My mill Conversion

[phatfred8]

Hello All,

I have been reading here off and on for the past year. I found this site last year when I traded a guy for an old CNC Knee mill. I gave him a Wells Index 555, 2hp motor (step pulley), 9x42 table, power feed on the x. I got a Tri-onics Handyman CNC Mill. It has a 3hp Motor (variable speed), 10x54 table, ball screws, one shot oilier, and junk electrical control. I moved the mill to my house and have not done much to it over the last 10 months. I am getting caught up and now am getting ready to start.
I will try to document this the best I can but I am going to have a hard time keeping up with some of the others on the forum. So this is what I am thinking so far. I got an enclosure off of a Bridgeport that was being trashed. So I have mounted this on the rear of the machine and am planning on using this for all my electronics. The power supply is OK on the old Tri-onics control and I will move this into the enclosure and use it. The machine has stepper’s (680oz, 2-1 reduction) with linear scales on each axis. I do not know if Tri-onics used these for position feed back or readout.
I am looking very hard at Gecko’s 202, Larkin cobra’s. As for the breakout board it may be one of the following: Campbell’s, PMDX, or the Grex100. Mach 3 as the software. I am thinking of using one of the first (2) breakout boards because I am not planning on using encoders for the time being. I want to get this mill running and see what doors it opens and then I will probably get a different machine in the future, but I still want a functional machine. I am willing to spend the money and the control wiring and machining will be no big problem. I have wired and programmed many PLC’s, and may other types of industrial equipment.
So this is the start of my progress and I will post pictures of the machine in the next few days.

Thanks all in advance, Brian

The mill I have looks like the picture attached.

[NinerSevenTango]

Looks like a nice project! Seems like once you get all the controls working you should be in business right away.

--97T--

[Brunow]

Nice going! Some nice production machine you have there! What do you plan to produce?

[phatfred8]

Hey thanks for the reply,
My plans for the machine are as follows:
1. I want to build a control.
2. I want a CNC in my shed
3. I have bid on some fabricated parts that need some machine work late last year and this machine would work for the jobs I quoted.
4. I plan to build a router/plasma table after the mill.
I have a few friends that do a lot of work working and they would like to have a router table. I mainly do fabrication work but have always liked machining parts to. I have been collecting tools for the last 10 years and I now have a shop big enough to spread them out(Never Big Enough I think). I will take pictures this weekend and post for you to see. I am working on biulding a bathroom and office in the shed. I am going to need a place to surf the net and do drawing. I want to finish the bathroom first but tinkering on the mill a little every night.

Brian

[phatfred8]

Hello all,

I have been doing a little work on the mill the last few days. I took the old electrical enclosure and stripped out the old stepper boards and control boards. These are of no use, as I do not have the computer part to run them or diagrams. After stripping all of these parts out I was down to the power supply, capacitor, and bridge rectifier. I powered up the transformer and measured 41 volts DC on the bridge rectifier. So that is working and I plan to unmount these component’s from that enclosure and install them in the new box on the rear of the machine(I will get picture’s to show).
I did look at the stepper motors and have found that these are wired for Bi-polar Parallel(8 wire motors). According to the spec. sheet on the internet these motors connected these way will pull 9.8 Amps per phase with a 802 oz-in of torque. These are connected to the 5 TPI ball screws with a 2:1 reduction via a timing belt giving me a .0005" per step. The motors are round and not square like a lot of the motors you see being sold. The company still makes these motor and they are round. These was built and used with these motors so my take on it would be use them for now. I have read someplace on forum that the round motors are no good and the square style has more torque. I am not sure if agree with this, any input from experience?
Originally the machine’s computer used scales on each axis for position feedback and maybe to tell the computer it missed the target. I am undecided on what to do here, 3 options have crossed my mind:
1. I use the scales and feed these back into the Gecko Grex controller some how. I have not dug into this to much on if it will work.
2. Mount encoder’s on the ends of the motors I currently have and feed this back to the Gecko Grex controller. I would have to make mounting plates, spacers, and extend shafts on the motors, not a big deal.
3. Built up an open loop system with on of the following breakout boards Campbell Designs, PDMX. I may run two breakout boards to get more inputs and outputs. This would be the simplest way but I am not a 100% sure if I get what I want.
I am not looking to get to +/- .0005 tolerances it is an old machine, just in the +/-.001-2 range would make me happy.
Based on the above I am asking the following questions?
1. KISS Keep It Simple Stupid, build up the system open loop, tweak where I can and at a later time buy a newer machine with a tool charger, more capacity, and bigger work envelope?
2. Install the encoder’s, use the Grex, and Mach 3. Junk the scales. Then if I want to add extra axis’s later I can?

One of the thoughts in my head is that is if I do not like the control or accuracy of the machine doing it the KISS way, I will redo the control and use the old parts to build a cutting table or router. Then build up the mill with a different solution.

Any Input or war stories?

