80/20 mill build


Page 1 of 9 1234 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 175

Thread: 80/20 mill build

  1. #1
    Gold Member LeeWay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    6618
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0

    Default 80/20 mill build

    It's time I started a build log on this I think.
    I had originally intended to convert an X2 to cnc, but have decided to forgo that and just build one from scratch. This way, I can not only use the mill during the build, but I can build it a little bigger and heavier actually. Heavy? I thought I saw 80/20 in the thread title?
    It's no mistake. I will be using the big 80/20 extrusions. 3060 with is 3" x 6". They are fairly heavy for aluminum. I will add to that as this log progresses. There are several different aspects to this design that have sparked not only controversy in some threads, but my curiosity as well. Firstly the stiffening up or filling of the extrusions with hydraulic cement. Not just filling with cement, but also adding threaded rod as well as small rebar and #8 bird shot that I have been hoarding for years, Really just trying to get rid of it, but I think the extra weight they might provide to the mix will help. The rebar to take up space. The threaded rod to actually tension the cement in each extrusion.

    I intend to use the same mill head that is on the X2, but with some modifications eventually. I know this mill cannot turn out any worse than converting an X2, although that would be much cheaper. I intend to document and weigh all the parts as well so I can get an idea just what the finished machine weighs. Ultimately, it will have a mister and be caged in.

    I have a few pics to show now and more will follow as it progresses. This will take some time. I finished my router in around a month, but I expect this to take longer.

    I have most all the parts needed and will list those out later with photos.

    These pics show why its good to over build sometimes. I originally intended for my router to just cut mostly plastic, but it does a fine job on aluminum as well.

    I don't have a grinder or access to one. The 80/20 extrusions are somewhat flat, but not good enough for this. The absolute flattest thing I have in the shop is my cnc router table. I used a 1/2" carbide end mill to face both big extrusions. I took off about .0075". Then I scraped the fuzz off with a jointer blade in a hand scraper. That left the surface as flat as I'll ever get it. Good enough to start this show at any rate.

    Similar Threads:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 80/20 mill build-8020face2-jpg   80/20 mill build-8020face3-jpg   80/20 mill build-8020face1-jpg  
    Lee


  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1602
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    I really look forward to seeing how you get on as I am hoping to build something pretty similar.

    Best of luck!



  3. #3
    Gold Member LeeWay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    6618
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Thanks Digits.
    Here are a few of the parts I have already. A couple nice ground ball screws for X and Y.
    The Z axis will get this cast iron IKO slide. It's a ready made unit and is pretty heavy itself. It has 9" of travel. I think that will be enough, but since this is going to be mounted to a plate that is also mounted to the 80/20, I should be able to raise it up when needed on the 80/20 column. That part is 24". The base is 25.5".
    I bought a cast iron angle plate on sale from Enco to go on the back of the column. That should help keep the column vertical and in the right spot. I should have bought one with now holes in it. I am having to modify the holes to mount this to the 80/20, but that part of the fun.
    I will work up a drawing showing my intentions soon.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 80/20 mill build-slide4-jpg  
    Lee


  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1602
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    I like the idea of angle plates for fixing the column too - they are stiff as hell and properly square, and IMHO pretty reasonably priced.



  5. #5
    Gold Member LeeWay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    6618
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Here are a couple more pics with some of the parts laid out.
    I have three of these motors. Just the standard 470 oz steppers. I have three of the 201 Gecko's. A lab power supply. I have a 50 caliber ammo box that I want to use for the control box. I want to use these gecko's and the control box on both this mill and a plasma cutter that will come after this build. I have plug in receptacles from Ebay. I should be able to just plug the motors into this box to make it swappable.
    I did buy a few of the 80/20 t-nuts, but that really isn't needed. 5/16-18 carriage bolts fit in there perfectly and will work very well where applicable.

    The small holes in this extrusion accepts 1/4" threaded rod so putting caps on both ends will be easy. I will cap all four ends. The largest cavities in the extrusions line up with the t-slots underneath. I plan on using 2" 5/16-18 bolts in the bottom of the column. I will add some threaded rod connecting nuts there and then run a rod out the top. Then when the filling is dry, I can start to tension the cement using these rods. The coupling nut should put pressure on the cement to tension it. The 1/4" rods will simply hold the caps in place. If I get any resonance, I should be able to adjust the tension to change that.
    Kinda into uncharted waters here. I have no number crunching or degrees to back this.
    I do know when I was forming up the floor pour for an MRI machine, we tensioned the concrete in the way to make the concrete structurally stronger and more resilient. There has to be something to that.
    At any rate, that will be a test and we'll see just how well that works.


