Beware of BobCad -2

[jhowelb]

I just think that adopting the stance that you want your customer to be satisfied and are willing to go to the wall to that purpose is a better defense. That way an unreasonable customer can't in good conscience continue an attack.

[osphoto]

By not being able to cut my part on a 30 day demo, is exactly why I've NOT made a Bob-cad Purchase. Hint to those 30 day demo offers: If we can't produce a part from the evaluation, how can we truly evaluate your product to test in OUR environment?

I use EMC2, Alibre & AlibreCam. Prior to AlibreCam I was looking for a Cam product. I got to use Meshcam which worked well enough and I found a few bugs that got worked out. I worked with the developer and I'd recommend the product based upon my experience. I just needed more abilities with what I was doing so I didn't make the purchase.

By being able to create and cut my part, I was able to truly evaluate the products in question. And spend my money as I choose to.

I'm new to all this so this has certainly been a learning experience.

I personally don't want to spend hours learning a new Cad/Cam to not being able to fully test the product by not being able to produce the actual part.

My experience with Bobcam was good when I did a partial evaluation with them. What I was looking to do with a part, they weren't able to do because of some bug in their software. Tech support worked with me on that. After which the sales guy I spoke with said, they can (future) fix the bug and I can still make the purchase. I said, fix the bug first and then I'll make the purchase. I've not heard from them since about it.

Since then, I've been using AlibreCam because it comes (finally released!) with my version of Alibre. Its a great starter product and has its issues which are being worked out. And the more I work with that product, I'm feeling the want to upgrade to more cam abilities. In this case VisualMill. Since AlibreCam is based on VisualMill, my learning curve is very little.

In my recent look at upgrading my cam skills and the want for a more robust product, Bob-Cad comes to mind again. Price looks good but again, I'm apprehensive to look at the product, because of the time it takes to learn a new product and not be able to cut my part!

How can you truly evaluate a product if you can't fully use its abilities? As the original post mentioned, one of the issues was hole drilling. The gentleman couldn't have possibly known about this until he produced the actual G-code to produce the part. He said it ran in the simulator just fine.

Any way, its good to have read about others having issues with products. I hope things where worked out in the end.

“Customer being always right”, I don't totally agree.. I think it comes down to how you leave the customer feeling when the conversation stops. Leaving the customer feeling that you care and want to help them and will continue to help them is how you should leave it.

[CNCdude]

Here...Let me know if this "Blows your Mind"...

BobCAD-CAM technical support is geared toward customer service in every sense. Techmachineman, do you own a business? If so, is the customer ALWAYS RIGHT regardless of what the origination is? We make every effort to create 100% satisfied customers. In fact, we take it so seriously that we keep stats on it so that we can improve in areas when needed. Currently every technical support call is logged and investigated weekly to locate areas or special topics that need to be fixed. Once these logs are reviewed, we take action on whatever it is that comes up. It would be a good idea to actually come and visit our facility and meet our technical crew. Maybe even meet me. We're not walking around with "combative" attitudes either. We deal with real shops and real people. Every situation is a new one that is dealt with, with care and understanding that the customer SHOULD be right. And if the customer isn't right in the situation then the purpose becomes to ensure that they BECOME right as well as successful. After all, successful is the goal.

[Techmachineman]

CNC Dude, the most recent post sounds better than the previous. Like I also said, "whether the customer is right or not" , from a companies point of view, that should be the motto that the customer is. Obviously you know the product more than anyone so more times than not, you will be right. However, the customer stated clearly that he has not been able to use on his Vista. Whether or not the software supports vista, I wouldn't really think that he would say false info. I am sure if matters got worked out, his problems were fixed, he'd be a happy camper. Lastly, just in my personal opinion, I wouldnt want someone who I bought a product from being the way bobcam has been. The customer who is one guy probably feels like he was slammed by many guys at bobcam as an individual. He didnt say anything specific about anyone at bobcam to begin with, just that he was told he could get a refund from the salesman which alot of bobcam posts have the same reportive messages. And also that it would work on vista but for him it isnt.

[Khalid]

Here i am putting 1.9098 cents

Ur mouth must work as machine gun...u talk like machine gun...firing the bullets from ur mouth... i saw here everybody more talkative...Salesman mouth shud b a machine gun..
customer have some problem.... start machine gun...fire,fire,fire...go go fire on him...the more u fire on him the more chance of ur success...Ur machine gun shud not empty...oh...custumer come here with complaint...take ur position,....when i say Fire then u fire.... Ready...Fi.... Ohhh...why u fire i didn't said yet....

This is not the scene of any movie...this is reall situation custumer facing... if he get the demo...then also fire him...fire him so much with ur mouth,by phone...in the sense he give u the price of demo...and if he cry in the forums like CNCZONE..then again fire him but now fire him collectively like wolves...

[tjones]

I just don't understand this thread. It is not constructive and is about attacking both companies and individuals.

There does not seem to be anyone ganging up on a customer in this forum by Bobcad employess for sure. Myself, and Toby are not employees of Bobcad and I have not attacted anyone or their good name. Simply stated is that I do not know the facts of this persons complaint. I do know what my experience is and it is nothing like what is described here.

