Please Help! Looking to buy multiple CNC and Laser Machines.

[rakeshnayak]

Hello,

I am new to cnc and have never operated one in my life. My knowledge on cnc is limited to reading posts here and other places. I am in the process of completing my research work on a new line of business as diversification. I will appreciate if you could provide me your feedback and critique.

Background: We are looking into mass production of wooden sculptures using tropical exotic woods. We are considering Colombia, Costa Rica or Dominican Republic as the manufacturing base.

Sculptures will be 3D, carved from a single cube of wood, no joining what so ever. The size will range from (2.6X2.6X6) inches to (48X48X60) inches - from the size of a coke can to big mannequins. Some models may be built in 2.5D too. Also, we will make some wooden box (similar to jewelry boxes or treasure chest boxes) as the packing box for smaller sizes that can be used as jewelry boxes. Our main focus is on the quality on whatever we deliver, so these sculptures will be made out of best available wood and will be highly detailed. We expect to make 20,000 pieces in the very first year, but majority of them will be of smaller sizes, very few will be bigger than 18X18X27 inches.

Need: Among other things, need multiple machines and laser wood cutters/markers for high run, mass production of these wooden sculptures. Of course, looking for high quality machines that can run 16 hours a day but at a reasonable cost!

Looking for guidance -

• I think, we will need:
  
• 4-axis Multi-spindle (6-10 spindles) - 3 or 4 (for smallar stocks)
  
• 5-axis - 1 or 2 (for larger stocks).
  
• Laser engraver wood - 1 (engraving on the box)
  
• Laser engraver metal - 1 (engraving on brass plate on the box.

Question: How long it takes to carve a Coke can size highly detailed sculpture? I assume we can get at least 4 sculptures from a 24 inch long stick, and also we can have 6-10 spindle on a machine. So may be my question is - how long it takes to carve (2.6X2.6X24) inches of wood. A ball park figure will be good enough to give me an idea on how many machines we need. 14000 of the 20000 pieces will be of two sizes (2.6X2.6X24) and (6X6X12),
Question: How long it takes for a 5-axis machine to carve a 3 ft sculpture? A ball park figure or a range will be good enough.

• We will prefer buying all cnc related equipments from one company for verity of reasons including installation and support. We will require the supplier to send a technician for installation and training. Also we would like to keep enough spare parts to fix it ourselves afterwards. I think most of the suppliers can provide machines with the components based our need,

Question: What are the parts of a cnc and laser machine that breaks often. I need to ask a quote for those additional components as a part of the initial quote.
Question: What are the best quality components to ask for in the RFQ? A few weeks back, I read a wonderful post from a gentleman explaining the best brand for each component, Spindles, Control systems but can't find that post anymore after repeated search.

• We need to get a handle on the cost of the machine including shipping as well as delivery time frame. I am not worried about the custom duty because these will be produced in one of the duty free Export Processing Zones.

Question: How many of these machines can fit in a 40' container? I have to admit I am being lazy here. Every manufacturer mentions the size in Alibaba or 1688, but I hate to divide each number by 25.4. How much it takes to calculate and put the numbers in inches in brackets next to mm, but hey it's their call?
Question: What are the cost of these machines with the highest quality components? A rough estimate or a range will be good enough for planning.
Question: What's an average time for start to finish - RFQ to delivery in US? I may have to add a week or two for other countries.

• I don't want to make it a fish market so need your help on some tried and tested suppliers.

Question: What are the 5-6 suppliers you will recommend for RFQ?

Finally, just wanted to complement what a informative site this is. I am amazed by the fact that so many people take so much time to answer questions from others.

Thanks and sorry for throwing the kitchen sink at you all.

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[RCaffin]

And to produce these you are going chop down or help chop down as many old-growth tropical rainforest trees as you can get hold of?

Forgive my doubts and concerns. The corruption in the South American logging industry is well-known. 'Sustainable' only relates to someone's wallet.

Hum

[rakeshnayak]

No Sir, you are completely wrong. Sorry, but I don't need a lecture from you how to do business ethically. We are an American business, we know it better, just like Australians.

