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    Default Re: Solid Bench Top Mill Build (warning large photos)







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    Default Re: Solid Bench Top Mill Build (warning large photos)

    Wow, aren't you the lucky one........all that machinery opportunities......are you working for your old man.....LOL.

    I would say that when this machine is finished if you don't get it powdercoated or at least an epoxy two pack it would be a crime as it's looking so good.......it'll last you for ever.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: Solid Bench Top Mill Build (warning large photos)

    How did you square those up? I'm picturing the clamping surface hadn't been surfaced so unless your contact points are the same in both configs, you can't guarantee the milled surfaces will be square?



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    Default Re: Solid Bench Top Mill Build (warning large photos)

    Quote Originally Posted by handlewanker View Post
    Wow, aren't you the lucky one........all that machinery opportunities......are you working for your old man.....LOL.

    I would say that when this machine is finished if you don't get it powdercoated or at least an epoxy two pack it would be a crime as it's looking so good.......it'll last you for ever.
    Ian.
    I wish lol. I managed to convince my boss to let me use my leave in my last two weeks to work on this project. I would have never gotten to the stage Im at other wise.
    Thanks Im not sure what to do with regards to finish. I was thinking powder coat but i keep hearing thats its slightly porous. Either that or two pack like you mentioned but im having a hard time deciding

    Quote Originally Posted by rocketflier View Post
    How did you square those up? I'm picturing the clamping surface hadn't been surfaced so unless your contact points are the same in both configs, you can't guarantee the milled surfaces will be square?
    Same way you would with anything else really. Just a matter of running a dial indicator over it and shimming/tapping it into place. I had it resting on three points to make it easier to adjust and also to try to avoid putting any twist in it.

    The frame is basically all done now




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    Default Re: Solid Bench Top Mill Build (warning large photos)

    Hi.......your boss is worth a bundle.......hope he's on your Xmas card list.

    What's your prospects for machining once you move out.......at home I mean.......do you have a work space or tin shed etc?

    I think a two pack job is very durable and it can be sprayed instead of sticking it in an oven and baking the daylights out of it..........I'm not sure how you'd go about masking the non paint areas off if you want to powder coat it, and powder coat once it's on is like chipping cement off.

    I'll be interested to see what spindle solution you come up with.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: Solid Bench Top Mill Build (warning large photos)

    You build is excellent. The welding you did was excellent, you did a very nice machine. You machine will be very still and should handle steel very well. Great Job.



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    Default Re: Solid Bench Top Mill Build (warning large photos)

    Looking massive, definitely a build headed away from the hobby orbit to the pro one.Displays some excellent skills.Add it to your cv?

    Link for speeds,feed,power etc. Downloadable version not free.

    FSWizard - Free Advanced CNC Speed and Feed Calculator

    But read criticisms in thread below.

    Online CNC Speed-Feed Calculator

    A few thoughts on the z-axis.It is impossible of course to know how it will perform prior to use unless you have fea tools and skills.When I have seen fea on similar builds they always seem to show that the biggest contribution to deflection comes from the z-axis where it hangs unsupported when fully extended.Strengthening this area would make construction more difficult.The options I see are:add some internal u-shaped strengthening bulkheads,if there is room and/or add a back plate(slotted for nut)to change the structure from a channel to a tube/box.The other area I would look at is the z bearing plate,maybe extending the saddle plate and making these squarer and securing with double row of staggered screws.The leverage there to my eye looks not as well supported as elsewhere.

    I did wonder who you got your rails off and if you got them from overseas what the packaging was like.I was considering buying some 15mm hiwins from bstautomation a while back,people seem to say good things about them.But buying 2 metre lengths I wondered how straight they would be on arrival.

    In terms of spindle drive have you considered the bldc type motors seen on the latest generation of x2/x3 mills?Something like these maybe.

    1 Pcs Nema34 Brushless DC Motor Peak Torque 600 oz in with Speed Driver | eBay

    3hp 6000rpm Bldc Motor And Controller For Sieg Milling Machine Spindle Motor - Buy Sewing Machine Motor Controller,Washing Machine Motor Controller,Bldc Motor For Electric Vehicle Product on Alibaba.com

    Hishine seems to make in a range of powers and rpms(1.5-3hp.3600-6000),compact and weight about 9kg.The rotating magnet designs allow the coils to go directly to the case for more efficient cooling.But $$$$$.

    On the issue of the Chinese spindles(Dubbie99).My reading of the forums is only the 2.2kw versions are suitable for metalworking,but steel?They both use the same bearing setup though,judging from specs.You would probably get some good feedback if you started a thread asking if your spindle/machine combination are suitable for steel.Ian and Feist99 would probably be interested in that one as well.



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    Default Re: Solid Bench Top Mill Build (warning large photos)

    Thanks very much. Its definitely on the cv. I have a very important interview tomorrow morning with a rather high profile Nz company so wish me luck!
    Im still not %100 sure in the design of the z axis. The problem I keep coming up against is that to reduce the rigidity i have to increase the overhang which has the opposite effect. The reason the Z is like a channel is that the ball screw has to run in between and bolt to the carriage so im struggling to find ways to improve that aspect.

