From scratch. Lathe, Mill, or maybe both.

[MrBean]

That's a really nice skid - it must be a decent size Heli

What grade is the steel stock you have? You could use the pieces vertically, and fix the headstock between them, linear rail on each one and Z axis ball screw between...?

1-2-3 blocks: I use mine pretty much daily! I don't have a surface plate, but would be lost without the blocks. I use them for all sorts. Sometimes if I need to machine all sides of a part I tap the back and bolt the block to it, then clamp the block in the vice. I bolt them together for a small, accurate square. Yesterday I used them to support the ends of a long bar held at the centre in the vice. They would be approaching the most used tool in my 'shop, I'd hate to be without them...

Those renderings are from Rhino!? I have a lot to learn... How do you get the nice reflection on the background? Very cool...

Best regards,

Jason

The heli is a T-rex, electric jobbie, and I'm useless at it.
I have no idea what grade the steel is, I found it in a scrap pile. I have no engineering background at all, so even if I knew the grade it would mean nothing to me! That's something I need to read up about and maybe get a chart printed up as a reminder for the different type materials.
1-2-3 blocks will definitely be added to the list of things to get.
Rhino sucks a lot in a lot of areas, but then I find it good in others. Rendering is quite sucky though, the renders pictured earlier in the thread were using the Flamingo ray tracer.

Interesting answers

I don't buy steel online and the only link I have is this one http://www.metals4u.co.uk/?gclid=CKH...FYoVzAodjWVg5g , this one for aluminium http://www.aluminiumwarehouse.co.uk/ and this one for aluminium profile http://www.aluminium-profile.co.uk/ .

I think this is going to be an interesting thread and will be following along.

John

Thanks for those links John, I've not had time to check them out yet. I'm sure I've not visited them before, except metals4u. I'll take a look at the others soon.
I'm also hoping this will be an interesting build. I hope it doesn't disappoint and I'm glad you're along for the ride.

Nice parts you have over there, now i know why i never win on ebay!!

Maybe you should make a combo machine?

regards.

That's a neat looking design. Very cool.
I think I'll stick with the two separate machines though. I think with my limited skills it will be easier to keep them separate and I won't have to make as many compromises to fit two machines into one.


In other news.....
I tidied my garage out a bit. I'm pretty bad at keeping a tidy ship, but there just wasn't room to move. (See picture below)
Anyhow, I found some more odds and ends, and a manual mill that I'd forgotten I had, tucked up in the corner. The mill's table is 450mm x 160mm.
I also found some odd bits of metal (See pictures) One of the pictures has a cigarette packet in to give a bit of a size reference. I'm pretty sure there's nothing there that would make a good base for either a lathe or mill. Some of the bits will come in for some of the smaller parts and bracketry etc...

I also found a V-roller thingy. (Wisecarver maybe??) That could come in handy for another router one day.

I think I might give the manual mill a rub down and check it for squareness with a DTI. I meant to sell the milll last year. Looks like it got covered up and I forgot it was there. So I'll hang on to it for the time being and sell it after I've built myself a CNC mill.

[Jason3]

Of all the things to find in your garage, a mill is probably the perfect one for this project.

From what I've heard, being able to make your own parts is the only way RC heli's are an affordable hobby On Rhino 3D - I agree. I can't find the time to learn it properly, and when I try, I don't use it enough and forget everything

McMaster have a good page with characteristics of most of the common steels: http://www.mcmaster.com/#steel/=1pb36r - no doubt there's better out there, but it's a start. I bought my steel from Corus - you probably have a local branch somewhere near you? I'm using a free machining grade stock, it cuts nicely and gives a decent finish but more importantly, it seems to stay straight after machining... I'm sure you could use some, if not most of what you already have though.

Best regards,

Jason

Ps - is that the beginnings of a RAID array beside the drawers?

[MrBean]

Thanks for that link regarding alloy properties, that's going to come in handy if I need to buy some stock.

Buried treasure indeed.

A few hours ago I turned up some 3 phase motors and three variable frequency, single to three phase inverter drives. I need to read the manuals but I'm hoping they might be able to be controlled via Mach3. The largest is 1.5Kw and it's brand spanking new, still in the original packaging. I also found 2 DC servo's and 4 decent looking steppers.

