Grizzly G0602 10" x 22" Lathe Conversion - Page 3


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Thread: Grizzly G0602 10" x 22" Lathe Conversion

  1. #41
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    Default Pictures

    I'm finally at a point where I was happy with the machine and all the features/choices I made so I took some pictures to share.

    The panel is a piece of anodized aluminum from McMaster-Carr that I laser etched on my CO2 laser here at the shop.

    I also had the idea that I could build in a 3 way rotary switch and MPG into the panel (3 way to select X, Z or off). Oh, and I ordered the speed control from cnc4pc.com so I could test it too.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Grizzly G0602 10" x 22" Lathe Conversion-l1022gfull1-jpg   Grizzly G0602 10" x 22" Lathe Conversion-l1022gfull3-jpg   Grizzly G0602 10" x 22" Lathe Conversion-l1022gpanel1-jpg   Grizzly G0602 10" x 22" Lathe Conversion-l1022gx1-jpg  

    Grizzly G0602 10" x 22" Lathe Conversion-l1022gx4-jpg   Grizzly G0602 10" x 22" Lathe Conversion-l1022gz1-jpg  


  2. #42
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    Default Looking Good!!!

    I like it! Very clean. Almosts makes the lathe plain looking but serves the purpose.

    I got my lathe set up with steppers and the right drivers now. I don't get anywhere near 150 ipm but I'm still running the stock lead screws. I want to keep it stock for now as I decide on how I want to proceed. I will most like move to Acme threads and Delrin nuts for the first conversion to see if it is as smooth as I'd like and keep the percision. If not, I'll most likely go the same as you have, use ball screws and nuts.

    I do have a question. Did you remove the gear box when you change the lead screw or just the bearing? Getting to the gear box looks to be a little difficult and I really don't want to kill the lathe right off the bat. My thought was to pull the lead screw, cut a new one to fit the old bearing on the gearbox, and then change out the far end with a new mount and bearing. From there attache the motor, very similar to what you did. Keeping the gear box intact will let me revert the lathe if I want to sell it someday when I upgrade. For now, that won't be for a couple or years or more.

    Thanks for any information and again, well done!

    Ron



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    Quote Originally Posted by rfrenzl View Post
    I like it! Very clean. Almosts makes the lathe plain looking but serves the purpose.
    Simple is on purpose You are right, when I looked at the pictures, it does look very plain. I'm going to anodize the aluminum bits so that should add some pizazz to the machine.

    Quote Originally Posted by rfrenzl View Post
    I got my lathe set up with steppers and the right drivers now. I don't get anywhere near 150 ipm but I'm still running the stock lead screws. I want to keep it stock for now as I decide on how I want to proceed. I will most like move to Acme threads and Delrin nuts for the first conversion to see if it is as smooth as I'd like and keep the percision. If not, I'll most likely go the same as you have, use ball screws and nuts.
    A ball screw and nut will only set you back about $75 for the Z and $50 for the X (this is from McMaster-Carr). I'd highly recommend going that route. Steppers have MUCH more torque at lower RPMs and do very well with the .200 lead on the ball screws. Plus the rotational friction does much more to stall the motors than the linear motion... To test: hold the screw and try to keep it from turning -- you may be able to. Now, push with all your weight against the Z slide -- I can't stop mine even at 200 ipm.

    Quote Originally Posted by rfrenzl View Post
    I do have a question. Did you remove the gear box when you change the lead screw or just the bearing?
    I took everything out of the gear box. I also took the gears out of the compartment with the pulleys, too -- less noise. I'm not worried about converting this back later. If I buy a larger machine later, I'm sure I'll continue to use this one, too.

    There are a few screws, but the gearbox is easy to get to. Take off all the screws on the control panel and then take out the four painted cap screws that are underneath the panel... now clean up all the oil that drained out of the gearbox (or, now that you know, put a towel down to catch the oil BEFORE you take the cover off)

    I have not captured the screw on the left -- just at the motor on the right and on the slide. This was not an issue at 60 ipm feed rates, but at 210 ipm, it is a HUGE issues. That screw, if I move more than about 6" from the spindle whips so much... The way I designed this, the screw doesn't end in the same location as the old one. I have a bearing on the way so I can capture this end of the screw -- just a simple bearing, nothing fancy ($5.00 from McMaster-Carr) -- it could probably be HDPE or some other such plastic if you wanted.



