Looking for pointers on buying a machine

[MiniMe]

Hi all!

I'm looking for a machine which can do a few things... and up until now I have been focusing on Rapid Prototypers/3D printers; but the more I investigate them, the more I feel a CNC machine (probably 4 or 5 axis, maybe even 6) might be a better way to go.

I'd like to create miniatures, like the kind used in wargaming, some boardgames, and some roleplaying games... for those unfamiliar with them, they vary in size from 1/60 to 1/75 scale; typically I am looking at making human and human-like figures, with 1" bases, and standing roughly 3/4 to 1 1/2" in height.

I would like the material to be sturdy, possibly metal but a good solid plastic could work too... paintable is nice as well, as painting these miniatures is a huge hobby for a lot of people!

I plan on having various 3D models I make and friends of mine make translated into these miniatures... some size leeway would be great, since sometimes I would like to do larger scale stuff (say 1:6 or so, where is reaches 12-18" in height).

At all sizes, I would like a smooth finish without "stair-stepping", and enough detail so that a 3/4" high human figure has a face (and facial expression) that is recognizable. Something in the order of a dozen microns or so (.0004" to .0005") I think is fine enough detail! And maybe even less detail would be acceptable; I am not 100% certain on that...

In any event, I would like some suggestions on machines that can handle this; what they cost up front, what the normal operational cost is, how long it would take to produce a 1" high figure (I'm assuming metal or ABS plastic, open to other suggestions though), and any other info anybody would like to share!

I'm not necessarily expecting anyone to do any research for me; if you know any of the answers off-hand, I would love the info; otherwise just being pointed in the right direction to do my own research is adequate for me!

Thanks all!

[wsa34]

Hello

I have listed a Charly Robot($7500) which can be set up with a 4th axis as an option.
I did a ton of research before I bought it and compared it to many other Mini machines. It has a larger work area and works incredibly well. I used it to make precision detailed pharmaceutical packaging molds. I ended up making so much money with it that I bought 140k dollar Datron machine which has an even larger work area. A part like yours could be easily done and if I had to guess I would say the run time would be about an hour. The bigger question is what is your budget? I don’t know the end cost of a figurine but I am sure it is not thousands of dollars so it might be hard to justify a machine. If I were going to make your part the best way I can think of (most cost effective) would be to 3d scan your original sculpture and CNC machine it one side then the other to avoid the cost and complexity of a 4th axis machine. How were you thinking of creating the computer model so you can even cut a part?
There are a million other ways to replicate parts so if you can give me an idea of really what you’re thinking I could give you some better direction.
Best of Luck
William

[wsa34]

Check out Maker Bot....

Cost is only$750 and would make a part like your talking about out of ABS.

[MiniMe]

The models will be made in a special 3D software package, it will be custom designed software just to create these things, but in the end files can be in any standard 3D format needed. As to budget, I would prefer to keep it lower of course, but 6 figures for the machine is not unattainable...

This is a business venture I am looking into starting with some investors; taking custom orders as well as mass reselling the miniatures (hopefully) at a small profit.

My market research thus far shows I can afford a materials/operation/maintenance + labor costs of no more than ~ $7.00 per part (under $6.00 would be best); this is not including the amortized purchase price of the software + machine... those are separate expenses.

The end result should be figures like these; (and yes, these are all roughly 1" to 1 1/2" in height)











And just to show what some people with a lot of spare time do with paint and tiny little paintbrushes...

[ger21]

Why do you need to write your own software with so many 3D modeling packages already available, that are more than capable of modeling those?

[MiniMe]

Why do you need to write your own software with so many 3D modeling packages already available, that are more than capable of modeling those?

Well, multiple reasons... In short, ease of use.

I want to allow the casual miniature wargamer or roleplayer, etc. to design their own figure; people who may know nothing about 3D design... so the software will have them pick and choose from pre-existing base models and play with a ton of options to create their final 3D model.

[universalfab]

Get yourself a EDM, that's the way to go for what your doing. Precison and intricate details EDM is way sweet, but very costly to run. Definately use cad/cam software you'll save yourself a full head of hair and a attempted suicide.

[Fegenbush]

I am going to buck the trend here and say rapid prototype is the way to go. Everyone else that I know makes items like these has them investment cast from pewter/whitemetal. You could make the CAD model, make the rapid prototype from a material that will readily melt, such as wax, or one that will not. If not, you can make a rubber mold (negative), then a wax positive from that mold. Cover the positive from the RP machine or the secondary step in several layers of sand and ceramic base, fire in a kiln to melt the positive and cure the ceramic, and make your pour. It is also possible to join several positives on a tree and cast them all at once.

Maybe I'm just crazy.

Fegenbush

[MiniMe]

Get yourself a EDM, that's the way to go for what your doing. Precison and intricate details EDM is way sweet, but very costly to run. Definately use cad/cam software you'll save yourself a full head of hair and a attempted suicide.

The EDM machines I found on several internet searches don't seem to be up to what I need... while they seem very precise and fast, they are all 1-axis or limited 3-axis machines - a fully 3D model seems unattainable. I saw a few hybrid EDM machines that might be able to do the job, but the price tags were all astronomical compared to a more typical multi-axis CNC machine.

Am I looking at the wrong machines?

[MiniMe]

I am going to buck the trend here and say rapid prototype is the way to go. Everyone else that I know makes items like these has them investment cast from pewter/whitemetal. You could make the CAD model, make the rapid prototype from a material that will readily melt, such as wax, or one that will not. If not, you can make a rubber mold (negative), then a wax positive from that mold. Cover the positive from the RP machine or the secondary step in several layers of sand and ceramic base, fire in a kiln to melt the positive and cure the ceramic, and make your pour. It is also possible to join several positives on a tree and cast them all at once.

Maybe I'm just crazy.

Fegenbush

I had thought about this route, but when you start looking at the added costs of labor, the added time per part, and the extra steps of complexity in the overall process... well, I would much rather have a single machine to create each part start to finish.

I haven't ruled out this option, but it is low on my list at the moment.

Thanks for the advice though!

[wsa34]

Thanks for the additional information.
The short of it is that you need to make one off items for 6 bucks each.
Might be hard with any machine.
Have you looked into an SLA machine which will build it up in resin.

With all of the detail required and undercuts I don't think you will ever get a nice part on a cnc or edm.

Dynacept will make you an SLA from your cad file.

William

[ger21]

I would think that the casting process would be much faster and cheaper, provided you'll be making multiples of each figure.