Heli's are definitely not a cheap hobby. I've had mine for about 3 years and only flown it twice, both times I turned it into confetti. It's currently fully re-built, but I don't get much time to fly (As in crash) these days.
This video is what inspired?? me to buy an electric heli.
"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X93CF81jfLM"]YouTube - Paskov Hornet 2

I really don't know why I'm keeping those hard drives, half of them don't work and the other half are really low capacity. I hate to throw stuff away, which is how my garage got in that mess in the first place. It's amazing how much I've managed to pile up in there. There's a CNC router that I haven't got around to finishing, it's about 80% built, with a foot print of around 1000mm x 600mm. I also have a reasonable drill press and two table saws hiding in there too amongst other things. It's like Aladdins cave meets the Tardis.

I'm going back in there tomorrow to tidy up some more.

[SpeedsCustom]

Mr bea, what size Heli you have 450? I have a EXI 450 and love it. I need a new head assembly, nice part, I made similar design. Yet to cut though.
Just saw your video, impressive stuff.


Nice project for the lathe! I like!


-Jason

[MrBean]

Yes, I have the Align 450XL CCPM. I just wish I could fly it better, or at least crash it a bit softer. It must be 2 years since I last took it out.
The heli in that vid is a Hornet II, nice, but the Align 450XL is supposedly superior... (Not in my hands it seems though )

Back to the CNC doings. I had a phone call from my friend who is looking out for metal for me. He's nabbed me some bits, I have no idea what just yet, but he said there's none of the really big stuff I was hoping for, they can only get hold of that when they de-commission a machine at the factory he works at. At the minute I'll take anything, it's bound to be better than what I currently have.

In the mean time I've modelled 6 more of the linear rails and I shall continue with the CAD while I wait....

[Khalid]

so you are cutting the grass with helicopter

[MrBean]

I've measured up and modelled all the linear rails I have, except for the very smallest rails that only have one carriage on each rail, they don't appear useful for the lathe or mill.
I still have ball screws to do, but I made a list of parts sizes and travels to try and make a decision on which parts would be best for what.

IKO LINEAR RAILS:

800mm, 4 carriages, 715mm Max travel
759mm, 4 carriages, 674mm Max travel
519mm, 4 carriages, 429mm Max travel
310mm, 4 carriages, 220mm Max travel
270mm, 4 carriages, 200mm Max travel

THK LINEAR RAILS:

622mm, 4 carriages, 537mm Max travel
270mm, 2 carriages, 200mm Max travel

BALL SCREWS:

800mm, 16mm Dia, 5mm Pitch, 720mm Max travel
685mm, 16mm Dia, 16mm Pitch, 550mm Max travel
500mm, 14mm Dia, 5mm Pitch, 355mm Max travel
500mm, 14mm Dia, 5mm Pitch, 355mm Max travel
340mm, 10mm Dia, 4mm Pitch, 225mm Max travel
280mm, 20mm Dia, 5mm Pitch, 110mm Max travel
270mm, 15mm Dia, 10mm Pitch, 135mm Max travel
185mm, 12mm Dia, 5mm Pitch, 75mm Max travel

For the lathe Z axis I think the 500mm ball screw would be a good choice with a travel of 355mm (almost 14 inches). Used in combination with the 622mm THK rails with a travel of 537mm. The number for Max travel is with the carriages butted up together and I'll want to open them up some, reducing the travel, but the ball screw only has 355mm travel anyway. Also that still leaves room for the 2 carriages from the 270mm THK's to be put on the Z rails for a tail stock.

So that should give me a Z with 355mm travel and 6 carriages (4 for the saddle and 2 for the tail).

For the X axis the 340mm ball screw, (225mm travel), looks like it should be okay along with the 310mm rails, (220mm Max travel). I'll space the carriages a bit and probably end up with around 180mm travel on that axis, (Just over 7 inches).

What do you guys reckon?
Your comments and suggestions please.