We will use Rain Tree and Wamara which grows in plenty. Please educate yourself and if in doubt, ask question to clarify.
Monkeypod | The Wood Database - Lumber Identification (Hardwoods)
Wamara | The Wood Database - Lumber Identification (Hardwoods)

Just focus on a section called: Sustainability - you will know your answer. A little knowledge and generalization are always dangerous things.

I doubt if you have ever been to any South American Country. I will be there day after tomorrow for the 50th time, at least. I own homes and have family there.

[rakeshnayak]

More Hum..I just verified..

To produce 20000 pieces, we will need 36282 BFT = 3024 CFT = 86 M3. This includes sapwood and bark. 14000 if them will developed using the branches of monkey pod that are used as fuel and grows back within two years. Ironically, someone from Australia offered me the same amount of sandalwood last week. Please refer to CITES Appendices or the IUCN Red List of Threatened Species.

[RCaffin]

Ironically, someone from Australia offered me the same amount of sandalwood last week.

There's a LOT of corruption in the timber industry. See for instance
Dawn timber-laundering raids cast doubt on 'sustainable' Brazilian wood | Environment | The Guardian

So forgive me if I am a bit sensitive about it.

Here in Australia we have recently stopped using our old-growth hardwoods as a cheap or free resource, and switched mainly to plantation pine. Should have happened decades ago, but the pollies were scared by the claimed loss of jobs in the timber-getting industry. And there was a lot of corruption here too.

Cheers

[hanermo]

Your question is generic, and as such my answers are based on best practices.
Also about 300 business cases I/we have looked at.

There is no manufacturer, at the moment, who will do or does suitable machinery.
None.
You referred to cheap, generic, chinese machines, with cheap, generic problems.
Many of the machines components will or may be fine, but none are what you are looking for.

The timescale-to-carve depends on details.
A small detail will change the time-to-make by upto 20 times.
Software used may change the time by upto 5-10 times.

There is no "best" brand.
Some components are better than other, but these are often unaffordable, and usually not what you want.
Ie the best spindle would be what is used in a hermle, mori seiki etc. (20 kW) or NSK for small sizes.
The mori spindle == 20.000 $, 25 kW; NSK = 7000$ (coke can size) 400W.

Note that one is half a horsepower. One is 40 hp. Either may be "right".
It depends.


You need to make a business case out of this.
The investment will be large, several hundred thousand $.
Numbers and details will be critical.
A single detail WILL change the economics more than 2 fold to 5-fold.

Typically, if you actually want to run reliably, 16 hours per day, you will pay about twice for the machine.
So, a 50.000$ machine => ok for 8 hours a day. Haas.
A 100.000 $ machine => 16 hours per day. Mori Seiki, japanese or german machines in general.

Its not at all obvious that you want the more expensive machine. Its complex. Details are critical.

You should expect to pay about 5k for a study to show you what you actually need.

At the moment, you dont even know the right questions to ask.
The right question is NOT brand of machine, until many critical details are done.
This will take about 50 hours work from a professional who has done this before.
You need a time study, among other things.

Many parts of the business case will have wildly divergent answers, depending on multiple issues.

The best/cheapest route will be custom machines, with standard high end components, if you are happy with a custom solution.
This will be 1/4 the cost of other options - but it will be more complex, need more integration, be more custom, and have zero resale value.

Imo, ime, the probability of success is about 5% until you have a study with in-depth info and clearly detailed preferences.

ANY set of machines will work, technically.
But a good choice will lower your costs to produce by over 90%.
Thus your real production costs per piece may be 10$ at low end about 400$ at high end, for example.

It is nearly certain, in my experience, that both the low end and high end will be a loss-making process.
Lots of technical expertise will be needed, at first.
After approx 4-6 months, this will decrease by 99%.
Running it once it works is dead easy.

You can PM me for more details, if you want.

[hanermo]

Further to my last post.
I have imported about 200 machines and shipments, in 5 countries, for 25 years.

The timescales will be 6 weeks to 16 weeks for only shipping alone.
Do not expect to get significantly shorter times.
Customs may take 1-2 months (depends). Or not. Depends, again.

Getting the machines made will take, typically 3-8 months.
Do not expect significantly shorter times.

