

I am interested in purchasing what I need to do TIG I have welded with stick & MIG for years. I have several different power sources. Linde CV/DC MIG, Hobart electric motor driven generator DC/MIG, Lincoln DC600 Multiprocess AC/DC MIG/Stick/TIG, Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DC.

What TIG welding I need to do is minimal but would be really handy at times for it's neatness & better control. I just don't know what I need for a basic entry level TIG. Even though the DC600 Lincoln says "TIG" right on it I really don't think it has the high frequency built in.

Help Please....

[massajamesb]

well, are you going to be welding aluminum or anything requiring AC?
How thick is the material you want to weld (maximum you run through?)
Do you have single or three phase power available?
What is your budget?

for a switchable entry level Tig, look at the Miller Econotig, that was the first Tig I started with.
Above that, I like the Syncrowave 200 or 250.

I also like the features found on the HTP upper line of Tigs,
http://www.htpweld.com/products/tig_welders/tig201.html

[millman52]

Budget isn't really such a problem. I just really don't want another machine that will sit 99% of the time collecting dust.

I'd much rather adapt something I already have if possible. As I already have (7) welding machines all of them industrial quality & 100% duty cycle. Other than the 2 Idealarc 250. & they are 60%

I have rotary converted 3 phase I am running my other MIG machines on.

I will want Al. capability, but most will be steel

[Chris64]

I also learned on an Econotig. I ended up buying a Lincoln TIG175pro. It's the Lincoln version (same price). I'd heard better things but it came with fewer accessories.

for what it's worth; The Econotig was a rental, and I had to wait a couple weeks to get it because it was being serviced. The Lincoln has been flawless. I usually weld alum but it welds everything great. Alum takes some getting used to. I don't know how thick it can weld but it has no problem at all with about 50% power welding 1/4" alum with good penetration.

It's really fun to TIG steel...it's so quiet and the control is so nice. There's nothing fun about alum except when all the planets line-up and your welds look nice.

[massajamesb]

It's really fun to TIG steel...it's so quiet and the control is so nice. There's nothing fun about alum except when all the planets line-up and your welds look nice.[/QUOTE]


Amen, brother.
Aluminum is very tough to learn when there is no one around you that can teach you. Once you get it down, however, life is good.
When I originally learned how to weld aluminum with oxyacetylene, and only because I had to, I should have put a gun barrel in my mouth. That is not how I would recommend learning alum welding to anyone. I would only recommend it as a form of torture in extreme situations in a third world country. I am sure some will pop their heads up and say that "alum welding with a torch is easy",
If you think this way, you are better than me. Pure and simple. I would rather be impaled upon a rusty spoon than gas weld aluminum again.

Anyway,

Neil,
I have heard it is possible to convert a stick welder to Tig, but I am not too sure about it, moreover I am a little ignorant on the subject. I would try Google for such a task.

I would suggest doing what Chris ^^^ did, and rent a Tig that is ACDC switchable, and give it a shot. Then you are only out a couple bucks for the experiance, and you can try welding anything you want.

Be prepared to electrocute yourself (if you are as hard headed as me) if you have never Tig'd before. I don't know how many times I have shot sparks between the fillings in my mouth, or just plain knocked myself stupid. I am told by others that these things happen to many people other than myself, but that doesn't make me feel much smarter.
I suppose that I will eventually prove the "Darwinian natural selection theory" to be true, but not yet, anyway.

[tadream]

A DC stick machine can be easily converted to TIG steel and stainless. HF is nice, but you can add a torch that has a manual gas valve and scratch start, and that's all you need. You need AC and HF for aluminum. Any AC machine will be single-phase. You can weld over 100 amps without HF, but it's a pain to start the arc, and forget doing any light work. The Lincoln 175 is probably the best entry-level machine that will do it all, for a little bigger, I'd go with the Miller Sync250. I think Miller machines have better arc characteristics, and even though I have always been Miller partial, the Lincolns seem to be holding up better these days. Miller has also got some small inverter machines out now that will do Aluminum, but I haven't actually welded with one. They are much more expensive, and were mainly built for portability for contractors. Keep in mind also that inverters, when out of warranty are much more prone to failure, and more expensive to repair. Hope some of this helps. As far as shocking yourself with HF, good gloves, not leaning on the worktable, and not sticking the filler right up in the arc are the best ways to retain those fillings!

