Personal Opinion

[Techmachineman]

I guess no one is allowed to put there own personal opinion unless it is positive. That's what it seems. There were several user opinions and it got deleted. That's not fair to the users. If the product is viewed as many as un helpful, why hide it? I'm sure this will be deleted too. What a joke.

[CNCadmin]

Nothing got deleted- http://www.cnczone.com/forums/vendor_discussion/ and see the rules for this site- http://www.cnczone.com/forums/cnczones_community_policies/ and this one- CNCzone's Policy Toward Free Speech & Commercial Advertisers (5-31-07). The joke is that you think that all in fare in the Internet, and that no one could lie or that all the facts are being stated, for both parties, the fact is the CNCzone is not here to RULE on who is right and who is wrong. We allow all members to express themselves, whether good or bad, BUT everyone has a agenda and it's easy to hide behind the computer keyboard.
Also we have provided a forum for vendor discussion but I GUESSS that you missed that- http://www.cnczone.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=372 so nothing is being hidden.

[Techmachineman]

We know people lie but the fact is, there were about 30 different opinions, not just 1 guys.

Not just Bobcam, I feel every thread should have correct info to be seen by everyone, not just negative or not just positive! Again, thats jmo.

[CNCadmin]

We are often asked by advertisers to remove posts made by members in our discussion forum because the posts are objectionable to the advertiser. One might imagine that the decision to remove a post would be an easy one for a publisher that depends upon its advertisers for revenue. In point of fact that is not the case. Because the issue of censorship is such a complex one, we have created a policy which we believe is fair to both advertisers and members, who desire their words to be heard without interference by commercial interests.

In an area colored mostly in shades of gray, there are certain black and white rules we can apply:

All patently false or defamatory statements will be removed as soon as possible after we become aware of them.
All other posts which are challenged by any party (commercial or not) will be examined to determine whether they make false or defamatory statements. If the posts do not contain such statements, those posts will be permitted, regardless of whether the objecting party believes they are damaging.
In his works defending free speech, Ben Franklin wrote;
"The opinions people have are almost as various as their faces. The job of printers is to allow people to express these differing opinions. There would be very little printed if publishers produced only things that offended nobody. Printers are educated in the belief that when men differ in opinion, both sides ought equally to have the advantage of being heard by the public; and that when Truth and Error have fair play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter. It is unreasonable to imagine that printers approve of everything they print. It is likewise unreasonable what some assert, that printers ought not to print anything but what they approve; since ... an end would thereby be put to free writing, and the world would afterwards have nothing to read but what happened to be the opinions of printers."

As a publisher of other peoples' opinions, we are quite similar to printers in Ben Franklin's day. We also believe that the underlying wisdom in his words provides a sound foundation for our policies. The very fact that we DO NOT interfere with the free expression of our members is what makes CNCzone a desireable place to post such expressions. Without that activity, there would be nobody to which our vendors' advertisements could be directed. The opportunity to present one's products to a large and interested audience comes with the risk that a member of that audience will be dissatisified with the product. Whether right or wrong, that person has a right (on CNCzone) to express their opinion and experiences, provided their account is truthful. Likewise, any party disagreeing with that person has the right to voice their opinions. In the end, we have found that the truth about good products is always "an overmatch" for the negative posts.

The policy we keep is by no means one-sided. To the contrary, it fosters many benefits for commercial advertisers. In our experience, a manufacturer who professionally and politely engages a dissatisfied customer can often turn that customer into a lifelong spokesperson for the company. Moreover, astute manufacturers and retailers often use feedback they find on CNCzone as a barometer of their performance in the market. Before the Internet, vendors had to rely on letters and word of mouth to determine whether their products and services were meeting the mark. Today, the Internet provides a powerful and immediate source of valuable feedback for those willing to listen. It is with these views in mind that CNCzone maintains its policies toward potentially upsetting posts in the forum and looks forward to maintaining its status as the largest online CNC community in the world.

[Techmachineman]

Ok, but how is the info false, that's where I'm grey. The bottom line... This guy bought Bobcam, paid good money for it, wouldn't work on his vista. I can't see him lying about it for no good reason. Simply wanted a refund and he would be happy. Did not get it honored so therefore he came here and posted is opinion. How is that false?

Every PC is different. But obviously his Vista wouldnt run it.

I can't see this guyng buy bobcam just to call back 2 weeks later and try to waggle them for a refund. Makes absoultely no sense.

[CNCadmin]

Well, I have Bobcad and it works on my vista computer....... HERE . Let try a experiment..... go and buy software at your local store open it and than go try to return it and and LET me know how that works for you.... (please note that my comments are not meant to take anyone's sides and I'm not calling anyone a lair )

[widgitmaster]

Keep up the good work Paul!

Widgit

[Techmachineman]

If I spend $2K on software, you can bet it's returnable. Anyone that would spend 2K on NON Returnable software is probablly not in there right head! I would think you would agree too. I would hope so atleast.

[CNCadmin]

Here are a few examples for a software return purchases take right off a few websites-

Software Return Policy
In keeping with software industry standards, we will gladly accept returns of packaged software within 30 days of purchase in an unopened packaging only.

Software purchased on-line through our website is considered opened at the time of purchase.
There are evaluation versions of our software available via download to anyone interested. This allows all prospective buyers to evaluate the product at their leisure to ensure that the software meets their needs before purchasing.


Software: Return unopened software, including all Staples® brand software, that we currently sell for a full refund at any time. We'll gladly exchange opened software for the same title and version.

[CNCadmin]

If I spend $2K on software, you can bet it's returnable. Anyone that would spend 2K on NON Returnable software is probablly not in there right head! I would think you would agree too. I would hope so atleast.

That's way they give you a DEMO before you BUY........It's like buy a car driving it off the lot turning around and trying to return it........

The psychology is called buyers remorse here is a link to the definition- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buyer's_remorse nothing to be ashamed of.

Take note of this line-

"The common condition is brought on by an internal sense of doubt that the correct decision has been made."

[Techmachineman]

Software Return Policy

In keeping with software industry standards, we will gladly accept returns of packaged software within 30 days of purchase in an unopened packaging only. The guy clearly stated it was within 15 days.
Software purchased on-line through our website is considered opened at the time of purchase. He did not purchase online or through website. He spoke to the salesman who offered a money back guarantee which we have heard they do by several other users.

There are evaluation versions of our software available via download to anyone interested. This allows all prospective buyers to evaluate the product at their leisure to ensure that the software meets their needs before purchasing. Yes there are evaluation versions but limited to the fact that you dont know if it will work for you or not. I'm not sure how much you paid for the software or if at all, but 2K is important to most of us. The guy was probably enthused to use Bobcam, unfortunate it didnt work, all he wanted was his money back, thats it. There would have never been that thread, nor this. I'm not really mad about it because I know what its worthy of, I just think as the CNC Admin, you should give a fair opp to all potential users and let all opinions be assessed. If I want to go buy a Mercedes compared to a Lexus, I want too see exactly the pros and cons of both........
__________________

[CNCadmin]

Well that is what makes CNCzone so great you can READ posts and thread about all the different options for CAD/CAM software before you buy and I believe that bobcad as well as other will even do a online demo.... Also if he bought it with a Credit Card he can file a dispute and get his money back.