Typical delivery times on industrial 5-axis machines with NO import issues, and into first world countries, when doing it production-line style, is 6-12 months.
Planning on much shorter is unlikely to lead to good results.

There will be lots of issues in setting up the factory.
Electricity may take 3-6 months.
Electricity may cost 100.000$ or more.
Again, from personal experience.

Based on work I have done or overseen in Mexico, Usa, Tunisia, Spain, Uk, Finland or Sweden.
Plus some extras in santo domingo, france etc.
With 25+ years, mostly positive, experience in dealing with china, taiwan, singapore etc.

[RCaffin]

It's not like buying a packet of CornFlakes, is it?
And things go wrong, go wrong, go wrong ...

One of my staff once told me a story from her father, who imported large manufacturing machines into Australia.
This very big ($0.5M?) machine was coming by boat to Sydney. It would arrive in Sydney Harbour and be unloaded to a big low-loader.
He rang to enquire where it was.
"It's in the harbour" he was told.
"Yes, but when will it be delivered?" he asked.
Very sadly, the voice replied "it's IN the harbour."
It had fallen out of the slings while unloading.

Importing is such fun...

Cheers
Roger

[sajurcaju]

I am new to CNC as a hobby, but I have a lot of experience with starting and growing small businesses.
Your plans sound like you want to go from near zero to large scale production in months, using technology that is new to you. This path is fraught with difficulty. A much better choice would be a gradual ramp. Start with one machine and figure out how to do CNC work. Scale slowly. Certainly do business planning for growth, but understand you are almost certain to encounter problems that cause serious setbacks to your plans along the way.

If you count on rapid growth, you shoot yourself in the foot. You must have secondary and tertiary plans for when something goes wrong.
Please don't be discouraged, just invest by doing adequate planning and slower growth up front. You will come out far better and mature your business more rapidly than trying and failing to do it all at once.

Steve

[awerby]

It's hard to say how long it would take to carve a "coke can sized" sculpture. If the sculpture actually resembled a coke can (are you doing pop-art sculpture?), it could happen pretty quickly; say 20 minutes per each. But if this was a piece with a lot of depth and detail, you could be looking at something more like an hour for the roughing pass and 6 hours for the finish pass. The problem is that when you have a lot of tiny moves, which is required for highly-detailed carvings, the machine can't move as fast as if it's doing simpler things.

Basing your plan on using monkey-pod branches seems risky, if you've never tried making sculpture out of them before. You've gotten some good advice about starting slowly and testing things out as you go - I'd second that. Generally branches of trees are chipped up or used for firewood, even of species where the trunks are used for other things. There usually isn't much heartwood in a branch; they're mostly sapwood, which doesn't have the same properties. Monkey-pod might be an exception, but it would be good to confirm that. As for rosewood, it's known for causing allergic sensitization reactions that can be quite severe; building a business around using it might be worth rethinking, aside from the sustainability issues. I don't see how you're going to come up with 48" x 48" x 60" blanks of either material without any joining and lamination.

Have you given any thought to the design of these sculptures? It's not always a great idea to carve everything from a single piece; the strength of a protrusion is a lot less across the grain than along it. It's a lot more efficient to cut pieces nearer to the net shape, and assemble them with some attention to grain direction. Apart from strength issues, it takes a lot of time to waste all that wood...

Andrew Werby
ComputerSculpture.com ? Home Page for Discount Hardware & Software

[hanermo]

I will refute post #9 -
It is NOT a good idea to scale up slowly - where your business can only work proftably with industrial-level sales.

This will drive up your costs, and the overall investment will be a lot bigger.
Also, the timeframe to cashflow profitability will be very much longer, think 2-3 years instead of 6-9 months, till positive cashflow.
It will reduce risks of technical problems - wich will be the least of your problems.

(Note that an industrial setup will have 20-50-150.000/month cash burn (depending), so a 2 year delay costs an extra 500.000$ - 2 million (or more).
- Yes it does.)
The tactic posted is only useful for those who are cash-constrained and cannot afford to do this properly, and dont have a need for real-world-scale minimums.