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    Was surprised that you did not have a bearing block on the left end of the Z axis. Most designs I have studied have bearings (thrust one end, open other) on the long axis. i.e. X axis on a mill.

    The left in bearing block just has to be a simple bearing that allows the ball screw to expand/contract along its axis. Alignment is most important and parallel along entire axis. Otherwise binding is possible.

    My G0602 was just delivered. In process of cleaning it up. Changed out to a Phase II QCTP. Milled a new base with a 9/16-18 tapped hole. A 9/16" is a good sub to replace the metric stud on the Phase II.

    Will you be posting new drawings, etc. for your latest mods? What size steppers have you found best for the X and Z axis?



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    Quote Originally Posted by dgoddard View Post
    Was surprised that you did not have a bearing block on the left end of the Z axis. Most designs I have studied have bearings (thrust one end, open other) on the long axis. i.e. X axis on a mill.
    It bounced around a little bit at 60 ipm, but REALLY matters at higher feeds. This is one of the last things I need to design for this machine. I always knew I'd have to do it, just hadn't got around to it yet. The bearing will be here tomorrow.

    Quote Originally Posted by dgoddard View Post
    My G0602 was just delivered. In process of cleaning it up. Changed out to a Phase II QCTP. Milled a new base with a 9/16-18 tapped hole. A 9/16" is a good sub to replace the metric stud on the Phase II.
    Oddly, we had the proper tap here for the metric stud, so I just used the one that came with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by dgoddard View Post
    Will you be posting new drawings, etc. for your latest mods? What size steppers have you found best for the X and Z axis?
    Yes, once I get them ready. Probably a couple days... my least favorite thing to do is prepare drawings... otherwise they'd be here already.

    I haven't tried different sized steppers. Both are 270 oz/in which I find to be more than enough. It is important to put enough voltage / current through them so you get the top torque and speed possible. I can't speak highly enough about the Geckos. I bought a G203V initially in case I made a mistake. once I had everything figured out I got a G201 which works wonderfully too. It is AMAZING to me that I could go from 60 ipm to 210+ by just changing the driver and power supply.



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    Quote Originally Posted by derekbackus View Post
    I took everything out of the gear box. I also took the gears out of the compartment with the pulleys, too -- less noise. I'm not worried about converting this back later. If I buy a larger machine later, I'm sure I'll continue to use this one, too.

    There are a few screws, but the gearbox is easy to get to. Take off all the screws on the control panel and then take out the four painted cap screws that are underneath the panel... now clean up all the oil that drained out of the gearbox (or, now that you know, put a towel down to catch the oil BEFORE you take the cover off)
    Thank you for the information. I had guessed as much but wanted to be sure from someone who actually did it. I know about the ball screws vs. threaded rod and the pros and cons of each. I've done a few conversions on a mini mill and learned a few things. The threaded Acme rod is very cheap right now from Enco. Free shipping and it happens to be 1/2 off too. I use the stuff for other things so I bought enough to do a trial and see what and how I want to do the conversion. I plan on doing something similar to what you did with the faceplace on the cross slide. Just remove it and make a new one to mount the nut to. The Acme rod I have is 3/4"-6 so it is close to the same pitch of your ball screw and I will use UHMW plastic for the nut which is very slippery. It may lack the necessary stiffness but it will be easy to make and test and will have almost no backlash. I'll use 1/2" Acme rod for the cross slide but may wait as what I have now works. Once I'm happy with the overall design, I can upgrade to ball screws and nuts very easily as all I'll need is to cut the ends to fit the bearing and swap the nuts.

    Again, thank you for the info and great work on your lathe!



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    Default More Videos



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    Looking good!

    I got my Acme screws in yesterday and I started on the bearing blocks this evening. I happened to look in on the Mini-Lathe forum and noticed something. One of the conversion kits left the original lead screw so manual threading was possible and just added the CNC lead screw below it. An interesting idea. Right now, All I've done to the lathe is to knock out the pin for the lead screw and took off the bearing block from the right side. My new blocks will go in the same place as the old one and the left side will have to be mounted to the bed. This leaves all of the gears intact and if I ever need to use manual threading, I can put the old parts back on in about ten minutes.

