Witch milling machine to buy for CNC retrofit?

[Sperstad]

Sometime in the near future I want to buy a milling machine for my shop, that I want to CNC retrofit later. But I`m not shure with machine is the best choice and how much a CNC retrofit will cost. The milling machines I`ve been considering is:

Acra/Rong Fu RF-40
Sieg X3
Bridgeport Serie 1 or similar (used)

I want to retrofit the machine I buy with a 3-axis CNC system (x,y and z). With one of these machines would you recommend?

I know that the RF-40 has very small quill travel (5”), in that way the X3 is much better. Is there a problem to convert the RF-40 to 3-axis CNC (I`m thinking about the Z-axis)? In the Bridgeport I can produce much bigger parts, but I guess the retrofit cost will be much higher than the others machines. I`ve been searching this forum trying to find out how much different retrofits will cost, but didn`t find out that much. Can anyone estimate how much a retrofit will cost on these machines (if I don`t buy a kit, but just buy parts and make the brackets my self and etc.)?

[Runner4404spd]

i would get the RF-45. look at the industrial hobbies website. they sell the largest version of this mill. they are currently importing a new bunch of these around february.

[RICHARD ZASTROW]

Sperstad, Just a thought, there are probably more Bridgeport parts and kits etc. on ebay and other after market sources. Also, as you mentioned, more travel available. There are many accesories avalable as well.

[snakebit95]

Sperstad,
I think your first step should be to determine what type and size parts you plan to make, how much money you plan to invest in your first machine, and what type of electrical power you have available. Providing HONEST answers to these questions should narrow your selection down quite a bit. I started with a CNC dovetail type mill-drill for my hobby shop at home. This allowed me to machine my parts and test the market at a reasonable upfront cost. Keep in mind that the cost of the machine is not the only upfront cost in making parts. You have to also consider the tool-holders, cutting tools, CAD/CAM software (if applicable), inspection equipment / tools, work-holding devices (i.e. vise, clamps, e.t.c.), finishing / deburring equipment (if required) and any other processing equipment required to complete your parts. Hope this helps you get started.

[Sperstad]

Thanks for the answers!
The milling machines that Lathemaster and Industrial Hobbies deliver looks very good. And these machines are big enough for the jobs I will do with them. But what is the different between a "square column" and a "dovetail column"? The machine from Lathemaster seems very cheap, wath is the price on the machine from IH (I`ve sent them a mail, but havn`t recived any answer)? Since I`m from Norway, I need a machine that can handle 1 or 3 phase 220v and 50Hz. Can these machines handle that? Witch of these 2 machines would you recommend?

Don`t think a Bridgeport will be an option for me, since I don`t need bigger machines than the to others above. An a CNC retrofit would be more expensive on a BP than on a benchtop model I guess. Does anyone know how much a CNC retrofit on a RF-45 clone would cost?

A Bridgeport machine is much heavyer and solid than a bench top machine. But how accurate is the RF-45 clone compared to a Bridgeport (or similar) machine?

[snakebit95]

Square column and dovetail column are the same thing, just different terminology. Try your best to stay-away from the round post columns if you plan to do any heavy feeding. They have a tendency to move when you experience tool-chatter or feed heavy with larger cutting tools.

As for accuracy, it depends on a lot of factors; such as the type of ball-screws you decide to use (rolled versus precision ground), how square everything is machined from the factory, your gibb adjustments, the type of timing pulleys you use, your programming style (roughing with or without a light finishing pass), e.t.c. As you can see, there is a lot to consider when making GOOD parts.

[LUCKY13]

I have done a lot of research on these size mills. I am kinda at the same place as you only I have done the research. I still have not bought a mill. I desided to go with full size mill & lathe ( Bridgeport mill & LeBlond lathe).

If I was going to buy a desktop mill with intent to CNC later, The IH mill would be hard to beat. It is biult better than any other I have looked at in the desktops. If you search on there site enough you can find vidio of the machine doing work after it was CNCed.

As far as it working with 220/440 both I am not sure. It would only be the motor that would deside this & could be changed. If you dig into the IH site you will probably find more info than you knew was there. Even though these are a desktop mill they are not no small undersized machine. When you see the picture of the Small V8 engine block setting the table of the mill it will give you a good idea of the size. They could handle any work that most people would atempt to do.


A square column mill has Dove tail guides/ways ( on the ones you are looking at) There is such a thing as square ways ( boxed ways) but this is something you are not going to find in this size machine.
The thing about the square column is it is not a Round Post column ( more like a drill press) this is what they are mainly saying when they say Square Column.


A few things when looking at mills. Look at the weight of the machine, the more it weighes the more it can handle without problems. Table size & table travel ( this includes spindle to table distance) will have a lot to do with what they are capable of.


You being in norway may be a problem ( cost more for shipping). But if you talk to them (IH) it may be possible to have the mill shipped stight to you instead of being shipped to the USA & then back ( not sure on this you would have to talk to them).


The latheMaster mill is a good mill. People that have them like them. Lathemaster is a very good company and they try to sale very good machines & parts for the money. The LM mill is not as big as the IH mill. As a matter a fact there is a big diffenace in the two when it comes to size & table work load. It depends on how much mill you want & have room for ( and ofcourse budget). Both are very good machines for there prices range & size. I chose the IH because of its size & sturdyness.


Here is a link that gives a Pre Sale price. It is normally about two hundred more.
http://www.industrialhobbies.com/Mer...ory_Code=Mills

This picture gives a good idea on how big the IH mill is.