For example, per-unit shipping costs only go down with full containers, that need logistics at both ends.
Thus, you cannot have a small-and-cheap industrial setup, as small-and-cheap cannot make/manufacture/pack/unpack/load/store/sell container-levels of goods efficiently and profitably.

Like I suggested, You need a business case.
Ideally, done with someone who has both done this, with real investments, and has an idea about the technology, and has Your interests at heart.
Equipment sales organisations will not fulfill the last criteria.

Many/most will happily sell you something that has no chance, even mathematically, of turning a profit.

In approx 200 cases I looked at, several (10+? or so) were non-starters and we no-bid them, after explaining to the client why it would not work, profitably.

One was technically constrained (we could not do it well enough and declined to bid).

Two were technically constrained due to app (client wanted something that would not work, in our experienced. Declined to bid).
(1. Long boring to high accuracy. 2. Right angle tooling heads in high production.)

One was technically/commercially constrained (we recommended Mori Seiki because it was the right choice, for them, for their use.).

See how there are 5 different situations all depending on different factors ?
My point is that Details Matter in this stuff.

[sajurcaju]

Details definitely matter, but you are only looking at the ones that favor crazy growth as a requirement. Just the single idea "timeframe to cashflow profitability .... of 6-9 months, till positive cashflow" tells the whole story.
Good luck, you will need plenty.

Steve

[rakeshnayak]

All,

Thank you for all the feedback and I apologize for creating a false impression on my background. I truly appreciate people raising genuine concerns on the approach because of the incomplete information I provided. If you allow me, I will try once more. Sorry, this will be a long one.

I ran two companies for the last 21 years (till end of July, 2015). Now, I have a semi-retired job (Chairman of the Board) that doesn't require 75 hours per week anymore. Relatively young and a workaholic, I have a lot of free time now. So this new endeavor is not to make money but to create something out of nothing, my love for woods and help create some jobs and keep me busy. I won't call it a hobby though because I want to run it like my last two previous businesses but on a lot smaller scale.

It’s true that I am new to cnc but that's just me. This is where I screwed up, should have clarified. I have a team of 12 people working on this for the last 10 months or so - from Zbrush designers to media campaign manager. Seven of the designs are already submitted to PTO for trademark registration after going through intensive stress testing on a rented machine. I heard that they were tested in an assembled machine that ran like a champ. We were supposed to start production in December but it's now delayed. The initial plan was to outsource the entire production to another company and we signed the contract earlier this year. We went ahead and completed all other tasks on time till we hit this wall. In early August, we decided to back out of the contract due to irreconcilable differences related to the source of the wood and fair wages. We made a decision to manufacture ourselves in mid-august and I assigned a team of engineers to plan everything out. I should get my detailed report by end of September. I found cnczone sometime in early August, I read a lot and learned a lot and thought to ask a few questions to educate myself while I wait for guys to come back to me - you can call it impatience on my part.

No one that I know in their right mind can throw a few millions at a business not knowing any details of the process and expecting to get all answers solely from a forum that he didn’t know existed a month earlier.

For full disclosure a little more information on my two companies.

Company 1: Founded in 1995, has over 2100 people in 7 countries including China. We started as a scientific software product company (software for high end medical devices e.g. MRI) and gradually expanded to other things. For the last 5 years, we are focused on developing machine learning algorithm based products and solutions e.g. driverless car. We have 370+ engineers – mechanical, electrical, electronics, industrial, fluid dynamics, instrumentation - you name any. We have 2 robotic labs and 150+ patents. I am an engineer by trade (but the dumbest one among all who always wants to poke his nose in everything). After looking at a few available CAM software, we decided to write our own G code and control the tool path based on machine learning. I was quite hesitant at first, but they sold me eventually. After all, they can write code to make a Robert to do their laundry. But I will be open to look into other software if it’s not ready for by Dec. That’s why I didn’t ask any question on software in my earlier post.

