New To CNC Plasma - Need Thoughts On PlasmaCam Or Shop Sabre

[jkruse715]

Hi, all, thanks for having me on this forum. I'm a total newbie to this whole world of metal cutting and fabrication. I'm excited about it and eager to learn, but I will admit that it's a little intimidating right now. I’m looking at buying either a 4x4 or a 4x8 CNC plasma, mainly for metal art in thinner metal. Everyone on this forum seems like they’re eager to help – so bear with me if I ask what are probably rookie questions…and thanks for the help in advance!

I'm either currently looking at, or have looked at, Torchmate, ArcLight, PlasmaCam, Tactical CNC and EZ Cut. Right now it’s probably down to either PlasmaCam or ShopSabre. Here's what my dilemma with all of these different machines has been. I need to be able to take photos, images from the internet or even design ideas out of my head and convert those into designs that I can cut. I’ve had some stuff cut by a guy who has a PlasmaCam, with the DesignEdge software, and since I’ve looked into them, I know that this is their proprietary software. I have a small shop space and I like the concept fo a water table fro fume control, and PCam doesn't offer those that I've seen.

I've been looking on CNC Zone and everything I've been reading says that DesignEdge software is the easiest, best and fastest doing this. I know the PlasmaCam system is proven for what I do and need, but I want to make the best possible decision. My question is, does anyone know how the ShopSabre software compares to DesignEdge in terms of ease of use and doing stuff like this? I understand that no matter what system I use, there'll be a learning curve, but the highest and best use of my time will be cutting metal, so I need to know that I can do what I need to do easily and quickly. I won't be cutting oilfield or automotive parts, or HVAC stuff. My biggest need is to be able to convert designs into art easily and quickly, and getting the quality cuts that I need.


Apologies for the long post – but thanks again for the feedback and help.

Similar Threads:

• cnc shop sabre plasma table having problems with autocad dfx files.
• Newbie- SHOP SABRE
• New to Shop Sabre
• shop sabre
• Shop sabre ?

[plasmaMac]

All machines have pluses and minus. Some machines produce great results and others don't. What many people tend to overlook is the process that is involved in taking something from your imagination and actually seeing it come fruition on a piece of metal. This process s something that is usually not advertised on most pieces of CNC equipment because it can be a nightmare for the average Joe.

My machine has served me, and many others, extremely well through the years.

All that I can do is tell you what worked for me. My experience has been nothing short of excellent. But every one is different, so just because I have had nothing but good things to say about my machine, does not mean that my machine would work for your specific requirements. It may or it may not.

Things such as a water table or any other method of dust ventilation are pretty trivial.
.
There are way more important things to consider, first. I can guarantee that an expensive boat anchor will be a useless financial disaster even if it did come with a overpriced “water table” that was included with it.

You can put a downdraft system or water table on any given machine, and for me something as trivial as this is not as important as actually having a machine that will function (and actually produce dust and smoke!). Unfortunately, many of the machines that I have come across (even the better build ones) are just straight up way more complicated than things need to be in order to be effectively cut something simple out.

To this day, I have not found any plasma cutting system that is as intuitive and as user friendly as the plasmacam system and their designedge software.

It is a machine that can be dropped off on your doorstep and ready be to use within hours. On any given day, I could have a ton of different projects that seem like they are all going on at once. So the fact of the mater is, like most people, I just don’t have a whole lot of spare time to deal with things that are more complicated than they need to be.

For me, the plasmacam was exactly what I was looking for. No other machine had anything close to what they offered for the price (totally my opinion). Indeed, I was most impressed with the ability to be able to go from design to finished product without having to spend a huge amount of time screwing around 4 or 5 different software programs. No other machine out there had what plasmacam had in terms of a software program that was as flawless as their designedge.

A few of the other things that Plasmacam offered that were definitely favorable were:

1. Plasmacam’s warranty was 3 years (1 year seemed to be pretty common among the machines out there)

2. Uses Servo motors (I really hope that I don’t start a big pissing match over my love of servo motors over steppers. I apologize if I offend anyone, …lets just say that they give me the extra torque that I need, and corner acceleration …definitely way nicer on intricate parts, not to mention higher rates of cut speeds without missing a step!