    I will get my aluminium stock Thursday so I can make the new face for the slide and mount the lead screw nut. I also will go the same route as derekbackus and replace the taper slide with a single block. I can set the height to better suit my tools and have a little more room.

    I'm still think about what to do with the cross slide. It works okay for now, but a bit slow. I have some new Acme rod for it, .5"-10, and I may use the stock thrust bearings as they are fine for the time being. Plus I'm out of my good thrust bearings. I'll have to look as I should have at least two more. May be hiding out on my old X2.

    Anyway, thanks for the inspiration and ideas. I like what you've done but want to try out a few ideas before using all of your drawings and design. Half the fun for me is thinking up new ways to do things and see how it goes. I learn new stuff, develop my skills, and have something to play with after I'm done.

    Last edited by rfrenzl; 07-24-2008 at 10:57 PM.


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    Wondering what "in/step" value was your target and what actual value of your design?



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    Quote Originally Posted by dgoddard View Post
    Wondering what "in/step" value was your target and what actual value of your design?
    I'm sorry, I'm not sure what that means. Do you mean Steps per Second?



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    "in/step" I think means what is your resolution. ( I.E. steps per in.) I know you have incredible speed but that usually comes at the cost of some resolution. My setup has 9600 steps/in or .0001" resolution. Of course, I only get 35"/min with the current configuration. Once I increase the voltage to the step motors, I should get somewhere around 45"/min.

    Also, what was your goal for resolution? The QA check on my lathe indicated that runout and other tolerances were .0005" or less (I'm pulling this from memory so I may be off a bit). Having the steppers set to give too much higher resolution than this will not be of much benefit. Of course, the better each moving part is, the better the overall resolution as this will minimize any compound errors.

    I could be wrong on just what dgoddard was asking.

    Ron



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    Quote Originally Posted by rfrenzl View Post
    "in/step" I think means what is your resolution. ( I.E. steps per in.) I know you have incredible speed but that usually comes at the cost of some resolution. My setup has 9600 steps/in or .0001" resolution. Of course, I only get 35"/min with the current configuration. Once I increase the voltage to the step motors, I should get somewhere around 45"/min.
    Oh, if that is the case, the steppers have 200 steps per revolution. I'm using Gecko's so I get that x 10 so 2,000 steps per revolution. I am using a .200 lead ballscrew so 10,000 steps per inch.

    Quote Originally Posted by rfrenzl View Post
    Also, what was your goal for resolution?
    I didn't have a goal starting out. My Tormach mill runs at 60ipm so that was my rapid goal for the lathe when I started out. I didn't have an specifc mcrostepping goals. The Gecko's basclly defined the microstepping resolution I would get.

    Derek



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    At 10,000 steps per inch the resolution is 0.0001. That's what I was looking for. I'm familiar with mill requirements but did not have a good feel for what CNC lathe value should shoot for in my design. From my calculations with Mach3 running at 25K will give me at least 0.0001 or better.



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    I set up one of my bench power supplies to drive my lathe motors. The PS is rated at 50v and 3a with constant voltage and/or constant current. I don't need the limiting on the lathe but the PS does provide an idea of how much power is being used in which condition. I found that upping the voltage from 36 to 50, my rapids went from 30 ipm to over 50 ipm. And this with a step/in of 19200 (the drivers I use only have 1/4 and 1/8 microsteps so it is either 19200 or 9600). I was pleasantly surprised with the increase in speed and I don't seem to notice any los in power. The PS is showing over .5a at max speed which is pretty good. Most motors I've tested drop to less than .3a at speed. With the 50v, I have a full 25+ watts of power at all times. At 10 ipm, I have more than 1a to the motors for 50w. Way more than enough to do almost anything the lathe can manage.

    For my setup, I am using an Acme threaded rod, .75"-6tpi, 1/8 microstep, and a 2:1 reduction via a cogged belt. As I did not have a pulley to fit a .5" shaft, so I made my own. It works great.