Company 2: Founded in 2003, we do strategic import and export for a dozen developing/emerging nations. Our specialty is seasonal food grains and other farming products. It’s highly specialized, so let me give you a real example to explain. Two years back, due to bad weather, the price of onion went up almost 400% in a country creating price gauging and a big uproar. Within two weeks, we sourced 180 tons of onions from 4 different countries. We ended up suppling 550+ tons of onion in 3 months till the prices went down. It works other way too. Sometimes, government agencies hire us to liquidate surplus farm products to keep prices from falling that can hurt farmers. The only difference between matchmaker/middleman and us is that we buy the product and sell it (and sometimes lose our shirt!) Many cases, we get paid the differential in case of a price control, also all most always get a tariff waiver. This is a high risk, very expensive business but we have created our small little niche. We have our own negotiated terms and rates with leading shipping companies, clearing houses, stevedoring companies, port labor unions etc. Of course, we know a few people in customs of some countries.

Below are a few points that may give us a slight advantage over others when it comes to importing from China.

1. We can pay 100% advance to a Chinese company to expedite and have someone from my China team monitor the progress. We do have access to the legal system in China in case of a conflict.
2. We can have a couple of our engineers get trained in their factory and train other staff afterwards.
3. We build Roberts for living, should be able to troubleshoot/reverse engineer a cnc machine.
4. We can modify the software because we will own the source code.
5. I used to visit China three to five times a year. I can make a few more trips before making a decision on a company.
6. Importing is not fun for sure, but our fulfillment team now has 12 years of lessons learned working with various counties’ customs directly or through agents. We have account manager assigned to us by a few shipping companies.
7. I reached out to my contacts with specifications for manufacturing space in EPZ in early August. Next week, I am going there to see 9-10 options based on my need in 3 countries. I am not sure if any of you visited one of these EPZs, but you need to see it to believe. These are well thought out modular units with everything ever you want, spread over thousands of acres. They can accommodate 3M as well as xyz herbal beauty cream.

Why am I am curious to know your opinion when I have figured out everything?
1. Because, there is no substitute for experience. No matter how much planning I do, who I know, how many Einsteins I have in my team, I know for a fact that we will face a million issues during the implementation.
2. When we work on a field for years, we develop a dream product/software/anything that we always wish to have but don’t. I wanted to steal that experience from you. I am almost sure I cannot afford it either, but it’s always good to know.

Have I made up my mind on Chinese machines?
1. Of course not, otherwise I would have just asked my folks to give me top 5 in Jinan and be done by now.
2. I want to use my resources (shipping, engineers etc) as much as possible and not pay something we can do. Also, I don’t want to pay for something just because it’s a part of the bundle of some sort.
3. Quality doesn’t come cheap, I want pay the right market price for right quality, doesn’t matter where it comes from? High quality doesn’t mean it must cost 6 times either.
4. Supplier needs to understand that they are selling to a hi-tech engineering firm.

What I request from you: Please share your machine selection experience. If you have to redo it all over again, what will you do, how will you do?

Thank you for your time.

I received some great comments and questions that I will respond as soon as I get a chance later today. If I don't leave now, I will make my "Real Boss" very unhappy!

[awerby]

It's good to hear you've had some business experience, and aren't going into this totally blind. But the businesses you've been involved with to date are very different from the art business. You've been selling things that people actually need - software, medical supplies, onions or whatever. Selling art is a lot harder. You've been focusing on the problems involved with producing sculpture on a large scale, but that's not actually the most difficult part. Have you thought about what you're going to do with all these things once you've managed to make them? Typically art galleries don't purchase art; they might take some on consignment, but they're very picky about what they take. Were you planning to establish your own distribution outlets, or are you expecting to find wholesale buyers? That's not as easy as you might think.

Andrew Werby
Juxtamorph.com

[rakeshnayak]

There's a LOT of corruption in the timber industry. See for instance
Dawn timber-laundering raids cast doubt on 'sustainable' Brazilian wood | Environment | The Guardian

So forgive me if I am a bit sensitive about it.

Here in Australia we have recently stopped using our old-growth hardwoods as a cheap or free resource, and switched mainly to plantation pine. Should have happened decades ago, but the pollies were scared by the claimed loss of jobs in the timber-getting industry. And there was a lot of corruption here too.

Cheers

No need to apologize, I know exactly where you are coming from. In fact, I feel bad for my comments earlier. I am sorry. I developed a lot of respect for you.