3. Support is free (it has become pretty standard for most companies to offer free support and some machines probably require more intensive levels of support that others), And in all honesty, depending on how motivated folks are, after you get the machine going, there really hasn’t been a whole lot of reason’s to call George in tech. I imagine he must be like the Maytag repairman or something!

At the end of the day, here is why, I got a plasmacam:

One software program, The software was straight forward, simple to use

One of my acquaintance years before purchase a an Arclight that runs mach3, sheet cam and hole host of other programs that were required in order to cut anything out (he eventually actually asked me if I would trade him for my Plasmacam!). It could take him 2 hours to cut out a welcome sign that would take me literally a few minutes to cut out. This is due to the effectiveness and ease of use of plasmacam’s fully integrated cad/cam designedge program. Lines of G-code are really not the most inspiring things to have to deal with when something goes wrong because of it (all it take is ONE digit, in order to WASTE a perfectly sheet of material).

Lets face it… g-code is simple to understand… but a complete pain to have to deal with most would prefer to avoid it they had a choice. This was by far the biggest factor that I considered prior to pulling the trigger.

While researching, there were a ton of machines out there we constructed very well and very robust looking….and they were very admirable for the way that they were engineered, however one thing that they all had in common was that for a normal dude, the learning curve can be a problem. I am not saying that you have a genius to run some of these machines. But you definitely have to be motivated to deal with things that are that are not very intuitive to most.

All in all, I needed a machine that would be not only easy to use, but also would get my ideas on to metal as quickly as possible (rather…going from Design to finished product without having to spend a huge amount of time screwing around a gang of different software programs).

I still have not come across a store that I can walk into and actually BUY more time to add to my life. Time for me is extremely important and I imagine it is for most people.

Finding a system that had a proven history of success with other was also important to me. As much as I could, I really tried to find people that were successful with their systems (not matter which brand they had). I wanted to see success and not necessarily failure. I could care less about people’s negative opinions, because more often than not there is always more to the story that one person's version of it.

One person can use a hammer skillfully enough to frame a beautiful house, while another person can use that exact same hammer, less skillfully, and bust their thumb. Which one of these guys would be most likely to blame the hammer for their out come? If you where in the market for a hammer, whose advice would be more relevant? The successful guy or the unsuccessful one?

In addition, there are also a few simple things to cover that were import to find out when one any machine that I looked at. Having a long history of success with a lot of customers really made my decision fairly simple once I got the facts in order.

1. How long have they been in business (Since 1998)
2. Service and support (free, seems to be is the industry standard anything less…may be questionable).
Plasmacam’s service has been excellent for me in fact.
3. Warranty (My machine: 3 years – this is about 3x better than any other machine that I came across. Parts and service for the machine and the SOFTWARE is directly from plasmacam. This was one of the only companies that was responsible for both the machine and Software. One source, one place that takes responsibility for it all! ).

Another machine that I looked at at the time had a 90 day, other warranties where usually one year but only though the people who made the parts an components, which often times would require you to deal with another company that was not the actual company who sold you the machine. Same goes for the software. The software programs where almost never developed by the company that was selling you the machine. When some thing happens that they are not able to solve, whether it is software related or with electronic components (like motors and controls), what do you think happens? Fingers get pointed in all different directions. This is never ideal especially when you need help. Unfortunately, this is extremely common on many products. )

4. Software and ease of use (DesignEDGE…flawless compared to anything else that I had ever experienced for similar applications).

After figuring out how important software was to any CNC operation, I decided that MACH3 and I were not going to be compatible partners. There are a lot of systems that interface Mach 3 with a Torch Height Control. I have never seen this set up work very well on any machine that I was able to actually put my hands on. On top of this I still have also never met anyone who is huge fan of Mach 3.