[Weldtutor]

I'd much rather adapt something I already have if possible.
Other than the 2 Idealarc 250. & they are 60%
I will want Al. capability, but most will be steel

Lincoln Electric, Miller, & others have in the past marketed a unit that has
(a spark gap oscillator to provide)
high frequency, gas & water controls, to allow adapting of a machine such as your Idealarc 250 to TIG welding capability.

I have previously used the Lincoln "HIGH-FREQ" with satisfactory results on both aluminum & steel. You may wish to search for such a unit for your conversion.

You would of course also require the TIG torch, suitable torch cable either water cooled (over approximately 200 amps) or gas cooled, tungsten electrodes, & shielding gas supply with a flowmeter.

The above should meet the "minimum requirements" for joining both aluminum & steel within the range of your power sources amperage & duty cycle.

As some previous replies have suggested, welding aluminum can be very rewarding, but also presents new challenges such as sudden collapse of the base metal due to it's "hot short" characteristic. Remote amperage controls that are foot or hand operated tend to allow better operator control of this difficulty. I don't believe your Idealarc unit has the receptacle for remote amperage control.

Other members recommendations for a machine designed for TIG might be wise to consider.

Quick settings:
Aluminum uses AC with high frequency. ACHF
Steel uses DC straight polarity, high freq. or scratch start. DCSP

[millman52]

Weldtutor, you are right about the idealarc 250 not having anything such as a 5 or 6 pin connector for a remote control of any sort. The DC600 does however If not mistaken it has a 6 pin & a 14 or 17 pin connector plus switches on the front panel for local/remote MIG , submerged arc, Tig, Stick. Then a large switch where the leads hook for DC+, DC-, AC. Pretty much standard for later mod. Lincolns I think.

[tadream]

The HF box is a good suggestion if you can find a used one cheap. (there's one on ebay for $150 right now). However, a new one is nearly $1000. Foot pedals are around $200. An air cooled torch near $100, while a water-cooled is over that, and needs a water source, etc. All of this will give you the ability to TIG off of either of your existing machines, but the DC600 has no AC for Aluminum, and the Idealarc has no remote control capability. The money it would take to get to that point would essentially come up to the price of a smaller TIG machine which includes accessories and has a warranty, etc. I VERY much understand the desire to make what you have work, but it might not be pheasible. You really need to review what you'll be doing with it, as the smaller TIG machines aren't going to be able to do as heavy a weld on Aluminum as the Idealarc with a HF box. Also, as mentioned, if you can get an HF box used, cheap, it might be the better choice. It sounds like you've got a lot of equipment there, so might you possibly be able to sell any of it off to finance buying something else? A DC600 would be a keeper, as it is a very versatile machine and will handle any process EXCEPT aluminum TIG. Also, while it's an old-skool machine, those motor/generator Hobart MIG's have one of the sweetest arcs I've ever seen. There aren't many of those around any more.

[Chris64]

.Be prepared to electrocute yourself (if you are as hard headed as me) if you have never Tig'd before. I don't know how many times I have shot sparks between the fillings in my mouth, or just plain knocked myself stupid. I am told by others that these things happen to many people other than myself, but that doesn't make me feel much smarter.
I suppose that I will eventually prove the "Darwinian natural selection theory" to be true, but not yet, anyway.

Yikes! I've yet to shock myself but I've always used ridiculously huge gloves that look like I could pick french fries straight out of the fryer. I always see these shows like "american chopper" where they tig with bare hands and wondered what would happen if they fed the filler into the arc...now I know. I was considering ditching the gloves but I think I'll keep them.

The other benefit is when welding aluminum...everything gets hot...EVERYTHING. Those gloves have burn marks all over them...what would my skin look like?

One thing I really want is a trigger control for current rather than foot. About half the time I feel like I'm performing some form of Yoga trying to reach everything at once. Anyone had any experience with these?

[DSL PWR]

The trigger control is the way to go!! Mine has a coged track that controls the juice. The only time I prefer the foot control is at the work bench.

[Weldtutor]

One thing I really want is a trigger control for current rather than foot. Anyone had any experience with these?

The torch mounted, hand amperage control works well for applications where the foot pedal is not convenient, such as standing on a ladder or work stage.
Your thumb is normally used to move the amperage control while holding the torch, & can be awkward in some angles & positions.

For bench work, especially while seated, a foot operated remote control would be preferred by most operators.

I once TIG welded stainless steel with the right foot on an amperage contol, left foot operating a welding positioner to rotate the work, one hand holding the torch & the other hand manuliplating the filler rod!
It was "multi-tasking" at it's best.