    For the next upgrade, I will be changing out the 1hp AC motor for a 2hp DC motor with a controller that has regenerative breaking, constant torque compensation, IR compensation, and reverse. The new motor is rated at 4000 rpm at 130v, so I expect to get about 3000 rpm at 90v the controller will put out. With the variable speed, I can set the lathe pulleys to the 720 rpm spindle speed an be able to get from 100-200 up to 1000+ rpm without needing to touch a thing. Once the motor is mounted and working, it will be connected to a DAC circuit to let the software drive it. If I can manage it, I'll add in a feedback loop so I can get precise speeds. This is really not necessary but would be fun to have. Just as long as I can sync the spindle to the feed for threading and other similar functions, I'm happy.

    I'll see if I can snap a few pictures of things before it gets too torn up. I'm not as good as Derek but he was my inspiration for this so kudos to him. I don't think I'll have the precision he has over the entire length of the bed but my test indicator showed less than .002" of backlash. Given what I'm using for the lead screws and nuts, that is not too bad.

    Ron



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    Quote Originally Posted by rfrenzl View Post
    For the next upgrade, I will be changing out the 1hp AC motor for a 2hp DC motor with a controller that has regenerative breaking, constant torque compensation, IR compensation, and reverse.
    I didn't receive a notification anyone posted to this thread!

    It would love to add this to my lathe. Let me know how this goes. I tried a commercial variable speed contro, but without any success at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by rfrenzl View Post
    I'll see if I can snap a few pictures of things before it gets too torn up. I'm not as good as Derek but he was my inspiration for this so kudos to him. I don't think I'll have the precision he has over the entire length of the bed but my test indicator showed less than .002" of backlash. Given what I'm using for the lead screws and nuts, that is not too bad.
    Not sure that I'm that "good" At first, I just wanted something that worked well and wanted to learn as I was going along. Once it worked well, and I figured out what it cost to build, I thought I'd work to make this a product instead of just a piece of equipment for my shop.

    I still say the backlash doesn't even matter that much. I bet you get great repeatability. The CAM software I've used only cuts in one direction anyway. I would think the backlash on the X would be the biggest issue, but, then, only if you are moving in both directions during a cut (rare for me).

    I can't even begin to express how much I've learned! When I started with this project, I had spent months reading about motors, controllers, breakout boards, power supplies, motor controllers, and on and on.



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    Thanks for the encouragement, Derek.

    I managed to pick up a couple of 2.5 hp DC motors that run at 4000 rpm@130v. I have a KB controller that is loaded out for all kinds of compensation and such, so it and the motor will be mated. I've looked at the motor mounts and I have turned an adapter to fit the pulleys now on the lathe to fit the smaller spindle of the DC motor. I just need to figure out how to mount it. If I keep the lower speed pulleys in place and use them (rpm is about 500) I can use the mounting plate for the pulleys to tighten the belts. That leaves only mounting the motor to the lathe and that looks to be only a couple of bolts. Because the DC motor is rated at a higher rpm, I am expecting to be able to get from <100 to more than 1000 rpm without needing to change any belts. As almost all of my work is aluminum, brass, bronze, and mild steel, this should be fine.

    I am expecting my shipment of steel plate this week and I am planning to do a motor removal over the weekend. I'll see how it goes from there. If I can't make a mount that I like, I'll put the old motor back on and think some more. I wish I could weld, that would make things a bit easier.

    I will take some pictures of the process to show you how it goes. I have a KBRG-225D controller which will be a good match for my motor. Once I have the manual speed control working, I'll work to add the circuitry to control it from the software. CNC4PC has a board that does this and I used one on my old mill. Unfortunately, the board fell apart when I removed it from seervice. I don't know what happened but the relay came unraveled, the board quit working, and overall it just fell apart. I will build my own this time and avoid any possible issues. The CNC4PC stuff is okay but I have one of their BOB that generates random spikes to the parallel port and does not seem to work very well. Took a long time to trace the issue. I converted to a simple BOB with NO on-board circuits and directly connects to the port. No more errors or other random glitches.

    Derek, if you are looking to do something similar with a spindle motor, the trick will most likely be finding a good motor controller that is rated for the necessary load and has the features you need. I found mine on eBay after bidding on a number of different controllers. This particular one has all the features you'd want including a tach feedback if you choose to add one. The only draw back I have is that my controller is rated at 10a max which is at the limit for the motors I have. With the belt reduction, I should be fine as long as I don't get too greedy and take a big cut. Time will tell.