Brian

[phatfred8]

I have not done to much in the last week or two. I have been working on a bathroom in the shop, along with an office area. Coming along pretty good, but will slow down in two weeks when I go on vacation. I am planning on after the trip to get into the mill. I am posting a few pictures. The first is a picture of the enclosure that I am stripping out to use on the retrofit. The second is the same enclosure stripped out. I am going to paint the inside of the enclosure first before mounting parts. The third picture is the box that was on the machine originally. I have stripped out the out stepper boards and am keeping the power supply. It will be moved to the new box. I am still on the fence about what to do with the drive and break-out board. When I get back from my trip I will have to decide. Well just a small update.

Brian

[hybidder]

Have you made any progress lately? I just bought a Tri-onics Handyman in an auction so I'm curious as to how your project is coming along. I haven't even hauled mine home, or laid eyes (I have seen pictures) on it yet for that matter but it is supposed to be fully operational. I have bought a few items from the same auctioneer sight unseen before and his descriptions have been accurate.

[phatfred8]

Well over the last year I have not done a damn thing but mount the enclosure. I do welding and fabrication work for the company I work for along with others. This year my work has picked up and I have just not set time aside to work on it. I contracted out some machine work over the last year and I really need to get the mill fixed up and running. It would be nice to have the ability CNC machine parts in house rather than either manually milling in the shop of sending them out to someone else. I have also seen a need to for a cutting table. There again a cnc mill will help make the cnc cutting table. I have about a months worth of work to get done and then I am going to really try and get to the mill. I will keep you posted as I move forward.

Brian

P.S. I have the old cards out of my machine and if you need them let me know. I will be happy to send them to you. You pay shipping. I do not know is they work and I only have the ones located in the enclosure not the operator interface.

[hybidder]

I sent you an email through the site. If you didn't get it you might try sending one to me. I'll gladly take you up on your offer. Just let me know how much it will be and I'll get it to you before you send them.

......and stop letting stuff as trivial as work interfere with the important things like getting your shop and equipment in shape-lol.

My shop (still in progress also) sounds similar to what your putting together. I built a bathroom with a shower and although I don't have a walled in office I have a corner with an auction bought sofa, undercounter fridge with an icemaker, microwave, and even a small countertop dishwasher. There's a 36" TV mounted on a swivel arm so I can aim it toward whichever project I'm working on. My wireless internet reaches from the house to the shop and I usually leave my laptop in the shop since that's where I spend most of my time anyway. After several weeks this summer when more days than not reached 100+ temps I broke down and airconditioned it and now I wish I had done it long before. My girlfriend calls it my "nest" and learned quickly when she comes over not to even bother going to the house but to just come on around back.

[phatfred8]

I have recieved your email offline. I will be happy to send you the parts. Give me a week or so and I will take some pictures of the parts and email them to you. I have a few things that I need to get done before I can ship them, unless I have time free up.
I have been doing some research and I think I am going to buy the following parts:

Keling Products Servos with Encoders, 800+ oz-in Motors
Larken Viper Drives
Cambells Breakout Board
Mach 3

I have some funds coming in from a few jobs and I am planning on starting on it. Or at least getting pieces setting here so if I do get time I have things to work on.

Brian

[hybidder]

No rush, just whenever you get the time.

I brought my machine home yesterday. I ran it in manual mode briefly after indicating the head and vise back in. It seems to be a pretty solid manual machine. The control head lights up and the DRO works but my RS232 cable end which goes into the back of the display is broken so I wasn't able to try the drives. I'll work on deciphering the pin out of the connector when I get a free afternoon in the next week or so.

I googled your potential equipment upgrades and (although my knowledge on CNC's is very limited) they look like some good choices. I downloaded the freebie MACH2 version a few days and have been playing with it a bit. MACH2impressed me so I'm certain MACH3 must really kick butt. I never realized how many DIY CNC options there are these days and some are pretty darned slick. Once you get all of your refitting/ upgrades done you'll have a heck of a machine.

Are you leaving the Z- axis operation as is or do you plan to add a ballscrew drive or something else? I realized after looking at mine that the way it was originally built I won't be able to do much more than drilling. Just MHO but I don't think I can maintain much accuracy if I try any true 3-D conturing without making the spindle more solid.

[phatfred8]

Hey all,

Well over the last 2 months I ordered a few components. I purchased the transformer for the power supply from www.avellindberg.com, 25 + 25 secondary, 1000 KVA. I have looked at break-out boards from Campbells, CNC4PC. I have talked to people at CNC4PC via email and so far they have been real helpful. I have also have had emails with Larry at Larken. He has also been helpful. I have started on the wiring diagram in my free time also. I put together a list of items that I need to purchase from Allied Electronics. Misc. electrical connectors like amphenols, terminals strips, relays, and push buttons. I am planning on ordering parts in the next few weeks. So just wanted to drop a line and let the zone know how things are going. I am also in the process of setting up a website, customers bringing in parts, and working the other job. Busy Busy

Brian

Hybidder: Are you still interested in the boards for the shipping?