My pals system used Mach3, sheetcam, combined with a software program called gimp and then also used another one called inkscape. That is 5 different software programs! I only use one program with my machine that allows me to do everything from design work, covert any image to cut out, even trace directly over them on the screen, and cut all with one very simple to use software program (plasmacam’s designedge). One program that I have to deal with to the five that he had to import and export out of in order to cut anything out. For example, I was able to put his name on a sign and have it cut as if I were printing a MS Word document on a piece of paper all while he was sitting inform of me.


This is pretty good way of explaining what I'm talking about:



There was really no way that My pal and his machine (arclight), could come close to being able to do something as simple as this in a time efficient way like you could on my machine (plasmacam). This is mainly due to the software that is involved on each system. Software is a pretty darn important factor on any machine and is something that is extremely important to consider on anything CNC related.

Again, I can't guarantee that what works for me is going to be ideal for you, however I will tell you that my decision to go with one outfit over another was pretty simple based on facts. I find it pretty important to actually find out for yourself. I know that if I would have listened to the opinion of one my friend and took his opinion as the gospel, I’d wouldn’t have even come close to being as happy as I am not with what I have. If you ask ten people their opinions, you’ll get 10 different answers most of the time. I can’t stress this enough: Do the legwork & if you stick to the facts, you’re less likely to get something that you’ll regret later. If you haven't talked to more than one person about their machine, do it. One of these machines is not chump change for most (it wasn't for me anyways).

I wish you luck, Brother!

JAG

[mouce23]

I am curious, I am in the same situation as you, currently comparing different companies, and have the same usage requirements as you describe. Have you made your purchase yet? Was interested to see what you decided and how you liked it.

[coherent]

I bought a 4x8 torchmate in 2008 or so and it worked well. One important factor is getting a good plasma cutter. I put a hypertherm on the torchmate and it cut well, fairly good on consumables and low consumable cost mostly trouble free. One thing I realized over the years was that 99 percent of what we cut could have been cut on a smaller table. That when considering how large the footprint is on a larger table was something I simply didn't know when starting out with a plasma machine. I just recently bought a smaller machine (Fineline Automation Saturn Series) and a new hypertherm 45xp. The new machine is 4 times as rugged and well built as most of the plasma specific tables and leaves open the option of industrial routing or a removable water tray for plasma. Most of the plasma specific machine aren't made to handle the force a spindle and routing puts on the machine. The new machine I got although smaller, weighs 3 times and cost much less including the hypertherm than the original cost of just the torchmate table without the plama cutter 8 years ago. I pass all this on because there are so many options it depends on your use, tools on hand and skills (hobby and art, or industrial daily use), what you expect to cut, if you have any interest in routing wood or plastics as well as plasma cutting and how much you want to build/assemble yourself. Nothing = much higher cost but real outside support (how much and how good varies with each company) and the other end of the spectrum, buying and assembling piecemeal yourself = lots of savings and your are the support, but you'll have a much better understanding of the machine and learn as you go. Or of course other options in the middle somewhere. Personally I've built a number of CNC machines from scratch and have as much fun building as I do using the machine after it's built. Other folks have no interest in doing so and just want to start cutting. One way or another, have fun and good luck!

[plasmaMac]

I have seen a shopmaster model in action, but have not seen sabre's economy model in action yet. The guy I knew that had one spend around 30 grand oh his particular model he claimed.

The biggest issue that I noticed between what he had and a plasmacam system was that his software was (at the time at least) a major pain in the neck to use versus a plasmacam. My biggest concerns where from an ease of use stand point and the comparative price (on the shopmaster). While was not a huge fan the way the software works on a his machine, they did appear to be a well built machine. I was not a fan of the stepper motors that where on his particular machine (I believe he mentioned that a servo upgrade was possible on his machine, though). I am personally a much bigger fan of servo driven systems, especially when it comes to using it for multiple tools (besides plasma). Also, plasmacam's advanced height control operated (in my opinion) more seamlessly and brings a better level of automation where height control is concerned. Again, I haven't seen one of their economy models as of yet, so I am not sure how those compare.

Good software remains one of the most important factors for me on any system, because even a really nicest looking systems are nothing but a really expensive ANCHOR if the software is time consuming or absolutely awful to deal with.

Good luck brother

JAG