Build Thread- From scratch. Lathe, Mill, or maybe both.

[MrBean]

Hello Guys. It's been a while since I last posted here, but recently I fancied building either a CNC lathe, CNC vertical mill, or maybe both.

I've been reading through some of the threads here in the Mill and Lathe project logs, and I've been amazed and inspired by various members projects, especially S_J_H and Jason3.

This is not my first foray into CNC, I built a moving table style router a few years back, which is pretty nasty looking, but works surprisingly well. Other than that and a few hand tools, I have nothing else to help me on my journey.

I've collected a few bits recently, just general parts when they've come up at good prices. I don't have much in the way of metal to build the actual machine from yet, but I have a friend on the case and it looks like I should be able to get some Aluminium plate of about 30mm thickness in pretty big slabs, like 1000mm square.
Is Aluminium strong/heavy enough for the main body/frame of a lathe or mill?

I'm not sure if the parts I have are more suited for a mill or lathe, also would it be easier to build one if I had the other. I mean If I build the mill first, will that help out much when building the lathe, or would a lathe be more help in building a mill?

Here's a pic of most of the parts I have at present. I think I'm going to start modelling these parts in CAD while I wait for news on some metal stock to build with. I like to CAD stuff and play with ideas before I start cutting anything and make a huge balls-up of something.

I'm guessing I'll be asking for a lot of advice on various stuff, I have some pretty funny ideas about things sometimes.

[The Blight]

With the amount of parts you have, you can build both!

I'm envious!

You could use one pair of the longest rails for the X axis on a mill. Use the shortest of the rails on the left for the Y axis, and the longest of the rails on the left for the Z axis. Use the other pair of the long rails for the Z axis on a lathe with the shorter rails (with 4 trucks) as the X axis.

30mm is quite good if the structure is well made. Did you find all those parts in the UK?

[MrBean]

Most of the parts came from the UK, a few from the US when the exchange rate was better for buying, and a few from Malaysia. I've been picking up parts for 2 or 3 years when I've found bargains. I had more parts, but gave some away to friends that were building machines.

For a lathe, would I be better to have more than 4 trucks for the long axis, (The long axis is called Z on a lathe??). The reason I ask is if I wanted to add a tailstock to support longer parts. Would the tailstock need to ride on those Z rails?

I found that I can download 3D models of some of the rails and carriages that I have, so that should save some time modelling. It's probably going to be a week or so until I hear anything on weather my friend can get me some aluminium, so I have some time to model all these parts.

Really looking forward to getting started on a lathe or mill. I might even live dangerously and build the two together.

[Jason3]

Hi MrBean,

I've found that the most useful tool when building a mill... is a mill! Likewise, a lathe is nice to have when building a lathe - it's a catch 22 situation. Seriously though, a mill is probably more useful in building either, I think.

I use aluminium a lot for mills, and more recently, a little lathe. I like working with it, it machines nicely, doesn't go rusty before you can finish the machine... although having said that I've just started a steel mill Undoubtedly aluminium isn't as rigid as steel, but most guys building machines with steel seem to use plate at 3/4" thick or less. If you can get your hands on that 30mm plate, I wouldn't hesitate to use it - I'd build it into a box section for the machine base and column and use it as is for the saddle and table, it would make a couple of fine machines.

The lathe tailstock doesn't have to ride on the same rails, many industrial machines have separate rails for the tailstock - see pic of the Hurco TM6 lathe below. Using a tailstock can make using gang tooling difficult, it's for this reason I'd like to build a turret for my next lathe project.

Looking forward to seeing the designs!

Best regards,

Jason

[MrBean]

Thanks for that information Jason3, that's encouraging.
I have found some solid steel bar that may make a nice bed for a lathe although it may be a bit on the small side. It's dimensions are 80mm x 40mm x 780mm. I have 2 pieces that size.
Focusing on the lathe for now. I read David gingery's book on building a lathe and there's an interesting bit about the lathe making it's own headstock once you get the Z and X axis built and working. I might give that a go as I don't want to have to buy a headstock assembly and I don't have an existing lathe I can use, so that might be interesting....

I do have my CNC router I can use for some jobs. It's built from Aluminium and MDF, so isn't the best, but if I take slow shallow cuts it cuts Aluminium pretty good.

Is it worth investing in a surface plate? I was looking at a granite one that is 600mm x 450mm x 100mm. Seeing as I don't mind putting some manual work in and I don't have a decent mill or surface grinder, I thought it might be a good investment. This is the one I was looking at: http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-A...late-20297.htm

Attached are some pics of an Aluminium skid I made for my RC heli on my CNC router. It came out ok.