    The Y axis bearings are THK HRW27 and the are 18 3/8" long.
    The X axis laying beside are THK HSR25 and are 24" long.
    That's all for now.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 80/20 mill build-millpart1-jpg   80/20 mill build-millpart2-jpg  
    Lee


  6. #6
    Gold Member LeeWay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    6618
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Here is another image that shows a needed tool to align the second rail once the master rail is set. I got this gauge and mag base from Grizzly a few years back when they were on sale. I have seen some at HF, but can't speak to how they work. This one will do what I need. Not a tool maker's instrument, but that isn't where I am aiming for this. If I were, it would all be cast iron.

    I will use 1/4" aluminum plate to cap the bottom of the column since it will also be bolted through the t-tracks. 1/2" plate on the top and both ends of the base. The base will also have 1/4" plate gussets on both sides. The base will of course have steel feet on the sides for anchoring. I have rounded up some stainless steel panels as well for the enclosure.

    It will be going slow for awhile. I'll post more when I can. feel free to leave any comments especially on the filling.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 80/20 mill build-railset1-jpg  
    Lee


  7. #7
    Gold Member LeeWay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    6618
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Just a little more and some observations and questions.

    When buying the ways, I had no real plan as to how to attach them to what would be the saddle. I bought most everything off Ebay and got killer deals on all except the last rail for the HSR25's. I had to get it from THK.
    The bottom wide rails have threaded mounts for the bearings. The top bearings have through holes. I had considered making the X like Arie's build in this forum. With the bearing on top. I was more curious than anything. I'll have t make this the more conventional way with bearings on bottom for the X. It seems that the layout and type of bearings I wound up with will allow me to stack build the table from the bottom up. Screws will go into the bottom bearings through the saddle and down through the top bearings into threaded holes in the saddle. The saddle will be some 1" plate I had left from my router. This should make the distance from base extrusion to the top of the table around 5". That should all go together pretty well.

    The screws I have on all three axes look to be around 1 cm per rev. I haven't measured them yet, and expect a lot of trial and error when setting steps in Mach, but does anyone have any experience with screws designed with such a pitch? I think they are built for speed, but I should be able to get a happy medium with torque/speed relationship. I hope that is.

    Some of this is uncharted design wise. One thing about it is that nothing will be wasted by attempting this build but time an possible two extrusions. I can always sell it as anchors. It should be rather interesting to see how it works. I know I'm already having fun.

    Lee


  8. #8
    Gold Member LeeWay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    6618
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    I did a little research on the screws and they appear to be 15 mm shafts with a 10 mm pitch. Anyone have any experience with these?
    Thanks.

    Lee


  9. #9
    Gold Member LeeWay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    6618
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Here are a couple other items.

    I got a few of these to use so I can unhook the motors when I want. I used trailer wiring plugs on my router and they are fine, but a little difficult to unplug and also don't seat as well as these. They were more costly also.

    This is a signal control center. Is this similar to what a Grex does? I haven't really studied those. They were still in progress when I bought my Gecko's.

    I also got three of these PPP's with the one I bought but these seem to only come with two now. You can still order those separately though.
    I have bought several items from this Ebayer and have always been satisfied.


    Here is the lab power supply I bought.
    I wanted one that was easy plug and play and one that I could use for other things and this one seemed to be okay. I should be able to get 60v @ 10 amps or 30 v @ 20 amps. I am hoping that will do okay for the gecko's.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 80/20 mill build-plugs1-jpg   80/20 mill build-plugs2-jpg   80/20 mill build-scc-jpg   80/20 mill build-ppp-jpg  

    Lee


  10. #10
    Member ger21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Shelby Township
    Posts
    35538
    Downloads
    1
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeWay View Post
    This is a signal control center. Is this similar to what a Grex does?
    No, it looks like it's just a basic breakout board. That's why it's $29 vs the Grex $399

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  11. #11
    Gold Member LeeWay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    6618
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Thanks Gerry. Caused me to go see what a Grex does. I guess it's kinda like comparing a pogo stick with a Ferrari.

    Lee


  12. #12
    Registered txcowdog's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    362
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Are all your screws the same diameter and pitch?



  13. #13
    Gold Member LeeWay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    6618
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    I know for certain that the X and Y screws are the same pitch. I didn't check the Z, but it is very similar if not identical.
    I have some gas struts that I may be able to use on the Z. I have two that are made for a VW hood and two I bought from Surplus Center that are longer that I had intended to use on a truck box. The vedub ones are very stiff and the others are less so.

    I am getting one of the treadmill motors and drivers from Surplus Center to drive the R-8 spindle. I have a die grinder from HF that I want to mount for high speed stuff. I don't expect it to last, but the mount will be easily swapped for a router or a shop made HS spindle later.