Let me tell you the story behind this project, that may make you happy.

Part 1: It all started in one afternoon in 2013 when I was having lunch with a local politician in a south american country. I watched a municipality truck came and cut down a few large branches of a Rain tree and left them on the busy street covering almost half of the street creating a instant traffic jam. Then to my horror, I saw people crossing the street with big branch of tree on their shoulder right through the lanes with traffic in full flow. This entire process continued for 2 or so hours and at the end the street was left with leaves, branches that no one wanted and other mess. I asked him if he knew Rain tree wood is considered as exotic in some parts of the world, he calmly replied, they are a pain in neck. Rain tree grows too fast and creates too much problems for overhead power lines. The municipality cannot afford wood chippers and people need these for firewood, so we leave them on the street them to pick up ..

Part 2: During my next visit in 2013, I made him a proposal - we will provide free service to pick the tree waste, keep the pieces that can be reused, chip the rest and provide them back to the city in bags that they can distribute free in low income areas. I still remember the smile on his face.

Part 3: 2014: After 2 weeks of number crunching, the math just didn't add up. Investment and maintenance on trucks, uncertainty on supply, barely 25% usable woods at best, cost of bagging etc etc. But it made perfect sense when I decided 7 trucks will be a donation to the city, and the wood will just cost 4 times than the market rate. So be it. Each year 20% of the company will be given back to the employees, at the end of 5th year it will be a employee owned local export oriented company.

Part 4: Fast forward to 2015: The person is no longer in power and the new person in charge is not interested anymore. In fact, he thinks I owe him a lot of money. Well, it will continue, if not there somewhere else for sure.

[rakeshnayak]

It's good to hear you've had some business experience, and aren't going into this totally blind. But the businesses you've been involved with to date are very different from the art business. You've been selling things that people actually need - software, medical supplies, onions or whatever. Selling art is a lot harder. You've been focusing on the problems involved with producing sculpture on a large scale, but that's not actually the most difficult part. Have you thought about what you're going to do with all these things once you've managed to make them? Typically art galleries don't purchase art; they might take some on consignment, but they're very picky about what they take. Were you planning to establish your own distribution outlets, or are you expecting to find wholesale buyers? That's not as easy as you might think.

Andrew Werby
Juxtamorph.com

Thanks for the comment. I will make two comments that should make it clear.

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks for the comment. I will make two comments that should make it clear.

1. The combined revenue of my two companies were over 310 Million USD for the year 2014.
2. For this venture, we have a sales and marketing budget of 1.38 Million USD for the first year.

[rakeshnayak]

Details definitely matter, but you are only looking at the ones that favor crazy growth as a requirement. Just the single idea "timeframe to cashflow profitability .... of 6-9 months, till positive cashflow" tells the whole story.
Good luck, you will need plenty.

Steve

Steve, I understand your point. But I don't have that much time and patience to be honest. Also, If I will lose all my investment in this project, I will still pay my bills on time.

[rakeshnayak]

I will refute post #9 -
It is NOT a good idea to scale up slowly - where your business can only work proftably with industrial-level sales.

This will drive up your costs, and the overall investment will be a lot bigger.
Also, the timeframe to cashflow profitability will be very much longer, think 2-3 years instead of 6-9 months, till positive cashflow.
It will reduce risks of technical problems - wich will be the least of your problems.

(Note that an industrial setup will have 20-50-150.000/month cash burn (depending), so a 2 year delay costs an extra 500.000$ - 2 million (or more).
- Yes it does.)
The tactic posted is only useful for those who are cash-constrained and cannot afford to do this properly, and dont have a need for real-world-scale minimums.

For example, per-unit shipping costs only go down with full containers, that need logistics at both ends.
Thus, you cannot have a small-and-cheap industrial setup, as small-and-cheap cannot make/manufacture/pack/unpack/load/store/sell container-levels of goods efficiently and profitably.

Like I suggested, You need a business case.
Ideally, done with someone who has both done this, with real investments, and has an idea about the technology, and has Your interests at heart.
Equipment sales organisations will not fulfill the last criteria.

Many/most will happily sell you something that has no chance, even mathematically, of turning a profit.