As a whole I have a well functioning program with less errors than software that costs this company 10 times as much. Not to say it can not improve or should not but just keeping it in perspective.

Every computer and machine are different. Every install and personal knowledge of use is different. I would like to see better startup literature and videos myself and I believe the post to that is correct. It would help the beginner get started faster and with less problems.

I also would like to see better posts but with the few thousand requests I can see where the problem comes from. This also was a problem when I first started using 2007.

Simply put the software does well in my case after I spent the time to get it setup correctly. I do not run it on a regular basis on Vista but I do run it on one with only one graphics issue that does not prevent the program from working. (refresh on line at top of cad window) That vista system is a cheap laptop with only Vista basic. It does not have any of the extras as Vista Home premium has and maybe that is a good thing.

A better thread could be, "How did you get Bobcad to work on Vista?". To which I would have to say "I installed it.".

[jhowelb]

Here...Let me know if this "Blows your Mind"...

BobCAD-CAM technical support is geared toward customer service in every sense. Techmachineman, do you own a business? If so, is the customer ALWAYS RIGHT regardless of what the origination is? We make every effort to create 100% satisfied customers. In fact, we take it so seriously that we keep stats on it so that we can improve in areas when needed. Currently every technical support call is logged and investigated weekly to locate areas or special topics that need to be fixed. Once these logs are reviewed, we take action on whatever it is that comes up. It would be a good idea to actually come and visit our facility and meet our technical crew. Maybe even meet me. We're not walking around with "combative" attitudes either. We deal with real shops and real people. Every situation is a new one that is dealt with, with care and understanding that the customer SHOULD be right. And if the customer isn't right in the situation then the purpose becomes to ensure that they BECOME right as well as successful. After all, successful is the goal.

OK now we are getting somewhere, now make a direct offer to personally help him get his system working.

To the customer, WORK with this guy. You may actually get what you wanted in the first place!

[Techmachineman]

Tjones, it is easy to sit back and look at it. If you go to circuit city, spend 3K on a tv and it doesnt work. Would you be a little disgruntled? The fact is, the guy STILL doesn't have a properely working system as guaranteed by the salesmen and there isn't anything handled on his side. So now, you take this tv back to circuit city, they say try this, try this and try this. You go home it doesnt work, but yet you still cant get your money back. You would probably be the same way. From what I have seen here, it seems that CNC Dude works at bobcam, the one works at bobcam, and probally bobcad brad. You and tobyaxis are on the bobcam forum supporting quite a bit. You guys had success, this guy hasnt

[Khalid]

what bout the machine gun

[Khalid]

I will not let this thread ended in a way without responding to MACHINE GUN Issue. Everybody here shud also post on the machine gun

[tjones]

I have not nor do I intend to say that either the customer or Bobcad was right or wrong.

I simply am saying that it works for me. I do not know what occured more than what is being stated here. I work part time as customer support for Jungner CNC grinders and their software in the US. I am trying to be fair in that I have seen both sides of (IT DONT WORK!) argument.

Let me tell you an experience of my own.



I setup a new CNC Tool and Cutter Grinder for a company where the owner works at another job full time and hired a man to run this machine while he was not there.

The trouble being is that this person was never a tool grinder and knew nothing of how to grind or how the software/machine worked.

First day of training went like this.
Show how to setup machine and do maintenance.
Show how to run machine referencing.
Let the operator do these steps.
Review the entire software at a fast pace.
Start by grinding a simple endmill and let the operator try.

After many hours of explaining the correct way an endmill looked, what clearance angles were, what a gash was, etc., the owner came in from his day at the other company.

Guess what! He was ticked off really bad! All he saw was we ground a few tools all day long and no matter how much I explained the situation he called the salesman with this comment "If this @#$^@* machine can't grind more than a few endmills a day then just pack it up and ship it back. I want a full refund!"

Now what the salesman did was smart at this point. He got me on the phone and told me to forget training and start running in production mode (he knew I ran tools for 10 years on these machines prior to this). So what did I do? I made the guy around $500 in the next hour. He was smiling from ear to ear by then and of course was calmed down. I then was able to explain to him that after I leave the operator had to be able to do this himself. The only way was if he had correct training.



Just remember...if you don't know all the facts then it is impossible to judge what was right or wrong. I do phone support and know how hard it is to walk people thorugh even the simplest of tasks. It is hard to have a guy edit his post when he doesn't understand how to left or right click when asked. Not that this is the case because I just do not know.

[Techmachineman]

I completely agree with what you said. Alot of times the end user gets frusterated. There is no argument with that.

With that being said though, a benefit of bobcam would probably be to refund the guy and make him happy. In the end, they should want happy users, not disgruntled users out there. That should be for any business perspective. I am not a business owner, but that is the obvious outlook for any sucessful business.

Secondly it will not work on his vista. Might be settings or the install or who knows, but it wont work.

Again, just as a perspective customer, I wouldnt want too see these kind of reviews about a product. Fortunately, I am happy with what I use. Support isn't the greatest, but with much time invested into using, I get through it pretty quickly.