[MrBean]

I started modelling some of the parts I've collected. There's a fair way to go with these still and I think for the rest of the parts I'm going to do more basic models. I don't think I really need to model every thread and screw, so long as the general size and dimensions are right.

I'm determined not to be one of those build it in CAD guy's and never actually get around to building the real thing, but I think having a model to poke around with will be a big help for me.

I still need to make up a list of lengths and travels for the ball screws and rails and decide what parts to use for each machine.

Here's a few pics of some of the modelled parts.

[Oldmanandhistoy]

Hi Mr Bean nice to see you back,

That face plate would be a very good investment imo and very useful if your machine building.

May I ask why you want to build rather than buy and what kind of work you would like out of these machines? What I would do and in fact am doing as we speak is reworking an old machine (Harrison mill) cheap as chips and a quality foundation for a home built CNC. If I were to build from scratch I would go with Hot rolled steel tubes filled with epoxy granite. Hot rolled steel for its superior stiffness compared to aluminium or even cast iron and its stability compared to cold rolled. Epoxy granite for its dampening characteristics which is 10 x better than cast iron.

Do you want to do all the building work yourself without farming some out elsewhere as you don't have a mill or lathe? Will you be buying a pre built spindle/head stock (X2 head) or similar?

Enough questions for now I think,

John

[hesham morsy]

Hi Mr Bean the Lathe u have design several yeares ago is my INSPIRATION for diy Lathe project

what is the type cad program u ar useing

[MrBean]

Originally Posted by Oldmanandhistoy Hi Mr Bean nice to see you back, That face plate would be a very good investment imo and very useful if your machine building. May I ask why you want to build rather than buy and what kind of work you would like out of these machines? Do you want to do all the building work yourself without farming some out elsewhere as you don't have a mill or lathe? Will you be buying a pre built spindle/head stock (X2 head) or similar? Enough questions for now I think, John

Hi John, it's good to be back on CNC zone, it's been a while since I frequented the forum, but I have an itch and it has to be scratched.

Those are some good questions and I have been giving them some thought.

I want to build, not buy. For me the thrill is in the building, satisfaction and knowledge gained in so doing. I have no use for a lathe or mill to be honest, I'm sure I will find use for them here and there, but I really have nothing in mind. For me these machines aren't a means to an end, they are an end in themselves.
So that's why I'm not going to buy anything unless I really get stuck.

For those reasons I want to do all the building work and not farm anything out. Obviously I'm not planning to build my own steppers and ball screws etc... but I would like to have a bash at my own headstock/spindle, and only buy if I really can't build something myself. I'm at least going to give everything a go.

I'm going to take your advice and get myself a surface plate. Scraping and testing might be sweaty manual work, but it's the only way I'll have to check for flatness/squareness.
On that subject, should I get some 1 2 3 Blocks, they look like they might be useful?

Can you, or anyone, recommend some metal suppliers in the UK, preferably that will deliver. If my mate doesn't come up with anything I'll have to go shopping, but finding suppliers seems trickier than I thought especially in small quantities.

The epoxy granite sounds cool, I'll have a read up about it, could be interesting.

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Hi Mr Bean the Lathe u have design several yeares ago is my INSPIRATION for diy Lathe project what is the type cad program u ar useing

Jeez that lathe picture is from a while back. I did that model because I knew I would be wanting to build a lathe one day, and used that to visualise some ideas. I had no intention of actually building that exact one. I'm at the mercy of the parts I have and whatever metal stock I can get hold of, so my design will be evolving as I collect more bits.

CAD is from Rhino.

[Jason3]

That's a really nice skid - it must be a decent size Heli

What grade is the steel stock you have? You could use the pieces vertically, and fix the headstock between them, linear rail on each one and Z axis ball screw between...?

1-2-3 blocks: I use mine pretty much daily! I don't have a surface plate, but would be lost without the blocks. I use them for all sorts. Sometimes if I need to machine all sides of a part I tap the back and bolt the block to it, then clamp the block in the vice. I bolt them together for a small, accurate square. Yesterday I used them to support the ends of a long bar held at the centre in the vice. They would be approaching the most used tool in my 'shop, I'd hate to be without them...

Those renderings are from Rhino!? I have a lot to learn... How do you get the nice reflection on the background? Very cool...

Best regards,

Jason

[Oldmanandhistoy]

Interesting answers

I don't buy steel online and the only link I have is this one http://www.metals4u.co.uk/?gclid=CKH...FYoVzAodjWVg5g , this one for aluminium http://www.aluminiumwarehouse.co.uk/ and this one for aluminium profile http://www.aluminium-profile.co.uk/ .


I think this is going to be an interesting thread and will be following along.

John

[veteq]

Nice parts you have over there, now i know why i never win on ebay!!

Maybe you should make a combo machine?

regards.