    My real concern, which isn't a deal killer, is the torque I might get when hooking the motors up direct drive.

    I have smaller motors, PS a finer ball screw and a Xylotex board on my router and the Gantry on it far outweighs what this mill head will. I am able to get 60 IPM on this with good results. It's a little slow, but accurate.
    Thanks.

    Lee


  14. #14
    Member ger21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Shelby Township
    Posts
    35538
    Downloads
    1
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Why don't you design in a belt reduction if it's a concern?

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  15. #15
    Gold Member LeeWay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    6618
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    I have some belts and gears that I tried on my router. I took them off because of the debris getting under the belt. I cut a lot of lexan with that router and use air to clean the machine between each setup. I did have a cover for the belts too, but using air, the lexan swarf would bounce all around and get into the drive cover. Rather than try to seal the drive box, I chose to revert back to straight drive. Easier maintenance and less complication. I was after more speed with the belts anyway. That didn't happen. I still had about the same speed with reliability as with the direct drive. The gearing was only 2 to 3 ratio. 14 teeth and 21 teeth.

    I may have to put a belt drive on these axes, but I thought most guys did that to keep their torque on the motors while increasing speed. In other words, slowing the motor down and increasing the spin on the screw.

    These screws have a fairly high helix thread and the concern I have really isn't one of speed, but more about the occurrence of back driving. It seems like a higher helix might make that more readily occur. This is why I was wondering if anyone had tried anything with a similar pitch.

    That one test with my drive belt system let me know that f I use something like that again, it will need to be sealed like in a box to keep swarf off the belts. That isn't that hard to do, though.

    I definately will include way covers and motor shields on this one too.

    Lee


  16. #16
    Member ger21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Shelby Township
    Posts
    35538
    Downloads
    1
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeWay View Post
    but I thought most guys did that to keep their torque on the motors while increasing speed. In other words, slowing the motor down and increasing the spin on the screw.
    I think that on milling machines guys use belts to do just the opposite. Get more torque because they don't need the speed. By gearing 2:1, you effectively turn your 10mm pitch screw into a 5mm pitch screw.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  17. #17
    Registered
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    412
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    I've thought about doing this for a while. Ever since Swede did his.

    The filler is a new one, but I I've been checking out some of the polymer granites.

    Anyway, one thing I was wondering about.

    Is there any expansion/contraction on the cement filler. If there is, wouldn't it have been better to mill flat the extrusion after filling.

    This isn't to put a damper on your work. You've obviously made it alot farther than I have on any of my conversions. Just curious.

    G'work.



  18. #18
    Gold Member LeeWay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    6618
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Thanks Guys. You bot bring up good points.
    You are right, Gerry. No need for a bunch of speed on a small mill. In that case with the gears I currently have, the big gear would be on the motor rather than the screw to give a 3 to 2 reduction. The reason I bought gears with this tooth count was I didn't think I needed 2 to 1. How would a fellow figure out an odd ball tooth count? Say something like 12 teeth and 21 teeth?

    The cement that I bought for this is actually hydraulic cement for anchoring. It fast setting as well. It's made by Drylok. I bought two 1 gallon cans at a hardware closeout place here in town.
    I have used this stuff before. It's good stuff. Cement usually will not expand. Concrete actually will shrink, but this stuff is non shrinking. I don't expect any movement in the extrusions. I will check them afterward. If they do move, I'll face them again. The biggest reason I faced them already was so I could start fitting parts. If I have to face it again, the parts will still fit. I have to fly cut all the plates I will be using as well.
    Thanks Guys.

    Lee


  19. #19
    Member ger21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Shelby Township
    Posts
    35538
    Downloads
    1
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    The small gear goes on the motor.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  20. #20
    Gold Member LeeWay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    6618
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    If I'm concerned about back driving of the screw, wouldn't the larger pulley being on the screw give it more torque on the motor to turn? I can see that I'm not completely understanding the concept of how this might work.
    My understanding on back driving was when the tool puts pressure on the axis and makes the screw want to go with that pressure and turn with the flow. The torque of the motor would be what would stop this from occurring. IE holding torque. A geared head stepper might have a real advantage with screws like this. Then again, I may be over thinking it and these 470 motors may work just fine since they will obviously be running very slow with fairly good torque.

    At any rate, it's no mean feat to add different drives setups later if it doesn't work out just as expected. That's the beauty of having the drives completely at the end of the axes rather than tucking then under or built into the back. More room to swap stuff out. The downside is a bigger footprint though.
    Thanks for the help.

    Lee


Page 1 of 9 1234 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


About CNCzone.com

    We are the largest and most active discussion forum for manufacturing industry. The site is 100% free to join and use, so join today!

Follow us on


Our Brands

80/20 mill build

80/20 mill build