    Thanks for the motor links. Id been trying to find something like those but could never get the search term right lol. Could you update the alibaba link? It dosnt seem to work.



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    Default Re: Solid Bench Top Mill Build (warning large photos)

    Quote Originally Posted by handlewanker View Post
    Hi.......your boss is worth a bundle.......hope he's on your Xmas card list.

    What's your prospects for machining once you move out.......at home I mean.......do you have a work space or tin shed etc?

    I think a two pack job is very durable and it can be sprayed instead of sticking it in an oven and baking the daylights out of it..........I'm not sure how you'd go about masking the non paint areas off if you want to powder coat it, and powder coat once it's on is like chipping cement off.

    I'll be interested to see what spindle solution you come up with.
    Ian.
    Haha yea I think they must have felt bad for getting rid of me. Theyd just made a dozen workers redundant so there was no way theyd be allowed to sign me up on a new contract. Im leaning towards the two pack finish too. Ill try and source something for next week.

    Im afraid you might be waiting for a while. After next week progress will slow down dramatically and the spindle will be one of the last things I look at
    Quote Originally Posted by CNCMAN172 View Post
    You build is excellent. The welding you did was excellent, you did a very nice machine. You machine will be very still and should handle steel very well. Great Job.
    Thank you sir


    Mmmm shiny





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    Default Re: Solid Bench Top Mill Build (warning large photos)

    Hi...best of luck....been in that boat a few times in the distant past.

    Couldn't get that link on the X2/X3 BLDC motors to show anything apart from doo dads and thingies to make the home brighter etc.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: Solid Bench Top Mill Build (warning large photos)

    Oh to answer your question I have a cheap chinese mill and lathe in the garage. They really arent great but can get some jobs done in a pinch.




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    Default Re: Solid Bench Top Mill Build (warning large photos)

    Btw shedbob the linear rails are hiwin 15 which i got from here
    Shanghai Noulei Automation Equipment Co., Ltd. - Small Orders Online Store, Hot Selling nuts storage,nut red,nuts work and more on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group
    Ive had no problems so far but wont really be able to say till the machine is running. They were really good to deal with as the price included machining to your specs



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    Default Re: Solid Bench Top Mill Build (warning large photos)

    Hi.....you have a garage .....and a mill......and a lathe.......you are truly blessed.

    BTW, that photo with the saddle mounted on the X axis really gives the impression of how solid the whole build is going to be.......is that made from aluminium?...... looks bright and shiny enough.

    One question, and it's only as a matter of interest.........with a build as massive as this and the expectation to mill whatever you can throw at it.......what is the advantage of building to this design......a gantry or bridge type as opposed to a conventional column mill with the same work envelope?

    There are advantage s with a column mill design that a bridge type would fall short on, and one is the travel for the Z axis, which on a column mill is fully supported entity alt the way to the bottom etc.

    This would allow a more massive motor and separate belt driven spindle with a power draw bar design.

    Given the capacity to indulge your ideas as you have, would a column mill have been in the frame as a consideration too or were there other underlying factors that slanted you to the bridge design?

    I've always considered the bridge or router design as inferior in layout to a column mill from the pure rigidity aspect, apart from the router type having a larger work envelope in the X axis direction, which on a column mill has always been a limitation due to the stick out of the head from the column and the torsional twisting effect on the column the further you go up the column.

    Just had a browse in the link you provided for the CNC parts.......pretty comprehensive stuff.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: Solid Bench Top Mill Build (warning large photos)

    Hi, one thing I have decided on and that is to have double ball nuts on the X and Y axis screws.

    This is not the normal double ball nut all in one anti backlash design that normally gets fitted to offset the potential backlash occurrence...... more prevalent in the Y axis as it has to move the whole weight of a heavy table and the feed from the screw too..........as that design costs a lot more and is only good at the beginning and could possibly go slack along the way too same as in a single ball nut......just my opinion.

    What I have in mind is a normal single ball nut with a second ball nut backed up against it, flange to flange, and adjusted with longer fixing screws and Nylock nuts to give an infinitely adjustable anti backlash feature.

    I think using the cheap rolled ball screws and two nuts to a screw will give an adjustable means to keep backlash totally out of the system.

    Mounting the second ball nut is easy as it doesn't require a housing or to be screwed down to the table like the first one, being just a back up nut that takes the slack out of the ball screw.

    Allowance is made to have at least 50mm more screw length to cater for the reduced travel, easily done by shifting the end screw mounting bracket position back 50mm.

    The cost to achieve that is just for a second ball nut.

    In the design I'm working on, the end bearing support housing just gets fitted to the next convenient cross member even if it does mean 100mm more screw length. ......the same applies to the X axis.