[MrBean]

Everything has been feeling a bit "virtual" so far, so I went in the garage and had a bit of a tinker with stuff. Just trying out a few ideas with the real parts rather than CAD. I'm wondering if I can bolt together those two large lumps of steel I have, then weld all around the join? It's damn heavy and looks like it might make a good base for the lathe.

I'll wait and see what bits my friend turns up before I decide on anything.

Also while I was out there, I dragged the manual mill out from the corner and had a play with that. I surfaced a piece of steel plate to see how the mill performed, but because I haven't used a mill before and have no benchmark from which to judge, I really have no idea if it worked well or not. The end result looked ok, but turning the handles made my hands and arms ache.

[Oldmanandhistoy]

Hi,

Do you think the Pro builders have abandoned us already?

That steel looks like it will make a nice base for a lathe, do you not think one will be enough? I am no expert but as soon as you mention welding you’re looking at stress relieving as the steel will start moving around. Maybe not enough to course you problems but we need more expert advice here.

What I would do is build the lathe on one and then embed that piece of steel into an EG (Epoxy granite) base which would incorporate the chip tray. The EG would make a world of difference to the lathe as it would absorb the cutting resonance, reduce chatter, improve your finishing cuts and improve tool life.

You may have noticed I like EG and have been following the thread on the Zone for quite some time. It’s fabulous stuff imho and not all that complicated for machine building if incorporating steel structure. Basically epoxy resin, play sand and pea gravel will make you a solid base to build on. I won’t go on about it unless you’re interested but well worth some investigation imo.

As for your surfacing on the mill, looks good to me but you need a cnc mill so you can at least use the jog buttons instead of all that handle turning.

John

[MrBean]

We're abandoned? Oh no....

The problem with just one of the pieces of steel is that it's not tall enough on it's own to fit the Z axis ball screw to. One piece is 80mm x 40mm. 80mm x 80mm gives me plenty on the front or back side to fit the ball screw.
I did wonder about welding being a problem and I have no idea how one would stress relieve something. Maybe a psychiatrist could help. Some expert advice would be good regarding welding these. I kind'a thought that being fairly large bits I might get away with it?

I need advice, and I'm ready to use it.

I speed read the EG thread you mentioned. It's definitely appealing, but...... is it possible to get fixings into it if you need to. I know what happens, you build something then add bits on and change stuff after it's finished. I have a feeling that if you're using EG in a build, you need to get it right first go. I'm pretty sure my lathe isn't going to be first rate by a long shot. I'll make my mistakes and want to build another one I'm sure.

Handle turning is not for me. All turny handles should be replaced by motors in my opinion.

I still have my friends bits to check out, (Ooooh errr!!), hopefully later this week, so I'll see what that brings.

Thanks John, the EG certainly seems worth more thought, even if I keep it for machine number 2.

Regards Terry.

[hesham morsy]

hi Mr Bean what i m seeing here is hesitation
u gut excellent collection of part and manual mill that forgot ok

1 convert the manual mill to cnc it will help u a lot
2 get some machinery course
3 ask in your neighborhood for milling /Laser cutting shop
for a vmc
My First CNC, own design, buidling in progress
http://www.5bears.com/cnc.htm
http://www.gimbal.com.au/content.aspx?name=cnc-mill

one last question u did not determine tipe of motor /spindle/ chuck/servo/Stepper

[MrBean]

one last question u did not determine tipe of motor /spindle/ chuck/servo/Stepper

Hmmm. I've not really determined anything yet.
I'm hoping to use a 3 phase AC motor with inverter drive for the main motor and probably steppers for axis locomotion. The spindle and chuck are things I want to make with the lathe.
The lathe book by David Gingery gives some good information on how the lathe can build it's self once you have the Z and X axis working, so my plan is to build a temporary headstock and spindle using the lathe itself. If that goes well, I can hopefully make new permanent ones.

I had a call from my friend while I was typing this and he's got me some more aluminium. I'm going over there to pick it up on Friday. He said a lot of it is ½" plate, but there's apparently at least enough to build 3 or 4 machines from.
None of the really thick stuff, but I'm more than happy to get some ½" stock to use. I could even fill ½" frames with epoxy granite for extra damping.

There was one large bit but he couldn't get it in his truck, it was 48" x 36" x 4", pretty beefy.