In approx 200 cases I looked at, several (10+? or so) were non-starters and we no-bid them, after explaining to the client why it would not work, profitably.

One was technically constrained (we could not do it well enough and declined to bid).

Two were technically constrained due to app (client wanted something that would not work, in our experienced. Declined to bid).
(1. Long boring to high accuracy. 2. Right angle tooling heads in high production.)

One was technically/commercially constrained (we recommended Mori Seiki because it was the right choice, for them, for their use.).

See how there are 5 different situations all depending on different factors ?
My point is that Details Matter in this stuff.

I will have to agree 100% with this assessment. Many of the points raised here came into picture when we were doing the viability study.

Thanks.

[rakeshnayak]

It's hard to say how long it would take to carve a "coke can sized" sculpture. If the sculpture actually resembled a coke can (are you doing pop-art sculpture?), it could happen pretty quickly; say 20 minutes per each. But if this was a piece with a lot of depth and detail, you could be looking at something more like an hour for the roughing pass and 6 hours for the finish pass. The problem is that when you have a lot of tiny moves, which is required for highly-detailed carvings, the machine can't move as fast as if it's doing simpler things.

Basing your plan on using monkey-pod branches seems risky, if you've never tried making sculpture out of them before. You've gotten some good advice about starting slowly and testing things out as you go - I'd second that. Generally branches of trees are chipped up or used for firewood, even of species where the trunks are used for other things. There usually isn't much heartwood in a branch; they're mostly sapwood, which doesn't have the same properties. Monkey-pod might be an exception, but it would be good to confirm that. As for rosewood, it's known for causing allergic sensitization reactions that can be quite severe; building a business around using it might be worth rethinking, aside from the sustainability issues. I don't see how you're going to come up with 48" x 48" x 60" blanks of either material without any joining and lamination.

Have you given any thought to the design of these sculptures? It's not always a great idea to carve everything from a single piece; the strength of a protrusion is a lot less across the grain than along it. It's a lot more efficient to cut pieces nearer to the net shape, and assemble them with some attention to grain direction. Apart from strength issues, it takes a lot of time to waste all that wood...

Andrew Werby
ComputerSculpture.com ? Home Page for Discount Hardware & Software

Very good points, you are right on all. thanks.

Single Vs multiple pieces of wood: The value of Asian mythological figures almost doubles when it's carved from a single piece of wood.

Monkey Pod: It took them a couple of months and a dozen of tries to figure that out. I don't remember all the details but Monkey Pod wood needs to be turned while green, fresh cut within a week if possible. It dries too quickly and becomes brittle while turning. I think they told me we need to Klin dry it in two stages - at certain temperature to bring it back to 20% and then some other temperature to make it 10-12%. It cures well with Tung Oil though.

Wamara: Wamara is not a real rosewood. You can call it a knock off at best with very little resemblance to real rose wood. I am not aware of any allergic reaction to Wamara but I need to confirm that. Thanks for the vaulble suggestion.

[hanermo]

All your comments re:business are 100% spot-on and very valuable.

Yet..
I am pretty sure that the right business-path to getting the venture running, is not developing a new cnc controller.
The most experienced guys in this, for example haas, are really smart, and really succesful, with resources.
They have spent 30 years at it, and it still needs (plenty of) work.

My point:
A tiny driver in details, will or may change your costs and times by (potentially) more than 10-fold.
For this to work, you must have these details fixed and demonstrated.

No-one could give you a price quote from the data provided - as there is not enough info.

After you have existing samples (does not matter who/how made them, nor at what cost).
You must define, perfectly, what accuracy and resolution and process you will need to produce these.

Only after the sw and process tree is defined, and *demonstrated to work*, is it worthwhile thinking about the machines.
This is quite difficult, and will need lots of hours.
If you dont do this work beforehand, you will possibly get locked into situations that are not efficient / wont make a profit.


Most sw is not good, for you.
Most machines are not good, for you.
In that bang/buck is critical, for a positive net result in $$.

Chinese machines can work perfectly well ..
but standard machines, almost certainly not.

Its not the quality (or not) of the machine(s), its the cost/reliablility of the work done.