    As I'm early into the build the positions of the ball screw support bearings can be designed to have two ball nuts and a longer screw.

    With the Z axis, it will be biased to have constant up pressure against the screw so that there will always be pressure from the nut against the screw at all times, using some form of gas strut etc......I don't anticipate that there will be any significant down pull from the cutter to create a down pull against the gas strut, so backlash cannot occur.
    Ian.



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    Default

    Just quickly does anyone have any experience with por15? Thinking of using it on the mill. Apparently its very durable



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    Default Re: Solid Bench Top Mill Build (warning large photos)

    Por15 is awesome stuff. Surface prep is highly important.



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    Default Re: Solid Bench Top Mill Build (warning large photos)

    Nice stuff, It sticks on rusty metal very well, but you really need to do the metal prep (zinc phosphate coating) on clean metal.
    Also it needs a topcoat if exposed to UV, or it will peel off.



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    Default Re: Solid Bench Top Mill Build (warning large photos)

    Hi, I second the surface prep.....if there's any rust present it has to be got off or it'll absorb moisture and blister whatever you put on........grit blasting needs to be done and then a coating asap or the surface will rust up immediately........UV probably won't be a problem unless it's going to be outside all day

    We're probably looking at the same situation as a car body prep, but without the acute weather protection aspect.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: Solid Bench Top Mill Build (warning large photos)

    Thanks for the input. I sandblasted it with a rather course grit so Im fairly confident it should take well. Hopefully it looks ok tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by handlewanker View Post
    Hi.....you have a garage .....and a mill......and a lathe.......you are truly blessed.

    BTW, that photo with the saddle mounted on the X axis really gives the impression of how solid the whole build is going to be.......is that made from aluminium?...... looks bright and shiny enough.

    One question, and it's only as a matter of interest.........with a build as massive as this and the expectation to mill whatever you can throw at it.......what is the advantage of building to this design......a gantry or bridge type as opposed to a conventional column mill with the same work envelope?

    There are advantage s with a column mill design that a bridge type would fall short on, and one is the travel for the Z axis, which on a column mill is fully supported entity alt the way to the bottom etc.

    This would allow a more massive motor and separate belt driven spindle with a power draw bar design.

    Given the capacity to indulge your ideas as you have, would a column mill have been in the frame as a consideration too or were there other underlying factors that slanted you to the bridge design?

    I've always considered the bridge or router design as inferior in layout to a column mill from the pure rigidity aspect, apart from the router type having a larger work envelope in the X axis direction, which on a column mill has always been a limitation due to the stick out of the head from the column and the torsional twisting effect on the column the further you go up the column.

    Just had a browse in the link you provided for the CNC parts.......pretty comprehensive stuff.
    Ian.
    The saddle is aluminium but it still weighs a tonne lol. It looks even more solid in person, the photos really dont do it justice.
    Im not too sure myself tbh. The 100x100x5 rhs we had at work I thought lent its self to a gantry style better than a column mill. To make a conventional style mill with that material would have been a headache and I tent to think it would have weighed alot more for comparative rigidity. I feel the gantry type is easier to make and the frame is more rigid but you do run into issues with the z axis and then motor weight and spindle like you mentioned. There have been times when ive wished that I had gone with a more conventional style but Im happy with how its looking so fingers crossed it turns out ok. Also I quite like how compact it is compared with something like a tormach. I just hope I can do similar work on this thing.

    With regards to the anti backlash ball nuts great minds think alike. Believe it or not Im planning to do something very similar but using belleville springs for the preload. Ill post more info when i get a chance



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    Default Re: Solid Bench Top Mill Build (warning large photos)

    Hi, I'd be careful about any spring pressure, especially hard ones as this is anticipating slackness in a nut assembly before it happens.

    At all times the springs....whatever.....will be applying pressure to the screw thread which will accelerate wear.

    I think that if the two ball nuts are adjustable axially with just screw pressure and are made to take up any slackness you can have a nut assembly that is at all time without backlash........that is providing the pitch remains fairly constant without areas that go slack as you move along the thread.....not likely to be present in cheap rolled screws.

    Backlash is anything that doesn't happen when the stepper rotates at least one step......that is probably as little as .02mm of travel

    To cater for a rolled thread that has a "variable" pitch characteristic from new or is slightly worn in the middle, I intend to fit small "O" rings between two washers behind the adjusting Nylock nuts of the second ball nut......as the O rings are fairly hard they can hold position and have some resilience for pitch variance but not enough to allow the second nut to push back and go slack when the table direction is reversed........that would only happen under a heavy roughing cut and not when finishing etc.

    I thought about backing the two flanges directly against one another with a big O ring in the middle and rotating the second nut to take up the slack but dismissed it as the screw holes won't line up and it's not infinitely adjustable.

    I've been genning up on BLDC motors in the hope of finding a suitable one....no luck yet.....all those I've seen are for RC plane stuff.
    Ian.



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Solid Bench Top Mill Build (warning large photos)

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