Jess

[glnth]

What is the price of there cnc kit? I've never seen it. Industrial hobbie

[Sperstad]

Since the IH machine is big enough for my kind of work, I`m very interessted i buying that machine. But beacuse of the weight and sturdyness of the IH machine compared to BP, I`m not shure what to buy yet. I found this thread on another forum about the table deflection and the bad steel used in the IH machine, and I got a littlebit concerned. Have anyone here any experiense on table deflection att the IH and Lathemaster machine?

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/arc...p/t-12364.html

LUCKY13: How much are you planning to use on buying a milling machine? I`ve seen allot of BP (series 1) machines on Ebay costing from 1000-1500$ and more. But if I buy a BP for about 1500$, I probaly have to spend a lot of money replacing parts that are worn out? Or what do you thnk?

Are you planning to retrofitt your milling machine? I`ve been looking on some stepper motors and drivers from http://www.kelinginc.net. What do you thing a retrofit on a IH and BP would cost (3-axis)?

[LUCKY13]

As far as the IH mill it is much more beefy than most other mills of this size or Zay types. Heck I think this machine weights close to 1000lbs. You want have no problem with table defection or the metal they are just a well built machine that is designed to handle a lot more than other mills in this size. Probably the strongest benchtop mill you can get. If a benchtop mill is what I had to buy this is the one i would buy. If you go to there website and dig real good you can find a lot of info on this machine. Read though all the mantinace & mod topics ( heck read every topic they have) and you will see what the machine can do. The site is a little hard to find some stuff on, you find links in topics that will take you to things that are not listed so read everything you can find and follow every link.


As far as the IH or a BP, that to me would be a choice desided by my room and needs. If you dont have room for a 7ft mill like a BP the IH is the one as far as I am conserned. If you have room for a BP then that is what I would get. You look around enough you can get some pretty good BP's for around $2500.00 that want need much if anything to be running good.


I am going to retro fit a mill with CNC. As far as cost it would probably cost a little bit more to do a BP than a IH but not much. As far as cost for doing this it is hard to put a price on it. there is so many way to go about it that it could cost between $3 to $10,000 dollars depending on which route you take. Of course it can cost more if you want to go that far ( adding forth axis on a top notch setup & other things).


I think most people would do really good with the IH ( unless you have a shop with the room ) If your trying to work out of a small building or a low cieling house garage then the IH is going to be a good machine. They have a very good CNC kit that is made to fit it from IH that works great & is of good quality & performance. I do not know the price of this though you may need to call to find out.

One thing I noticed about the posted thread you linked to is most of them guys are talking about other mills ( that are not really IH mills) that are the same design & size ( atleast they think they are but there really not as big) None of the mills thoughs guys where talking about have a R8 spindle ( except the one guy that has the IH mill that was talking about the motor). The motor is the only bad part of those mills and they tell you up front that they are cheesy motors & recamend it to be replaced with one they offer that gives better performance & RPM.


You really need to spend a lot of time reading & researching about the things you are in question about. Just the fact that you are asking these questions show that you need to understand more about these machines so you know more about what you need & what each machine is capable of. I have spent the last 3 months reading every day with sometimes 8 hours aday ( I know its hard for most people to do this but I am dissabled) researching machines & I find that I learn stuff that makes me go back and reread things & then realize more about what the truth is about buying this machine or that one.


If you can afford to buy a machine already to go (CNC) you might look into the Tormach mill. It is a good priced package. Go to the Tormach website & read all the info & watch all the Vidio's of the machine cutting. This will give you a very good idea on what this size machine can do. IMOH I think the IH mill is a little bit heaver than the Tormach & would handle heavier stuff a little bit better. But for $6800.00 the Tormach is a very good setup that many people are liking the results of. Ofcourse doing a CNC retrofit yourself is going to take longer but it will allow you to do it in steps if budget requires this. You also learn a lot about your mill & its functions which will help you keep it mantained & working good.


There is so many ways to achive a good mill & setup it gets a bit overwellming to understand it all. The best thing is to keep reading & asking questions & take your time before buying a machine. I have read every single thread in some of the sections & half of them twiced & I am still learning everyday.


One thing about buying a mill is no matter what size you get you will be wanting to do something bigger than it will handle someday. The more you learn the more you will want to do. So buy the biggest/heavest mill you can get that fits your budget/space & machining needs.


Jess

[mastermoparman]

well im interested in this as well. have a total time in this trade of 4 months now (worked for one shop then got lade off moved got another job at a different shop). still kneed to buy a tool box and some other stuff before doing a project like this. i was wondering would it be better to build one from scratch rather then retrofit? im lazy i admit it but when some thing is worth doing its worth doing right. and eventually i want to have a automatic tool changer on my machine. don't really have a lot of room so its going to be table top size. i saw a few cnc routers that people have built and like the design. something like this one i found in the gallery except have the spindle do all the moving and the table stationary and 4 or 5 axis. probably similar size to http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/showp...o/3929/cat/505
would it be possible to build one that would handle stainless steel? probably only would use up to 1/2 in tool size maby a 1.5 in face mill or so. because i want to have a tool changer means i probably would kneed to build a custom spindle? any one have exp with doing something like this? how hard is it to have programmable spindle speed spindle?

now i have seen some cnc with what looks like the same thing as a digital read conversion for Manuel mills? what is up with that?
lol thanks for the help