    Last edited by rfrenzl; 08-20-2008 at 03:25 PM. Reason: added information


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    Things progressing slowly but steady on my conversion. Got the table welded up and leveled. Made the leveling feet from hockey putts. My 1.5 hp 3 ph motor arrived yesterday and have it wired for testing to my VFD that is also used on my RF-31 mill which was converted to CNC about 1-1/2 years ago. Works great on mill and should work on lathe equally well. Will have to weld up a new motor mount attachment to mount the 3 ph due to wiring panel location on motor. Also new motor shaft is 7/8, so will have to drill/ream pulley to 7/8. Instead of steppers, will use servo's. This will allow me to use same power supply/drivers as use on mill. Saves a bunch of $$. Already have two servo's which will put US Digital 400 cpr encoders on and connect with 2:1 reduction. I'm designing for rapids of 120 ipm with resolution of 0.00006 in per step. Just work on it here and there so looking at 2-3 months to complete conversion. Appears to be fairly straight forward, especially when compared to the mill conversion.

    Derek, any update as to when you'll be posting latest drawing updates?



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    Well, the DC motor swap did not happen this weekend as expected. After taking a good look behind the lathe and measuring the motor mount, I decided I did not have the necessary supplies to complete the exchange. So, instead of disabling my lathe, I am going to take a short breather to complete a couple of other projects. I have a pretty good idea of how I will mount the DC motor, I just need to pick up some additional angle iron, a few bolts, and then measure the crap out of things so I only have to do this once. I also have a little snag on the key way for the pulley. The DC motor has a smaller key than the AC motor so I need to either make a key or open up the one on the DC motor. As that shaft is smaller, I also need to make a key that it taller which will have an impact on things.

    If anyone has any suggestions, I'm open. I guess I could just make a new cogged pulley to match the one already on the machine and just go with that. That is something I may look at as that would keep things a little simpler in the long run. I have a pulley that I think is the same pitch and close to the same diameter. If that will work, I'm set as I can then do the build without disabling the lathe. If not....?

    Just too many projects and not enough time. I need to take a vacation so I can get some of these done!



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    I'm in the process of converting from the 1 hp AC motor to 1.5 hp 3 ph 240v AC motor. Use with VFD. Shaft on stock motor was 19mm and 7/8" on replacement. I bored stock pulley to 7/8" and cut new 3/16" keyway in pulley. Drilled and tapped shaft with 1/4 x 20 same as on stock motor to hold pulley in place. Another method would have been to drill/tap for set screw over key. Don't know what size your DC motor shaft is (larger or smaller than AC). If larger, bore to size; if smaller make insert to size. You could also just get a new pulley from SDP/SI and bore to size if needed. The pulley appears to be an L Timing Belt Pulley 3/8" pitch, 3/4" wide (or metric equilivent).

    For motor mount conversion I made an L-shaped adapter bracket with milled slots to allow adjustment of position and motor aligment.

    Good luck.



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    Thanks for the info. I was planning on using an angle bracket or something similar. However, the DC motor I have is smaller in diameter than the AC unit and will need to be supported on top and bottom. As I don't weld, I was planning on cutting a couple of angle irons and drill to fit the mount on the lathe. Then use two steel plates and bolt them to the angle iron and drill for the bolts for the motor.

    I was lucky that I had a pulley with the same pitch as the belt on the lathe and had a smaller hole than required for the motor. I bored it out and it fits well. So, it looks like I'm closer than I was earlier but I still have some other projects to work on, so this may not get done as soon as I would like. This is not necessary for me to use the lathe but I like the idea of having variable speeds now that I have it CNCed.

    Since I only have a couple of hours each day to work on things and weekends are busy as well, finding time to change out the motor is a little hard. I'm hoping that I can get out to buy some extra material this week and have the old mount at least measured for holes. That will make things easier as I can make the mount first and then just remove the old motor and mount up the new. As I don't intend on hooking up the E-Stop or other switches at this point, things should go quickly.

    If dgoddard happens to recall the bolt pattern on the old motor, that would be great. It would also be good to know the distance of the motor spindle from the face of the mount. This will let me know the size of the steel plate I will need to offset the motor from the lathe base. Another measurement that would help is the distance of the face of the motor from the first bolts. This will make sure my motor shaft sits out far enough to engage the belts. This will save me a lot of time. If you don't have the measurements, that's fine too. I can manage.

    Thanks for the help.
    Ron



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